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Lisin

Dr. Joan Watson: She's a Lady!

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I thought I would absolutely hate the fact that Watson was a female, but I really don't mind it at all. I think Lucy Liu is doing a fabulous job here.

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I agree. She's great and is doing a really interesting take on the classic character. Her gender gives her dynamic with Holmes a totally different spin, along with the choice to make her originally his sober companion - I feel like that role gave her power over Holmes in the early run that helped temper the amount of abuse he could throw at her early on.

I am also really enjoying Joan's journey as she studies under Holmes, which if I recall is a departure from other Watsons in pop culture, who were there more to marvel at Holmes's brilliance versus contributing to the investigation.

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I am also really enjoying Joan's journey as she studies under Holmes, which if I recall is a departure from other Watsons in pop culture, who were there more to marvel at Holmes's brilliance versus contributing to the investigation.

Yes to this as well, I believe you're memory is correct and I love the fact that here Joan is learning and Sherlock is intentionally teaching her rather than just allowing her to be in his brilliance. It's a departure from other iterations (not all iterations mind you, I'm not throwing shade at BBC's Sherlock!) and I like it a lot. 

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Heh, I would never commit the sin of throwing shade at BBC's Sherlock. I'm fine with other readings of Watson, but I do like that the CBS version is taking an interesting new spin. Therefore, to me it's not a matter of which one is more "correct", it's that both the BBC and CBS versions can stand side-by-side, be enjoyable and both feel unique in their own ways.

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I agree, there's plenty of the Sherlock pie to go around, no one iteration needs to be correct. I also quite like that Johnny Lee Miller and Benedict Cumberbatch are apparently quite friendly. I like that the two versions of Sherlock like each other and respect the work the other is doing. It doesn't have to be one or the other, both are valid! 

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I remember reading that JLM spent a lot of time discussing the character with Cinnamon Toastencrunch before Elementary started.

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I remember reading that JLM spent a lot of time discussing the character with Cinnamon Toastencrunch before Elementary started.

I think I read the same thing. Also they're kind of familiar with playing the same character, they did that Jekyll and Hyde play a while ago where they switched rolls each night. Man, I wish I could see that!  

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Beyond how much I like Lucy Liu and Joan, too, I seriously covet that wardrobe they are putting her in. She's definitely a BE ME.

Edited by Bing
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Beyond how much I like Lucy Liu and Joan, too, I seriously covet that wardrobe they are putting her in. She's definitely a BE ME.

Another Bitten Kitten?

Yes, I love her wardrobe. It's not always to my style or body type, but Lucy Liu can wear clothes very well. I love the Joan's Fashion Show Tumblr.

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I'm shocked at how much I like Joan Watson. But, she makes sense. Why would Holmes develop a relationship, in canon or any other show, with someone who was dumb. Even in canon, he appreciated smart, capable women. And I just love Joan herself: her wit, her steadiness, her intelligence, her warmth. There are so few excellent women characters In tv/film that it's nice to see one. And she's not a badass in that she can kick your butt or seduce you and kick your butt. She's just a real person, who is smart and reserved and pretty awesome.

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Another Bitten Kitten?

Yes, I love her wardrobe. It's not always to my style or body type, but Lucy Liu can wear clothes very well. I love the Joan's Fashion Show Tumblr.

I also like her wardrobe but with one exception...The FRIGGING BOOTIES ...ALL THE TIME... and with EVERYTHING!!!!! 

It seems the only time she doesn't wear them is when she's barefoot or in pajamas.  To me they just cut her off at the ankles when paired with some of the great outfits she wears.

I like booties and have a few pairs myself but I don't wear them with every single outfit. They have to work with what I'm wearing.

Other than the ever present booties I like the show, I like the characters and I always look forward to the next episode.

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I also like her wardrobe but with one exception...The FRIGGING BOOTIES ...ALL THE TIME... and with EVERYTHING!!!!!

Hear, hear! The hoof-y look is doing Joan/Lucy no favours. I take it as a cautionary tale: If Lucy Liu looks bad in these boots, imagine what they could do to a mere mortal! [ominous musical cue]

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I'm on record as being extremely not interested in anything Lucy Liu does--or at least I was before this show.  I'd never liked her in anything before.  But the chemistry she has with JLM makes them both much more interesting.  

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This far in I STILL don't 'get' Joan Watson.

Her gender is something I can take or leave.  Inherently I thought it always presented a bit of a barrier in that Watson and Holmes are supposed to be "chums", and gender does contribute to that a bit.  The show then managed to make her gender irrelevant to the relationship, but mostly because it FURTHER confused the dynamic with this bizarre dynamic shift from keeper to student to pseudo-colleague.  

Joan isn't a bad character.  it's just the further we get from the beginning, the more it seems like she bears no real resemblance to Dr. John Watson at ALL.

In the end that (as well as many other differences) really makes this into a decent show about a couple of people who happen to have similar names to some people in a series of books people liked, with vaguely similar professional circumstances and details, and that's it.  Which is fine.  I just wish it had been clearer from the start that's what was all we were going to get.

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Lucy Liu can wear clothes very well. I love the Joan's Fashion Show Tumblr.

There's a Tumblr of the clothes?! Eeeeeee.

 

But I deeply dislike her with Mycroft. It feels like the London history was rewritten to get the new season off and rolling and to hell with the logic. (Also... this coupling is... not believable. I'll just put it that way.)

Edited by RabbitEars
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(Also... this coupling is... not believable. I'll just put it that way.)

I don't know, have you seen pictures of Lucy with her boyfriend? Lucy IRL doesn't seem averse to dating men way below her league in terms of looks, so I suppose the same thing could hold true for Joan.

 

A part of me feels obligated to say, "Right on, Lucy/Joan! Way to not be shallow!" But then I think how we hardly ever see the reverse, i.e. gorgeous man with not-so-gorgeous lady, and it peeves me. Plus... I am shallow. 

Edited by galax-arena
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I don't know, have you seen pictures of Lucy with her boyfriend? Lucy IRL doesn't seem averse to dating men way below her league in terms of looks, so I suppose the same thing could hold true for Joan.

 

A part of me feels obligated to say, "Right on, Lucy/Joan! Way to not be shallow!" But then I think how we hardly ever see the reverse, i.e. gorgeous man with not-so-gorgeous lady, and it peeves me. Plus... I am shallow. 

Actually, I have seen far more couples with the husband waaayyy hotter than the wife (as in she cleans up nice but nothing special there) than the opposite. They also show the husband being super in love with her in those cases as well. In fact, when I was younger, I always wished to be ugly so I would be loved for one thing that would not degrade with time (intelligence and personality as opposed to beauty).

 

Anyways, I really like Joan Watson. I think she is consistent, reasonable and intelligent. I just really like her character, don't think about the source material and her being a woman doesn't colour my appreciation of the character. I often forget that it's an adaptation from ACD's books. In this case I think it's a good thing. It doesn't bother me and I am just glad they did not have her get together with Sherlock.

NOW, let's talk about her with Mycroft.... Why, show? Why? It's not that bad but it just makes no sense to me. I get that Sherlock should not get a say in her relationships but it's awkward dating a friend's sibling in any situation. Although the funny childish reactions are entertaining to. It feels a little "my mum is getting back out there and I'm not ready". It also reminded me of House wanting to share custody of Wilson with his girlfriend.

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I appreciate they haven't played the woman in jeopardy yet. I am only 10 eps in and no guns or hand to hand for Joan. I wouldn't mind her having a taser however.

The formula nature of the show hurts the natural flow of the characters. This show is such a procedural in many ways. I want Joan to break out a bit more than just helping the plot along.

On a shallow note I do wish they would ease up on her make-up, especially her false eyelashes in the breakfast scenes. It feels like CBS network formula to have her so done up all the time.

Edited by jeansheridan

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I think I read the same thing. Also they're kind of familiar with playing the same character, they did that Jekyll and Hyde play a while ago where they switched rolls each night. Man, I wish I could see that!  

Are you referring to "Frankenstein" by any chance because I can't recall these two ever doing Jekyl/Hyde?

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Are you referring to "Frankenstein" by any chance because I can't recall these two ever doing Jekyl/Hyde?

Yup. Because I'm not so smart :P But yes, Frankenstein.

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To be honest, I kind of get the logic behind the confusion, two people changing identities, also, classical story from the same era... :) All is right. :)

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Okay almost done with Season One. I sort of love Lucy Liu as Joan. Her energy is perfect. I love her learning the detective business. It is fun to see someone learn a new profession. Those are the bits I really enjoy. I like seeing him teach her.

The plots are still formula but Miller and Liu have great buddy chemistry. She might be one of my favorite characters on TV right now.

And their "partner" conversation was great. Miller has a weird awkward vulnerability with her. She matters but he can't figure out why. And I love that it isn't romantic. And that like most Watsons she has a robust romantic past.

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Joan's outfits were the bomb, but the ankle boots and was that tennis shoes?  did her no favors. Her calves were really bulked up. Last season's were cuter and less minimalist to me.

Personally, I don't think ankle boots/"booties" flatter very many people.  You have to have really long, shapely legs to pull off that look, and worn with dresses or skirts, they can make even the most gorgeous woman look stumpy.  Ankle boots are a trend, however, and another year or two and they will be out of fashion again, and people will go back to wearing them more appropriately with pants. YMMV, of course.

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Has anyone heard of actresses other than Liu who were considered for the Watson role?

 

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On 5/23/2020 at 10:40 AM, rejnel said:

Has anyone heard of actresses other than Liu who were considered for the Watson role?

 

I haven't.  I think they went for Lui first and foremost and would have gone for another actress if they couldn't have gotten her.

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