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thewhiteowl

S16. E16. Bears and Cubs

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Jimmy is conflicted when his father in law asks him to tamper with evidence. Senior offers to help with the case.

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Senior!?!  Again?!? Why is he still here?  He should be off--waaaaay off-screen--taking Talia to the Louvre instead of bothering MCRT.  What the hell kind of dirt does Robert Wagner have with the producers anyhow? 

Now, if they were to bring him in as the big bad for the next season, I could get behind that.  Something about how Senior has been working a long con, and all this time Gibbs has known about it and has been giving him just enough rope to hang himself with.  I can think of no other good reason why Gibbs allows him to keep coming back and getting involved in their cases. 

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At least they had a semi-plausible reason for Senior to be there instead of just hanging out with his son's friends.

Nice good-bye for Ducky, I guess.  I kind of wish that he'd been the one to discover the lie.  That would have been a good way to go out.  David McCallum has earned a great retirement.

Other than that, fairly boring episode.

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This is all we get for Ducky’s retirement episode?  I sure hope there’s a retirement party. In some ways,  I could see where there might not be- the character didn’t even tell anyone when his mother died.  

I’ll miss the character and the actor.  I hope the actor enjoys his third act.  He’s sure earned it. 

I had no doubt jimmy would do the right thing. 

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I only saw a bit of it but what happened to Larry Miller???? Man, he looks rough...

EDIT: I just looked it up as I really was concerned...Apparently, he fell and hit his head in 2013..injuring his head severely..was even in a coma....Wow, a survivor for sure...

Edited by stonehaven
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I doubt that's the last of Ducky.  Surely, we'll get one more Ducky story before the season finale.  Abby got more fanfare than that and Pauley was feuding with everybody.  The episode was boring, but Palmer has to have an episode at least once per season.  On a side note, David McCallum looked really good in this one.  He looked closer to Mark Harmon's age than 85!  If a character from a long running show ever deserved a prequel, it's Ducky.

Edited by Magnumfangirl
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I was hoping for a Brina sighting!  By the way, how did Brina come from THAT family???  a weasely gambling dad and a crying man-child following in his footsteops!  I think Gibbs knew Jimmy was lying from the start because Jimmy has as many "tells" as his father-in-law.

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Why wouldn't the funeral guy just cremate the body? Wouldn't that be way, way easier to get away with? 

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The son was the gambler, not the dad.  Poor old Dad was just trying to clean up his son's mess once again.

I believe Jimmy told Torres in the elevator conversation that Gibbs knew he was lying, and knew that Jimmy knew he knew.

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1 minute ago, Loves2Dance said:

Why wouldn't the funeral guy just cremate the body? Wouldn't that be way, way easier to get away with? 

He said he didn't want the dead marine to just 'disappear' because he knew there would be family wanting to know what happened to him; he was supposed to cremate him but just couldn't bring himself to do it.

The bear attack cover story was doomed to fail,

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5 minutes ago, Trey said:

He said he didn't want the dead marine to just 'disappear' because he knew there would be family wanting to know what happened to him; he was supposed to cremate him but just couldn't bring himself to do it.

The bear attack cover story was doomed to fail,

Yes, but it makes no logical sense. If he cared about his son he would have just done it and gotten it over with. 

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3 hours ago, morriss said:

Which rule ## is  "Don't lie to Gibbs" ???

One would think it would be Rule 1.

58 minutes ago, Loves2Dance said:

Yes, but it makes no logical sense. If he cared about his son he would have just done it and gotten it over with. 

He was willing to cover up a murder, but not doom a family to a life of wondering what happened to their son.  Everybody has their line somewhere.  I love people in my family, but I don't think I'd even go as far as trying to cover up the murder.  Maybe I would.  But, the original deal was just to wipe the debt clean right?  they didn't kidnap him until after he didn't cremate the body.  I think my mind wandered at some point.

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1 hour ago, Loves2Dance said:

Yes, but it makes no logical sense. If he cared about his son he would have just done it and gotten it over with. 

Like almost everything in life it's not a black or white situation. He cares about his son but also didn't want to put another family through the pain of having a loved one "disappear". Humans very rarely base their decisions on pure logic.

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This was an interesting episode, despite Senior.  I do love Palmer-centric episodes.  I also agree that we're not done with Ducky.  

But I'm not happy with the treatment of Tim.  He's the published author, but the way Ellie and Torres were getting after him about grammar and spelling was just bullying.  If that had been the old days, and it it had been Tony trying that, Tim would have verbally skewered him.

And speaking of Senior, it was nice that he was just peripherally involved and was drawn in rather than just busting in and accepted as part of the team.  But..........it made no sense that he was in that poker game in the first place.  No sense.  Supposedly that was a friendly game with proprietors of neighborhood businesses.  Senior neither owns a business, nor does he have any reason to be in that neighborhood.  I appreciate that the writers tried to insert Senior into the story in a different way, but it made no sense.

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78dafc58b0e16965b9305c3851ee9a3ed380c048

In the NCIS of my chosen world, that photo would be cropped to the immediate left of Tim.

And Ducky would be in a hazy background Greek Chorus with Fornell and even Senior  with Fornell's daughter, Tim's sister and Vance's children. 

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1 hour ago, enoughcats said:

78dafc58b0e16965b9305c3851ee9a3ed380c048

In the NCIS of my chosen world, that photo would be cropped to the immediate left of Tim.

And Ducky would be in a hazy background Greek Chorus with Fornell and even Senior  with Fornell's daughter, Tim's sister and Vance's children. 

I'll agree to the crop, but we have to switch Ellie and Jack's places and I'd like to movie Ducky over also, even though he's retiring,

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On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 3:10 PM, HurricaneVal said:

Senior!?!  Again?!? Why is he still here?  He should be off--waaaaay off-screen--taking Talia to the Louvre instead of bothering MCRT.  

Also, why wasn't Bishop trying to feel him out to see if he knows anything about Ziva still being alive?

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8 hours ago, morriss said:

Which rule ## is  "Don't lie to Gibbs" ???

Palmer also violated the, "Don't interrupt Gibbs in interrogation" rule.

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6 hours ago, Trey said:

The bear attack cover story was doomed to fail,

It should have been pretty obvious that the fake bear claw marks were inflicted post-mortem.

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1 hour ago, eel2178 said:

Also, why wasn't Bishop trying to feel him out to see if he knows anything about Ziva still being alive?

Because she decided she didn't care. I support that position.

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Saw a re-run tonight in which Jimmy excitedly mentioned that his dad "is a research ophthalmologist" and would often pontificate about the eye at the dinner table.

Seems his father got a bit of retconning to fit in with the episode's storyline (though I had totally forgot about this too, until seeing the rerun tonight).

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7 hours ago, Katy M said:

Which rule ## is  "Don't lie to Gibbs" ???

There is none.

If anyone is interested here's a link to Gibbs' Rules:   https://goo.gl/i8oNKV

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34 minutes ago, preeya said:

There is none.

If anyone is interested here's a link to Gibbs' Rules:   https://goo.gl/i8oNKV

Actually, from that link, it would seem 'Don't lie to Gibbs' is McGee's rule number 1.

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I just couldn't make it through this episode, even using the ff button.

I have never been able to watch Senior and there was no point him being there for this at all anyway.

I have enjoyed watching Palmer growing as a character but this was all too cringy for me - I think it is the first ever episode that I have bailed on in the entire history of NCIS - does not bode well.

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One thing that has been made very clear to me from watching these types of shows is to always step very carefully when taking a stroll through the woods because if you should happen to trip and fall, you will invariably land face to face with a rotting corpse.

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On 3/13/2019 at 1:47 PM, HurricaneVal said:

But I'm not happy with the treatment of Tim.  He's the published author, but the way Ellie and Torres were getting after him about grammar and spelling was just bullying. 

I  have a different slant on the characterizations.  Nothing about the way Torres has been written indicates that he would be the type to even notice typos.  And Tim as written seems like the type who would absolutely appreciate knowing about typos and be mortified if there was one.  But I don't think it was bullying how they pointed it out.

20 hours ago, secnarf said:

Saw a re-run tonight in which Jimmy excitedly mentioned that his dad "is a research ophthalmologist" and would often pontificate about the eye at the dinner table.

Seems his father got a bit of retconning to fit in with the episode's storyline (though I had totally forgot about this too, until seeing the rerun tonight).

I knew when I saw the episode, that there had to be some retconning.  Also, whether or not Brina's father had cared to proactively ask about Jimmy's life, there is no way he would not have known about Jimmy's father having died when Jimmy was 10.  It's definitely something Brina would have mentioned to her parents, especially given that there was a wedding where Jimmy's father would have not been there.

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On 3/14/2019 at 2:12 PM, LuvMyShows said:

I  have a different slant on the characterizations.  Nothing about the way Torres has been written indicates that he would be the type to even notice typos.  And Tim as written seems like the type who would absolutely appreciate knowing about typos and be mortified if there was one.  But I don't think it was bullying how they pointed it out.

Totally agree with this. It was out of character for McGee to act like misspelling a word was no big deal, and to have to have those two explain the difference between the words? Come on!

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I always had the impression that Brina’s Father looked down his nose at Jimmy and didn’t really care about him one way or  the other. He never thought jimmy was good enough for brina so I can totally see him not remembering (or caring to remember) that he knew about jimmy’s father.

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I've always liked Jimmy, and so I enjoyed his story. Whether or not his family background was retconned (likely), it was an effective story, imo.

I enjoyed the banter about words - I've experienced just that sort of banter and going down the rabbit trail of word definitions in my life as a writer. A writer needs some pretty thick skin - especially when they've been published, as McGee has. I think Elly is absolutely the type who'd go down that path, and Torres was just looking for a way to tease him.

Edited by Clanstarling
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On 3/16/2019 at 7:04 AM, Sake614 said:

I always had the impression that Brina’s Father looked down his nose at Jimmy and didn’t really care about him one way or  the other. He never thought jimmy was good enough for brina so I can totally see him not remembering (or caring to remember) that he knew about jimmy’s father.

That would also explain why he didn't recognize the name DiNizzo when he met Senior after having met Tony.  If I remember right, he didn't consider NCIS to be very important.

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On 3/15/2019 at 3:53 AM, Rambler said:

One thing that has been made very clear to me from watching these types of shows is to always step very carefully when taking a stroll through the woods because if you should happen to trip and fall, you will invariably land face to face with a rotting corpse.

I'm amazed that I have been in Central Park NYC a couple of times and never been murdered or attacked.

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56 minutes ago, Kelda Feegle said:

I'm amazed that I have been in Central Park NYC a couple of times and never been murdered or attacked.

Just be extra careful if you go to Rock Creek Park in DC.  Or at least look out for dead petty officers.

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On 3/17/2019 at 9:04 PM, Driad said:

Just be extra careful if you go to Rock Creek Park in DC.  Or at least look out for dead petty officers.

How many bodies have they found there?  Worse than Cabot Cove:)

And don’t go swimming.

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On 3/17/2019 at 11:06 PM, Kelda Feegle said:

I'm amazed that I have been in Central Park NYC a couple of times and never been murdered or attacked.

From what I've learned from TV, there is no random crime in Central Park - bodies are always moved there or it is staged.  So don't commit infidelity, get involved with the mafia, etc. and you should be safe.

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On 3/19/2019 at 2:30 AM, scorpio1031 said:

How many bodies have they found there?  Worse than Cabot Cove:)

And don’t go swimming.

And don’t hang out with the Harts. 

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On 3/13/2019 at 8:14 PM, secnarf said:

Saw a re-run tonight in which Jimmy excitedly mentioned that his dad "is a research ophthalmologist" and would often pontificate about the eye at the dinner table.

Seems his father got a bit of retconning to fit in with the episode's storyline (though I had totally forgot about this too, until seeing the rerun tonight).

I just finished this episode and my eyebrows immediately rose when Palmer gave that "bad Dad" story. Wasn't he gushing about his parents when he witnessed a crime and was a target? He told Gibbs that he calls them often with news of his days etc. I came here looking for someone else to remember the original parent story or clarify if he has a step-father. This just proves that Gibbs has to be Dad to them all. Ducky, I understand, but now Gibbs is one of his father figures too? That wouldn't be so bad if they didn't have to give him a "bad Dad" in the process. 

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