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S05.E01: Chapter Eighty-Two

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Interesting! When and where did you read that, Simba?

Sounds awful to me that Jane would feel attracted to Rafael while married to Michael.  Again, I see no rhyme or reason to R’s appeal for Jane, other than the biological factor. I agree with Jennie.. Jane would have been a huge flake. And she may still prove to be one! 

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19 minutes ago, BAH said:

Interesting! When and where did you read that, Simba?

Sounds awful to me that Jane would feel attracted to Rafael while married to Michael.  Again, I see no rhyme or reason to R’s appeal for Jane, other than the biological factor. I agree with Jennie.. Jane would have been a huge flake. And she may still prove to be one! 

It was after Michael died in S3. Jennie said it in one of her interviews. 

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I guess I'm in the minority because Michael lost me in Season 1 when he hid Petra's affair so that Jane would give up the baby. The moment outside the ultrasound room (second episode of the series) when Michael began bargaining with Petra I was done. He then followed it up by insisting she quit her job, with seniority and health insurance in her first trimester of pregnancy, because he was uncomfortable with the situation. Jane's feelings were completely ignored and I just wanted her to get away from him ASAP because it seemed extremely manipulative to me. Honestly, I did not need to see her with Rafael at that time, just not with Michael anymore.

My feelings towards Michael never really changed over the years and I didn't have the anger when he died that a lot of my fellow watchers did. It was sad but I watch the show for Jane and I was impressed with the way they handled her being widowed and moving on with her life. Speaking from experience, it is a difficult thing to do and I thought they did it justice. She never forgot Michael and the love they shared but she also realized that she had to create a new future for herself and she did.

Did Michael deserve to be kidnapped and tortured - absolutely not and I have never nor would I ever say he did. I just find myself focused on Jane and her feelings in the situation. I like that she mentioned Mateo not seeing him but Mateo has no memories of Michael - he was not even two years old when Michael died so he would be aware of the concept of Michael and that he had a stepdad but that's it. Also, Mateo looks completely different then when Michael last saw him so I doubt he would be the one to trigger Michael's memory. I do agree with Jane, Michael does not need to meet Mateo at this time.

Sorry, watched this episode a few times and I still think we could get a miracle pregnancy so Jane can carry on the line of strong women in each generation. Jane was eating like crazy, Jason even made a comment about her wolfing down the sandwich, and her clothes were getting tight which could be shorthand for pregnancy. After all, this is a telenovela, not This Is Us.

Did they ever tell us what kind of cancer Rafael had? Even if it was testicular, as long as he still has at least one testes he could still get Jane pregnant. I'm just saying...

Sorry for the rambling monologue - just channeling my inner Jane 🙂

Edited by cmahorror
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according to tood vanderwerff @ vox we should all buckle our seatbelts:

"To say literally anything about the first few episodes of the final season of Jane the Virgin (The CW, Wednesdays at 9 pm Eastern) would be spoiling a pretty big plot twist."

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I won’t invalidate those points about Michael, cmahorror.  Michael was a royal prick when he found out about Jane’s pregnancy.  He did shady, manipulative, and immature things as you say. He did manage to own up to and/or atone for those actions, if I recall correctly. 

Admittedly, I just don’t like Rafael and it’s not even logical— the way we simply don’t like or resonate with some people.  I’ve wondered if my dislike stems partly from my utter indifference to Baldoni’s acting.  But mostly I think I just fell Terribly for Michael, who reminds me of my husband when I married him, and for Brett Dier’s interpretation of him.

I  do also like and admire how Jane put her life back together, and believe she SHOULD stay with Rafael, for her AND for Mateo. 

Jennie Urman (is that her last name?) has said that not everyone will Iike this season, but I will still watch it.  I do hope Jason/Michael gets something of a just ending with some true happiness and a chance to rebuild the way Jane did. 

I’m already preparing myself for him and Jane not to be together so it doesn’t feel like a stab in the gut as much as it has.

You talk about being a widow—there is no  tragedy that I fear more.   I can’t imagine, and don’t want to, though when Michael “died” I cried awfully hard in part because I imagined that horror happening to me. 

My being so attached to my husband —also imperfect, also doer of prickish things in the past—the way Jane was to Michael makes it super difficult for me to embrace another guy for her.

LOL-We all just see things via our own very personal and subjective Lens, don’t we? 

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9 hours ago, cmahorror said:

I guess I'm in the minority because Michael lost me in Season 1 when he hid Petra's affair so that Jane would give up the baby. The moment outside the ultrasound room (second episode of the series) when Michael began bargaining with Petra I was done.

Didn't they even mention that in this episode when Michael/Jason was asking about his past with Petra? Or Jane said something about working together to cover up a crime and the only thing I could think of was that he hid her involvement with a murdered man. I was kind of shocked because I felt that in the second season they kind of forgot why Jane and Michael split and hadn't mentioned it since that I can remember. Sure, Jane had a crush on Rafael but she wasn't going to break up with Michael until she learned he was lying to her about the future potential mother of her child.

Edited by Irlandesa

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On 3/30/2019 at 1:04 PM, cmahorror said:

I guess I'm in the minority because Michael lost me in Season 1 when he hid Petra's affair so that Jane would give up the baby. The moment outside the ultrasound room (second episode of the series) when Michael began bargaining with Petra I was done. He then followed it up by insisting she quit her job, with seniority and health insurance in her first trimester of pregnancy, because he was uncomfortable with the situation. Jane's feelings were completely ignored and I just wanted her to get away from him ASAP because it seemed extremely manipulative to me. Honestly, I did not need to see her with Rafael at that time, just not with Michael anymore.

My feelings towards Michael never really changed over the years and I didn't have the anger when he died that a lot of my fellow watchers did. It was sad but I watch the show for Jane and I was impressed with the way they handled her being widowed and moving on with her life. Speaking from experience, it is a difficult thing to do and I thought they did it justice. She never forgot Michael and the love they shared but she also realized that she had to create a new future for herself and she did.

Did Michael deserve to be kidnapped and tortured - absolutely not and I have never nor would I ever say he did. I just find myself focused on Jane and her feelings in the situation. I like that she mentioned Mateo not seeing him but Mateo has no memories of Michael - he was not even two years old when Michael died so he would be aware of the concept of Michael and that he had a stepdad but that's it. Also, Mateo looks completely different then when Michael last saw him so I doubt he would be the one to trigger Michael's memory. I do agree with Jane, Michael does not need to meet Mateo at this time.

Sorry, watched this episode a few times and I still think we could get a miracle pregnancy so Jane can carry on the line of strong women in each generation. Jane was eating like crazy, Jason even made a comment about her wolfing down the sandwich, and her clothes were getting tight which could be shorthand for pregnancy. After all, this is a telenovela, not This Is Us.

Did they ever tell us what kind of cancer Rafael had? Even if it was testicular, as long as he still has at least one testes he could still get Jane pregnant. I'm just saying...

Sorry for the rambling monologue - just channeling my inner Jane 🙂

Michael is my least favorite character on the show. He's so boring. I found him more realistic in S1 than the whole S2 and half of S3. Notice he's the only character who never got a backstory. We seen flashbacks/backstory of all the other characters pre Jane. Xo, Alba, Rogelio, Rafael, Luisa, Petra, Rose. We know a lot about them. He was either a cop or Jane's boyfriend. I think even Brett joked about it. The story about him and his brother stealing cars in their youth was a throw away line. 

Edited by Simba122504 · Reason: Typo

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1 minute ago, Simba122504 said:

Michael is my least favorite character on the show. He's so boring. I found him more realistic in S1 than the whole S2 and half of S3. Notice he's the only character who never got a backstory. When seen flashbacks/backstory of all the other characters pre Jane. Xo, Alba, Rogelio, Rafael, Luisa, Petra, Rose. We know a lot about them. He was either a cop or Jane's boyfriend. I think even Brett joked about it. The story about him and his brother stealing cars in their youth was a throw away line. 

Ditto! And because IMO he went to very boring right from very annoying and shady, I can't get it out of my mind that he's one of those too nice guys who keep everything dark bottled up and you never know when some of it will pop up. This kind of suits, or at least suited, Jane, as she tries/tried to fix everyone so that everything around her could be perfect, and pre-Jason Michael seemed to try too hard to be perfect. But that's her fragile comfort zone that is always one step from exploding in a very messy way. Rafael, who in Season 4 grew to not only lie his darkness on the table but without being ashamed of it or getting stuck in it, just seems like a much better partner for her. 

That being said, I'm less annoyed by Michael's return than I thought I'd be, I enjoyed the episode. Like some others here, though, I don't look forward to more Rose/Luisa. On a more positive note, I missed Petra so much. It was cute when she asked the police to stop JR from leaving. 

Also, it's true that the horror of what Michael went through was pretty much ignored, but it seems to me that it's kind of postponed because there's... well, no one to feel for. Of course, there's Michael/Jason, but he doesn't remember it and atm, isn't haunted by it. So, the sympathy could mostly be directed at the memory of Michael; but Jane and others already put a lot of energy into that in the past, even though it was for other reasons that turned out not to be accurate. And at the moment, there are more tangible things to deal with, too many of them, so everyone started by focusing on them, on people who are hurting at present. 

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8 hours ago, pinkglove said:

Ditto! And because IMO he went to very boring right from very annoying and shady, I can't get it out of my mind that he's one of those too nice guys who keep everything dark bottled up and you never know when some of it will pop up. This kind of suits, or at least suited, Jane, as she tries/tried to fix everyone so that everything around her could be perfect, and pre-Jason Michael seemed to try too hard to be perfect. But that's her fragile comfort zone that is always one step from exploding in a very messy way. Rafael, who in Season 4 grew to not only lie his darkness on the table but without being ashamed of it or getting stuck in it, just seems like a much better partner for her. 

That being said, I'm less annoyed by Michael's return than I thought I'd be, I enjoyed the episode. Like some others here, though, I don't look forward to more Rose/Luisa. On a more positive note, I missed Petra so much. It was cute when she asked the police to stop JR from leaving. 

Also, it's true that the horror of what Michael went through was pretty much ignored, but it seems to me that it's kind of postponed because there's... well, no one to feel for. Of course, there's Michael/Jason, but he doesn't remember it and atm, isn't haunted by it. So, the sympathy could mostly be directed at the memory of Michael; but Jane and others already put a lot of energy into that in the past, even though it was for other reasons that turned out not to be accurate. And at the moment, there are more tangible things to deal with, too many of them, so everyone started by focusing on them, on people who are hurting at present. 

I actually find Michael/Jason hilarious. lol More entertaining than original receipt Michael. I'll give the credit to Brett's acting. 

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Cracked up at Milos hiding in the bear suit. Not into JR - I hope that Petra finds someone that she doesn't have to keep running after.

Not a big fan of Michael or Jason. Rafael breaking down in Xo's arms was heartbreaking as was his assist to Jane at Michael's funeral. 

I have missed this show. 

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As a viewer I feel a bit like Jane does, I suppose. I love the Jane/Michael relationship. I was so sad when they killed him, I grieved, then I stopped watching and moved on to other shows. I just had to see a promo online with the reveal from last season (darn Facebook) that drew me back. 

Now I feel like I have been set up for disappointment. I have always held out delusional hope that Jane and Rafael are not end game despite all evidence that they probably are. I just don't see how this will end well for Michael. He doesn't get his memories back and lives a lie for the rest of his life. Or he does get them back only to find out that by no fault of his own, the life he used to have was ripped away from him and he has to move on alone. 

Also I may be a heartless person, but I don't feel bad at all for Rafael. And honestly it is mostly because I have never been a fan of his or his relationship with Jane. Nothing about it has ever felt organic and has basically all been driven by the writing wanting them to be together because they share a child. Regardless of what happens, he will always be Jane's second choice in my eyes. Its totally a personal bias, I know, but that's how I feel. 

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Its interesting to see people's different pov's on Michael, Jane, and Rafael respectively.  For me I never thought that Jane was going to end up with Michael not once.  The had a very safe, best friend type energy that was so boring to me compared to the relationship she had with Rafael.  The fact that she met Rafael first and the fact that she got pregnant with Rafael's baby seemed to cement that there was something there. 

Simba and Pinkglove touched on some issues I also had with Michael in the beginning.  Everything was about him and his inconvenience instead of Jane and how this was affecting her life.  This show does a phenomenal job of growing its characters.  I could accept that Jane and Rafael weren't quite ready to be together in the earlier seasons and I grew to appreciate her love for Michael and their relationship.  But always with the idea that it wasn't going to last somehow and that turned out to be true.  I think Michael's character stuck around a touch longer than he was supposed to because Brett Dier was so loved by the cast and crew on the show and that's to his credit.  I wasn't terribly upset when Michael died because it had been foreshadowed and the storytelling that came after it for Jane was so strong that it made the show so much better.  It changed the characters for the better.

I will say that season one or even season three Rafael was a very different character than he is now.  And if you stopped watching the show after Michael "died" it's easy to write him off but his character put in the work to get where he is now.  Everything Rafael did for Jane in the finale and in this premiere is a testament to that growth.  

I still can't see Jane and Michael getting back together or being end game at this point.  I think that Jane died with Michael 1.0.  

Edited by blugirlami21
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I'm waiting to watch for a few episodes.  I still expect an upcoming reveal that shows Rose actually manipulated the DNA results.  Anyone who's watched Days of Our Lives off and on since infancy can tell you villains always get their hands on the results before the good guys do.  

Edited by Phebemarie · Reason: Words Words Words
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Jane was accidentally inseminated, how does that prove something was there?

Boring or not, I’ve always felt for Michael because, despite his own shady behavior, he was put in an impossible situation, which Rafael didn’t make any easier for him. Now, it’s just one thing after another. I doubt his storyline is going to wrap up in a way that I’m content with.

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1 hour ago, Nanrad said:

Jane was accidentally inseminated, how does that prove something was there?

Exactly. Because of Luisa and her mixed up romantic relationships. If not for Catholic guilt, her grandmother and the fact that Rafael was unable to have children, Habe could have easily had an abortion. 

Her life was interrupted because of that one accident and she has spent years after dealing with the results of what happened. Luckily, Jane loves Mateo and being his mother, and she was able to marry Michael as she had wanted prior to the insemination and later fall in love with Rafael. 

But none of that was fate or preordained. Jane made those choices with a clear head and she was happier for those choices.

Still hate the way this is being written and am unmoved by what Rafael is feeling as he still getting everything that he wants including having Jane tell that she wishes that Michael doesn't cone back because she wants to be with Rafael.

And I certain Michael had stumbled onto whatever that number means and her torturing him was so he would forget that.

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So Jane the Virgin season 5 has been on Netflix for a few weeks now and I haven't watched it yet, which is very strange. From season 1 to 3.7 I used to watch it the next day on a stream as I was living in Spain and then back in ireland, then I came across spoilers for 3.10 and from then on just read recaps but I watched series 3 and 4 as soon as they came on Netflix. I missed Michael, didn't enjoy it as much, but I still enjoyed the show. I never really warmed to Rafael but I had come round to the idea that he was endgame. As a first reaction I was happy to see Michael pop up at the end of season 4, but the more I thought about it the more I was wary. Of course in real life you'd be happy that a person was alive rather than dead but since it's a telenovela the only reason he was coming back was to undo everything that had gone before. And having read all the recaps and comments it doesn't sound like I'm wrong. To get Michael with Rafael they had to kill Michael. Which was disappointing, but at least we'd had their wedding, a little bit of happiness to hold on to. Did they have to bring him back to kill all of that? So I guess I'm just wondering whether I should watch this or leave it or maybe come back to it in ten years? 

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On 9/14/2019 at 10:28 AM, cailinoBAC said:

Did they have to bring him back to kill all of that?

Jane/Rafael was always the endgame, and if Michael didn't "die", Jane would eventually cheat or get close to Rafael while she was married to him. I'd think Michael/Jane fans appreciated Jenny Urman's consideration to not make Jane into a bad guy there.

Obviously, Michael being back from the dead is an obstacle that exists exclusively to prove that Jane and Rafael are forever. The same way Michael and Jane getting married was an obstacle for Jane/Rafael not getting together in the middle of the show.

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