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S05.E17: Time Bomb

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Nora decided in the hospital that she was gonna come clean to Barry. Cecile felt that Nora wanted to tell them something. Sherloque came in and reconfirmed Nora was about to tell them. He should've waited to see what would happen. He kept on talking. That's my issue. He didn't let her get a word in.

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I had no idea that Barry locking up Nora in the pipeline and Sherloque revealing her secret generated lot of debate and controversy on social media and various Internet sites. The show has got to be pleased. 

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13 hours ago, RobertDeSneero said:

If I were a writer on the show, scenes like that are why Sherloque would probably be the supporting character I would find the most fun to write for.

I guess I'm not the only one who likes Sherloque.  I really hope he doesn't end up being some version of Eobard Thawne though, because I just can't go back to Tom Cavanaugh whispering all his lines, I just can't. I can't.

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3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I had no idea that Barry locking up Nora in the pipeline and Sherloque revealing her secret generated lot of debate and controversy on social media and various Internet sites. The show has got to be pleased. 

What's this about now?  What's the controversy?

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8 minutes ago, rmontro said:

What's this about now?  What's the controversy?

The same thing that we have been discussing here, just more vicious. It isn't a lot, but a few people hate Barry or think he is a terrible father for putting Nora in the pipeline without hearing her side and then some people hate Sherloque for revealing Nora's secret in front of Team Flash instead of letting her tell them herself. If you check out SpoilerTV, you'll will see that the episode got an unusual number of "awful" votes. I am surprised that this turned out to be so big.

Edited by SimoneS
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I mean, I knew the Thawne reveal was coming, and of course Barry was going to be upset. I didn't have a prediction about what he would do when he found out, but I figured it might be something rash. I was surprised that putting Nora in the Pipeline was the first thing he did -- but it still seems reasonable to me. Harsh, but fair; especially considering that it's Thawne, his mortal enemy, and he doesn't know how far the manipulation goes.

If the show had to have another hiatus, I think it was a fairly good place to stop.

-----

Another nitpick: At the end they say Vickie and her family are safe because they're going into federal protection and getting new identities; BUT that's not how Gracada found her in the first place. Didn't she use her gizmo to trace the dark matter blah blah blah from the crime scene evidence? She could do that again.

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It was okay. I do feel like they should have done this storyline quite a few weeks ago though and not now when it’s the eleventh hour.  The last episode would have been great as a midseason cliffhanger. Have the first half of the season trying to defeat Cicada and VICTORY! Team Flash succeeds. Only for a second Cidcada to show up. Wtf? (It’s good, right?)

100% did not notice that Caitlin was missing until she showed up at the end there. Same thing happened with Ralph (whom I’ve definitely come around on) when he was gone for a couple of episodes. This show could really trim some fat in terms of characters. 

Also, adding to my hate of having TC portray this version of Thawne, I reallly felt like his Sherloque accent was creeping in during that opener. Just me?

Edited by Brinny · Reason: I so rarely comment on Caitlin that I spelled her name wrong. D’oh.
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20 hours ago, SimoneS said:

but a few people hate Barry or think he is a terrible father for putting Nora in the pipeline without hearing her side

Earlier in the season he had explained to Nora why he hated Thawne, and she--named after Barry's murdered mother--kept working with him.  I am with Barry on this, she can cool her heels in the Pipeline for a couple of days. 

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On 3/22/2019 at 11:33 AM, Brinny said:

Also, adding to my hate of having TC portray this version of Thawne, I reallly felt like his Sherloque accent was creeping in during that opener. Just me?

This has been TC's worse season. Up until his Nora reveal, Sherloque has been the most annoying character, worse than Ralph in season four which says a lot. I also don't know what possessed them to make him a private investigator when they already have Iris, Ralph, Joe, and Barry who can take on that role. I don't believe the rumors that TC going any where and it seems like he has a lot of say in the characters he creates, but I hope that the new showrunner sees the horror that is this season and reigns him in next season.

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On 3/20/2019 at 10:19 AM, SimoneS said:

I hope we get a scene of Barry and Iris admitting that subconsciously they knew something was off with Nora. They have been dumbed down to make Nora's story work. There were red flags that they ignored including the danger to the timeline.

The thing is, they even had Iris be suspicious of Sherloque in this very episode and before, but... they didn't they do anything with that. I don't know why they couldn't let Iris or even any other Team member be part of this subplot. (Well, I know why - Tom C. needs stuff to do since they won't get rid of him.)
 

On 3/22/2019 at 3:31 PM, Cekrypton1 said:

Earlier in the season he had explained to Nora why he hated Thawne, and she--named after Barry's murdered mother--kept working with him.  I am with Barry on this, she can cool her heels in the Pipeline for a couple of days. 

Plus, we all know she's not going to be in that cell for long. A day? At most.

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It's taken me a while to sort my mind on some of the things that happened in this episode. I might change my mind as I think further on things, but for now:

-I thought this was a very good episode. I thought the tension flowed well from scene to scene and I liked the music (random, but I noticed it) and it holds up on repeat viewing

- Locking Nora up in the pipeline leaves me with mixed feelings. When I think about it out of context it doesn't really sit well with me. Barry locking his daughter up out of anger doesn't sit well with me.

In context however it made sense to me (and made other reasons stand more in the forefront than anger). While I think Sherloque could have waited a little longer since Nora was clearly going to say something, I can understand he was impatient to share the big discovery and it's something they needed to know. However he did give the information in a mean way imo, I don't mean the timing, but the way he painted it saying Nora was working with thawne for thawne's purpose. So that he could change the timeline for his purposes. That may be how it shakes out, but it's not what her goal is in working with him. I don't know if her journal states her real purpose is saving Barry, but even from the few journal entries we could see it's clear that her intentions were not some malicious plot to change the timeline for some evil Thawne plan. 

So based on the way it was delivered + Nora not denying it or telling them the real reason while she had a change, there's no way the group can now what her intentions are so I can understand why Barry put her in the pipeline. Frankly, I wish he'd sometimes do this with actual villains, lol. I'm thinking about that time when they had Zoom without speed and instead of immediately speeding him into the pipeline Barry decided to talk to him. So overall mixed feelings as I think about it.

-I wish there was a little more Iris in this. The focus on the whole lying to, despite the previews mentioning both Barry and Iris, was mostly on Barry. Even the last part and the way they zoomed in was very Barry centered. And I do understand that, since Barry is most affected by the Thawne revelation, but there were other ways they could have worked Iris more into it. Barry and Nora's conversation about keeping secrets bringing walls and how keeping secrets means you're preventing people from making choices with full knowledge (something like that, I don't remember his exact words) brought to mind 2 Iris connections:

 1 -Iris and Barry season 1: Barry alluded to it, but it would have been better if he had directly mentioned Iris, or even if Iris and Nora had that conversation about how Barry kept being the Flash from her. They could have also used this to tie the A and B plot together since with Cisco and Camilla, Iris would be able to speak from the one being kept out of the loop's perspective. (even though I do agree with comments that it's much too soon to tell Camilla)

2 -Future Iris keeping the fact that Nora had powers and that Barry was the flash from Nora. I don't know exactly how they could have worked that in, but with the theme of lying because you think you're protecting and it being such a big issue early on I think it could have been used, maybe even without bringing an entirely new metahuman plot into it. They could have also mentioned Joe lying to Iris about what happened to her mother. Since family is such a big part of this season and with Nora's secret looming it would have been a good time to take a look at all the lying that has happened in the west and allen and the west-allen family and the instances would be closer emotionally to all the characters and Nora.

-As for them forgiving Nora fast. I go back and forth on how long it will take. Part of me thinks they'll forgive her at the end of the next episode, but it might just be that will just be when they let her out and then it takes another ep or two to fully win their forgiveness. Just because they're working together again doesn't necessarily mean that everything is ok.

As for how long I want it to be? idk, idk. Since it's been such a large part of the back half of the season and what Thawne did to Barry and his mom it would feel wrong to just jump over Nora working with him without exploring it, but I don't need the forgiveness to be dragged out imo. I think once Barry learns it was to save him it will help with how he looks at it. (and it wouldn't surprise me actually if at some point the team also works with Thawne (very reluctantly) to defeat a bigger threat). But i go back and forth on this too, even as I'm writing this I'm thinking about whether or not I'm giving this enough weight.

Though, this is the same team that offered Savitar a place among them not even 24 hours after he'd killed their friend and after he had terrorized them (and especially Iris) the entire season.  The team that worked with Amunet Black because they felt it was needed to catch Devoe and have Barry comment on her having good in her afterwards. The team that offered the mechanic a place in the team (i mean after they defeated Devoe) after she had been involved in the murder of more than a handful of metas (and that was before she was drugged) and then let her walk with only her word that she would use her skills to help others and make up for what she had done. If they could get past that, I think for Barry and Iris' daughter trying to save Barry through terrible methods, 1-2 eps of being mad fits.

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1 hour ago, RedVitC said:

Though, this is the same team that offered Savitar a place among them not even 24 hours after he'd killed their friend and after he had terrorized them (and especially Iris) the entire season.  The team that worked with Amunet Black because they felt it was needed to catch Devoe and have Barry comment on her having good in her afterwards. The team that offered the mechanic a place in the team (i mean after they defeated Devoe) after she had been involved in the murder of more than a handful of metas (and that was before she was drugged) and then let her walk with only her word that she would use her skills to help others and make up for what she had done. If they could get past that, I think for Barry and Iris' daughter trying to save Barry through terrible methods, 1-2 eps of being mad fits.

This is also the team that's working with Killer Frost, who tried to murder them all, took Iris to her death (in one time line), and tried to take Iris to die in the second time line, but, unknowningly, took HR instead. So, if they could get past that, they can get past anything Nora has done.

Edited by adora721

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So wait, per this episode Eobard actually WAS helping Nora which seems supported by him being out of time and telling her her only option was to come clean and appeal to Barry for help?  And then THIS is when the show has Barry refuse to listen to even an explanation and just lock her up?  After he's all about how families can cope with the truth and when she was trying to tell him the truth?    Are they trying to make Barry seem like a bigger hypocrite?  

Also, Sherlouque (sp?) was an incredible dick to not even give her a chance to speak once he let her know he knew what she was hiding.  If he had been so convinced she was too evil to be trusted to even began an explanation, then why had he been seconds away from leaving her alone while he went off to get a drink?  Was he just that egotistical that he had to prove he had figured her out ahead of time by spilling it in the worst possible manner?

On a separate topic, I'm really over this pod Cisco that suddenly hates his powers and his life.   It really feels like they are building up to him taking the cure and leaving the show.  I get why they'd do that if the actor wanted to leave the show.  It's either remove his powers or kill him since if he was just supposed to be elsewhere, he could too easily pop back to help if they needed it and thus this would eliminate a plot hole in the future but it feels like a HUGE disservice to the enthusiastic dude we first met that loved everything about the superhero life.  This dude filled with self loathing isn't Cisco and I really don't know where it came from.  

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On 3/19/2019 at 9:16 PM, Lantern7 said:

Also, I'm thinking about hardcore fans trying to sync Nora's 2049 with the 2040 seen in Arrow. That must be a hobby for masochists.

What really threw me was Grace's line about Meta in her timeline being left to freely increase when in the LoT and Arrow futures (and thus we had assumed for Flash as well given Nora being chipped) that Meta's were hunted or locked up or on vigilante lists.  So I guess I'm now hoping for Grace's better future?  Lol.  

On 3/19/2019 at 9:57 PM, BeautifulFlower said:

I don't agree with locking Nora up in the pipeline. She deserves consequences for her lies, but not that.

I get Barry's knee jerk reaction but I still think he was wrong to not listen to anything she said.  And sure, maybe he wan't ready but he also snatched the opportunity in that moment away from Iris and anyone that had wanted to hear her out.  THey could try talking to her in the pipeline but there's no guarantee they'd hear the same thing or if they were trying to gauge if she was telling the truth, the extra time Barry would be giving Nora to come up with a story or a game face snatched their ability to judge for themselves. 

Also, they have Cecile.  She could have verified if Nora was telling the truth.  So not even listening to her side of the story or explanation is dumb.  

On 3/20/2019 at 5:52 AM, ursula said:

Barry's reaction at the end convinces me that he is the one who eventually chips Nora, and Iris allowed Nora to blame her to protect her idealized memories of her father. 

It was never suppressing Nora's powers as a kid that was questionable, good reasons could exist.  It was never telling her about them ever even long after she was an adult.  I guess Nora is just lucky they didn't just give her the cure.  

On 3/20/2019 at 9:01 AM, Lady Calypso said:

Exactly. This was a reactionary thing from Barry; he just found out about Nora lying and the first thing he did was put her in the pipeline. It makes sense; Barry/Nora have had several conversations now about Eobard Thawne and how he ruined Barry's entire life. Even if Nora didn't know that before she came, she found out well after and she still stayed silent for several more weeks. [snip] But Barry's anger at Nora is justifiable. She was working with the enemy...and we know she's STILL working with the enemy. That's a hard truth to face for Barry. Even after all of this information from Barry about Thawne, Nora is still willing to trust him. So if he wants to keep her in the pipeline for a couple of days, I don't blame him. It's not like Barry's planning to keep her in the pipeline for weeks. He's just really, really angry right now, and for good reason.

Of course we also saw that when Nora found out what Thawne had done, which was so much more than just being another rogue in his gallery, she was ready to cut ties and not trust him but Eobard said he'd changed and Barry just happened to speech-a-fy on this particular topic of believing in second chances and how anyone can change even an Eobard Thawne type so Barry is the very reason WHY Nora decided to keep trusting him.  And of course we also know that saving Barry is why she's working with him in the first place.  Barry doesn't know any of this but that's why just dropping her in the pipeline and walking away annoys me.  

I'm hoping they have Barry come to talk to her soon.  I don't have real objections to her being contained while they wrap their head around this new reality but then question her and get answers as soon as possible.  If Barry's plan turns out to be him just locking her away while they read her diary, I'll be disappointed.  

Edited by BkWurm1
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1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

It was never suppressing Nora's powers as a kid that was questionable, good reasons could exist.  It was never telling her about them ever even long after she was an adult.  I guess Nora is just lucky they didn't just give her the cure.  

Well first, there might have been good reasons to not tell her - keeping her away from Thawne might be one, a self-fufilling prophecy so to speak.

Secondly, we still don't know the full story. If anything the flashback/trip into Nora's memories episode earlier shows that how Nora remembers her life is highly subjectively.

But yeah, considering how ticked off Barry was, she's lucky he didn't give her the Cure there and then. 😂

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1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

It's either remove his powers or kill him since if he was just supposed to be elsewhere, he could too easily pop back to help if they needed it and thus this would eliminate a plot hole in the future but it feels like a HUGE disservice to the enthusiastic dude we first met that loved everything about the superhero life.  This dude filled with self loathing isn't Cisco and I really don't know where it came from.  

Or they could send him to "Nepal" like Wally. (Keiynan come back!)

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2 hours ago, ursula said:

Well first, there might have been good reasons to not tell her - keeping her away from Thawne might be one, a self-fufilling prophecy so to speak.

Secondly, we still don't know the full story. If anything the flashback/trip into Nora's memories episode earlier shows that how Nora remembers her life is highly subjectively.

But yeah, considering how ticked off Barry was, she's lucky he didn't give her the Cure there and then. 😂

Nora is not misremembering never being told she's a speedster.  She didn't grow up to be a serial killer so no, there's no reason they will be able to come up with to justify not ever telling her.  Didn't they just say in this episode that keeping secrets means taking away other people's rightful choices?  Or does that just apply to other people?

Edited by BkWurm1
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12 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

She didn't grow up to be a serial killer so no, there's no reason they will be able to come up with to justify not ever telling her.

I'm wondering if there isn't something fundamentally wrong with Nora mentally. She doesn't act her age; it's like she's emotionally immature beyond reason, despite her obvious above average book intelligence. It's like her EQ and moral compass are way off. Perhaps we'll learn there's a reason she acts like a teenager despite being her parents' age. 

No, there's no real jusitification for not telling Nora about her powers as an adult unless you think she'll be a danger to herself and others. Based on her actions since learning about her powers, I'd say Iris was justified in keeping her in the dark. Nora is a danger to herself and others.

Edited by adora721
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13 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Nora is not misremembering never being told she's a speedster.  She didn't grow up to be a serial killer so no, there's no reason they will be able to come up with to justify not ever telling her.  Didn't they just say in this episode that keeping secrets means taking away other people's rightful choices?  Or does that just apply to other people?

Iris, Joe, etc. not telling Nora that she is a speedster and Barry is the Flash when she became an adult is a huge problem. It just doesn't seem like something that Iris would do which is why she was so upset when Nora told her. There must be more to the story and we will find out by the end of the season. My speculation is that must have something to do with the fallout of Nora's scheme with Thawne. Maybe Nora causes Barry's disappearance or someone's death (maybe her own) or some terrible event. It would explain why The Flash Museum has been whitewashed. They decide not to tell Nora about her powers as an adult to protect her, to stop her from travelling to the past and finding out what she did or causing the event. Maybe this isn't the first time that Nora has traveled back to the past and altered the timeline.

Edited by SimoneS
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So that theory is: Nora grows up knowing - travels back causes something bad - with that knowledge they decide not to tell her, Nora grows up not knowing, but finds out anyway from Thawne - Still travels back in time. Like the Savitar time loop?

I suppose that could be, but I think the problem with that is that even if she caused something big the first time it would probably be better to just tell her: 'listen, this and this happened and you caused this and this so don't do this.' Would Nora have listened? We don't know, but now we won't know because she never got that choice. Plus, the result ended up the same.

If it's some time loop where Iris etc know the result of Nora time traveling they would also now know that keeping the secret backfires and Iris has already indicated that she plans on being more open with Nora, so in a way they've already changed the tl unless Iris changes her  mind. 


I just hope we get more on why the chip was implanted, what their lives were like (who in team flash are they still in contact with and why and how they kept the secrets). I think it's one of those situations where you can truly feel for both sides and it would be interesting to actually see older Iris and Nora interact both before and after the secret was revealed. Now that I think of it, it would have been interesting if this episode had flash forwards and showed future Iris wondering if she should tell Nora now that she had grown up and the fallout of Nora finding out and Nora wondering whether she should tell her parents and the fallout of Barry and Iris finding out. Really exploring the reasonings and all that.

But I remember this TVLine interview where Todd said (i'm not sure if this is considered a spoiler since it's an old interview, but just in case

Spoiler
Quote

TVLINE | Some of us here at the office were surprised that Nora didn’t know key things about Barry’s backstory — specifically, the events surrounding the death of his mother. In your mind, is there a reason she wouldn’t already know such a thing?
In the future, Iris has dampened Nora’s speed and kept her powers from her, so I think this all falls in line with “I don’t want my daughter becoming a speedster and possibly being fated the same way her father was. And If I explain to her this whole backstory about how Nora [Allen] was massacred by this Man in Yellow….” I mean, Nora ultimately finds her way to Thawne, but in that time period he is in prison, so he is “around.” It’s just a way for Iris to try to keep Nora away from Thawne and learning all the stuff she doesn’t know about.

This is not necessarily what the reason is as he's using it as a shorthand and he's not going to give away if it's something different, but it does sort of point into the direction that this is the direction they're thinking in when it comes to the why. And it's possible they consider the issue settled with Nora saying she understands Iris was trying to protect her and not end up like Barry (I hope not)

What gives me some hope that we're at least still going to see/hear more on the issue is this answer:

Spoiler

TVLINE | I suspect that we don’t know the full story behind the speed-dampening chip that Future Iris implanted in Nora. Is there something you’re holding back on?
There’s a Thawne aspect to all of this, that we haven’t revealed yet — that we will.

I have some more thoughts on all this, but I think I'll post them in the spoilers thread when I get the chance since it's more fitting there.

I wish they did more interviews. I know we just got a bunch of interviews with Sarah, and Todd did a few interviews here and there, but I think the last time we had interviews with the main cast was during the 100 party?  There wasn't really any show info during the vancouver expo con or the event Candice attended.

Edited by RedVitC · Reason: typos etc + there was a random emoji
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10 hours ago, adora721 said:

I'm wondering if there isn't something fundamentally wrong with Nora mentally. She doesn't act her age; it's like she's emotionally immature beyond reason, despite her obvious above average book intelligence. It's like her EQ and moral compass are way off. Perhaps we'll learn there's a reason she acts like a teenager despite being her parents' age. 

No, there's no real jusitification for not telling Nora about her powers as an adult unless you think she'll be a danger to herself and others. Based on her actions since learning about her powers, I'd say Iris was justified in keeping her in the dark. Nora is a danger to herself and others.

I don't find anything unusually wrong with Nora's EQ or her behavior around her parents given the circumstance in which she grew up and that they ARE her parents.  I see it all the time, adults reverting to more teenage like behavoir around their parents, just falling into old patterns.  Add to it Nora's insecurity about her power and it's newness, and her desperation to save her father but having to keep all that she was doing a secret, I really don't think she's behaved oddly.  Certainly not to the level that anyone could clinically claim mental incompetence.   Nothing the show has giving us suggests anyone thinks that either but of course you are free to disagree.  

10 hours ago, SimoneS said:

My speculation is that must have something to do with the fallout of Nora's scheme with Thawne. Maybe Nora causes Barry's disappearance or someone's death (maybe her own) or some terrible event. It would explain why The Flash Museum has been whitewashed. They decide not to tell Nora about her powers as an adult to protect her, to stop her from travelling to the past and finding out what she did or causing the event. Maybe this isn't the first time that Nora has traveled back to the past and altered the timeline.

I'd say there has been sufficient proof that this is the first time Nora has traveled back in time.  Like when Barry and Nora bopped back and talked to EvilWells and his commented on him having "one of them" referencing a missing tornado twin that had existed before EvilWells killed his mom.  Stuff that hints this is the first time for any of this, like us knowing that Thawne cracked the ability to be aware of altered timelines but not hinting that any of this had happened before.  Because clearly he would be unable to resist, lol.

I'm sure the reason Nora wasn't told was simply Iris being over protective and afraid if her daughter had powers she'd lose her like she lost Barry but because Nora now is more sympathetic over how hard Iris had it, she will forgive her and they will move on.  Or better yet, get some kind of time reset so Barry (and let's toss in Oliver for random good measure) doesn't vanish from his family's life, giving everyone a second chance to do it right this time.  

Edited by BkWurm1 · Reason: Punctuation matters

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Soooo late to the party, but for reasons I can't explain, I haven't been able to watch the last 7 episodes of this show or Arrow. I just burned through the last 7 of this show last night, and Jeebus Cripes, I could have just watched this episode to be all caught up!

And it was just the last three minutes that were entertaining for me. My opinion on why Barry "flashed" Nora into the pipeline was to prevent her from Flashing/running away, as she's been shown to do when she didn't agree with whatever Barry or Iris or both of them have said. And yes, although Barry did mention how even Thawne deserved a second chance (WTF, now?! Fuck you, Hebling and your writers!😡), which probably changed Nora's mind to keep working for him, I just can't accept her continuing to do so, knowing that he murdered her Grandma Nora, and all the other shit.

Oh, look! It's Alicia Sarah Carter! A meta here, a meteor freak on Smallville...

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We don't know how Nora would have reacted/been if Iris was the one that had told her she had powers, and if Iris had told her Barry was the Flash (Not sure when she found out about that ) and if she consequently had heard about their family's dealings with the reverse flash. Maybe she would have done the same, but we will never know that because she was never given that choice. I think that was the point Barry was trying to make in the last episode, so that's why I don't think what Nora did after she found out from someone else can be used as the justification for keeping it a secret in the first place. Someone's reaction to learning something can be wildly different based on whether someone sits them down and calmly tells them the secret + why it was kept vs finding out suddenly from another source. Especially on tv shows.

I'm very symphathetic to Iris' reasoning even if it turns out it was  her being afraid Nora would turn out lost like Barry and I'm sure every decision she made was because she felt she was protecting her family and that it will all be very understandable, but I think the speed chip was too big a thing to keep a secret for someone's whole entire life. As a kid, even a teenager I can understand, but Iris must have known that at some point the secret would come out especially if they kept living in Central City. Better to hear it from her mother.  

That's said, we know nothing about what future Iris' plans were since they haven't explored her pov, maybe Iris was planning on telling Nora, kept putting it off, and reverse flash beat her to it. Like a bitter parallel to Nora finally getting ready to tell her parents but Sherloque beating her to the punch.

I think this is all so rich, and it's too bad the show didn't hasn't explored this more yet by giving us future Iris' pov and scenes 

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I wonder why, for a show with so much time travel, NO ONE brings back stock tips/sports outcomes.  I get why the good guys (and the Legends) don't do that; they don't want to disrupt the timeline too much...but Young Cicada and Thawne are evil, not stupid.  

That said, "I Peter Parker-ed her" and "Operation Shazaam" made me laugh harder than they should have, even on a rewatch. 

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On 3/20/2019 at 10:19 AM, SimoneS said:

I hope we get a scene of Barry and Iris admitting that subconsciously they knew something was off with Nora. They have been dumbed down to make Nora's story work. There were red flags that they ignored including the danger to the timeline.

Apparently the only scene we will get from Barry and Iris about Nora is

Barry screaming at Iris, re the BTS video in the spoiler and discussion thread.

.

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On 4/3/2019 at 8:56 AM, RedVitC said:

I think this is all so rich, and it's too bad the show didn't hasn't explored this more yet by giving us future Iris' pov and scenes 

They are/were too eager to give us OTF scenes - guess that's why we have a new EP for Season 6.

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Have not been a Nora fan since the first episode she showed up. Not sure exactly why but ...

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