S02.E10: By Means Which Have Never Yet Been Tried

[romantic idiot]

If TPTB didn't kill off Helena, then they weren't going to kill off Cosima. Typically, it's been a tv-thing to kill someone major off to show that a show is "real" and there are "stakes." Game of Thrones notwithstanding. I don't think a show actually has to have a a major death to be dramatic. Usually, it's jarring and mostly OOC because the character just does something rash that gets them killed. The show isn't bleak; it's more adventurous, and about identity. So I don't think a ton of character deaths works. One can't find out who they really are if they're dead. 

 

Duncan made sense; the guy was pretty defeatist since he left the house. Rachel I can go either way. She was slow-burn nuts going into the back end of the season and I don't see where she would go from this. 

This so much. Killing off Cosima would make them really dark and would not fit the tone at all, especially since they did not kill Helena off. 

Taking it at face value I see Cosima dying/white light scenario. She sees the woman she loves who will never leave her blah blah, that's more near death stuff. Then Kira heals her, not cures, but heals, as in, she gets her better enough to live for now. The other option is what? Cosima was sleeping and having a dream about Delphine and Kira happened to wake her up when the dream was getting all white lighty? That's even lamer than Kira having some kind of healing power, which is actually canon, at least as far as she can heal herself rapidly.

I think Kira does save Cosima - but metaphorically. Maybe Cosima was dreaming, maybe nearing death. Kira calls Cosima back to the real world, and then gives her the means to cure herself. It's just what Kira has been doing throughout - Kira is really invested in Cosima's survival, and it makes sense that Kira brought Cosima back from that perspective. IMO, Kira doesn't have to do the job literally. 

 

That's too All My Children for me. It was a ridiculous storyline then and it would be a ridiculous storyline now. I think Charlotte is exactly what they said: a later attempt (with what we already know is incomplete data from the loss in the fire) that only she survived out of 400 tries.

And Sarah's apparent guilt over having an abortion was her now knowing how rare it was that she was able to get pregnant, since all the other clones (save for Helena) are barren. I do wonder why Sarah went through with her pregnancy with Kira, since it was seemingly just as unplanned as the first one.

Agreed on both counts. 

 

I bet Project Castor bought Cal's drone technology and he has been hunting them ever since. He probably let Sarah pull one over on him because he'd seen images of one of the clones in another context during his search, and didn't want to lose his lead. Getting a kid out of the deal is just a bonus, probably. 

I'm not sold on Cal knowing about the clones, but I'd be okay with Cal having some relationship with Project Castor. Or just maybe the same people bought the clone technology. 

 

Good finale, I've just one major nit to pick.  The 'take away' scene with Helena and the aircraft thingy, it seriously looked like a grade school version of ET mixed with Star Wars and Star Trek.  If TPTB on this show can pull off the dance scene, along with too many other excellent clone-y shit throughout the season to mention, could they not have made that particular scene an iota believable?  I was watching this finale on my computer (as I've mentioned I am stranded on a lovely tropical island, one without BBC but WITH a nice wireless connection) with my youngest daughter.  When that star-trek-y scene came on she said 'WTF is THAT?  Is this supposed to be believable?  Did they just throw this in in the last minute and had no time to stage it to look even semi-realistic?'  Just our take.  As for Charlotte.....I get that she is a 'later' clone.  But why is her hair exactly like Rachel's was as a child.  Yes, they are clones.  But all the clones we've seen so far are individuals, with their own styles, especially when it comes to hair.  Is it significant that Charlotte as a child is basically Rachel as a child?  I mean, really.  My daughter's identical twin friends always looked different enough that we never had trouble telling which was twin A and which was twin B.  

Re: the child and the same hairstyle. They are both being brought up by, essentially, DYAD. Makes sense there would be some similarity between young Rachel and Charlotte. Plus it's a fairly common hairstyle, I think. 

On the CGI - I just think they blew the budget on the dance party to get anything else decent done. 

[bluebonnet]

 BUT Sarah Manning HAPPENS to be walking at the trains station at the EXACT time that Beth kills herself setting a whole bunch of things in motion and really what are the chances of that?  So maybe God or Destiny or SOMETHING is playing a part to try to offset DYAD and the Prolithians and the army etc etc because there really IS (in this universe) something other than science and chance influencing the universe.  Just a thought.

Well, they had to start the story from somewhere.  The clones were always going to start becoming self-aware and finding one another because that was what would help drive the story. I mean, three clones lived in close proximity to each other at some point.  One person (Vic) stumbled upon another clone by accident.  Something like that was bound to happen eventually and we must suspend disbelief that it hadn't already happened.  That's not to mention that Helena was off murdering clones in Europe and someone was bound to notice that murdered women were bearing striking resemblances to one another.  That doesn't suggest some fantastical force driving the clones together, but actual people doing it, whether intentionally or not.  

 

RE the issue of Sarah having had an abortion in her past and what potentially happened to that fetus, from this interview with the creators of the show, it seems like that was something that Tatiana improvised when they shot that scene.

 

So it seems that Sarah's past abortion is not likely to play into the future story arc - it's more a tribute to the creative character research that TM has done.

 

Full interview here: http://www.theloop.ca/tv_guide_canada_orphan-black_210/

 

Really interesting that the scene was nearly unscripted.  Still, it was always completely unbelievable that Sarah's past abortion would have anything to do with future story lines, other than to be this heavy burden Sarah feels.  It's not like clinics routinely keep embryonic cells on ice just in case some strange organization comes claiming one of their clones might have wondered through in the past.  

 

This might be a silly question, but why does it seem as though everyone accepts at face value that the vials of reddish liquid which Rachel was waving around & ultimately destroyed were actually Kira's bone marrow? Given the likely scientific value of the bone marrow (not just to Cosima, either), isn't it more logical that Rachel was using decoy vials to force Sarah's hand at a particularly stressful moment, and that the real bone marrow was safe elsewhere?

Not a silly question.  For me, it seems most likely that it was Kira's real marrow simply due to Rachel's circumstances and state of mind at the time.  She thought she had Kira in her clutches for the long haul and could thus harvest her marrow again in six weeks (and again and again).  She had also just witnessed her father kill himself rather than give her what she wanted.  She was a complete wreck.  Even her hair was out of place.  I think she truly thought that Sarah had the cypher and that Sarah would be so loyal to Cosima that she'd give it up so she wouldn't have needed to really follow through on the threat.  It was just a total breaking moment for her.  I'm not sure I believe she destroyed all of the marrow because she only had three in her hand and I could have sworn there were four vials.  At that point, though, other than her mental state and losing control, she's also just rubbing it in Sarah's face that while she may be special, she's on an operating table with seemingly no control over what happens to her body or to her child's body or her friend's body.  

This so much. Killing off Cosima would make them really dark and would not fit the tone at all, especially since they did not kill Helena off. 

I think Kira does save Cosima - but metaphorically. Maybe Cosima was dreaming, maybe nearing death. Kira calls Cosima back to the real world, and then gives her the means to cure herself. It's just what Kira has been doing throughout - Kira is really invested in Cosima's survival, and it makes sense that Kira brought Cosima back from that perspective. IMO, Kira doesn't have to do the job literally. 

 

I agree with this.  I thought I had missed something because so many were noting that Kira 'healed' Cosima.  I've gone back to rewatch the scene again and Kira just seems to have been more the catalyst that brought Cosima out of her near death dreaming.  It was as though in sleep, Cosima was considering giving up but hearing and feeling a child (a child all the clones consider part of them, btw) rousing her was enough to subconsciously decide not to quit.  

 

I think it's clear that Kira is quite perceptive (maybe more but that's been a lot more unclear) which is why she had Cosima do something trivial like read a book about a dog before moving on to the special Dr. Moreau book.  The trivial reading exercise reminds Cosima that there is something worth fighting for before she's given the tool to fight.  

[Bort]

BUT Sarah Manning HAPPENS to be walking at the trains station at the EXACT time that Beth kills herself setting a whole bunch of things in motion and really what are the chances of that?

I've been assuming that Beth had somehow tracked down Sarah's whereabouts and decided to "check out" with the simultaneous perk of dragging Sarah into it. I find that more likely than "divine intervention," to be honest.

[CleoCaesar]

The obligatory anti-abortion stance was jarring.

A pencil in the eye does not make you fall down. The pencil entered the brain. I know the show wants to play around with feminine agency and so on, but honestly I can't help but feel the scene was pandering to a crass "Kill the bitch!" mentality.

 

 

I disagree on both counts. I didn’t read any anti-abortion sentiment into Sarah saying yes, she had an abortion. And Rachel is a bitch and completely heartless and deliberately causes others pain. Who wouldn’t cheer for her to get a pencil in the face?

 

I don't consider myself a hater honestly, but I just don't think Dylan Bruce would be able to pull off multiple characters at all.

 

 

He can barely pull off one, IMO. Doesn’t make you a “hater” to recognize that he’s not exactly Daniel Day Lewis.

 

Speaking of Paul, are they ever going to explain what That Thing That Happened in Afghanistan was?

 

The show faked me out with Dead!Cosima and I went "Oh thank God" when she woke up. Don't do that to me again, show.

Edited June 23, 2014 by CleoCaesar

[hardy har]

Speaking of Paul, are they ever going to explain what That Thing That Happened in Afghanistan was?

 

Considering we learned that he's been spying for Castor, I wonder if the Friendly Fire in Afghanistan was faked by the military so DYAD thought they had something over Paul.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

One thing I loved about the Sarah/Cosima scene is that it shows how far Sarah has come from the beginning of S1 when all she wanted to do was steal Beth's money and disappear. Now she refers to the Clone Club as her sisters and is willing to let Dyad take Kira's genetic material in an effort to save Cosima.

In previous episodes, Sarah said she needed Cosima's help (because Cosima is the science girl). But it was obvious that this time when Sarah said, "I can't do this without you," science had nothing to do with it. She loves Cosima and they are family now.

This show is rarely specific with the timeline, but I wouldn't be surprised if Cosima's decoding of Duncan's note runs up against the window for Kira to be eligibl to donate again.

As soon as they specifically mentioned that Kira couldn't donate again for six more weeks, I thought that was going to be the next big deadline (and possibly the timeline for next season).

Considering we learned that he's been spying for Castor, I wonder if the Friendly Fire in Afghanistan was faked by the military so DYAD thought they had something over Paul.

I'm 99% sure that the show runners confirmed this in one of the articles linked above.

ETA: Found it!

EW: So what’s Paul’s deal now? He returns as a major. How long has he been working with the military?

MANSON: Paul has apparently been working with the Castor side of the conspiracy the whole time. He’s been playing double agent. But he steps up for personal reasons to get Sarah out of this. At the end of the day, Paul the double agent has been shady and shadowy and not that likable, but in the end he did, he did it for Sarah.

EW: So he had been with the Castor side the entire time, because that was a bit unclear?

MANSON: I think he was embedded from the beginning. If you go back, this Afghanistan scenario that got him compromised by Dyad and put in that position as a monitor was manufactured to put him in that position where he appeared to be someone that they could compromise. So he was inserted as a spy into Project Leda by Project Castor.

Edited June 23, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Bort]

Considering we learned that he's been spying for Castor, I wonder if the Friendly Fire in Afghanistan was faked by the military so DYAD thought they had something over Paul.

And you know what, one throwaway line to this effect and I'd be fine with that as a conclusion to Paul's Afghanistan backstory because I don't think it's really all that important in the tapestry of the show. Teeny tiny loose thread at most.

[miles2go]

This might be a silly question, but why does it seem as though everyone accepts at face value that the vials of reddish liquid which Rachel was waving around & ultimately destroyed were actually Kira's bone marrow? Given the likely scientific value of the bone marrow (not just to Cosima, either), isn't it more logical that Rachel was using decoy vials to force Sarah's hand at a particularly stressful moment, and that the real bone marrow was safe elsewhere?

 

Good point.  It did strike me as very foolish for Rachel to destroy that bone marrow.  She is, after all, susceptible to the same illness  that Cosima has. She may need treatment someday, too.  Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!

[ShaggyDog]

Or a poke in the eye with a sharp stick .

Edited June 23, 2014 by ShaggyDog

[CatMack]

 

The military wanted a clone. If he convinced one to go with him, I assume he'd take her to them.

 

But then the problem becomes, why does he need to convince her?  If the military wants one of the female clones, they've had at least one on their radar for several years now (and more than one for several weeks/months/however long it's been since Paul realized Beth wasn't Beth and soon after met Alison, etc). 

 

And for that matter, to keep it on topic for this episode, why exactly did they need to make a deal regarding Helena to take her?  It's not like she was in Marion's custody.  If they wanted her, why not just take her?  To explain why they never took Beth, or one of the other clones Paul's known about for awhile, I can fanwank that they want Helena specifically (either because she's pregnant, although I don't think anyone knows that unless Mark is self aware and reporting to them, or they want to interrogate her about Proletheans, or maybe they specifically want a mentally unstable clone for experimentation because of problems with their own clones - etc, etc, etc).  And in terms of the deal in the finale, I guess I can assume that Mrs S's contribution to the plan was giving up Helena's whereabouts - I don't think it's been particularly hard for people to track Helena lately, and I'm not sure I'd really buy that they would need that deal to find her, but that's the best I can come up with right now. 

 

But then that goes back to what was Paul's plan back in season 1 and how does it fit with season 2.  To me, it doesn't make sense that the military went out of their way to make a deal for Helena unless they wanted Helena specifically, because otherwise they could have taken another clone any time.  And if they didn't want to take another clone before now, I'm right back to what was Paul going to do if Beth agreed to run?

 

It's not necessarily that I think this is an insurmountable continuity error.  I don't.  I think the answers to my confusion will come from explaining what exactly this deal was, why Helena, what do they want with her, etc.  And more importantly for me, it will come from actually giving Paul a character arch, giving him a personality beyond 'mysterious hot guy who we like to get naked as often as we can find reasons for", and exploring his motivations, on screen, not just in interviews after the fact.  I know a lot of people don't like Paul.  I do.  I like what they've set up for him, I think he could be a really great character if they'd actually use him, and I actually do think Dylan Bruce is a decent actor.  Is he Tatiana Maslany?  No.  But he's done some really nice subtle work that makes me think he could do a lot more if they'd actually give him something to work with (the scene in season 1 where he confronts Sarah about not being Beth, I think Dylan did a great job there, Paul was actually given something to do besides smirk mysteriously or take his shirt off). 

 

Basically, a lot of my discontent comes from feeling that they aren't finding the right balance between keeping the mystery going while still revealing answers.  There's too much piling on of additional crap, making things needlessly complicated and confusing, while not resolving anything substantial.  I don't expect answers on everything!  It's a mystery show, we're not going to get all the answers, at least until the show ends.  Just...some things.  Like, this season, what major answers did we get on mysteries posed in season 1?  The clones are barren by design and Sarah (and Helena) were mistakes.  The clone illness is a result of this.  And....???  We still know virtually nothing about Mrs S, Paul, Dyad's motivation, we had a whole subplot about a prolethean cell this season but still know nothing about how large the overall movement is, how many cells there are, how organized they are, if they have a unified agenda, how much of a continued threat are they, how they found out about clones and found Helena in the first place.  We know more about the clone illness now but that storyline is still ongoing (which I'm OK with, actually, but it still adds to the ongoing list of plots they have to juggle).  Now we're adding on more clones, another major antagonistic group with undefined motives, this new plot line pretty much has to mean the introduction of more new characters to keep juggling.  I feel like if we'd made more progress on Paul, or Mrs S, or found out a few more concrete answers on Dyad's past and current motivation, or had fleshed out the proletheans beyond one creepy isolated cult farm, I'd feel less apprehensive about continuing to not get satisfactory answers in season 3.  But we didn't, and now I have to hope that the writers can make a hell of a course correction on pacing for season 3, because they've got a crap ton more now to deal with and I'm worried they're just going to start dropping the ball on certain things because they decide it's not important enough to spend time on when they have such limited screen time.

[Cranberry]

Kristian Bruun's clone rankings are up!

[Sarah-phile]

Ok, if DYAD knew about the prolethians, then the military must have known about them too. My guess is that Mark doesn't know he's a clone, but that he was sent on a mission to spy on the prolethians to see what they were up too. So, he sets off for Big Love Ranch and tells Henrick he's AWOL, that he needs help and wants to join their flock and all that bullshit.

 

 

Ha and so much word to the bolded part. MIchelle Forbes is so great, but I don't trust Marion at all. The nicer and more helpful she got the more I didn't trust her and Sarah better watch her ass. Plus, there was the whole male clone reveal scene. Now, granted he looked unhinged, but the woman is keeping a man in a goddamn cage. Sure, it's nicer that the one Tomas put Helena in, but still.

Maybe Mark is a sleeper agent too!

 

Where else are you going to keep your houseboy? He can't be having the run of the place!

 

There's no way I buy MF's "I just want to help!" She's Michelle Forbes!

And maybe Crazy Mark clone is Marian's boy toy!

 

I believe it was stated in the first season that the German contacted Beth when Helena started killing the European clones and that Beth then used her police resources to find Allison and Cosima.  And neither Cosima or Allison (or Beth for that matter) were adopted.  Their mother's used IVF.  I do wonder if they thought they were using donor eggs and therefore knew their daughters weren't related to them genetically or if they thought their own fertilized eggs were being implanted. Since Tony's mother apparently said she thought there had been a mistake at the IVF clinic I'm guessing the latter. 

Something that always bothered me from season one was how in the world did Katya discover she had "genetic identicals,"  let alone that they were being killed off?  I suppose it's possible the killings drew media attention, and even though she lived in Germany and the other clones were in France, Italy, and Austria (?), she saw that press coverage and noticed that the victims looked just like her.  But from there to figure out they are her genetic identicals, get their passports, etc. is a bit much.  Seems like she is some super international investigator!  And she didn't exactly look that part.  At least with Beth they gave an explanation that was sort of plausible, but Katya's detective work hasn't yet been explained.

This might be a silly question, but why does it seem as though everyone accepts at face value that the vials of reddish liquid which Rachel was waving around & ultimately destroyed were actually Kira's bone marrow? Given the likely scientific value of the bone marrow (not just to Cosima, either), isn't it more logical that Rachel was using decoy vials to force Sarah's hand at a particularly stressful moment, and that the real bone marrow was safe elsewhere?

 

 

i thought that, but if those were decoys and if Rachel survives, she's not going to up to or interesting in revealing where the real vials are. So it would matter for Rachel's characterization but not for cosima's treatment.

This show is rarely specific with the timeline, but I wouldn't be surprised if Cosima's decoding of Duncan's note runs up against the window for Kira to be eligibl to donate again.

I was wondering if they were the same vials too -- only because I could have sworn that the liquid in the vials from episode 9 was clear.  But I haven't gone back to check.  Anyone else remember that?  I don't know if bone marrow has blood in it and so would be red or not.  (I bet someone here does though!)

And you know what, one throwaway line to this effect and I'd be fine with that as a conclusion to Paul's Afghanistan backstory because I don't think it's really all that important in the tapestry of the show. Teeny tiny loose thread at most.

This one loose thread really bugs me ... here's from my post on the Paul thread:

 

I'm thinking (or maybe fanwanking) maybe he was a sleeper agent -- not told what's going on but put in place to be ready to assist the military if/when it's needed.  While he's monitoring Beth, he's pretty low level, but once he gets promoted to monitoring Rachel -- and learns all about the other clones and Dyad's intentions -- suddenly he's worth using.  He did tell Siobhan that his promotion to major was more recent.

I don't know if that works, but it makes more sense to me than to assume he was a double agent during season 1.  If so, he's the worst double agent ever!  He and Beth are living together, and he doesn't know that she's discovered all these clones and even has met Sammy (who at some point knows who Paul is) in Cleveland and Alison in New York, or that she's found and killed Maggie Chen, or that she's contemplating suicide.  OK, so maybe he was a terrible monitor too.  Or are we supposed to think he knew all these things but didn't do anything about them besides report them up the chain?  Beth would have been a much better spy.  On top of that, if he knows that there are clones all over North America, how come he doesn't clue in that Sarah is a clone right away?  That only makes sense if he doesn't know Beth is a clone.  Also, there is the scene in Alison's basement where he finds her sleeping and thinks she's Beth.  He's alone in that scene, and he seems genuinely confused.  And he plans to kill Sarah (he mixed a bunch of pills with alcohol is how I recall it) despite knowing she is the one clone who can procreate?  That makes no sense.  He told Sarah that he was serious about flying off to Rio, so I agree that's another scene that doesn't fit with his being a double agent.  Also, when she blames him for Beth's suicide, he seems genuinely contrite and upset and tells her he didn't have a choice.  I suppose now we're supposed to think that was Paul's acting?

 

I kind of hate that the explanation now is that Paul was lying to everyone (even himself) throughout season 1.

[bluebonnet]

But then the problem becomes, why does he need to convince her?  If the military wants one of the female clones, they've had at least one on their radar for several years now (and more than one for several weeks/months/however long it's been since Paul realized Beth wasn't Beth and soon after met Alison, etc). 

 

And for that matter, to keep it on topic for this episode, why exactly did they need to make a deal regarding Helena to take her?  It's not like she was in Marion's custody.  If they wanted her, why not just take her?  To explain why they never took Beth, or one of the other clones Paul's known about for awhile, I can fanwank that they want Helena specifically (either because she's pregnant, although I don't think anyone knows that unless Mark is self aware and reporting to them, or they want to interrogate her about Proletheans, or maybe they specifically want a mentally unstable clone for experimentation because of problems with their own clones - etc, etc, etc).  And in terms of the deal in the finale, I guess I can assume that Mrs S's contribution to the plan was giving up Helena's whereabouts - I don't think it's been particularly hard for people to track Helena lately, and I'm not sure I'd really buy that they would need that deal to find her, but that's the best I can come up with right now. 

 

But then that goes back to what was Paul's plan back in season 1 and how does it fit with season 2.  To me, it doesn't make sense that the military went out of their way to make a deal for Helena unless they wanted Helena specifically, because otherwise they could have taken another clone any time.  And if they didn't want to take another clone before now, I'm right back to what was Paul going to do if Beth agreed to run?

 

Project Castor and Project Leda knew about each other.  The DYAD was aware the military had male clones and the military was aware that the DYAD had female clones.  This wasn't a secret between the groups, nor was it a secret that their goals were different.  One group isn't going to start making moves against the other without having good information that a move would be worth their while.  One group starts doing that and the other group can easily counter with "you're messing up my project, so I'm blowing yours out of the water HELLO MEDIA".  

 

It makes sense for Leda and Castor to have spies in both camps.  There was nothing actionable that Castor would have needed to do when the female clones were not presenting with any biological variations.  As far as they knew, they were all barren and bound for an early death so what point would they have with taking a clone sooner when they already knew there wasn't new data to be had.  Acquiring a clone or scientific data on a clone doesn't become relevant for the military until there's a 'mistake' clone.  Still, there needs to be some tiptoeing done so that both sides are satisfied and neither side can make disparaging claims about the other.  

 

Which is where the exchange came from.  Sarah's the first to have a child and she also has this twin sister who probably shares the same mistaken code Sarah shares.  Leda wanted something and Castor wanted something, so they traded.  I'm guessing that Mrs. S's past with the powers that be meant she was granted a favor in Sarah not being the scientific data sharing guinea pig for both groups and for Kira being released.  In exchange, Leda can hand over Helena for info from Castor (that's the whole folder exchange from Paul to Marion) while DYAD maintains nominal control over Sarah and the real prize - Kira.  

 

In short, it works out best for both organizations if they cooperate rather than just start snatching.  I'm assuming Marion's Mark clone acquisition had more to do with her being part of "top side" or them just sending a clone to her for study since he seemed mentally troubled.  

 

 

 

Something that always bothered me from season one was how in the world did Katya discover she had "genetic identicals,"  let alone that they were being killed off?  I suppose it's possible the killings drew media attention, and even though she lived in Germany and the other clones were in France, Italy, and Austria (?), she saw that press coverage and noticed that the victims looked just like her.  But from there to figure out they are her genetic identicals, get their passports, etc. is a bit much.  Seems like she is some super international investigator!  And she didn't exactly look that part.  At least with Beth they gave an explanation that was sort of plausible, but Katya's detective work hasn't yet been explained.

I kinda thought Katya's detective work was fairly self-explanatory.  The explanation being that she was well off enough to likely hire private investigators when she started seeing her face on the daily murder news and then went on to pay off a clinic to test the DNA samples she acquired through other pay offs.   

[Sarah-phile]

Kristian Bruun's clone rankings are up!

I like his explanation of Paul so much better than the writers' explanation:

 

YC: So was Paul secretly working for the army this whole time?

KB: No, they’ve taken him back – he played his cards right because they’ve given him a promotion. He must have figured out about the military side of the clone experiments.

YC: Oh, right, because he and Mark had that conversation in the bar a few weeks ago. Maybe Paul recognized Mark from also knowing his clone in the army.

KB: Right, and Paul was like, “Let me guess – army?” to Mark. So maybe that’s when Paul figured it out. And Mark is AWOL from the army. Layers upon layers upon layers.

 

This makes much more sense!

[Zuleikha]

Speaking of Paul, are they ever going to explain what That Thing That Happened in Afghanistan was?

 

Paul told us what it was back in S1 when he confessed about the friendly fire to Sarah. My understanding is that Mrs. S's line about it being for nothing was because that event was used to embed Paul as a double agent for Project Castor, so if he screwed up and was outed to Leda/Dyad, it would be for nothing. I'm going to assume from that the friendly fire incident really happened and really was accidental friendly fire... sort of a grotesque example of Project Castor making lemonade out of lemons. 

 

Now how Mrs. S knew that Paul was really Project Castor is beyond me. I'm trying to remember how the scene was shot. Did they have an offscreen tete a tete before that line, or was it all part of the initial introductions? Mrs. S's mysterious involvement is feeling very deus ex machina to me, and it's driving me a bit crazy. She knows as much or as little and is exactly involved as the plot bunnies need her to be.

[possibilities]

I didn’t read any anti-abortion sentiment into Sarah saying yes, she had an abortion

Neither did I. As for the show, they had Helena, who is very baby and child friendly, tell Grace "If you don't want to have my babies, don't have my babies."

 

And for that matter, to keep it on topic for this episode, why exactly did they need to make a deal regarding Helena to take her?  It's not like she was in Marion's custody.  If they wanted her, why not just take her?

Professional courtesy. They see the female clones as Dyad property.

 

Also, the military might not have known about Helena and Sarah. Maybe it was framed as: "We have these two defective clones, and it's scientifically very interesting. We'll trade you one of ours for one of yours.

 

I suppose Paul bringing one to them voluntarily might fall under the "it's okay if we can blame it on Paul (that traitor!), and not admit we orchestrated it happening." But that's more of a stretch.

 

I think we were told everything about Paul's and Dyad's motivations. Paul was out for himself, and sided with the military because it got him his freedom and more rewards than siding with Dyad. Dyad is in the clone business because they think it's an inevitable and highly profitable industry and they can make a lot of money, plus some of them think it's very scientifically interesting.

 

The Prolethians are just another religious cult which has latched onto the clone business as an evil tampering with God's plan (thus wanting Helena to kill them all except for Sarah who like Helena is free of the proprietary self-destruct mechanisms.

 

I think they've given us too little on Mrs S's background and motivation, but we have seen that she is 100% about protecting Kira, so that's something. She also seemed to have sincere concern over Felix after Rachel plunged that syringe into his neck. It seems like she's a genuine foster parent, but how she got involved with the rest of it, I agree they should spell out.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Professional courtesy. They see the female clones as Dyad property.

I'm not sure "professional courtesy" is the right term, but absolutely to the rest. For CASTOR to just take Helena it would have been like helping themselves to a DYAD limo that wasn't being used.

[Geo]

That shot of the Mark clone in uniform gave me a sudden flash of the Clone Troopers from Star Wars: purpose-built, little difference from one to the other, and perfectly comfortable with that fact.

 

Yes! I definately thought of the Clone Troopers too.  The ones from the surprisingly good cartoon though, not the horrible movie.  :-)

 

 

I'm scared for the military. They won't know what hit them.

 

This! They will not put up with her crazyness to be sure but they definately need her for something so they won't kill her. She will suffer at first but In the end, my money is on the crazy angel.

 

 

I was wondering if they were the same vials too -- only because I could have sworn that the liquid in the vials from episode 9 was clear.  But I haven't gone back to check.  Anyone else remember that?  I don't know if bone marrow has blood in it and so would be red or not.  (I bet someone here does though!)

 

from Wikipedia:

 

"The two types of bone marrow are medulla ossium rubra (red marrow), which consists mainly of hematopoietic tissue, and medulla ossium flava (yellow marrow), which is mainly made up of fat cells. Red blood cells, platelets, and most white blood cells arise in red marrow. Both types of bone marrow contain numerous blood vessels and capillaries. At birth, all bone marrow is red. With age, more and more of it is converted to the yellow type; only around half of adult bone marrow is red. Red marrow is found mainly in the flat bones, such as the pelvis, sternum, cranium, ribs, vertebrae and scapulae, and in the cancellous ("spongy") material at the epiphyseal ends of long bones such as the femur and humerus. Yellow marrow is found in the medullary cavity, the hollow interior of the middle portion of long bones."

 

Since Kira is still a child and they took the sample from her hip (the pelvis region) that the sample would be red marrow.  And that is way more than I ever wanted to know about bone marrow.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Geo

[BigDfromLA]

Nice to see Canadian actor Tom McCamus (from the great movie "A Man In Uniform") playing the doctor at the start of the episode. I have really enjoyed the casting of guest stars this season. I have always liked Michelle Forbes (from "In Treatment", "24" and the movies "Swimming With Sharks" and "Kalifornia"). It was also cool to see Patrick J. Adams and Matt Frewer from "Max Headroom" this season.

 

I would imagine that Sarah probably had multiple abortions before Kira was born. If she is 29 and was 21 when she had Kira, that would give her a lot of time between 14 and 21 to have a few, based on her previous lifestyle.

 

Why can't Sarah give bone marrow to treat Cosima? Why does it have to be just Kira. I would imagine that Sarah is closer genetically to Cosima than Kira is.

 

I don't see the male Mark clones becoming major characters. That would be a lot to ask of the actor. I don't think they will get 20% of the "screen time" that the female clones will have next season.

 

Weren't the Prolethians wiped out when Helena burned down their complex and killed their "leader"? I think the group is gone for good.

 

Hopefully we have seen the last of Delphine.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I would imagine that Sarah probably had multiple abortions before Kira was born. If she is 29 and was 21 when she had Kira, that would give her a lot of time between 14 and 21 to have a few, based on her previous lifestyle.

I doubt that Sarah had multiple abortions. Just because she began having sex when she was 14 or 15 doesn't mean that she was having sex every month while she was ovulating. I know some girls who lost their virginity around the same age and then didn't have sex again for several years.

Why can't Sarah give bone marrow to treat Cosima? Why does it have to be just Kira. I would imagine that Sarah is closer genetically to Cosima than Kira is.

If Sarah and Cosima are clones and therefore have the same DNA, it stands to reason that all of them have the same illness so using Sarah's bone marrow wouldn't help Cosima.

[lulee]

I doubt that Sarah had multiple abortions. Just because she began having sex when she was 14 or 15 doesn't mean that she was having sex every month while she was ovulating.

Or even if she did, that she a pregnancy resulted.

[Bort]

If Sarah and Cosima are clones and therefore have the same DNA, it stands to reason that all of them have the same illness so using Sarah's bone marrow wouldn't help Cosima.

There's got to be a difference in there somewhere since Sarah is fertile and the other clones aren't. Especially since being barren is the apparent cause of the illness in the first place. So yeah, I'm also kind of curious as to why Sarah isn't a bone marrow option.

[hardy har]

Eh, even though Sarah is fertile and the rest are not, it'd still be a pretty big risk to assume her marrow would work. Based on the speed of her illness Cosima didn't/doesn't exactly have a lot of time, so between knowing Kira is a match and hoping Sarah is a match you'd kind of have to go with the Kira option. Plus, would rendering clones infertile have any effect on their marrow anyway?

 

No OB tonight. Boo.

Edited June 28, 2014 by hardy har

[LeGrandElephant]

I thought it was weird that Kira was never in the same shot as the clones during the dance party. It was super obvious they had to film them separately for some reason. My guess was it must take a long time to film that with all the different clones and they just couldn't expect the little girl actress to be on camera for that long? But thry could have made it less obvious by filming her at least next to one of them at a time for a couple shots. I kept thinking why is Kira dancing so far away from everyone else?

[LeGrandElephant]

I didn't understand what deal Mrs. S made at all. Did I miss it, or did they not say?

[Carrie Ann]

Are you referring to her deal with Paul? The deal was that she got Sarah and Kira and he got Helena.

[Athena]

I think part of that deal also included Paul giving up a Castor clone/Cageboy to Marion so that they could help Sarah and Kira.

[JKG]

I didn't understand what deal Mrs. S made at all. Did I miss it, or did they not say?

 

Delurking to commiserate. I literally had to re-watch this section of the finale 5 times to make sense of what was going on, and I'm still not sure I completely get it, LOL.

 

My understanding of what took place:

 

Cal was investigating DYAD and came across Marian on Darknet. They started to communicate.

 

Realizing the value of what Cal has stumbled upon, Mrs. S contacts Paul for info on Project Castor. She agrees to give up Helena in exchange for a male clone, and coordinates the meeting between Paul and Marian via Cal. Paul hands over the info on Cageboy in exchange for Sarah & Kira's release.

 

Paul arranges Cageboy to be sent to Marian, and for Helena to be kidnapped and sent to heaven-knows-where.

 

Is that about right?

 

I think what threw me for a loop was the fact that in the scenes with Mrs. S/Cal before he got into the car with Marian, Paul was not holding any sort of a folder. Then poof! they show him entering the car with the file folder in his hands. I'm guessing they must have cut some footage out?

 

Also, how much does Cal know about the nature of the deal that lead to Sarah and Kira's release? I noticed  he didn't say anything to Sarah when she tried to thank him in the scene just before Helena meets her sisters. Was he asked to stay mum on the issue, or was this a deliberate omission on his part?

[Haleth]

Ok, my mind is blown. I was shocked when the Mark clone turned around. Bravo, writers! I really want to know if the Leda girls and the Castor boys are siblings, half siblings, or not related at all.

[beedub]

Ok, my mind is blown. I was shocked when the Mark clone turned around. Bravo, writers! I really want to know if the Leda girls and the Castor boys are siblings, half siblings, or not related at all.

Great question, because you've just made me realize that at the very start of Season 2, when Mark is spiriting Helena away from the hospital in a wheelchair, she asks him who he is and all he says is... "Family"!

At the time, of course, I just thought he meant family as in Prolethean, but now...

Edited July 9, 2014 by beedub

[fantique]

Re: the child and the same hairstyle. They are both being brought up by, essentially, DYAD. Makes sense there would be some similarity between young Rachel and Charlotte. Plus it's a fairly common hairstyle, I think. 

Isn't it just that it's a typical hairstyle to for a young girl her age? I mean up until a certain age I don't think girls put enough thought into their hairstyle that it's more their personality coming out than what kind of family they belong to. All the clones changed their hair as they grew up but obviously they would all look identical at those times. I mean 8 yr olds have like... what? 3 hairstyles in their repertoires? Hair tied, hair down, braids? Of course that doesn't mean there isn't symbolism but if there wasn't I dont see how they would have made her hir different without it being weird. I mean she can't have it dyed or styled too much; that looks weird on a child.

 

I am really impressed by the Castor storyline. I felt that they might make male clones at some point but I expected it later and I definitely was not expecting Mark to be the male clone. I really liked that until they brought it up onscreen, I really wasn't thinking they were even considering going in the direction of male clones. And when they brought it up, I was soo sure it would be Feilx but I totally understand why and applaud them for not going with the "obvious" choice. Although I would have absolutely loved to se Jordan Gavaris playing with different clones.

I totally did not consider that Leda and Castor clones could be related... Interesting. I am still not sure I'm clear on the clones' evolution. As I understood it, they are 100% manmade right? There is no "original", DYAD just mufactured this human being and then cloned that result.

[topanga]

Realizing the value of what Cal has stumbled upon, Mrs. S contacts Paul for info on Project Castor. She agrees to give up Helena in exchange for a male clone, and coordinates the meeting between Paul and Marian via Cal. Paul hands over the info on Cageboy in exchange for Sarah & Kira's release.

 

Paul arranges Cageboy to be sent to Marian, and for Helena to be kidnapped and sent to heaven-knows-where.

 

Why does Marian need one of the male clones?

[Black Knight]

This episode just won the 2015 Hugo for Best Dramatic Presentation Short Form, beating out episodes of Dr. Who, Game of Thrones, The Flash, and Grimm. Congratulations to the Orphan Black cast and crew!

[Bouffe]

On June 21, 2014 at 10:20 PM, Sarah-phile said:

I was really distracted by the scenes in Felix's apartment because I kept thinking how stupid it was for them to be there with no protection. Even Sarah's trip to Marian's house bugged me because it seemed so risky. Dyad is so powerful, and Marian seemed to be acting on her own to help Sarah and Kira. So it seemed really naive of them to think they were safe at Felix's, and of course Helena wasn't safe.

I am slow on the uptake and only started watching this show this summer... And I watched S2E10 last night. 

This show is really screwing with my brain - during the dance scene (which was awesome), I was on edge expecting something to happen, especially when they were showing Kira dancing in front of that big window. I couldn't believe nothing happened, other than Allison and Felix grinding (hilarious!).

On June 21, 2014 at 10:34 PM, OriginalCyn said:

Also, my dumb ass forgot she'd been carrying her frozen embryos, so when the camera focused on the nitrogen container, at first I thought she'd left some sort of bomb.  I had to process that one for a couple of minutes as it was swirling with the Holy Fuckedness of the episode until the light went on in my brain.  

Thank you, I had totally forgotten about that, too, and kept wondering why she left that nitrogen tank there. It all makes sense now. I wonder if Cosima will be able to use them at all? Helena being Sarah's twin, perhaps she is able to have a viable pregnancy, too?

[Bouffe]

On June 22, 2014 at 8:48 PM, Jack Shaftoe said:

I think about half of my desire to watch season 3 died when Alison and Cosima literally welcomed Helena with open arms. Nobody so much as mentioned her being, you know, a serial killer or discussed if it was a good idea to invite her. The hell? Of course, given that Sarah was "hiding" after her escape at the very first place the Dyad goons would come looking for her, I guess everyone was overdosed with stupid pilsl or something.

I thought it was all a bit odd that Cosima and Allison would welcome Helena with open arms. However, doing so was in line with Cosima's character. And then, when Allison approached Helena to meet her, it was a cold handshake rather than a warm embrace like Cosima had done. So to me, that was Allison's way of protesting... "Wait, is this girl going to kill me or what?"

[Bouffe]

On June 22, 2014 at 9:16 PM, rozen said:

Helena is the only clone with no attachments, no one who would miss her. Of course Mrs. S would choose her to screw over in her deal with Paul. I hope she busts out and finds Jesse, never to be seen again. None of the other clones will truly look out for her. I firmly believe everyone is insane for being as lax around her as they are...but her sly grin when Felix chidingly asked "did you burn down those fish people's farm?" slayed me. Such an adorable serial killer.

Well, Mrs S did say, while handing over Helena, that Sarah was never going to forgive her. So Sarah would miss Helena and perhaps try to find her/save her. Also, I wondered if Mrs S chose Helena because she is the one, aside from Sarah, that is most likely to escape/survive what's ahead.