S04.E05: Escape from the Happy Place

[AudienceofOne]

 

[AudienceofOne]

I've always liked the idea of Quentin/ Elliot but I'm not entirely sure me liking Quentin/Elliot comes from a place of narrative coherence and a belief they'd make a great couple or an utterly shallow response to how hot their hookup scene was. 

That being said, I really like the way the show has dealt with the whole issue especially in acknowledging that Q is not gay or really bi but just loves Elliot. Q having the courage to be honest about his feelings was exceptionally brave and Elliot having that as his moment of greatest regret was so poignant. A succession of images of him being a coward culminating in his ultimate cowardice. And yet Elliot is still utterly sympathetic because of his self-awareness. 

The strength of the writing in this show continually astounds and impresses me - especially since this is season 4.

On 2/22/2019 at 12:58 PM, AuntieMame said:

Oh poor Q and Elliot in their love scene. It was brilliant though. This show gets complex emotions right. It even manages to look at the intersection of individual emotion and socially conditioned behavior. All while being entertaining and funny. The Magicians is setting the writing bar higher than it knows. 

I completely agree.

On 2/22/2019 at 6:17 PM, GaT said:

It sounds like I'm in the minority on this, but I am so tired of this "the monster is in Elliot" plot. End the damn thing already, put magic back & come up with something interesting. Even Margo is boring me, so they really need to move this along.

Unfortunately for you, I suspect this season will be about them building monster Elliot's body to get Elliot back and season 5 will be about them dealing with the aftermath of that decision.

Quote

Im not sure how I feel about Alice. Somehow the character has never quite connected for me and her betrayal last season was pretty big. Nor do I feel like we’ve ever gotten a full explanation regarding Alice’s betrayal. I’m not sure how she was supposed to benefit. I feel for her yet understand the doubts the rest of the circle feel. 

Alice's betrayal was no worse than Julia's 15 other betrayals and she's bouncing around as part of the group so I don't see why Alice wouldn't be forgiven. Especially since Julia's betrayals were utterly self-serving while Alice only betrayed them to save Quentin. Which is to say, everyone has done the wrong thing at some point and forgiveness is part of what the show is about. I'll be pretty bloody pissed if Alice is the only one who get punished - again. Frankly, I don't know why the character remains the writers' punching bag. 

On the subjects of characters - where the hell is Original Recipe Penny? 

[ProudMary]

44 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

On the subjects of characters - where the hell is Original Recipe Penny? 

Spoiler

We should find out next week as both Penny 23 and Penny 40 appeared in a scene together in the trailer for the upcoming episode.  I can't wait!

[txvoodoo]

On 2/20/2019 at 9:09 PM, chrisvee said:

OMG is my ship a real thing???

Honest to god, I've been sad all season because of Elliot not being Elliot, because I missed him so much.

To get real Elliot back, and then Q/E? Icing on the cake!!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I was already holding my breath during the Eliot/Eliot/Quentin scene where we saw the conversation Q&E had after their 50 years together. I love that Quentin was the one who suggested having a relationship, but when current Eliot talked to him, I just went awwwwwww.

But as soon as the door appeared behind them, I gasped because I was afraid that we were going to get a Buffy/Angel Romeo/Juliet ("the Claire Danes one" - Kelly Kapoor) death where Eliot finally returned two seconds before he was killed.

RIP Shoshanna - I wish you'd been around for longer but you were loyal to Julia during your brief time with her.

Margo - always fierce as fuck. I know that she is truly dedicated to ruling Fillory but I think a part of her has  doubled down on that as a tribute to Eliot now that she thinks he's dead. I also think part of it is keeping herself busy because, as she said to Fen, she can't allow herself to mourn or she'll never stop.

When they said the animals weren't talking anymore, it made me think of Narnia!

Edited February 24, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ha, I need a list of all the things Eliot wrote on the blackboard. Some of them such as "Mom walked in (jerk off)" are self explanatory but I need more info on the vaguer ones like "dog incident #2." My favorite one was "Creed concert." FOR SHAME, ELIOT.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clip:

[chrisvee]

After the 2nd or 3rd or maybe 10th (don’t judge me) rewatch did I see that Eliot’s nose is bleeding when he returns to the happy place?

[festivus]

17 hours ago, chrisvee said:

After the 2nd or 3rd or maybe 10th (don’t judge me) rewatch did I see that Eliot’s nose is bleeding when he returns to the happy place?

I watched it again and I couldn't see anything but I know some people at another site said they saw it so I don't know?

[iMonrey]

Quote

Yeah but kings and queens of Fillory get one of each, a husband and a wife. 😉

Eliot is no longer King in Fillory. Nor are Quentin and Alice. They were deposed by the mob. Then Fillory had an election and Margo won (with the support of the talking animal community) so she is currently the only ruler of Fillory.

Quote

 I wonder whether they had Eliot & Q's relationship in mind from the start of the show or whether some of it ended up being chemistry-driven as they went down the line and recognized what they had. 

I know according to interviews the writers didn't envision this conversation when they shot "A Life in the Day" last season. This follow up was new footage shot this season - and you can tell that Jason Ralph is wearing a wig to approximate his hair length from last season. 

There's always been a closeness between Q and Eliot and the writers haven't shied away from it. But certainly this revelation that Q asked for something more is something they've come up with this season rather than something they had planned out since last season.

[chrisvee]

Based on the Vulture article, I’m thinking the writers have been heading towards exploring Queliot in all aspects for a while. They chose to make Eliot the Monster and they chose to make the monster obsessed with Quentin after giving us LitD which means to me that there is intention to have an emotional arc for Eliot in S4 and it’s tied to Quentin. I’m not arguing they had the plot mechanism worked out bc clearly they didn’t.

I also don’t think Queliot is endgame just because I’m not sure that’s even a concept that interests Sera Gamble. I do think she feels a strong sense of responsibility to represent same sex relationships well. So I am hopeful that we’ll get a good story.

i think it’s pretty apparent the actors thought the show would go here. 😁

Edited February 26, 2019 by chrisvee

[Delphi]

On 2/24/2019 at 6:50 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Ha, I need a list of all the things Eliot wrote on the blackboard. Some of them such as "Mom walked in (jerk off)" are self explanatory but I need more info on the vaguer ones like "dog incident #2." My favorite one was "Creed concert." FOR SHAME, ELIOT.

a (nearly) comprehensive list of things eliot waugh regrets:

http://ohmyohpioneer.tumblr.com/post/183051049970/a-nearly-comprehensive-list-of-things-eliot

[JTMacc99]

18 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Then Fillory had an election and Margo won (with the support of the talking animal community) so she is currently the only ruler of Fillory.

That bear had a lot of friends.

[rwlevin]

21 hours ago, festivus said:

I watched it again and I couldn't see anything but I know some people at another site said they saw it so I don't know?

I watched the episode again last night and his nose was definitely bleeding but it was from the right nostril which was on the far side so not that obvious.

This is definitely my favorite episode since A Life in the Day.

[TexasGal]

On 2/24/2019 at 5:50 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Ha, I need a list of all the things Eliot wrote on the blackboard. Some of them such as "Mom walked in (jerk off)" are self explanatory but I need more info on the vaguer ones like "dog incident #2." My favorite one was "Creed concert." FOR SHAME, ELIOT.

That was cracking me up too.  "Dog incident" and then in next column "Dog incident 2"

4 hours ago, Delphi said:

a (nearly) comprehensive list of things eliot waugh regrets:

http://ohmyohpioneer.tumblr.com/post/183051049970/a-nearly-comprehensive-list-of-things-eliot

"Unintentionally coming out to pastor"

"First swim lessons"

"Freshman football team"

God, I love this show!

[ProudMary]

5 hours ago, Delphi said:

a (nearly) comprehensive list of things eliot waugh regrets:

http://ohmyohpioneer.tumblr.com/post/183051049970/a-nearly-comprehensive-list-of-things-eliot

I expect Eliot's blackboard to have its own Twitter account any day now! 😅

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clip:

[chrisvee]

that clip just guts me every time — their eyes, the love ugh show you’re killing me 

[tennisgurl]

On 2/26/2019 at 7:31 AM, JTMacc99 said:

That bear had a lot of friends.

Humbledrum is a highly respected member of the talking animal community!

Knowing that Elliot and Quentin had this whole conversation right after A Day in the Life really puts a lot of their last season into a new perspective. Did the depression monster use Elliot supposedly rejecting him against him? Is that one of the reasons he wanted to disappear into the cave forever? 

[Unusual Suspect]

"Proof of concept" ... damn, those words shall haunt me. I loved Quentin and Eliot's life in Fillory, but expected it to be just a passing montage. I didn't expect them to go back to that moment. And that Quentin was willing ... I loved that scene.

[paramitch]

This is one of the best episodes of the show in its history, and I watched it twice in a row. Just so much poignance and humor. Elliot's Chalkboard of Regret! The Bleats of Despair! And Elliot's gorgeous moment of regret with Quentin!

And I made all-out pterodactyl noises when Quentin asked Elliot if they could try for real... and when Elliot realized he'd been too scared to do so... And then the kiss! There is a tenderness to Quentin and Elliot that I just think is so gorgeous, lovely and understated. HA and JR have insane chemistry.

Also, the actors on this show are so damn wonderful. When Margo is answering Fen about why she hasn't cried yet, Margo's lip is shaking in this beautiful subtle way... and then she gives this big, hard grin. It's so gorgeous and so sad. Summer is one of this show's unsung MVPs. 

On 2/20/2019 at 7:09 PM, chrisvee said:

OMG is my ship a real thing???

I always wait to watch MAGICIANS til the end, so that I can buy the whole show and then just luxuriate in the whole season. So here I am, LATE TO THE PARTY, but let's just say I screamed at the scene from LitD when Quentin asked Elliot to try for a real relationship.

On 2/20/2019 at 7:26 PM, tennisgurl said:

Oh my God, they are actually full stop going there!!!! I am both flailing, AND crying! Oh my God, Quentin asked Elliot if he wanted to give their relationship a try, and Elliot freaked out and said no! And its the moment he most regrets! Oh, I guess I didnt need a heart show, its alright for you to stomp on it!

You were not alone on this. I'm just sayin'. I shrieked in sheer joy.

On 2/21/2019 at 10:30 AM, festivus said:

I said to my son last night that Alice didn't close to the door to the poison room and surely that was going to come back to bite her. If Ol' Chris could get out it might take him a few weeks to die like it did Penny so he could still have time to fuck some shit up. I wasn't thinking about until I read on another board that Martin had put some runes on him so he couldn't die while he was being tortured. If those are still there and he's in there reading all the stuff the library thinks is too dangerous for anyone to see...

This is a really interesting observation, and I definitely could see this coming back to bite poor Alice in an entirely different way. It would certainly be like the show for Plover to return as an entirely new threat simply because Alice tried to punish him!

On 2/21/2019 at 3:53 PM, Jynnan tonnix said:

but as much as I've been shipping them all along, and would love to see them together, I don't think it could ever be a lifetime monogamous relationship as long as Q is primarily straight, and breaking up might be even more heartbreaking. 

Quentin may not be a 6 on the Kinsey scale, and may typically find himself more attracted to women than men, but the term "primarily straight" I think can be misleading and even culturally harmful. It's canon that Quentin is bisexual. He has slept with Elliot multiple times now, onscreen, with full agency. Just my feeling, I understand if YMMV. 

On 2/21/2019 at 5:41 PM, chrisvee said:

So...didn’t Quentin and Eliot have a monogamous relationship after Arielle’s death? For decades?  

Since last night’s ep aired, I’ve read a few interviews that the actors have given. And honestly, I realize how much I undervalued the impact of that experience on Quentin and Eliot’s interior landscape — not just in terms of how they relate to each other but in terms of the life experience they have now.  My goodness they raised a child! I really never thought this through before.

It was my impression that they were in a decades-long poly relationship -- Elliot, Quentin, and Arielle, Quentin's wife. They all appeared to live together and were definitely all shown to co-parent the kids.

On 2/21/2019 at 7:40 PM, chrisvee said:

HA and JR are very articulate about what they think those 50 years meant to their characters.

I am somewhat amazed the actors have given such thought to it but this is clearly to them the most important relationship in which their respective characters are involved. I honestly sort of blew right past it bc of all the plot plot plot.

I also have to point out on rewatch what a fantastic job I think JR does as Quentin. He has imbued the character with an essential sweetness that is lovely.

He has. I haaaated Quentin in the first book. Hated him. But although I grew to care about him by the end of the trilogy, I instantly adored Jason Ralph's Quentin. He was just so wonderfully cast, and I loved everything -- the hair, the insecurities -- JR brought this beautiful vulnerability to show-Quentin and I have loved him ever since.

On 2/21/2019 at 9:31 PM, diebartdie said:

Seems pretty obvious to me that Q is bisexual (even Elliot is slightly bisexual), not straight. Relatedly, when I watched "A life in a day", to my eyes (to my heart), Quinton and Elliot where lovers, then they added Arielle creating a triad. Just like bisexuality is real, polyamory is also very real.

Thank you. This was perfectly said. Agreed.

On 2/22/2019 at 5:08 AM, chrisvee said:

I thought that too. Although I wasn’t sure if it was fully sexual as well as romantic. 

I need to go read the ep discussion for LitD. I’m not 100% sure that I ever fully understood what those scenes were telling us — El seemed to push Q away after their sexual encounter and then they had that argument about ‘live your life here you know what I mean’ then Arielle joins them. I was also struck that the son didn’t hug El (when he left) who of course parented him twice as long as Arielle since she died when he was about five. The directing choice there annoyed me since it implied to me that he was Q’s son not El’s too.

HA and JR have mentioned in interviews that the scenes are longer which gave the actors much more understanding of the relationship. So I think there was MORE fullness to the relationship and that the montage required us to read between lines.

But tying it back to this ep, it seems perhaps El did a bit of the same thing — Q made the first move but El withheld a bit from him to protect himself.

Beautifully described. And I so wish we could have an extended version of that episode with the additional footage! (sigh)

I would agree that there were a few elements in LitD that were clumsily handled -- those you spotlight here especially (the slight disconnect of Eliot from the adult son). I did rewatch it again before posting here, though and I do think it was pretty clear that they were all together, a poly family.

On 2/22/2019 at 11:28 AM, chrisvee said:

Hopefully I am within forum rules to link. 🙂

Hale Appleman Ships Queliot As Hard As You Do

Jason Ralph San Diego Comic Con

Thank you so much! Just when I couldn't love either of them more... Lovely interviews.

On 2/22/2019 at 8:47 PM, The Companion said:

Agree. Q hooked up with Eliot and Margo before that episode. I feel like that is enough to establish the character is bi. I hate the talk of him being mostly straight or actually straight, etc. We have seen him in relationships with women and with Eliot. I remember a lot of discussion at the time of whether it was polyamory and it seemed pretty clear to me that it was at least something in that neighborhood. 

They are really good together. So much chemistry. I was actually hoping for A Life in the Day to reassert itself when Eliot resurfaced. I thought watching the monster with Q was hard in part because of their relationship otherwise. 

Thank you -- well said. 

On 2/23/2019 at 6:41 PM, AudienceofOne said:

That being said, I really like the way the show has dealt with the whole issue especially in acknowledging that Q is not gay or really bi but just loves Elliot.

I feel like these equivocations and attempts to quantify Quentin as "mostly straight," or "not gay or really bi, just loves Elliot" could be argued as edging into bi erasure territory. Quentin has slept with both men and women. By choice, with full agency. So Quentin is bisexual (although I believe he also has shades of demisexuality as well). And the show has doubled down on that here, again, and even taken it beyond sex and into actual romance, as Quentin asks Elliot for them to try for a real relationship.

And I love that. We see so few bisexual male/male pairings on television, especially positive ones, and I think Quentin is incredibly important representation in that respect. My favorite aspect to it is that Q has never treated it as a big deal, he's thankfully never had that traditionally presented moment of "gay panic" the morning after, etc. He slept with Eliot and accepted it as something he chose to do, each time.

I was thrilled the show took it a step further here and allowed Quentin the opportunity to envision a different future for himself. It was brave and believable that after fifty years of love and companionship with Elliot, that he might have an epiphany and want to take it to the next step. (Sorry about the soapbox!)

[The Companion]

29 minutes ago, paramitch said:

This is one of the best episodes of the show in its history, and I watched it twice in a row. Just so much poignance and humor. Elliot's Chalkboard of Regret! The Bleats of Despair! And Elliot's gorgeous moment of regret with Quentin!

And I made all-out pterodactyl noises when Quentin asked Elliot if they could try for real... and when Elliot realized he'd been too scared to do so... And then the kiss! There is a tenderness to Quentin and Elliot that I just think is so gorgeous, lovely and understated. HA and JR have insane chemistry.

Also, the actors on this show are so damn wonderful. When Margo is answering Fen about why she hasn't cried yet, Margo's lip is shaking in this beautiful subtle way... and then she gives this big, hard grin. It's so gorgeous and so sad. Summer is one of this show's unsung MVPs. 

I always wait to watch MAGICIANS til the end, so that I can buy the whole show and then just luxuriate in the whole season. So here I am, LATE TO THE PARTY, but let's just say I screamed at the scene from LitD when Quentin asked Elliot to try for a real relationship.

You were not alone on this. I'm just sayin'. I shrieked in sheer joy.

This is a really interesting observation, and I definitely could see this coming back to bite poor Alice in an entirely different way. It would certainly be like the show for Plover to return as an entirely new threat simply because Alice tried to punish him!

Quentin may not be a 6 on the Kinsey scale, and may typically find himself more attracted to women than men, but the term "primarily straight" I think can be misleading and even culturally harmful. It's canon that Quentin is bisexual. He has slept with Elliot multiple times now, onscreen, with full agency. Just my feeling, I understand if YMMV. 

It was my impression that they were in a decades-long poly relationship -- Elliot, Quentin, and Arielle, Quentin's wife. They all appeared to live together and were definitely all shown to co-parent the kids.

He has. I haaaated Quentin in the first book. Hated him. But although I grew to care about him by the end of the trilogy, I instantly adored Jason Ralph's Quentin. He was just so wonderfully cast, and I loved everything -- the hair, the insecurities -- JR brought this beautiful vulnerability to show-Quentin and I have loved him ever since.

Thank you. This was perfectly said. Agreed.

Beautifully described. And I so wish we could have an extended version of that episode with the additional footage! (sigh)

I would agree that there were a few elements in LitD that were clumsily handled -- those you spotlight here especially (the slight disconnect of Eliot from the adult son). I did rewatch it again before posting here, though and I do think it was pretty clear that they were all together, a poly family.

Thank you so much! Just when I couldn't love either of them more... Lovely interviews.

Thank you -- well said. 

I feel like these equivocations and attempts to quantify Quentin as "mostly straight," or "not gay or really bi, just loves Elliot" could be argued as edging into bi erasure territory. Quentin has slept with both men and women. By choice, with full agency. So Quentin is bisexual (although I believe he also has shades of demisexuality as well). And the show has doubled down on that here, again, and even taken it beyond sex and into actual romance, as Quentin asks Elliot for them to try for a real relationship.

And I love that. We see so few bisexual male/male pairings on television, especially positive ones, and I think Quentin is incredibly important representation in that respect. My favorite aspect to it is that Q has never treated it as a big deal, he's thankfully never had that traditionally presented moment of "gay panic" the morning after, etc. He slept with Eliot and accepted it as something he chose to do, each time.

I was thrilled the show took it a step further here and allowed Quentin the opportunity to envision a different future for himself. It was brave and believable that after fifty years of love and companionship with Elliot, that he might have an epiphany and want to take it to the next step. (Sorry about the soapbox!)

I agree with all of this. Not only is he bisexual, he seems pretty comfortable with his sexuality. There was no surprise when he woke up next to Eliot. There was no resistance to the idea of a long term relationship with Eliot. Describing him as "mostly straight" or "really straight" is a disservice to the character and reinforces this harmful idea that bisexual individuals are really just secretly straight or gay. I say it in a later thread, but I will say it here too. Quentin is a really great character because his sexuality is so consistent with his character. He is a person who has deep connections to a few people. I suspect, if pressed, he would describe himself as being attracted to the person/to someone's personality. 

[festivus]

23 minutes ago, paramitch said:

I feel like these equivocations and attempts to quantify Quentin as "mostly straight," or "not gay or really bi, just loves Elliot" could be argued as edging into bi erasure territory. Quentin has slept with both men and women. By choice, with full agency. So Quentin is bisexual (although I believe he also has shades of demisexuality as well). And the show has doubled down on that here, again, and even taken it beyond sex and into actual romance, as Quentin asks Elliot for them to try for a real relationship.

And I love that. We see so few bisexual male/male pairings on television, especially positive ones, and I think Quentin is incredibly important representation in that respect. My favorite aspect to it is that Q has never treated it as a big deal, he's thankfully never had that traditionally presented moment of "gay panic" the morning after, etc. He slept with Eliot and accepted it as something he chose to do, each time.

Quentin's sexuality is a hard one to label just going by what I've seen in the show, so I just use the term fluid for him. I think they keep it that way on purpose, the writers don't seem to want to be tied down with labels. I don't have a problem with whatever label one wants to use for Q, each person brings their own experience to it. I'll admit that the first time I read the books, I did not pick up on the fact that Quentin had any sexual feelings for Eliot, I thought it was more that he just wanted to be Eliot. That he admired him. I fully admit that romantic feelings are hard for me to pick up on sometimes, again probably because I'm bringing my own experience into what I'm reading or watching. It kinda needs to blared in my face, subtlety doesn't work on me. lol. I also didn't know the first time I read the books that Lev used Charles and Sebastian from Brideshead Revisited as a basis for Q and El. Even using the name Waugh for Eliot. I saw the movie they made of that book but I don't remember much about it. I need to try to track down the 1981 miniseries and watch that.

I like fluid because it accounts for how you can be different things at different stages of your life. It's the only word that I would ever be able to use for myself.

Whatever one wants to call him, I do agree with you that Quentin is important representation. 

[Jynnan tonnix]

7 hours ago, paramitch said:

Spoiler

Quentin may not be a 6 on the Kinsey scale, and may typically find himself more attracted to women than men, but the term "primarily straight" I think can be misleading and even culturally harmful. It's canon that Quentin is bisexual. He has slept with Elliot multiple times now, onscreen, with full agency. Just my feeling, I understand if YMMV. 

It was my impression that they were in a decades-long poly relationship -- Elliot, Quentin, and Arielle, Quentin's wife. They all appeared to live together and were definitely all shown to co-parent the kids.

I feel like these equivocations and attempts to quantify Quentin as "mostly straight," or "not gay or really bi, just loves Elliot" could be argued as edging into bi erasure territory. Quentin has slept with both men and women. By choice, with full agency. So Quentin is bisexual (although I believe he also has shades of demisexuality as well). And the show has doubled down on that here, again, and even taken it beyond sex and into actual romance, as Quentin asks Elliot for them to try for a real relationship.

And I love that. We see so few bisexual male/male pairings on television, especially positive ones, and I think Quentin is incredibly important representation in that respect. My favorite aspect to it is that Q has never treated it as a big deal, he's thankfully never had that traditionally presented moment of "gay panic" the morning after, etc. He slept with Eliot and accepted it as something he chose to do, each time.

Spoiler

I don't disagree with what you have said, but, maybe because I'm probably unavoidably a bit old-school. I'm 60, so not ancient, but at the age where keeping up with current mores and definitions sometimes makes my head spin a bit.

I'm not against people being bi in the least. I'm probably a little way up that scale myself, though always identified as straight, never having had the chance or real inclination to find out otherwise. I definitely see sexuality as a real continuum, but not sure where the harm is in saying "primarily straight" if, in fact, that's what one is.

To my mind, they kept a lot of the relationship details purposefully a bit vague. Not necessarily out of  some sort of fear of "going there" with bi relationships, but maybe as more of a way to ease into them a bit, for some members of the audience who still needed a nudge to get comfortable with the concept. Having said that, I still HATE the fact that Quentin's demise makes further exploration of that relationship impossible. Still, it's also possible that enough people who may not have initially been comfortable with it might feel cheated enough that it will be easier for them to accept next time. Who knows whether the writers thought that much ahead, but, as I said, in my mind it was all handled with a lot of subtlety and beauty.

I'm a little confused on your statement that Quentin " has slept with Elliot multiple times now, onscreen, with full agency". As far as I recall, there was the one threesome, in which everyone was too drunk to necessarily have full awareness of the choices they were making, and the one kiss, which, though it presumably led to more, was never explicitly confirmed (though strongly suggested). They also would have presumably continued a physical relationship to whatever extent at least until Ariel came along. I don't recall anything really being hinted about polyamory - it's quite possible, but then again we don't know how Ariel would have felt about it, and I doubt it would have continued had she not been willing. They certainly did all co-parent Quentin's son, and it's quite possible that the physical relationship between El and Q might have continued after her death, but, again, this is not explicitly stated, so (unless I missed something) each viewer can sort of fill in the blanks to whatever extent they are comfortable with. Which is another reason I think it was all very sensitively handled. It was all clearly left open enough that any level of relationship was perfectly possible without pushing any particular scenario. Maybe that could be seen as cowardice in one light, but I don't see why we really need to know.

I do agree with you, and also love the fact that Quentin took the whole relationship very much at face value with no fear, and obviously had a deep love for Eliot as well, even it never culminated in a sexual relationship in their normal timeline. But I'm still not sure where all these instances of them sleeping together are not just left to the viewer to fill in to their own comfort level.

Ignore the spoiler tag in the quoted section - I put it in the wrong place and can't figure out how to undo it. Also, I put my entire (long) response in the spoiler box since I wasn't sure which bits I might have mentioned came after this episode, so better safe than sorry.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Jynnan tonnix

[festivus]

@Jynnan tonnix I see some parts of your post you should spoiler tag because they're from episodes past this one. 😊 Not trying to be a mod, just don't want someone that hasn't watched the whole season to see them.

Here's an article I like about sexual fluidity that explains better than I ever could why I like the term.

I've always felt like the writers didn't use labels for their characters because they wanted different types of people to be able to identify with the same character. Or maybe they're just lazy and don't want the responsibility that comes with that kind of focused story. IDK honestly.

There's not a label that fits me but I do understand other people's use of them. I think a person should be able to label themselves as whatever they want. Or not. I have no problem with people saying Quentin is bi, but the character himself has never used the term so I don't think people having a different label for him is bi-erasure. As always, YMMV.

Edited April 22, 2019 by festivus

[Jynnan tonnix]

10 minutes ago, festivus said:

@Jynnan tonnix I see some parts of your post you should spoiler tag because they're from episodes past this one.

Here's an article I like about sexual fluidity that explains better than I ever could why I like the term.

I've always felt like the writers didn't use labels for their characters because they wanted different types of people to be able to identify with the same character. Or maybe they're just lazy and don't want the responsibility that comes with that kind of focused story. IDK honestly.

Sorry. Thanks for the heads up. I put the whole thing in the box since I wasn't sure what I might have mentioned from which specific episode. They run together a bit in my head after a while, and would probably have ended up being read by half the people here before I sorted it all out.

[festivus]

I meant what happened in the last episode mostly. Big spoiler!