S07.E11: Jeanne's Story

[libgirl2]

3 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

I almost hurled when Mama "sort of" wiped Jeanne's backside and then Jeanne took her naked butt and sat on the side of her bed.  Then later we saw that poop-covered, infected mass hanging from that area . . . I would not have sat down on ANYTHING in ANY room of that house.  Even if I wiped off the spider webs first.

I wouldn't have even walked thru the front door and my house is hardly the paragon of cleanliness. I might have dust bunnies and the floor needs a good sweeping but the poop is in the toilet or in the cat's litter box (occasionally he does toss one out!) 

[libgirl2]

6 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

Dr. Now's not bullshitting when he tells patients, you need to get serious about this program or you are going to die. Of course he's not going to waste resources by performing super-risky bariatric surgery on 600+ pound patients who have not bought into an overall weight loss program. But IMO he probably makes a judgment call that while patient X isn't a textbook case of progress in therapy etc., the patient has managed to follow instructions and lose a targeted amount of weight, and assuming there aren't any other big obstacles, the patient gets the surgery. Which will give the patient a fighting chance to get their weight down out of the super morbidly obese range, and to add some years - hopefully healthier years - to their life. In which to continue whatever therapy they need. We've seen just this season, the range of possible outcomes, from amazing success to gut-wrenching delusional "I'm doing something else instead of Dr. Now's program" which IMO means failure. Different folks, different mindsets, different results.

they need to prove that they are serious about the whole procedure and know it will take work otherwise he is wasting his time and talents. I have seen some patients fall short a few pounds and he is okay with that because it shows progress. Falling short 25+ is a problem. 

[Jeeves]

1 minute ago, libgirl2 said:

they need to prove that they are serious about the whole procedure and know it will take work otherwise he is wasting his time and talents. I have seen some patients fall short a few pounds and he is okay with that because it shows progress. Falling short 25+ is a problem. 

Well said. We've seen that in action on the show. Slow progress and flawed compliance, but a real effort, by one patient, and then denial, noncompliance, excuses and BS on the part of another. Some people just can't get their heads even partly turned around right to get with the program, while others may struggle but do get with it. 

[Elizzikra]

Quote

It pissed me off when she said that  her grandmother would punish her when she was a little girl, by making her smoke cigarettes. Her grandmother was obviously a sick fuck. WTF does that to a child? I found it interesting that she still smokes. I would think that she would associate cigarettes with her asshole grandmother and avoid them, but maybe he psychology is that she thinks she deserves to be poisoned because she hates herself so much.

This could all be true but I think she also was addicted to the nicotine. Her leg was constantly shaking; I think she spent a lot of the episode in withdrawal until she could start smoking again.

Re: lack of seasoning: I can see salt being off limits while these folks are in the hospital on the restricted diet because it increases blood pressure and causes fluid retention. A lot of hot sauces also are heavy on the salt. But some herbs, pepper, etc would go a long way to making the food more palatable.

[libgirl2]

Between the weight, the smoking and the salt her BP had to be sky high. Also smoking lessens your chance for healing, toss in a hygiene problem in addition to being mainly bed or chair bound, no wonder her wound was bloody. Again, this was a very depressing episode that I almost felt ashamed of watching. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by libgirl2

[iwasish]

Most of the subjects spend the majority of their time in bed or on the couch, they don’t work, I don’t even see them readings anything. Yet their main excuse for not losing weight, not sticking to the diet, is “stress”. 

Stress from what?  I don’t understand what about their life is stressful. 

And it’s not just people on this show, it seems like everyone I meet or talked to at work has “anxiety” or is “ soooo stressed”that their doctors are prescribing Xanax and such. I worked a fairly tough job, especially the last couple of years, but never felt so stressed that I needed to get medication.

As far as the grandma making her smoke... I’ve always heard smoking kills the appetite, maybe it was an uneducated attempt by granny to curb her appetite?

I’ve never smoked but many have told me they hated to quit because they gained weight when they did.

My own grandmother told me that she never knew what tuna fish tasted like till she quit smoking and realized she didn’t even like it. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by iwasish

[ProTourist]

1 hour ago, Jeeves said:

I don't disagree that the patients we've seen on this show pretty much all need intensive therapy. 

But these are super morbidly obese individuals who don't have a far horizon ahead of them. If they don't significantly reduce their weight, and the extreme stress the weight puts on their body, they don't have long to live. They need to think about losing weight like, yesterday. And start on a weight loss program like, today. 

Dr. Now's not bullshitting when he tells patients, you need to get serious about this program or you are going to die. Of course he's not going to waste resources by performing super-risky bariatric surgery on 600+ pound patients who have not bought into an overall weight loss program. But IMO he probably makes a judgment call that while patient X isn't a textbook case of progress in therapy etc., the patient has managed to follow instructions and lose a targeted amount of weight, and assuming there aren't any other big obstacles, the patient gets the surgery. Which will give the patient a fighting chance to get their weight down out of the super morbidly obese range, and to add some years - hopefully healthier years - to their life. In which to continue whatever therapy they need. We've seen just this season, the range of possible outcomes, from amazing success to gut-wrenching delusional "I'm doing something else instead of Dr. Now's program" which IMO means failure. Different folks, different mindsets, different results.

The opening credits disclose that a very small percentage of super morbidly obese people succeed at significant weight loss. Dr. Now is, or at least was, one of the few surgeons in the US even willing to perform WLS on people this size. In that sense he must spend his professional life fighting a lot of losing battles. The odds are against his patients in so many ways. The clock is ticking, the months are flying by, and there just isn't time to put these patients through very intensive therapy before getting them knuckled down into a weight loss program hopefully assisted by WLS. You can't do intensive therapy with a corpse.

I believe he takes a responsible approach to accepting patients and in what he requires patients to do before being approved for surgery. I'm sure it's not perfect, and not pretty. It's life vs. death, and that seldom is.

You make some good points, Jeeves, and it can be a Catch-22 situation. The less mentally-unhealthy among them can succeed at changing their behavior with food, and live to do the psychotherapy needed to complete their journey to get healthy. The more mentally-unhealthy ones, like Jeanne and Sean, cannot change their behavior with food; they are too psychologically dependent upon it. And if they are older and/or very far gone, then as you say, they may not live long enough to do the intensive therapy they would need to change their behavior. And so, unless they could be kept in a controlled environment for longer periods of time, they end up stuck on their march toward death.

I believe food dependency/addiction is one of the worse to break free from, because unlike drugs and alcohol, you cannot remove it from your life. It's like an alcoholic who would be forced to become a social drinker. 😔

[junemeatcleaver]

Quote

Stress from what?  I don’t understand what about their life is stressful. 

And it’s not just people on this show, it seems like everyone I meet or talked to at work has “anxiety” or is “ soooo stressed”that their doctors are prescribing Xanax and such. I worked a fairly tough job, especially the last couple of years, but never felt so stressed that I needed to get medication.

Anxiety (generalized anxiety disorder) is real and can stress people out whether they work or see other people can soldier through it or not.  Add in the trauma most of the participants have gone through, they probably are stressed.  If folks need meds, hopefully in conjunction with therapy, that doesn't make them deficient somehow or liars imo.  But mileage varies and all that jazz.

This is an odd show in a way.  They need super morbidly obese people to keep the show going, but a number of those people are either incredibly emotionally or mentally damaged, ill (both physically and mentally) or set in their ways to succeed in losing weight.  And TLC needs their "freaks" so they're not going to only cast folks they believe will work the program.  It's kind of sad.

[fonfereksglen]

Not every period of anxiety, stress, mild sadness or trauma requires major pharma intervention.  Nor random therapy to qualify for major pharma.  What a strange world we have become.

[PradaKitty]

Jeanne has been fat ALL. HER. LIFE.  

She said she weighed 100 pounds when she was SIX. YEARS. OLD. That is when her problems should have been addressed. 

[ProTourist]

55 minutes ago, PradaKitty said:

Jeanne has been fat ALL. HER. LIFE.  

She said she weighed 100 pounds when she was SIX. YEARS. OLD. That is when her problems should have been addressed. 

Barbara said she tried to address Jeanne's weight issues as a child. If she was telling the truth, she took her to nutritionists, counselors, but nothing helped.

[aliya]

3 hours ago, Suzywriter said:

I doubt that they have any clean bedding. When a person passes, they usually release urine and feces...I am horrified at the thought.

My stepfather died at home from lung cancer. My son and his friend had come for a last visit and my mother made them take the mattress down to the trash room (big apartment building).  She was not going to sleep on that.

I can't figure out how to add another quote after submitting one, but anyway...

I understand how folks might feel that TLC is looking for the drama rather than people who will work the program, but I will say this - I think everyone - Dr Now, the crew, the obesee selection team, the obesee, think that they will work the program and wind up better off. What we often end up seeing, however, is the reality of individuals who are 600+ lbs and usually have a lot of other problems besides eating, whether it's spouse/partner issues or a need for some in-depth counseling to deal with the major trauma in their lives.

I certainly think that Dr. Now is accepting obesees so that they have a chance to live. Yeah, there is drama, but he isn't doing these surgeries for the drama.

Edited March 15, 2019 by aliya
eta - more thoughts

[KateHearts]

3 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

Re: lack of seasoning: I can see salt being off limits while these folks are in the hospital on the restricted diet because it increases blood pressure and causes fluid retention.

Not to be overly technical, but only about 25% of people are truly salt-sensitive (i.e., their blood pressure is affected by eating salt.) I do think that most of these people are so used to eating over-seasoned fast food (highly salted)  that they really don't know what the actual food tastes like. But sure, bring on the herbs, pepper, flavorings like curry powder, celery powder, garlic, etc.  I'm a little tired of seeing them eat awful looking boiled chicken, plain vegetables and salads that are comprised of only lettuce and some sort of sad "diet dressing."

As for the counseling, my sister had a gastric sleeve procedure and it took her the better part of a year to get approved: group and individual counseling, and a liquid diet for a couple of months before they would proceed. And the counseling was to continue after surgery, including support groups; she was also followed closely by diet counselors and given a specific diet to follow.  Although these people are in dire straits and need to lose yesterday, they are also less self-aware and less aware of the nutritional value (and sometimes detriment) of the foods they eat and the impact on their health and bodies. So to me, the counseling should start at the first Dr. Now visit, as well as an appointment with a dietitian and lots and lots of handouts (we see him hand them a single sheet of paper: "follow the 1200 calorie, low carbohydrate high protein diet.")- which to many of them is probably as meaningful as someone giving them instructions in Chinese.

I hope that perhaps the initial visits are more comprehensive and that, for the sake of television, we are seeing a bare bones edit.  But I would be very interested to watch a more in-depth initial visit. It's all become way too formulaic and repetitive.

[Friday]

8 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I've also noticed those prescription med bottles in several episodes. Without explanation. I can't believe that none of these patients, for example, are Type 2 diabetics at those enormous weights with Lord knows what havoc has been wreaked on their metabolism and the insulin-triggering levels of carbs they're constantly eating. But IIRC we've seldom if ever seen that issue addressed on the show. 

I have first hand experience with depression. More than once. It's the very devil to experience, and can be the very devil to treat. The only thing they can do with drugs is to put you on one and wait weeks to see how - or if - you respond. In my case, after a week or two on Prozac I ended up in the bathroom at 2 AM being copiously sick. My doc cheerfully said, "yes that often will happen but we just have to give you the med and see if it does." Yikes. Other antidepressant drugs either made no difference or left me so spaced out I couldn't function. They never found my magic pill although I was on one med for a few years - because it wasn't obviously harming me, I could function, I figured it might be helping, and no way in hell was I going to get labeled as one of those "treatment resistant" problem patients. So I took my meds like a good girl. And gained weight I still have. Bah.

Based on my experience, I get irritated when people seem to think that docs can just toss a scrip at a depressed patient and make things all better. [Not saying that anyone has done that on this forum. Just to be clear.] No matter if they weigh 100 pounds or 650 pounds. It's great when those pills work, but they don't always by any means.

I had the same experience with depression meds.  Prozac was the first, did nothing to help, then began my depression med "journey," finally ended up on Wellbutrin which helped a lot, plus did not, fortunately, cause weight gain.  No longer take any meds, and do well, except for SAD in the winter, which was particularly bad this year.  California finally is drought free for the first time in 10 years, which made for a very dark, gloomy, and wet winter.  I'm just now coming out of it.

[ams1001]

16 hours ago, ZeldaZee said:

Those "lepers" didn't have a say in the matter and frankly their stories are far more inspiring than yours.

Fun fact: approximately 95% of the population has a natural immunity to leprosy.

[DC Gal in VA]

7 hours ago, ProTourist said:

Yes, this is why I think they need the poundicipants' boot camp, including the food journal that they'd bring with them to each doctor appointment, similar to the way a diabetic brings along his/her meter. Of course, the meter like the scale does not lie, and a person could write down lies in a journal, but I do think it would help many of them.

ProTourist ITA but I would like to add one more thing. Every time I watch M600PL I fantasize about showing these folks how to cook, in particular that food can taste good AND be good for you. It pains me to see week after week the sad, often unappetizing meals our poundticipants are preparing, and they always have that same hang dog expression of misery as they cook and eat their Dr. Now approved meal. Also many, perhaps most, will say the same thing, something like "This is not what I really want to eat, but I HAVE to do it if I want to get approved for weight loss surgery." We see the same sad shit: bagged salads, broccoli, boneless skinless chicken breasts; wash rinse repeat.

From reading the comments of fellow Pounders here who have had WLS, I know that these folks get information/counseling from a dietician/nutritionist at the beginning and aren't just given a diet and told "good luck." However, I have seen that a lot of these nutritionists aren't exactly foodies. For instance, I do low carb high protein to lose weight, however some of the meal suggestions by low carb nutritionists are positively gagtastic. Here's one nutritionist's suggestion for a low carb snack: several sheets of nori (pressed seaweed) and a few strawberries. Seriously. I mean, WTF? BTW, not knocking seaweed because I love sushi.

I cook, or prepare in the case of protein shakes, all of my meals/snacks and I loathe unappetizing, bland food. I use all kinds of recipes and ingredients to make my food appetizing. Also, I am not stuck in just eating American cuisine and love to cook foods from other cultures.

I would love, for a reasonable fee, to cook tasty meals and snacks for them and show them how easy it is to do that for themselves.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, iwasish said:

Stress from what?  I don’t understand what about their life is stressful.

Poverty is a major stress factor. Combine that with isolation and mental illness and poor coping skills and I'd say Jeanne was living a pretty stressful life. 

[newyawk]

6 hours ago, iwasish said:

As far as the grandma making her smoke... I’ve always heard smoking kills the appetite, maybe it was an uneducated attempt by granny to curb her appetite?

Jeanne said it was specifically used as a punishment, along with being beaten with hangers.

[LuvMyShows]

5 hours ago, ProTourist said:

Barbara said she tried to address Jeanne's weight issues as a child. If she was telling the truth, she took her to nutritionists, counselors, but nothing helped.

Yes, but "taking" Jeanne to see them is not the same as Barbara actually doing what they said, which is my suspicion of what happened.

[newyawk]

Barbara was working two jobs, she wouldn't have had much time to run her around to nutritionists and monitor her eating.

[AVM]

2 hours ago, DC Gal in VA said:

ProTourist ITA but I would like to add one more thing. Every time I watch M600PL I fantasize about showing these folks how to cook, in particular that food can taste good AND be good for you. It pains me to see week after week the sad, often unappetizing meals our poundticipants are preparing, and they always have that same hang dog expression of misery as they cook and eat their Dr. Now approved meal. Also many, perhaps most, will say the same thing, something like "This is not what I really want to eat, but I HAVE to do it if I want to get approved for weight loss surgery." We see the same sad shit: bagged salads, broccoli, boneless skinless chicken breasts; wash rinse repeat.

From reading the comments of fellow Pounders here who have had WLS, I know that these folks get information/counseling from a dietician/nutritionist at the beginning and aren't just given a diet and told "good luck." However, I have seen that a lot of these nutritionists aren't exactly foodies. For instance, I do low carb high protein to lose weight, however some of the meal suggestions by low carb nutritionists are positively gagtastic. Here's one nutritionist's suggestion for a low carb snack: several sheets of nori (pressed seaweed) and a few strawberries. Seriously. I mean, WTF? BTW, not knocking seaweed because I love sushi.

I cook, or prepare in the case of protein shakes, all of my meals/snacks and I loathe unappetizing, bland food. I use all kinds of recipes and ingredients to make my food appetizing. Also, I am not stuck in just eating American cuisine and love to cook foods from other cultures.

I would love, for a reasonable fee, to cook tasty meals and snacks for them and show them how easy it is to do that for themselves.

Do a YouTube show

[AVM]

1 hour ago, newyawk said:

Jeanne said it was specifically used as a punishment, along with being beaten with hangers.

Jeanne said wire hangers,her Mother said the Grandmother used wooded spoons as her weapon of choice on Jeanne .

[DNR]

The first scene i thought oh Jeanne has a pretty face and listening to her childhood story i had sympathy.  But her demeanor changed drastically at DrNow’s office and i thought its hard to root for this brat . I realize she’s in need of mental help but grrrrr she was a whiner!

Cannot imagine the stench that must have emitted from No-hi-Jeanne’s hind quarters . 🤢🤮

Those poor pups ! Living in filth . Jeanne was walking around by the end of the episode , she couldn’t take a *Swiffer to the walls or sponge off the fan , pick up some of the shit off the floors ( i wonder if the dogs started tearing things up when the father passed and they were alone & hungry ?)  Sorry but that’s pure laziness.  Jeanne & mom will die soon in those 4 walls of filth. She’ll NEVER lose the weight. 

[LeesburgLee]

On 3/14/2019 at 12:55 PM, Mrs. Hanson said:

People like her are why I went to only two support meetings afterwards:  The constant whining about not being able to bang down three Whoppers and a sheet cake made them sad.  Really?  You didn't catch on to the fact that you will never engage in that behavior again?  People told you, you just thought you would be different.  There.....rant over.

Yes! I didn’t have WLS, but I was in a hospital-administered weight loss liquid diet program years ago. The liquid diet wasn’t fun, but the mandatory group counseling sessions were the worst part of the experience. The whining was unreal. One woman told us how she’d taken most of the food out of the house so she wouldn’t be tempted and was making her husband take himself and their children out for dinner every night while she was in the program! It was like she didn’t realize she’d have to learn to control herself and her portions for the rest of her life, not just hide from food for twelve weeks and problem solved.

[silverspoons]

Sorry if this has been discussed, I tried to read through and see if it was.  How did her parents gets back together? She said he mom was a single working mom and her grandmother cared for her and her mom's boy friend abused her, so where was her dad? and how did he come to live with her and he mom again? I guess I must have missed that part of the story as I was trying to figure out with all that stuff why the walls were bare. At least put up a few pictures or better yet paint the walls a dark color so the stains do not show up as bad. 

I wonder why it seemed like Jeanne seem so cut off from the world for 10 years. Then I saw it was Big Sandy, TX. I have been looking for a city to move to for the last year and my son has epilepsy so good internet is a must and it is surprising how many cities do not have decent internet and some have none. I remember looking up Big Sandy after seeing some Duggar family buy a cheap house there and it does not have good internet access, Over half the homes do not have access(to cable to dsl) except via your phone or one of the usage sensitive satellite services. 

[Desert Rat]

I've always had a lot of respect for Dr. Now, but after his show, my respect has doubled or tripled.  Barbara was not his even his patient.  Yet when she mentioned her stomach pain, he asked what was going on. He didn't have to do that. And without blinking an eye, he sent her to the hospital and performed what looked like a pretty complex surgery.  She wasn't even his patient.  He took her on because he is such a decent person.  He probably did it all for very little money. Then, when her husband dies, Dr. Now arranged medical transport for a four hour drive. Insurance is not going to pay for that. I bet Dr. Now did himself. 

And how does precious Jeanne react?  Is she grateful for his kindness and care? Is she thankful Dr. Now saved her mother's, her sole caregiver, life?  Nope. She just wants to go home to eat. Jeanne hates people, as she hold us repeatedly. Dr. Now is no exception. 

Jeanne, honey, you are NOT a piece of furniture. Nope.  Furniture serves an important purpose. It supports people and stores belongings. But you, Jeanne have no purpose. You are a drain on everyone around you. You are killing your mother because the constant care you require is too much for your ailing, elderly mother to handle.  You probably contributed to your father's untimely demise.  Also, furniture does not spend hundreds of dollars a week on food.

Go ahead Jeanne, lay in the stinky bed and wait for that great opportunity "get your life back." I'm sure the unicorns will be at your day any day now. Curse Dr. Now and his damn diet. Can't he see you are special and really trying.  Can't he wave his magic wand and get rid of the fat.  

Edited March 16, 2019 by Desert Rat

[parrotfeathers]

4 hours ago, silverspoons said:

and how did he come to live with her and he mom again? I guess I must have missed that part of the story as I was

Because Jeanne "forgave" him for his transgressions she allegedly suffered so he moved back in to help them.  So it really was all about her.

[DC Gal in VA]

1 hour ago, Desert Rat said:

I've always had a lot of respect for Dr. Now, but after his show, my respect has doubled or tripled.  Barbara was not his even his patient.  Yet when she mentioned her stomach pain, he asked what was going on. He didn't have to do that. And without blinking an eye, he sent her to the hospital and performed what looked like a pretty complex surgery.  She wasn't even his patient.  He took her on because he is such a decent person.  He probably did it all for very little money. Then, when her husband dies, Dr. Now arranged medical transport for a four hour drive. Insurance is not going to pay for that. I bet Dr. Now did himself. 

And how does precious Jeanne react?  Is she grateful for his kindness and care? Is she thankful Dr. Now saved her mother's, her sole caregiver, life?  Nope. She just wants to go home to eat. Jeanne hates people, as she hold us repeatedly. Dr. Now is no exception. 

Jeanne, honey, you are NOT a piece of furniture. Nope.  Furniture serves an important purpose. It supports people and stores belongings. But you, Jeanne have no purpose. You are a drain on everyone around you. You are killing your mother because the constant care you require is too much for your ailing, elderly mother to handle.  You probably contributed to your father's untimely demise.  Also, furniture does not spend hundreds of dollars a week on food.

Go ahead Jeanne, lay in the stinky bed and wait for that great opportunity "get your life back." I'm sure the unicorns will be at your day any day now. Curse Dr. Now and his damn diet. Can't he see you are special and really trying.  Can't he wave his magic wand and get rid of the fat.  

Yes, yes, yes a thousand times yes to everything you said!

[satrunrose]

This episode made me really sad. This show always says that the participants aren't long for this world, but a lot of them have reported being 300 pounds + for decades and they're still, somehow, seemingly mostly okay aside from pain (although I do understand that mobile vs bed bound makes a huge difference). Jeanne was the first one where I thought, she's not going to be here in a year. Two infections that required hospitalization in 3-4 months? And she isn't going to be in regular contact with a doctor anymore? Her mom's too sick even to clean her poorly now. Then there's poor Jeanne's mom who may not even last that long between trauma (broken heart syndrome), insufficient healing time in hospital, and caring for Jeanne before she's healthy enough to. It was really hard to watch, especially because as Dr Now said, he was throwing her a rope but because it didn't align to Jeanne's vague/poorly articulated version of what help means, she chucked the rope over the cliff and was/is just lying there dying (and I fear taking her mom with her)

Speaking of depressingly enmeshed relationships, was Jeanne the only one to say "My Mom and I have been working really hard". Every. single. time? I don't think even Sean spoke that way about Mommy Dearest. 

Jeanne said something after the gas station incident about how much better it would be if people accepted people like her as members of society. I don't actually disagree with her, but I wondered, is Jeanne actually a member of society at this point? Does she have a community? She dropped out of high school, never worked and stopped going to church. There's not even any evidence that she's spending time in a gaming or on-line community. It's so sad to be that isolated and not be willing to use what little help is available to at least have a chance.

[Hana Chan]

Jeanne is, unquestionably, a master manipulator. I'm not going to debate that she went through some real hardships early in her life, including suffering abuse from her grandmother and being sexually molested. But that doesn't justify who she's become as an adult. She uses these events as excuses, to try to explain why she's allowed herself to weigh nearly 700 pounds. She takes responsibility for absolutely nothing, and refuses to do anything to try to better her situation. She allows her mother, who's own health is very poor, to wait on her hand and foot and contributes nothing more to the household than her disability check (which I assume goes primarily to feeding her). 

She plays upon whatever guilt her parents have to get her way, even though they know that it's not in her best interest. This allows her a never-ending supply of food, soda, cigarettes and labor. For all her complaints about how she hates her life, she refuses to experience the least amount of hardship or discomfort in order to change it. Just like she expects her mother to always be there to wipe her ass and empty her commode, she expects someone else to fix whatever is wrong in her life. The fact that Dr. Now expected her to put in the hard work and make fundamental changes in her life so that whatever he does for her medically has a chance of being successful was too much for her to handle. 

Even treating that festering mass on her leg was a fight, because she's rather be a helpless victim of circumstance than put in the effort to fix the problem. Being in the hospital where she can't do what she wants and can't bully the staff into giving her more food than she should have was such an ordeal that she'd rather endure the pain and risk of that infection than let it heal properly. Self-destructive doesn't even begin to cover this.

Dr. Now is, very likely, the first person that entered her life that she couldn't manipulate or fool and rather than get that eureka moment that just maybe it's her own behaviors that put her in this mess, she fights against making any kind of real changes in her life and after months, is in a worse position than she was when she started. She still expect that there is a solution for her that will require no real effort on her part that will solve all her problems. Expect that there isn't. So she'll continue this downward spiral and likely drag her mother down with her. It's heartbreaking, but my sympathy isn't for Jeanne. It's for those around her who don't have the strength to walk away and save themselves.

[DC Gal in VA]

6 hours ago, silverspoons said:

Sorry if this has been discussed, I tried to read through and see if it was.  How did her parents gets back together? She said he mom was a single working mom and her grandmother cared for her and her mom's boy friend abused her, so where was her dad? and how did he come to live with her and he mom again? I guess I must have missed that part of the story as I was trying to figure out with all that stuff why the walls were bare. At least put up a few pictures or better yet paint the walls a dark color so the stains do not show up as bad. 

I wonder why it seemed like Jeanne seem so cut off from the world for 10 years. Then I saw it was Big Sandy, TX. I have been looking for a city to move to for the last year and my son has epilepsy so good internet is a must and it is surprising how many cities do not have decent internet and some have none. I remember looking up Big Sandy after seeing some Duggar family buy a cheap house there and it does not have good internet access, Over half the homes do not have access(to cable to dsl) except via your phone or one of the usage sensitive satellite services. 

Unless I missed it while trying to watch, post, and react during the Live Chat, I don't recall how long he had been back in their lives either silverspoons. Nor did the show actually address why they were separated in the first place. I do remember that the mom, Barbara, saying right after his death that they had been together for 40 years and that she never expected that he wouldn't be there after her surgery. That completely broke my heart. As someone here observed, that seems to mean that since Jeanne is 39, Barbara was a teen mom when she had her. Overall, so very sad.

Edited March 16, 2019 by DC Gal in VA
Typo.

[Hana Chan]

19 minutes ago, satrunrose said:

There's not even any evidence that she's spending time in a gaming or on-line community. It's so sad to be that isolated and not be willing to use what little help is available to at least have a chance.

I didn't even see her crack a book. She would just lay in that chair with her balloon-shaped feet up and stare at the ceiling, bemoaning about how awful her life is. When I was at my worst in my clinical depressive state, I would absolutely bury my face in books as an escape from the things that were upsetting me. 

I'm rewatching Jeanne's first interaction with Dr. Now and it's striking that when he asked why she eats the way she does, she immediately launches into the litany of excuses (the abuse) and he just didn't buy it. He was trying to make her see that the surgery wasn't a quick fix, you could see her mentally and physically closing off. There is no helping Jeanne because she's still looking for someone to solve her problems for her. It's never fun to watch someone continue a spiral of self-destruction, but it's hard to feel sympathy for someone who refuses to do anything to help herself.

[Desert Rat]

16 hours ago, junemeatcleaver said:

Anxiety (generalized anxiety disorder) is real and can stress people out whether they work or see other people can soldier through it or not.  Add in the trauma most of the participants have gone through, they probably are stressed.  If folks need meds, hopefully in conjunction with therapy, that doesn't make them deficient somehow or liars imo.  But mileage varies and all that jazz.

This is an odd show in a way.  They need super morbidly obese people to keep the show going, but a number of those people are either incredibly emotionally or mentally damaged, ill (both physically and mentally) or set in their ways to succeed in losing weight.  And TLC needs their "freaks" so they're not going to only cast folks they believe will work the program.  It's kind of sad.

As they say in the beginning of the show, there is only 5% chance of long-term success for the super, grossly, morbidly obese. So it can't be that hard for TLC to find the difficult cases. After all, you have to have  a pathological relationship with food to get that big. The relatively healthy patients are the rare exception. Like Dr. Now says, you don't get to be 600 pounds by eating large portions and snacking. That's how you get to be 200 or 250.  To get to 600 pounds, you need to eat something like 10,000 calories or more a day.  I'm somewhat overweight, but I can't eat that much even on thanksgiving. 

[Twopper]

15 minutes ago, DC Gal in VA said:

Unless I missed it while trying to watch, post, and react during the Live Chat, I don't recall how long he had been back in their lives either silverspoons. Nor did the show actually address why they were separated in the first place. I do remember the the mom, Barbara, saying right after his death that they had been together for 40 years and that she never expected that he wouldn't be there after her surgery. That completely broke my heart. As someone here observed, that seems to mean that since Jeanne is 39, Barbara was a teen mom when she had her. Overall, so very sad.

Yes, I was speculating that Barbara had a teen pregnancy, and for some reason the dad either didn't stick around or was run off by the grandmother.   Jeanne said she heard a sermon on forgiveness and called him, and he moved in with them.  I think she said  was 29 when she heard the sermon or else I figured that out based on the years and ages she was giving.  I erased it from the dvr, but I see the supersized version is scheduled in a few days.  Not sure I can take a supersized Jeane.  Oh wait, she already is supersized.  

This may be one of the most depressing episodes ever.  

[DC Gal in VA]

1 minute ago, Twopper said:

Yes, I was speculating that Barbara had a teen pregnancy, and for some reason the dad either didn't stick around or was run off by the grandmother.   Jeanne said she heard a sermon on forgiveness and called him, and he moved in with them.  I think she said  was 29 when she heard the sermon or else I figured that out based on the years and ages she was giving.  I erased it from the dvr, but I see the supersized version is scheduled in a few days.  Not sure I can take a supersized Jeane.  Oh wait, she already is supersized.  

This may be one of the most depressing episodes ever.  

Isn't it scary how old and worn out she looked Twopper at an estimated age of only 55 years old!? When I first saw her I thought that she was in her late sixties at least but probably in her seventies. Not a vibrant, healthy, socially active and engaged person in their sixties or seventies of whom I know many, but a worn down by her daughter's selfishness and guilt trips person of those ages. Again, how sad is that!?

[libgirl2]

11 minutes ago, DC Gal in VA said:

Isn't it scary how old and worn out she looked Twopper at an estimated age of only 55 years old!? When I first saw her I thought that she was in her late sixties at least but probably in her seventies. Not a vibrant, healthy, socially active and engaged person in their sixties or seventies of whom I know many, but a worn down by her daughter's selfishness and guilt trips person of those ages. Again, how sad is that!?

Geez, I'm 52 and she looks like she could be my mother.

[AZChristian]

All we hear is how "hard" it is to follow the program.

So . . . spending 10 hours a day eating, not being able to buy decent clothing, constant pain in the joints, not being able to handle personal hygiene (including toileting), having no friends, being completely isolated, having multiple infections in the skin folds, etc., etc., etc.  is easier?

[zillabreeze]

53 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

I didn't even see her crack a book. She would just lay in that chair with her balloon-shaped feet up and stare at the ceiling, bemoaning about how awful her life is. When I was at my worst in my clinical depressive state, I would absolutely bury my face in books as an escape from the things that were upsetting me. 

I'm rewatching Jeanne's first interaction with Dr. Now and it's striking that when he asked why she eats the way she does, she immediately launches into the litany of excuses (the abuse) and he just didn't buy it. He was trying to make her see that the surgery wasn't a quick fix, you could see her mentally and physically closing off. There is no helping Jeanne because she's still looking for someone to solve her problems for her. It's never fun to watch someone continue a spiral of self-destruction, but it's hard to feel sympathy for someone who refuses to do anything to help herself.

Damn the mods won't give me anymore hearts to like this!  As an asshole teenager, angst ridden young adult, and weirdo boomer- books have always kept me off the ledge.

Books were (and still are) the great escape and possible path out of life's darknesses.   But when was the last time you saw someone on public transportation or in a resto holding a book?  If you did, that was probably me.

So, I'm not a dinosaur.  Things change. I love my screens and have a bunch of them!   I realize it's different now, and really so much for the better as far as information!

These people have the WHOLE WORLD at their finger tips!  The most current info and opinions out there!   If you are bedridden and immobile, how do you (even out of sheer boredom) not Google "how to lose weight"?

How do you spend your life staring at the ceiling, waiting for someone to wipe your ass and still not know the difference between a carb and a calorie?

It's not like they have to schlep to the library or go to the neighbor's house and borrow the Encyclopedia Britannica.

If you have no job, no place to be...how in hell do you sit there for days upon end and NOT be a nutritional genius?  Or at least a decent enough cook to make a palatable meal? 

[Twopper]

25 minutes ago, DC Gal in VA said:

Isn't it scary how old and worn out she looked Twopper at an estimated age of only 55 years old!? When I first saw her I thought that she was in her late sixties at least but probably in her seventies. Not a vibrant, healthy, socially active and engaged person in their sixties or seventies of whom I know many, but a worn down by her daughter's selfishness and guilt trips person of those ages. Again, how sad is that!?

I just guessed 55.  I know she looks older, but I think that is because she was so unhealthy and worn down.   I overheard someone I see fairly often (I am at her place of work fairly often) on the phone and she mentioned her mother's age.  I nearly fainted because I was sure this woman was at least a few years older than me (I am older than dirt), but when she mentioned her mother's age of 71, I realized she had to be in her 50's.   She had recently divorced after finding her husband had been unfaithful and had taken all her money.  This person I know and Barbara could be sisters as they look so much alike.

The grey hair + no makeup + bad infection  makes her look washed out and therefore older.  I am sure she isn't in her 70's; she could be early 60's but I really doubt it.  During one of the scenes I tried to imagine her with brown hair and make-up and in my mind at least she seemed about mid fifties.  I think I have watched too many episodes of What not to Wear and other make-over shows. 

[zillabreeze]

48 minutes ago, Desert Rat said:

As they say in the beginning of the show, there is only 5% chance of long-term success for the super, grossly, morbidly obese.

I've known two people, one lapband, one gastric.  Both blew through them.  Otherwise, very intelligent, productive, likeable women.

[newyawk]

10 hours ago, AVM said:

Jeanne said wire hangers,her Mother said the Grandmother used wooded spoons as her weapon of choice on Jeanne .

It was probably both, whatever was handy at the time. 

[newyawk]

2 hours ago, parrotfeathers said:

Because Jeanne "forgave" him for his transgressions she allegedly suffered so he moved back in to help them.  So it really was all about her.

Her father was schizophrenic. It cannot have been easy to live with him, even before he abandoned them, which is a pretty serious transgression.

[Twopper]

13 hours ago, DC Gal in VA said:

I would like to add one more thing. Every time I watch M600PL I fantasize about showing these folks how to cook, in particular that food can taste good AND be good for you. It pains me to see week after week the sad, often unappetizing meals our poundticipants are preparing, and they always have that same hang dog expression of misery as they cook and eat their Dr. Now approved meal. Also many, perhaps most, will say the same thing, something like "This is not what I really want to eat, but I HAVE to do it if I want to get approved for weight loss surgery." We see the same sad shit: bagged salads, broccoli, boneless skinless chicken breasts; wash rinse repeat.

From reading the comments of fellow Pounders here who have had WLS, I know that these folks get information/counseling from a dietician/nutritionist at the beginning and aren't just given a diet and told "good luck." However, I have seen that a lot of these nutritionists aren't exactly foodies. For instance, I do low carb high protein to lose weight, however some of the meal suggestions by low carb nutritionists are positively gagtastic. Here's one nutritionist's suggestion for a low carb snack: several sheets of nori (pressed seaweed) and a few strawberries. Seriously. I mean, WTF? BTW, not knocking seaweed because I love sushi.

I cook, or prepare in the case of protein shakes, all of my meals/snacks and I loathe unappetizing, bland food. I use all kinds of recipes and ingredients to make my food appetizing. Also, I am not stuck in just eating American cuisine and love to cook foods from other cultures. 

I would love, for a reasonable fee, to cook tasty meals and snacks for them and show them how easy it is to do that for themselves.

Come and sit beside me, because I would love to watch that show with you.

At the least I would like to see them given a  monthly eating guide.  A big calendar with what to eat for breakfast, lunch and dinner every day.    With portion sizes and a calorie count.  I know I saw one of the episodes where the nutritionist came and showed the person portion sizes and how to measure them.   I don't know if you remember Richard Simmons and his "Deal a Meal" diet plan.  I always liked the ad for it because he said if you followed the plan you would know when you are "done eating" for the day.   I try to remember that when I have eaten more than normal during the day so at night I will have very little for dinner.   Usually if I have over-eaten I don't want an evening meal,  but if I am tempted I always hear his voice in my head reminding me I am "done eating."

This probably belongs in another thread, but it is related to Barbara's comment that she took Jeanne to a nutritionist.  Or that she went to a nutritionist for information.  There would have been no reason to take Jeanne with her.  And since Barbara was working 2 jobs she probably found it easier to do fast food or convinced her self cheap fattening food was cheaper than buying healthy foods at the store.  Big Sandy is probably too small to have Weight Watchers, but I would think there is one nearby in Gladewater.  And definitely in Tyler or Longview.  So maybe if Barbara gets healthier at least she might be motivated to get her own health in order even if Jeanne won't.

I agree that it was great of Dr Now to take such good care of Barbara.  I think as a doctor he would be obligated to either do it himself or at least refer her to another doctor for care.   Jeanne sure seemed to resent his attention to her mom.

I read that in the 70's and 80's Big Sandy was known at least in that part of Texas for its needlework  business (Mr Twopper's cousin lives in Longview and does lots of that type of thing) so I guess that is where Jeanne got into doing the needle work craft she was shown doing.  Not sure if she did that regularly or if that was just fluff for the show.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Twopper
because "to" and "too" are different

[Elizzikra]

1 hour ago, zillabreeze said:

Books were (and still are) the great escape and possible path out of life's darknesses.   But when was the last time you saw someone on public transportation or in a resto holding a book?  If you did, that was probably me.

Or me, but I read them on my phone or iPad.

[DC Gal in VA]

On 3/15/2019 at 12:03 PM, LuvMyShows said:

The part about the whining for Whoppers and sheet cake really made the point clear, and got me to wondering something...do these people think that everyone eats that much so they should be able to as well, and that's why they are sad/resentful/unwilling and think it's unfair, because now they are unable to?  Or do they think that other people don't eat that much, but they should be able to, because of whatever unfairness life has thrown at them?  

Likewise, with the flip side, do they see people of more desirable weight, and not recognize that those people also work hard at it?  It's not just them who are being asked to work hard...it's everyone who wants to be healthy and of a healthy weight.

And for the love of all that is holy, how on earth, in this day and age, could anyone think that surgery will magically fix it or that it's easy?  As someone said elsewhere in this thread, it's like they think that they just have to get to Dr. Now's office, and then he takes over for responsibility.  I truly don't understand.  Did someone they know have surgery, and then get to keep eating as much as they wanted?  Doubtful.  They certainly didn't watch M600PL and come away thinking they'll be able to eat whatever they want or that it's easy.  And I've never seen an article that implies it.  So where do they get that notion from, especially given that it's actually counter to whatever they would see/read/encounter?  I guess it's just the power of mind over matter, but in this case, gone disastrously wrong.

I noticed this and it really made me curious.  From what we saw at the start of the show, pretty much all the patients are as delusional and lying as Jeanne was.  But he doesn't light into them like he did to her.  So it makes me think there was more that we didn't see, to explain how angry he got.

First bolded part: Great observations LuvMyShows since I think that this is exactly what many poundticipants really believe. Boo hoo hoo, EVERYBODY gets to eat what they want and I am the only person on planet Earth who can't do that without gaining weight. Then there comes the whine-athon of which Jeanne was a master. Oh yes, absolutely, life was horribly unfair to her from when she was a little child, and I do not make light of this, but Jeanne is determined to use that awful abuse as an excuse to stuff herself, even using the death of her father to keep overeating.

I have to say as someone who has struggled with her weight, I used to throw myself pity parties along the same vein of "Look at what so-and-so can eat and be small. It ain't fair!" But I got over that shit because yeah life ain't fair, they can eat like that, but you can't so deal with it. Jeanne will never have that self-realization.

Second bolded part: I think there are several reasons he lit into her. Three of them we know about: Robert, Lisa and Sean, all dying way too young. How about all the ones we don't know about? Who knows how many of his patients died before their time as well? I think that may be the reason why he gets so angry, more so over these last couple of years, because I truly believe that it breaks his heart to give the Jeannes of this world the tools to lose weight and have a shot at a normal life and they just piss away that opportunity.

One would have to pry Jeanne's self-pity, guilting and bullying to get what she wants from her cold dead hands which, unfortunately, may come sooner rather than later.

Edited March 16, 2019 by DC Gal in VA
Clarifications.

[calpurnia99]

To be fair, think about the size of Jeanne's BMS-I don't think I'd be very good at getting every speck of that cleaned up. Sorry but it has to be 10x a normal bowel movement.  You are trying to move these giant ass cheeks out of the way to get in there. She is sitting on that commode with her giant ass and legs, so she is sitting in and on the shit.  You have some wet ones and towels but doing this every day? 

The only way to get all the feces off her is a shower, period.

Edited March 16, 2019 by calpurnia99

[FormeryHeavyJ]

Since I am in bed at 845 every night (in order to be up for the gym at 345am every day) I only see a part of the show and watch it again on the Optimum channel (the repeat channel on my cable package).  My wife and I saw this entire episode last night and I can honestly say that I have never been so disgusted in all my life.....with the exception of watching Hoarders.  How low must you sink to have a doctor tell two grown adults that their personal hygiene is a major issue in their health?  Holy poop Batman.  Cobwebs all over the walls.  Dirty laundry piled up on top of the washing machine and we all know exactly how much effort it takes to open lid, put stuff in, add soap, close lid, and push button to start.  

[PradaKitty]

I was amazed watching Jeanne pour salt (directly from the spout on the store container) on her food. I have no idea what that food must have tasted like buried under that mountain of salt!! 

I also loved how Barbara pointed out that they switched from regular soda to diet soda. Yeah... neither of them are good for you. I wonder how many diet sodas were consumed per day. (Keeping in mind how the massive salt intake probably causes unimaginable thirst!)

[zillabreeze]

14 hours ago, newyawk said:

Barbara was working two jobs, she wouldn't have had much time to run her around to nutritionists and monitor her eating.

Somebody went to the store and filled the kitchen with soda and crap food.  At six, Jeanne wasn't stocking the pantry.

There was a case (Dr.Phil, I think) where CPS had to take a child away because the parents were providing enough garbage to eat himself to death.  He was about 5 or 6, and I forget his weight, but it was shocking.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I've never seen anyone pour salt on their food with the spout on the huge salt container like that.   

I think Barbara is so used to making excuses for her daughter, and outright lying, that my guess is nothing was ever done about Jeanne and her issues.      Between Jeanne's eating, and smoking, I seriously don't see her surviving much longer, and if she drops a lit cigarette in the wrong place, then both women will be gone. 

Experts on hoarding class a true hoarder from level one (you can still see the floor, but there are piles of stuff in most rooms), up to the worst, a level five (that's the type on the TV clean up shows).   I would say Jeanne's trailer is about a three, but it's getting worse over the course of the show.        

Edited March 17, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama