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DanaK

Series 12 Spoilers, Speculation, Production News Discussion thread

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https://cultbox.co.uk/news/doctor-who-series-12-eighth-episode-titled-the-haunting-of-villa-diodati#disqus_thread

Per Cultbox, Episode 8 is titled “The Haunting Of Villa Diodati” and features Mary Shelley. It’s cowritten by Maxine Alderton and Chris Chibnall. Rumors say it involves one or more Cybermen

https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2020-02-04/doctor-who-mary-shelley-episode/

Chibnall talks more about the Mary Shelley episode (#8), on the night in 1816 where Shelley writes "Frankenstein", including casting age-appropriate actors to play the characters (Shelley, Lord Byron and Percy Shelley) given Mary Shelley was only 18 at the time. He refused to confirm if a Cyberman was in the episode, only saying there's a ghost story

On 2/3/2020 at 2:45 PM, DanaK said:

Regarding Series 13, someone at Gallifrey Base is saying show producer Nikki Wilson said they will be starting filming in early Summer (which month is considered early Summer for the UK?). Someone said somewhere else a month or two ago that Jodie maybe said May during some Q&A or interview

Just to note, there seems to some signs there might be some secret filming on Series 13 going on now. Bradley Walsh reportedly told some fans he had recently done some filming for the series in Barry Island Wales and then told them he shouldn't have said that and to pretend they didn't hear it. So no idea what's going on at the moment. There's also the possibility that they might be starting late to accommodate Tosin filming his AMC series, or they might be starting without much of a break from the previous filming to allow him time to film his series afterwards. No idea at the moment what's exactly true

Edited by DanaK

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I was kind of hoping we'd get a new companion for next series. Meaning one new companion, maybe two. The companions are okay, but I don't feel like they need to be there. 

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Just now, Sakura12 said:

I was kind of hoping we'd get a new companion for next series. Meaning one new companion, maybe two. The companions are okay, but I don't feel like they need to be there. 

I think it would help if we had only 2 companions vs 3. It sort of worked in Series 11 as Graham and Ryan had a character storyline of mourning Grace and getting to know each other, plus you had Yaz to help with stuff. Now that they are done with that, Yaz seems to be getting some attention (though not enough) and Graham is getting the short end of the stick. I think getting the companions to do some tasks away from the Doctor would still work fine (like in the recent Praxeus) if there's one less companion, and the remaining two would get more to do

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1 hour ago, DanaK said:

Just to note, there seems to some signs there might be some secret filming on Series 13 going on now. Bradley Walsh reportedly told some fans he had recently done some filming for the series in Barry Island Wales and then told them he shouldn't have said that and to pretend they didn't hear it. So no idea what's going on at the moment.

I live in Cardiff and there is certainly a fair bit of filming going on around the city at the moment, I've spotted cameras and crews a bunch of times in the last few weeks, but there are so many productions based here these days that I can no longer tell, most of the time, which show I've stumbled over now. Time was, if I saw cameras, it was always Doctor Who - but those days are long gone!

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https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/doctor-who-battle-entire-army-21430923

Per the Mirror (by a Who-friendly writer), the Doctor and the team will battle an entire army of Cybermen in an epic 2 part season finale, according to showrunner Chibnall. Chibnall reveals that Julie Graham (she was Ruby in the Sarah Jane Adventures spin-off series) will play an all-action hero. Chibnall says the finale will be as epic and emotional as the 2-part premiere

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Just to point out. In regards to Series 13, it’s possible Brad’s fans were confused or Brad was talking about something else or joshing with them and that any “secret Series 13 filming” is a misunderstanding. I’ve seen speculation that the delay in filming is due to casting for 1 or more new companions and when that’s complete, they will announce them along with the start of filming. There’s also speculation that the show will wait to make those announcements until this season is over in early March

On a tangential note, Jodie and Chibnall will be attending the BBC Studios Showcase in mid February to talk about the show https://cultbox.co.uk/news/chris-chibnall-and-jodie-whittaker-to-participate-in-doctor-who-event-at-bbc-studios-showcase

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000fjf1

The BBC has a synopsis up for Episode 8, "The Haunting of Villa Diodati"

‘Nobody mention Frankenstein. Nobody interfere. Nobody snog Byron.’ Should be easy, right?

The Doctor and her gang arrive at the Villa Diodati at Lake Geneva in 1816 on the night that inspired Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein. The plan is to spend the evening soaking up the atmos in the presence of some literary greats, but the ghosts are all too real, and the Doctor is forced into a decision of earth-shattering proportions.

From Doctor Who Magazine as reported by others:

Episode 9, Part 1 of the 2-part season finale, is titled “Ascension of the Cybermen”.

Per Chibnall: “Ascension is set at the end of the great cyber war. This is a conflict that's reduced both the Cybermen and humanity to barely anything. It's the last remnants of the Cybermen against the last refugees of humanity in this corner of the universe."

Episode 10, Part 2 of the 2-part season finale, is titled “The Timeless Children” and will be 65 minutes

Chibnall reportedly said that viewers should make sure to watch Episode 10 live or as soon as they can

I’m digging it

Edited by DanaK

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https://cultbox.co.uk/general/doctor-who-magazine-reveals-titles-of-two-part-series-finale 

Cultbox has more from Chibnall from Doctor Who Magazine about the 2-part finale in the above link

 

The above is a really pretty still from Doctor Who Magazine (DWM) from the Shelley episode

Here are more tidbits on upcoming episodes from DWM (Issue 548, out now):

Regarding Sunday's episode Can You Hear Me?, Chibnall said in DWM that Ian Gelder's character is an entirely unrelated and separate character from his voice work for the Remnants in "The Ghost Monument" in Season 11. Jodie describes the episode as "really creepy, really scary". The characters are being forced by something out of this world to face their fears. The various comments from the cast and crew make it sound like it's going to be a very different episode from the usual Who show and with a deliberately different tone than usual

Regarding Episode 8, "The Haunting of Villa Diodati", which is the Shelley episode, Tosin describes it as an "old-school creepy episode". The weather is part of the story, as there had been a volcanic eruption in Indonesia, though Europeans weren't aware of it, that caused all kinds of bad weather and crazy storms. The episode is mostly set at night, so they used candlelight to light it and had to get different lenses (for the cameras I presume) to let more light in. The director and director of photography seemed to be happy with the results. Also, just for a fun factoid from the article, apparently Mary Shelley's group were a lot of forward-thinking people and they had stopped eating sugar because they were anti-slavery. They had really strong liberal values. Separately, we learn Jodie is scared of lighted candles (as part of being afraid of fire) and she's scared of ghost stories, as is Tosin. I'm not too keen about lighted candles either guys.

For Episode 9, "Ascension of the Cybermen", Chibnall says the Cybermen are relentless, single-minded and brutal. They are around every corner and they just won't stop. The humans are desperate and the Cybermen just keep going. The Doctor and her friends are all on the run from different threats. We head into the next episode (Episode 10) with the jeopardy of whether they are ever going to meet up again

For Episode 10, "The Timeless Children", Chibnall doesn't want to give up much information. But he says they've been laying the groundwork since the arrival of Jodie's Doctor. The Timeless Child is mentioned in Series 11's The Ghost Monument and the final episode of this series is where some of those questions get answered. Chibnall says it's a huge, emotional finale with lots of Cybermen and, as I previously posted, it runs for 65 minutes. Chibnall indicates that he was shooting for 60 minutes for Episode 10 but they went over that, as running times are sometimes dictated by the edit. Fortunately, the BBC was fine with it. Chibnall was asked whether Episode 10 would be as geographically epic as 9 or more condensed as a more personal struggle. He indicated it would be both epic and personal. This is what you are always looking for in a series finale, the way the big universe-threatening story impact on the personal lives of our characters

Jamie Magnus Stone directed both Episodes 9 and 10. He had previously directed Spyfall Part 1 and Praxeus. It's not entirely clear, but Episode 9 might be 1 hour based on Stone's comments about editing the 2 episodes

Chibnall says the narrative shape of Series 12 only becomes clear with "The Timeless Children". There's a deliberate journey. In Spyfall Part 1, they [the Doctor and her friends] are buoyant and are having fun. Where they are left at the end of the series is an entirely different place. Chibnall won't offer up any more clues about the episode, though he does end with, as I posted previously, saying to watch this episode live or as soon as you can

Also, this DWM issue has a good interview with Sacha Dhawan talking about his role as the Master and preparing for it. The issue also has two separate covers to choose from (probably at the newsstands only though), one with Jodie and one with Sacha

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2020/dw-ian-steve?ns_campaign=bbc_press_office&ns_linkname=corporate&ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter

The BBC has announced that Ian McElhinney (Rogue One, The Fall, Game of Thrones) and Steve Toussaint (Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time, Judge Dredd, The Mutant Chronicles) are set to guest in the 2-part finale

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37 minutes ago, Rhetorica said:

I just read this speculation about Ruth. Perhaps some of you long time Who fans could respond...

https://screenrant.com/new-doctor-who-ruth-clues/

I'm honestly not sure what they are implying there. That Ruth is secretly the real Eighth Doctor? We saw Seven regenerate into Eight on-screen, there's no gap there. 

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Here are a couple of tidbits from Chibnall's Production Notes column from the current issue of Doctor Who Magazine, where he talks mostly about post-production for the last few episodes of the season

- He describes composer Segun Akinola's score for Episode 10 as "epic and beautiful"

- He mentions a 10 second next-time trailer for either Episode 10 or at the end of episode 10; it's not quite clear from the context which he means. If it's at the end of the episode, then it would mean it's for the special that comes after the series at some point. It was pointed out elsewhere that Series 11's finale showed a 10-second next-time trailer for Resolution, so it's probably the same here

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4 hours ago, Rhetorica said:

I just read this speculation about Ruth. Perhaps some of you long time Who fans could respond...

https://screenrant.com/new-doctor-who-ruth-clues/

Not an olde-Who expert but the VW sign is prominent in the car drive to the lighthouse, (Two Time Lords in a VW -Roaming? - hi Gabriella!) I assumed they used a car instead of the TARDIS in order to emphasize the irony of the situation plus, it allows equal framing of both characters in one shot. Was the license plate 2800 -IF? (old "Paul is dead" joke, sorry)

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13 hours ago, Llywela said:

I'm honestly not sure what they are implying there. That Ruth is secretly the real Eighth Doctor? We saw Seven regenerate into Eight on-screen, there's no gap there. 

As someone who has been hoping they'd get Paul McGann to come on and do some episodes, I'd be kind of mad if Ruth is somehow meant to replace him. On the other hand, if she's from another timeline (not really sure how that would work in the Doctor Who framework, but I guess it was done with the Valeyard?)...then maybe she diverges at the 8th Doctor and they could both be the 8th and we can FINALLY get Paul McGann to be on the show as his Doctor to sort it out. That would be cool. 

I don't even particularly enjoy the movie with his Doctor, but I did like some of the novels with him and would love to see him turn up with on the show proper. 

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The problems with the movie were script-based though (well, that and the crew couldn't build scenery fast enough to keep up with Eric Roberts chewing it). McGann was certainly a worthy actor for the role. It'd be neat to have him team up with Jodie sometime.

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On 2/7/2020 at 5:25 AM, Llywela said:

I'm honestly not sure what they are implying there. That Ruth is secretly the real Eighth Doctor? We saw Seven regenerate into Eight on-screen, there's no gap there. 

I hope not! I don't want to take anything away from Paul McGann. He does audios for goodness sake! Now are those going to be all wrong? 

On 2/7/2020 at 7:16 PM, Jenniferbug said:

As someone who has been hoping they'd get Paul McGann to come on and do some episodes, I'd be kind of mad if Ruth is somehow meant to replace him. On the other hand, if she's from another timeline (not really sure how that would work in the Doctor Who framework, but I guess it was done with the Valeyard?)...then maybe she diverges at the 8th Doctor and they could both be the 8th and we can FINALLY get Paul McGann to be on the show as his Doctor to sort it out. That would be cool. 

I don't even particularly enjoy the movie with his Doctor, but I did like some of the novels with him and would love to see him turn up with on the show proper. 

He is a wonderful Doctor and I don't want ANYTHING taken away from him! Like you, I always wish we could see him on the show. 

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On 2/6/2020 at 4:28 AM, DanaK said:

For Episode 10, "The Timeless Children", Chibnall doesn't want to give up much information. But he says they've been laying the groundwork since the arrival of Jodie's Doctor. The Timeless Child is mentioned in Series 11's The Ghost Monument and the final episode of this series is where some of those questions get answered. Chibnall says it's a huge, emotional finale with lots of Cybermen and, as I previously posted, it runs for 65 minutes. Chibnall indicates that he was shooting for 60 minutes for Episode 10 but they went over that, as running times are sometimes dictated by the edit. Fortunately, the BBC was fine with it. Chibnall was asked whether Episode 10 would be as geographically epic as 9 or more condensed as a more personal struggle. He indicated it would be both epic and personal. This is what you are always looking for in a series finale, the way the big universe-threatening story impact on the personal lives of our characters

This concerns me.  I really hope they are not going to have the Doctor not heed Jack's warning and bring back all the Cyberman.  They probably will and it would not surprise me if it involves one or more of the companions needing to be saved.

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1 minute ago, elle said:

This concerns me.  I really hope they are not going to have the Doctor not heed Jack's warning and bring back all the Cyberman.  They probably will and it would not surprise me if it involves one or more of the companions needing to be saved.

It wouldn’t surprise me if this happens because the Doctor has to make a very difficult decision, which results in bringing them back. The BBC synopsis for the Shelley episode, which comes this Sunday, indicates the Doctor has to make an earth-shattering decision, so it may happen there or at the beginning of Episode 9

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000frjp

The BBC has posted a synopsis and partial guest cast list for Episode 9, "Ascension of the Cybermen"

Synopsis:

The aftermath of the Great CyberWar. The Doctor arrives in the far future, intent on protecting the last of the human race from the deadly Cybermen. But in the face of such a relentless enemy, has she put her best friends at risk? What terrors lie hiding in the depths of space, and what is Ko Sharmus?

Partial guest cast:

Ravio - Julie Graham

Ashad - Patrick O'Kane

Feekat - Steve Toussaint

Written by Chris Chibnall

Directed by Jamie Magnus Stone

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2 hours ago, Rhetorica said:

This is speculation. Again, I would like to know what long time viewers think of this scenario.

Thanks.

https://screenrant.com/doctor-who-season-12-timeless-child-tardis-create-theory/

Chibnall has confounded me since Spyfall Part 2 at least in regards to what kind of arc he's willing to go with, so I'm reluctant to say anything is off the table. However, I think that article is a little too willing to say certain things are a certainty just because we saw something in a certain way on screen. Basically, who knows?

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I’m seeing from 2 different Twitter accounts (and a Gallifrey Base forum member) from people attending the Gallifrey One Doctor Who con that during a Tales from the Backlot session for Doctor Who a little earlier today that at least one Who producer said Series 13 starts filming in September of this year. This is a few months later than the possible May start that Jodie reportedly said they might be starting a few months ago. I’m working on further confirming the info. The Gallifrey Base forum member said he was moderating the panel when he said one or more panel members stated it. In my view and of others I’ve seen, this strongly suggests a Fall/Autumn 2021 start date for broadcast of Series 13, as they would likely be done in July of next year. There is also the thinking that the special that has already been filmed will be shown Christmas this year or New Years Day 2021

ETA: Someone tweeted that the info came directly from Who producer Tracie Simpson. The Gallifrey Base forum member confirmed on the forum it was her

ETA2: Producer Simpson also said as part of talking about S13, according to one of the witnesses, “this will be Jodie’s third, this will be Chris’s [producer Chibnall] third”, meaning series, so they are both set for S13. Nothing was apparently said about companions

Edited by DanaK

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https://ew.com/tv/2020/02/19/doctor-who-finale-preview-chris-chibnall/

Chibnall talks to Entertainment Weekly about the 2 Part finale and teases Episode 10 will leave "people feeling wrung out and possibly a little bit open-mouthed"

Chibnall: "I’m going to do classic British understatement here: [The Timeless Children] a relatively seismic episode for the Doctor, and for the show. You will get some answers, but you will also be left with a whole load of new questions in true Doctor Who style.”

Given we don't really know much about Episode 10, I'm guessing the Cybermen War will be resolved early or midway in E10, possibly with the Master's help and maybe help from RuthDoc, and the last half or the last few minutes will be spent on issues with the Timeless Child, the Master, and Ruth, but won't be resolved this season

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000g09m

The BBC has released the synopsis for the finale of Series 12, Episode 10 "The Timeless Children":

"In the epic and emotional series finale, the Cybermen are on the march. As the last remaining humans are ruthlessly hunted down, Graham, Ryan and Yaz face a terrifying fight to survive. Civilisations fall. Others rise anew. Lies are exposed, truths are revealed, battles are fought, and for the Doctor — trapped and alone — nothing will ever be the same again."

Note that the link has the episode at 65 minutes in length, starting at 6:50 on the BBC (will be the usual 8pm ET on BBCAmerica). I do find it strange that it starts at 6:50 instead of 6:55.

Edited by DanaK

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6 hours ago, DanaK said:

As announced at the end of the finale, there will be a holiday special titled "Revolution of the Daleks". No specific date given at this time, either whether it's Christmas or New Years Day

ETA: The BBC press release https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/entries/e78005d7-9026-4bf3-b22e-8c8134a5918d

Revolution of the Daleks, really? Man, as if it wasn't hard enough already to avoid getting muddled up with Resurrection, Revelation and Remembrance of the Daleks!

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Just now, Llywela said:

Revolution of the Daleks, really? Man, as if it wasn't hard enough already to avoid getting muddled up with Resurrection, Revelation and Remembrance of the Daleks!

What is with all the "Rs" in these Dalek titles? And of course Resolution

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3 minutes ago, DanaK said:

What is with all the "Rs" in these Dalek titles? And of course Resolution

See, there's already so many Rs I overlooked one - they really need to pick another letter in future before I get even more confused! 

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Point of order: when have the Cybermen ever been in contention with the Time Lords as a culture rather than just the Doctor in particular? I thought their wars were on more modest terms, against human space empires and such. I thought the Time War with the Daleks was the only instance where Gallifrey broke their non-intervention policy in a big way, and that was because the Daleks had eventually developed technology advanced enough to fight them more or less on their own terms.

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4 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

Point of order: when have the Cybermen ever been in contention with the Time Lords as a culture rather than just the Doctor in particular? I thought their wars were on more modest terms, against human space empires and such. I thought the Time War with the Daleks was the only instance where Gallifrey broke their non-intervention policy in a big way, and that was because the Daleks had eventually developed technology advanced enough to fight them more or less on their own terms.

I don't recall the Cybermen ever going to war with the Time Lords. Their battles have tended to be, as you say, focused elsewhere.

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I could see Yaz staying because she really seems to have taken to the new purpose the Doctor has given her. It's bigger than being a police officer in small town. That's why I hope if Jack is in next season he wants to restart Torchwood and have Yaz join him. 

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23 hours ago, DanaK said:

The Mirror is claiming that Brad and Tosin are leaving and Mandip is staying. They will be last seen in the special, which has already been filmed https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/bradley-walsh-set-sensationally-quit-21618111

If accurate, it’s not really a surprise as Tosin has his new series and Brad is very busy

This has reportedly been confirmed by Zoe Ball on BBC Radio

 

Radio Times is reporting that Walsh and Cole will be leaving as regular cast members but they may return sporadically https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2020-03-03/doctor-who-bradley-walsh-tosin-cole-leaving/

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10 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I liked Graham the most. Phooey. 

I did too, at least for Series 11 and part of 12. But his increasingly wacky Cockney jokes and sayings were beginning to wear. I like Yaz quite a bit and another year might give her space to shine. Hopefully Chibnall won't crowd the Tardis with a bunch of other companions. I think 1 additional one will be sufficient

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4 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I liked Graham the most. Phooey. 

Graham gets the best lines, but his character has been pretty static, as has Ryan. Of the three, Yaz has shown the most promise even while being crowded out. If the other two leave, maybe she'll get a bit more focus and development.

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57 minutes ago, Llywela said:

Graham gets the best lines, but his character has been pretty static, as has Ryan. Of the three, Yaz has shown the most promise even while being crowded out. If the other two leave, maybe she'll get a bit more focus and development.

She seems to be the one getting the most "companion" write.

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