S03.E17: R&B

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

A history of Beth and Randall through the ages.

Promo:

Original air date: 3/26/19

[Uuuugghh]

How is it equal if you have to give permission for a proposal? 

[BuckeyeLou]

Beth is saying "You're a Lot!" and "It's a Lot!" tonight...Randall's personality is just so over the top that he is a LOT to deal with.  Poor Beth needs a mental health break from him.  She loves him but Randall IS a LOT!

[meggonzo]

How does a first date end with one person saying don't call me again, and the other person goes home and tells his roommate this is the girl he's going to marry?! Gross. 

[Uuuugghh]

All these people are a lot! Idk how anyone deals with them!

[Ms Blue Jay]

Nachos are my favourite food as well.

[Armchair Critic]

Geesh young Randall, learn how to play a little hard to get. 🙂

No sympathy for Randall being too busy in Philly since he chose that even though he knew it wasn't good for his family. He needs to remember how he agreed with Beth they would be equals. I don't blame Beth for being upset with him.

I'm not saying he isn't a good guy, but Randall thinks he puts his family first when he actually puts himself first. Since he was the adopted one he was treated extra special (especially by his mom) and that's just how he thinks life is.

[WhosThatGirl]

Wow. I’m glad they acknowledged Randall and Beth’s comparisons to Jack and Rebecca but a lot of awful things were said in that fight. Both threw down some guantlets and hard truths that they might not be able to come back from.

[mtlchick]

So Beth shot him down after the first date and Randall was CONVINCED they were going to get married.

Then Randall wears her down with her proposal and she finally says yes over nachos.

Then Randall spots her trying to have a me day and sort of guilt trips her into coming home so they can watch Living Single.

If you had never watch an episode before tonight, you would wonder why Beth stayed with him. 

If you had watched the show from the start, you would wonder why Beth hasn't killed him yet and you would be rooting for her at her trial. 

"Between which of your anxiety attacks?"  I gasped out loud.  That may have been worse than the voice mail and that's saying a lot.

Next week! A finale that will still be draining no matter what!  

[Spartan Girl]

Oy, that was painful. 

I do think it was a pretty low blow of Beth to throw Randall's anxiety attacks in his face.

I did love the flashbacks to teen Kevin helping Randall ask Beth out. And the wedding. That was great.

[Laurie4H]

The episode was a little contrived.  I feel like Beth creates drama.  Randall has his issues but he is good person.  She acts as if she is abused

[Lady Calypso]

That wasn't bad. I liked seeing their relationship from beginning to current day. It really helped to see all of their big moments and their biggest fights. 

Beth definitely isn't wrong in Randall's subtle way into getting his way, and I believe that he had no idea what he was doing. Beth is still at fault for giving in, but she definitely was wrong in her last really hurtful comment to him about his anxiety attacks.

It goes to show that problems go both ways; it's usually not just one person at fault. 

[tennisgurl]

"Between which of your anxiety attacks?" Holy shit, Beth went for the fucking throat! I actually gasped out loud, that was so brutal, maybe even more than the voice mail, and that was REALLY brutal. 

On the lighter note, Kate and Kevin helping with Beth and Randall's vows was really funny and cute. 

[CleoCaesar]

This episode/entire show is so pro-Randall it is beyond tiresome. He’s been acting like an utter jackass all season and frankly this very episode. He’s over-the-top, smug, and selfish in practically every flashback. And in the present-day scene he even has the nerve to ask when he’s steamrolled Beth. Uh, how about moving your dying biological father into the house…fostering a kid…adopting a kid…buying an apartment building…running for councilman… SERIOUSLY, RANDALL?

But then with Beth’s “anxiety attacks” remark (which, yes, was a low-blow) he gets to be the victim. GAH. NO. STOP DOING THAT, SHOW. He gets to go off and sulk and it’s poor, poor Randall all over again. It’s infuriating.

Okay episode otherwise, I guess. I wish it had focused more on the present-day scenes instead of all the ones of young Randall being such a tool. Also, how eye-rollingly predictable that Randall manages to work in his adoption drama and the horror of Being Raised by White People™ into the first five minutes of his first date with Beth.

Their drama-filled college relationship of codependence, clinginess, over-the-top “romantic” gestures, and cheesy public proposal was basically my nightmare. More red flags than a Communist parade.

[SimoneS]

Honestly, I don't think that Beth and Randall have any problems that a good therapist couldn't help them figure out. Great acting though. And great casting of young Beth and Randall.

[Laurie4H]

Some of the dialogue is to “writers trying to be clever” like the nacho metaphor.  Who would really come up with a long analogy like that? 

[Guest]

I pretty much only cared about their current fight.

Her anxiety attack line may just be enough to help him recover from the voicemail. They’ve both said terrible things in anger so neither of them can blame the other completely.

[Ohiopirate02]

I know Beth got a low blow in, but Randall's gaslighting is not any better.  "Your revisionist history " because Beth airs her feelings and he doesn't like them?  Sorry Randall, Beth has her own truth that you need to listen to even if it doesn't jibe with what you want it to be.  O

[WhosThatGirl]

I mean Beth is Rebecca. Randall is Jack. If anything this episode proved that. The show is so Pro Jack even his mistakes Saint him and that was becoming very bothersome and to me they are doing the same with Beth. 

I remember  writing in these forums the night of the season 1 finale and reading that quite a few people were saying Rebecca was the worst ever for choosing to tour with that group over her family.  

I kind of wish Rebecca and Beth had more scenes together to explain this situation better to each other.

[Armchair Critic]

17 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Nachos are my favourite food as well.

I just put a plate of them in the microwave, this show made me hungry.

[ShadowFacts]

Geez Randall, driving all the way back to Philly?  Go in the basement to Kevin's old bed.  It was nice to see William for a bit, and young Randall, I could watch that kid all day.  I loved Beth's wedding dress, they both looked super happy.  All in all the episode didn't really flow and as others have indicated, some clunky writing.  

[LaJefaza]

One of the REALEST fights I have ever seen on TV, down to both parties being too jittery to be able to sleep properly afterwards. 

13 minutes ago, CleoCaesar said:

This episode/entire show is so pro-Randall it is beyond tiresome. He’s been acting like an utter jackass all season and frankly this very episode. He’s over-the-top, smug, and selfish in practically every flashback. And in the present-day scene he even has the nerve to ask when he’s steamrolled Beth. Uh, how about moving your dying biological father into the house…fostering a kid…adopting a kid…buying an apartment building…running for councilman… SERIOUSLY, RANDALL?

But then with Beth’s “anxiety attacks” remark (which, yes, was a low-blow) he gets to be the victim. GAH. NO. STOP DOING THAT, SHOW. He gets to go off and sulk and it’s poor, poor Randall all over again. It’s infuriating.

THIS RIGHT HERE. I mean Randall is no axe murderer, he's generally a good man, but boy do I wish he would climb down off that cross.

Edited March 27, 2019 by LaJefaza

[Neurochick]

Some of us like “over the top” romantic gestures.

What Beth said to Randall was nasty, but so was Randall’s voicemail.

[Guest]

I don’t think Randall is a bad guy, but I think he has an inflated view of himself and his abilities. He wants to save everyone/everything he cares about, but in doing so, he starts crushing/steamrolling those he should be closest to. 

[tennisgurl]

Really, Randall and Beth should be able to work this out, maybe with some couples counseling and after learning to admit to their own faults in the marriage. especially Randall, who I really dont think realizes what he has been doing at all, and is truly shocked by the idea that he hasn't been putting his family first, but himself. It looks like the seeds of these issues have been there the whole time. Randall is a LOT and just kind of goes where his muse takes him, and Beth kind of works around him and lets this issues simmer until they explode at seemingly random times. I dont think there is really a "bad guy" in all of this, although I am more on Beth's side as I think Randall's selfishness has just gotten worse and worse over the seasons, and I think if they both did some soul searching they could come back from this. 

Really, as awful as that anxiety comment that Beth made was, it might be something to put them more on an even kneel going forward. They both said awful things in anger, and if they admit what they really meant, they could still deal with this. 

I do think that Randall's parents, especially Rebecca, led to this attitude that Randall has that his ideas are always awesome and that everyone should go along with them, and that his problems are the most important of all the problems. And I get it. He was adopted, he was black in a white family in a mostly white community, he had anxiety, and generally had lots of issues with self esteem and acceptance. Jack and Rebecca knew all of that, and they kind of coddled him a bit, and gave him lots of attention to compensate for all of those things they couldn't change. So Randall just kind of grew up thinking that people would just drop everything when he was upset or had an idea, because thats what happened growing up. I doubt he has ever realized he does it, but he does, and I can totally get why its such a pain for Beth, especially as its only gotten worse since William died. He thinks that he is the smartest, best person ever, and that anything he does or says is golden. 

Edited March 27, 2019 by tennisgurl

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Geez Randall, driving all the way back to Philly?  Go in the basement to Kevin's old bed.  It was nice to see William for a bit, and young Randall, I could watch that kid all day.  I loved Beth's wedding dress, they both looked super happy.  All in all the episode didn't really flow and as others have indicated, some clunky writing.  

Yeah, it was very clunky. I didn't find the fighting as harsh as it could have been. Beth got to air out all of her grievances but it didn't seem like Randall had much to retort back with. All he had to say was "revisionist history, Beth!" and that's not a solid argument against Beth, so it did feel one sided. And the biggest issue is that Beth had been so underdeveloped until this season that they don't have many weaknesses of hers to pull from besides not being assertive and not speaking up much. 

I will say that I'm irrationally peeved at how Randall got to belittle her dreams via voicemail, Beth told him to sleep in Philly, and he raced back home to confront her. But when Beth shot at the jugular and said the very wrong thing about his anxiety attacks, that's when Randall allowed himself to storm out and leave. Again, I know it's irrational but it just proved that Randall was the one in control. Also, the fact that he wasted at least five hours out of 24 hours driving from Alpine to Philly to Alpine back to Philly. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

What Beth said to Randall was nasty, but so was Randall’s voicemail.

I look at her comment as nasty, but it was only being said in response to a voicemail where Randall dismissed her job as "teaching bored housewives to twirl."  So yeah, she shouldn't have said it, but it was at the end of a long line of Randall's garbage BS where he pretends not to have any idea as to how he always seems to get what he wants at the expense of everyone else.  I also kind of felt like it was a lazy way for the writers to make Beth and Randall "even" in terms of their behavior.   

[shouldbedancing]

I love teenage Randall but he is... a lot. The way he was all smiling and like "I'm gonna marry her" after Beth said she never wanted to see him again was creepy. And there was a major fail on the part of the writers. Why was Beth obsessed with nachos and Ginger Beer? Give her a Pittsburgh food obsession. Maybe she likes a greasy burger from the O or Primanti brothers sandwich or something more local and right down the street from Carnegie Melon.

[Armchair Critic]

2 minutes ago, shouldbedancing said:

Why was Beth obsessed with nachos and Ginger Beer? Give her a Pittsburgh food obsession.

So the story line would be something Randall could make easily at home so we could see he ate the best chips out of the nachos. 😉 But I get what you're saying, I would go for the Primanti Brothers.

[ShadowFacts]

Why the heck isn't Randall sworn in yet?  He's swamped with the work but he can't even be officially doing city business.  He could work from home until he's officially on the council, do whatever reading needs to be done to start to get up to speed. 

[BuckeyeLou]

Even as a young man, Randall was So over the top, like the whole 1st Date thing, he was going to write a check for the meal?!  And then taking his Mother along on their date at the Mini-Golf course!  Rebecca realized how awkward that was but she had coddled Randall his whole life.  I did like the scenes of their wedding...Beth looked beautiful. 

[Lady Calypso]

8 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Why the heck isn't Randall sworn in yet?  He's swamped with the work but he can't even be officially doing city business.  He could work from home until he's officially on the council, do whatever reading needs to be done to start to get up to speed. 

I'm still annoyed that they've screwed up the timeline in these two episodes alone. According to Kate, baby Jack has been in the hospital for six days. But according to all the other evidence, it seems like it's been weeks. Which is it, show?!?! Six days or a few weeks? 

[LoveLeigh]

I loved this episode, but it was so obvious to me that the writers think it is the actors' tour de force. It was like a setup for an Emmy grab. And that is OK. They ARE great actors, but for some reason (especially with the next episode being the last of the season) I feel like nothing has actually happened this season. 

1. Kate had her baby

2. Randall and Beth had a big fight

3. Kevin found Nicky and lost Nicky and began drinking

And now we wait until October 2019? 

[ShortyMac]

While Beth's comment about Randall's anxiety was low, it was true. Someone had to keep it together while he was spiraling.

[memememe76]

Loved the episode. While I can understand the frustration that nothing was really resolved, I loved knowing more about how the two met, what shows they like, etc. 

I guess I saw very little wrong with how young Randall behaved. And I think it is very nice that Randall saw his mom every Sunday. I will take that over all of the other shows where teens are constantly insulting their parents.

Anyone know anything about the school they attended? The name does not ring a bell to this Canadian. 

[Christina87]

25 minutes ago, shouldbedancing said:

I love teenage Randall but he is... a lot. The way he was all smiling and like "I'm gonna marry her" after Beth said she never wanted to see him again was creepy. And there was a major fail on the part of the writers. Why was Beth obsessed with nachos and Ginger Beer? Give her a Pittsburgh food obsession. Maybe she likes a greasy burger from the O or Primanti brothers sandwich or something more local and right down the street from Carnegie Melon.

It's so strange from a twenty-first century adult perspective, where a date is always a swipe away! I get that Randall was eighteen, and of course thought his crush was "the one," but after you've dated awhile, you go on enough so-so first dates (and great ones!) that don't go anywhere that it becomes normal, and  bad dates...well, there is no way you would consider going out again, much less proclaim you're going to marry the person! As an adult in 2019, you have hundreds of potentials dates at your fingertips, and I can't imagine being so certain a date was "the one" that I'm hung up on them after a terrible first date!

Sometimes there are glaring signs early on that you're wrong for someone. I'd imagine beth saying to never call her again was a big sign, as well as the smaller signs of her reluctance to commit, and the fact that they are both alphas. I'm glad that they have made it work, as no relationship is perfect, and it seems they've worked out well all things considered.

It just makes me wonder what would have happened if Randall had said, "you know, plenty of girls would love my romantic gesture! We're just obviously different in that way. No biggie; I'll ask out that cute girl in chemistry class next week! And maybe I'll take that 'don't overshare' advice to heart." I wonder if Randall and Beth both would be ended up with someone more suited to them if he hadn't been so persistent, and they'd both had a chance to date around to find a good fit. I'm absolutely not saying I don't like them as a couple, because I do, but it's interesting to see how they ended up together, because a lot of us would have walked away and never thought about it again!

[Ohmo]

What I got from this is that I think Randall and Beth shouldn't have married.  At all.  That was the major flaw in this episode.  We got to see that they were together, but not why they were together, and, based on this episode, I wonder why they chose each other.  To me, while they are both good people, this episode shows that they were ill-suited from the start.

As to the "a lot, I'm with Randall on this one.  i have a relative who is described that way, with that phrasing: "a lot."  This person knows that is what is often said as a description, and such a description is hurtful...because the implication is that something is wrong with my relative.  This person is also single, and although we haven't discussed it at length, I think the "a lot" description has something to do with it.

In terms of Randall and Beth, I think they were set up to fail from the first date.  He was awkward, but she seemed to want to "fix" him from the jump.  If this episode was supposed to be enjoyable, it didn't really work for me.  I didn't know why they were together and kept thinking that they shouldn't have been.

[LaJefaza]

50 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

 They both said awful things in anger, and if they admit what they really meant, they could still deal with this. 

I agree. It's not right, but sometimes people fight dirty.

What I find interesting, and VERY telling, are the different reactions after the 'bombs' were dropped throughout the night. Beth apologized immediately after her anxiety comment, of course validating Randall's peeved feelings and facilitating him departing in a self righteous huff. Randall, however, unless I missed it, has YET to apologize for insulting both Beth and her students. His response after she turned up at the dinner (meaning he had got his way) was to say "I went off, I wasn't my best self, I'd appreciate it if you deleted the message." Sir, WHERE is the apology?

And to deny he was steamrolling her, even when she had the receipts? Even when she listed out a mere handful of the many times she has bent over backwards to give him whatever the hell he was demanding time and time again? He just CANNOT stop trying to gaslight her. I don't think he can even help himself. He has been raised to believe he's the center of the universe and that everyone is here to make sure everything comes up Randall. He can't even see what he's doing wrong. 

I had to laugh at his parting shot: "I don't want to be in this house with you right now." Well good, because didn't she TELL you to sleep in Philly in the first place because she can't stand your face right now either? So now it's YOUR idea? Once again, boy BYE.

Edited March 27, 2019 by LaJefaza

[dcubed]

Bravo!  This episode provided an example of what happens when you ignore the signs of incompatibility hoping that the partner will change.  Having the same argument for 20 years?  How many people do you know that say the same thing?  I know many, including me.   Their fights seem very real to me -ugly but real.

Edited March 27, 2019 by dcubed

[AmandaPanda]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

Some of us like “over the top” romantic gestures.

But it was clear that Beth didn't. She had been telling him that from their very first date. And he had been ignoring her from their very first date. Even before my husband and I even talked about getting married, I told him that if anyone (whether it be him or another guy) ever proposed to me with a grand public gesture, I would tell them no, solely because I find things like that to be awkward and humiliating. A proposal should be about the two people and their relationship. Every single one of those proposals (except for the last one that Beth basically orchestrated) was about Randall and his need to go completely over the top. It had nothing to do with Beth. It was all about Randall.

The writers have now made all of these characters so thoroughly dislikable to me that I already decided I'm out after the season finale. The writers want me to see Beth in the wrong here? No, screw that. Randall has been silencing Beth for years. I'm not going to see that as being romantic. It's not romantic when Jack silences Rebecca. It's not when Randall does it to Beth or when Toby does it to Kate (or vice versa). 

[memememe76]

I don't see a problem with Randall's last proposal. He did it in the privacy of their own apartment. Going to a fancy restaurant is not particularly over the top. 

Not saying that they don't have problems but these are not issues that people can't overcome.

[freebie]

It's so fascinating to me that neither of the Pearson brothers recognize their own power. Sophie had to point out to Kevin that he never has to choose, and Beth had to point out to Randall that he always gets his way. What's disturbing is that neither seems to understand even now. Kevin's immediate conviction that a lifetime of Zoe was worth not having kids rang so false to me. If things run true to form, he'll get Zoe and kids because that's how it works for people who don't have to make choices.

And Randall's failure to hear Beth at all early on was not even remotely endearing. Neither one of these guys can hear the word "no" and process it's meaning. Maybe adult Randall will have more of a clue, but based on the flash forwards we've seen so far, I'm not counting on it. Ugh. This show is becoming a chore to watch. At this point, if they just showed Toby and Kate raising their little button to manhood and Rebecca and Miguel getting together (because I love Mandy Moore and because Young!Miguel = rowr!), I would be more into it. I honestly used to get teary-eyed at some point during every episode, but this stuff is just too uncomfortable any more. 

[AmandaPanda]

6 minutes ago, memememe76 said:

I don't see a problem with Randall's last proposal. He did it in the privacy of their own apartment. Going to a fancy restaurant is not particularly over the top. 

Not saying that they don't have problems but these are not issues that people can't overcome.

I guess the last proposal wasn't really over the top. It was more that Beth had told him she wasn't ready to get married and he kept asking her. It felt more like he was trying to wear her down than anything else. 

[pennben]

Randall is a (tm) “Nice Guy”. 

[lucindabelle]

It’s gotten to the point where I watch clips and read comments rather than sitting through the show. I watched the fight on twitter and thought Beth was way too harsh. “And you let me do it.” The Hell? You’re blaming HIM for your choice? And since I’m irritated that dance met nothing to Beth so far as we viewers knew until two episodes ago, I’m not convinced (she never watches it talks about it does anything else with it)...

his voicemail was angry and low. But her comment about his anxiety attacks suggested that she resents his weakness. And that’s... not just disrespecting a career choice. That’s unloving. That’s like saying you resent someone gaining weight or going bald. It’s much worse. Nobody sick would EVER want to feel a spouse was giving up life to be with them.

counseling would help...

but back to the show- I’ll watch at some point but I just don’t love this show anymore, and wouldn’t recommend it. The writing is contrived and unsurprising. I find the acting to go for the obvious too. It used to make me cry... I think perhaps it’s run out of steam 

[WhosThatGirl]

Also can I just say when Randall claimed he would not say something awful and horrible about Beth’s new career path(re like Jack did with Rebecca and the fight he witnessed) didn’t he in that voicemail? 

[ProudMary]

As it was their first child, that beautiful infant is supposed to be Tess but she looked JUST like Annie!

[Ohmo]

16 minutes ago, lucindabelle said:

It’s gotten to the point where I watch clips and read comments rather than sitting through the show. I watched the fight on twitter and thought Beth was way too harsh. “And you let me do it.” The Hell? You’re blaming HIM for your choice?

I don't think that she's blaming him for her choice.  I think she's blaming him for her mistake---the mistake that she made by marrying him.  It's easier for her to put everything on his being "a lot" instead of having to think about the fact that she's angry at herself.  There was that one line that she had about  not wanting to break in a new boyfriend after seven years and her reaction to the final proposal.  She just seemed to want to get it over with.    I think Randall didn't realize that they were ill-suited back then.  I believe that he genuinely fell in love, but I think Beth knew on some level that they were not a good match, even back then.  Her words and behaviors were very telling to me, and now we're seeing her anger at the fact that she didn't listen to herself.

[chabelisaywow]

Quote

I don’t think Randall is a bad guy, but I think he has an inflated view of himself and his abilities

lol Kate and Kevin 

[jmonique]

Full disclosure: Randall going OFF on Beth via voicemail when she's not there for him ONCE, then smiling and accepting her support through dinner instead of immediately taking her aside to apologize, THEN trying to get away with the voicemail, AND THEN DRAGGING HIS ASS BACK INTO THE HOUSE AND FORCING HER INTO A FIGHT when she flat out told him to take his sorry self back to Philly pissed me off at the end of the last episode.

In fact, I wrote off this episode, forgot it was airing until the last 10 minutes and turned in to watch a clearly backed-into-a-corner Beth lash out in response to Randall's gaslighting, and got to watch the man who's been steamrolling her for three years with his family melodrama act like the martyr yet again.

In short: Team Beth.