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S01.E09: Road to the Finals/ S01.E10: The Final Mask is Lifted

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Thanks MsJamie. When I think of redemption, I'm thinking of (for instance) the half of Milli Vanilli that's still with us, KWIM?

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This describes some of the problems:

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But sometime after Jay-Z’s 2009 hit “D.O.A. (Death of Auto-Tune)” and T-Pain’s hilarious appearance on “I’m on a Boat” by comedian Andy Samberg and his band The Lonely Island, T-Pain started to become the joke. The number of musicians and critics who condemned Auto-Tune as a crutch was hitting a critical mass. And many of them were calling T-Pain a one-trick pony who hid behind Auto-Tune to make up for his own shortcomings as an artist.

From ABC News

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29 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

MsTree  I think they all could have redemption or sob stories if they chose to.  The auto tune was a choice he made on his own.

Agree. I just hope they don't turn this show into a bunch of sob stories for the win (like DWTS).  I'd like to see the show keep participation fun & light.

That said, IF we have to endure sob story redemption, I suppose having it relate to singing makes total sense.

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3 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

MsTree  I think they all could have redemption or sob stories if they chose to.  The auto tune was a choice he made on his own.

I disagree with this statement. The other professional singers on this show still have a career and/or are very well respected in their field. T-Pain was ostracized (from what it sounds like- I only know what was posted here and what he said) and shut out from the industry. He has the actual singing chops and no one would take him seriously. It’s not like he was the ONLY one to use auto tune, but since he wasn’t a pop singer he was essentially shunned. I think he did a wonderful job showcasing his voice and showing that he’s not ready to give up. 

And here i am I am defending someone I didn’t even really know existed before this show lol. 

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1 hour ago, Whimsy said:

I disagree with this statement. The other professional singers on this show still have a career and/or are very well respected in their field. T-Pain was ostracized (from what it sounds like- I only know what was posted here and what he said) and shut out from the industry. He has the actual singing chops and no one would take him seriously. It’s not like he was the ONLY one to use auto tune, but since he wasn’t a pop singer he was essentially shunned. I think he did a wonderful job showcasing his voice and showing that he’s not ready to give up. 

And here i am I am defending someone I didn’t even really know existed before this show lol. 

I think the issue may have more to do with him demanding credit (Nov 2008) from other artists who used Auto Tune.  But I don't really know him.  I only know what I read on his wikipedia page after seeing his name suggested as Monster on here.

Count me as one who knew he would win from the start with the way the judges adored him.  But I can't get past the fact that there is no stage anywhere where Gladys Knight isn't the best! Osmond had good stage presence and better all around entertainer.  But Knight's voice and pedigree...

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11 hours ago, Eolivet said:

I don't understand how the show was fixed. Monster sang, danced and performed every week. He was a versatile performer with impeccable song choices who engaged with the audience. He seemed to be the only one who understood this was a popularity contest, where vocals were only part of the performance.

There's a list as long as my arm of "the best singers" on Idol who didn't win. I don't think the best pure vocalist losing is indicative of a fixed show. As in all reality TV, it's about the "progression."

I was Team Monster from episode 1, but I don't think it's so preposterous he won. It's not like Tori Spelling won or anything.

I agree that Monster did well and I think he deserved to beat Donny Osmond.  I'll give that he's a better performer than Gladys Knight but not a better singer.  The reason why I think it was fixed was because from the beginning, it seemed like the show was pushing the Monster.  They gave him the best costume to the point where the judges (particularly Jenny and Nicole) loved him and were invested in his storyline of "redemption and growth".  He got great songs to sing.  Post-production, it was telegraphed from the start that he would win.  The show opened up with a clip of him, the show released only his performance in advance, etc.  Also, the way the judges vote counts for 50%, and that they don't release the voting tallies from the audience, makes it so easy for the judges to manipulate the results.  

I'd really like to know who the judges voted for.  It was obvious that Jenny and Nicole would be for Monster.  I thought Kenan no doubt for Miss Gladys.  Robin?  Either Monster or Bee.  No idea on Ken.  Who amongst them voted Peacock to skew the results so that Bee finished third?

10 hours ago, chabelisaywow said:

All of the spoilers were correct. So this show is a badly kept secret - where is the fun in that?

In fact, there were no spoilers at all.  We didn't hear any stories from the audience members who leaked the identities in advance.  What you call "spoilers" aren't spoilers... the clues were released on the show and then people googled and posted their thoughts.  Collectively, the viewers at home figured out all the identities.  But nobody who was involved with the show or was in the studio audience for the show spoiled anything.

8 hours ago, GreyBunny said:

Did the singers get much of a song choice?  The songs Donny and Gladys had didn't really do them any favors; Donny's was old and outdated, the second didn't showcase Gladys's voice as well as other selections have.  It's like the thumb was on the scale for Monster.

Totally agree.  As soon as Gladys came out with "I Can't Make You Love Me", I knew she was done.  The week before was "You Make Me Feel Like a Natural Woman" and before that was "What's Love Got to Do With It".  She completely killed those performances, but they weren't the showy, exciting performances like the others got.  I really wish she had gotten a more upbeat or current song to sing.  I could have seen her knocking a Beyonce song like "Irreplaceable" or a Celine song like "My Heart Will Go On" out of the park.  What about "No Tears Left to Cry"?  She did awesome on "Locked Out of Heaven".  She got a standing ovation from the audience but then finished third?

To me, there's no real explanation for why the show gave "Stay With Me" to T-Pain other than they really really wanted him to win.  That's the kind of big, soulful song that really elevates a singer above others.  If Gladys had gotten to sing this song she would have definitely won.  I'm pissed.  But in the end, Gladys Knight is a legend.  She wanted to do this show to introduce her music to a new generation of fans, and it worked, because I am one of those new fans.  Kudos to her.

Donny Osmond?  Ehh.  He's Ok but he just came across as so damn desperate.  That's not a good look.  Donny is a successful legendary performer in his own right, there's no reason why he "needed this so badly" as he kept saying.  He will have his show on Vegas until he dies.  Why act like he would die if he didn't win?

Edited by blackwing
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Gladys is a completely genuine and gracious individual.  I do think she should have won.

If Donny has been flying to Las Vegas after each show to perform, no wonder he wasn't at his best singing.

Edited by icemiser69
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6 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

No, not really. As mentioned before, his peers in the music industry were not impressed with his use of auto tune and mocked him and accused him of changing the music business and not in a good way.

They're not wrong. Auto Tune is not a redeemable offense. 

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36 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Post-production, it was telegraphed from the start that he would win.  The show opened up with a clip of him, the show released only his performance in advance, etc. 

Because it's a taped show, so he'd already won before the show started airing. I know I likened this show to Idol, but it's really more like Survivor, where you start with a winner and edit from there. They knew Monster won, so of course they go back and show him first. The judges had already voted for him, and so had the audience. Like Survivor, they're going to show a winner's progression.

I find the idea the show was fixed ludicrous because it wasn't live. Maybe song choice or costume could've played a role, but I think Monster caught on with the audience and judges last June or whenever it was taped, and the show had to edit it so we'd be invested in his win. But the idea that they started this show as a preconceived way -- last June, before we knew if it would be a flop or a hit -- to help relaunch T-Pain's career because he had an album coming out ... a year later? What if the show had flopped and was pulled off the air after three episodes? Then wouldn't it be sabotaging T-Pain's career relaunch?

If the show was live, I could see this much more easily. But a taped show has to edit to its predetermined conclusion. To me, it wasn't fixed in the same way that Survivor isn't fixed when the winners get glowing edits.

Edited by Eolivet
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Gladys’s voice knocked all the competition out of the water but that is not what this show is based on

So what exactly is the show based on? What are the criteria for winning? How much does audience vote count? I missed the last couple of episodes, but the judging criteria were always a little murky for me each week. 

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Congratulations to T-Pain.  It's a drawback to the concept that you can't award The Bee and the Peacock, whether you know who's in the costume or not.

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If he can sing like that...why is he a rapper?

I think because he wanted to.  Why he stayed in rap/with auto-tune when it was no longer doing him favors is an interesting question.

Fun fact:  T-Pain is from Tallahassee, where Jim Morrison also once lived (though their time there did not overlap.)

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14 minutes ago, marketdoctor said:

I think because he wanted to.  Why he stayed in rap/with auto-tune when it was no longer doing him favors is an interesting question.

A very interesting question..

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Dang, Gladys Knight is gorgeous no matter how old she is! I don't think it was fixed. Monster won because he had a cute costume and a redemption story. He was the perfect contestant for this show.

BTW I doubt Gladys is crying over losing when Jenny Dumbo McCarthy was one of the judges. LOL

Edited by boyznkatz
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I knew Monster would win thanks to the executive producer's comment about the judges never guessing the winner.  I'm still annoyed by that. 

All in all, it's been a fun show.

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1 hour ago, blackwing said:

Donny Osmond?  Ehh.  He's Ok but he just came across as so damn desperate.  That's not a good look.  Donny is a successful legendary performer in his own right, there's no reason why he "needed this so badly" as he kept saying.  He will have his show on Vegas until he dies.  Why act like he would die if he didn't win?

I think the desperation was supposed to be more "proud as a peacock"  ego thing more than "OMG I NEED THE WIN BAD" and simply didn't come off well.  He did say he signed up for fun.  I think he did DWTS more to challenge himself and to see if he could finish higher than Marie did.  

Bottom line: this show did solid numbers in the desired demographics.  And if this means Donny and Gladys gets recognised for their singing talents and gain younger fans and T Pain enjoys renewed success (it's no coincidence his new album started streaming yesterday), then the show did its job.  

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Part of me hopes that Jenny meant somebody other than Michael Vick but I'm thinking she may actually be that stupid.  Maybe she meant somebody other than Michael Vick and the name just came out wrong.  Or maybe her line of thinking was "hmmm he's black.  I don't know many black people who were once at the top and then got into trouble.  The only one I can think of is Michael Vick and his dogfighting scandal.  Is it him?  Could be.  I may be a pop culture guru but my knowledge doesn't extend to black people."  That whole sequence from her had a very "Book of Mormon" feel, where the lily white person is so out of her element that she just starts babbling stupid things.

I absolutely loved Kenan's comments to Gladys Knight that started out with "as the resident black judge..."  You could tell that he was so honoured to have been given the opportunity to be on the same show with her.  He seemed like he was about to cry.  It was so real and so genuine.  I really hope he gets offered a permanent judge spot next season.

Edited by blackwing
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2 hours ago, Commando Cody said:

They're not wrong. Auto Tune is not a redeemable offense. 

Future uses it.  He said A/T is just another tool.  Happy for Monster but Gladys is The Empress!

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I guess T-Pain must have really  been slammed for his use of auto tune. When his mask came off, my teenage son laughed and said, "Isn't he famous for using auto tune?" It's pretty ironic that he won a singing competition. He has a good voice, and it's nice that he got to showcase it.

He seems like a good guy, so I have no problems with his win. At least they didn't have any felons or racists on this show.

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This is a show I record, then I can watch an hour in 15-20 minutes by skipping the boring parts.  This time I skipped the entire first hour.  I'll probably watch the same way next time.  I do wish they would get rid of Jenny McCarthy and Ken What's-his-name, both of whom I find quite annoying.

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15 hours ago, Callaphera said:

I thought Jenny McCarthy said she was going to kill herself by impaling herself on Peacock's beak (hurr hurr) if it wasn't Neil Patrick Harris under there but I checked and she's still alive? Do I contact Fox for my refund? Is this, like, breach of contract or something? I'm disappointed. 

ROFLMAO!

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15 hours ago, Callaphera said:

I thought Jenny McCarthy said she was going to kill herself by impaling herself on Peacock's beak (hurr hurr) if it wasn't Neil Patrick Harris under there but I checked and she's still alive? Do I contact Fox for my refund? Is this, like, breach of contract or something? I'm disappointed. 

In all honesty, I would love to see Harris do it.  It's just the sort of quirky thing he would do "for fun". 

McCarthy is made an idiotic guess though.  I don't know anyone of my generation that had pictures of Doogie on their bedroom walls (one of the first clues).  And again, to the best of my knowledge, Harris wasn't on stage at 5 (another of the first clues).  Finally, if he was friends with Michael Jackson, it's not exactly common knowledge. 

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Totally blown away by T-Pain.  If he can sing like that...why is he a rapper?

So, I always thought T-Pain's auto tune was more his "schtick" - not an indication of talent level (ie like Zapp of the 70-80's).

There's a video of him singing in a library? - he is a great singer.

I was the one who posted about the spoilers - I was referring to all of the speculations posted here.

I guess the clues were too easy,

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Two things:

1. Were the judges told to make some stupid guesses that made no sense, just so everyone didn't call out the masked singers and get an expected result later? Michael Vick seems like a total stupid guess. 

2. Someone needs to tally how many times the judges said, "Look at him!" or "Look at her!" -- new drinking game? I don't think I've ever heard so many superfluous "judge" comments. 

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Just now, chabelisaywow said:

So, I always thought T-Pain's auto tune was more his "schtick" - not an indication of talent level (ie like Zapp of the 70-80's).

There's a video of him singing in a library? - he is a great singer.

I was the one who posted about the spoilers - I was referring to all of the speculations posted here.

I guess the clues were too easy,

Yes, the clues were sometimes too easy.  Bee said in her very first intro that you can call her the Empress.  Then at the end, she told the judges she'd been singing since the 1950s.  It had to be Gladys Knight.  She's the Empress of Soul.

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Well that was kind of underwhelming.  A bloated two hour show with only three new performances?  They could at least have had the singers do two songs in the second hour.  The whole show was just filler.  The songs were all really good but not the best.  It was obvious that Bee was Gladys, her voice is unmistakable.  I could see peacock being Donny Osmond but I still leaned toward NPH.  Wrong there.  I was saying Monster was Martin Lawrence for weeks, wrong again.  T-Pain?  Meh.  I was hoping for someone a little more well known.  But I'm not sorry he won, he certainly deserved it.

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5 hours ago, adhoc said:

So what exactly is the show based on? What are the criteria for winning? How much does audience vote count? I missed the last couple of episodes, but the judging criteria were always a little murky for me each week. 

According to an interview with the show runner the audience vote is 50%. I think the judging criteria being murky is part of what has led to the speculation that it is fixed. 

My opinion is despite there being a winner this was never really about a competition. There was no real criteria for winning because that was secondary. This show was all about the drama of the reveals and celebrities having an opportunity to have fun while revitalizing their careers. 

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Well Poop, I guess I am really old, I have no idea who T-Pain is....Miss Knight should have won for God's sake. I hate to admit it, but I have enjoyed this show except for the stupid judges. 

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This show is so much better when you watch it on YouTube. I watched all the performances, clues, and reveals in like 15 minutes. 

I'm fine with T-Pain winning, he has such a great sense of humor and his performances were the ones I looked forward to the most from week to week. It's only a title anyway, and it seems like everyone just did the show for fun, even though logically, Gladys should have won. Props to Donny for his work ethic, especially if he was doing two shows at once. I can barely get up in the morning sometimes lol. 

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I admit I haven't read all the responses, but I watched this on Hulu, and I was curious how the winner was chosen from the final 3. I don't recall seeing anything about that in the Hulu version. I know during the regular shows the audience voted and then the panel had the final say, but that didn't seem to be the case here.

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I was really happy with the results. I may get flogged for this, but I didn't think Gladys should win. To me that would have reeked of a fix. She's a goddess and a legend and an icon, no argument. I have mad respect for her all around. But she does not sound as good as she once did. If people didn't know right off who she was, I honestly wonder if she'd have made the top 3. I just didn't think she sounded that great in any of her performances if you separated her identity from her voice. I don't know how to say that without sounding like an asshole because it's certainly due to her age. Most singers don't sound as good at her age as they did in their younger days... 

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Heres my take on the show now thats it over.

A) Get rid of all the stupid judges with the exception of possibly robin. I swear that jenny is so god damn stupid that makes it so PAINSTAKINGLY ANNOYING to watch the show with her constant "will you just STFU" comments and guesses. I have to mute her every time she appears on the show just to be able to continue watching it after the 1st week. Every week she just gets dumber and dumber and shows the entire world that blonde airhead bimbos are still alive and well in america. She blurts out the most random and nondescript ridiculous names and things that its so scary to see thats considered her ah ha "light blub" moments. Im surprised she even remembers her own name TBH after seeing how her clueless brain actually functions this season. Yeah right, "pop culture guru" my ass! Just stick to posing nude for playboy jenny, because thats all you are really qualified for anyways. Meanwhile Nicole is no picnic either and can be just as equally annoying as jenny with her quips and brain dead flat line comments and guesses. Shes a close 2nd to jenny. Ken is funny but hes a total joke as well and knows nothing about anything. He is amusing from time to time and over acts and over reacts on every thing but that too gets really old really really quick

Maybe its just only me, but the so called " judges or detectives" annoyed the F*** outta me on every single episode, to the point that I just didnt want to continue to watch the show. So muting them was the only solution for me, so yeah maybe it was just me, IDK.

B) They need to be less specific with the clues as its not really a guessing game anymore when a singer tells you that they got 10 grammys. Seriously, what a stupid bonehead thing to say. All it takes is 1 minute to then google who has received 10 grammys and then all the unmasking premise and fun of the show is already over by that point. Clues need to be more generic and more non specific or else the whole point of the secret identity is pointless if they say something that immediately narrows it down to a specific person right away. I remember that dumb ass nick said that we have 4 time super bowl winners in the group. And when I heard that, im like are you for f***ing real? how stupid can you possibly be? do you know how long it takes to google 4 time super bowl winners online? Yeah like 1 minute you moron. so stop saying clues that ruin the whole guessing game premise of the show. so yeah nick a complete moron too.

C) The voting is too quick for my taste, as it seems that it only applies to the studio audience. Thats too small of a sample and the results might not be truly indicative of the public sentiment as a whole. Therefore they need to let the public vote as well for these singers like they do in most if not all other singing competitions.  

Anyways thats my take on the show. the singers did exceptional and I really enjoyed that part of the show but all the moronic "judges" and their constant blurting out of stupid random comments and guesses have got to go. Get new judges who can make that part enjoyable as well, not watch a brain dead blonde and brunette bimbo fumble thru their flat line thought process trying to impress the public with zero chance of hope or success.

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11 hours ago, blackwing said:

I absolutely loved Kenan's comments to Gladys Knight that started out with "as the resident black judge..."  You could tell that he was so honoured to have been given the opportunity to be on the same show with her.  He seemed like he was about to cry.  It was so real and so genuine.  I really hope he gets offered a permanent judge spot next season.

I agree.  I thought he was a great addition.  I would love to see him as a permanent judge next season.  

When I first heard about this show, I expected it to be awful.  I watched the first time mostly just to see how bad it would be, and ended up getting hooked.  So I enjoyed it for the most part, but the finale was really a letdown.  Not only was it much too long with way too much boring filler, but I'm pretty sure it would have been far more satisfying if I had ever heard of T-Pain.  

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6 hours ago, ScarletLetter said:

This show is so much better when you watch it on YouTube. I watched all the performances, clues, and reveals in like 15 minutes. 

Thanks for the tip!

1 hour ago, tobeannounced said:

I admit I haven't read all the responses, but I watched this on Hulu, and I was curious how the winner was chosen from the final 3. I don't recall seeing anything about that in the Hulu version. I know during the regular shows the audience voted and then the panel had the final say, but that didn't seem to be the case here.

I have watched on both live tv and Hulu and the show is exactly the same.  I do think we miss some of the action to fit into the allotted time.

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On 2/27/2019 at 10:08 PM, Eolivet said:

I don't understand how the show was fixed. Monster sang, danced and performed every week. He was a versatile performer with impeccable song choices who engaged with the audience. He seemed to be the only one who understood this was a popularity contest, where vocals were only part of the performance.

There's a list as long as my arm of "the best singers" on Idol who didn't win. I don't think the best pure vocalist losing is indicative of a fixed show. As in all reality TV, it's about the "progression."

I was Team Monster from episode 1, but I don't think it's so preposterous he won. It's not like Tori Spelling won or anything.

I agree. I never thought this show was about the best singer. I thought it was about who was the most fun to watch. That was clearly Monster to me.

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15 hours ago, blackwing said:

He seemed like he was about to cry.  It was so real and so genuine.

I'm pretty sure he did cry, though that might have been during her earlier (masked) performance. I just know that at one point the camera showed him and his eyes absolutely looked shiny and teary. 

Not that I blame him. I teared up at some point during her performance. But "I Can't Make You Love Me" pretty much always gets me.

3 hours ago, jumper sage said:

I have watched on both live tv and Hulu and the show is exactly the same.  I do think we miss some of the action to fit into the allotted time.

The show was taped last summer, so watching it "live" at 8 pm on Wednesday is the exact same experience as watching it on Hulu at 1 pm on Thursday. The finale show was one hour 23 minutes and some-odd seconds when I watched it on Hulu today. A show airing on network TV in a one-hour block of time is usually around 42 minutes of actual content and the rest commercials. No difference with Hulu.

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Just curious but too lazy to do the research. Does Fox have anything to do with the record company that is releasing T-Pain's new album? If so, the whole show could have been an elaborate marketing scheme.

That being said - I was not all that upset about T-Pain winning. I did enjoy his voice and performances. I just thought the Peacock and the Bee were much better vocally and the Peacock was absolutely better in presentation (performing). And if truth be told, I thought Rabbit and Lion were also better than Monster both vocally and performance-wise.

It was just a silly and fun show. I wish some of them had been a surprise when they revealed but for me, none were. And that took a little bit of the fun out of it. Will I watch next season - if there is one? Probably.

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1 hour ago, llewis823 said:

Just curious but too lazy to do the research. Does Fox have anything to do with the record company that is releasing T-Pain's new album? If so, the whole show could have been an elaborate marketing scheme.

Yes, this was just in a People article:  "While filming the show, T-Pain was also recording his album, which was released on the same day as the series finale. “It’s a super great album,” he said. “It’s No. 1 right now, No. 1 in the country and I feel great.”

I mean - maybe it was planned as release later on but it had to have been a consideration.  I don't have tons of beef with the Monster win.  I just wonder how much of it has to do with the costumes.  Like...oh, cute and cuddly Monster - so sweet!

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9 hours ago, jumper sage said:

I have watched on both live tv and Hulu and the show is exactly the same.  I do think we miss some of the action to fit into the allotted time.

Thanks for replying. I guess my question wasn't clear. Did they explain voting and how the final winner would be picked? I don't recall that coming up, and I thought maybe that was cut out of the Hulu version, but I could have been distracted for sure and missed it.

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On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 12:13 AM, Dani said:

The thing that i

The entire first hour was a waste of time. I am still waiting for them to explain all the Gladys Knight’s 10 Grammy’s.  

7 as Gladys, 3 with the Pips.

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16 hours ago, atlantaloves said:

Well Poop, I guess I am really old, I have no idea who T-Pain is....

I'm right there with you.  Any maybe since NONE of the judges thought it was T-Pain, they had no idea either.  LOL.

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It’s funny to me that T Pain’s horrible mistake was using auto tune, since it’s pretty much expected that most artists use it now. Now it’s a big deal when someone actually sings live with no backing track, etc.

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