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S4.E10: All That Hard Glossy Armor

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On 3/28/2019 at 1:54 AM, AudienceofOne said:

Unfortunately I didn't think the song choices and execution quite worked for this episode in the way it's worked for previous musical ones. It didn't feel as integrated as I would have liked.

I completely agree. It's rare that I am disappointed in an episode of this show, but those musical numbers felt to much like fan service to me, and I was always taken out of the episode when the songs started, and was actually looking away from the tv during them. I had a mild chuckle when Kady belted out the one verse and heard Margo say something like "show off" but other than that, half the episode was wasted for me.

I also didn't understand why Monster Eliot killed the girl he met in the bar.

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1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I also didn't understand why Monster Eliot killed the girl he met in the bar.

I don't think he did. Am pretty sure the severed head belonged to the lepchrechaun.

He simply went all "New friend!" on the girl, like he did with Q. And the medium (?) in earlier episodes. I don't even think he intents to kill her (yet?) or that she's magical in any way. She just did something that none of our heroes did for obvious and understandable reasons: She touched him gently. And that triggered some memories of his sister. 

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44 minutes ago, Azi said:

I don't think he did. Am pretty sure the severed head belonged to the lepchrechaun.

Thanks for this. I didn't pick up on that. See the music was such a distraction this episode I wasn't paying that close attention I guess. Had I actually read the thread before posting, I would have seen it was discussed already. Glad I wasn't the only one confused though.

Edited by Spaceman Spiff

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I think most likely the Monster found Aengus by remembering he was really Aengus and not Enyalius and therefore could be found by going through a leprechaun, like Julia knew. His memories have been coming back to him.

4 hours ago, Poltargyst said:

Ok, I have a question.  Why is it important that Margo be a King rather than a Queen.  I mean if you are the sovereign female of the country, aren't you the Queen? Is there something wrong with being a Queen?

4 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

A King outranks you by definition of being a King? Queens are Queens because women were deemed to be inherently lessor than men. That's why a King is married to a Queen but a Queen who rules is married to a Prince. Because if he was King, he'd be in charge.

A King doesn't inherently outrank a Queen in our world (Albert and Philip being called Prince Consort instead of King Consort has to do with sexism, yes, but also other politics and it wasn't established Albert wouldn't be called King until Parliament declared it so, to the disappointment of German relatives), but in this case the position Eliot and Tick were running for in Fillory is called High King, and the name stayed the same when Margo won. Kind of like the Xanth novels, where there was a law against a ruling Queen, and the characters just got around it by having women be titled King instead of changing the law.

In contrast, Hizdahr was called King of Mereen after marrying Daenerys in A Song of Ice and Fire, even though he was 'Consort to Dragons' and second fiddle and she was titled Queen, not King.

Edited by Noneofyourbusiness

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I guess we’ll find out next ep whose head it was bc it will be relevant to the plot...or it won’t bc it’s meaningless.

Monster!E needed a way to track the god’s ‘signature’ per Julia and the writers needed a device to trigger his suppressed memories.

My opinion of this ep is a bit out of sync with the general feel (I think). None of them (JT included) have rock voices so Whitesnake’s HIGA was subpar for me.

DGMW was gorgeous in a dreamy otherworldly way that I think evoked the whole spirit animal vibe and the fact it was Margo’s head not E. Bravo Hale!

BD was well done as the metaphor for Margo’s emotional growth. I love Margo’s introspection and how she handled herself. Feminist demons depicted by red trails is heavy-hand; not the feminism but the on the rag image.

i think overall the E! possession story is taking too long to resolve. I know that’s somewhat bc they are using it to grow M, E, and Q emotionally. But it’s eating up the whole season with this Little Bad while waiting for the real Big Bad to arrive. I don’t think a season with a major character (again) just gone works super well esp not El bc the show needs HA’s energy.

I love Zelda’s storyline but I fear for her. I’m glad they are giving Kady a purpose. Alice continues to suffer from being ‘the best’ at magic — hard to like the know it all character who lacks emotional intelligence.

I deeply fear for Julia.

And they need to pay off Q’s suffering with some happiness in this timeline not some alternate we barely saw.

Edited by chrisvee

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14 hours ago, AuntieMame said:

 It seems Sera Gamble made incredible use of her apprenticeship in various Whedon shows as she is putting out not only great television but some genuinely subversive feminist writing too. 

Are you perhaps confusing Sera Gamble with Sarah Fain won was the show runner on Dollhouse's second season?

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Legit tears at the end of the final song. Seeing everyone sing together and Margo wielding the axes was amazing. So awesome. 

Did anyone catch the vibe that Penny snatched onto Quentin to travel them out but that Quentin was reaching for the Monster? Maybe I'm reading too much into that. 

Kady has pipes! She's fantastic. 

Summer and Hale need Emmy's. And all the movies. They deserve mad props. 

I wonder if Julia could kill the monster somehow? Since she's indestructible. I know they are trying to save Eliot's body... but could she? Could she get magic from say, Alice, like when she first gave up her god magic in the switcheroo thing? And then stomp him out? 

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10 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

You mean "Narnia of the Calormenes reference ala The Horse and His Boy", right? I assume you mean that and not "Narnia of the Telmarines reference ala Prince Caspian", since you mentioned Aravis, but I'm not 100% sure since both are imperialist and the Telmarines actually conquered Narnia, so there was a Telmarine-era Narnia, hence "Narnia of the Telmarines".

Was Sera Gamble involved in Whedon shows? I don't see any mentioned in her history on Wikipedia or IMDB, or by Googling. Could you be confusing her with Jane Espenson (who was involved in Buffy, Angel, Firefly and Dollhouse)?

Yes, I meant Narnia of the Calormenes and The Horse and His Boy.

I would have sworn that I read Gamble's name on Whedon credits but checking Wikipedia's page it was probably Supernatural which I watched in the early years. Thank you so much for helping me. I will correct my post. 

1 hour ago, Delphi said:

Are you perhaps confusing Sera Gamble with Sarah Fain won was the show runner on Dollhouse's second season?

No I was confusing Supernatural and reading her name there with a Whedon show. I'm off to correct my post. Thank you and apologies. 

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7 hours ago, Poltargyst said:

Ok, I have a question.  Why is it important that Margo be a King rather than a Queen.  I mean if you are the sovereign female of the country, aren't you the Queen? Is there something wrong with being a Queen?

I think that the issue is that Margo was elected High King and there hasn't been a High Queen of Fillory. I agree with you though that erasing feminitives in the language ultimately erases women. There isn't anything wrong with being a queen, or an actress or a priestess. Using male words for us doesn't change sexism. To be fair, I think Gamble is very aware of this and is trying to bring attention to the issue. At least I hope so. 

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4 hours ago, AuntieMame said:

Thank you so much for helping me. I will correct my post.

You're welcome!

5 hours ago, Glory said:

I wonder if Julia could kill the monster somehow? Since she's indestructible. I know they are trying to save Eliot's body... but could she? Could she get magic from say, Alice, like when she first gave up her god magic in the switcheroo thing? And then stomp him out? 

I don't think being indestructible would help her, because gods can still harm her and the Monster can harm gods so it stands to reason he can harm her, too. But she might be able to fight him if she got her other powers back.

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6 hours ago, AuntieMame said:

I think that the issue is that Margo was elected High King and there hasn't been a High Queen of Fillory. I agree with you though that erasing feminitives in the language ultimately erases women. There isn't anything wrong with being a queen, or an actress or a priestess. Using male words for us doesn't change sexism. To be fair, I think Gamble is very aware of this and is trying to bring attention to the issue. At least I hope so. 

I completely disagree.

The idea that if a woman does a job it's somehow different from a man doing the same job and therefore needs a different name reduces them permanently to a lessor position. I refuse to use gendered versions of actor, waiter etc. Just because a woman does it, doesn't make the job different and the fact a woman is doing it doesn't need to be distinguished. This doesn't erase women, it implies they're incapable of doing the same job to the same degree of competence. 

And my answer related specifically to the question - which was why it was important to Margo that she's a King, not a Queen. And that's clearly because the word 'Queen' was invented under the assumption that a woman will always be subordinate to a man, even if she has the same job.

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8 hours ago, Glory said:

Did anyone catch the vibe that Penny snatched onto Quentin to travel them out but that Quentin was reaching for the Monster? Maybe I'm reading too much into that...Kady has pipes! She's fantastic....I wonder if Julia could kill the monster somehow? Since she's indestructible.

I saw references to that vibe on Tumblr — that Penny saved Q and Jules while Q was reaching to try to save El’s body.

JT does have a spectacular voice although I didn’t love the song choice.

I fear more that Jules is the indestructible god body that the sister needs and they will be bound together.

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9 hours ago, chrisvee said:

I guess we’ll find out next ep whose head it was bc it will be relevant to the plot...or it won’t bc it’s meaningless.

Here's a screenshot of Monster!Eliot holding the head: tumblr_pp53ifsSkJ1s10ig3o1_1280.jpg

Definitely the leprechaun.

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On 3/27/2019 at 4:04 PM, Hanahope said:

Dean Fogg!!!  I cannot wait for this tonight!

I was really excited when he appeared!

On 3/27/2019 at 9:43 PM, chrisvee said:

Lizard!Eliot was so hot that I can’t really form thoughts right now.

Holy cow, you’re are so right!  He was...fans self...wow.

I watched last night before I went to sleep, and after my dog woke me up for a potty run at 3 am I was laying in bed singing Beautiful Dreamer to myself. It took me a while to remember why.

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I don't think Julia needs to be worried about becoming a sister host. The whole thing about the big rocks that were inside those gods is that they are the sister's body. Now, monster himself might want to jump into an indestructible body (and might try if Margo succeeds in ousting him from Elliot).

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14 hours ago, chrisvee said:

I deeply fear for Julia.

The repetition that Julia is indestructible reached the level of ominous to me this episode.  Something bad is going to happen.

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9 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

I completely disagree.

The idea that if a woman does a job it's somehow different from a man doing the same job and therefore needs a different name reduces them permanently to a lessor position. I refuse to use gendered versions of actor, waiter etc. Just because a woman does it, doesn't make the job different and the fact a woman is doing it doesn't need to be distinguished. This doesn't erase women, it implies they're incapable of doing the same job to the same degree of competence. 

And my answer related specifically to the question - which was why it was important to Margo that she's a King, not a Queen. And that's clearly because the word 'Queen' was invented under the assumption that a woman will always be subordinate to a man, even if she has the same job.

I feel like there is value in having words that are just descriptive to let us know whether the person is male or female.  I don't think a queen has to be inferior to a king though I get that's the way it's always been.

Having said that, if/when we have a woman president, I won't have any need to call her "presidentess".  When I refer to actors I say actor whether male or female so maybe it depends on context for me.

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7 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

The repetition that Julia is indestructible reached the level of ominous to me this episode.  Something bad is going to happen.

When she said she would reach into the claw machine because she's indestructible, I thought, okay, you might be unkillable but it will still hurt like hell to get stabbed by those sharp claws!

But yes, the constant "I'm unkillable" reminders makes me think that something is going to find the loophole in this and find a way to hurt her, kill her, or banish her to some kind of hell dimension.

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Quote

The way the Monster talked about the girl in the bar reminding him of his sister, I think he's keeping her for his sister to possess. 

The girl in the bar was played by Magda Apanowicz. She's pretty well known to anyone who watches a lot of Canadian TV (especially SciFi). She's been a regular on shows like Continuum, Travelers, Caprica and Kyle XY. They wouldn't have hired her for this role if it were just one scene. She'll be back.

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KYLE XY! That's why she looked so familiar to me (and she played a girl with cancer there, too heeeh). I fully expect to see her again. Maybe the Monster will try to cure her (and possibly do something really bad in the process).

Edited by Azi

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I've never liked musical episodes and this one didn't change my mind, but The Magicians is so good that I very much enjoyed this episode in spite of the musical interludes.  The scenes in the desert were so striking, and it was very satisfying that Margo got the straight scoop on the demons and overthrew the misogynist creeps. I'm also glad we got a little bit of Margo's backstory. We've known so little about her and Penny this whole time. 

The escape room was also fun, although I felt it should have been more of its own episode so we could get more details and complications there. Julia is getting awfully confident in her invincibility, which does not bode well. Obviously gods can be killed; multiple gods have been killed with our cast's involvement. They were there to warn a god that he was in danger! I wonder if she actually knows what her limits are.

I just want the magic rationing to be over and done with so we can go back to all the fun, spontaneous execution of magic. Spending entire episodes to dredge up the resources for one spell that isn't so dazzling to look at just isn't the same.

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On 3/29/2019 at 6:25 PM, Azi said:

Here's a screenshot of Monster!Eliot holding the head: tumblr_pp53ifsSkJ1s10ig3o1_1280.jpg

Definitely the leprechaun.

do you think so? these plastic fake heads all look alike to me.

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53 minutes ago, chrisvee said:

do you think so? these plastic fake heads all look alike to me.

Yes, because I remember the other actress' face really well, since I kept thinking "I know her. Where do I know her from." and turns out, as stated above, I do know her from Kyle XY.

For reference, here is the leprechaun:

maxresdefault.jpg

You can also see her earrings on the severed head.

 

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11 hours ago, Enginerd said:

I've never liked musical episodes and this one didn't change my mind, but The Magicians is so good that I very much enjoyed this episode in spite of the musical interludes.  The scenes in the desert were so striking, and it was very satisfying that Margo got the straight scoop on the demons and overthrew the misogynist creeps. I'm also glad we got a little bit of Margo's backstory. We've known so little about her and Penny this whole time. 

The escape room was also fun, although I felt it should have been more of its own episode so we could get more details and complications there. Julia is getting awfully confident in her invincibility, which does not bode well. Obviously gods can be killed; multiple gods have been killed with our cast's involvement. They were there to warn a god that he was in danger! I wonder if she actually knows what her limits are.

I just want the magic rationing to be over and done with so we can go back to all the fun, spontaneous execution of magic. Spending entire episodes to dredge up the resources for one spell that isn't so dazzling to look at just isn't the same.

I agree.  Between last season and this, it's been a long time since we've been able to see the gang cut loose with the magic.  Can't the writers think of enough challenges for them if they can use magic freely?  Doesn't seem to be a problem in other stories.  I miss Eliot too.

Next season I want magic restored, everyone back to themselves kicking ass and working together to solve the threat.

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On 3/28/2019 at 7:24 AM, ProudMary said:

I laughed out loud at the portrait of Laura Bush hanging in Emmit's office while Zelda was snooping. Nice touch!

😲

I laughed hard at the Laura Bush portrait.

Uh, "shoe" away? I think he meant "shoo." 😉

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On 4/1/2019 at 6:36 PM, Azi said:

Yes, because I remember the other actress' face really well, since I kept thinking "I know her. Where do I know her from." and turns out, as stated above, I do know her from Kyle XY.

For reference, here is the leprechaun:

maxresdefault.jpg

You can also see her earrings on the severed head.

 

Awesome! Now maybe we’ll find out this week if any of this matters or if they were both disposable characters!

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On 3/28/2019 at 11:22 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I laughed out loud at the portrait of Laura Bush hanging in Emmit's office while Zelda was snooping. Nice touch!

I guess she was a librarian herself. I did not know that until she appeared as a portrait.

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