Jump to content
Forums forums
PRIMETIMER
frenchtoast

S09.E05: The Abbie Gown

Recommended Posts

@Julia67 I've always wondered too. It's amazing how much money they have to blow for people who don't work very much. My neighbor is a pastor and that man works... he is always running for a member of his church! Funerals, weddings, hospital visits, nursing home visits, new baby blessings, Wednesday night service, Sunday morning service, etc. He also mentors and counsels young couples.  I know you probably know all too well. He can barely take a day off let alone travel for the majority of the month. Jeremy is not working... He must have stored away some money from his soccer days or possibly Jinger has more cash than we think? I can't imagine with Boob though... I know all the Duggars are peddling various items and companies on Instagram. I'd love to know their financial when it comes to the show! I'm so nosey but I would honestly love to know how they do it. Mr. Frumper and I both work full time with decent wages and could never swing some of the stuff Jing and Jerm do. We'd go broke in airfare alone. 

I wonder if they have broken the golden rule and taken on debt in the form of a mortgage, car payment, credit cards, etc....I don't really see how they couldn't have. 

  • Like 19

Share this post


Link to post
19 hours ago, Twopper said:

There was talk of keeping the mirror.   I  guess it was okay, but I really want a 3 way mirror when I am trying on anything--especially anything as important as a wedding gown.  I am a softie when it comes to watching them try on wedding gowns in part because I like to sketch, and I often sketch gowns, cats, birds, and flowers.  I was lucky when I married 30+ years ago to find a dress on the rack at a department store that was exactly what I wanted for about $400.  The other reason is that our daughter got married a few years ago;  at the time she lived several states away from us so I was not invited to help her pick out her dress.    No one was invited , although 2 of her bridesmaids lived there, too. I was only slightly hurt. 😭

Three-way mirror?  Not sure the mathematics curriculum of the SOTDRT included the level of skill required for that. 

  • Like 3
  • Laugh 6

Share this post


Link to post
13 hours ago, ehall1052 said:

I love Abbie’s curls, but I was wondering if you all think her hair natural curly. Her sisters did not appear to have as much curl and I seem to remember a picture of Abbie when she was a child and she had a “Prince Valiant” haircut, with no curl at all.

I have a friend at church whose daughter's hair went from a lifetime of straight to Abbie type curls basically overnight once puberty hit.  My friend said the very same thing happened to her.  

  • Like 3
  • Surprise 1

Share this post


Link to post
40 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

I have a friend at church whose daughter's hair went from a lifetime of straight to Abbie type curls basically overnight once puberty hit.  My friend said the very same thing happened to her.  

When I was little, my hair was wavy as I got older my hair got curlier then when I had my son, by hair lost all its curl. Took until he was about 5 or 6 for it to come back. Hormone changes I guess? 

  • Like 2
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post

“We always feel like we can knock it out pretty fast. We’re overly confident like that.”

Abby has some interestingly shaped eyebrows. And what a Nancy Kulp-esque family! “Oh Mr Drysdale!”

Shouldn’t all passengers on the airplane be keeping their hands and arms inside the plane?

Next Week: Jackson gets a learners permit. 

I took a lot of screenshots, but I don’t know if I’ll bother posting any. 

Guesthouse/hole

1y0j9u.jpg

Sore feet

iy1sg8.jpg

And strike a pose

2gwgilg.jpg

Edited by kokapetl
  • Like 2
  • Laugh 11

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, kokapetl said:

Abby has some interestingly shaped eyebrows. And what a Nancy Kulp-esque family! “Oh Mr Drysdale!”

This Beverly Hillbillies reference made my day. 🙂

  • Like 6
  • Laugh 4

Share this post


Link to post
16 minutes ago, kokapetl said:

“We always feel like we can knock it out pretty fast. We’re overly confident like that.”

Abby has some interestingly shaped eyebrows. And what a Nancy Kulp-esque family! “Oh Mr Drysdale!”

Shouldn’t all passengers on the airplane be keeping their hands and arms inside the plane?

Next Week: Jackson gets a learners permit. 

I took a lot of screenshots, but I don’t know if I’ll bother posting any. 

Guesthouse/hole

1y0j9u.jpg

Sore feet

iy1sg8.jpg

And strike a pose

2gwgilg.jpg

Seeing the preview of Jackson driving scared me he looks 11 or 12 😧

Outside the guesthouse looks awful the inside looks ok and has got a lot of space, I was thinking Jessa & Ben should move in. 

Edited by Puffin
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Julia67 said:

I've wondered about this.  Surely, Jeremy isn't making much (if any) money as a pastor.  (I know. Mr J was a pastor for 11 years.) They have a lovely home.  They travel ALL.  THE.  TIME.  Jinger doesn't work and Jeremy isn't bi-vocational.  So how in the world are they doing so well?  I don't know what they make from the show but, considering it's less than 15 episodes a year, they are either making a ton more than I thought or they are VERY good with their money.  Did he make money playing soccer?  I just don't understand.

It's gotta be show money plus -- I'd guess -- some paid-for trips and such by people in his belief community who are hoping to get a media-exposure ride off hanging out with somebody who's on tv and has a growing social-media presence.  (unless Jer's getting family assistance from somewhere or something....always possible...)

He couldn't have made much money playing soccer. He was on a second-tier Finnish team for one season (and a team that has a history of having low finances, I've read). Then he was on a US major-league team for one season. Then he rode the bench for a minor-league team in San Antonio for part of a season before quitting.

According to Google the median pay for a major-league U.S. player is $100,000. So let's assume he made that much for one of the three years. (which seems unlikely to me, since it was only his second year as a pro, but maybe they really liked him when they signed him).... Anyway, that suggests to me that, over the almost-three years, he may have made about, what?, $180,000-to-$200,000 as a three-year total? Or an average of $60,000 -$65,000 before taxes per year?

That's not hay. However, he lived in Finland and then the NYC area for two of those years -- and both those places are very pricey. Plus, it all happened five-plus years ago now. No way he could have money left over from that, seems to me. 

Some of their traveling is paid for by TLC, since it's filmed. And I'm pretty sure -- he's even mentioned this -- that some people have paid for him and Jingle to come so he can officiate at a wedding or preach or hang out. I interpret that as meaning that those folks are hoping to get some media exposure from it -- and they have. 

My bet is that he sees the costs of the travel and his hat wardrobe and so on as investments in moving him toward the well-paying, high-profile career he wants. I doubt they're socking a whole lot away for the future.....Of course, if they don't have a ton of kids they won't need it as badly as some of the others may. 

Edited by Churchhoney
  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post

The whole pop-up bridal shop was just weird.  I've no doubt that TLC comes up with these plots, but it's hard for me to imagine someone going to all the trouble of building one.  And it appears that Miss Renee only brought four dresses.  Four?  Who in their right mind would choose their wedding gown with a choice of only four to pick from?  And with the wedding only 25 days away, I guess Abbie was buying the dress off the rack, there would be no time for ordering.  Most likely the dress had already been chosen and purchased beforehand and they just went through the motions of the pop-up to fill up air time.  I DVR'd it and fast-forwarded through the stupid flour thing.  It's the only way I can watch this show, it is so boring.

  • Like 15

Share this post


Link to post

Yes, I'm sure the dress she wore at the wedding was already or very nearly finished 25 days before the wedding.  They can say they were filming 25 days before the actual day of the wedding, but it could have been longer or shorter than that.   Reality shows lie about the time line all the time.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
15 minutes ago, debbie311 said:

The whole pop-up bridal shop was just weird.  I've no doubt that TLC comes up with these plots, but it's hard for me to imagine someone going to all the trouble of building one.  And it appears that Miss Renee only brought four dresses.  Four?  Who in their right mind would choose their wedding gown with a choice of only four to pick from?  And with the wedding only 25 days away, I guess Abbie was buying the dress off the rack, there would be no time for ordering.  Most likely the dress had already been chosen and purchased beforehand and they just went through the motions of the pop-up to fill up air time.  I DVR'd it and fast-forwarded through the stupid flour thing.  It's the only way I can watch this show, it is so boring.

Well, I picked my dress after trying on only four, but I went into the salon knowing which one I wanted and tried only three others to confirm. I agree, though, that for someone who supposedly had not done much research into what she wanted, it was stupid to bring only four. I agree the dress had already been purchased when they filmed this. Stupid storylines for stupid people.

  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post

Re Jerm’s finances, anyone know if he’s having to pay for this “Master’s” program he’s in - the advanced church training he’s involved in? 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
25 minutes ago, OpieTaylor said:

Re Jerm’s finances, anyone know if he’s having to pay for this “Master’s” program he’s in - the advanced church training he’s involved in? 

I haven't seen anything about that. I do know that you're eligible for the federal financial aid programs at The Master's Seminary, though, so big loans are possible, just as they are for Der. 

 The seminary is having some accreditation troubles at the moment, due to what the accrediting group they're in complains is self-dealing and nepotism, basically. The board is way inbred with the administration. Lot of controversy among fellow conservative Christians over whether they should even seek accreditation from a regular secular association, but if they were to lose it or give it up then students couldn't get federal grants and loans...so....

I still think it's possible somebody in his extended family accumulated some money from unionized jobs and/or stock-market holdings in the decades when the Dow soared and/or extreme frugality....Sometimes when that happens grandkids can get the benefit for grad school and the like....

Or maybe he's using TLC money for it. He may figure that the credential will be more valuable to him in the long haul than investing or saving the money....He's clearly highly focused on a church career. 

  • Like 3
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, jcbrown said:

Well, I picked my dress after trying on only four, but I went into the salon knowing which one I wanted and tried only three others to confirm. I agree, though, that for someone who supposedly had not done much research into what she wanted, it was stupid to bring only four. I agree the dress had already been purchased when they filmed this. Stupid storylines for stupid people.

I got married in 1978 and wore a size 18. I had exactly two dresses to choose from. 

  • Like 1
  • Sad 11

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Absolom said:

Yes, I'm sure the dress she wore at the wedding was already or very nearly finished 25 days before the wedding.  They can say they were filming 25 days before the actual day of the wedding, but it could have been longer or shorter than that.   Reality shows lie about the time line all the time.

This!  They were acting like they had to get this done in time for Abbie to try on the dresses, oh no, what if they don’t make it 🙄

Then when they’re about to try on dresses, Miss Renee says something about how they were working so hard YESTERDAY.  They can’t even fake interesting drama.

One other thing I haven’t seen mentioned—when they were trying to build the frame for the mirror, Jessa is bossing everybody around while one of her brothers tries to get her attention to point out that Ben worked for a glass shop.  She completely ignored him and Ben.  Headship issues aside, what a disrespectful way to treat your spouse.       I can’t stand her.

  • Like 21

Share this post


Link to post
9 minutes ago, Kbo said:

This!  They were acting like they had to get this done in time for Abbie to try on the dresses, oh no, what if they don’t make it 🙄

One of the things that bugs me about TLC, it’s part of every stinking show.

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Kbo said:

One other thing I haven’t seen mentioned—when they were trying to build the frame for the mirror, Jessa is bossing everybody around while one of her brothers tries to get her attention to point out that Ben worked for a glass shop.  She completely ignored him and Ben.  Headship issues aside, what a disrespectful way to treat your spouse.       I can’t stand her.

I noticed that in one of the little promo clips for the show! 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
9 hours ago, Tikichick said:

I have a friend at church whose daughter's hair went from a lifetime of straight to Abbie type curls basically overnight once puberty hit.  My friend said the very same thing happened to her.  

Being pregnant made my slightly wavy hair to full-on curl.  I've learned to appreciate my curly hair.  My friends are envious.  I can color without drying my hair out excessively, if I permed on top of color, it would be damaging.  I like Abbie's hair and shorter length.  

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Are fundie moms not allowed to pump their milk? JereMe has definitely become buddies with the producers and a few of the cameramen, they are making him look real good for TV.

Jessa's hair looked like a dirty mop.

The whole fake dress shop thing was ridiculous, nobody seemed amused. The dress Abbie chose happened to be her exact size and Ms Renee conveniently had the perfect piece of glittery tulle to go over it. 🙄 

Next episode looks like another snooze fest.

  • Like 13

Share this post


Link to post
11 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

When I was little, my hair was wavy as I got older my hair got curlier then when I had my son, by hair lost all its curl. Took until he was about 5 or 6 for it to come back. Hormone changes I guess? 

Yup!! Though it didn't take as long, the same thing happened to me after each of my three kids... That curly hair I had as a toddler got straight-ish until puberty, then was curly until they were born, at which point I suddenly had straight hair which I had NO IDEA how to deal with for about six months. It always returned to curly after that, though.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Lunera said:

Are fundie moms not allowed to pump their milk? .

I was wondering the same thing. Or was there a pumped bottle ready to give Felicity there all along, as I suspect?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
9 hours ago, Kbo said:

One other thing I haven’t seen mentioned—when they were trying to build the frame for the mirror, Jessa is bossing everybody around while one of her brothers tries to get her attention to point out that Ben worked for a glass shop.  She completely ignored him and Ben.  Headship issues aside, what a disrespectful way to treat your spouse.       I can’t stand her.

Jana seemed to ignore Ben's input also.

  • Like 6
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 3/12/2019 at 3:13 PM, Natalie68 said:

I liked the clip of the sound guy petting the cat

This reminds me....who watches their kitty with all the traveling they do?

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, ChiCricket said:

This reminds me....who watches their kitty with all the traveling they do?

I've been wondering that. When Jeremy said, "we have to make sure Jake has his food," I initially took it to mean they were going to dump a bowl full of (total crap) dry cat food out and let him fend for himself for the duration of their trip. I would hope he is more responsible than that and at least has friends drop by to check on him (I say he because let's face it, if it were up to a Duggar, that cat would still be wandering around outside).

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
23 minutes ago, graefin said:

(I say he because let's face it, if it were up to a Duggar, that cat would still be wandering around outside).

Or ran over, for run.

  • Sad 3

Share this post


Link to post
On 3/12/2019 at 1:26 PM, Puffin said:

I’ve often wondered if JD is a real pilot, I know he’s got a licence but it just seems like something he does for fun not actual work.

The link is interesting thanks, I suppose if he had built the house and everything then that’s where he wanted him and his future bride to live. I wonder if he lived in it after it was done or he was still staying at home? Why do that if he had his own house. Surely he’d want some peace and quiet sometimes. 

I think the single guy not living in his house  is a fundie thing. I'm sure it's about control. 

Jesse Maxwell has done the same thing. I think he rents out his house & lives at home rent free so he's probably making money on the deal.  

  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Jana seemed to ignore Ben's input also.

She was the the first one ignoring him. The J brother was telling Jana specifically that Ben would know, she completely ignored him, and then Jessa got up from the couch to look and the brother repeated it.

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
11 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Yup!! Though it didn't take as long, the same thing happened to me after each of my three kids... That curly hair I had as a toddler got straight-ish until puberty, then was curly until they were born, at which point I suddenly had straight hair which I had NO IDEA how to deal with for about six months. It always returned to curly after that, though.

I know what you mean. I was lost with straight hair. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
9 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Jana seemed to ignore Ben's input also.

I wonder if there is a lot of carryover between car windshield installation and mirrors.

  • Like 5
  • Laugh 2

Share this post


Link to post
16 hours ago, Lunera said:

Are fundie moms not allowed to pump their milk? JereMe has definitely become buddies with the producers and a few of the cameramen, they are making him look real good for TV.

I thought I heard him say something to the effect of since she wouldn't be too long, there was no need for her to pump, so maybe she just does it on an as needed basis?

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, Newberry said:

I thought I heard him say something to the effect of since she wouldn't be too long, there was no need for her to pump, so maybe she just does it on an as needed basis?

Ya.  That’s what I took from his comment.  Sounds very reasonable. 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
On 3/12/2019 at 7:18 PM, Absolom said:

Ratings are here:  963 K viewers and a .23 rating.  It was the 27th cable show of the day.

I was happy to see that last Thursday night (March 7), Dr. Pimple Popper (another TLC series) led the cable shows with 3.243 million viewers and a .75 share/rating. Yes, the top cable show of the day. The night before (March 6), TLC's My 600 Pound Life was the 13th cable show of the day with 1.1 million viewers and a .40 share/rating. The night after this episode of Counting On (March 12), a Dr. Pimple Popper episode (I think it was kind of a recycled "new" or "expanded" one), was the 10th-ranked cable show (1.067 million viewers, .37 share) and a new episode of I Am Jazz landed the 27th-ranked cable spot (883,000 viewers, .32 share). It looks like the good old Say Yes to the Dress has viewers and ratings similar to Counting On.

I looked up those shows for comparison to Counting On. I think Counting On is likely to hang around for a while yet, but it's not TLC's strongest performer. I assume that pre-Joshgate, 19K&C was TLC's golden goose, but those days are in the rear view mirror and I really don't see any big resurgence for the Duggars in terms of ratings. It's now I think kind of middle-of-the-pack in TLC's lineup and I suppose if they can keep viewership about where it is now and keep costs down, it will keep going. 

  • Like 3
  • Useful 2

Share this post


Link to post

We need to see a viewer number in the 650 K to 750 K range before we can have good hopes of a cancellation.  900 K isn't great, but the cost vs return analysis is probably still going to be on the renewal side.  

On the positive side, anything below about 650 K will get us in 90 to 99% range of cancellation.  

  • Like 7
  • Useful 6

Share this post


Link to post

The numbers would drop to acceptable levels if the hate-watchers would watch something else (or in my case, stop using the TLCgo app).

  • Like 9
  • Useful 3
  • Laugh 5

Share this post


Link to post

On this site, the My 600 Pound Life forum is hopping! They have a live chat and an episode thread, both of which, off the top of my head, get more attention than the episode threads for Counting On.

I have only gone to Dr Pimple Popper forum on here once, and most of the comments were people bored with the format of the show. 

It’s interesting the ratings and PTV activity can be so different.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Marshmallow Mollie said:

On this site, the My 600 Pound Life forum is hopping! <snip>

It’s interesting the ratings and PTV activity can be so different.

This reminds me, am I the only one who is missing seeing the little 🔥 symbol next to the "hot" forums? (Or maybe I just don't know where to see it now?)

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
12 hours ago, Marshmallow Mollie said:

On this site, the My 600 Pound Life forum is hopping! They have a live chat and an episode thread, both of which, off the top of my head, get more attention than the episode threads for Counting On.

I have only gone to Dr Pimple Popper forum on here once, and most of the comments were people bored with the format of the show. 

It’s interesting the ratings and PTV activity can be so different.

If you saw the episode with Jeanne, you would understand why its hopping! 

  • Laugh 7

Share this post


Link to post

Re: pumping. A lot of women can't do it or don't mess with it because it can be a real chore. I nursed my daughter for almost 2 years and was lucky to get 1-2 oz with an extended session on the pump, plus she would only take a bottle from my mom. She refused when her daddy tried even if I wasn't home. It wasn't worth it, though it was damned inconvenient for me at times! 

  • Like 7
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 3/13/2019 at 12:58 PM, kokapetl said:

“We always feel like we can knock it out pretty fast. We’re overly confident like that.”

Abby has some interestingly shaped eyebrows. And what a Nancy Kulp-esque family! “Oh Mr Drysdale!”

Shouldn’t all passengers on the airplane be keeping their hands and arms inside the plane?

Next Week: Jackson gets a learners permit. 

I took a lot of screenshots, but I don’t know if I’ll bother posting any. 

Guesthouse/hole

1y0j9u.jpg

Sore feet

iy1sg8.jpg

And strike a pose

2gwgilg.jpg

John's pose immediately made me think of David Brent.

  • Laugh 4

Share this post


Link to post

I'm sure if they spend any money on travel it's written off as a business expense on their taxes!  I'll bet Theres a lot written off with filming!  Heck the government probably owes them!

These reality folks are rolling in sponsorship money!  Nobody works!

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
16 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

I'm sure if they spend any money on travel it's written off as a business expense on their taxes!  I'll bet Theres a lot written off with filming!  Heck the government probably owes them!

These reality folks are rolling in sponsorship money!  Nobody works!

"Consider the lilies of the field. They toil not. Neither do they spin. Yet even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these."

Wonder how many toddler Duggars have committed this one to memory lately? Could be a useful riposte. 

  • Like 4
  • Laugh 2

Share this post


Link to post

Ok, this is probably unpopular but I think that John David is crossing into creepy territory when he gets right in Abbie’s face all the time. He’s invading her space like crazy. Maybe she’s thrilled, flattered, does the same thing, but I’d be pushing him away. He has kind eyes, and I’m happy for him, but get the F out of her face! 

  • Like 12
  • Laugh 6

Share this post


Link to post
12 hours ago, EmeraldGirl said:

Ok, this is probably unpopular but I think that John David is crossing into creepy territory when he gets right in Abbie’s face all the time. He’s invading her space like crazy. Maybe she’s thrilled, flattered, does the same thing, but I’d be pushing him away. He has kind eyes, and I’m happy for him, but get the F out of her face! 

Thanks, you nailed it. Something drives me nuts about him  (besides the baby talk voice) & I couldn't figure it out but you did.  

I also thought it was creepy that both JD & Abbie had to tell us he wanted Abbie to wear a white gown. We all know you're getting a virgin bride JD.  No need to throw it in our faces that you think you're superior by marrying an older woman that is still a virgin.  It didn't bug me that she said it as she said it in passing like John wanted her to wear white.  But he said it in that goofy voice on their TH  that he couldn't wait to see her in her WHITE dress. (Paraphrasing)

 That goofy baby talk he does also drives me nuts.  Its fine if he wants to talk to her that way in private but when he does it in public Yuck. 

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
On 3/16/2019 at 9:08 PM, EmeraldGirl said:

Ok, this is probably unpopular but I think that John David is crossing into creepy territory when he gets right in Abbie’s face all the time. He’s invading her space like crazy. Maybe she’s thrilled, flattered, does the same thing, but I’d be pushing him away. He has kind eyes, and I’m happy for him, but get the F out of her face! 

I think in Normal World these in-your-face moments would culminate in kisses. He's going in for a kiss in what would be a natural sign of affection but, because they're not loose heathens and have special godly standards, he aborts. It looks like it feels awkward even for them. 

  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post
13 minutes ago, mimionthebeach said:

I think in Normal World these in-your-face moments would culminate in kisses. He's going in for a kiss in what would be a natural sign of affection but, because they're not loose heathens and have special godly standards, he aborts. It looks like it feels awkward even for them. 

Yes. When he does it she seems pleased so I don’t think it’s creepy (because she likes it). They sit awfully close together but they are young and enthusiastic about their relationship and they cannot have sex yet.....so I’m not surprised. 

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
On 3/17/2019 at 9:11 AM, Barb23 said:

Thanks, you nailed it. Something drives me nuts about him  (besides the baby talk voice) & I couldn't figure it out but you did.  

I also thought it was creepy that both JD & Abbie had to tell us he wanted Abbie to wear a white gown. We all know you're getting a virgin bride JD.  No need to throw it in our faces that you think you're superior by marrying an older woman that is still a virgin.  It didn't bug me that she said it as she said it in passing like John wanted her to wear white.  But he said it in that goofy voice on their TH  that he couldn't wait to see her in her WHITE dress. (Paraphrasing)

 That goofy baby talk he does also drives me nuts.  Its fine if he wants to talk to her that way in private but when he does it in public Yuck. 

I was thinking about the whole white gown thing. I wonder if he wants to show that just because she was out in the working world, wearing pants etc.... she is still a virgin and pure? 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×