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S09.E14: Scars

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2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Well that speaks to the fact that they think Negan is somehow redeemed and viable as a long-term, three dimensional character. Michonne even asked him if he told Judith what he did to Glenn and to Abraham and he responded in the affirmative, so apparently if Judith forgives him that makes it OK.

He says he did but we don't know if he really did. He could have told Michonne he told Judith all the gory details just to get to her.

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So...that episode happened...

I wish we had gotten a whole arc with Rutina and the children of the corn, they seemed like they could be really cool adversaries, certainly better than when we were stuck with the Saviors for about as long as it takes bones to fossilize. Interesting episode, and I can kind of get why this incident would make Michonne want to avoid people, but it doesent totally work for me. Like, I can get them not wanting to bring in new people, or being more careful about it, but why stop talking to the rest of the communities, and the people they've known and loved for years? And now they all have such serious beef with Michonne, and vice versa? Like, I dont see Maggie or Ezekiel deciding to suddenly brainwash a bunch of kids to kidnap other kids and be all feral and crazy any time soon. It thought that the X marks and all that would be a more dramatic payoff, and yeah thats pretty freaking dramatic, but not quite as much as I expected. I did like it alright though. Honestly, I am kind of into this season. Its not anywhere as good as the glory days of seasons past, but its certainly not as bad as the last few seasons. For awhile, this show was like a chore to sit through, and it still kind of is, but less so than it used to be. 

Danai is just so good though, I always love a Michonne centric episode, she can carry a whole episode in a way that a lot of actors just cannot. And even in flashbacks I liked seeing the friendship between her and Darryl again, they have a really easy comradely chemistry together. And Rutina is always so great to see, it was fun seeing her play a villain, and she and Dania worked really well together. 

So Judith knows what Negan did to Glenn and Abe and to countless others, and she is just cool with it? Thats pretty fucked up, even in this universe. I have no desire for a Negan redemption arc, none at all. Not too long ago, he was gleefully murdering innocent people, running his own creepy harem, and being a general monster to everyone we know, I dont want to see him be a good guy or be creepily pals with Judith, even after everything he did to her family. I just want him gone!

Edited by tennisgurl
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56 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

So Judith knows what Negan did to Glenn and Abe and to countless others, and she is just cool with it? Thats pretty fucked up, even in this universe. I have no desire for a Negan redemption arc, none at all.

Did he remember to show her the Polaroids they took after he "roughed them up", (as he probably described it)?

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3 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Negan as psychiatrist would be him prattling for 59 minutes, then, "But enough about me, how much bigger do you think my junk is?" "Oops, time's up, you owe me 5 cents and all your mattresses".

Best laugh I've had today and Bonus! It's all accurate.

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3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So Judith knows what Negan did to Glenn and Abe and to countless others, and she is just cool with it? Thats pretty fucked up, even in this universe. I have no desire for a Negan redemption arc, none at all. Not too long ago, he was gleefully murdering innocent people, running his own creepy harem, and being a general monster to everyone we know, I dont want to see him be a good guy or be creepily pals with Judith, even after everything he did to her family. I just want him gone!

Kirkman is never going to give up on trying to redeem that piece of shit. Even Yvette Nicole Brown was doing her bit to stay on the show by claiming that Judith accepting Negan means that he has turned a corner or some shit like that. I am just pleased that Gimple and Kang have given Negan minimal presence this season. Next season might be completely different.

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If they wanted to give Negan a redemption arc, they should have toned him way down from the comics. No Lucille, no harem, no burning faces. He still could have killed Glenn and Abe, but as an execution in retaliation, not a head bashing party. But that would have required much more sophisticated writing. He could have been a villain without being ridiculous.

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Negan can’t be redeemed for me either. So if they ever have Daryl say a chummy word to him I will throw up. At least Judith is a child and was too young to really remember firsthand what he did. Stories can never top reality. 

On another note, it took be a while to realize when Daryl came out of the school he had new blood spatter on his face and two bloody knifes. Are we to assume he did some killing of his own off camera?

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8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Well that speaks to the fact that they think Negan is somehow redeemed and viable as a long-term, three dimensional character. Michonne even asked him if he told Judith what he did to Glenn and to Abraham and he responded in the affirmative, so apparently if Judith forgives him that makes it OK.

It just seems like no matter what horrendous things Negan did in the past three seasons we're supposed to forget about that because, gosh darn it, he's just so interesting and charismatic, right? And the show thinks Jeffrey Dean Morgan is a big draw.

I'm never going to forget him bashing in Glenn's skull and laughing and saying "That's so gross!" He's never going to be redeemed in my eyes. The world just doesn't work that way. Even if he's a "different person" now that doesn't mean he gets a free pass and doesn't need to be punished anymore. It's why murderers get life in prison or execution. We don't let them out just because they've seen the error of their ways. The whole thing is so disrespectful to Glenn.

I also think the show is overestimating our investment in Judith. Yeah she's Rick's kid (maybe) but this isn't someone we've followed since Season 1. This is a new actress we've only just met this season. For most of the show's history Judith was little more than a prop. I don't care about her the same way I did about Carl. The show thought they could just swap out Carl for Judith and that was a miscalculation.

So well said!

The people that run this show are complete idiots.  Gimple and Kirkman got off on making the murders of Glenn and Abraham as gory as possible, as much as Negan got off on bashing their brains out.  They were so gleeful, thinking they were being 'cutting edge'.  And now we're supposed to forget all about it and cozy up to Negan as if he didn't rape, torture, mutilate scores of other people along with brutally murdering two of the most popular characters.  JDM is a competent actor but he's not good enough to pull that off and the writers and showrunners don't give him or the character he plays any help at all.  What adds insult to injury is that they have an annoying 10 year old vouching for this psychopath.

Edited by mightysparrow
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6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Danai is just so good though, I always love a Michonne centric episode, she can carry a whole episode in a way that a lot of actors just cannot. And even in flashbacks I liked seeing the friendship between her and Darryl again, they have a really easy comradely chemistry together. And Rutina is always so great to see, it was fun seeing her play a villain, and she and Dania worked really well together. 

Danai really is THAT good.  And Danai and Rutina were amazing together.  It's such a shame that Jocelyn is gone and Alpha is still lurking around.  At least Rutina can do a credible Southern accent.  That alone should have kept her for a few more episodes. 

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8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Michonne even asked him if he told Judith what he did to Glenn and to Abraham and he responded in the affirmative, so apparently if Judith forgives him that makes it OK.

And of course, Michonne believed him, because he's so trustworthy. No way would Negan have told the kid anything resembling the truth. Even if he did mention the deaths, he would have made it not his fault. Judith is a child and to her - as with any kid - anything that happened before her time is hazy, ancient history and not real. Negan is real to her. Glenn and Abe are not. And for sure Uncle Neeg never informed her about his crimes, like keeping a harem of coerced, subjugated women for his sexual pleasures, or his other little activities, like The Iron and hurling a doctor into a fire. 

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7 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I don't think Negan will ever redeem himself, but I can envision a scenario where he puts his life on the line to save people.  That won't change anything, because there will always be the "yeah buts".   Yeah, you did good Negan, but that won't offset all of the horrible crap you've done in the past.

I see Negan somewhat going off the deep end in a repentance measure, and giving his life to save a bunch of the groups he's wronged thus far. it's a typical awful effer gives a last good move to turn things right measure. 

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14 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

And of course, Michonne believed him, because he's so trustworthy. No way would Negan have told the kid anything resembling the truth. Even if he did mention the deaths, he would have made it not his fault. Judith is a child and to her - as with any kid - anything that happened before her time is hazy, ancient history and not real. Negan is real to her. Glenn and Abe are not. And for sure Uncle Neeg never informed her about his crimes, like keeping a harem of coerced, subjugated women for his sexual pleasures, or his other little activities, like The Iron and hurling a doctor into a fire. 

Oh, I don't know.  I could envision a scenario where Judith goes off the rails and grows up to be a psychopath, without a conscious, without a soul.   I am just waiting for the episode where it is the crack of dawn, the roosters are crowing, and they show the town of Alexandria with everyone dead, and all we hear is Judith's sinister laugh.

BTW, what is it with this series and tomatoes.  They are supposed to be in Virginia.  There should be fruit and nut trees all over the place.  Plus they should be able to grow peanuts.  But what do we get?  Episode after episode of people eating tomatoes.   And yet, there isn't a zit epidemic.  No one is breaking out in hives.

ETA:  I wonder if they have a town Pimple Popper? Some dude or dudette that walks around popping everyone's pimples.

Edited by icemiser69
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Their attempt at redeeming Negan isn't working on me, but it is eliminating my desire to turn off the TV whenever I see JDM. He seems to be a lovely man and I was getting annoyed that his character was ruining his other work for me.

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On 3/19/2019 at 6:20 PM, nodorothyparker said:

Father Gabriel mentioned last episode that yeah, they have a council to rule on issues but Michonne assumed veto power as head of security and every issue conveniently became a matter of security, effectively rendering any contrary decision making by the council moot. 

But...  They already have a wall! 🙂

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They should hire soap writers for Negan's redemption arc. NO ONE can redeem a rapist, murdering, lying psychopath like a soap opera.  

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The minivan-chariot Michonne was in at the end of this episode makes sense. I hope they did a NASCAR type removal of unneeded heavy equipment - like engines, body panels, etc, Why not put Henry on that detail, converting vehicles into non gas powered, post ZA roadsters.. They can even do Mad Max style conversions. They just would need a "Pigs Town" to manufacture methane based fuel for vehicles.

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