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Supernatural Ending

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7 minutes ago, 7kstar said:

One Fanfiction long term writer has already undone it 3 different ways.  One involves Jack, one involves the new Death and one is ending before certain seasons started.  So undoing it isn't an issue.  How might be the question when there are way too many options.  I think the hard part would be figuring out which way worked the best.  lol

could u put the links in the fanfic thread for us?

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4 minutes ago, 7kstar said:

One Fanfiction long term writer has already undone it 3 different ways.  One involves Jack, one involves the new Death and one is ending before certain seasons started.  So undoing it isn't an issue.  How might be the question when there are way too many options.  I think the hard part would be figuring out which way worked the best.  lol

Fixing it in fanfic is easier than what could realistically fly on tv and still remain believable.  Then again, Roseanne came back and first, discarded an entire season and then forgot the existence of two children. And it's 4 seasons in. 

But yeah, I've seen a lot of examples that would work. The only reboot that 100% not work for me is one without Dean/Jensen. 

 

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The rebar... it should not be in a barn. Clue that something is wrong.

Or they could roll back to Ouroboros. DEAN has been I side guys head all of this time .... either still in the coma or the gorgon head knock let Michael take over 

So many ways to undo the Badd writing 

 

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45 minutes ago, 7kstar said:

One Fanfiction long term writer has already undone it 3 different ways.  One involves Jack, one involves the new Death and one is ending before certain seasons started.  So undoing it isn't an issue.  How might be the question when there are way too many options.  I think the hard part would be figuring out which way worked the best.  lol

Which author? I’m having fun w fix it fics!

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3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

In the first episode (WIAWSNB) the Djinn was trying to keep Dean in what he thought was a good world for him so he wouldn't fight it. But in Exile on Mainstreet, they were kind of assholes, making him see Yellow Eyes and such. So I guess there isn't one answer.

I’m actually watching WIAWSNB right now, interestingly enough. It’s not really that great of an existence for Dean when you think about it...he’s the black sheep, a disappointment to his family in a lot of ways. He and Sam are barely talking in that world. The djinn maybe didn’t realize that the world he created wouldn’t work for Dean in the long run. 
 

ETA I guess it was one wish granted (Mary lived) and from that their lives changed and went on like “normal”. But with Dean retaining his memories of the real world, he would never choose to stay in dream world. 

Edited by Binns

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5 hours ago, tessathereaper said:

Yeah honestly it wouldn't be THAT hard.

Djinn would actually be perfect.  They make the world feel very "real".

Or...Rowena gave each of them one of her magic "resurrection" spells when she learned they were going up against Chuck, without telling them**.  (After all, one brought her back when she was fried to a Krispy Kritter, and Ketch after he'd been shot in the head.)  So...maybe Dean shows up with a "hiya, Sammy," after the hunter's funeral.  And now, she can keep replacing them as they use them, until they decide they're ready to go, and then either remove the last one or not replace it.  Sam can have his dying in bed scene, and Dean can go in a blaze of glory or when he gets too old to hunt and doesn't want to settle down.  But they get to choose when.  😊

 

**ETA: Yes, I know they're supposed to be "inserted" somewhere in the body.  But hey, this is Rowena.  Surely she can figure a way around that (or to get it done).

But, TBH, there's no reason why we have to stick to a randomly-inserted canon explanation that made no sense at the time.  This way, at least we can get some use out of it!

Edited by ahrtee

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It really doesn't have to be any more complicated than Dean wasn't actually dead. Every thing that happened after he got impaled could be easily explained away with a few lines of dialogue and they are back in business.  

I'd actually prefer this to any kind of resurrection,  so Dean doesn't have to feel guilty for anything, since that always comes with a price tag. 

Edited by gonzosgirrl
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3 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It really doesn't have to be any more complicated than Dean wasn't actually dead. Every thing that happened after he got impaled could be easily explained away with a few lines of dialogue and they are back in business.  

I'd actually prefer this to any kind of resurrection,  so Dean doesn't have to feel guilty for anything, since that always comes with a price tag. 

IDK.  That was a pretty definitive death scene, not to mention the pyre and mopey Sam for years.  It would take a lot of 'splainers (hopefully, if we want any reboot to be logical rather than writers just pulling things from their asses like the current crop do.)  

A gift from Rowena shouldn't come with a price tag or make Dean feel guilty. *shrug* Just another thought.

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4 hours ago, Binns said:

I’m actually watching WIAWSNB right now, interestingly enough. It’s not really that great of an existence for Dean when you think about it...he’s the black sheep, a disappointment to his family in a lot of ways. He and Sam are barely talking in that world. The djinn maybe didn’t realize that the world he created wouldn’t work for Dean in the long run. 
 

ETA I guess it was one wish granted (Mary lived) and from that their lives changed and went on like “normal”. But with Dean retaining his memories of the real world, he would never choose to stay in dream world. 

I don't think it went "normal". Why would Dean naturally be the loser in a normal life? That is a ridiculous notion to me. And Sam naturally be the wonderboy always and ever? What Gary Stu shield is he supposed to have? It was just the only way Dean could imagine that because he puts himself down some more.

Edited by Aeryn13
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Just now, Aeryn13 said:

I don't think it went "normal". Why would Dean naturally be the loser in a normal life? That isa ridiculous notion to me. And Sam naturally be the wonderboy always and ever? What Gary Stu shield is he supposed to have? It was just the only way Dean could imagine that because he puts himself down some more.

Yeah it was that way in Dean's head because his self worth was literally so low even his DREAM word wasn't anything that great for him, it was his mother being  happy and Sam being happy.  Which is yet another reason why he deserved to live - all those things he thought he didn't deserve, he finally had the chance to try.

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Anyway, I mean who is to say it's all in Dean's head?  Maybe SAM can be the one whose head it's all in.

In fact it might work better that way, if it's actually Sam's coma dream or Djinn dream(then the Sam pimping and making everything about Sam makes sense).  Plus it would neatly get rid of Sam's "normal" life with no guilt involved for anyone because it never existed anyway.

Sam gets knocked out in the episode, at that point Dean is on his own blah blah gets impaled - that's from Sam's injury.  In reality Dean managed to defeat the vampires and Sam's taken to a hospital, he's in the coma for however long, finally wakes up and we can have our movie or mini-series. 🙂

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7 hours ago, ahrtee said:

IDK.  That was a pretty definitive death scene, not to mention the pyre and mopey Sam for years.  It would take a lot of 'splainers (hopefully, if we want any reboot to be logical rather than writers just pulling things from their asses like the current crop do.)  

A gift from Rowena shouldn't come with a price tag or make Dean feel guilty. *shrug* Just another thought.

It was definitive in Dean's head. How many stories are there about people being outside their bodies, experiencing seeing loved ones, etc., only to be revived? I think it would be in character for Dean to comfort himself with the idea that Sam has a good life after he's gone, And the lack of pretty much anyone else except Sam and another Dean in those visions supports it.

Just saying, it's at least as believable as anything else that's happened on this show, and wouldn't require jumping through too many hoops.

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46 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It was definitive in Dean's head. How many stories are there about people being outside their bodies, experiencing seeing loved ones, etc., only to be revived? I think it would be in character for Dean to comfort himself with the idea that Sam has a good life after he's gone, And the lack of pretty much anyone else except Sam and another Dean in those visions supports it.

Just saying, it's at least as believable as anything else that's happened on this show, and wouldn't require jumping through too many hoops.

There are all kinds of reset/do overs that writers (good OR bad) can come up with, from the very simple ("it was all a dream") to the complicated (time travel/angelic, demonic or magical intervention/any combination).  I was just tossing out one more, since everyone seemed to be coming up with different possibilities.☺️ 

But, of course, it doesn't matter what any of us think would be the best plan, except as fanfic ideas.  So let's get writing, folks!

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22 hours ago, 7kstar said:

One Fanfiction long term writer has already undone it 3 different ways.  One involves Jack, one involves the new Death and one is ending before certain seasons started.  So undoing it isn't an issue.  How might be the question when there are way too many options.  I think the hard part would be figuring out which way worked the best.  lol

Do share the author - it sounds like a great read.

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1 hour ago, FlickChick said:

Do share the author - it sounds like a great read.

It's been shared in fanfic thread and go up in this thread it's there too. 

I will add that it was that fanfic writer that got me into Supernatural.  I loved her love for the show so I checked it out.  It was at the end of season 3.  So for me it was a bookend to the series, if she started my love for Dean Winchester and the brothers then it was fitting for her to wrap it up for me.  🙂

Edited by 7kstar
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1 hour ago, Pondlass1 said:

 

Wow.

That was just so sad to me.

Clearly he was "talked in" to "liking" the finale and simply(and as usual) did his best to make it work.

God Bless him.

He really is the Ultimate Professional where it concerns his craft. 

I'm just so happy and relieved, though, that he and Danneel have decided to form their own production company after the way everything went down at the end of Supernatural. 

And I kind of hope that he's not totally trusting Kripke, at this point, and FWIW, because AFAIC,  it was Jensen's instinct that was right on in this case and it had very little to do with him being "too close" to his character. 

If anything, and again, AFAIC, that closeness with his character(a character that he gave life to, and sorry, far more than even Kripke did) was what made that endind sit so wrong with him in the first place.

And no one is ever going to convince me that he truly "loved" that ending.

No one-not even videos of he, himself,  saying that-not ever.

He said his genuine truth about it all here in this video, IMO and AFAIC-and again it was often what he didn't say about it, that added the most weight to what he did say about it.

And it just left me feeling sad for him and for many in the fandom-and not sad in a good way, but sad in the way of, once again, the tremendous amount of unfulfilled potential from the writers/showrunners of this show-especially since s11, but even going back as far as S4. 😔

 

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I wonder if he was slightly less unhappy with the COVID-altered ending? Maybe it wasn't his death was first, that he was so against, but more against the lack of time to live, and the weird crowded Heaven story?

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1 hour ago, MAK said:

I wonder if he was slightly less unhappy with the COVID-altered ending? Maybe it wasn't his death was first, that he was so against, but more against the lack of time to live, and the weird crowded Heaven story?

From what I heard, the changed ending is even worse. Because with Dean aimlessly driving around in heaven, it looks even more like he has nothing going in, other than pathetically waiting around for Sam.

Other than that, the lackluster ending-by-rebar, the pathetic last words and the lack of legacy is exactly the same. I think Jensen in general would have prefered, if death had to happen, than one with a lot more of an oomph.   

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I don't think JA was happy with *how* Dean died. But I meant he might have been ok with the car ride in Heaven as opposed to an extended cast party in the Roadhouse.

I base this opinion on what JA said at the Jacksonville Con in 2016. 

In response to a question about what Sam and Dean's Heaven would be after everything that's happened (halfway through S11), JA answers -- "A long highway, peppered with roadhouses, and some Patrick Swayze." JP answers (not exact quote) -- Sam is sitting shotgun riding with his brother, reading, doing research.

Sounds a lot like his drive waiting for Sam in the finale.

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11 minutes ago, MAK said:

I don't think JA was happy with *how* Dean died. But I meant he might have been ok with the car ride in Heaven as opposed to an extended cast party in the Roadhouse.

I base this opinion on what JA said at the Jacksonville Con in 2016. 

In response to a question about what Sam and Dean's Heaven would be after everything that's happened (halfway through S11), JA answers -- "A long highway, peppered with roadhouses, and some Patrick Swayze." JP answers (not exact quote) -- Sam is sitting shotgun riding with his brother, reading, doing research.

Sounds a lot like his drive waiting for Sam in the finale.

But that is a specific scenario where both are already dead and maybe died together. Whenever that was.

The ending we got specifically curtailed Dean's time while you could still fill in adventures for Sam, no matter what the montage showed. Also Sam had a life and a family. When THEY get to heaven, is Dean - who has nothing going on beyond Sam as the episode hammer home - to be kicked to the wayside or put in a corner then? 

All the implications for Dean are just lackluster and ugly. A big roadhouse party at least would have given him something beyond just Sam since Sam had a lot beyond Dean.

I remember Jensen once said he wanted Dean to have a good legacy. Well in Dabb's ending he has NO legacy. I think that is something Jensen didn't care for.

Edited by Aeryn13
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20 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

But that is a specific scenario where both are already dead and maybe died together. Whenever that was.

The ending we got specifically curtailed Dean's time while you could still fill in adventures for Sam, no matter what the montage showed. Also Sam had a life and a family. When THEY get to heaven, is Dean - who has nothing going on beyond Sam as the episode hammer home - to be kicked to the wayside or put in a corner then? 

All the implications for Dean are just lackierter and ugly.

I remember Jensen once said he wanted Dean to have a good legacy. Well in Dabb's ending he has NO legacy. I think that is something Jensen didn't care for.

In reading Drabb's description of the changes to the finale, there's an even more bleak possibility for Dean's already wretched end. Some fans are suggesting - and I think they're right - that the heaven scenes would only have been shown when Sam finally died, after grieving a little and then having a FF life, etc., etc. Drabb's description of the finale that wasn't makes it clear that the big party in a crowded Roadhouse with Kansas playing would only happen in SAM & Dean's heaven, not Dean's heaven. He doesn't say crap about what would happen after Dean died - not until Sam shows up.

What if not only does Drabb kick Dean to the curb and insures his least favorite character in the entire universe has no life and no legacy, but that his original intention was after Dean died the audience never sees him again until the time comes that Samantha graces heaven with his presence in the final couple of minutes. That would mean Dean dies barely halfway into the episode, and then that's it for Dean and his fans. Turn off the episode and tune back in the last maybe two minutes if you care to see Dean again.

It would explain why less than zero thought was put into Dean's heaven, and why it was clearly nothing more than one-dimensional filler. I mean, even Wanek put no effort into the Roadhouse set because it wasn't needed anymore without the party aspect. Frankly I don't know why they even bothered with that set.

But, hey, at least Dean got a teeny tiny bit of filler in the finale. In the original script, it's highly likely he didn't even get that.

I know Jensen is trying to make the best of a situation he had no control over, but remember in the last Creation panel he still talked about Jack eventually bringing the guys back. Apparently he said the same thing in his M&G. In other words, Jensen continues to make it clear that he doesn't see that end as permanent. Why would he want to?

Edited by PAForrest
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On 3/22/2021 at 12:00 PM, PAForrest said:

I know Jensen is trying to make the best of a situation he had no control over, but remember in the last Creation panel he still talked about Jack eventually bringing the guys back. Apparently he said the same thing in his M&G. In other words, Jensen continues to make it clear that he doesn't see that end as permanent. Why would he want to?

What I look at is Jensen's body language.  He's not happy and honestly he isn't really faking it that well.  You can tell he is just going through the motions.  Jared is all bubbly.  The fact that he was the lone wolf, he couldn't really do much but try to make the best of a bad ending. 

I hope he will give it a rest and focus on something else for a bit.  Then perhaps when he has the power to create something he's excited about, he could get the gang back together.  But he needs to have the clout to get the writers that will support his vision.

  The ending isn't permanent and his reaction makes it clear that he isn't supporting it as permanent.  He makes it clear with the vampire story that he thinks how he died was dumb.  I would rather see him in projects where he is supported than just phoning it in to make some fans happy.  He's too good to just be Dean Winchester, even though I love his character.

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We just finished the finale, and honestly I liked it.  Going out on a case - w/no plot armor from Chuck - is EXACTLY what Dean has always wanted.  
 

The only few things I would’ve wished for is a longer defined time period between Chuck’s defeat & Dean’s death, Miracle joining him in Heaven, and meeting Cas.  Yes, it would’ve been nice to see all the others they’ve lost, but FF can correct COVID’s screw up.

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4 minutes ago, roamyn said:

We just finished the finale, and honestly I liked it.  Going out on a case - w/no plot armor from Chuck - is EXACTLY what Dean has always wanted.  
 

The only few things I would’ve wished for is a longer defined time period between Chuck’s defeat & Dean’s death, Miracle joining him in Heaven, and meeting Cas.  Yes, it would’ve been nice to see all the others they’ve lost, but FF can correct COVID’s screw up.

Or, you know, a good word about Dean, or expression of sadness about his death from, say... anyone.

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Jack’s heaven would’ve just messed him up. Yikes what a life sentence for a true alpha male!

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ohjoy

Please use this topic to discussion about your general speculation and thoughts on the upcoming end of the series only. Keep long discussions on other topics (overall show history, media/social media updates, Bitch vs. Jerk, etc.) to the appropriate other topic, as usual. Thank you.

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