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ElectricBoogaloo

S15.E15: We Didn't Start the Fire

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When Jackson throws a party to celebrate Catherine’s surgery and those who worked to save her, literally nothing goes as planned. Meanwhile, Helen pays Alex and Jo a surprise visit.

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Original Canadian air date: 2/27/19
Original U.S. air date: 2/28/19

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So...after all that.....Owen STILL gets to keep Leo AND he has a daughter on the way? Well, at least him and Amelia got to argue some stuff out but I hope she still leaves like she was planning to. Owen's a fucking jackass. His attitude is so self-righteous, as if he's the only one hurting. 

Good news to anti-Owen fans: Koracick gets to punch him, although under terrible circumstances. Owen probably shouldn't judge someone he doesn't know.

The Catherine/Bailey scenes were actually....not bad? I mean, I had to suffer through Owen's shit all episode, and then also Maggie complaining about her bitch classmate's article or whatnot, so Catherine/Bailey were a walk in the park. 

Meredith/Deluca? Still a big fat meh. I still can only hope that them together is ONLY for a fun short-term romance and nothing serious. Them making out in Jackson's guest bedroom was all kinds of awkward. Hint: you people are not teenagers anymore. You can still have fun and not be so immature. Their dialogue was also really awkward and somewhat childish at times. 

Also, Meredith telling Alex didn't quite work for me. Why? Because of Meredith/Alex comparing their things with Deluca and Jo, with Meredith quipping "You put MY resident in the hospital!" as if she wasn't encouraging Alex that entire time, blaming Deluca, and as if she didn't bitch out at Deluca to forgive Alex when it happened. I just rewatched that particular clip and it's not ingrained in my mind that, at one point, Meredith did threaten Deluca's career for Alex. Yeah....very awkward to see where they are now and how Meredith can throw that "you beat my resident" line out when she was completely complicit. 

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I’m sorry but Meredith and Deluca are still not doing it for me. There’s just no chemistry there and it seems so forced. I’m starting to FF a lot of their lame scenes. 

So Delucas dad showing up is this big thing? I’m supposed to be intrigued? Who cares. I know they said something about him before being bad but I don’t care about Deluca his sister or the dad. It’s just all so lame.

I laughed when Koracik punched Owen.  Him and Teddy are another lame couple tho.

Get a bigger place Alex jeez.

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The whole fire payoff was so lame.   They start with everyone outside, go back in time, drop all those stupid hints and then it is just a little smoke?

I’ve always had a soft spot for Owen, but no more.   His “I don’t want that man around my child”,,,, dude, you are lucky you are around your kid.   Teddy didn’t have to disrupt her life and move to Seattle to make it easier for you.    Trust that she wouldn’t bring someone toxic into her kid’s life.  

More whining from Maggie.    MerLucca....they tried to be cute.....and now we get the payoff from DeLucca talking about dear old dad a few episodes ago with dear old dad arriving.   

Edited by DEL901
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I didn't realise until reflecting on the episode that three different men decided that Tom Koracick was suddenly some abuser toward women. First, with Owen's whole jealousy angle with Teddy dating him and deciding that Tom was using Teddy somehow. But also with Jackson and Richard complaining about Koracick. I think Jackson made a quip about how Tom took advantage of April last season...despite the fact that we know he didn't and that Koracick was the one to start helping her out of her crisis last season. But also Richard saying that Tom couldn't be trusted because....why? Because he may be a little bit of a womanizer toward the women? 

It's funny because, looking at Koracick as a person, he does treat the women way better than any of the men, so I'd say that the men are insecure and jealous of Koracick. We also know his tragic backstory so we know why he tends to act the way that he does but most of the other characters don't, so it is interesting to see who has what information. Speaking of....did Teddy actually tell Owen that Koracick is a father? So that must mean that Koracick told her about his kid.

I will say, I did get a chuckle out of Alex's excitement about there being a real fire, because that means that his mom isn't having a psychotic break (at least at that moment).

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While I totally agree with what Meredith said to Amelia about how Teddy has always been and will always be part of Owen's life, there is a big difference between your husband having a best friend (which you have to accept) and your husband being in love with his best friend (which you should not accept) - and Amelia specifically said that she thinks Owen is still in love with Teddy!

Ugh, Maggie. Teddy was just trying to make conversation with her and Maggie had to continue to be a drama queen about that stupid article and then run off in a huff.

I also felt bad for Alex's mom. Alex and Jo left her to sit by herself at a party where she knows no one but them so that they can whisper in a panic that she might be having a psychotic break because... she came to visit? And for the record, Alex's mom should get an award for smelling the burning plastic before anyone else.

I fully support Katherine telling Bailey to spend some of her butt money. I'm not saying she should go crazy burning her money but Bailey makes enough money (even without the extra money from that thing) that she can afford to splurge on an $800 blender. No, she shouldn't do that on a daily basis, but it's okay to celebrate your success by spending some of that money. Even if you completely disregard her extra income from the sex toy she patented, she makes enough money as a doctor that she can afford to buy something like a fancy blender. That's not going to be the difference between paying her bills and being out on the street. Again, I'm not saying she needs to start buying all kinds of stuff, but I was totally for Katherine telling her it was okay to enjoy some of that money now. Yes, you should be fiscally responsible and plan ahead for the future but damn, TREAT YOSELF!

Ugh, I hated the Anti-Koracik Club. Jackson, Richard, and Owen are just petty and jealous. I rolled my eyes when Jackson said that Koracik took advantage of April when she was vulnerable. No, Jackson, SHE WANTED TO FUCK HIM AND SHE DID. THE END. Same goes for every woman on this show who we know has slept with him. None of them were coerced and none of them had anything but nice things to say about him afterward. None of them cried about how he had taken advantage of them, abused them, been mean to them, manipulated them, etc.

The fact that Owen had the nerve to bitch about how he didn't like Koracik with Teddy and he's like a dog marking his territory and "who hits on a pregnant woman?" just reminded me what a hypocrite he is. But when he told Amelia to stop being insecure about Teddy, I was like are you serious? It's okay for you to be jealous of Koracik who she's been dating for a few months but it's not okay for Amelia to be concerned about your BFF who you slept with and got pregnant? Oh, okay.

I was glad that Teddy and Koracik both stood up to Owen's attempts at bullying them. She is allowed to go on vacation if she wants to. Just because Owen is the father of her baby doesn't mean that he gets to tell her who she can date or where she can go. Seriously, STFU.

I hate that he ended up getting Leo back. Ugh.

I laughed when Koracik punched Owen and then I laughed again when Koracik said that it was a million dollar hand.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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20 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

While I totally agree with what Meredith said to Amelia about how Teddy has always been and will always be part of Owen's life, there is a big difference between your husband having a best friend (which you have to accept) and your husband being in love with his best friend (which you should not accept) - and Amelia specifically said that she thinks Owen is still in love with Teddy!

Yeah, does Meredith not think that Owen having Teddy's baby is something that Amelia should just be ok with? I'd think it would be natural for a little jealousy to arise. It's obviously not a normal best friend situation.

22 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 Ugh, Maggie. Teddy was just trying to make conversation with her and Maggie had to continue to be a drama queen about that stupid article and then run off in a huff.

I totally related to not just Teddy, but Tom throughout the entire episode. Fellow introverts, unite! 

22 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 I also felt bad for Alex's mom. Alex and Jo left her to sit by herself at a party where she knows no one but them so that they can whisper in a panic that she might be having a psychotic break because... she came to visit? And for the record, Alex's mom should get an award for smelling the burning plastic before anyone else.

I think, in terms of this, Alex is used to seeing his mom in some sort of psychotic break whenever she used to visit him, so I totally empathise with him worrying about it happening again. I think he told Jo in this episode that it's a pattern with her and that he couldn't not dismiss the possibility. Plus, they left her in sight range so that they wouldn't lose her again. I mean, his mom WAS acting a little erratic from the last episode we met her in. Bringing all those scarves (I think) did trick me into thinking that she might be in a psychotic break. 

25 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Ugh, I hated the Anti-Koracik Club. Jackson, Richard, and Owen are just petty and jealous. I rolled my eyes when Jackson said that Koracik advantage of April when she was vulnerable. No, Jackson, SHE WANTED TO FUCK HIM AND SHE DID. THE END. Same goes for every woman on this show who we know has slept with him. None of them were coerced and none of them had anything but nice things to say about him afterward. None of them cried about how he had taken advantage of them, abused them, been mean to them, manipulated them, etc.

Yeah, and we also know that Koracick was not being manipulative in any way (similar to how we know he isn't being manipulative toward Teddy now). I still stand by my opinion that the men are jealous and insecure because Koracick gets along with the women better and actually treats them fairly well. Those men, particularly Owen and Jackson, could only dream of them being half the man Tom Koracick is.

My main worry, though, is if Krista is planning to make Koracick into a bad guy here. Maybe not, but after getting forced with Jaggie as endgame, Merluca as possible endgame, and Contacts/HAOG as their token male gay couple, anything's possible. Luckily, I have a little bit more confidence that we're actually supposed to be on Koracick's side here. Having Owen's disgusting comment about Koracick not being allowed near his child because he thinks he's not father material (followed by Koracick punching him out) makes me feel like we're PROBABLY not heading down the Koracick as a bad guy route.

So, yeah, I didn't like the idea of Teddy/Koracick a few episodes ago but now I'm all in. 

Seriously, I'm hoping Amelia leaves Owen. She really deserves better. She's become a better character post-tumor and I'm fully rooting for her happiness. Her being with Owen isn't going to make her happy. He's only interested in himself and a kid. That's it; he treats all of his wives horribly. He doesn't deserve to have anyone after this. He probably should remain a single father, co-parenting with Teddy and taking care of Leo, since I guess Leo will now be Owen's. I hate that the guy now gets two kids, but if that scratches his ten+ year itch, then go for it, dude. Maybe it'll make him less miserable and less pissy and violent.

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Initially I wasn't on board with Teddy and Koracik, but now I'm all for it just because I know that Owen hates it.

Hey, if Owen gets to be petty, so do I.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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Ugh with the Anti Koracick club.  Richard is just jealous because Tom had a relationship with Catherine before Richard did and he's jealous.  Jackson wasn't with April when she had her fling either.  And both woman were adults who could sleep without whoever they wanted to.

As for Owen, there are no words... he doesn't have a claim on Teddy and it is none of his business who she dates as long as they guy isn't a child abuser.

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I gotta say, that was prettty lame for a mile stone episode.

Until now I was pretty indifferent about Maggie, but I might have to start to actively dislike her. What is up with her constant whining? They're really overdoing it with her annoying and immature behaviour at this point. I get that she's upset about that bully and her article, but why does she have to bring that to a freaking party and annoy everyone with it? I get holding grudges against school bullies, but that's between me and myself and I certainly wouldn't whine to other people about it, not even close ones. I guess the writing for Maggie is supposed to be sympathetic, but all I thought was, "Shut up, Maggie."

Owen was even worse. Are we still supposed to like him, root for him, feel for him? Cause as far as I'm concerned they've completely ruined his character. I might actually hate him at this point. He's become so insufferable. The whole episode he was a complete douchebag. From the way he treated Amelia, to the way he thought he had any right at all to intervene in Teddy's love life to the way he verbally attacked Koracik. He had that punch coming and I cheered for Koracik when he did it. I hope Amelia dumps his sorry ass. I'm still annoyed that she is everywhere and gets so much focus, because the writers play favourites, but as a character she's fine and she certainly deserves better than Owen.

Still not feeling the Meredith/DeLuca thing. Still wish it would just stop. But now that Daddy DeLuca turned up we can be sure it won't end anytime soon.

I'm glad Alex finally has a storyline now that his mom turned up, but the way they introduced it makes me very wary. I'm glad that Helen seems to be fine and that her schizophrenia isn't really back, but it bothered me greatly that, by the end of the episode, we still had no clue or direction where this story would go. For all I know it's really just a regular visit and next episode Helen will go sightseeing or shopping with Jo, while Alex does some doctoring at the clinic. I wouldn't put it past the writers to give Alex a non-storyline.

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So a show that just passed the milestone for longest running medical show-had no medicine in it! 😆

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Jesus this episode was AWFUL

Also did Linc fall down an elevator shaft I mean okay no to him and Meredith but where is he?

Amelia you don’t pick the night Owen loses his foster child for this discussion and expect him to be up for it.  Amelia has no ability to wait or time anything. It’s not like her concerns aren’t valid but time and a place

Why was Alex wearing Chuck Bass’ scarf indoors? His whole storyline with his mom was weird and out of nowhere 

It’s like there are all these episodes happening off camera and time jumps that we don’t see

Maggie patients get to write articles it’s their experience too, stop whining 

Did we skip like 7 episodes with Meredith and Deluca 

and that lame fight 

Koracik was the MVP 

I will say this I get what Catherine is saying she still has cancer so she doesn’t feel like celebrating 

1 star episode just awful

Edited by dmc
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OK, what the hell was Maggie whining about the entire time? That article sounded like a fluff piece written for some women's magazine, so how could it possibly stop a serious medical journal from being interested in and writing about the actual surgical procedure? 

A party turning into a complete trainwreck is such a tired trope. I did appreciate the irony of an actually mentally ill person acting like the most rational individual there, though. I'm not sure it was intentional. Still, I call BS on Alex's mom being there in the first place. Jo knows the woman's history and she didn't find it odd that a) Alex never told her she was coming and b) he wanted to take her to a party full of complete strangers? Like, seriously? Yeah, yeah, she couldn't reach him on the phone (another lame cliche), but there were dozens of people there she could have called that could have located him, so she could check with him what was going on. It was so far-fetched. Also, I get that Alex was stunned to see her, but all that time it never occurred to him to ask her why she came? 

I enjoyed Bailey's interaction with Catherine until the blender nonsense came up. I don't know what's worse - Bailey getting so excited about a blender of all things, or that she with her surgeon salary and patent money was too cheap to buy one. Was that supposed to be some moment of growth for her?

Still, I found the episode mostly tolerable (Owen getting punched in the face is definitely one of the highlights of the season!) until the last 5 minutes ruined EVERYTHING. Damn it, I was cheering so hard for Amelia to finally break free from Owen and she was juuuuust about getting there, and then the stupid NotBetty returns to hand Leo back to them, and of course they're going to stay together now. And I've already lost all the interest I've ever had in Andrew DeLuca, so words cannot express just how much I DON'T CARE about Daddy DeLuca. 

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8 minutes ago, dmc said:

Also did Linc fall down an elevator shaft I mean okay no to him and Meredith but where is he?

Somebody's gotta actually be working at the hospital, right?

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Just now, ams1001 said:

Somebody's gotta actually be working at the hospital, right?

Lol he’s handing all the surgeries and the clinic 

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Did they have enough open candles on low tables with people milling around all over the place? I mean, I know they were going for a dramatic foreshadowing thing (not sure if that's the right word when we started out knowing there was a fire of some sort) but jesus. How stupid are you? 

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1 minute ago, ams1001 said:

Did they have enough open candles on low tables with people milling around all over the place? I mean, I know they were going for a dramatic foreshadowing thing (not sure if that's the right word when we started out knowing there was a fire of some sort) but jesus. How stupid are you? 

I knew when Alex’s mom said there was something burning that there was a fire.  Mental health problems doesn’t mean you can’t smell.  At least check it out

Edited by dmc
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2 minutes ago, dmc said:

I knew when Alex’s mom said there was something burning that there was a fire.  Mental health problems doesn’t mean you can’t smell.  At least check it out

That whole thing was just dumb from Helm's first mention of "Mrs. Karev." 

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1 minute ago, ams1001 said:

That whole thing was just dumb from Helm's first mention of "Mrs. Karev." 

Agreed!!!

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I’ll just say that for such a big milestone and a record breaking episode, I expected something VERY different.

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This was okay but not great. I liked Katherine and Bailey together. 

I really wish that Brittany would have asked only Amelia to adopt Leo. I think she would have thrived as a single mother and she wouldn’t be tied to Owen. 

I was waiting all episode to see Meredith introduced to Alex’s mom. I wish she could have also met Bailey and Webber on screen. 

Edited by Stacey1014
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4 minutes ago, doLLish said:

I’ll just say that for such a big milestone and a record breaking episode, I expected something VERY different.

We’re you expecting it to actually be good? This episode is the reason why shows should end sooner 

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The best thing about this ep was Maggie's green outfit, which I loved. 

I was actually hoping it that was DeLuca's girlfriend who went to Switzerland who was the one getting out of the car with his sister.  Throw a monkey wrench into the relationship with Meredith and have a love triangle.  On the other hand, he's such a horndog now that he's not even worth fighting over. 

The rest was too much stupid crap to even comment on.

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Man, Daddy DeLuca couldn't have been more stereotypical. Maybe he wants to groom Andrew as the next don.

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9 minutes ago, dmc said:

We’re you expecting it to actually be good? This episode is the reason why shows should end sooner 

I was! Silly me. And you’re right.

There are so many ways this episode could have gone and all of them were better than this.

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3 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

The best thing about this ep was Maggie's green outfit, which I loved. 

I was actually hoping it that was DeLuca's girlfriend who went to Switzerland who was the one getting out of the car with his sister.  Throw a monkey wrench into the relationship with Meredith and have a love triangle.  On the other hand, he's such a horndog now that he's not even worth fighting over. 

The rest was too much stupid crap to even comment on.

Omg same I thought it was his ex too 

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4 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

The best thing about this ep was Maggie's green outfit, which I loved. 

I am cracking up because I texted exactly this to my friend, word for word 😂

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Oh, and not only did Bokhee speak again, we saw her in clothes. I think the only other time that's happened is at Alex's wedding.

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Just now, doLLish said:

I was! Silly me. And you’re right.

There are so many ways this episode could have gone and all of them were better than this.

They gave it all this build up and I was like uhhh is that it 

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Just now, jschoolgirl said:

Oh, and not only did Bokhee speak again, we saw her in clothes. I think the only other time that's happened is at Alex's wedding.

It was so nice to see. 

I would love an episode that’s a tribute to Bohkee, everything through her eyes from her point of view over the years. I honestly can’t belive that episode hasn’t happened yet.

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1 minute ago, doLLish said:

It was so nice to see. 

I would love an episode that’s a tribute to Bohkee, everything through her eyes from her point of view over the years. I honestly can’t belive that episode hasn’t happened yet.

It makes me wonder if something is going to happen to her. There's gotta be a reason they're showing her in these ways after all of these years.

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Just now, jschoolgirl said:

It makes me wonder if something is going to happen to her. There's gotta be a reason they're showing her in these ways after all of these years.

I can totally see it. Something to keep an eye on going forward for sure. 

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I can't believe people who were so adamant about raising their grandchild, gave him back.   That was such a nothing episode, except for Owen getting punched out.    

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10 minutes ago, dmc said:

They gave it all this build up and I was like uhhh is that it 

Well, in a way it is kinda hilarious that it was the record-breaking, much anticipated (I suppose?) episode, and yet the moral of the story was "Life is too short, so go ahead and buy the blender of your dreams!" 

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1 minute ago, Joana said:

Well, in a way it is kinda hilarious that it was the record-breaking, much anticipated (I suppose?) episode, and yet the moral of the story was "Life is too short, so go ahead and buy the blender of your dreams!" 

Lol true 

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All these couples are boring ...... 

Edited by Inerttt · Reason: Spelling is important
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2 minutes ago, Inerttt said:

All this couples are boring ...... 

Because they are all bad pairings except maybe Teddy and Koracik...but his charisma is holding up that relationship 

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Just now, dmc said:

Because they are all bad pairings except maybe Teddy and Koracik...but his charisma is holding up that relationship 

His charisma would hold up any relationship. I love Greg German. Grey’s anatomy doesn’t deserve him.

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Just now, moonorchid said:

His charisma would hold up any relationship. I love Greg German. Grey’s anatomy doesn’t deserve him.

Agreed he was literally the highlight of this episode 

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3 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I can't believe people who were so adamant about raising their grandchild, gave him back.   That was such a nothing episode, except for Owen getting punched out.    

I can. 

They were so overwhelmed with relief that Brittany was found and safe and going to survive that they just didn't think ahead beyond 'Leo's our grandson, he's coming home with us'. And then caring for Brittany post surgery (major surgery!) and into pretty intense recovery for her addiction issues turned out to be A Lot. Not to mention they probably didn't want to be the assholes who made their daughter sign away her son. I think they handled it pretty well. Allowing Owen to adopt Leo was clearly *Brittany's* decision, as it should be. She's 16, she has major issues of her own and she's not ready to be a parent. Her parents are there for her if she wants to raise Leo but I've never gotten the vibe that she was comfortable being a mother. Have we ever seen her hold Leo or care for him?

Plus, unless Brittany's rights to her son were completely terminated she is his mother legally and the only who actually gets to make the adoption choice. Even if she is a minor.

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3 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

I can. 

They were so overwhelmed with relief that Brittany was found and safe and going to survive that they just didn't think ahead beyond 'Leo's our grandson, he's coming home with us'. And then caring for Brittany post surgery (major surgery!) and into pretty intense recovery for her addiction issues turned out to be A Lot. Not to mention they probably didn't want to be the assholes who made their daughter sign away her son. I think they handled it pretty well. Allowing Owen to adopt Leo was clearly *Brittany's* decision, as it should be. She's 16, she has major issues of her own and she's not ready to be a parent. Her parents are there for her if she wants to raise Leo but I've never gotten the vibe that she was comfortable being a mother. Have we ever seen her hold Leo or care for him?

Plus, unless Brittany's rights to her son were completely terminated she is his mother legally and the only who actually gets to make the adoption choice. Even if she is a minor.

And they can probably work something out with Owen and still get to be his grandparents. If Owen doesn't continue to be a jackass about it, at least.

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I feel like the writers are trying to rewrite history with Owen and Teddy. Since when has Owen always been in love with Teddy? Wasn’t that squashed at the end of season 6?

Maybe I need to do a re-watch again. Maybe I am not remembering something......

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Mark did something similar with his daughters son. To the effect of he chose to be a parent to his daughter rather than a grandfather to his grandson, especially when good parents wanted him. 

Brittneys parents have to put brittney first, and Owen is a lot of things but he loves Leo and will do right by him. It’s a hard decision but easier to make when you know where leo is going. 

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9 minutes ago, Inerttt said:

I feel like the writers are trying to rewrite history with Owen and Teddy. Since when has Owen always been in love with Teddy? Wasn’t that squashed at the end of season 6?

Maybe I need to do a re-watch again. Maybe I am not remembering something......

Owen has never been in love with Teddy.  Teddy has always been in love with Owen.  Teddy fell in love with Owen in the war zone when he was with his first wife.  Then he calls her to Seattle grace as a present for his new girlfriend Christina.  She comes because she still loves Owen But he blows her off and marries Christina.  Then she meets that patient and falls in love with him then they get married then he developed another tumor and he dies in surgery.  She gets this great job offer and leaves.  Then the moment him and Amelia have problems He runs out to Germany and sleeps with her.  She finds out he’s only there because His relationship issues and kicks him out.  Then she finds out she’s pregnant comes back to Seattle and he’s with Amelia again

She’s like his back up.  He never chooses her first.  

Edited by dmc
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9 minutes ago, Inerttt said:

I feel like the writers are trying to rewrite history with Owen and Teddy. Since when has Owen always been in love with Teddy? Wasn’t that squashed at the end of season 6?

Maybe I need to do a re-watch again. Maybe I am not remembering something......

Amelia has always been strangely insistent that Owen is in love with Teddy. How she reached that conclusion I'm not sure, since I think it was pretty much established that she barely knew (of) her before Owen's sister reappeared, but there you go. 

Anyway, if they were ever going to be the endgame, that ship has sailed after their big fallout in Germany. I'm very much convinced now that Teddy is going to be Koracick (which I approve of, they're good together, so far at least) and that Owen and Amelia will stay together. Which, booooo. Amelia deserves better. And I've said it before, but for a show that has absolutely no problem splitting up actually popular couples, they're bizarrely fixated on Owen's and Amelia's gigantic dysfunctional mess of a relationship.

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1 hour ago, dmc said:

I knew when Alex’s mom said there was something burning that there was a fire.  Mental health problems doesn’t mean you can’t smell.  At least check it out

But apparently Alex can't smell either, when he is right NEXT TO HER! How about how the fact that Helm tells Alex Mrs. Karev is here. Doesn't say: "Dr. Karev, there is a woman here who says she is your mother." Then she is just as dumb to think that Alex's mom is a doctor when you could clear see he was talking about Jo.

 I was very happy for Richard to tell Maggie to get over things. To stop always thinking everyone is out to kick the little kid out of the game and to start standing up for herself and stop acting like she is 10. GOD! Way over due! But yes, for such a landmark episode, this was just dumb and bad. 

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