S07.E16: Star City 2040

[lemotomato]

There's so much to unpack in this episode plot-wise that I need to rewatch because I'm sure I missed a lot, and I'm not sure it'll even make very much sense in the end. But I almost don't even care, because what really made the episode great for me were the interactions and chemistry between Mia, William, Connor, and Felicity. Every scene with every combination of those characters sparked. If this was a backdoor pilot for a next gen spinoff, I'm totally on board. 

One thing I was pleasantly surprised about was how the show decided to skip the "bumbling, fumbling, learning to be a vigilante" phase for Mia and just threw her into a fight where she wiped out a room full of minions by herself. She might hate vigilantes, but the girl can't deny she was born to be one.

Edited March 19, 2019 by lemotomato

[Mellowyellow]

@KenyaJ Bamford's daughter Jade is the perfect Olicitot! She's soooooooooo darn cute!!!!!! Loved her handstand against the logs!

All the Mias were fantastic!!! I love that they put so much care into casting our sprog! 😍

[Morrigan2575]

4 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I keep seeing people that took it as Felicity saying "that one is on me" to mean her creating Archer led to Oliver's death/disappearance.  But I took it as she feels responsible for creating Galaxy and it's evil predecessor company. 

That's exactly what she meant. She created Archer with good intentions and it got corrupted. I'm not sure whether it's because she trusted the wrong people or neglected her company for her mission. However, something she created to protect has been used to hurt and she feels responsible

[Aeryn13]

Penultimate Season. An episode set entirely in a basically dystopian future. The adult daughter. Arrow is pulling some hardcore Fringe here.

I enjoyed it. Other than still tap-dancing around what happened to Oliver. At least we finally got Felicity. And Nyssa as the teacher explains a lot.    

[Mellowyellow]

I picked up a few more things upon rewatch.

Connor = Diggle. Calm, level headed. 

Mia = Oliver

William = Felicity

So this is essentially an AU showing what it would be like if Diggle and Oliver dated 😅

Mia's fight scene to get to Felicity was so dramatic. Totally reminded me of Oliver preening in S1.

I wonder if it's intentional but based on some of Mia's facial expressions I foresee her being jealous of Felicity and William's bond. I liked the "You have another kid that you love" look on her face when William and Felicity hugged.  

This would have been so much better if they were allowed to be a happy family despite whatever apocalyptic crap took place! *sigh*

***

Felicity's face when she hugged Dinah: That was very reminisce of a SA stank face. EBR doesn't usually do stank faces. Do you guys think it's plot based? EBR is always very much "on" so I can't imagine it's her having an off moment. 

Edited March 19, 2019 by Mellowyellow

[way2interested]

9 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

BamBam said surprise guest stars but, she was the only one right?

Just figured it out. He must have meant his daughter as the other one, especially since it was the same scene.

[Mary0360]

Having watched the episode this definitely had a feeling of being a soft pilot set up for a spin off. 

[Angel12d]

8 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

So I'm seeing a divide of opinion on what Felicity meant at the end of the episode.  Let me do quotes for clarity.

Mia: "Mom, there's um...it seemed like there is something really personal about you stopping Galaxy.  Is that about dad?"

Felicity:  "No, it's not.  That one is on me."

cue present day and Felicity creates the Archer program.  

I keep seeing people that took it as Felicity saying "that one is on me" to mean her creating Archer led to Oliver's death/disappearance.  But I took it as she feels responsible for creating Galaxy and it's evil predecessor company. 

Thoughts?? 

I thought the same. She feels responsible for the Archer program and whatever evil that resulted from it ending up in the bad guy's control.

[Angel12d]

36 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Felicity's face when she hugged Dinah: That was very reminisce of a SA stank face. EBR doesn't usually do stank faces. Do you guys think it's plot based? EBR is always very much "on" so I can't imagine it's her having an off moment. 

Their reunion hug was weird and awkward mostly because Dinah was out there claiming Felicity was super evil for most of the season so her suddenly caring and being emotional that she was alive was very off-putting. There was a definite off vibe but I just don't know if it's intentional or not? Personally I feel like there should be awkwardness because Dinah is so awful and Felicity clearly didn't trust her that much but maybe they didn't intend for it to come across that way. 

[insomniadreams88]

You know what I couldn't help but think throughout this episode? Once again, it looks like Felicity was all alone while everyone else was, in a way, together, like the beginning of the season. 

Since Felicity was keeping Mia a secret, I doubt she had any real close friends. She had Nyssa when she visited, probably, and presumably Diggle, depending on what he's up to/how often they could talk. 

Meanwhile, there's a whole Canary Network in Star City and Rene is thriving as mayor. 

1 hour ago, Angel12d said:

Their reunion hug was weird and awkward mostly because Dinah was out there claiming Felicity was super evil for most of the season so her suddenly caring and being emotional that she was alive was very off-putting. There was a definite off vibe but I just don't know if it's intentional or not? Personally I feel like there should be awkwardness because Dinah is so awful and Felicity clearly didn't trust her that much but maybe they didn't intend for it to come across that way. 

I hope it's intentional. I just wish that the show would acknowledge that Rene and Dinah (and Curtis) aren't these great people just because they wear masks. They have flaws. We've seen them. Stop just ignoring them! Dinah was practically ready to put up a billboard and pay money for TV spots declaring Felicity evil and dead at the beginning of the flashforwards. 

[Morrigan2575]

Is it safe to assume that Felicity called Diggle to help watch over Mia in SC?

Mia leaves Country town for big city, maybe 16 or 17?

Felicity calls Diggle, Diggle calls Connor watch out for Mia!

Felicity moves to Star City to keep on eye on Mia and go after Galaxy.

The timeline is hard to figure out but, it sounds like Mia ran away fairly recently, 1-2 years at most. 

Unfortunately, the show tried so hard to be mysterious that it doesn't really live up with what they showed and what KatM said in interviews but, that's nothing new

[way2interested]

34 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Is it safe to assume that Felicity called Diggle to help watch over Mia in SC?

Mia leaves Country town for big city, maybe 16 or 17?

Felicity calls Diggle, Diggle calls Connor watch out for Mia!

Felicity moves to Star City to keep on eye on Mia and go after Galaxy.

The timeline is hard to figure out but, it sounds like Mia ran away fairly recently, 1-2 years at most. 

Unfortunately, the show tried so hard to be mysterious that it doesn't really live up with what they showed and what KatM said in interviews but, that's nothing new

I think something like that. Mia leaves at 18 and lives in Star City for about 2/2 and a half years and Felicity follows but Mia refuses to live or have a close relationship with Felicity again (but still apparently takes her calls, if only to keep up her thieving lifestyle for money and to ignore Felicity telling her to leave multiple times or when she fakes her death it seems). Some time when Felicity comes to Star City (presumably at least for a while since Felicity faked being bad for enough time for a good number of people to buy it) and Mia still ignores her warnings to leave she probably calls Diggle who gets Connor to look after her just in case stuff goes down and Mia still ignores her warning signs.

[KenyaJ]

8 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

@KenyaJ Bamford's daughter Jade is the perfect Olicitot! She's soooooooooo darn cute!!!!!! Loved her handstand against the logs!

Yeah, apparently she does Capoeira, so no surprise that she was so coordinated and perfectly played a baby badass. She's cute as a button too. I hope we eventually get to see her again. I would burst into a pile of rainbows and hearts if we get to see her in a scene with Emily and Stephen. Please God (and Beth), let it happen.

3 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Felicity's face when she hugged Dinah: That was very reminisce of a SA stank face. EBR doesn't usually do stank faces. Do you guys think it's plot based? EBR is always very much "on" so I can't imagine it's her having an off moment. 

I have to assume it was intentional, since EBR and JH seem to like each other a lot IRL. I really hope there's something to it because right now, Future Dinah is bringing nothing to this story. At least if she's shady, that will justify her presence in the future. 

[kickingnames]

5 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Penultimate Season. An episode set entirely in a basically dystopian future. The adult daughter. Arrow is pulling some hardcore Fringe here.

YES! I forgot to mention that. I started really getting those vibes in the last episode, but they leaned into it heavily here.

RE Fringe: 

Spoiler

The good news is that Fringe found a way to reset the dystopian future, so the daughter actually got to grow up happy with both her parents.

So maybe there's hope for Arrow.

[BunsenBurner]

8 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

The opening training montage was fun, and Nyssa is the best as always. But would it have killed them to switch up Katrina’s outfit a little?  Unless the idea is that for 14 or so years, that’s just more or less what she wears when they do that.  Like, she’ll drop by in a hoodie and jeans for book club or whatever- but the long coat and leather means it’s kickboxing with Ninja!Aunt. Oh, and apparently they only work out at like 3pm during ideal weather conditions...

I unfortunately had to watch with the sound off and no cc because I was on the phone working. 

I thought the trip into the house took longer than the birth of Mia and the happiness of Oliver and Felicity. 

In regards to Nyssa was this before or after she had her own baby? I think they were using the all black and the flowing black coat to hide her stomach. JMO. 

I won’t be watching anything else on the CW once this show is over. I’m barely hanging on to this show. 

Edited March 19, 2019 by BunsenBurner

[way2interested]

6 minutes ago, BunsenBurner said:

In regards to Nyssa was this before or after she had her own baby? I think they were using the all black and the flowing black coat to hide her stomach. JMO. 

Very close right after, like 2 months or so. It was the reason why she couldn't be in 712 (it was implied they asked her to come back then), but yeah I noticed that too XD. I almost wondered if that's the reason they made Nyssa the one to train Mia, because they really wanted to bring KL back in some way since she couldn't make the 150th.

[tv echo]

Older Felicity looked great. For once, the show didn't go overboard on the old age makeup. I was even more impressed by EBR's acting. Despite her youthful appearance, she managed to portray an older, more somber Felicity. She also had this ever present sadness in her eyes that expressed that she missed Oliver every second of every day.  (WhereTF is Oliver?! C'mon, show, I want him alive!)

I love the relationship between William and Mia - sibling bickering and all. Ben Lewis continues to delight in his portrayal of older William, especially his little snarky comments. I still like KM as Mia, but her constant angry bitterness is starting to grate. I'm starting to get early Thea vibes - and not in a good way. 

I really liked how it took William, Mia and Connor, all using their respective and complementary skills together, in order to pull off Felicity's rescue. It was like an Young OTA mission.

I also like Connor and Roy. I still only tolerate Rene and Dinah. Also, older Zoe is too bland and forgettable. In contrast to KM, BL and JDJ, AS is coming across as the least charismatic actor of the new generation.

I loved the whole infiltration/rescue and then save the city mission, with Felicity working the tech side, side by side with William, and Mia being the badass fighter. The only thing that would've made it better would be Oliver fighting alongside his daughter. I hate, hate, hate that Oliver is (apparently) dead or missing in the flashforwards.

Just speculating - but last episode Diggle told Felicity that he would've had ARGUS buy her program. So I'm thinking that Felicity sells or licenses her Archer program to ARGUS. But then ARGUS turns (or turns out to be) evil. Then ARGUS is in cahoots with or secretly forms Eden Corps. Diggle & Lyla leave ARGUS and form Knightwatch to combat Eden Corps. Eden Corps is presumably defeated at some time in the past (future). But now Eden Corps is back, but hiding behind the pretext of this Galaxy One company.

And why Eden Corps? Any connection to present day Dante? Dante, Heaven and Hell, Garden of Eden, maybe?

14 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

The last Felicity/Mia scene was wonderful on many levels and I could watch it over and over happily, but I am confused about what has now finally made Mia understand and accept that the anti-propaganda stuff really were lies and that everything Felicity did was in her best interests.  It's confusing the abrupt turn around. 

I'm not sure that Mia ended up totally agreeing with all of Felicity's actions. However, I think Mia did start to rethink her opinion of vigilantes and question the anti-propaganda stuff. The reason might be because she just witnessed and was part of a group of vigilantes who stopped the bombing of Star City. After that, it's hard to keep believing that vigilantes are all bad.

Edited March 19, 2019 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, Angel12d said:

Their reunion hug was weird and awkward mostly because Dinah was out there claiming Felicity was super evil for most of the season so her suddenly caring and being emotional that she was alive was very off-putting. There was a definite off vibe but I just don't know if it's intentional or not? Personally I feel like there should be awkwardness because Dinah is so awful and Felicity clearly didn't trust her that much but maybe they didn't intend for it to come across that way. 

I think it was intentional.  Felicity clearly had issues with both Rene (“You are alive.” “No thanks to you.”) and Dinah since she kept both in the dark.  Dinah says Felicity could have told them what she was doing but clearly Felicity disagreed and with her earlier line about no teams no complications-while also totally letting Diggle and his fam know all about stuff and reaching out to William and sending him to Roy-it was directed not at just a team in general but the former team mates who had already shown they couldn’t be counted on to have her back.   

I also think that while Felicity doesn’t trust Dinah, she does not waste her time hating her   Just knows she’s not someone she can rely on except for specific things.  They have history so she might always care about Dinah on some levels, (Rene to a much lesser extent IMO) but she’s not a close friend nor does Felicity want her as one. And she doesn’t waste time feeling bad about that but just let’s Dinah do what she wants while Felicity lives her life.      

Her sorry for not telling them about Mia felt like her just saying the expected social norm while clearly she had no real regrets (beyond whatever circumstances triggered the need for secrecy)or she would have included them.  At the same time, they just aren’t important enough for her to waste too much energy on displaying her... lets call it a grudge against them.   

Im not a 100 percent positive the show means to write it as Felicity will never truly trust them after the events of 6b and 7a but it sure seems that is what EBR is portraying.   

[Chaser]

I loved that opening montage with Nyssa but it did bring up more questions about Thea for me.

Off the wall theory...I wonder if something happened to both Thea and Roy but while the pit brought Roy back it didn't work on Thea. 

[KenyaJ]

Maybe the pit only works once in a lifetime?

[SmallScreenDiva]

29 minutes ago, BunsenBurner said:

I thought the trip into the house took longer than the birth of Mia and the happiness of Oliver and Felicity.

Classic Bamford. Enamored with the “cool shot” at the expense of the more important emotional moments. 🙄 There were also some stuff that had me laughing last night. Like when William was supposed to be helped by Mia onto a ledge on the wall and the camera pulls out too quickly and you see he’s already sitting on the ledge. Great director, that Bam-Bam. 

Anyway, anyone else catch this expression on Oliver’s face? 

[tv echo]

This is interesting - since I don't watch The Flash, I wasn't aware of this fact about Eden Corps (so I guess Kevin Dale is related to Veronica?)...
https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/03/19/everything-we-learned-about-arrows-future-in-star-city-2040/#6

Quote

Remember back in The Flash's fourth season when the Scarlet Speedster had to stop a nuclear bomb explosion already in progress to save the day? Yeah, that bomb was set off by Veronica Dale, a member of the eco-terrorism group called Eden Corps. Galaxy One appears to be a cover for Eden Corps and they have a seriously nefarious plan to take the Archer program global. It's not exactly explained how Eden Corps goes from trying to set off a nuke in 2018 to Archer in 2040, but clearly they're still a problem.

Edited March 19, 2019 by tv echo

[bijoux]

@SmallScreenDiva, I want to laugh at the first part of your post and cry at the second. No, I didn't notice Oliver's face falling. 😞

[tv echo]

I'm also learning about Knightwatch from reading media reviews...
https://screenrant.com/arrow-season-7-5-biggest-questions-episode-16/2/

Quote

In the DC Comics universe, Knightwatch is a military wing of the Department of Extranormal Operations - the branch of the US Government that monitors metahumans, magic users and aliens. Their exact area of influence is unclear beyond their providing security for the President but their agents wear armor similar to that of the organization Checkmate. They may also have a connection to Task Force X - the same government program that organized the Suicide Squad.

One interesting note is that William asks if Knightwatch is "the good version of ARGUS," to which Connor replies "Something like that." This is notable not only for what it implies about Connor's adoptive parents and the organization they worked for but also in how it mirrors one aspect of a possible future depicted in Legends of Tomorrow. Zari Tomaz comes from the year 2042 and a future where America became a fascist state after superheroes were outlawed and ARGUS became the police force of the new regime. While Arrow's showrunners have previously said that they were creating their own story with the flashforward sequences, this still seems too similar to the earlier storyline to be a coincidence.

Edited March 19, 2019 by tv echo

[Mary0360]

I didn't find the hug between Dinah and Felicity awkward but I did find Felicity apology about not telling them about having a grown child as though she had forgotten to tell them that someone called while they were out super flippant and awkward. 

Edited March 19, 2019 by Mary0360

[tv echo]

I forgot to mention in my review above that I also loved Mia's use of Felicity's BSG curse word...

Mia: "What the frak?"
(When she discovered Felicity's secret room)

Edited March 19, 2019 by tv echo

[SmallScreenDiva]

4 minutes ago, bijoux said:

@SmallScreenDiva, I want to laugh at the first part of your post and cry at the second. No, I didn't notice Oliver's face falling. 😞

I only caught it in the second viewing but didn't put it together until I saw that tweet and my heart just broke for Oliver (if that's what it really was).

[Angel12d]

Is anyone else confused by Rene? I can't figure out if he's genuinely on the bad side now or has he switched or is he pretending to switch sides and is still actually bad? Help a girl out! Haha.

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Is anyone else confused by Rene? I can't figure out if he's genuinely on the bad side now or has he switched or is he pretending to switch sides and is still actually bad? Help a girl out! Haha.

He probably doesn't know either. 

No, but in all seriousness, I think he's good but pretending to be bad. 

[bijoux]

Did Mia kick all that ass in the old loft? 

[lemotomato]

25 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Did Mia kick all that ass in the old loft? 

Looked like it. And then she had her heart-to-heart talk with Felicity in the loft bedroom set.

[jay741982]

13 hours ago, kickingnames said:

I really enjoyed it. I was shouting at the tv, squealing, instantly  replaying little moments I loved — it felt a little like old school Arrow. The stuff with OTA 2.0 was such fun, and Felicity was the best as usual. I never thought I could enjoy an Oliver-less episode of this show so much (I usually don’t last more than a few minutes). I’ll do a full rewatch later (most of you have aleady pointed out the things I loved), but a couple of things I’ll mention now:
 

MTE. Especially if they remember the bit of canon that says the only way to rid the bloodlust is to kill whoever put you in the pit — if Thea did that to Roy, he would absolutely exile himself rather than risk killing her. It just hit me that I completely remembered that LP canon wrong — it’s that the bloodlust can be cured only by killing the person who fatally wounded you, causing you to need the pit in the first place, not the person who put you in it. Although if Thea did that to Roy, he’d probably exile himself just because. So same result, really.
 

I loved Felicity’s genetics shade, but this:

might just be my favorite expression of the episode.
 

ETA: I always have to catch up on it late, but congrats to the Live Posting Thread for reaching the 5,000 replies mark!

ETA2: I got a key part of that canon wrong. Oops.

What I loved about that was Mias scowl as Felicity was telling Rene that she was the result of her and Oliver's impeccable Genes 😄😄

[BkWurm1]

They really did do a great job on EBR's age make-up, especially in the cabin scenes. 

[Quark]

As someone who doesn't really care about the flash forwards, it was all pretty mediocre.

Emily Bett Rickards is much better at the lighter stuff.

Nyssa was easily the highlight of the episode. I just love that woman.

Fight scenes were cool.

[Mellowyellow]

I thought Mia lived in the clock tower?

Is it not meant to be the actual clock tower in s2? They recycle sets so often it confuses me. 

I was laughing at how dramatic she was, living in the place where daddy also had dramatics and needed a pep talk from mummy. 

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I thought Mia lived in the clock tower?

Is it not meant to be the actual clock tower in s2? They recycle sets so often it confuses me. 

I was laughing at how dramatic she was, living in the place where daddy also had dramatics and needed a pep talk from mummy. 

She's living in what looks like an abandoned office or studio that's a part of the old loft set that's redressed. I don't think it's supposed to be a place we've seen before. 

[Mellowyellow]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

She's living in what looks like an abandoned office or studio that's a part of the old loft set that's redressed. I don't think it's supposed to be a place we've seen before. 

Haha I so thought it was intentionally the old clock tower in Star City 😅

[way2interested]

12 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I thought Mia lived in the clock tower?

Is it not meant to be the actual clock tower in s2? They recycle sets so often it confuses me. 

I was laughing at how dramatic she was, living in the place where daddy also had dramatics and needed a pep talk from mummy. 

It's the recycled set of the loft, but it's supposed to be the upper floor/office room of Max Fuller's club (the in-universe excuse for why Mia's hangout has the same walls as where Oliver and Max had their discussion earlier in the same episode) because the cage fights are had back where his club used to be in 708. The dialogue in Mia's first scene said it was supposed to be the very same club.

Edited March 19, 2019 by way2interested

[Mellowyellow]

20 hours ago, statsgirl said:

You're going to hate this but in that sense, she reminds me of Moira and how ST portrayed her in the present scenes.

Upon the rewatch I have decided that when you do love your deceased/missing/vanished husband you appear significantly "softer" than your cutthroat MIL even if you are now the family matriarch.

Felicity looks so sad even with the moments of dorkiness. Like she misses Oliver every day 😭😣😖😫😩😔😞😟

[BkWurm1]

7 hours ago, tv echo said:

This is interesting - since I don't watch The Flash, I wasn't aware of this fact about Eden Corps (so I guess Kevin Dale is related to Veronica?)...
https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/03/19/everything-we-learned-about-arrows-future-in-star-city-2040/#6

Quote

Remember back in The Flash's fourth season when the Scarlet Speedster had to stop a nuclear bomb explosion already in progress to save the day? Yeah, that bomb was set off by Veronica Dale, a member of the eco-terrorism group called Eden Corps. Galaxy One appears to be a cover for Eden Corps and they have a seriously nefarious plan to take the Archer program global. It's not exactly explained how Eden Corps goes from trying to set off a nuke in 2018 to Archer in 2040, but clearly they're still a problem

Not sure it's important, but in that episode, ARGUS was the one behind the shipment  of a experimental nuke only to be ambushed by the Eden Corps fanatics (heavily armed) who were shooting it out with the CCPD.  Veronica Dale seemed to be protesting the existence of Nukes.  In her recorded message played after Barry stopped the explosion (a video that would have broadcast if he hadn't stopped it) she says the following:

"Today I showed you how easy a city can fall.  Mark my words, nuclear power will bring only destruction to the world.  You'll see it again and when you do, you will all remember the name Veronica Dale and fully understand my actions."

Then she chants Eden-Corps a few times and Joe explains  "As in blasting everybody back to the days of the garden of Eden."  Joe mentioned that she was an environmental activist, turned animal liberator, turned domestic terrorist.  They assumed someone tipped Dale off about the shipment.  

So the question will always be, why did/does Argus have fancy shmancy next gen Nukes? (That they were moving with only Central City PD as an escort)

Edited March 20, 2019 by BkWurm1

[Cthulhudrew]

OMG. I don't know who directed this episode, but it felt like every. single. shot. with Mia was a drawn out pose.

(Mia holds her bow steady in front of her staring at it admiringly for a lingering shot.)

(Mia takes off her mask and stares into the camera grinning for a lingering shot.)

(Mia throws something into the air and pauses dramatically while staring upwards at it as the camera lingers.)

Ad nauseum.

This isn't a comic book. People in real life don't stand dramatically as if every second was a comic book panel.

I guess I'm in the minority in not liking this episode at all. I really don't care about anyone in Future Team Arrow or the Dystopian Star City.

It was nice seeing Nyssa back again, even if it was kind of a waste of Katrina Law in a walk on role. If they are going to keep shoehorning in backdoor pilots for Arrow spinoffs, I'd much prefer a League of Assassins show starring KL.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Cthulhudrew

[tv echo]

I rewatched this episode and noticed little things that I didn't notice on first watch, like...

Felicity was wearing a green mask (I know it was obvious, duh, but I really didn't notice it the first time around):

(source)

And when William used the scanner device to open the door to where the bombs were supposed to be stored, Felicity gently pushed him aside so that she could go into the darkened room first (still protecting William after all these years):

(claireice)

Edited March 20, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Oh, one more thing...

The first time I watched the episode, just before Mia stepped out of the elevator to fight the guards, she took off her shoes (made sense) and she also took down her hair (made no sense). I thought that taking down her hair was stupid because it would just get in her eyes, and I blamed the director for that style choice. However, upon re-watch, I saw that Mia was hiding an arrow in her hair (which held her hair in place) and pulling that arrow out caused her hair to fall down. So then I was like, 'oh, okay,' that works.

Of course, that still doesn't explain why Mia fought her cage matches with her hair falling all around her face.

Edited March 20, 2019 by tv echo

[bijoux]

9 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Oh, one more thing...

The first time I watched the episode, just before Mia stepped out of the elevator to fight the guards, she took off her shoes (made sense) and she also took down her hair (made no sense). I thought that taking down her hair was stupid because it would just get in her eyes, and I blamed the director for that style choice. However, upon re-watch, I saw that Mia was hiding an arrow in her hair (which held her hair in place) and pulling that arrow out caused her hair to fall down. So then I was like, 'oh, okay,' that works.

Of course, that still doesn't explain why Mia fought her cage matches with her hair falling all around her face.

She's an emo Queen. That's explanation enough for me. 😁

[way2interested]

23 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Of course, that still doesn't explain why Mia fought her cage matches with her hair falling all around her face.

I took it as the not-so-subtle symbolism of before she moved to Star City she always wore her hair in a ponytail (through the montage and then right after it, because she and Felicity were close) and then once she left, no ponytail (because she disassociated herself from Felicity). Yeah, she could have done like braids or something, but gotta be on the nose XD

Edited March 20, 2019 by way2interested

[BkWurm1]

I, of course, immediately thought, yep, the more hair, the easier to obscure the stunt double's face.  Though later they went one better and turned off the lights, lol.  

[way2interested]

14 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I, of course, immediately thought, yep, the more hair, the easier to obscure the stunt double's face.  Though later they went one better and turned off the lights, lol.  

Well, yeah, if you want to be technical XD.

The lights didn't hide the fact she lost a shoe at one point and then got it back!

[marcee]

Not a fan. Maybe because I'm an older fan - I was not into the kid-version of Arrow. Blackstar is SUCH an overactor it's jarring. She seems like she's just trying too hard to be a badass and it's laughable ... and with every other character trying to shove down our throats that she IS a badass, just stop it. Ugh. Bring back the originals, please? I just can't with the next generation.

[SmallScreenDiva]

14 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

OMG. I don't know who directed this episode, but it felt like every. single. shot. with Mia was a drawn out pose.

Bamford. Although this seems to be a regular MO for the female fighters. Not so much with Oliver and the others. I notice it almost every episode with Dinah. 

Edited March 20, 2019 by SmallScreenDiva

[ladylaw99]

My son and I finally watched the episode.

I liked it there is nothing else I can add that everyone else mentioned except I wanted one shot, just one shot of Oliver holding baby Mia.

My son of course liked the episode and it looks like if there is a OTA 2.0 show I will be watching it with my boy.  I have loved watching Arrow with him and I will continue to as long as he wants me to.