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PrincessPurrsALot

S05.E11 Reevaluation Realness

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Jazz reevaluates her relationship with Ahmir after returning home from NYC.  Jeanette tries to convince Jazz to wait until she moves out of the house. Jazz and Jeanette's attempts to reassure parents of transgender kids about bottom surgery backfires. 

Original air date 2019.03.12

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Grandma was right about Jeanette and Jazz. I like Jazz but Jeanette is not very good about saying no to her so Jazz gets everything she wants WHEN she wants it. I'm sure with money from the show Jazz could afford to move out on her own but she has no life skills. Does she know how to do her own laundry.  If I had her money I would consider a nosejob. I'm Armenian and had a big nose and the unibrow.  I now have two eyebrows and a normal size nose. I just think a smaller nose would make her look more feminine.  No hate intended.

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Wow....can Jazz do anything without her mother?   I can just see when Jazz has sex for the first time.  Her mom will be right beside her, guiding her....🙄

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First, let me get this off my chest.  I absolutely hate that Haribo Goldbears commercial.   

Dear Jazz, from what we see on tv about Ahmir--girl, he's just not that into you.   He's had his 15 minutes (actually probably longer) on tv, and I suspect he has a streak of con artist in him. 

About moving out.  First take a job house sitting for someone for a weekend.  Then house sit for someone else.  Rinse and repeat.  This will give you a taste of freedom without most of the responsibility, but you can still bring your laundry home.

I am not sure she is ready for living on her own at college, either.  Or maybe I am not sure she really wants to go yet. 

She definitely need to listen to her grandparents about moving out as should Jeanette;  I loved grandma Jackie calling Jeanette a "fluff."

I am with Grandpa as to his views about psychics.  This wasn't really a cold reading, as the psychic was, I am sure, following all the members of the Jennings clan on social media.

I actually liked the support group for victims of bullying, although I am not sure what I thought about parents being there.  Of course, this session was for tv so maybe in real life the sessions are a bit different.  

I know Jazz wants to continue to be an advocate, but right now she is a big fish in a small pond of trans teens.  I am not sure how well her advocacy will translate into being a trans spokesman for the general population of transgenders. 

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Can the show just be Jazz's grandparents smacking Jazz's mom with a reality backhand about just giving in to her daughter all the time? I've seen, like, four episodes and I already know that. Case in point? That tattoo that Jazz has, which she would have needed a parent there for (assuming she had it done in Florida). Both the Archangel Michael - who is channeling through me for this post - and I are shocked that her mom keeps putting her foot down about this moving out business.

Also shocking this episode was Jazz's ability to slouch like a bump on a log in the front seat of a moving vehicle, that choker her Mom was wearing, and the way Jazz's friends arrange themselves in such a perfect diagonal line while facing Jazz for a friendly on camera conversation. 

Jazz's Friend: "I think the youth are, like, our future." Even Archangel Michael is raising an eyebrow to that comment.

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LOVED the grandparents in this one! First Jackie calling Jeanette “fluff” and then Jack basically saying that psychics are scam artists. 

Did anyone else notice that there were only about 15 people watching that Facebook Live thing? 😂

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I actually regret watching this episode. Jazz is a "spoiled fairy princess" millenial who just got a brand-new vagina to play with and since she's a TV star, she wants an apartment on the beach --not a dorm room. 

Yawwwwn...

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I feel like Jazz has become so spoiled that she no longer bothers to put any effort into her manipulation of her mother. “A psychic agrees with me” has to be an all-time low, though I did enjoy Jeanette finally showing some frustration with Jazz’s overly calm we’re-all-reasonable-adults-here demeanor.

“What’s stopping you from letting me do what makes me happy?”

”My common sense.”

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Jeanette comes off like a pusher about the surgery. She vacillates from this is such a rare complication to Jazz is one of the first to be so suppressed and have this surgery, this could be super common for people who are so suppressed. I think Jeanette is worried that she championed children being suppressed early and it may not have been a good idea.

I was like who is going to pay for this "day camp" and then we saw in the preview all it looked like was balloons and a folding table. I don't see the purpose in this day camp other than a vanity project for Jazz. I thought she gave some good advice at the support group and I was like maybe shes maturing and it doesn't have to be all about Jazz and then she named the camp after herself.

I've gone completely 180 on the whole moving out thing, I say let her do it on a short term basis with a limited amount of money, get Jazz to do out a budget with how much she needs and give her that out of her savings. They've been so lax on boundaries, I think Jazz needs to learn some hard lessons on her own. Jeanette should have put her foot down on a lot of other stuff over the years but IMHO seemed to treat Jazz with kid gloves because of the perceived suicide risk, even on fundamentals like therapy.

I'm assuming that when Jazz had the surgery, they removed the blocker in her arm too, right? Even when testicles are removed, the adrenal glands make small amounts of testosterone, so she wouldn't even have the same level as other women who also get testosterone from their ovaries but I was wondering if the small amount shes finally getting is part of whats making her so horny all of a sudden.

I'm just bored with the whole Ahmir thing

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That whole last scene with Jazz whining to Jeanette about moving out - and her subsequent talking head clips - was exactly why she isn’t ready to live on her own. The fact that she can’t even wait 8 weeks to go to college and live in a dorm says a lot about her lack of impulse control. Take the 8 week’s and plan your dorm life, stop whining about shit you’re not ready for. One of the few times I’ve heard Jeanette sound sane was when she said she didn’t trust Jazz to dilate (and then she’d come running back to mommy complaining that her new vaj closed up and expect them to pour even more money into more surgery), and that she would lie about going to classes. That pretty much sums up the person we’ve seen Jazz grow into on this show, and it’s really sad...

Edited by gingerella
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15 minutes ago, gingerella said:

That whole last scene with Jazz whining to Jeanette moving out and the subsequent talking head was exactly why she isn’t ready to live on her own.

Bingo. Move out and do...exactly what? Apparently no college applications in the works. Nor work applications. Speaking engagements are fairly limited in a niche field such as this. So move out and rearrange the furniture until the TLC dough ebbs away? Not sure if you like men or women or even sex at all? I'm not sure what this person's life is about.

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There have to be plenty of AirBnB's in the area she lives in. Why not send her to one for a month and say only call for emergencies or to go to medical appointments  and give her a budget.  Give enough budget for food and basic expenses but not enough to get take out for every meal or a maid. She how she does doing her own laundry, cooking and cleaning.

My son had a lot of hospital stays and medical visits between 16-18. He was in the hospital on his 18th birthday and some hospital official came and told him, he was now an adult, and explained his rights and if he wanted me to be involved. After he saw the pain the insurance was and all the phone calls I made and how much medical care costs, he asked for a POA for me to help him deal with it. Every night he hugs me before he goes to bed and thanks me for all taking the stress of the medical calls off him so he can concentrate on college. I say Mike and Jeanette need to show Jazz those bills or say now that you are 18 , and want to live on your own, you deal with the insurance ad the approvals and pay all the out of pocket. That would be very eye opening. for Jazz and no way Jazz would want to wait on hold to get a medication approved or out of network appointment approved. What if they said, no can you imagine Jazz telling the insurance company, You can't say no I need this now! I think Jazz thinks it is her parents job to pay for all medical forever and her money is for fun stuff. 

Edited by silverspoons
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How did Jack and Jackie raise someone like Jeanette? They dropped the ball somewhere. 

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11 hours ago, ArmenianGirl said:

Grandma was right about Jeanette and Jazz

She certainly was!!  

7 hours ago, nutella fitzgerald said:

What’s stopping you from letting me do what makes me happy?”

Her mom has done NOTHING but let her do what makes her happy no  matter how much her father objects.  That is why we are where we are and why she desplays no maturity.  

She appeared to exhibit no excitement about going to college.  I could barely wait to go to college and move into a dorm after high school.  Maybe she is as unfocused as the “boyfriend”.

Edited by Kid
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I'm flip-flopping on the idea of Jazz moving out--is it a bad idea right now? Yes. But as others here mentioned, maybe a good lesson for her. I would say she should use er own money for everything if she thinks she needs to be independent.

However, I can totally see Jeanette's point that something will go wrong and she'll expect mom and dad to clean up the mess she's made (literally and figuratively).

The other concern I would have as a parent is security. Any place Jazz lives should have some sort of alarm system/security in place because she is a fairly public trans person.  Would Jazz remember to set the alarm/lock her door(s)?

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There have been a lot of posts lately saying Jazz needs a nose job. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but as someone who was bullied for having a big nose I don't think hammering that idea is necessary. Look up Kathy Griffin's horror story from her nose job and it doesn't sound worth it to potentially butcher yourself just to stop others from thinking you have too big a nose. JMHO.

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I thought Jazz was pretty likeable with her respectful comments to the kids at the support group and her excitement over wearing a bathing suit to the beach, but then it all went to hell when she started whining about moving out. I'm of the opinion that it wouldn't matter if Jeanette and Greg made out a budget for Jazz to let her see just how much of a financial obligation she'd be under. Jazz clearly only lives in the here and now, and right now she has what I'm assuming is a sizeable nest egg from TLC/social media, so the hard numbers of independent living wouldn't mean much to her. Doesn't matter that eventually the show will run its course and the money won't be coming in, doesn't matter that she's got no career path, Jazz is so shortsighted that all she can see is that in the moment she can afford when she wants. At age 18, Jeanette and Greg really can't stop her from picking up and leaving. The one card they can play is that if she leaves, she's not coming back. She's on her own for everything, cell phone, car insurance, college included. If Jazz's so damned sure she can handle the responsibilities of adulthood, then let her, but hold firm on the boundary that they will not be her safety net. She'll figure out the hard way that being an adult entails more than just having money to toss around on whatever you want, whenever you want.

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1 hour ago, ClareWalks said:

There have been a lot of posts lately saying Jazz needs a nose job. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but as someone who was bullied for having a big nose I don't think hammering that idea is necessary. Look up Kathy Griffin's horror story from her nose job and it doesn't sound worth it to potentially butcher yourself just to stop others from thinking you have too big a nose. JMHO.

I think it's really odd, because, I've never thought there was anything unusual, large or imperfect about Jazz's nose.  I take issue with some of her personality traits, mainly due to the way she was raised, but, physically, she shines as a lovely lady, imo.  I can't imagine her being able to improve her face at all.  So, it stumps me too.  I wasn't aware that Kathy had complications with her surgery, but, there are always risks. 

Which brings me to the way Jeannette talks about how Jazz's surgery complications were rare.  I know that Dr. Bowers told them that, but, Dr. Ting was clear to them BEFORE the surgery that it was a risk. And more so a risk for Jazz due to the lack of tissue to work with.  So, they knew.  Facing the facts and weighing the risks vs. benefits, is part of making the decision to have the surgery.  Jeannette seems to struggle with what she describes as freaking out and panicking.  She is so worried that others will do that, due to what happened to Jazz.  She seems to be oblivious to how a mature, parent would view it and that is more of an analytic way.  I don't think that she understands that some parents may delay surgery until the child is 18 because the risk could be too great.  PLUS, it could have gone worse for Jazz.  She eventually started healing, but, what if she hadn't?  

Edited by SunnyBeBe
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12 hours ago, Twopper said:

know Jazz wants to continue to be an advocate, but right now she is a big fish in a small pond of trans teens.  I am not sure how well her advocacy will translate into being a trans spokesman for the general population of transgenders. 

I know someone who works professionally in trans advocacy and it's really hard to see Jazz doing it, I mean sure there are the big conferences that Jazz has been involved in but most of it is tedious corporate sensitivity training, political lobbying, etc.

And while I am sure Jazz has had more than her fair share of hate directed towards her, her life does not resemble the lived experience of almost all trans people which does not involve supportive, affluent parents and blocking puberty.

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1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Which brings me to the way Jeannette talks about how Jazz's surgery complications were rare.  I know that Dr. Bowers told them that, but, Dr. Ting was clear to them BEFORE the surgery that it was a risk. And more so a risk for Jazz due to the lack of tissue to work with.  So, they knew.  Facing the facts and weighing the risks vs. benefits, is part of making the decision to have the surgery.  Jeannette seems to struggle with what she describes as freaking out and panicking.  She is so worried that others will do that, due to what happened to Jazz. 

OK, did Jazz even have major complications? There was a lot of TV drama but it's not like she became septic, she popped some sutures, it's a common surgery complication with any surgical procedure that was repaired quickly and apparently without any ongoing issues.

It's certainly less then ideal but it can happen with pretty much any surgery, it's not like her vagina exploded.

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11 hours ago, MrFluffy said:

Bingo. Move out and do...exactly what? Apparently no college applications in the works. Nor work applications. Speaking engagements are fairly limited in a niche field such as this. So move out and rearrange the furniture until the TLC dough ebbs away? Not sure if you like men or women or even sex at all? I'm not sure what this person's life is about.

We don't know there are "no college applications in the works".

Just because it hasn't been mentioned in the program, doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

But, for the sake of argument, let's say Jazz has absolutely no idea what to do with the rest of her life.

An estimated 20-50% of students entering college their freshman year enter with their major as "undecided", and:

"According to the National Center for Education Statistics, about 80 percent of college students change their major at least once. Nationally many students change their majors as many as six times before they decide on a career."

So, I'm a little confused as to why Jazz is being held to a different (higher) standard than other young people her age, vis-à-vis her plans for the future. We accept other 18 year olds may not be sure as to what they want to do for the rest of their lives, allow them to take a "gap year" between high school and college to work, travel, etc., or enter college not knowing what their passion is, or changing their minds a year or two in after being exposed to possibilities they hadn't previously considered.

Insofar as Jazz's sexual orientation, I feel I'm very lucky to have always known I'm attracted to the opposite sex. But I've learned, through extensive research and talking to those in the LGBTQ+ community, that's not always the case. Life is so much easier when everything is clean cut, black and white. But science has revealed that isn't the case with human sexuality. It's a very complex thing! Remember that gender dysphoria/being transgender is separate from sexual orientation. Many people who aren't transgender aren't quite sure of their sexual orientation.

People who are transgender can be heterosexual (for Jazz, that would mean being sexually attracted to men), homosexual, bisexual, asexual (not having a sexual attraction to anyone), pansexual, etc.. It's not at all unusual for those in Jazz's age group to still be figuring out exactly where they are in terms of sexual attraction. 

Frankly, I'd rather someone take the time to really examine their feelings, than bow to pressure from society to label themselves prematurely - only to realize a decade or more later they made a terrible mistake. There have been families totally ripped apart because someone has done that (for example, denying they're gay, getting married, having children - then realizing they can't deny their true orientation years or decades later). 

So if Jazz is still figuring it all out, IMO, that's prudent; not wishy-washy. 

Edited by TwirlyGirly · Reason: Removed 3 paragraphs relating to "real time" info not relayed in the episode
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I've enjoyed reading the posts this week. They've all been great.

Jazz usually gets on my nerves  but I thought  her & Noelle were funny in the dressing room - typical teenagers & not acting like they are on TV.   I thought both the camel toe comment  & the part when Noelle said she had her eyes closed after Jazz did her fancy dance out of the dressing room were funny. (Usually I can't stand any camel toe comments.)

Noelle is great.  Is there a back story on her like when she started transitioning? It seems her mother is active in her journey but is her father? He's rarely mentioned &  I don't think we've seen him. Noelle was a football player & she made the comment about remembering throwing the football around with her dad when she was burning her clothes.  It may be harder for him to accept things since Noelle gave up football. Just wondering. 

Noelle is so good about letting Jazz's comments roll of her.  I don't think it was nice of Jazz to say "we" are going legging shopping since she knows Noelle wouldn't be interested for the same reasons she wasn't before her surgery.  But as usual, Jazz can make any conversation about Jazz.

Ahmir is so done with Jazz. I think if he was a local boyfriend  (rather than long distance), he would be the controlling type that would want to know every move Jazz makes, wouldn't "allow" her to be with her friends, would check out her phone to see who called or texted her, etc.  

Ahmir acted like a jerk when he was on the phone when Jazz was in the car. He kept hesitating & acted like he didn't want to answer her questions.

But I hope Jack & Jacky get to meet him before his ship sails & we get to see it. I'm sure Grandpa has a lot of questions for him regarding school and/or job.

It is funny what Jacky said about Jeanette &Jazz.  Usually one would make these comments about a daughter-in-law, not a daughter.   I'm thinking Jeanette may have been raised the same way as Jazz  (spoiled brat) & that's why Jacky is making the comments. 

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The show is presenting a story line of Jazz not applying to colleges at this point in the show.  Per Jeanette, when they were at University of Miami Jazz was not focusing on applying to colleges.  It does sound funny since her parents are both talking about her moving into a dorm in a few months and saying she does not have college plans.

I thought at this point in the timeline Jazz still had a year if high school to go.  If that's correct, she could just be starting to think about colleges and she will not be moving into a dorm for a year. 

One way or another, we are discussing a show and what we are shown.  In this story, she is floundering a bit.  It may or may not be where she is now in real time or even where she actually was at that time.  Regardless, it's the story. 

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Does Jazz's mother help her dilate 3X a day?  Why doesn't she teach Jazz to wax or bleach her mustache?

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Two points stood out to me last night. One was sad, like when Jazz was describing her childhood bullying and her classmates said they would want to kill her or for her to die.  That was heartbreaking.  I can't imagine that kind of pain as a child!  Man, that was brutal.  Getting past that is a victory. 

The other was when Jazz asked Ahmir if he missed her.  Well, I had someone ask me that before on the phone and I froze, because, I just couldn't get out an answer.  I'm not opposed to a fib to save someone's feelings, but, I just couldn't get an answer out .  So......I think the answer was no.  

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While Ahmir did come off like he was over it/just not that into her, I also wondered if he wasn't multi-tasking during the call in the car. He needs to learn to be camera ready!  In their later call, when Jazz was talking about her feelings and not wanting to be pinned down in a long distance relationship, I couldn't tell if he was concerned about losing their relationship or his potential TV time.  My inner cynic was on high alert.  

I also found it funny that Jazz was commenting about attractive "men <pause> and women."  Then the camera people would show good looking young men.  

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I still think the Ahmir/Jazz romance was all storyline, no truth to it all. She was crazy about him, now all of a sudden she is looking at both men and women. Gee, hope you understand, Ahmir. She wants to keep her options open. And he's ok with that. Easy peasy way to end a relationship. 

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20 minutes ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

I thought at this point in the timeline Jazz still had a year if high school to go.  If that's correct, she could just be starting to think about colleges and she will not be moving into a dorm for a year. 

You're absolutely right! I think next week is Jazz's 18th birthday episode, and her birthday is in October. That would put this week's episode sometime in September.

I wish the Jennings lived in a state that has four seasons; I keep forgetting we're months past when the episodes we see were filmed. Because FL weather is usually warm year-round, theoretically, Jazz *could* be frolicking at the beach in FL in January or February!

When my daughter was a senior in high school (2014), she had no clue as to where she wanted to go to college at the beginning of the year. We began seriously discussing schools to which she was going to apply in mid-November, and she had her applications completed by the end of December, IIRC. (About the same timetable for her grad school applications at the end of last year. She'll be starting grad school this fall).

Her career choices changed quite a bit, too. She first considered med school, then physician's assistant, and finally settled on public health - epidemiology. Luckily her undergrad classes fit into all three careers.

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I'm sure plenty of things are staged on reality tv, and they are here for sure, but, I can see how after spending more time with Ahmir Jazz became disillusioned.  No matter how attracted I am to someone and how crazy I am over them, once they hurt my feelings, are rude and show a dark side.....it's pretty much over for me. I can easily see moving on with a nice person, who's right in my area. 

If Ahmir was a "plant' by TLC, I'd think that Jazz may consider that kind of inauthenticity as harmful to her brand, which in turn could hurt her future work in advocacy.  

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5 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but as someone who was bullied for having a big nose I don't think hammering that idea is necessary.

Amen.  And thank you!

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8 hours ago, silverspoons said:

There have to be plenty of AirBnB's in the area she lives in. Why not send her to one for a month and say only call for emergencies or to go to medical appointments  and give her a budget.  Give enough budget for food and basic expenses but not enough to get take out for every meal or a maid. She how she does doing her own laundry, cooking and cleaning.

Because she hasn't shown one iota of being able to take responsibility for her own basic life stuff.  She lays around the house most of the time from what we're shown, her room is usually not what I would consider 'clean and neat', she seems to eat shitty unhealthy food, her personal hygiene seems always in question given the seemingly always-greasy hair, and she appears to have zero understanding or interest in how much money her trans journey has cost the family coffers. I'm not saying she shouldn't have transitioned, I'm saying she appears to have no understanding of what that's cost the family in cold hard cash, time spent chasing down insurance stuff, emotional toll on parents, etc. She doesn't exhibit the curiosity - at least on camera - that she is the least bit interested or involved in that stuff. Her mother does all of that. Her father pays for all of that. She just swans about spouting euphemistic quotes from psychics that support what she wants to do. Notice how it didn't change her mind to have the surgery before she was 18, even though the psychic warned her there would be problems? But now that the psychic says she should live on her own she's all for promoting that. Ugh.

I found the most compelling moment of the episode when Jeanette was telling her no way was she moving out yet because she has no idea how to take care of herself. In particular, when she mentioned that living on her own, who would remind her to dilate, and that she might lie about going to classes. I think it takes A LOT for a parent to basically say "You are not someone I can trust. I think you will likely lie to me about x & y..." To say that, and on camera no less, says more about who Jazz is right now than anything that has been shown on this show thus far. To me, that was mind blowing. Not surprising because from what we've seen of Jazz growing into a teen and young lady, she has shown no propensity for taking care of her own shit, we've seen her take off 'just because' and leave her family frantically worried and she comes home with a 'whatever' attitude, and we've all been shown that she's crafty and calculating and will try anything to get what she wants. And yet, to have her mother tell her on camera that she feels Jazz is a liar and will lie to hide what she's really doing if she lived alone, that says it all to me. And that's why I think this show must end after this season. In my eyes, she's become a liability to the trans community. If we, those of us who've been here from the beginning of the show, and who support the trans community already, are becoming turned off by her behaviors and attitude, what about all the people who are not supportive of the trans community, and for whom this was hopefully going to be a turning point show? To me that's the saddest part of how this show has turned out. If only...

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Jazzers, let us all take a minute to remember that all opinions---good or bad---are permitted here; provided the opinions do not violate our mod notes. Jazz's hair, education, posture, etc are all open game. What is off limits is misgendering her, or questioning the authenticity of her journey.

Let's get back to having a good time discussing the events of this episode.

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3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I'm sure plenty of things are staged on reality tv, and they are here for sure, but, I can see how after spending more time with Ahmir Jazz became disillusioned.  No matter how attracted I am to someone and how crazy I am over them, once they hurt my feelings, are rude and show a dark side.....it's pretty much over for me. I can easily see moving on with a nice person, who's right in my area. 

If Ahmir was a "plant' by TLC, I'd think that Jazz may consider that kind of inauthenticity as harmful to her brand, which in turn could hurt her future work in advocacy.  

I think Jazz had her first relationship in which she got to go through the honeymoon phase then hit reality.  At first she was smitten and overlooked some red flags with Mr. non-personality (ok, he may be an introvert but he comes across like a big wad of nothing or, at times, surly nothing).  When they spent time in NYC she saw more of his personality across a longer time period and with him letting down his guard, and she was significantly less enamored.  Her friends seem to be doing a good job of providing a sounding board without making the critical error of over-criticizing him, since that makes Jazz defend him and dig herself in deeper. 

It will be interesting to see where it goes.  If nothing else, it is good experience in dating and relationships.  We've all been there.  It is messy, especially when you're young and more likely to fall for the "he likes me! he really likes me!" without looking further to "do I really like him?".

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Yeah, some girls don't have the confidence to be without a boyfriend, if the one they have isn't that supportive and kind. They just hang on out of some insecurity.  I've always been the type who would rather be alone than with someone who made me miserable.(Except for a couple times when I lost my mind. lol)  In fact, I can entertain myself pretty well, so, loneliness has never been a problem for me.  lol  I think that this whole experience, including her surgery, has given Jazz a big confidence boost.  She seems to be able to be honest about her feelings. That's good. 

Edited by SunnyBeBe
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19 hours ago, suev3333 said:

Wow....can Jazz do anything without her mother?   I can just see when Jazz has sex for the first time.  Her mom will be right beside her, guiding her....🙄

Or standing right outside the door trying to hear everything that's going on like she did during the Chang interview.

Edited by Sile
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I know that Jeannette does seem to have a real grip on her relationship with Jazz, but, I think it might be okay, eventually.  One of my cousin's had her mother live with her part of the time when she was in college AND graduate school!  I'm not kidding. They were so close.  They both wanted it that way.  It made me scratch my head, because, I was ecstatic to get away from my parents! lol   Eventually, she would marry, have baby and live independently.  I'm not so sure she liked it though. Her mom was her rock. 

Edited by SunnyBeBe
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9 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

There have been a lot of posts lately saying Jazz needs a nose job. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but as someone who was bullied for having a big nose I don't think hammering that idea is necessary. Look up Kathy Griffin's horror story from her nose job and it doesn't sound worth it to potentially butcher yourself just to stop others from thinking you have too big a nose. JMHO.

I think Jazz is a perfectly pretty young lady.   I listen to what she says (in her PR support of young people who are hurting), and I have truly never noticed her 'nose!'  She is the product of a lovely, intelligent, funny family, and I think she should be proud to carry their 'genes.'  :-D

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5 hours ago, gingerella said:

Because she hasn't shown one iota of being able to take responsibility for her own basic life stuff.  She lays around the house most of the time from what we're shown, her room is usually not what I would consider 'clean and neat', she seems to eat shitty unhealthy food, her personal hygiene seems always in question given the seemingly always-greasy hair, and she appears to have zero understanding or interest in how much money her trans journey has cost the family coffers. I'm not saying she shouldn't have transitioned, I'm saying she appears to have no understanding of what that's cost the family in cold hard cash, time spent chasing down insurance stuff, emotional toll on parents, etc. She doesn't exhibit the curiosity - at least on camera - that she is the least bit interested or involved in that stuff. Her mother does all of that. Her father pays for all of that. She just swans about spouting euphemistic quotes from psychics that support what she wants to do. Notice how it didn't change her mind to have the surgery before she was 18, even though the psychic warned her there would be problems? But now that the psychic says she should live on her own she's all for promoting that. Ugh.

I found the most compelling moment of the episode when Jeanette was telling her no way was she moving out yet because she has no idea how to take care of herself. In particular, when she mentioned that living on her own, who would remind her to dilate, and that she might lie about going to classes. I think it takes A LOT for a parent to basically say "You are not someone I can trust. I think you will likely lie to me about x & y..." To say that, and on camera no less, says more about who Jazz is right now than anything that has been shown on this show thus far. To me, that was mind blowing. Not surprising because from what we've seen of Jazz growing into a teen and young lady, she has shown no propensity for taking care of her own shit, we've seen her take off 'just because' and leave her family frantically worried and she comes home with a 'whatever' attitude, and we've all been shown that she's crafty and calculating and will try anything to get what she wants. And yet, to have her mother tell her on camera that she feels Jazz is a liar and will lie to hide what she's really doing if she lived alone, that says it all to me. And that's why I think this show must end after this season. In my eyes, she's become a liability to the trans community. If we, those of us who've been here from the beginning of the show, and who support the trans community already, are becoming turned off by her behaviors and attitude, what about all the people who are not supportive of the trans community, and for whom this was hopefully going to be a turning point show? To me that's the saddest part of how this show has turned out. If only...

And was anyone else waiting for the obligatory “shame on me” from Jeanette after she admitted that Jazz couldn’t be trusted and couldn’t take care of herself?  I, like many of the others on this board, pride myself that I raised my children to be trustworthy and self sufficient.  If Jeanette admits on TV that Jazz is 18 and can’t be trusted with simple self preservation tasks and responsibilities, I would think that Jeanette would have to take part or all of the blame for that.  Especially since her other children do not seem to have the same issues.  I know that Jazz was/is considered someone that had a special needs childhood, but every child should be raised with the goal of integrity and independence.  Those skills weren’t taught to Jazz if she is in this shape now.  

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It is sad to see that Jazz was treated so rudely by Ahmir when she was so excited about having a first-time boyfriend relationship. His remarks that she cannot kiss, her vagina is creepy, and the fact that he would not acknowledged that he missed her when she so wanted to hear it were very callous.  On his instagram page (google Ahmir Steward instagram), he blames his snarky behavior on mental health issues.  Sounds like a  convenient excuse for acting snarky.

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On 3/12/2019 at 9:38 PM, Callaphera said:

the way Jazz's friends arrange themselves in such a perfect diagonal line while facing Jazz for a friendly on camera conversation. 

Jazz's Friend: "I think the youth are, like, our future." Even Archangel Michael is raising an eyebrow to that comment.

They have to arrange themselves that way to see past her huge nose. 

And yes such profound thoughts from Jazz's social barnacles 🙄

Edited by Joan of Argh · Reason: wrong emoji... posting from sony tabllet
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Jazzers,

Again, people are allowed to like or dislike Jazz and anything about Jazz or other people on the show as long as those statements are not racist, homophobic, transphobic, etc.  Do not assume posters have intent that is not stated. Comment on the show not your fellow posters. Accusations against other posters violate the the Golden Rule: Be Civil.

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17 hours ago, Mollypup said:

It is sad to see that Jazz was treated so rudely by Ahmir when she was so excited about having a first-time boyfriend relationship. His remarks that she cannot kiss, her vagina is creepy, and the fact that he would not acknowledged that he missed her when she so wanted to hear it were very callous.  On his instagram page (google Ahmir Steward instagram), he blames his snarky behavior on mental health issues.  Sounds like a  convenient excuse for acting snarky.

I think he posted the excuse about his snarky behaviour because of the backlash and it's a cop out.

Someone else posted that they thought he might have been multitasking during the conversation and that's why his response was delayed and I think that might be the case.. I also thought it sounded like he had someone with him because it sort of sounded like someone giggling in the background.

Im not a huge Jazz fan but I do worry about her safety should she decide to move out on her own.... I think she might be a bit naive about people and ulterior motives.... Case in point Ahmir, he might be nothing more than an awkward kid when it comes to romance or maybe he's a jerk having fun and giggling with his friends about dating her.

Edited by Joan of Argh
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Haven't even watched the episode yet but wanted to chime in. Like many adolescents, Jazz is very mature about some things and very immature about others. Her public speaking and interviewing skills are good for any person much less a teenager. She doesn't ummmm or repeat herself she's generally very concise with answers. That being said, she comes across as so entitled and kind of a brat. It will be interesting to see what the future holds for her in terms her role as an advocate for transgender people. In some ways I think her journey has been so much easier then most and she might not be the right spokesperson for this cause. I say give her some money and let her move out let her either fall on her face or figure it out.

Edited by jacksgirl
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On 3/12/2019 at 9:38 PM, Callaphera said:

Jazz's Friend: "I think the youth are, like, our future." Even Archangel Michael is raising an eyebrow to that comment.

I immediately thought of this song.  Then I got cranky because I hate this song and it's in my head. 

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On 3/13/2019 at 9:44 AM, Barb23 said:

But I hope Jack & Jacky get to meet him [Ahmir] before his ship sails & we get to see it. I'm sure Grandpa has a lot of questions for him regarding school and/or job.

I didn't know how much I wanted to see this until you said it.  Please let this happen! 

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7 hours ago, jacksgirl said:

That being said, she comes across as so entitled and kind of a brat. It will be interesting to see what the future holds for her in terms her role as an advocate for transgender people. In some ways I think her journey has been so much easier then most and she might not be the right spokesperson for this cause. I say give her some money and let her move out let her either fall on her face or figure it out.

^This^ I always cringe during scenes where Jazz is flaunting her boobs or her new vaj and she drags along 'friends' like Noelle, who have not had the benefits she's had with early hormone supression, and still have ways to go until bottom surgery. I really feel for Noelle because she went through full male puberty and that has got to be a more difficult experience than coddled Jazz has gone through (IMO) yet Jazz thinks it's cool to drag her along to shop for leggings when she knows Noelle cannot wear them...yet. It's just beyond insensitive and we've been shown similar situations over the years and it just exacerbates the "Jazz is very selfish and self centered" story line. I cannot for the life of me, understand who thinks this show is beneficial now, and while we all know TLC will milk a dead cow if they think they can sell ad time for it, it seems to me that at the very least, Dad, siblings and grandparents should be seeing what we all see and pull the plug, or at least help to create a different narrative.

ETA:

This self absorbed attitude - from someone who’s been given every advantage that I’m guessing most trans teens and adults probably have not had   - seems like it points to her days as a spokesperson being limited. It reminds me of the obtuse and obnoxious I Am Cate, where Caitlin Jenner came off as so out of touch with the other ladies on her show, all of whom had gone through really gut wrenching journeys to get where they were and Caitlin swanned about in her mansion, wringing about hair and makeup. I see Jazz headed in that direction and people like Noelle, but that don’t know her, I just don’t know how much they’d welcome her as ‘their’spokesperson’, yanno? 

Edited by gingerella · Reason: Corrected quote
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7 hours ago, gingerella said:

yet Jazz thinks it's cool to drag her along to shop for leggings when she knows Noelle cannot wear them...yet.

I don't wear leggings because I look dreadful in them (legs too short) but why can't Noelle wear them?  Are they uncomfortable until bottom surgery or for appearances only?  If appearances, wouldn't a tunic solve that problem?  

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5 hours ago, Granny58 said:

I don't wear leggings because I look dreadful in them (legs too short) but why can't Noelle wear them?  Are they uncomfortable until bottom surgery or for appearances only?  If appearances, wouldn't a tunic solve that problem?  

From what both she and Jazz have said, they feel they can't wear leggings because of the bulges they would have, and Noelle would likely have a more obvious bulge since she's already gone through puberty.

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