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Season 2 Discussion

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I though Tracy would have gone out by herrself, she is smaller than Gordo and would have been able to wrap herself up in two layers of Duct Tape. Still, I respect the show for killing them off in such a beautiful, herioc way. They both had such great arcs this season. Gordo getting back into shape and Tracy going from an entitled brat to a brave astronaut who died in her (ex) husnads arms.

The HandShake that stops WWIII was more than a bit of an eye-roll, but good on Poole for ignoring orders. Speaking of which, Sally Ride is so going to be charged with space crime unless Ed decides to quietly not mention the whole thing. (And the Black Box, if there is one, would go missing)

I am cancelling my Apple+ subscription for now as Dickenson and FAM are the only two Apple shows I watch. I will re-subscribe when one of these shows comes back.

Mars! Hope Bill Clinton is POTUS in Season Three, and that Ellen can finally come out if that's what she wants.

4 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

So next season is moving to the 90s and Mars. Let's go! (On reddit they're already referencing connections to The Expanse, lol.)

The Expanse and FAM could occupy the same Universe.

Edited by marinw
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1 hour ago, marinw said:

Speaking of which, Sally Ride is so going to be charged with space crime unless Ed decides to quietly not mention the whole thing. (And the Black Box, if there is one, would go missing)

I think both nations are going to agree to forget that any of this happened. We know that they concocted a cover story for the shootdown of the Seadragon and I wouldn't be surprised if the story of Jamestown was changed into a micrometeorite causing a explosive decompression that tragically killed a Marine (that death was brutal) and punctured the reactor cooling system.

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Well I just cried unabashedly for the final 10 minutes. I was sure Tracy and Gordo were gonna die so when they got back to the station, closed the door and Houston reported they’d repressurized I was happily surprised, all “Yay!” and stopped worrying about them while I focused on Ride being done kinda dirty and the handshake and whatnot. When they opened the galley and showed them like that, I gasped (you got me, show) and burst into tears. They went out together though. But their poor kids. 😭

Edited by MichaelaRae
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Gordo and Tracy saved Jamestown and Danielle saved the world! Badasses all.

I was so sad about Gordo and Tracy but then ending with boots on Mars in 1995, wow! Can’t wait to see what happens in season 3.

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8 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

So are the Russians sending Sergei in to honeytrap Margo? She's going to be a tough cookie to crack.

I think Margo is so awesome that she is the one that is going to trap Sergei.

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1 hour ago, marinw said:

So what happened to the Defector?

It looked to me like when the Russians were ordered to stand down and leave Jamestown they left him there.

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I am so intriqued about season 3! Does the Berlin Wall fall in the FAM Verse? How does that effect the Soviet/Russian space program? Does everyone work together to get to Mars? 

 

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I think the Karen storyline from this season shows one of the flaws of them doing these big jumps between seasons. You can tell the writers have storylines they want to do for the characters, but also with space, so they're making these jumps to make the stories with space possible, and then forcing in the character storylines. 

It was evident in season 1 that they were having Karen go on a progression from being very black and white and rigid in her thinking and behaviors to seeing more shades of grey. Then, when Shane died, it's a catalyst to have this storyline showing how much she has changed from Ed, and how she's also spiraling and in pain. But by jumping 10 years in the future, and telling the story now is why I think it feels so unnatural and forced. Because it is. 

Nothing about the beginning of the season showed us that Karen and Ed were on these different paths or changed but hadn't realized it yet. They made a point of showing us that Ed knows Karen smokes pot, and appears amused by it, not a hint of any annoyance around it. They have Karen owning the bar, and he's supportive and they have family dinners there. They took these efforts to show they had both worked through Shane's death, and then suddenly in the middle of the season, they start telling us about them being separated after his death, and Karen now can't stand the idea of him going back to space, though she told him to do it. Their storyline was honestly backwards. It was like the last half of the season for them should've been the beginning, and then what they showed us in the first half should've been done in the back half. 

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I felt so bad for Jimmy and Danny, and I thought, well Ed and Karen would take them under their wing but then as far Danny goes:  awkward!   And they do have a very wealthy step-father.   I’m going to guess Danny follows in his parents’ footsteps.

 

Edited by jcin617
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I will do a Slow Clap if Mars-Related research through the rest of the 80's and 90's results in a breakthrough cure for Glaucoma.

Edited by marinw
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At the end of season two, Danny was already in the Naval Academy, the season basically was in the summer of 1983 or 1984. Jimmy would be in high school. 

Had the US maintained its level of real spending after Apollo, it very easily could have established a lunar base and headed towards Mars. These were things that were being discuss in our timeline in the early 1970s.

Apollo 11 did come close to being a disaster, though it was kept secret at the time. In fact, Armstrong and Aldrin had to maneuver away from the planned landing spot full of rocks to avoid a crash landing. They landed the Eagle basically on fumes although the fuel for lunar takeoff wasn’t affected.

One of the fun things is watching how historical events and people in our real timeline did or didn’t appear in the FAM timeline. Brezhnev and Gorbachev don’t appear at all. It’s also surprising that John Glenn apparently was never elected as a US Senator. (Or at least not yet)

So that’s a fun part of watching FAM.

Edited by theschnauzers · Reason: Clarity
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What a great and intense season finale!!  I figured that Gordo would die saving Tracy but I did not see both of them dying.   

I am very confused by the timeline for Kelly Baldwin.  Was she an orphan for many years in Vietnam before coming to America?  How could her father not know about her and how coincidental that they both end up in Houston

 

 

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22 hours ago, Zonk said:

I'm sad that this doesn't have its own sub forum. Now I have to catch up before I can actively discuss the episodes without being spoiled...

I have put in a request for a full forum.  Originally it wasn't clear that the show needed one but there does seem to be an uptick in viewers.  Stay tuned...

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On 2/22/2021 at 5:54 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

It was funny that the big royal wedding was Charles marrying Camilla. How would that have worked out if she was nearing the tail end of her child-bearing years? Charles would have still needed to produce an heir (and a spare). Maybe in the alternate universe she was younger, hah hah.

There was also news about the first test tube baby in the news reel. I guess reproductive technology got advanced by the space program by a few decades and thus Camilla being older wasn't seen as that much of a problem anymore. At least that would be my guess.

On 2/22/2021 at 5:54 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

That solar storm thing was scary. Couldn't that happen today? Technology is probably better built now to sustain solar activity though.

Yes and not really. If a massive flare hits us directly, a lot of the satelites will be kaputt. It's just very unlikely since those flares are really rare and the earth is tiny, but it's not impossible.

Edited by Zonk
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3 hours ago, Goldfish77 said:

I am very confused by the timeline for Kelly Baldwin.  Was she an orphan for many years in Vietnam before coming to America?  How could her father not know about her and how coincidental that they both end up in Houston

Yes, Kelly likely grew up in an orphanage. She’s approximately Shane’s age/a year or two younger than Danny. She was old enough to be helping the younger children when the Baldwins first saw her.

The paperwork Kelly was sent said that her father was in the army. Perhaps her other relatives were already killed in the war and he wouldn’t have been in a position to care for her. 

She told Karen her birth father had a restaurant in Arlington—that’s about a four and a half hour drive from Houston. So coincidence that he didn’t end up in California, but most Vietnamese immigrants did end up in CA and TX. 

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6 hours ago, ahisma said:

Yes, Kelly likely grew up in an orphanage. She’s approximately Shane’s age/a year or two younger than Danny. She was old enough to be helping the younger children when the Baldwins first saw her.

The paperwork Kelly was sent said that her father was in the army. Perhaps her other relatives were already killed in the war and he wouldn’t have been in a position to care for her. 

She told Karen her birth father had a restaurant in Arlington—that’s about a four and a half hour drive from Houston. So coincidence that he didn’t end up in California, but most Vietnamese immigrants did end up in CA and TX. 

thanks  that makes sense

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2x03:

I call bullshit on the cosmonaut bugging the base. Why would he have a bug on him while on a normal assignment? He couldn't have known that the base would be empty at any point beforehand. There clearly wasn't enough time to get to his base, get a bug (or even manufacture one, since why would you have a bug on the moon), come back and plant it. Not with how slow travel even with a rover is, how long the airlocks take, etc.

 

2x05:

So at no point during construction did they ever vent the base? Because otherwise those ants couldn't have survived.

Also you can't get earlugs on that moon base? That's like no weight or size and would probably help a lot with the astronauts mental health.

 

2x06:

Ah come on. Am I really to believe that the sovjets would welcome the astronauts that way to their country? Like they wouldn't also make a great media spectical out of it to show what "gracious hosts" they are.

But I guess we can't show the sovjets how we'd show the americans. Have to make show that they are depicted as eeeeevil.

Edit: Or did that supposedly take place after the plane was shot down in 2x07? If so they really didn't make that clear. You shouldn't put shock value before good story telling...

Edited by Zonk

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I am so tempted to make a long post about all the nitpicks that this finale episode has, but of course they can be handwaved by the fact that this all happen in an alternate universe where the John Lennon is still alive. Therefore, I will just have one nitpick. 

Why were there only three caskets in the burial at Arlington? I understand Gordo, Tracy, and Vance. But there was also an astronaut at Ops/Comm who got spaced out by decompression when the Soviets first breached.

While it looks noble in the narrative of the episode, I do not understand Ed's motivation in shooting the Sea Dragon. As far as he knew, the Soviets attacked Jamestown and they had all malicious intent to destroy the Sea Dragon. Again, for all he knew, the Sea Dragon was essential for the survival of Jamestown and his fellow astronauts there.

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4 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

Again, for all he knew, the Sea Dragon was essential for the survival of Jamestown and his fellow astronauts there.

Jamestown needs more help than a seadragon at this point, The base will need extensive repairs, and most of the astros have probably been evacuated down to Earth for the time being.

If the show goes on to the 2010's and 2020's someone will point out that that the name "Jamestown" could be problomatic.

Edited by marinw

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2 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

Why were there only three caskets in the burial at Arlington? I understand Gordo, Tracy, and Vance. But there was also an astronaut at Ops/Comm who got spaced out by decompression when the Soviets first breached.

It's possible that he was a civilian NASA employee and was not eligible for that honor. But that brings up the question of why Tracy was buried at Arlington? That's strictly reserved for veterans or active duty servicemembers. She was a civilian, right? And if she was, she wasn't eligible for the Medal of Honor either.

2 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

While it looks noble in the narrative of the episode, I do not understand Ed's motivation in shooting the Sea Dragon. As far as he knew, the Soviets attacked Jamestown and they had all malicious intent to destroy the Sea Dragon. Again, for all he knew, the Sea Dragon was essential for the survival of Jamestown and his fellow astronauts there.

It's a variation of the "shoot the hostage" trope. By removing the Sea Dragon from the picture, he removed the primary reason for confrontation. He saw that as a better outcome (in large part because of Sally urging him to find another way) than the Russians shooting down the craft and the ensuing dogfight.

In addition, we found out that the Soviets were partially correct. The US was attempting to bring nuclear weapons to the moon.  It's probable that Sea Dragon was carrying the nuclear material the military needed in order to start producing plutonium at Jamestown. (Although Ed wouldn't know that.)

Michael Collins, Apollo 11 astronaut, dies at 90

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Okay, I do like this show. I do wish they'd focus less on the family drama, especially of the Baldwins. But overall, really fun show. Still I have some nitpicks, I have to air:

- I know, showing 1/6 gravity is hard to film on earth. But couldn't they at least have tried? Outside they sometimes do (but more often then not not even there). But as soon as they are in Jamestown, it's like they are back on earth.

- On the same token, how hard is it to actually implement a two second delay in communication? That's a lot more than you would think and should be very noticeable.

-  I said it about the small Jamestown base already, but it goes double for the big one. That base does not look properly shielded from solar radiation, The walls are too thin, there are too many big windows. Everybody there is dying from cancer in a few years, if not directly from radiation poisoning after a few moths up there. No matter what those dosimeters supposedly say.

- So that new space shuttle has nuclear engines? How? Does it have an open reactor and the drive spews radioactive waste everywhere? Through how much Uranium does it chew to get adequat thrust? In space there is no air. You actually have to output something to get an equal but opposite reaction. Regarding the original shuttles. They look an awfull lot like space shuttles in our world. And they are taking those to the moon? In our world they certainly weren't built for that. Maybe possible, but improbable.

- The soldiers/astronauts and soldiers/cosmonauts weren't tought at least rudimentary russian / english? Buh humbug. That whole incident hinging on them not speaking those languages and needing translation cards is ridiculous.  Also that a highly trained soldier who knows what a diplomatic incident it would cause, would fire before they actually saw a rifle seems really far fetched, too. It's not like the russians could quick-draw in those suits. There would have been plenty of time to shoot after seeing the rifle.

In that episode was also the most cringe worthy expository dialouge. Regarding the cosmonaut burning: "We think the bullet made a spark. Like our suits yours contain pure oxygen." Um yeah, I'm pretty sure the russian cosmonaut knows what their suits contain...

 

Regarding the last episode of season two, I won't even go into the political stuff that might only be explained if Reagan already had full blown dementia at that point.

But I really want to know how Tracy and Gordo actually died, except from bad writing, where drama and faking out the viewer is more important than a modicum of realism. They made it back to the airlock, pressed the switch to repreassurize and took off their masks. So at that point they were still concious. Worst that should have happened in that short amount of time it would have taken to repreassurize is that they would have fallen unconcious. But they should have woken up again shortly after. But it doesn't even seem like that happened, since their eyes were still open. So how again did they die?

Would it have been so hard to have them make it into the airlock but pass out before they could close the hatch or press the button? That would have been just as dramatic and tragic, if not more so. But noooo, the writers had to be clever and try and trick the audience. Which didn't work and all they achieved with me was massive annoyence when I should have been mourning those characters.

 

3 hours ago, xaxat said:

In addition, we found out that the Soviets were partially correct. The US was attempting to bring nuclear weapons to the moon.  It's probable that Sea Dragon was carrying the nuclear material the military needed in order to start producing plutonium at Jamestown. (Although Ed wouldn't know that.)

The second reactor was already running. It wasn't hooked up to the second cooling loop yet, was close to melting down and exploding. Which means the sovjets were right, but too late. The nuclear material was already up there.

Edited by Zonk
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9 hours ago, marinw said:

Jamestown needs more help than a seadragon at this point, The base will need extensive repairs, and most of the astros have probably been evacuated down to Earth for the time being.

Ed did not know that when he shot Sea Dragon, though.

7 hours ago, xaxat said:

It's possible that he was a civilian NASA employee and was not eligible for that honor. But that brings up the question of why Tracy was buried at Arlington? That's strictly reserved for veterans or active duty servicemembers. She was a civilian, right? And if she was, she wasn't eligible for the Medal of Honor either.

This is one of the things that I put as 'the show happens in alternate reality'. Maybe the military rules and protocols there differ than IRL. Case in point, Ed wore his civilian astronaut pin on his Navy uniform. IRL, Naval Officers who have gone to space would wear an astronaut device on their Naval Aviator or NFO wings instead.

3 hours ago, Zonk said:

- So that new space shuttle has nuclear engines? How? Does it have an open reactor and the drive spews radioactive waste everywhere? Through how much Uranium does it chew to get adequat thrust? In space there is no air. You actually have to output something to get an equal but opposite reaction. Regarding the original shuttles. They look an awfull lot like space shuttles in our world. And they are taking those to the moon? In our world they certainly weren't built for that. Maybe possible, but improbable.

It is called Nuclear Thermal Rocket. It is still in design and research and not yet in production. Basically, the nuclear reactor is a closed loop with no radioactive materials exhaust.

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13 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

It is called Nuclear Thermal Rocket. It is still in design and research and not yet in production. Basically, the nuclear reactor is a closed loop with no radioactive materials exhaust.

So the propellent is liquid hydrogen and the nuclear reactor is just used to heat it up. Calling that a "nuclear powered shuttle" is missleading at best. A show about space exploration and rapid technological advancement maybe should have explained the propulsion system a little. But I guess we had to make time for Baldwin family drama...

Also "still in design and research" is imo going a little far. I'd call it "cold war wet dream that will never happen". Just because for a time people thought throwing nuclear fission reactors into everything was a good idea, doesn't mean it is.

But thanks for explaining what they actually meant. 😃

Edited by Zonk

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On 4/19/2021 at 9:32 PM, CarpeFelis said:

True, but the option of living openly with Pam is gone, since Pam led her to believe she’s still in love with her other girlfriend. Unless, of course, Larry fesses up that he has a pretty good idea why Pam did this...

That nobody ever sees through the "Go away I don't love you anymore!"-thing is really annoying to me. It is such a bad trope.

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22 hours ago, Zonk said:

 Calling that a "nuclear powered shuttle" is missleading at best.

 I'd call it "cold war wet dream that will never happen". Just because for a time people

The main power plant of the shuttle Pathfinder is a nuclear reactor. If it is not a 'nuclear powered shuttle', then what it is?

I would not be too fast as to call it 'will never happen'. NASA Mars Design Reference Architecture calls for nuclear thermal engine as the propulsion for Mars-bound spacecraft.

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On 4/28/2021 at 11:06 AM, marinw said:

If the show goes on to the 2010's and 2020's someone will point out that that the name "Jamestown" could be problomatic.

Would that society with intensive space activities and technological advancement that come along with it go through the similar period of social justice movement? For example, the first black astronaut IRL to go to space went in 1983. In the show, Poole landed on the moon sometime in 1974.

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1 hour ago, TV Anonymous said:

The main power plant of the shuttle Pathfinder is a nuclear reactor. If it is not a 'nuclear powered shuttle', then what it is?

Fine, call it nuclear powered shuttle. But maybe on a show about the advances in space flight they should have made it clear, that it's actually liquid hydrogen as a propellant that is heated rapidly to generate thrust (and that it's heated by nuclear fission is kinda incidental). I mean what else are we here for? Certainly not for reheated Baldwin family drama, that seemed to be resolved like a decade ago.

1 hour ago, TV Anonymous said:

I would not be too fast as to call it 'will never happen'. NASA Mars Design Reference Architecture calls for nuclear thermal engine as the propulsion for Mars-bound spacecraft.

There are so many problems with nuclear fission reactors on a space ship. The big one being how to dissipate heat. There is nowhere for it to go (except infrared radiation but that is very inefficient). When you want to stop, you need that reactor to cool. Really the only way is to dump your hydrogen and the heat with it. You can probably use some of it to slow down, but it gets less efficient the colder the reactor gets. So you'd need massive hydrogen tanks. At least on such a small shuttle, for such short flights I have to call "buh humbug". Maybe on massive ships for a long flight to Mars, it would make sense.

NASA has a lot of smart people who could probably figure something out with enough funding, but I kinda doubt we'll see thermo nuclear engines before we don't have small fusion reactors, as those can be turned off instantly. On the plus side, with high temp super conductors going into mass production and becoming cheaper and cheaper, that might be soon-ish.

Edited by Zonk

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On 4/30/2021 at 9:47 AM, Zonk said:

Fine, call it nuclear powered shuttle. But maybe on a show about the advances in space flight they should have made it clear, that it's actually liquid hydrogen as a propellant that is heated rapidly to generate thrust (and that it's heated by nuclear fission is kinda incidental).

I think it fits with how we have historically talked about space exploration. No one (outside of astronautical engineers) talks about the propellants as powering rockets, they talk about the engines. Apollo's legendary F1, the space shuttles' main engine and solid rocket boosters, SpaceX Raptor etc.

But regardless of the engineering terms, I think the reference to the Pathfinder as being nuclear powered serves an in important  narrative purpose. It indicates to viewers, regardless of technical knowledge, that Pathfinder is next generation. Not only better than Buran, but better than the space shuttle that we are familiar with. 

That's why the difference how the show portrays gravity in Jamestown and on the surface of the moon does not bother me. It serves as dramatic shorthand that Jamestown is a place where it is safe for humans to live, while the surface of the moon is hostile alien environment.

 

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Keep in mind that as we’re discussing Mars, experiments on the newest rover and helicopter are demonstrating that Oxygen can be extracted on the Martian surface, we known there’s evidence of H2O underneath the surface, the clouds are water clouds, btw, and breaking down Martian source water will also provide hydrogen. And that’s in our timeline.

The closing scene in season two shows that Man landed on Mae in 1994. So clearly in the FAM timeline these Robles were somehow solved. It just an strange coincidence that Provenance and Ingenuity landed on Mars as we reached the end oof season two. 

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On 4/26/2021 at 12:52 PM, Zonk said:

There was also news about the first test tube baby in the news reel. I guess reproductive technology got advanced by the space program by a few decades and thus Camilla being older wasn't seen as that much of a problem anymore. At least that would be my guess.

IRL the first test tube baby, Louise Brown, was born in 1978, so no big advance from reality.

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So I started on 27 May and finished on 16 June. Not my fastest binge, but a respectable pace. When this show is on form, it's great. When it's focussing on the human drama back on Earth, I'm somewhat less enthused.

However, it has reignited my love for somewhat hard SF. Give me proper astrophysics. While I love SW and Trek, I wish they were a few shades harder. B5 and BSG proved you can do full widescreen space opera while still giving us Newtonian physics.

Speaking of which, this is a proto-space opera, right? Ancestors of Zefram Cochrane or Solomon Epstein could walk onto the screen at any time and I wouldn't quibble for a second.

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1 hour ago, Anduin said:

B5 and BSG proved you can do full widescreen space opera while still giving us Newtonian physics.

Have you watched The Expanse?

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2 hours ago, marinw said:

Have you watched The Expanse?

No. I've read some of the books and will watch sooner or later. But I've seen a few clips, and I'm glad they went with proper physics. Or at least enough to pass. Not like I'm an expert. :)

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49 minutes ago, Anduin said:

No. I've read some of the books and will watch sooner or later. But I've seen a few clips, and I'm glad they went with proper physics. Or at least enough to pass. Not like I'm an expert. :)

The Expanse is far and away the best futuristic science fiction show when it comes to realism.  Everyone knows Star Trek will never happen.  But our future in space could very well turn out to be like The Expanse.

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Just finished "binging" this show over the past 3-4 weeks. Both seasons took really dark turns towards the end, though in very different ways. I didn't think the show would kill off both Gordo and Tracy at the same time.

Having Karen sleep with Danny was a really bad call, IMO. Not only is he the son of her husband's best friend, she also pretty much raised him from when Tracy started astronaut training. To me this reads more like an icky Woody Allen/Soon-Yi Previn situation than anything romantic. And telling Ed that she cheated on him as he was about to go on a dangerous mission - that she encouraged him to take up again - was extremely selfish. I understand that grief can change people, but it seems like Karen is actively trying to destroy her family.

Finally, I hated the Aleida storyline. I don't care how difficult her childhood was or how brilliant of an engineer she's supposed to be, she's needlessly cruel and has an enormous ego. Was all of that tedious exposition just so she could discover Gordo trying to communicate over an old system? Any of the minor characters could have done the same thing.

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I'm three episodes into season 2 so avoiding reading most of the posts here.  The first season was thrilling.  I loved Molly, who was like the astronaut version of Peppermint Patty.  Season 2 has started with me hating Tracy, who has morphed into a female version of Gordo and is a total narcissist.  Some things I don't quite buy, like Ed putting Gordo on a moon mission, knowing he's a depressed out-of-shape drunk with head issues that manifest themselves on missions.  Yes, I get that he is trying to turn things around for his friend, but how about something where he can't get himself and his crew killed?  Alida ended up homeless at the end of season 1, so how did she manage to get to college and become an engineer?  And why is she in a run-down trailer park?  I get that she was fired for about the fifth time, but while she was working she would have been living in much better digs than that with the kind of money she was making.  I also can't believe the bug the Russians planted went undetected for nine whole years.  Surely at some point someone would have climbed a ladder to replace a light bulb and found it.  And were they already calling those boxy computers they were using "laptops" in 1983?  They were more like PCs with pop-up screens.  The first time I started noticing what resembled laptops and were called laptops was in the late 80s.  Still hooked on this show, though.

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10 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Alida ended up homeless at the end of season 1, so how did she manage to get to college and become an engineer?  And why is she in a run-down trailer park?  I get that she was fired for about the fifth time, but while she was working she would have been living in much better digs than that with the kind of money she was making.  I also can't believe the bug the Russians planted went undetected for nine whole years.  Surely at some point someone would have climbed a ladder to replace a light bulb and found it.  And were they already calling those boxy computers they were using "laptops" in 1983?  They were more like PCs with pop-up screens.  The first time I started noticing what resembled laptops and were called laptops was in the late 80s.  Still hooked on this show, though.

My feeling is that her fortunes were up and down. When S2 starts, they were very much down.

As for the laptops, technology matured and grew faster than our timeline. If we don't get Solomon Epstein in season seven, I'm guessing maybe humans will sublime instead, and the show actually in the Culture universe instead of the Expanse.

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12 hours ago, Anduin said:

As for the laptops, technology matured and grew faster than our timeline. If we don't get Solomon Epstein in season seven, I'm guessing maybe humans will sublime instead, and the show actually in the Culture universe instead of the Expanse.

I was referring to the term "laptop,"  The actual hardware they were using was consistent with the bulky personal computers that existed in 1983.  It was about another five years before laptops became  more streamlined and really looked like laptops.  Those things looked like doorstops.

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The design of the device was akin to what was actually being used as portable devices, not connected to a mainframe computer in the early 19800s. (I know as I used a KayPro brand device, using an early version of WordStar and DOS 2.0 to keyboard and edit a manuscript in the summer of 1982.)

Within two years we were seeing desktop computer in the market place, but anything looking like notebooks weren’t really in the marketplace until the end of the 1990s.

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According to Wikipedia: "While the terms laptop and notebook are used interchangeably today, there is some question as to the original etymology and specificity of either term—the term laptop appears to have been coined in the early 1980s to describe a mobile computer which could be used on one's lap, and to distinguish these devices from earlier and much heavier, portable computers (informally called "luggables"). The term "notebook" appears to have gained currency somewhat later as manufacturers started producing even smaller portable devices, further reducing their weight and size and incorporating a display roughly the size of A4 paper;[3] these were marketed as notebooks to distinguish them from bulkier mainstream or desktop replacement laptops."

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On 4/28/2021 at 2:01 PM, Zonk said:

But I really want to know how Tracy and Gordo actually died, except from bad writing, where drama and faking out the viewer is more important than a modicum of realism. They made it back to the airlock, pressed the switch to repreassurize and took off their masks. So at that point they were still concious. Worst that should have happened in that short amount of time it would have taken to repreassurize is that they would have fallen unconcious. But they should have woken up again shortly after. But it doesn't even seem like that happened, since their eyes were still open. So how again did they die?

They were outside in 200 degrees F for over 20 seconds, which is a long time to be in that temperature, and on top of that they had duct tape on their skin.  Where there were gaps in the tape their skin was bulging and blood vessels were popping.  They did a quick cut of what looked like blood spraying out from Tracy, and showed both of their eyes bleeding.  They made it back in time before collapsing, but the severe trauma was too much for them, and they were laying there with internal bleeding and hot tape stock to their skin.  Maybe if someone was right there to give them artificial respiration they would have made it, but they couldn't jump start their lungs on their own.  I have no way of saying if that is an accurate depiction of what would happen if you stuck someone in the vacuum of space for 20 seconds wrapped up in duct tape, but the 15 second rule is real.  At 15 seconds your lungs rupture if there is any air in them.  It's not like on Earth where you can hold your breath for a minute, you have to expel all the air out of you like they said in that one scene, so from the first second you are starting to suffocate.

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200° on the moon is not the same as it is on earth. There is no air. The only heat you get is directly from the suns rays. Yes exposed skin will burn, the rest will take forever to heat up.

Why would they have internal bleeding?

The ruptures on the skin would be pretty minor and the blood only "spraying" because no preassure, not a problem once they are back inside.

What severe trauma?

Nobody needs to jump start your lungs. Once you fall unconcious you can't stop yourself from breathing anymore. Your body will do it on it's own.

Do you have a source for that 15 second rule? Pretty sure your lungs rupture almost immediatly, if there is too much air in them (not any, a little air can safely expand). They made sure to breathe out for that reason. Of course that means you have a lot less time before you pass out, because you don't have any reserve air in your lungs. Maybe that is the 15 seconds you were thinking about? But that doesn't matter since they made it back inside and preassurised the airlock. If they passed out at that point, their bodies would just start breathing on their own.

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Putting my response in the newly created a science thread where we can discuss these types of things. 

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On 7/13/2021 at 4:34 PM, Zonk said:

200° on the moon is not the same as it is on earth. There is no air. The only heat you get is directly from the suns rays. Yes exposed skin will burn, the rest will take forever to heat up.

Why would they have internal bleeding?

The ruptures on the skin would be pretty minor and the blood only "spraying" because no preassure, not a problem once they are back inside.

What severe trauma?

Nobody needs to jump start your lungs. Once you fall unconcious you can't stop yourself from breathing anymore. Your body will do it on it's own.

Do you have a source for that 15 second rule? Pretty sure your lungs rupture almost immediatly, if there is too much air in them (not any, a little air can safely expand). They made sure to breathe out for that reason. Of course that means you have a lot less time before you pass out, because you don't have any reserve air in your lungs. Maybe that is the 15 seconds you were thinking about? But that doesn't matter since they made it back inside and preassurised the airlock. If they passed out at that point, their bodies would just start breathing on their own.

The 15 second rule can be googled easily.  I'm basing it on what is being depicted on the show, not actual science.  They depict internal bleeding and trauma.  From what I have read, in a vacuum your circulatory system will actually be fine, nothing is going to rupture.  So your body isn't going to start springing bloody leaks.  But you are going to have serious issues if you have any air in your lungs.  Moisture in your mouth can start boiling and vaporizing, though that part doesn't sound very life-threatening just uncomfortable.  They made it back, sure, but did they re-pressurize?  They were passing out and Gordo closed the door.  Tracy simply collapsed.  The other astronauts went in there wearing their suits I think.

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On 7/16/2021 at 1:38 AM, Dobian said:

The 15 second rule can be googled easily. 

Then what are you arguing? That they should have died long before they reached the airlock, because that we could agree on.

On 7/16/2021 at 1:38 AM, Dobian said:

I'm basing it on what is being depicted on the show, not actual science. 

Then why did you bring up the 15 second rule?

On 7/16/2021 at 1:38 AM, Dobian said:

They depict internal bleeding and trauma. 

They do not. How would you even see internal bleeding? That is an overinterpretation on your part.

On 7/16/2021 at 1:38 AM, Dobian said:

From what I have read, in a vacuum your circulatory system will actually be fine, nothing is going to rupture.  So your body isn't going to start springing bloody leaks. 

What I got was that exposed skin was blistering and rupturing due to the vacume and the direct sun beams. It looked impressive, due to the vacume and how the blood floated away, but it wasn't actually that much and there was no internal bleeding.

On 7/16/2021 at 1:38 AM, Dobian said:

They made it back, sure, but did they re-pressurize? 

Yes, otherwise I wouldn't be complaining.

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1 hour ago, Zonk said:

Then what are you arguing? That they should have died long before they reached the airlock, because that we could agree on.

Then why did you bring up the 15 second rule?

They do not. How would you even see internal bleeding? That is an overinterpretation on your part.

What I got was that exposed skin was blistering and rupturing due to the vacume and the direct sun beams. It looked impressive, due to the vacume and how the blood floated away, but it wasn't actually that much and there was no internal bleeding.

Yes, otherwise I wouldn't be complaining.

They were supposed to die before they reached the airlock, like five seconds before.  They made it so it was an aberration.  The show depicted their trauma being too much to recover from without immediate assistance.  Take it up with the show.  I don't write the show.

Because they repeatedly brought up the 15 second rule in the episode...

They were not only bleeding out of orifices like their eyes abut also skin rupturing and blood spraying out, so not an over-interpretation that they were bleeding internally.

The amount of blood sprayed did not look like simply a blister had popped, it looked like something out of Scanners.  Again, the show's decision to depict it like this.

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Please keep interpretations of what happened on-screen respectful. No one has to justify what they see to other posters. 

I'm leaving the last couple of comments but it might be time to move on from the 15 second rule.

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