S02.E15: Risk and Reward

[evansmom10]

On 2/19/2019 at 7:22 AM, preeya said:

Yeah, that whole scene was bogus. A sealed envelope delivered by a messenger???

Just for dramatic/comedic effect.

That or he knew those vultures would dive for it:) 

[Annber03]

3 hours ago, evansmom10 said:

My shallow a** came here only to say that Daniel Dae Kim is a bonafide SNACK. 

*Wades in the shallow end of the pool with you* Co-signed. 

[JenMcSnark]

On 2/19/2019 at 12:41 PM, Babalooie said:

No one can play pitiful like Freddie Highmore.  See August Rush.

On a superficial note, the Asians seem to be into facial reconstruction surgery as much as Americans.  See BTS.    

No worries.  Shaun will be back in surgery  IMO.

I'm confused by this comment.  Are you suggesting that Daniel Dae Kim has had facial reconstruction surgery?  Or perhaps Tamlyn Tomita or Christina Chang since you generalized "Asians".  

South Korea is known for their plastic surgery industry, but only one member of BTS, Kim Nam-joon, has had facial reconstruction surgery for a deviated septum.  

Your comment just seems very generalized (stereotypical?) and not  pertinent to discussion regarding the episode or show hence my confusion.  

But back on topic, I was having very mixed feelings about whether Dr. Han was a dick or not, but the end did solidify it for me.  What a dick.  

I really teared up through the baby storyline and also due to the depression aspect.  Claire handled it beautifully.  Antonia Brown is a great actor. 

Edited February 22, 2019 by JenMcSnark

[aemom]

I don't know if DDK has done anything to his face, but he does look different.  I've liked him from way back on 24. His character is indeed a total dick. He knows it too. He smiles at you while he's being a total dick.

Shaun actually did a good job of not freaking out at the bus stop about being moved to pathology, because that's the sort of thing that would send someone with ASD into a tailspin.  Heck, it would do that to anyone. 

The one good aspect of that is that it will probably be interesting from a story line perspective.  I suspect that when it's all over, Shaun will be back in surgery and Han will have grudging respect for him - Melendez 2.0

Edited February 22, 2019 by AEMom
Typo

[Babalooie]

14 hours ago, JenMcSnark said:

I'm confused by this comment.  Are you suggesting that Daniel Dae Kim has had facial reconstruction surgery?  Or perhaps Tamlyn Tomita or Christina Chang since you generalized "Asians".  

South Korea is known for their plastic surgery industry, but only one member of BTS, Kim Nam-joon, has had facial reconstruction surgery for a deviated septum.  

Your comment just seems very generalized (stereotypical?) and not  pertinent to discussion regarding the episode or show hence my confusion.  

But back on topic, I was having very mixed feelings about whether Dr. Han was a dick or not, but the end did solidify it for me.  What a dick.  

I really teared up through the baby storyline and also due to the depression aspect.  Claire handled it beautifully.  Antonia Brown is a great actor. 

Sorry to confuse you.   Frankly, I didn't recognize Daniel  Dae Kim due to the change in his appearance and it is pertinent to discussion of the episode if discussing the actor.   I was simply pointing out that Americans are apparently not the only ones into plastic surgery.  I've seen multiple boy bands from S. Korea, as well as read articles regarding their surgeries. 

I feel sure that Shaun will be placed back in his position, as the show revolves around him as a doctor and his struggles relating to patients.

[JenMcSnark]

4 hours ago, Babalooie said:

Sorry to confuse you.   Frankly, I didn't recognize Daniel  Dae Kim due to the change in his appearance and it is pertinent to discussion of the episode if discussing the actor.   I was simply pointing out that Americans are apparently not the only ones into plastic surgery.  I've seen multiple boy bands from S. Korea, as well as read articles regarding their surgeries. 

I feel sure that Shaun will be placed back in his position, as the show revolves around him as a doctor and his struggles relating to patients.

Thanks for clarifying.  I appreciate it. 

[possibilities]

I'm thinking that the parents of that baby would rather have Shaun on the team because he saved the baby's life, than see him fired for being tactless.

Edited February 24, 2019 by possibilities

[theatremouse]

As a human, I was very annoyed by the exchange between DDK and FH but from a plot perspective, I know it was very much intentional that new Chief asked him "did you tell the mother" blah blah blah and at no point did Murphy say "She asked and I answered." 

If the way he found about Murphy confirming the drug could be at fault was the mother saying "Dr. Murphy said X" then there's a whole bucketful of misunderstanding. To me, there's a big difference between randomly saying "hey did you take paroxitine? Well that could've caused this" to a scared mother VS said mother saying "What could've caused this? I was on this drug. Could that be it?" and him saying "yes it could".

Before even getting into whether the tone he used in discussing it were appropriate or how someone neurotypical would've done it, or anything else, since DDK's character has no way of knowing what tone he used either way, the context matters and the context was omitted. Add on top of that a giant heaping portion of SOMEONE PLEASE CALL THE EEOC ON THESE FUCKERS. Ugh. So annoying.

[possibilities]

Yeah, there's apparently no due process and no investigation.

Of course, in my experience as a disabled person, that's generally how it goes. Unless you sue, you can pretty much count on almost no one giving half a crap about your legal rights or general common sense and decency. And even if you DO sue, almost no one actually understands your rights and will act both shocked and offended when they find out what they are.

*Some people will be nice to you because they think of themselves as nice people. But they rarely if ever do it because they understand that you actually have a right to non-discriminatory treatment.

This hospital has always acted like disability rights do not exist, ever since the first episode when they had that absurd hiring process, and since then when they took bets on whether Shaun would fail and who on the bet would lose their job if he did.

They also showed some skepticism about other discrimination law when they had "you assaulted an attending but we can't fire you because you're a POC and will sue us".

The show's attitude about civil rights for minorities (POC, PWD) is pretty much terrible.

They show more nuance and do a somewhat better job with the autism portrayal in other ways, but if we're hoping they are going to actually talk about employment law, we have to hope they hired new writers also.

Edited February 24, 2019 by possibilities

[bros402]

7 hours ago, possibilities said:

Yeah, there's apparently no due process and no investigation.

Of course, in my experience as a disabled person, that's generally how it goes. Unless you sue, you can pretty much count on almost no one giving half a crap about your legal rights or general common sense and decency. And even if you DO sue, almost no one actually understands your rights and will act both shocked and offended when they find out what they are.

*Some people will be nice to you because they think of themselves as nice people. But they rarely if ever do it because they understand that you actually have a right to non-discriminatory treatment.

This hospital has always acted like disability rights do not exist, ever since the first episode when they had that absurd hiring process, and since then when they took bets on whether Shaun would fail and who on the bet would lose their job if he did.

They also showed some skepticism about other discrimination law when they had "you assaulted an attending but we can't fire you because you're a POC and will sue us".

The show's attitude about civil rights for minorities (POC, PWD) is pretty much terrible.

They show more nuance and do a somewhat better job with the autism portrayal in other ways, but if we're hoping they are going to actually talk about employment law, we have to hope they hired new writers also.

yuuup

I had a discriminatory professor in college. Nobody would do anything, then I filed a FERPA request for communication between the professor and disability services. Didn't get a response. Went to the affirmative action office of the college 6 days before they would've been out of compliance of FERPA. Filed a huge complaint with the AA officer, then I mentioned the FERPA request to him again and he had an "OH SHIT" look on his face. The next business day, got a phone call from the college's legal counsel, asking for my attorney's information. I told them I didn't have an attorney and the person said "what? but this is written so well!"

They got me the requested paperwork 2 PM, 44 days after the initial request was filed.

Every time after that when the college had to meet with me beyond basic advisory stuff, they sent certified letters and filled the room with people.

They learned quickly about underestimating me

[doctor destiny]

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

Yeah, there's apparently no due process and no investigation.

Of course, in my experience as a disabled person, that's generally how it goes. Unless you sue, you can pretty much count on almost no one giving half a crap about your legal rights or general common sense and decency. And even if you DO sue, almost no one actually understands your rights and will act both shocked and offended when they find out what they are.

*Some people will be nice to you because they think of themselves as nice people. But they rarely if ever do it because they understand that you actually have a right to non-discriminatory treatment.

This hospital has always acted like disability rights do not exist, ever since the first episode when they had that absurd hiring process, and since then when they took bets on whether Shaun would fail and who on the bet would lose their job if he did.

They also showed some skepticism about other discrimination law when they had "you assaulted an attending but we can't fire you because you're a POC and will sue us".

The show's attitude about civil rights for minorities (POC, PWD) is pretty much terrible.

They show more nuance and do a somewhat better job with the autism portrayal in other ways, but if we're hoping they are going to actually talk about employment law, we have to hope they hired new writers also.

This was written by David Renaud who is in a wheelchair.  He also wrote "Pain".  He is more than well aware of discrimination in the professional field and no doubt knows about the EEOC.  I think it's to do with the drama.  Shaun needs to be seen on his hero's journey, battling the foes of adversity.  The difference this time is that the perspective includes people who have grown to like and respect Shaun and how very different that is from the beginning of the first series.  We also know Shaun and are rooting for him.  The same guy who looked after his grumpy mentor/dad who has cancer when there were no other people to help.  A good man going through a lot who doesn't deserve this.  In what better way could they have shown the unfairness of discrimination against autistic adults?  That doesn't stop it from being intensely painful to watch.  

[possibilities]

I think it's bad writing and a disservice to PWD to milk drama out of discrimination without also showing legal rights. It feeds the whole narrative that we don't HAVE rights, and must depend on the sympathy and patience of people who like us, instead of being empowered and treated with respect because that's the right thing to do. It makes heroes out of Shaun's friends and a victim out of Shaun. It's a rescue fantasy for "able-bodied savior allies" and basically a form of misery porn. Also, it's hella condescending.

I don't object to them showing discrimination. It's painful but it needs to be exposed. What I object to is the way the show feeds the narrative that erases the existence of disability rights, the hard-fought and won battles of PWDs, and makes Shaun into a token victim.

It's also just bad storytelling. They are asking us to buy that Shaun got through medical school, and isn't used to facing prejudice or advocating for himself? He hasn't thought of getting a lawyer? C'mon!

[doctor destiny]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

I don't object to them showing discrimination. It's painful but it needs to be exposed. What I object to is the way the show feeds the narrative that erases the existence of disability rights, the hard-fought and won battles of PWDs, and makes Shaun into a token victim.

I think that's very fair and underlines the truth that the show is for a broad range of viewers some of whom are ignorant of these struggles.  I don't think that it's NT savior syndrome/token victim - at least from my read of some of the articles on "Believe".  Let's wait and see on that.  There is a lot of growth for Shaun in the series - albeit it's a bit uneven in the telling.  That reflects the reality for autistic adults and rejects the fallacy that development somehow stops in teenagehood.  The essence of Han's argument is that Shaun will never change for the "better".  It's a slightly different skew than Shaun-shouldn't-be-here-right-now-because-he-is-plainly-incompetent that we saw in the first series.  It's equally discriminatory but subtly different.

[theatremouse]

Yeah, my problem isn't that the show has Murphy's superiors constantly discriminating against him and breaking the law. I don't doubt this happens constantly. What bothers me about it is that no one in the show seems to recall there are laws that they might be breaking. It comes across like they're pretending those laws don't exist, rather than being too pompous to think of them, or thinking they're using a loophole, or even knowing it's against the law and not caring. It's written in a very odd way that seems to imply this is normal. It may be common, but it's not normal and too many of these characters are too educated for this to never come up. If there were emotional reasons or social angst or other character driven reasons why no one says anything that'd also be drama and much more satisfying than the fake-feeling melodrama that completely ignores blatant employment law violations.

[ForReal]

6 hours ago, theatremouse said:

What bothers me about it is that no one in the show seems to recall there are laws that they might be breaking...It may be common, but it's not normal and too many of these characters are too educated for this to never come up.

I totally agree. The only reason I miss the blond lawyer who was engaged to Melendez last season is that she could have been the voice of reason here.

Like Doctor Destiny said, it's rather painful to watch. I have a grown child on the spectrum, and I could totally see this happening to her. Once attacked, she would be incapable of explaining how the conversation went to defend herself. It hurts to watch this happening to Shaun.