S09.E14: Found

[ElectricBoogaloo]

SEASON FINALE!

Quote

As the Gallaghers decide what to do with a bedridden Frank, Fiona has to make a decision about her future; Carl and Debbie share their heartbreak together; Lip has to deal with a distressed Tami.

Promo:

Clip:

Original air date: 3/10/19

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Goodbye, Fiona

[Dee]

The writing for this season has been HORRIBLE.

That said, this finale (for the later season of Shameless) was fairly solid.

The performances (this episode better earn Emmy an Emmy), and most especially the music cues, were especially good for this episode; but it loses major points for Fiona not getting proper goodbye scenes with Debbie, Liam & Carl.

[kathe5133]

It says something about the acting abilities of William H. Macy and Emmy Rossum that I could be moved to tears by a scene where neither spoke.

[preeya]

IMHO: Emmy Rossum's departure should have been the catalyst to end the series. Not anticipating anything good for season 10.

Liam is the only interesting/comical character left. I simply abhor Lip's baby mama and hope she's not around next season. Lip as a dad, not. Debbie as the Gallagher matriarch, nope. Carl and truck girl, another nope. Then, of course, there's all played out Frank. As I said no anticipation for another season.

Edited March 10, 2019 by preeya

[snarts]

I hate when people go off to some nameless place.  Why couldn't they just pick some country or state for Fiona to move to?  I get that when she initially talked about is, she might not have settled on a destination.  But the plane was obviously going somewhere, what's the harm in her spending a few minutes to research it? When they mention her next season, will they suddenly unveil where she went?

Also, I understand leaving money for the family, but $50k.  They're just going to blow it.  Fiona should've left $5k, she's going to need the rest.

[chocolatine]

I'm really happy that Fiona's exit didn't involve JimmySteve. I've always thought he was a piece of shit who got a kick out of lying to everyone, including Fiona. Loved the scene with Frank and Fiona talking without looking at each other, as well as the scene with Fiona and Ian with him being so supportive of her leaving. BTW, Ian is looking well, seems like he's taking his meds.

This episode would have made an excellent series finale, too bad Showtime won't put the show out of its misery.

[Forever8]

First time positing under this forum! 

Positives 

• Fiona deciding that it was time for her to leave the Gallagher household and more importantly the South Side with her head on her shoulder. 
• Carl going back to military school and quitting Captain Bob's (Sidenote: His boss not sexually harassing him any further Thank God) 
• Liam basically telling his family that they're garbage. 
• Fiona and Vee get a scene in I don't know how long?
• Frank and Fiona's underplayed goodbye scene. 
• And a appearance made by Ian!
• A Gallagher Party 

Negatives 

• Like the poster above me stating that Fiona should've mentioned where she was heading to. I mean she did say she was sick of the winter. So I'm guessing somewhere warm like Los Angeles, Somewhere In Florida?, Hawaii, Or maybe Spain? (My guesses) I hope she either decides to go to into Real Estate as a realtor or take some type of hospitality management course. 
• Kelley and Carl getting back together. 
• Lip's Girlfriend? Sometimes I see potential in her character ... Sometimes I'm ready for her to be dropped off a bus stop never to be seen again. 
• No goodbyes with Liam or Carl 
• No conclusion to Carl's other annoying girlfriend who was stalking him. 
• Trying to figure how Season 10 is going to go?! 

Edited March 10, 2019 by Forever8

[childeroland]

Nice send off for Fiona.

[tomsmom]

Omg so Liam complains about them not respecting his black culture and they “borrow” an obviously mentally disabled black guy to take care of Frank??? Fuck this show.

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah.. I didn’t like it. And I’ll probably be alone in that. Also don’t know how we’re getting another season of this show because I honestly can’t stand any who are left.

Also wish Liam had just said he left because no one in the family gives a damn about him, he can leave for two days and no one calls and then when he returns they expect him to play nurse to frank so they can do whatever they he’ll they want. I mean I get be wabts to embrace his culture and all that but still.

I can’t stand lip and his pregnant girlfriend story.

[Armchair Critic]

Lip's girlfriend is the worst. The one scene I did like was Kevin telling Lip just to love his kid.

[Hellohappylife]

I thought it was kind of shitty that Fiona left while her family was out spending money ,that the family doesn’t even have.  And she didn’t even say goodbye to Liam,who she has legal guardianship over?

Her giving them $50k was a nice touch to add. It reminds you of the earlier season’s when Fiona put her families needs before her own.

Her exit really left no closure to her character?  Maybe the writers left it open,In case Emmy wants to come back, although I think she’s over Shameless. 

I loved that her final scene with frank ended the way it did. And not the typical fairytale “it’s okay i forgive you for being a shitty father” way.

Carl’s scene where he feels he is destined for failure because if he’s background,was probably one of his best to date. I think so many people can relate to that. And his Boss is so creepy, I know it’s a show but it’s still gross.

Like others I am also over Lip’s Girl. She’s constantly just telling him he’s a loser. She’s so arrogant and I have no idea why.

I’m all for women making their own choice when pregnant,but it’s not fair that she keeps giving Lip mixed signals,one day she wants the baby,the next day she doesn’t.  If she didn’t want Lips opinion then she should have been women enough to figure it out on her own and then telling him her choice.  Or taking measures to prevent becoming pregnant in the first place.  You can’t keep playing games,if you want abortion fine,do it very early,because That little blob of cells in your uterus is gonna start looking like a real baby soon,and if she wants to adopt the baby out,then what the hell  is so wrong with Lip wanting HIS child? What’s the difference between a stranger? Her job is over after birth. 

The constant whining about how horrible her childhood is getting annoying as hell. Lip had a fucked up one too,but he’s not crying all the time over it. 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Hellohappylife

[Chaos Theory]

I stopped trying to make this show something it wasn’t and just started to enjoy it for what it is.  Yes it would have been nice to have Fiona have scenes with Carl Debbie and Liam but they were unnecessary for her to have  and it is unnecessary to really know where she is going because she doesn’t know.  The plane is ultimately symbolic of her leaving the hood and it doesn’t matter to where.

I know people like Liam and I thought the scene with him asking to move to his friends house was funny because who hadn’t ask their parents to do something when things are hectic?  But ultimately I thought his demands were unrealistic.  Even demanding his own room was selfish where Debbie is sleeping with her baby.  Why should Liam be the one? Which room is he expecting to get Fiona old room?

I really liked Carl’s story.  He had the Gallagher breakdown. “This is all I am good for and I was stupid to dream bigger.”  But I really liked how Debbie and his girlfriend forced him to go back to military school even if it isn’t West Point. I  would find it really ironic if of all the Gallagher’s Carl is the one to succeed in life.

i think next season the show needs to find a direction for Debbie where she isn’t crushing on someone unattainable.  Or even just have her succeed in her job without a love interest.

i think Lip would be a great dad.  I hate his gf and don’t care at all about her and wouldn’t care if she dropped the kid on the doorstep but I would love to see Lip as a dad.  It is all the had evet wanted.  Even more then Debbie has wanted to be a mom.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[Kip Hackman]

Considering how important Fiona has always been to the show, I found her send-off to be underwhelming.

I guess I'll check out S10, but I feel like this is a show that ran out of story a few years ago.

[Chaos Theory]

12 minutes ago, Kip Hackman said:

Considering how important Fiona has always been to the show, I found her send-off to be underwhelming.

I guess I'll check out S10, but I feel like this is a show that ran out of story a few years ago.

I think to a certain respect that is the point.  If Fiona had run off with JimmySteve back in season one she would have left a huge hole because the kids were still young.  Even Lip and Ian still needed her to be “mom”.   Now Debbie has mostly taken over and has a kid over her own.  Ian is in prison.  Carl is gone a good portion of the year at military school and Lip is a grown man.   The only one who really truly needs her is Frank and he would need forever so she either needs to get out now or commit to giving him sponge baths for the rest of her life.

[preeya]

6 hours ago, Hellohappylife said:

Like others I am also over Lip’s Girl. She’s constantly just telling him he’s a loser. She’s so arrogant and I have no idea why.

I have no idea why SHE'S EVEN PART OF THE SHOW. She absolutely brings nothing to the show, and her storyline SUCKS.

[preeya]

Why Emmy Rossum's Final Shameless Episode Ended Fiona's Story That Way

read it here:  https://goo.gl/e7iQrS

There are spoilers in the article.

[Dance4Life]

I am not pro abortion ....and, I won’t even say otherwise in a pretend way for this show.

But, FFS! Lips girlfriend would make a horrible mother.  It is best she has the kid.....then it turns out it is the ex boyfriend. 

Then baby daddy’s nice family can adopt the baby.  

I guess the episode was alright! 

For the show it was awesome she gave Debbie the 50Ks.  It means she trust Debbie all the way.

Debbie would be awesome marrying a blue collar millionaire. A man who rented a bunch of houses in middle class neighborhoods.  Debbie would be right there knocking doors making sure the rent got paid.

[taanja]

I loved it. What a lovely send off for my Fiona. She looked around. She watched. She noted that everyone was living their lives -- without her. Even Liam is taking care of his own needs. The only one who will need Fiona perpetually is Frank. It came across to me that Fiona figured out that little detail on her own and decided it was time to get the hell outta Dodge!

The only thing is-- she can't just fly out of the country on a whim-- Hello!!! passport!

She mentioned this was the first time she has ever flown. This whole thing seemed like an act of spontaneity. One does not get a passport on the fly. So that tells me she is staying in the states -- maybe SoCal or AZ or Florida? Someplace warm.

Loved seeing Ian! I am glad he was supportive of Fiona's choice to leave.

Not sure what the next season will be like with out Fiona? I can't even imagine the Gallagher's without her.

Edited March 11, 2019 by taanja

[scrb]

The final encounter between Fiona and Frank was him grabbing his junk to wash it while they made eye contact?

Otherwise uncharacteristically sentimental for this show.

The Gallagher kids all have reasons to love Fiona since she raised them.  Why does she love them necessarily?  Motherly instinct?  Certainly the things they've done haven't been endearing.

That said, they should be rooting for each other to get out.  There may yet be the makings of a happy ending for all the characters.  The baby may get Lip to drop his fake James Dean act, do something with his supposed genius and provide a much better life for his kid than he has.

Carl has the love of a good woman is what we're suppose to get out of this?  She will rescue him from fast food hell, though unless Carl has some hidden book smarts, that wasn't necessarily a bad avenue to pursue.  If he can't get into the military academy, is he going to enlist and become a grunt or cannon fodder?  The military can be an opportunity to build a career and useful skills but he could also end up in a war, kind of they feared Ian would.

And they will probably find a love interest for Debbie again.

Frank may be the last one to turn off the lights.  He won't reform or better himself.

[whiporee]

it went about as well as it could have, but that's because I like both Tami and Kelli, and I'm fine with them becoming regular parts of the cast next year.  I'm not sure what Kelli sees in Carl, but I'll take it -- I thought her scene in Captain Bob's and the zip tie was hilarious. Also her conversation with Debbie where she was misunderstanding what Debbie was going through, and what she had done to Carl. And I thought the Lip and Tami stuff was pretty good, too. she's a rational person who explodes sometimes,  and he's a good fit for her. 

On the character consistency front, though, I didn't get Lip's hesitance to put the kid up for adoption. He was fine with it when Karen was pregnant and he thought it was his -- he even made a video for the kid to know who he was. I think there's a chance the writers forgot about that plot line -- it was a while ago, after all.

Also, Carl's been though a lot. Being a gang member, selling guns, selling drugs doing hard time, kidnapping junkies, losing about three girls he'd had hardcore crushes on (not to mention Cassidy), cornrows -- I think his breakdown over not getting into West Point didn't seem in character. He's been tougher than that over the years. 

I have one overlying question about the episode -- why was Frank so intentionally cruel to Debbie? What was he trying to achieve? We've seen him lash out, but he's always got his best interest at heart and Deb was the only one who knew where the oxytocin's was. Why would he intentionally want to turn her against him? I didn't get that (reading the ancillary material around the ep, I get the feeling WHM didn't understand it, either) 

The Liam-eye-view of the family was pretty cool. The rest of the Liam story wasn't as cool -- but I'm glad they are addressing the elephant in the room as far as he's concerned. 

And as for Fiona. it all felt organic, because they've been showing her disconnect from the family for a while. They've been going up without her, and she was finally clear enough in her head to get it. The scene with Lip was good -- not as good as it should have been, but good -- and the scene with Frank was close to being great, but I thought it was killed by Fiona saying "I did it all." They both knew it; there was no need for her to say it. 

It made perfect sense for the family to have the party even though she had already left. Lip's expression reminded me of Ben Affleck's at the end of Good Will Hunting -- sort of sad, but glad she finally got out. 

I'm encouraged for what happens next, but I'll miss ER. She did a great job for a long time -- I've never seen her be nearly as good in anything else -- and I hope what she does next is as much fun. 

[LibertarianSlut]

I thought the episode was poor.  Either it was a series finale or it wasn't.  Since it apparently is not, we could have treaded a little lighter, and it would have been fine. Carl having a big, dramatic Ian-type scene with Fiona didn't work for me.  

Ok, everyone is going to hate me, and say this is a retread of the lemonade stand, but if I were Fiona and I had a window seat my first time on a plane, and some stranger put her daughter there so that the daughter could see take-off without having asked my permission?  I would have said hell to the no.  That is the most presumptuous thing ever.  If the mother wanted to do it classy, she would have sat her daughter in the daughter's assigned seat, and upon meeting Fiona, could have asked her for the privilege.  Me being me, I would have said no either way.  It was Fiona's first time on a plane.  If she booked a window seat, she gets a window seat, but that was all kinds of advantage-takey for me to appreciate the scene for what it was supposed to portray, which was...I don't really know.

I was relived that Deb found the $50k, and not Frank, but, yes, the family is going to be "fine," and I think Fiona paid her debt a million times over, so maybe keep the money?

I didn't think it was right to bring Seamus in at the eleventh hour as if we were supposed to appreciate his existence.  At first, I thought Deb brought Neal back, and somehow he was walking, but I thought if they were really going to take care of Frank (which they have no responsibility to do; I would have dropped him off at the nearest emergency room and hightailed it out of there), then it should have been Chucky, approximately 16 years old, whom Sammi sent back to take care of "Da-ya-d."  Who is this Seamus, and why are we just meeting him now?

If I feel bad for anyone in this Lip situation, it's Brad!  Lip, you can't just leave the shop and "make up the hours."  There are people who had motorcycles promised to them at a specified time.  And I feel bad for the sponsee who couldn't be taught to change an air filter.  That being said, I think Lip performed extraordinarily in this epi, and the pain on his face when he was confronting the idea of the baby being placed for adoption was very believable.  I also think Tami is a very good actress, so I am taken in by their situation, even though the facts are a little stupid.  When Tami accused Lip of being someone who would smoke himself to death, and he said, all dejected, "I'll quit," it kind of broke my heart.  I noticed he did not smoke one cigarette for the rest of the episode.  If anything made me tear it, up was not Fiona's absence, but Lip's excitement about having the barbecue and going up to find Fiona, only to see that she was gone.  That hit me harder than anything Frank and/or Fiona had to say.  

That being said, I didn't agree with Kev that you just love kids and you won't fuck them up.  Teaching girls, for instance, that they can and should raise children without the influence of a man, is a lesson I often see passed down between generations of women who love each other, and I think it's about the most toxic thing that you can teach a child.  

Kev, you got your sex back...congratulations?  Not a scene that inspired anything in me.  

I revised my opinion on Kelly.  She had every right in the world to break up with Carl; I didn't think she should have continued to hang out at his house afterward, but I think the wrongest person in that situation was Deb, who was actively trying to steal Carl's girlfriend out from under him.  It didn't sit right with me that they were getting revenge on her for having the temerity to break two Gallagher hearts (it was reminiscent of the revenge Deb and them took on Ford earlier this season--the payback being too high to be enjoyable--) but I guess things turned out alright.  

The only storyline left was Liam's and that fell flat to me.  Liam isn't black any more than Fiona, Lip, Carl and Deb are black--they are all 1/8 black.  This is what the show told us since very early on.  I don't like the revisionist history they are trying to portray now that Liam's blackness has been all but ignored.  No one has ever treated him any differently--he was just a Gallagher.  I am sympathetic to the idea that Liam is going to be perceived as black by the rest of the population, when the rest of the Gallahers are going to be perceived as white, and if they were a functional family, this would have been discussed from day one.  But they're not functional, and Liam moving out until the family met his 46 demands felt manipulative to me.  I would have just let him stay with the other family--he probably would have been better off.  I was also not especially appreciative of the idea that Liam's newfound black identity would lead him to hang pictures of Frederick Douglass, MLK, and Barak Obama in his room.  Did he choose each and every one of these pieces because they resonated with him?  I doubt it.  It feels like exploitation of the viewer, and of black people especially.  "Oh, Liam has 'realized' he is black, so he is going to be an Obama supporter" is very knee-jerk and stereotypical, and disrespectful to me.  it feels like the show is trying to say that white people can live nuanced lives (Wyman/Ruiz/White election earlier this season), but black people cannot.  

That's about all I have to say.  I don't know if I will tune in for another season.  It's not that I love Fiona; it's just that this show is not getting any better, and I hope I can just be done with it.  

[WhosThatGirl]

9 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

I thought the episode was poor.  Either it was a series finale or it wasn't.  Since it apparently is not, we could have treaded a little lighter, and it would have been fine. Carl having a big, dramatic Ian-type scene with Fiona didn't work for me.  

Ok, everyone is going to hate me, and say this is a retread of the lemonade stand, but if I were Fiona and I had a window seat my first time on a plane, and some stranger put her daughter there so that the daughter could see take-off without having asked my permission?  I would have said hell to the no.  That is the most presumptuous thing ever.  If the mother wanted to do it classy, she would have sat her daughter in the daughter's assigned seat, and upon meeting Fiona, could have asked her for the privilege.  Me being me, I would have said no either way.  It was Fiona's first time on a plane.  If she booked a window seat, she gets a window seat, but that was all kinds of advantage-takey for me to appreciate the scene for what it was supposed to portray, which was...I don't really know.

I was relived that Deb found the $50k, and not Frank, but, yes, the family is going to be "fine," and I think Fiona paid her debt a million times over, so maybe keep the money?

I didn't think it was right to bring Seamus in at the eleventh hour as if we were supposed to appreciate his existence.  At first, I thought Deb brought Neal back, and somehow he was walking, but I thought if they were really going to take care of Frank (which they have no responsibility to do; I would have dropped him off at the nearest emergency room and hightailed it out of there), then it should have been Chucky, approximately 16 years old, whom Sammi sent back to take care of "Da-ya-d."  Who is this Seamus, and why are we just meeting him now?

If I feel bad for anyone in this Lip situation, it's Brad!  Lip, you can't just leave the shop and "make up the hours."  There are people who had motorcycles promised to them at a specified time.  And I feel bad for the sponsee who couldn't be taught to change an air filter.  That being said, I think Lip performed extraordinarily in this epi, and the pain on his face when he was confronting the idea of the baby being placed for adoption was very believable.  I also think Tami is a very good actress, so I am taken in by their situation, even though the facts are a little stupid.  When Tami accused Lip of being someone who would smoke himself to death, and he said, all dejected, "I'll quit," it kind of broke my heart.  I noticed he did not smoke one cigarette for the rest of the episode.  If anything made me tear it, up was not Fiona's absence, but Lip's excitement about having the barbecue and going up to find Fiona, only to see that she was gone.  That hit me harder than anything Frank and/or Fiona had to say.  

That being said, I didn't agree with Kev that you just love kids and you won't fuck them up.  Teaching girls, for instance, that they can and should raise children without the influence of a man, is a lesson I often see passed down between generations of women who love each other, and I think it's about the most toxic thing that you can teach a child.  

Kev, you got your sex back...congratulations?  Not a scene that inspired anything in me.  

I revised my opinion on Kelly.  She had every right in the world to break up with Carl; I didn't think she should have continued to hang out at his house afterward, but I think the wrongest person in that situation was Deb, who was actively trying to steal Carl's girlfriend out from under him.  It didn't sit right with me that they were getting revenge on her for having the temerity to break two Gallagher hearts (it was reminiscent of the revenge Deb and them took on Ford earlier this season--the payback being too high to be enjoyable--) but I guess things turned out alright.  

The only storyline left was Liam's and that fell flat to me.  Liam isn't black any more than Fiona, Lip, Carl and Deb are black--they are all 1/8 black.  This is what the show told us since very early on.  I don't like the revisionist history they are trying to portray now that Liam's blackness has been all but ignored.  No one has ever treated him any differently--he was just a Gallagher.  I am sympathetic to the idea that Liam is going to be perceived as black by the rest of the population, when the rest of the Gallahers are going to be perceived as white, and if they were a functional family, this would have been discussed from day one.  But they're not functional, and Liam moving out until the family met his 46 demands felt manipulative to me.  I would have just let him stay with the other family--he probably would have been better off.  I was also not especially appreciative of the idea that Liam's newfound black identity would lead him to hang pictures of Frederick Douglass, MLK, and Barak Obama in his room.  Did he choose each and every one of these pieces because they resonated with him?  I doubt it.  It feels like exploitation of the viewer, and of black people especially.  "Oh, Liam has 'realized' he is black, so he is going to be an Obama supporter" is very knee-jerk and stereotypical, and disrespectful to me.  it feels like the show is trying to say that white people can live nuanced lives (Wyman/Ruiz/White election earlier this season), but black people cannot.  

That's about all I have to say.  I don't know if I will tune in for another season.  It's not that I love Fiona; it's just that this show is not getting any better, and I hope I can just be done with it.  

This is kind of how I feel about this whole episode, minus a few things. 

I just thought the episode was.. boring. And maybe that was the point? Maybe Fiona’s final episode and moments weren’t supposed to be a big thing but to me they were supposed to be more than what we got. I was just waiting for something. 

The Liam thing bugs me because as I said in an earlier post, I wish liam had just moved out and decided to live elsewhere had nothing to do with race but to the fact that his family is terrible to him and forgets about him, on the daily and only want him around to do things like watch Frank. But yet they hardly ever know where he is half the time. I never found this story funny that he was gone for two days and no one cared. So I kind of wish that was where they went with it. That now he can live in a house where someone makes dinner every night and cares about his well being and all that.

It made me sad that Fiona left without a proper moment with everyone but I get that that was the point. I guess I’m also alone in not liking her moment with Frank either. But again I’m also one of those people who hates that episode a few weeks back when Fiona and frank were partying it up together because it felt random that all of a sudden they were great and she was taking advice from him. I don’t get why the kids even ackowldge Frank past season three. He called cps on them because they threw him out and yet.. no one mentions that. I’m just over the Frank character. 

Im not sure what next season will be like. More frank doing stupid stuff that leads nowhere. Lip and his pregnant girlfriend while she dangles her pregnancy back and forth on him. Carl and his crazy girlfriend. Debbie doing.. something.  Eh. 

[taanja]

10 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

It made me sad that Fiona left without a proper moment with everyone but I get that that was the point. I guess I’m also alone in not liking her moment with Frank either. But again I’m also one of those people who hates that episode a few weeks back when Fiona and frank were partying it up together because it felt random that all of a sudden they were great and she was taking advice from him. I don’t get why the kids even ackowldge Frank past season three. He called cps on them because they threw him out and yet.. no one mentions that. I’m just over the Frank character. 

That is when Fiona hit "rock bottom" -- she woke up beside Frank in the abandoned appt building -- puking her guts up. She was always the first to condemn any Gallagher for listening to Frank and then she went against her own advice and paid the price. Hence-- rock bottom.

[WhosThatGirl]

Just now, taanja said:

That is when Fiona hit "rock bottom" -- she woke up beside Frank in the abandoned appt building -- puking her guts up. She was always the first to condemn any Gallagher for listening to Frank and then she went against her own advice and paid the price. Hence-- rock bottom.

I understand that but it still didn’t work for me and it really just felt like WHM and ER wanted scenes together. Kind of like when frank was going to pay for Fiona’s wedding to Sean a few seasons ago.. and that was because ER and WHM had asked for an episode of scenes together. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s what happened this season. 

[scrb]

So Emmy Rossums must have left on bad terms?

Either she didn't want to come back or she was written off the show, which is why she announced at the start of the season that she wasn't coming back the next season?

Not a good year for female leads on Showtime -- Rossums, Ruth Wilson, Frankie Shaw.

[junemeatcleaver]

Quote

 I am sympathetic to the idea that Liam is going to be perceived as black by the rest of the population, when the rest of the Gallahers are going to be perceived as white, and if they were a functional family, this would have been discussed from day one.  But they're not functional, and Liam moving out until the family met his 46 demands felt manipulative to me.  I would have just let him stay with the other family--he probably would have been better off.  

Liam realizing he's Black is realistic, even if the Gallaghers always treated him the same, but it's probably something the show never should have broached since it's a storyline that requires more nuance and sensitivity this show is capable of.  It's like they're realizing that their silly joke about this very white family having a Black baby brother wasn't all that funny and they're trying to fix it. 

As for all the stereotypes, I get why the show went that way.  Sometimes when you first start embracing an identity, you go a little overboard.  But Shameless is so over-the-top I don't trust that they can find a balance for Liam.

Fiona and Frank's goodbye was really well done.  Emmy and WHM are really the best actors on this show, I get why they keep him around despite Frank's antics being beyond tired.

[WhosThatGirl]

8 minutes ago, scrb said:

So Emmy Rossums must have left on bad terms?

Either she didn't want to come back or she was written off the show, which is why she announced at the start of the season that she wasn't coming back the next season?

Not a good year for female leads on Showtime -- Rossums, Ruth Wilson, Frankie Shaw.

I’m not sure if it’s good terms or bad. When she announced it about two weeks before this season even started airing(and only the first half had been filmed and the rest were still being written and shooting) all of the statements including hers, the networks, and the creator of the show made it seem like it was a good parting on both parties.

Then this half of this season started airing and Fiona’s storyline was AWFUL. I still find it awful even if they tried to turn it around these last three episodes, they just seems to throw this ending together for her. So I don’t know what the terms actually were now. 

[taanja]

20 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I understand that but it still didn’t work for me and it really just felt like WHM and ER wanted scenes together. Kind of like when frank was going to pay for Fiona’s wedding to Sean a few seasons ago.. and that was because ER and WHM had asked for an episode of scenes together. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s what happened this season. 

I don't follow actors or behind the scenes shit. I only go by what I saw-- and what the show "showed" me worked quite well I thought. It didn't feel inorganic. 

[WhosThatGirl]

8 minutes ago, 17wheatthins said:

I would have liked to see Fiona refuse to give up her window seat on the plane because she is finally done putting others’ needs and wants before hers for good. I think it would have been a really nice moment to hear her disclose it was her first time on a plane also, and then maybe cut to the outside of the plane with Fiona’s excited face looking out the window.  

Yeah.. I thought it was rude for the mom to just plop her daughter there like @LibertarianSlut said. You can’t just assume others would be okay just because you have a child and Fiona wouldn’t have been rude to say as much- that was her seat. 

[Kip Hackman]

1 hour ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Then this half of this season started airing and Fiona’s storyline was AWFUL. I still find it awful even if they tried to turn it around these last three episodes, they just seems to throw this ending together for her. So I don’t know what the terms actually were now. 

From what I've read, the season was originally supposed to end with Fiona going to the AA meeting.  So the writers had always planned on Fiona spiraling and bottoming out.  Emmy's departure only changed how quickly that arc was resolved.

[Lemons]

14 hours ago, Hellohappylife said:

I thought it was kind of shitty that Fiona left while her family was out spending money ,that the family doesn’t even have.  And she didn’t even say goodbye to Liam,who she has legal guardianship over?

Her giving them $50k was a nice touch to add. It reminds you of the earlier season’s when Fiona put her families needs before her own.

That was bugging me the whole show!  Who is caring for Liam?  It's not enough Liam has no mother and a foul psychopath for a father but the sister who went to court to obtain guardianship for him walks about without saying goodbye.  Right.  

Debbie is as trashy and incompetent as her mother.  Why is that three year old in a playpen?  Debbie would ruin Liam, Carl is too young, Lip is too self involved.  Hopefully he'll go back to grandma's house. 

[Dee]

12 hours ago, whiporee said:

On the character consistency front, though, I didn't get Lip's hesitance to put the kid up for adoption. He was fine with it when Karen was pregnant and he thought it was his -- he even made a video for the kid to know who he was. I think there's a chance the writers forgot about that plot line -- it was a while ago, after all.

Lip was far from fine about Karen putting her baby up for adoption. If he'd had his way, she would've kept the kid and they would've raised it together.

However, he knew he had no say in the matter, so he did his best to persuade Karen to see that the baby went to the best home (within the existing circumstances); hence his making the tape for the baby for Jeff & Alana.

[WhosThatGirl]

7 hours ago, Lemons said:

That was bugging me the whole show!  Who is caring for Liam?  It's not enough Liam has no mother and a foul psychopath for a father but the sister who went to court to obtain guardianship for him walks about without saying goodbye.  Right.  

Debbie is as trashy and incompetent as her mother.  Why is that three year old in a playpen?  Debbie would ruin Liam, Carl is too young, Lip is too self involved.  Hopefully he'll go back to grandma's house. 

Yeah.. this is something they also never mention. Fiona is the legal guardian of the kids. Granted the rest are old enough to take care of themselves but technically she still should be taking care of Liam. But I guess that’s a moot point now. They hardly if ever mention things from past seasons.

1 hour ago, Dee said:

Lip was far from fine about Karen putting her baby up for adoption. If he'd had his way, she would've kept the kid and they would've raised it together.

However, he knew he had no say in the matter, so he did his best to persuade Karen to see that the baby went to the best home (within the existing circumstances); hence his making the tape for the baby for Jeff & Alana.

I was going to mention this but you beat me to it. Lip had no say in what Karen wanted to do and sadly I think history may repeat here with tami who as I said keeps dangling her pregnancy in front of him. I get that she has issues and things going on but she screams at him and refuses to let him make any decisions and drives off and then ends up at his work and wants to go out and get dinner?  The hell? Are we supposed to root for this relationship? Don’t get me wrong, I agreed with Tamis whole point that this shouldn’t force them into a marriage or a relationship if they don’t want that and I’m for a women’s right to choose as well but also if she’s planning to have the kid and Lip wants to raise it she can’t just be rude about it forever just because she can.

I honestly feel like that’s all she does. Lip tries to talk to her about it, she freaks out at him and yells and runs off and then.. comes back to talk to him? Sorry show.. this isn’t as interesting as you think it is. Or maybe they think that viewers find this cute or funny or something? I’m honestly not sure what they are going for with this. Does anyone? If so please tell me!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I thought that the envelope Fiona left on the refrigerator was going to have the deed to the house with Lip's name plus guardianship papers for Liam and Karl (and Debbie? I can't remember if she's 18 yet). Without that, Frank can still make legal decisions for the youngest kids which seems like something no one wants.

16 hours ago, taanja said:

The only thing is-- she can't just fly out of the country on a whim-- Hello!!! passport!

She mentioned this was the first time she has ever flown. This whole thing seemed like an act of spontaneity. One does not get a passport on the fly. So that tells me she is staying in the states -- maybe SoCal or AZ or Florida? Someplace warm.

I don't think that Fiona specifically mentioned she was going to leave the country, just that she wanted to go somewhere warm, possibly near the equator. There are lots of warm places she could go without a passport: Hawaii, California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Florida, Guam, Puerto Rico, American Samoa, the Mariana Islands, any of the U.S. Virgin Islands (St. Croix, St. Thomas, St. John).

[SuprSuprElevated]

16 hours ago, whiporee said:

Lip's expression reminded me of Ben Affleck's at the end of Good Will Hunting -- sort of sad, but glad she finally got out. 

Perfect analogy!

[DrSpaceman]

This was the most bland, formulaic, boring send off possible for Fiona. 

Its like they dragged out a generic script labeled "character send off" and filled in her name. 

So cliché, going to fly away on a plan to "somewhere". 

The only original part was her and Frank. 

I wish Lip's girlfriend would die in some accident so we didn't have to see her whiny ass again.  And so fate would prove her wrong about dying of breast cancer. 

I don't know if its the writing or acting, though I suspect a bit of both, I just don't know what they are going for in her character, but whatever it is, they missed it. 

[DrSpaceman]

On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 3:23 AM, Armchair Critic said:

Lip's girlfriend is the worst. The one scene I did like was Kevin telling Lip just to love his kid.

Again though, that is like the most cliche'd moment in TV, a father wondering if he is ready or will be a good father.  Its been done about a billion times. 

[misstwpherecool]

Frank is a shameless pos. I'm glad they're not glamorizing the character or drunks. I get why the hospital treated him the way they did. Also glad Fiona challenged Frank on 'helping' raise the family.

Cable or not trying to shock an audience with a bad pan of poop? Blatantly obvious is disgusting ads little. Nothing clever. This is why I can't watch an entire epi all the way through. One long epi of the Jack Ass movies.

I thought Carl's takedown by ex/girlfriend at Capt Bobs was the best part although predictable.

Also they really cranked the music this epi. Compensating for mediocrity?

[Chaos Theory]

On 3/12/2019 at 1:35 AM, Dee said:

Lip was far from fine about Karen putting her baby up for adoption. If he'd had his way, she would've kept the kid and they would've raised it together.

However, he knew he had no say in the matter, so he did his best to persuade Karen to see that the baby went to the best home (within the existing circumstances); hence his making the tape for the baby for Jeff & Alana.

Lip isn’t the same person he was then and the baby turned out not to be his anyway.  I would find it an interesting storyline if Lip’s GF wants to give the baby up but Lip tries to get custody with his history and the Gallagher name.   Can he even take care of a baby by himself?  Debbie got herself a job where she is making good money and Lip is still throwing away every real opportunity he has to play hood rat.  Is that even fair for a child?  

Edited March 13, 2019 by Chaos Theory

[TV Anonymous]

Did Fiona own all of that $100k? My understanding was that she took mortgage on the house to get the down payment to buy the apartment building. Did she earn that $100k cleanly or is she still leveraged? If she did not earn that $100k cleanly then she left the family with a time bomb, regardless that she spared them the extra $50k.

This matter with Lip and Tami seemed so one-sided. Did biological father not have any say in the fate of the child? Could he not sue her for keeping the baby and not to have abortion or adoption?

[LibertarianSlut]

1 hour ago, TV Anonymous said:

Did Fiona own all of that $100k? My understanding was that she took mortgage on the house to get the down payment to buy the apartment building. Did she earn that $100k cleanly or is she still leveraged? If she did not earn that $100k cleanly then she left the family with a time bomb, regardless that she spared them the extra $50k.

This matter with Lip and Tami seemed so one-sided. Did biological father not have any say in the fate of the child? Could he not sue her for keeping the baby and not to have abortion or adoption?

As far as I remember, Max wanted Fiona to have an opportunity to raise the $25k capital for the retirement home, so he asked her how much she needed to pay off the Gallagher mortgage, and he was going to buy the apartment building out from under Fiona for below-market price, and give her what she needed for the complete Gallagher mortgage so that should could retain her investment.  He wound up paying her $292k.   It was my understanding that Fiona then owned the Gallagher residence free and clear.  I remember being perplexed as to why Fiona wasn't happy at the end of the episode where this all happened--not many people own a home at 28, or whatever age Fiona is supposed to be.

As far as the laws go, it is my understanding that a man cannot legally prevent a woman from getting an abortion, even if he wants to raise the baby himself, but he can prevent her from putting it up for adoption if he is willing to take care of it.  I was confused too when Lip kept displaying dismay about the idea of Tami putting it up for adoption.  As the father, he could just take over as the sole custodial parent.  Is he one of those guys who is willing to forgo the law for the woman's choice?  I dunno.  If Lip wants this baby, though, he just needs to wait the 20 weeks or whatever until Tami is legally estopped from abortion, and then he is whistling Dixie.  Hey, maybe Mandy can come back from Gary and help him raise it!  Season ten.

[iMonrey]

It was nice to see Ian again but otherwise it felt fairly lackluster. I liked how supportive Lip and Ian were of her leaving, and I did think it was a nice moment between her and Frank. As sick as I am of Frank and all of his shenanigans, William H. Macy can still sell it. 

Quote

I was relived that Deb found the $50k, and not Frank,

Excellent point. How stupid was it to leave that thing on the fridge where anyone could find it??

Quote

Then this half of this season started airing and Fiona’s storyline was AWFUL. I still find it awful even if they tried to turn it around these last three episodes, they just seems to throw this ending together for her.

That was the same impression I got. It felt hastily put together rather than something that had been planned long-term. It showed. 

There are far too many loose ends, like ownership of the house and guardianship of Liam. 

[TV Anonymous]

46 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

As far as I remember, Max wanted Fiona to have an opportunity to raise the $25k capital for the retirement home, so he asked her how much she needed to pay off the Gallagher mortgage, and he was going to buy the apartment building out from under Fiona for below-market price, and give her what she needed for the complete Gallagher mortgage so that should could retain her investment.  He wound up paying her $292k.   It was my understanding that Fiona then owned the Gallagher residence free and clear.  I remember being perplexed as to why Fiona wasn't happy at the end of the episode where this all happened--not many people own a home at 28, or whatever age Fiona is supposed to be.

Guess I did not pay much of attention of the details in this show. So let me get this straight. Fiona got Max to pay off the home and now she netted $100k on top of that? All for several months to a year of owning the apartment building? So basically Max paid Fiona for her share of the partnership and now he bought her off that partnership?

Edited March 12, 2019 by TV Anonymous

[Lemons]

2 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

Did Fiona own all of that $100k? My understanding was that she took mortgage on the house to get the down payment to buy the apartment building. Did she earn that $100k cleanly or is she still leveraged? If she did not earn that $100k cleanly then she left the family with a time bomb, regardless that she spared them the extra $50k.

This matter with Lip and Tami seemed so one-sided. Did biological father not have any say in the fate of the child? Could he not sue her for keeping the baby and not to have abortion or adoption?

He has no rights until the baby is born then he would be notified of the mothers attempt to put up for adoption.  He has a job and was never accused of abuse or neglect so he would get custody.  If Fiona got custody of four siblings they couldn’t even try to act like Lip couldn’t get custody of his own child. 

[LibertarianSlut]

WRT the property--and don't feel bad, I had to watch it twice, and I still find myself getting tripped up on details--Fiona paid an initial investment of $75k into the retirement home, which she got from flipping the church IIRC.  She got the capital for the apartment building by flipping the laundromat in season 8 IIRC.  There was some contrived plot line where all the investors in the retirement home (there were 17 investment spots, but 13 takers IIRC) each had to pony up an additional $25k for a permit, or they would lose their investment (at least one financial person has weighed in that that's not the way this works, but I don't know from finance).  Fiona had no way of raising that money, so Max offered to pay off the Gallagher home and to buy the apartment building that Fiona owned at below market value in order to get Fiona access to the funds she needed for the next round of investing, and that's what wound up happening.  So I'm not sure she netted anything, seeing as how she put $100k into it in the first place.  You could look at it the way my husband does, and think Fiona got screwed, because she actually lost money because of inflation and forgoing interest on $100k, or you could look at it the way I do, which is that Fiona got a check for liquid funds that could have been tied up in the investment for years, and there is no guarantee that it would have netted a profit anyway.  It's a little bit of a bird in the that vs two in the bush thinking...

WRT to the adoption--if Lip would have to wait for notice of adoption, that is some cold-hearted shit, IMO.  He is the father.  He put as much DNA into this baby as Tami did.  Why not let Lip have an unofficial first bite at the apple without all this formal notice?  

Edited March 12, 2019 by LibertarianSlut
Details!

[TV Anonymous]

15 minutes ago, LibertarianSlut said:

WRT the property--and don't feel bad, I had to watch it twice, and I still find myself getting tripped up on details--Fiona paid an initial investment of $75k into the apartment building (perhaps she got this from flipping the laundromat) on the initial round of investment.  There was some contrived plot line where all the investors (there were 13 IIRC) each had to pony up an additional $25k or they would lose their investment (at least one financial person has weighed in that that's not the way this works, but I don't know from finance).  Fiona had no way of raising that money, so Max offered to pay off the Gallagher home and to buy the apartment building that Fiona owned at below market value in order to get Fiona access to  the funds she needed for the next round of investing, and that's what wound up happening.  So I'm not sure she netted anything, seeing as how she put $100k into it in the first place.  You could look at it the way my husband does, and think Fiona got screwed, because she actually lost money because of inflation, or you could look at it the way I do, which is that Fiona got a check for liquid funds that could have been tied up in the investment for years, and there is no guarantee that it would have netted a profit anyway.  It's a little bit of a bird in the that vs two in the bush thinking...

WRT to the adoption--if Lip would have to wait for notice of adoption, that is some cold-hearted shit, IMO.  He is the father.  He put as much DNA into this baby as Tami did.  Why not let Lip have an unofficial first bite at the apple without all this formal notice?  

Thank you for your explanation even if it makes me confused even more. My point is that Fiona basically started with nothing, $0 equity. Let us say that the house had some equity and some mortgage. And now she ended up with full equity of the house and $100k. How did she earn that much of money in such a short period of time? Even if she was successful in flipping and renting, she still needed capital.

[LibertarianSlut]

I *think* she got the initial capital by kind of defrauding a senile old lady out of the old lady's ownership interest in a laundromat in S8.  You're welcome, of course, but since I'm confusing you--hell, I'm confusing myself a little--I'll gladly let another poster take the reins.  Anyone?  Bueller?

So it was:

1.) Fiona is waitressing and has no money.  Any equity in the Gallagher home is a result of the long-dead Aunt Ginger's SSI/disability check

2.) Fiona defrauds old lady into selling her the laundromat

3.) Fiona, now with capital, purchases apartment building

4.) Fiona rehabs apartment building

5.) Fiona purchases church at below market value (perhaps with rent money from the apartment building?) rehabs it, and sells it for a profit

6.) Fiona uses apartment building and Gallagher family home as collateral to invest in retirement home

7.) whole thing goes tits-up when permit issue pushes back opening of retirement home, and Fiona is put in quandary of having to raise another $25k in order not to lose her initial $75k investment, which would cause her to default on both of her mortgages

8.) Max buys Fiona out of apartment building and pays Fiona enough money to pay the Gallagher mortgage completely, so she is back in as a player with the retirement home

9.) Final epi:  Max gives Fiona 100k to buy out her interest in the retirement hom

Someone jump in and correct me if I'm wrong

[whiporee]

I don't think the house is tied into the apartment at all. Fiona got the house when the cousin who beat them to the punch after they revealed aunt Ginger died, but I think the house has been a Fiona asset for a while. But if Fiona had a mortgage, it was a pretty small one.

Fiona got the laundromat lease from the old woman with money she got from ... maybe from her divorce from Gus? Or did she put a mortgage on the house? Regardless it was very small. I don't remember.  Maybe she used Monica's meth money even though she said she wasn't going to. But she got that lease pretty cheap. Then Sharon Lawrence bought her out of that lease, and she got a smallish mortgage for the apartment. In order to invest in the senior center, Fiona took out a second mortgage of 100K on the apartment, which brought her total debt on the building to the 282K, but that maxed her out. The church is in there somewhere. Regardless, I don't think the house is tied into any mortgage Fiona had on the apartments or the senior investment. When the demand for the extra 25K showed up, Fiona couldn't pay it so Max offered to buy the building for what she owed on it. That left her 100K as an asset in the senior center, but it was unencumbered. 

So when Max bought her out, that money was free and clear. The house should be in her name, but there's no mortgage on it. They'd still have taxes to pay and all that, but I don't think there's still a note due on the family homestead. 

Edited March 12, 2019 by whiporee