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S03.E16: Chapter Fifty-One: Big Fun

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1 hour ago, MollyWebber said:

I love KJ and think he's an extremely talented musician but don't think he sings very well. 

He sounds too sweet. I feel like I just overdosed on sugar, lol. 

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48 minutes ago, Wilpen said:

He sounds too sweet. I feel like I just overdosed on sugar, lol. 

KJ is so pure, lol. But I also think he sings like he’s trying to sound like Archie as opposed to KJ’s natural accent, if that makes sense.

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I thought this was a fun episode (Big Fun).  Not the greatest thing ever, but this show was getting into a rut and needed something to break it up and change the pace.  

I thought the music was pretty good, although unlike some here I thought the Lifeboat song Veronica sang was kind of dumb.

I liked the touch at the end with Betty wearing the Jughead shirt.  About the only reason I'm watching this is for Bughead.

The creepy clapping by the Farm people was effective, but it bugged me that NO ONE ELSE in the whole theater broke into any sort of applause when the play ended!?  Not realistic.  I mean, c'mon, it wasn't that bad.

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Can't figure out what is going on with this show. Loved the first year. I don't know why they would have put Josie and Archie together...after Val and when they KNOW they would never let Archie be with anyone other than Veronica or Betty .  Having missed most of last year and almost all of this year I don't know how they got together.  the odds of the other show working out are slim since this one is slipping. I liked the way they deviated from the comics with the betty jughead pairing and I do wish they would do the same for Archie.  Could it be that Josie is guarding her heart because Archie is so wishy washy, and because she feels it is just a matter of time before he runs back to Veronica?

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1 hour ago, HeatLifer said:

KJ is so pure, lol. But I also think he sings like he’s trying to sound like Archie as opposed to KJ’s natural accent, if that makes sense.

Makes complete sense. Totally agree! 

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5 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

So was that it for Veronica and Reggie then? I can't tell.

Yeah I’m not sure what they are doing with Veronica and her relationships. I feel like Reggie and Veronica are still an option because I still think they want to do a archie veronica Reggie triangle. They didn’t even really expand on that at all, but we will see. At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if they throw in another contender for Veronica’s affections, her character is so random.

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I noticed a major theme of the musical was "I'm beautiful", something that young people are preoccupied with, and something that young people are trying to discover, or hoping to discover about themselves.  And it's consistent with the attractive cast they have.

As an older person, I find myself constantly noticing how "Everything is so beautiful" around me.  It's an interesting contrast how that subtle change has crept in, going from one more to the other.

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9 minutes ago, rmontro said:

I noticed a major theme of the musical was "I'm beautiful", something that young people are preoccupied with, and something that young people are trying to discover, or hoping to discover about themselves.  And it's consistent with the attractive cast they have.

As an older person, I find myself constantly noticing how "Everything is so beautiful" around me.  It's an interesting contrast how that subtle change has crept in, going from one more to the other.

I noticed that theme as well and I was actually quite pleased with it. The show was basically acknowledging that these kids have quite a fucked-up time of it. So they were saying they love themselves, they're beautiful, they have value, regardless of what the adults have and continue to put them through. Too bad the musical was sponsored by The fucking Farm but I will take it. 

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LMAO. Last week, I was like, "Hey, half the couples who should break up broke up. Things are finally going well in Riverdale!" Little did I know the writers saw that as the Darkest Moment before they all got back together in the musical. Okay.

21 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Again it’s kind of odd Alice wasn’t in this episode? Considering it was the big farm reveal of Edgar and all the others and learning weatherbee is in on the farm. I’m curious that neither Lodge parent is farm adjacent(at least not yet I guess) but I thought one of them was more than likely going to be a part of the cult as well.

Maybe she was banned after she made the musical all about herself last year.

7 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

They didn't have him sing a note in the first musical last year and they should have kept to that.

I kind of love that they seem to have gone out of their way to cast all of these young actors who love musical theatre or whatever, and they all sing and dance and prance around all the time... except Cole. Usually it makes sense because Jughead's too cool to like anything, so he's obviously not going to burst into song (and because only the women on this show are forced to do a sexy dance every time they want to change clubs) -- but then you get this "musical episode" thing...

I think there was an opportunity for real comedy by having him just casually NOT sing or actively REFUSE to sing, and they missed out.

3 hours ago, angora said:

Also?  Informing someone (who isn't in the play) that he's been randomly added to the closing number and telling his girlfriend to teach him his line/the choreography after opening night has already started is such a high-school production thing to do - made me laugh.

It also kind of seems like a nightmare people have.

I thought it was funny that FP was sitting in the audience with a confused expression on his face because, yeah, there are so many questions. Why is my son in this play, now? Why am I watching this play if my son wasn't supposed to be in it? Is he trying to dance or is he not trying to dance? Why did they skip the comedy of having him refuse to dance?

But then, as others have said, everybody looked confused for some reason and while that's probably realistic to what your parents would look like watching your dumb school play, I don't know what it signified in this case.

2 hours ago, Wilpen said:

He sounds too sweet. I feel like I just overdosed on sugar, lol. 

I think their voices sound over-produced whenever they sing anything, especially if there's a direct transition from talking to singing. I feel like I have no idea what any of them would sound like in real life.

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20 minutes ago, MollyWebber said:

I noticed that theme as well and I was actually quite pleased with it. The show was basically acknowledging that these kids have quite a fucked-up time of it. So they were saying they love themselves, they're beautiful, they have value, regardless of what the adults have and continue to put them through. Too bad the musical was sponsored by The fucking Farm but I will take it. 

Yeah that’s what makes me sad about all those things.. they will be all moot. Like seventeen they can’t be seventeen, they can’t be normal and go to the movies. And yeah the beautiful theme was nice but again it’s all for moot because they will continue to be broken down by the people who are supposed to love them. Not to mention the farm aspect of this whole thing as you said.

Again I have to bring it up it’s kinda strange that Alice wasn’t in this episode. Because this was the big dark reveal, not just Edgar but all the other members and learning Weatherbee is a part of the cult as well. 

And yeah I loved the Bughead duet and moments but it makes me super sad when I think about that none of the characters are going to be able to be seventeen. Like that’s actually a really sad thought and yes no one needs to tell me I know what this show is but this just makes me sad and it reminds me that this is show is so dark now. I think that may have been the point here but it’s sad tI me.

eta: @SourK you’re probably right that Alice was banned after the last musical.

Also I’m assuming the Jones were attending to support betty for Jughead which is all kinds of adorable if you ask me. But yeah I’m one of the people who said all the parents looked confused, now I know it was supposed to be a statement f youto the parents but honestly I don’t think all the parents would look confused by the song. The reactions of the audience were just.. odd. That’s why it didn’t translate for me well. Also having the big Edgar cult reveal makes it something different as well. At least to me. I’m just one viewer so yeah.. just how it looked to me, others may have gotten it, I did not.

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1 hour ago, MollyWebber said:

I noticed that theme as well and I was actually quite pleased with it. The show was basically acknowledging that these kids have quite a fucked-up time of it. So they were saying they love themselves, they're beautiful, they have value, regardless of what the adults have and continue to put them through. Too bad the musical was sponsored by The fucking Farm but I will take it. 

Support your local Farm cult lol.

There was a line in the last song, I think.  It said something about "when we get older, someone will love us".  And I was thinking yeah, Veronica's parents, Betty's mom, and some of the other adults should come out of the audience and say "Um, I hate to break the news to you, but...."

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Oh, yeah!  Riverdale bringing back another musical episode that once again manages to fix all of the relationship issues!  Well, to be fair, it looks like Veronica and Reggie are still not back together officially, but the two have a better understanding now.  But due to the power of song, Cheryl/Toni are back to being the lovey-dovey couple, despite all of the odious, petty shit Cheryl has done to Toni, including this episode alone.  You need help, Toni.

I love Veronica (or, really, Camila Mendes), but her freaking out over her parents divorcing is so weird.  Really, why is she loyal to this family?  Neither Hiram or Hermione have her best interests at heart, and pretty much just use her whenever they see fit.  Why does she feel the need to keep them together?  Free yourself, Veronica!

Continue to be surprise how much I like Archie/Josie and, in general, how much K.J. Apa has improved as an actor throughout the seasons.

I thought all of the singing was fine.  No one should quit their day job or anything, but there wasn't anything too worth getting worked up over.

Thought it was strange that we didn't get a glimpse of Fred in the audience, but I selfishly didn't miss the gut punch this go around of seeing Luke Perry on screen and knowing he's gone.  It is still going to be rough once Fred's exit happens.

Oh, Bughead!  The couple that burns out the family trailer that was turned into a drug lab due to said mom becoming to new drug kingpin together, always stays together!

So, it looks like Chad Michael Murray is running The Farm!  This should be fun!  Can't wait to hear more of his crazy rules:

New cult member: "Hey, why are we required to watch the entire One Tree Hill series each month?"

Evelyn: "Because Father decrees it!"

Then again, if he uses his evil cult powers to revive Agent Carter, I would join The Farm quicker then you can say "Evil Cult Leader Chad Michael Murray!"

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17 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Oh, yeah!  Riverdale bringing back another musical episode that once again manages to fix all of the relationship issues!  Well, to be fair, it looks like Veronica and Reggie are still not back together officially, but the two have a better understanding now.  But due to the power of song, Cheryl/Toni are back to being the lovey-dovey couple, despite all of the odious, petty shit Cheryl has done to Toni, including this episode alone.  You need help, Toni.

I love Veronica (or, really, Camila Mendes), but her freaking out over her parents divorcing is so weird.  Really, why is she loyal to this family?  Neither Hiram or Hermione have her best interests at heart, and pretty much just use her whenever they see fit.  Why does she feel the need to keep them together?  Free yourself, Veronica!

Continue to be surprise how much I like Archie/Josie and, in general, how much K.J. Apa has improved as an actor throughout the seasons.

I thought all of the singing was fine.  No one should quit their day job or anything, but there wasn't anything too worth getting worked up over.

Thought it was strange that we didn't get a glimpse of Fred in the audience, but I selfishly didn't miss the gut punch this go around of seeing Luke Perry on screen and knowing he's gone.  It is still going to be rough once Fred's exit happens.

Oh, Bughead!  The couple that burns out the family trailer that was turned into a drug lab due to said mom becoming to new drug kingpin together, always stays together!

So, it looks like Chad Michael Murray is running The Farm!  This should be fun!  Can't wait to hear more of his crazy rules:

New cult member: "Hey, why are we required to watch the entire One Tree Hill series each month?"

Evelyn: "Because Father decrees it!"

Then again, if he uses his evil cult powers to revive Agent Carter, I would join The Farm quicker then you can say "Evil Cult Leader Chad Michael Murray!"

I’m like the only person who isn’t excited that CMM is the cult leader and I watched one tree hill. I just don’t really like the actor . Then again this is also how I feel about Charles Melton and I’m alone in that too. 

And I agree with you on most of these things you posted. I’m glad Toni and Cheryl had a conversation at least but they still need to address more of their issues but they probably won’t. Seriously, at this point I am trying to accept that anything that happens episode to happen aren’t supposed to follow the last episode or past episodes, unless someone mentions something. This show seems to work that each episode is a separate canon and I have to learn to accept that.

Its times like this when I can’t help but think of the perfect first season. And yes I know the show is different now but it was kind of a perfect capsule that first season. 

Im glad there was no Fred too. But it is odd that neither Alice nor Fred were there.

Yeah as I keep saying they have no idea how to write veronica. She makes no sense. In the first half of this season she hated her parents and then in this half she’s trying to keep the family name out of drug thing and then keep them together? Okay. Makes no sense. Remember in season 2 she was horrified to find pictures her father had of her mother and Fred’s affair because he was going to use them to destroy Fred’s mayor campaign? And then was even more shocked to find out her mother knew. Again.. the show needs to figure out this character. That’s why I’m not convinced she and Reggie are done. It made me smile that people actually thought they were last week. I don’t like Veggie as I say countless times but I wouldn’t be surprised if they randomly hook up next episode just because.

Anyone who mentions Bughead just makes me have to say they are the superior ship on this show. Even the Riverdale writers twitter tweeted this exact statement. So that’s all.

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I love Veronica (or, really, Camila Mendes), but her freaking out over her parents divorcing is so weird.  Really, why is she loyal to this family?  Neither Hiram or Hermione have her best interests at heart, and pretty much just use her whenever they see fit.  Why does she feel the need to keep them together?  Free yourself, Veronica!

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It's always better the devil you know.

Veronica's family has always been fucked up and horrible (second only to Cheryl) and it's the only way she's ever known love growing up. If you're in a crime family loyalty and a united front are going to be the most important things, and that's what they've always fallen back on. Even during the slow-mo trainwreck that was Hiram's obsession with Archie they were a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad family.

So when Hiram announces that since Hermione's tried to off him twice, which in any other family would be a signal that things have gone seriously off the rails, of course Veronica's upset. Their policy, in its entirety, was Double Down on Bad Choices because otherwise you're admitting to what you've allowed to happen and actively participated in, with no positive result. So what if Mom tried to kill you, Dad? You've put us in mortal danger countless times! Now you're just being selfish in walking away!

No matter how bad it's been, having one of the players abruptly quit this game must feel like somebody coming up to you and announcing that nothing you've ever thought of as yours ever was, and you've got to start over naked, with nothing.

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I thought Casey sounded great.  His voice seemed really familiar to me; I feel like it reminds me of another Broadway actor's, but I can't place whose.

You're probably thinking of his brother, Corey Cott, who is known for Newsies and Bandstand. I personally think Casey also sounds a little bit like Aaron Tveit, who is known for Next To Normal and Grease Live.

"Seventeen" really struck me. Just in terms of the fact that none of these kids get to be kids because all of the adults are fucked up beyond belief save for Fred.*sniff* It also gave me some Glee nostalgia feels.

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Veronica's family has always been fucked up and horrible (second only to Cheryl) and it's the only way she's ever known love growing up. If you're in a crime family loyalty and a united front are going to be the most important things, and that's what they've always fallen back on. Even during the slow-mo trainwreck that was Hiram's obsession with Archie they were a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad family.

ICA.  Though I think it may be a little more complicated for Veronica because I feel like she has often seen Hermione as Hiram's victim and it's recently been driven home (the Noir Episode) that Hermione is just a different kind of villain to Hiram, but still VERY much a villain.

She's willing to watch (and help when she can) others fight her families ill-doings BUT she can't stomach a kill shot, as it were.  While Betty isn't my favorite character, I was really impressed at how she went to hold Veronica.  She detest Veronica's parents for everything they've done to Jughead and Archie and Riverdale as a whole (and probably thinks them being less of an influence/presence in Veronica's life is for the best) but realizes Veronica isn't in a place or frankly mature enough to see it that way.

I also think that's why Archie never blamed her for all that happened between him and her family.  He and Veronica were together for quite a while, he knows her pretty well. I think he more than anyone knows how inexperienced she is some aspects, not just in terms of genuine friendships and romance (not sex, he was the first one to say the L word), but people in general.  I don't think he gives a damn about the Lodges but his look at Veronica during "Seventeen" was because he knows how she is going to react to a lot of what's likely coming.

Though, I can't tell where the writers are going with this.  It feels like they are gearing up for the show to be down at least one Lodge.  Though I'm not sure which one.  And I found it interesting that we learned Veronica very much wants to get the hell out of Riverdale, per her singing in the beginning of the episode (unless it was random).  I found it very telling.

I get the impression (pre-Riverdale) she was always at the "party."   Either, thanks to Hirams money (he and Hermione payed 80k in Medical Bills for Fred because Veronica stamped her foot) or the influence and clout of Nick St. Claire and other "bad hats."  I imagine life was easier/simpler during these times, does she want to go back to that?

Though possible, I'm giving the show/writers WAY to much credit.

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I think all the teenagers have had horrible family’s, except for Archie, Kevin and Josie. Betty has awful parents(I know people ignore Alice from season one and two but she was mentally awful to her) and her father is a killer. Jughead hasn’t had the easiest family life either, his dad was also awful, I know were supposed to ignore his awful behavior now but I can’t forget and his mother abandoned him and is now running a drug ring. All the parents are villains(except for the three(four of you count Archie’s mom) I mentioned). Some parents are worse and have done way more awful things but still.. none of them have had it easy.

Granted I do think we are supposed to forget some certain awful parents behavior just because of the writing, like FP. And I feel like he’s the one they’re going to trynkake it better and fill the void of Fred but I honestly can’t forget his first two seasons. Even last season fP was kind of awful to Jughead at times but hey let’s not remember that.

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16 hours ago, catrice2 said:

and I do wish they would do the same for Archie. 

Sadly, IMO, I do think Archie is stuck with Veronica for reasons outside of whether these characters actually make sense together. My only hope is that I can at least get a prolonged break from them, hopefully into next season. 

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I have such a fondness for Gina Gershon, due to Showgirls. No one can sell a line like "You are a whore, darlin!" like she can. That whole exchange with Elizabeth Berkley is pure gold. They toast with potato chips! (Doggy chow and champagne.)

I have to say, I love Blake Neely's theme: Damnit, I can't seem to post the link. Just YouTube 01. Riverdale - Riverdale: Season 1 Original Score - Blake Neely

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I really didn't like this one, easily the worst Riverdale episode of all. I kept thinking how much better BtVS musical episode was, it made sense within the plot and Joss Whedon's songs were much better. Plus, no Luke Perry! 😞 

I did think it was funny how limited Cole Sprouse singing was, he must be the only non-singer of the main cast. Interesting ending but really, how could EVERYONE in Riverdale get sucked into the cult? You would expect normal clapping from their parents at least.

I hope we get to see Mark Consuelo's abs in the next episode, since we have been getting those teasers all week thru Instagram.

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I think there are other episodes that can qualify for worst episode. For me actually it might be the second to last couple episodes of last season when they decided to make Hal the black Hood. Oh and possibly the Christmas episode because that was just a meaningless episode but I digress.

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I rewatched some scenes in this episode... 

When Bughead and Choni were singing “Can’t we be seventeen?” and Jughead goes down on one knee... I admit it, I thought it looked like the perfect moment to propose, lol. Seriously, I don't think it was a coincidence he went on one knee there, you were meant to think proposal (even if it wasn't happening). I love that moment. 😄

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47 minutes ago, Wilpen said:

I rewatched some scenes in this episode... 

When Bughead and Choni were singing “Can’t we be seventeen?” and Jughead goes down on one knee... I admit it, I thought it looked like the perfect moment to propose, lol. Seriously, I don't think it was a coincidence he went on one knee there, you were meant to think proposal (even if it wasn't happening). I love that moment. 😄

I know but Well he has sort of proposed to her already kind of, the moment when he asked her to be his serpent queen 🥰 seriously they’re the best ship!

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21 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I know but Well he has sort of proposed to her already kind of, the moment when he asked her to be his serpent queen 🥰 seriously they’re the best ship!

That's true!

I hope all of these little "proposal"moments are foreshadowing. Bughead is so stable and real, they could be the Naley of Riverdale, marrying early, and getting away from horrible parents. LOL.

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5 minutes ago, Wilpen said:

That's true!

I hope all of these little "proposal"moments are foreshadowing. Bughead is so stable and real, they could be the Naley of Riverdale, marrying early, and getting away from horrible parents. LOL.

Right? I mean look I know when it happened on one tree hill it was crazy but this show stopped being normal a long time ago.

But also sadly I don’t it will happen. This show still wants Barchie to happen(ugh) and probably wants to attempt at least one of the triangles, either the Betty Archie veronica one of the Archie Betty Jughead one. 

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Just now, WhosThatGirl said:

Right? I mean look I know when it happened on one tree hill it was crazy but this show stopped being normal a long time ago.

Precisely. Let's do this! LOL. 

Seriously, it would get Bughead away from their horrible parents and they are so real and strong together, it would work. It's interesting Jughead even asked Betty to move in with them. Betty told Veronica she was staying with her. Maybe that's another bit of foreshadowing... it's not right now but it will be soon. I'm twisting this but you never know, lol. I just can't see Jughead living in the ex-Cooper house without Betty. It seems weird. Trailer is gone. Betty has zero family to speak of unless she wants to live with The Farm or prison with her psychopath father. 

Bughead need to elope and get a place together!

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8 minutes ago, Wilpen said:

Precisely. Let's do this! LOL. 

Seriously, it would get Bughead away from their horrible parents and they are so real and strong together, it would work. It's interesting Jughead even asked Betty to move in with them. Betty told Veronica she was staying with her. Maybe that's another bit of foreshadowing... it's not right now but it will be soon. I'm twisting this but you never know, lol. I just can't see Jughead living in the ex-Cooper house without Betty. It seems weird. Trailer is gone. Betty has zero family to speak of unless she wants to live with The Farm or prison with her psychopath father. 

Bughead need to elope and get a place together!

I hope. But I don’t know... I honestly don’t know where this show is going half the time, especially with relationships and as much as they are writing Bughead pretty great thus far this season and I love it, I’m always waiting it for it to switch. I don’t trust it.

That said I agree with you on some point. The show has to know what it’s doing right? The one Jughead asks certain questions of Betty, serpent queen, moving in, etc. Betty accepting the title, the staging of Jughead looking like he was about to propose. The burning of the traiker( the place they said I love you and slept together) and him saying he’s okay because she’s with him. The ending of the musical and Bettys ending costume being the crown sweater. They have to know what they are doing here.

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1 hour ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I hope. But I don’t know... I honestly don’t know where this show is going half the time, especially with relationships and as much as they are writing Bughead pretty great thus far this season and I love it, I’m always waiting it for it to switch. I don’t trust it.

That said I agree with you on some point. The show has to know what it’s doing right? The one Jughead asks certain questions of Betty, serpent queen, moving in, etc. Betty accepting the title, the staging of Jughead looking like he was about to propose. The burning of the traiker( the place they said I love you and slept together) and him saying he’s okay because she’s with him. The ending of the musical and Bettys ending costume being the crown sweater. They have to know what they are doing here.

Right? There's so many little things that seem to point in a certain direction. Maybe we are giving the show too much credit but this list is tough to totally ignore. 

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1 hour ago, Wilpen said:

Right? There's so many little things that seem to point in a certain direction. Maybe we are giving the show too much credit but this list is tough to totally ignore. 

Yeah I know it’s ridiculous but the show is really doing a lot to send certain messages about this pairing.

I know they have had other couples do certain things. Veronica has called her and Archie end game, when they broke up archie made that speech about knowing Veronica was it for him when he first met. Reggie even called him and Veronica end game. And Kevin said Betty and Archie weee end game in the pilot but someone correct me neither betty or Jughead have ever said it about themselves right? I find that interesting too.

And it brings me back to the all the little moments they have had that mean a lot of things. Yes we could be giving the show too much credit, in fact we might be(although when it’s an episode written by RAS I don’t think so as he happens to be a big Bughead shippper) but all the little moments are interesting.

1 hour ago, HeatLifer said:

“Can we be seventeen?...and get married and move in together!” Heh.

Well considering this episode kind of pointed out that no they sadly can’t be seventeen 😞, it’s not that far fetched of an idea. Thinking back on this episode kind of made me sad actually. The ending moment with seventeen and everyone and then the cult leader ruining it just answered the no you can’t be seventeen. 

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8 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah I know it’s ridiculous but the show is really doing a lot to send certain messages about this pairing.

I know they have had other couples do certain things. Veronica has called her and Archie end game, when they broke up archie made that speech about knowing Veronica was it for him when he first met. Reggie even called him and Veronica end game. And Kevin said Betty and Archie weee end game in the pilot but someone correct me neither betty or Jughead have ever said it about themselves right? I find that interesting too.

And it brings me back to the all the little moments they have had that mean a lot of things. Yes we could be giving the show too much credit, in fact we might be(although when it’s an episode written by RAS I don’t think so as he happens to be a big Bughead shippper) but all the little moments are interesting. 

Well Kevin made the endgame comment about Betty and Archie in the pilot because the pilot was written with the intention of setting up the triangle. They didn't begin filming the rest of the season until after the show was picked up which was 5 to 6 mos later. By then they had changed direction to set up Bughead because rumor has it Cole and Lili were already hooking up and had some off the charts chemistry on set. By the time the first season was over Bughead had taken over the world. Lol. 

Long story short Kevin's endgame comment about Barchie in the pilot doesn't mean anything in the here and now. Not saying it will never happen but it's not written in blood because of what Kevin said. Betty and Jughead may not have referred to each other as endgame which thank jesus but they sure have said and done enough to put such a stupid term to shame. This last episode alone but you can also include the beanie moment, Betty being what he thought was his last phone call, committing crimes for each other, sleuthing kink, come on!

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9 minutes ago, MollyWebber said:

Well Kevin made the endgame comment about Betty and Archie in the pilot because the pilot was written with the intention of setting up the triangle. They didn't begin filming the rest of the season until after the show was picked up which was 5 to 6 mos later. By then they had changed direction to set up Bughead because rumor has it Cole and Lili were already hooking up and had some off the charts chemistry on set. By the time the first season was over Bughead had taken over the world. Lol. 

Long story short Kevin's endgame comment about Barchie in the pilot doesn't mean anything in the here and now. Not saying it will never happen but it's not written in blood because of what Kevin said. Betty and Jughead may not have referred to each other as endgame which thank jesus but they sure have said and done enough to put such a stupid term to shame. This last episode alone but you can also include the beanie moment, Betty being what he thought was his last phone call, committing crimes for each other, sleuthing kink, come on!

Teah I guess I’m wrong about the end game moment in the pilot, but I’ve mentioned all of Bughead having little moments,, That’s what I mean. I like those moments more than the use of the word end game so that’s what I was implying. I said the show either has to know what it’s doing or we, certain viewers are putting more thought into it. But in my post i stayed the show has definitely put Bughead moments to mean they are an end ship. Unless they aren’t thinking that and just putting them in to show what they are now. This is why it’s really hard to imagine shipping either character with anyone else right now. 

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It was funny for the first song, but wore out its welcome quickly. I lasted about fifteen minutes before I concluded that if anything important happened it would be a lot less painful to learn about it from the "Previously on Riverdale" teasers. I'm perfectly capable of enjoying a good musical, but this was not a good musical. And the original "Heathers?" Was mediocre film that was able to camouflage its mediocrity for one, maybe two viewings through a combination of good casting, overall quirkiness, and maybe four good jokes. It's not horrible. It's just very, very over-rated. This, however, was horrible.

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On 4/20/2019 at 11:23 AM, CletusMusashi said:

And the original "Heathers?" Was mediocre film that was able to camouflage its mediocrity for one, maybe two viewings through a combination of good casting, overall quirkiness, and maybe four good jokes. It's not horrible. It's just very, very over-rated.

Agree to disagree - this film was one of my favorites when I was a teenager and I still can remember almost line for line. Winona Ryder was perfect as Veronica and Christian Slater cemented his outsider status as JD. The commentary on cliques, peer pressure and the anointing sainthood upon death to complete assholes still resonates.

About the episode, while I loved a few of the songs (Beautiful, Candy Store, Dead Girl Walking and Seventeen) the flow of the show just wasn't working for me, especially the ending. I have sat through many, many concerts and musicals for kids and teenagers and the one thing that never happens is the parents just sit there and don't clap for their kids. Hell, most of them knew exactly what the musical was about so the material should not have been shocking and the closing number just had the kids preaching to love, not hate. There was nothing offensive or shocking about it.

This is offensive and shocking:

So, to recap - teenagers declaring that they will try and build a better world - normal and sane. Kindergartners performing Scarface as a school play - offensive and shocking.

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