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Supernatural Ending

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So, TV Line are now reporting that Dabb is saying “The ending is an ending. It’s not a ‘to be continued.'” The mixed messages coming out are painful and annoying, but we've come to expect that I s'pose.

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3 hours ago, ukgirl71 said:

So, TV Line are now reporting that Dabb is saying “The ending is an ending. It’s not a ‘to be continued.'” The mixed messages coming out are painful and annoying, but we've come to expect that I s'pose.

I think he said that before. That has remained consistent.

He did say the "path to it" has changed but the final moments of the show has remained from what it was when they pitched it to the Js.

That clarifies something I wondered: did they pitch them the final episode as an entire plot or just how it actually ends. Apparently, it is the latter. And the plot to get there has already changed. 

My thoughts? A lollipop world montage and a reunion in the afterlife for the brothers. That is the finsl 2 minutes and that will remain. 

The actual resolution of how they defeat or reform or whatnot Chuck and who does what? Still in flux. Now obviously my theory posits one brother - Dean - dying. But that would come about is not yet nailed down.

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I am still puzzled by the strong implications, notably from Jensen if memory serves, that a follow up somewhere down the road is possible, hence my frustration at Dabb's comments.  Time will, of course, tell.

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10 minutes ago, ukgirl71 said:

I am still puzzled by the strong implications, notably from Jensen if memory serves, that a follow up somewhere down the road is possible, hence my frustration at Dabb's comments.  Time will, of course, tell.

Dabb always said it was final. And that if it was to be continued, it would be someone else's problem. Jensen only said to never say never and he would be open to it if it ever came to it. Not that it would ever happen. I personally don't see it and have never considered a continuation a real possibility.

But really, Dabb's ending could be the most conclusive ending in the history of storytelling and, in a show like Supernatural, any two-bit hack could undo it within five minutes. Nothing, absolutely nothing would and could ever be finite. If you erased the Winchesters from history, blew up their world and make hunting non-existant? Pfft. I could undo all that in a prologue.

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I think that Jensen is concerned about what the fandom reaction is going to be to the ending that Dabb has planned. 

He knows the fandom and how attached they are to the characters and if either or both brothers die, or if something happens that might seem ooc for either brother, he wants it to be remembered that, as Aeryn said, the show is a work of fiction and in any work of fiction-especially this show with a supernatural theme-anything can be changed or redone because anything is possible in a fictional world; and again, especially in the fictional world of Supernatural.

I think he is most worried about an over-reaction to the ending of this story set in this fictional world from a fandom that has so very often shown  and stated how very real these characters seem to be to them(the fandom).

Edited by Myrelle · Reason: Additions
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10 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I think that Jensen is concerned about what the fandom reaction is going to be to the ending that Dabb has planned. 

He knows the fandom and how attached they are to the characters and if either or both brothers die, or if something happens that might seem ooc for either brother, he wants it to be remembered that, as Aeryn said, the show is a work of fiction and in any work of fiction-especially this show with a supernatural theme-anything can be changed or redone because anything is possible in a fictional world; and again, especially in the fictional world of Supernatural.

I think he is most worried about an over-reaction to the ending of this story set in this fictional world from a fandom that has so very often shown  and stated how very real these characters seem to be to them(the fandom).

I think an ending where either Lollipop world happened or one brother died while the other settled down and they just had a reunion in the afterlife or both happening would not sit well with most fandom.

The Vampire Diaries ending did face some scorn and scrutiny for killing of a main character and going with one ship over another etc. Even though they also tried to tie it up in a neat little bow where everyone got one moment. One moment is simply not enough in some cases. IMO Jensen knows that. Dabb either doesn't or doesn't care.

The recent Arrow Finale faced a tad less scrutiny but even there were quite a few unhappy voices who were hoping for a happier ending.

I fully expect the SPN ending to be supposed to be bittersweet. In theory. How well they pull of the actual balance between bitter and sweet? Probably not well. Yet that balance is absolutely crucial. Jensen knows what overall appeals to fandom and he could probably at least get an inkling how other Series Finales have been received. I mean, Game of Thrones last year?

As an actor that would get me thinking along the lines of "oh boy, I hope fans won't hate our ending this much". That is what I think he expressed. For people to posiibly mull it over. Honestly, I don't believe that will happen. People will either have a visceral emotional reaction in one or the other direction. And that will stick for the most part.

How I met your mother was all set to get a spin-off - until their Series Finale aired, burned down the internet and then it was bye-bye spin-off. Of the four sequel shows to GOT that were in talks, how many will go in production now? One? None?

A bad ending can absolutely sour a show in viewer's minds. I don't even think Jensen hated it specifically for Dean's ending but for the overall show. Jared once said he thinks everyone who see the "being done" part like him would like it. For him lollipop world and/or domestic Sam might be the logical conclusion to the journey. I'm just not sure he has a lot of backers for that particular wish.

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I have a feeling that Dabb's plan is to make sure that expectations for the series finale are so low that when it's finally over fans will hopefully say "Eh...it wasn't that horrible".

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27 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

I have a feeling that Dabb's plan is to make sure that expectations for the series finale are so low that when it's finally over fans will hopefully say "Eh...it wasn't that horrible".

My fear is that he wants to burn it all down to the ground so badly that, like those shows Aeryn mentioned, any kind of a spin-off or furthering of the story through a movie, would not receive the necessary backing in order for it to happen.

I wonder if we'll ever get more on what's presently happening BTS of this show.

Clearly the network was not ready to end it. Not with the news that renewals for s16 and 17 were already in place.

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4 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

As an actor that would get me thinking along the lines of "oh boy, I hope fans won't hate our ending this much". That is what I think he expressed. For people to possibly mull it over. Honestly, I don't believe that will happen. People will either have a visceral emotional reaction in one or the other direction. And that will stick for the most part.

How I met your mother was all set to get a spin-off - until their Series Finale aired, burned down the internet and then it was bye-bye spin-off. Of the four sequel shows to GOT that were in talks, how many will go in production now? One? None?

A bad ending can absolutely sour a show in viewer's minds. I don't even think Jensen hated it specifically for Dean's ending but for the overall show. Jared once said he thinks everyone who see the "being done" part like him would like it. For him lollipop world and/or domestic Sam might be the logical conclusion to the journey. I'm just not sure he has a lot of backers for that particular wish.

Visceral reaction is the bottom line, and a negative reaction rarely if ever leads to a happy-happy-joy-joy reaction later - and Jensen is smart enough to know that. If there's a change, it's usually in the opposite direction as I saw after the season five finale - fans, especially Dean fans, who desperately wanted to think it was a better episode than it was later came to the conclusion they hated it.

And your average viewer - who outnumber the fan base by untold numbers - will not put in any effort into changing their opinion. They'll see it, they'll feel what they feel, and move on. However, when it comes to syndication, that's where those knee-jerk opinions over a bad finale can royally screw things up if viewers feel turned off enough that they don't want to invest anymore time into syndication. HIMYM is one of the most extreme examples, as is too GoT. Of the four spin-offs, their number was whittled down to one after the finale backlash.

I find I have a hard to impossible time watching the show in syndication now, because what came before Dabbernatural is such a different animal, what with all the previous canon trashing and episode-episode water pistols, that we are looking at two entirely different shows. And for me to care about what came before, I have to decide where that first show ends - and nothing truly feels like a satisfactory ending for Supernatural the Original.

I don't know what Dabb and Singer are going to do - there are really only a few options, none of them great. All I know for sure is that he's openly scorching the earth, and his pronouncement that he's planned it so nothing can come after sounds like a whole lot of bitter and no sweet at all. In other words, sounds like Dabb.

Edited by PAForrest · Reason: addition
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There have been fans that literally rewrote the ending of series.  I think for me it would be ignore the BMoL and start with Mary showing up.  Create some different reactions and you could still have the boys finding out Mary wasn't a saint.  She enjoyed being independent but also trying to figure out how to have a relationship with her grown sons that grew up in the life she never wanted them to know about.  End it on the shot of the boys slamming the trunk saying we've got work to do.  I would rather that than most likely anything that Dabb will do.

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3 hours ago, Myrelle said:

My fear is that he wants to burn it all down to the ground so badly that, like those shows Aeryn mentioned, any kind of a spin-off or furthering of the story through a movie, would not receive the necessary backing in order for it to happen.

I wonder if we'll ever get more on what's presently happening BTS of this show.

Clearly the network was not ready to end it. Not with the news that renewals for s16 and 17 were already in place.

Dean was in a coma in Ouroboros. They can always backtrack to that and say everything after that was in his head. 

It is fixable.

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4 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

Dean was in a coma in Ouroboros. They can always backtrack to that and say everything after that was in his head. 

It is fixable.

The problem is that pissant Dabb doesn't want to fix it. He doesn't even want it to be good enough to fix - just scraps of the original story. Or better yet, the dog even ate the scraps. What an ass.

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18 hours ago, 7kstar said:

There have been fans that literally rewrote the ending of series. 

Yeah, but that's fan fiction, it's not canon. Granted, it feels like there is no canon anymore, and what was canon is being treated like crap, or as if it never existed at all.

Still, when I think back on this show, I have to cling to something that aired on screen, and that's where it's hard to find a definitive Supernatural (not Dabbernatural) ending. The closest, I guess, would be the season 11 finale, minus the the very last scene. Or trying to forget the vile narcissistic creature Mary became after her appearance in front of Dean and ending it all at that moment, the reveal of her return. The End.

It's not perfect, it's not truly satisfying - and that's the problem. But at least it's somewhere vaguely in the realm of the legit Supernatural universe, before the series went completely off the rails and became Dabb's toys that he enjoys setting fire to in the backyard.

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17 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

Yeah, but that's fan fiction, it's not canon. Granted, it feels like there is no canon anymore, and what was canon is being treated like crap, or as if it never existed at all.

Still, when I think back on this show, I have to cling to something that aired on screen, and that's where it's hard to find a definitive Supernatural (not Dabbernatural) ending. The closest, I guess, would be the season 11 finale, minus the the very last scene. Or trying to forget the vile narcissistic creature Mary became after her appearance in front of Dean and ending it all at that moment, the reveal of her return. The End.

It's not perfect, it's not truly satisfying - and that's the problem. But at least it's somewhere vaguely in the realm of the legit Supernatural universe, before the series went completely off the rails and became Dabb's toys that he enjoys setting fire to in the backyard.

It's either the Season 11 Finale or, weirdly enough, the Season 1 Finale. Yes, that ended on a huge cliffhanger but it could work. Though that would count out a lot of legit good episodes as well. So probably Season 11. Which I agree is not that satisfying as a Series ending. But likely much better than what Dabb will do.

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Or, hear me out: season 8 finale... also very far from perfect but leave out the angels falling or the part where the trial juice was killing Sam anyway. They came, they saw, they did the trials, they made their choice - & end on the “we got work to do” vibe 

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For me its season 11.

Dean saved the world with his heart an his compassion.  Since he gave Amara what she wanted so she gave him what he wanted.  When he got back to the bunker Benny was waiting for him.  Dean left Sam a note saying 'gone hunting" threw the shot gun in the trunk and told Benny "we got work to do."

That was exactly the way it happened. 

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12 minutes ago, PinkChicken said:

Or, hear me out: season 8 finale... also very far from perfect but leave out the angels falling or the part where the trial juice was killing Sam anyway. They came, they saw, they did the trials, they made their choice - & end on the “we got work to do” vibe 

I kind of loathed the Season 8 Finale, just like the entire back half of Season 8 and that abominable trials story so that is not gonna work for me.

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24 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I kind of loathed the Season 8 Finale, just like the entire back half of Season 8 and that abominable trials story so that is not gonna work for me.

Hahaha Like Deans speech to Mary in s12 I think season 8 brought it together in the end & did enough to bring it round that I don’t hate it, tho personally its still 11 for me.
But I’d forgive a lot for a more open ended ending as far as the world is concerned. 

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33 minutes ago, PinkChicken said:

Hahaha Like Deans speech to Mary in s12 I think season 8 brought it together in the end & did enough to bring it round that I don’t hate it, tho personally its still 11 for me.
But I’d forgive a lot for a more open ended ending as far as the world is concerned. 

Heh, neither Season 8 nor Season 12 did the slightest thing for me with their respective Finales. The speech to Mary was just about worthless in context of how it was all framed.

If open-ended, I think Season 2 could work as an ending.

In general, I have nothing against a definitive ending and if that was the only worry about the Series Finale from Dabb, I wouldn`t have a problem with it. It`s just how I envision Dabb is gonna end it all, that will be the problem. And you know, he would eff it up if it was a closed ending, an open ending, a cliffhanger or anything in between. He is a hack no matter what. 

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This is out there...

What if they go the "Dallas" route and erase a big chunk of what we"ve scene with it was all a dresm... Bear with me as I flesh this out.

This hypothesis explains why Amara would possess Sam. Why everything is off and flat. Why Dean seems like a spectator.  The emphasis on fate, writing and books, Why there is such an emphasis on being controlled, losing controlled and being operated like a puppet  The emphasis on Super Monsters. The retirement dream of owning a bar. Everybody dying. Jack coming back only he is behaving exactly how he was before when Dean had to put him down. Cas betraying Dean and Dean being unable to trust him. Purgatory being Empty, Dean literally sleeping, A super compliant Michael. Benny being dead and Eve running it... none of that made sense.

All of these things together... they make me think that maybe just maybe Dean was never freed in Nihilism and/or he is still in the coma. Michael wanted Chuck dead. Michael was obsessed with Chuck's stories. Michael wanted to destroy this world with his super Monster Apocalypse. We are seeing Chuck's stories, themes of bodily control and super Monsters come up a lot. Dean in particular seems irate about the bodily control issues.

So ... is it possible we are seeing a season + in Dean's head.

I know it's crazy. I just think it's strange that the future Chuck showed Sam involved super monsters... it got me thinking...

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Jared is satisfied, Jensen had to be talked into it. That’s concerning.

It doesn’t matter if they die or not because death means nothing now. But a future Supernatural project is very likely I’d think.

So let’s hope that by the final episode that heaven is sorted and Chuck has gone away, because I don’t want any future movie to be about them!

 

 

 

 

 

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For whatever it's worth, I don't think there will be a future project - movie, mini-series. I think that once you close the book on 15 seasons, people move on to other projects; time passes and it becomes too difficult to put together. I would hope that if they chose to do something, it wouldn't turn out like the second "X-Files" movie. That should never have been made and IMO was an embarrassment to the series and its leads.

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You make good points.  Although I sense the Js are genuine when they say they’re keen, the logistics of pulling it all together could be difficult.

But I think it would be great to see the Winchesters’ adventures outside the tight confines of a TV series.

Edited by Pondlass1
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So what if the way the  series ends is that instead of Chuck disappearing (Swan Song) it's the Winchesters that disappear.  Jack fixes the world so Chucks creation doesn't need those two characters anymore.

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12 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

So what if the way the  series ends is that instead of Chuck disappearing (Swan Song) it's the Winchesters that disappear.  Jack fixes the world so Chucks creation doesn't need those two characters anymore.

That would be a twist for sure. I don't know if that's something Jensen wouldn't like - I'm always trying to think of why Jensen didn't like the ending. Having the Winchesters wiped off the board entirely, as if they never existed, could be a reason.

Though wouldn't that still leave Chuckles to create havoc in other ways? If he's still around, he can still do damage.

ETA: But reading your description again, that would be a quintessential petty Dabb move - announce to the universe that the Winchesters aren't unnecessary. After all, isn't that what he's been trying to sell all along? Yes, Jensen would despise that. He wouldn't be the only one either.

Edited by PAForrest · Reason: addition
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After watching Galaxy Brain:  instead of filming the last two episodes whenever they get the chance to, instead they can eliminate the last two minutes of ep. 18 (or whatever has been already filmed) and instead, show Chuck in the background smirking, then snapping his fingers and we see a huge asteroid heading straight to camera and getting bigger....

 

 

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Might be a little too dark but they could show chuck snapping his fingers and then just a montage of the actual news 😕

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I was reading an article from the show runners of Prodigal Son.  They had an ending in mind right from the start of the season, and they ended up shooting the finale out of order.  Then they went back to their normal schedule.  So when it became clear that the virus was going to impact filming.  They revamped ep 17 to make it fit the finale and basically scrapped 18 and 19. 

I wish SPN had done something like that.  I'd rather have a definitive ending even if it meant 2 or 3 less eps.  Given that nothing has really happened all season, I don't see it being that hard. 

I know they all want to film the ending, and I know they will do everything in their power to to do so, but nothing is guaranteed.  If for some reason it doesn't that means the shows legacy ends on a (not sure if writers for eps are spoilers so tagging just in case.

Spoiler

Beren's ep

That's worse. 

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Obviously JMO, but I think things will begin opening up in June. So I think that filming (only three weeks, right) will be done by the end of July; production after that. It's my hope that we will be able to see the last seven episodes in the fall, ending before the Christmas holiday. We'll see. Like you said, nothing is guaranteed, but I do believe they will try to move heaven and earth (heh) to get this series done.

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Whatever they do, I hope they keep their word to air the final episodes without a break. I did read that somewhere,  I'm sure.  There is, IMO, no percentage in a ratings draw at this point. For once, just put the fans first and  put us out of our misery  give us what we want. 

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6 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

Obviously JMO, but I think things will begin opening up in June. So I think that filming (only three weeks, right) will be done by the end of July; production after that. It's my hope that we will be able to see the last seven episodes in the fall, ending before the Christmas holiday. We'll see. Like you said, nothing is guaranteed, but I do believe they will try to move heaven and earth (heh) to get this series done.

I think they completed filming on five eps and only had the final 2 to go.  The others are stuck in post-production.  Again JMO, I think the BTS staff will be able to get back sooner than the actors (fewer staff required for each section and they can work separately instead of all hands on deck as in filming) so it's possible that they might revamp those 5 eps to come up with an ending that would only require minor reshooting instead of full cast and crew.  If I had more faith in the writers I might think it would help (the same way the shortened season 3 actually worked well by compressing and eliminating unnecessary filler).  As it is, I have no faith that the next 5 eps will be anything other than junk leading up to a "grand finale" we won't necessarily like, so I wouldn't mind having them rethink, cut and prune.  It would (probably) be better than 4 nonsense filler eps then 3 with everything and the kitchen sink tossed in.  JMO, of course.

BTW, this article https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/gallery/a-guide-to-every-tv-show-that-was-forced-to-end-early-amid-the-coronavirus-pandemic/ss-BB13tGq8?li=BBnb7Kz 

lists all the shows that missed their season or series finale.  It mentioned many that did wind up with shortened seasons/revamped eps that turned into season finales and those with plans to finish up, but for SPN it just said the ending was on hold indefinitely.    

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

For once, just put the fans first and  put us out of our misery  give us what we want. 

I'm pretty sure that ship has sailed, and the best we can hope is to "put us out of our misery."  

 

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37 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

Obviously JMO, but I think things will begin opening up in June

Things in the US seem to be getting worse, not better.  So how would it work with actors coming in.  Would they have to quarantine for 2 weeks before they even start filming?

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4 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Things in the US seem to be getting worse, not better.  So how would it work with actors coming in.  Would they have to quarantine for 2 weeks before they even start filming?

That's assuming Canada would even let them in.  Right now I think they're only allowing critical workers across the border.  I don't think actors are considered "critical" yet.  Maybe in a few more weeks when we even run out of reruns.  

 

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1 minute ago, ahrtee said:

That's assuming Canada would even let them in.  Right now I think they're only allowing critical workers across the border.  I don't think actors are considered "critical" yet.  Maybe in a few more weeks when we even run out of reruns.  

 

I was also reading that if filming resumes, there would be no love scenes, kissing scenes, or action/fight scenes in order to abide by social distance rules.  

So basically all eps would be standing around and talking.  Which fits with this season.  lol

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With the way things are going, it is entirely possible that "fall Season" this year is done and new episodes of shows won't air until next year. So SPN and others may finish/resume in 2021. 

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23 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

 

So basically all eps would be standing around and talking.  

Or dangling from wires....

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11 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

Or dangling from wires....

Six feet apart.  

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tenor.gif

Edited by bethy
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Ok, here's my ending: it's announced that due to loss of focus, funding, momentum, personnel, etc, Supernatural is cancelled. Cut to Chuck grinning, saying, "that was easy, let's see what else is on". Pull back to show him eating junk food on a living room couch. He turns on the tv, which displays some generic superhero show.

Fade to black.

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On 5/19/2020 at 5:35 PM, dr pepper said:

Pull back to show him eating junk food on a living room couch. He turns on the tv, which displays

Dean kicking his ASS.  The yes I'd be on board.  I really only came here to tell you I love your screen name, Dr. Pepper, and also you're namesake to which I am hopelessly addicted.  

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On 5/19/2020 at 3:35 PM, dr pepper said:

Ok, here's my ending: it's announced that due to loss of focus, funding, momentum, personnel, etc, Supernatural is cancelled. Cut to Chuck grinning, saying, "that was easy, let's see what else is on". Pull back to show him eating junk food on a living room couch. He turns on the tv, which displays some generic superhero show.

Fade to black.

Gasp!

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On 5/21/2020 at 6:41 AM, trudysmom said:

I really only came here to tell you I love your screen name, Dr. Pepper, and also you're namesake to which I am hopelessly addicted.  

Thanks, but it's "Dr Pepper", no period. I think they dropped it back in the 40s. Yeah, i've been using this handle since the bbs days. I used to polish off two big bottles at a gaming session, but alas, now i have to be more restrained for the sake of my weight :(

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ohjoy

Please use this topic to discussion about your general speculation and thoughts on the upcoming end of the series only. Keep long discussions on other topics (overall show history, media/social media updates, Bitch vs. Jerk, etc.) to the appropriate other topic, as usual. Thank you.

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