S05.E14: Cause and XS

[BeautifulFlower]

10 hours ago, Trini said:

Nitpicks:

• Who is the sicko at Jitters Corporate that’s naming drinks after murderous villains??
• And when is Vibe getting his drink? COME ON!
• How did Cicada know that Ralph was Elongated Man?
• Nora, Cisco, and Ralph’s powers should have been negated every time they were with Cicada on that rooftop - like previous encounters.

Maybe Cicada might be competent enough to realize that just wearing an eye mask doesn't really conceal your identity. I always felt this in comics and tv. How does wearing a mask around your eyes conceal your identity? People should still recognize you. Its why I can never understand why people can't recognize Clark and Kara without their glasses. That just makes the people around you dumb

You know what? People should recognize Caitlin too.

[VCRTracking]

51 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Maybe Cicada might be competent enough to realize that just wearing an eye mask doesn't really conceal your identity. I always felt this in comics and tv. How does wearing a mask around your eyes conceal your identity? People should still recognize you. Its why I can never understand why people can't recognize Clark and Kara without their glasses. That just makes the people around you dumb

You know what? People should recognize Caitlin too.

It's more effective at concealing his identity and it's better than seeing that ridiculous scowl Chris Klein has constantly when it's off!

Edited February 13, 2019 by VCRTracking

[BeautifulFlower]

I know in the previously they showed Nora saying she can rewinding time, but that was not being displayed in this episode. Other people said she reversed time, but I disagree. What I saw was Nora travelling back in time. 

[SimoneS]

40 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I know in the previously they showed Nora saying she can rewinding time, but that was not being displayed in this episode. Other people said she reversed time, but I disagree. What I saw was Nora travelling back in time. 

I think the show gave Nora the power to rewind time i.e., she was able to go back to a certain point without having to open a portal to time travel like she and Barry usually do when they travel to the past and the future. It is the ability to use just a little of the Speed Force or use just the edge of it without actually entering it, hence why time wraiths didn't come after Nora for abusing it. Of course, this is my interpretation of it based on what I know about The Flash powers. I am probably giving the show too much credit here. Ha.

Edited February 13, 2019 by SimoneS

[Trini]

6 hours ago, steelyis said:

I like Groundhog Day episodes.

No, I love Groundhog Day episodes! Time loops are my jam, okay? They're a surefire recipe for fun, wacky, off-the-wall shenanigans.

Cause and XS was not fun by any stretch of the imagination. It actually made time loops boring, and I didn't think that was possible. 

I enjoyed it more than you did, but I do think they could have done more with the concept. They could have shown more of the loops; they only really showed five. And showed the different ways she tried to change the outcomes.

Another nitpick: Why did it have to be Sherloque to suggest using the Speed Force to finish the cure? Since when is he an expert on the Speed Force? It was just annoying to me when there were two speedsters in the room, plus Cisco and Caitllin who having been dealing with it for years.

[ottoDbusdriver]

13 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I know in the previously they showed Nora saying she can rewinding time, but that was not being displayed in this episode. Other people said she reversed time, but I disagree. What I saw was Nora travelling back in time. 

12 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I think the show gave Nora the power to rewind time i.e., she was able to go back to a certain point without having to open a portal to time travel like she and Barry usually do when they travel to the past and the future. It is the ability to use just a little of the Speed Force or use just the edge of it without actually entering it, hence why time wraiths didn't come after Nora for abusing it. Of course, this is my interpretation of it based on what I know about The Flash powers. I am probably giving the show too much credit here. Ha.

I'm definitely leaning towards rewinding time because there is one scene during the first time she travels back to Starlabs -- Nora/XS is running down the street past a couple of kids (a girl and a boy).  The girl was holding 1 red balloon and a string and as Nora ran past a red balloon reassembled itself on top of the string from the boy popping the balloon with a pin.

Then in the next edit, you see a teen on a scooter moving backwards and a tractor-trailer moving backwards.

And yeah, Nora saw the dagger incoming on the rooftop and could have easily moved any member of Team Flash out of the way, preventing many a death.

Edited February 14, 2019 by ottoDbusdriver

[VCRTracking]

Ironically I had to rewind the scene a few times to understand what happened! So Nora reverses time while she moves forward? And that's why Cisco, KF and Ralph move back in time as well as the dagger and Nora pushes Cicado in it's path? Is that right?

[Trini]

53 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

Ironically I had to rewind the scene a few times to understand what happened! So Nora reverses time while she moves forward? And that's why Cisco, KF and Ralph move back in time as well as the dagger and Nora pushes Cicado in it's path? Is that right?

Yes, I think that's it.

[SimoneS]

21 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Ironically I had to rewind the scene a few times to understand what happened! So Nora reverses time while she moves forward? And that's why Cisco, KF and Ralph move back in time as well as the dagger and Nora pushes Cicado in it's path? Is that right?

Exactly right! In the final confrontation with Cicada, Nora simply reversed time very slowly unlike the previous times when she ran as fast as she could. That way the daggar reversed before hitting Ralph,Cisco, and KF reversed back to safety through one of the breaches, as Nora used the breaches to get to Cicada.

I thought it was a cool new power for us to see Nora use, but here and on reddit there was a lot of confusion so now I think the show didn't do a good explaining how it worked and how they were able to use it to stop Cicada from killing one of them. There was probably too much going on in the final roof scene. They probably should have broken down the plan in Star Labs for the audience first.

While Barry is right that Nora shouldn't abuse her ability to rewind time, I think that it can be very useful. Think Galaxy Quest, where everyone survives because they are able to rewind time for 13 seconds. Now I think about it, I wonder if it will come into play when they finally confront Thawne like HR's disguise device did or if it is a one time thing.

Edited February 14, 2019 by SimoneS

[BeautifulFlower]

14 hours ago, Trini said:

I enjoyed it more than you did, but I do think they could have done more with the concept. They could have shown more of the loops; they only really showed five. And showed the different ways she tried to change the outcomes.

Another nitpick: Why did it have to be Sherloque to suggest using the Speed Force to finish the cure? Since when is he an expert on the Speed Force? It was just annoying to me when there were two speedsters in the room, plus Cisco and Caitllin who having been dealing with it for years.

I don't consider Cisco and Caitlin experts either. Just because they've been watching Barry for years, doesn't make them experts. The people who should know everything about the speedforce are the speedsters. Cisco and Caitlin have never been in the speedforce to know how it operates. It's forced.

[adora721]

Why didn't Iris yell out to KF when she saw Orlin's dagger heading back to kill KF?

Why didn't Caitlin warn KF about Cicada's dagger this time like she did in 5x11 (she warned KF to duck)? Of course, Caitlin supposedly doesn't know what's happening when KF is in charge or vice versa, but that seems to be plot-specific and malleable. 

[BkWurm1]

On 2/12/2019 at 10:38 PM, tennisgurl said:

Yeah, people in Central City must have a really dark sense of humor. Isn't that like cutsy hipster coffee houses in our world calling their drinks stuff like The Dahmer or a grande Manson with extra sugar? 

I can kind of get naming a drink AFTER stopping a villain, but Cicada is too recent for people to be so blase about.  He's still on the loose, still targeting metas or anyone that gets in his way, still racking up the body count with the public lacking any knowledge that anyone is getting close to a solution.   Twisted.  

[BkWurm1]

I don't get why Barry or Nora didn't take the cure back thirty days, hide it somewhere and then pop to the present to retrieve it and poof, it's all ready, no need to wait even an hour.   With the way Nora was freaking out before Barry left (which also seemed over the top) I'm rather surprised she didn't suggest it or just take it and do it herself. 

Messing with the speed force to cure the cure seems like a bigger risk than going back in time for just a couple moments.  I'm sure there are places in Star Labs that no one has gone near in the last 30 days.  

Also, why does Iris NEED an office right now when all she has is a digital presence?   And yeah, grabbing and securing all the loved ones for an hour would have solved the someone dies problem pretty well.  I don't blame Nora since no one thought of that easy solution.  

And while Nora could have told people what was happening sooner, until she'd run each permutation and collected the data with all the variations that they then used to map their new plan, she'd be wasting time and emotional energy.  Personally I don't get why they don't arm themselves with weapons that wouldn't be deactivated every time they see Cicada.  In the time he wasted monologuing, zap, tranq dart or freeze ray or shoot a net at him or toss a flash grenade or Cisco makes another sonic weapon.   

The show's need to let this villain get away forces the show to dumb everyone down.  Not just Nora.  

Edited February 14, 2019 by BkWurm1

[Trini]

On 2/12/2019 at 11:00 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

And wasn't Ian's beverage a Cicada ? Which is even weirder.

'Enough caffeine to kill a metahuman!' *Jitters marketing team highfives each other*

[RobertDeSneero]

On 2/12/2019 at 11:08 PM, Misslindsey said:

I agree. I would add write Nora so she does not act like a 16 year old or actually have her be a teenager. I might actually let some of her behavior and stupidity slide a bit more if she was a teenager. I really just want her gone.

In Nora's time, millennial parents are unironically complaining about how their young adult children are less mature and responsible than they were at the same age.

On 2/13/2019 at 3:57 PM, BeautifulFlower said:

I know in the previously they showed Nora saying she can rewinding time, but that was not being displayed in this episode. Other people said she reversed time, but I disagree. What I saw was Nora travelling back in time. 

If she traveled back in time, she would run into her past self.  Rewinding time seems more accurate here.

[catrice2]

Another boring episode with Nora. I don't think this show can find a way back. 

[Cthulhudrew]

Oh, wow. I did not think it was possible, but Chris Klein has actually gotten worse as an actor as the season progresses. 

On the plus side, all the scenery chewing he's doing is probably healthier for him.

ETA: What a dull, trite, predictable episode. "All I have to do is be myself to get the girl?" "All I have to do is confide in my teammates and tell them how the villain does the exact same thing each and every time so that we can work together to stop him?" Hugs and smooshies all around, everyone!!!

I am so tired of watching Nora pout in every episode. And when she does that stiff arm walk when she's trying to portray a self-conscious (and apparently 25 going on 13 year old) girl.

On a positive note, TC is actually getting better at portraying an interesting Harrison Sherloque (even while getting worse at Thawne). If they'd shown Sherloque in this light all season, instead of getting overly cutesy with the unsubtle Sherlock Holmes and ex-wife gags, I'd have been much more interested in the character.

Edited February 15, 2019 by Cthulhudrew

[Cthulhudrew]

7 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

With the way Nora was freaking out before Barry left (which also seemed over the top) I'm rather surprised she didn't suggest it or just take it and do it herself. 

I agree; that was ridiculous. I thought they were going to explain it away by revealing that she had already begun rewinding time by that point and hence her panic, but no. Just over the top antics.

8 hours ago, adora721 said:

Why didn't Iris yell out to KF when she saw Orlin's dagger heading back to kill KF?

Why didn't Caitlin warn KF about Cicada's dagger this time like she did in 5x11 (she warned KF to duck)? Of course, Caitlin supposedly doesn't know what's happening when KF is in charge or vice versa, but that seems to be plot-specific and malleable. 

Or push her out of the way at super speed?

[Cthulhudrew]

On 2/13/2019 at 6:12 PM, VCRTracking said:

So Nora reverses time while she moves forward? And that's why Cisco, KF and Ralph move back in time as well as the dagger and Nora pushes Cicado in it's path? Is that right?

Also, I think she had to run through KF's frost blast in order to "slow" herself down to be able to do it. Again, not well explained, but that was my take on that scene and her thanks to the team at the end (and the quick cut to Caitlin when she noted their help in slowing her down and that maybe she could do it herself next time).

I'm not sure why she needed to grab Ralph's arm at all, though Cisco's vibe-hole was self-explanatory.

[Cthulhudrew]

On 2/12/2019 at 6:50 PM, ruby24 said:

And you know what- with the way he's been sleepwalking through this season, Grant Gustin...

(Emphasis mine).

He actually looked half asleep in that last scene with Nora, and I don't mean acting half-asleep; you could see the tiredness in his eyes and expression. I wondered if they'd dragged him out of bed to shoot or if he was on something.

[SimoneS]

Nora's fearful reaction to Barry leaving makes me wonder what Barry and Iris know about how she found out about her powers and who taught her what she knows. Opening a portal to time travel isn't something that a novice speedster would figure out on their own, yet Nora's knowledge about her powers is limited. These are things that I would expect Barry and Iris would have questions about.

[BeautifulFlower]

18 hours ago, adora721 said:

Why didn't Iris yell out to KF when she saw Orlin's dagger heading back to kill KF?

Why didn't Caitlin warn KF about Cicada's dagger this time like she did in 5x11 (she warned KF to duck)? Of course, Caitlin supposedly doesn't know what's happening when KF is in charge or vice versa, but that seems to be plot-specific and malleable. 

Nora saw the dagger herself and ducked, but didn't tell Killer Frost either.

[BeautifulFlower]

17 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Also, why does Iris NEED an office right now when all she has is a digital presence?   And yeah, grabbing and securing all the loved ones for an hour would have solved the someone dies problem pretty well.  I don't blame Nora since no one thought of that easy solution.  

Because she's starting up her own newspaper. Iris already has the website up and running. Once she gains some new readers, then she will start hiring staff. She has the office, because that's where the people will work. You can't start up a company like that and not have the office space. 

[sarthaz]

Dafuq? JPK is really bringing it on this show, and I love her performances, particularly in this episode. But none of the resolution made any damn sense. Nora and Cisco are talking and suddenly realize the solution is to look at her notes and change things? That's what she's been doing the whole episode! I love these types of episodes. Mystery Spot is one of TV's best hours. But this was garbage.

[Trini]

3 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Because she's starting up her own newspaper. Iris already has the website up and running. Once she gains some new readers, then she will start hiring staff. She has the office, because that's where the people will work. You can't start up a company like that and not have the office space. 

Even if it was just for herself, she'd still need office space. For working, storage, a place to take meetings; there's business stuff that happens offline, too. And it's just really nice that Iris has her own space unattached to STAR Labs.

-----

I know that it's been said already; but why is Nora trusting Eobard so much?? She knows he and Barry are enemies, does she really believe he wants to help save her father? According to Iris' future article, (which Nora should know all about) Reverse Flash was at least part of the reason he disappeared.

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, Trini said:

I know that it's been said already; but why is Nora trusting Eobard so much?? She knows he and Barry are enemies, does she really believe he wants to help save her father? According to Iris' future article, (which Nora should know all about) Reverse Flash was at least part of the reason he disappeared.

Eobard can be a charismatic guy when he wants to. Also, apparently neither Iris nor the Flash Museum nor the public record revealed to Nora that Eobard murdered her grandmother and framed her grandfather. Also, it's been implied that Eobard was the one who revealed to Nora that she'd been chipped to turn off her speed and taught her how to use it. So she could have been more inclined to trust him than she otherwise would be.

I don't know if the future article implies that RF was linked to Barry's disappearance, though.

Clearly RF monitored it as an important part of the timeline, but that's not to say he helped bring the disappearance along.

[SimoneS]

3 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I don't know if the future article implies that RF was linked to Barry's disappearance, though.

Iris' future article states that Barry was fighting the Reverse Flash when they both disappeared so Nora knows. On top of which Thawne is imprisoned in Iron Heights in her time so she knows he is a criminal.

[Trini]

19 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Eobard can be a charismatic guy when he wants to. Also, apparently neither Iris nor the Flash Museum nor the public record revealed to Nora that Eobard murdered her grandmother and framed her grandfather. Also, it's been implied that Eobard was the one who revealed to Nora that she'd been chipped to turn off her speed and taught her how to use it. So she could have been more inclined to trust him than she otherwise would be.

I get all that, BUT STILL. And now she's on better terms with her parents, and also knows a few other heroes, so why not go to them instead? Be smarter, Nora!

[SimoneS]

5 minutes ago, Trini said:

I get all that, BUT STILL. And now she's on better terms with her parents, and also knows a few other heroes, so why not go to them instead? Be smarter, Nora!

The only thing I can think is that Nora sincerely believes Thawne when he says that he is the only speedster who knows what to do change the timeline and save Barry. Now why she thinks he would be willing to do so to help Barry is beyond me, but that is all I have got.

Edited February 15, 2019 by SimoneS

[Chicago Redshirt]

12 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

The only thing I can think is that Nora sincerely believes Thawne when he says that he is the only speedster who knows what to do change the timeline and save Barry. Now why she thinks he would be willing to do so to help Barry is beyond me, but that is all I have got.

Thanks for pointing out about the newspaper. I hadn't realized that there apparently is a full story there.

Since Barry and RF's disappearances are linked, she could believe that it's in RF's self-interest to avoid having Barry disappear, and thus having to disappear himself.

[Trini]

3 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Thanks for pointing out about the newspaper. I hadn't realized that there apparently is a full story there.

The show hasn't actually addressed the content (so even without time shenanigans it could change), but from screencaps you can read some of the article.

[SimoneS]

25 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Thanks for pointing out about the newspaper. I hadn't realized that there apparently is a full story there.

If you want to read the full article, do a google search. Several people have reproduced it. It is a pretty detailed account of Barry's disappearance.

Edited February 15, 2019 by SimoneS

[BeautifulFlower]

3 hours ago, Trini said:

Even if it was just for herself, she'd still need office space. For working, storage, a place to take meetings; there's business stuff that happens offline, too. And it's just really nice that Iris has her own space unattached to STAR Labs.

-----

I know that it's been said already; but why is Nora trusting Eobard so much?? She knows he and Barry are enemies, does she really believe he wants to help save her father? According to Iris' future article, (which Nora should know all about) Reverse Flash was at least part of the reason he disappeared.

I also like to add that the office was probably cheaper than the ones she possibly looked at. Iris had to jump on the opportunity fast or else she would've had to continue looking.

[immortalfrieza]

On 2/13/2019 at 11:29 AM, steelyis said:

If Nora had time to avoid Cicada's dagger, she had time to push or super speed Killer Frost out of the way. Cicada's dagger is slower than a bullet, so why isn't Nora running the fucking Boston Marathon around it three times before it hits anybody?

The same reason that Barry can run fast enough to make a nuclear explosion look like it's standing still for an hour yet can't use that same speed to effortlessly defeat any villains he comes across. It's because if either of them did any given episode would be over in 5 minutes. It's the reason I didn't mind the fact that the Big Bads of the first 3 seasons were evil speedsters, at least then I didn't spend each episode constantly thinking that Barry could defeat the Big Bad in literally less than 2 seconds if that.

In fact, I'd love to see an episode about another good guy speedster who spends most of the episode effortlessly defeating one villain after another, all the while lecturing Barry about how easily he could be beating villains if he used his powers at even a fraction of what he's been shown to be capable of.

I feel like they should at least massively depower Barry to roughly season 1 levels sometime in the near future and keep him that way, it would make everything a lot more bearable.

On 2/14/2019 at 4:18 PM, BkWurm1 said:

And while Nora could have told people what was happening sooner, until she'd run each permutation and collected the data with all the variations that they then used to map their new plan, she'd be wasting time and emotional energy.

The real reason is because if Nora did tell Team Flash about Cicada after at most the first 1 or 2 times she went back, then the episode would've been over, or at least with how bad the writers are they wouldn't have had the competence to make the episode last longer. It would have been easy enough to do and still have the episode go for as long as it did. If Nora told the team even if Nora subsequently failed a few more times she would have had Team Flash around to come up with ideas and as backup for the fight making it much much more likely she'd succeed and much much sooner than she did.

On 2/14/2019 at 4:18 PM, BkWurm1 said:

 The show's need to let this villain get away forces the show to dumb everyone down.  Not just Nora.  

These DC superhero shows are TERRIBLE at making season long Big Bads, the reason being all of them could have been defeated at least a half a dozen times throughout the season had the protagonists simply not been total idiots or even outright LET them escape. This isn't the first time they let Cicada get away when they very easily could have gotten him this season and I doubt it'll be the last. Every single person Cicada kills after this is going to be the direct fault of Team Flash's stupidity.

Edited February 16, 2019 by immortalfrieza

[Trini]

4 hours ago, immortalfrieza said:

The real reason is because if Nora did tell Team Flash about Cicada after at most the first 1 or 2 times she went back, then the episode would've been over, or at least with how bad the writers are they wouldn't have had the competence to make the episode last longer. It would have been easy enough to do and still have the episode go for as long as it did. If Nora told the team even if Nora subsequently failed a few more times she would have had Team Flash around to come up with ideas and as backup for the fight making it much much more likely she'd succeed and much much sooner than she did.

This is one of the scenarios I wanted to see play out. Maybe after a few tries she tells one team member and they come up with an idea, but it doesn't work; then she tries someone else, and so on. then eventually looping in the whole team.

[adora721]

5 hours ago, immortalfrieza said:

The same reason that Barry can run fast enough to make a nuclear explosion look like it's standing still for an hour yet can't use that same speed to effortlessly defeat any villains he comes across. It's because if either of them did any given episode would be over in 5 minutes.

I have the same issue when watching Jedi fighting non-force sensitive villains. Like, Jedi can literally move things with their minds, but they fight with their lightsabers instead. 

Spoiler

The closet thing I've seen was Vader throwing debris at Luke on Bespin in TESB. Yes, I know Luke has the force, but Vader using the force to pummel Luke made more sense than a saber fight against a weaker (at that time) opponent. Only when I watched some "Force: Unleashed" trailers did I see what I think would make sense when a Jedi fights non-Jedi or non-Sith. Use the force, darn it! But, then the fight would be over too soon. Ugh!

Edited February 17, 2019 by adora721

[SimoneS]

Yes, the reply feature at the bottom is back!

In addition to the annoyance of Cicada always escaping, it is also how poorly these fight scenes have been set up. On the roof, instead of Team Flash just standing looking at him after he was stabbed, they should have shown Nora running to put the meta cuffs on Cicada only for her powers to be drained by the dagger allowing him to escape. This was the same problem with the scene where Barry just walks away from Cicada when he sees Nora in previous episode. These episodes have different directors so it is up to Helbing to give them guidance to set up these scenes. 

I think that the bigger problem is that the writers have revealed the big bad's identity too soon and given Team Flash too many direct confrontations with him these last two seasons. In the first season, Barry didn't even know that Thawne was his true enemy, but even then he only had two confrontations with the man in yellow before coming up with a plan that successfully captured him. In seasons two and three, they had to fight the minions before the first confrontations with Zoom and Savitar, respectively. They need to go back to this formula. They should also have mini-three episode arcs with other villains during the season to give us a break from the big bad. I would have liked to have gotten more of fun villains like Goldface and the Ragdoll.

Edited February 17, 2019 by SimoneS

[slayer2]

Oh Nora, you're terrible yet somehow not as terrible as Chris Klein's acting. Ship me up for Cisco and Kamila, so glad to see him again. Don't agree with the cure plot for all the damage it could do  and how much I love Vibe (how could you not want to be Vibe?) but I'm kinda down for anything that give Carlos a storyline. 

Kamila is really cute and Ralph is getting much less annoying so both these things are good but Nora oi!!! Loved the callback to Jay Garrick's speech with Barry when Barry spoke to Nora about the timeline. She doesn't get it. Just like Chris Klein doesn't get how to act. Still. MY EYES! !!!! 

[slayer2]

On 2/16/2019 at 9:07 PM, Trini said:

This is one of the scenarios I wanted to see play out. Maybe after a few tries she tells one team member and they come up with an idea, but it doesn't work; then she tries someone else, and so on. then eventually looping in the whole team.

I agree. They are a team for a reason and there's no I in Team. I guess her parents never got around to telling her that. I felt her behaviour was egotistical and selfish. 

[legaleagle53]

5 hours ago, slayer2 said:

I agree. They are a team for a reason and there's no I in Team. I guess her parents never got around to telling her that. I felt her behaviour was egotistical and selfish. 

You're not wrong there. Nora wants to be the strong, independent hero she's always believed her father to be, but she still doesn't understand that one of the reasons he's so good at what he does is that he's learned to ask for help when he needs it instead of trying to fix everything by himself.  That's WHY there's a Team Flash in the first place. 

If Nora had simply thought it through, it wouldn't have taken her 52 tries before she finally asked the team to help her; she'd have realized after maybe the third failed attempt that she was in over her head and it might be a good idea to clue the team in (since she also couldn't seem to grasp that because the timeline played out in exactly the same fashion with only the identity of Cicada's victim changing every time, she could easily have predicted and anticipated  Cicada's every move including his boomerang throw of the dagger and simply shoved him directly into its return path in the first place, as the team figured out for her).

Edited February 18, 2019 by legaleagle53

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, legaleagle53 said:

If Nora had simply thought it through, it wouldn't have taken her 52 tries before she finally asked the team to help her; she'd have realized after maybe the third failed attempt that she was in over her head and it might be a good idea to clue the team in (since she also couldn't seem to grasp that because the timeline played out in exactly the same fashion with only the identity of Cicada's victim changing every time, she could easily have predicted and anticipated  Cicada's every move including his boomerang throw of the dagger and simply shoved him directly into its return path in the first place, as the team figured out for her).

The writers probably felt that they couldn't fill the episode if they got Team Flash involved earlier, but they could have had the team fail at least once at stopping Cicada before being successful. Look many episodes we have seen their initial plans backfire. It would have also given them time to explain Nora's rewind power by having her explain it to the team and explain the plan clearly so that most of the audience would actually understood what was going on in that final scene on the roof.

[blugirlami21]

On 2/15/2019 at 5:02 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Eobard can be a charismatic guy when he wants to. Also, apparently neither Iris nor the Flash Museum nor the public record revealed to Nora that Eobard murdered her grandmother and framed her grandfather. Also, it's been implied that Eobard was the one who revealed to Nora that she'd been chipped to turn off her speed and taught her how to use it. So she could have been more inclined to trust him than she otherwise would be.

I think Nora could have definitely used that as an excuse when she first got to the past but she's knows better know. Barry himself has told her that Eobard killed her grandma and Cisco just told her that Eobard "killed"  him as well. She's also aware that Eobard has lied to her about what he's really done. It just doesn't make any sense for her to trust him in any way unless she's using him but I just don't think Nora is clever enough to pull that off.

[mac123x]

On 2/12/2019 at 9:02 PM, quarks said:

But really, the biggest difference is with Nora. It took her 52 times to decide to tell Team Flash what was happening?

I think it's worse than that -- she didn't tell them what was going on until they confronted her.  She would have continued to fail ad infinitum if they hadn't guessed what was going on.

I'm glad Sherloque finally got to decrypt her diary.  Only good thing to come of out this mess.

On 2/12/2019 at 10:00 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

And then when Chris Klein is down on the ground after being stabbed by his own dagger no one does anything! They just stare at him! Until he Super Mario jumps out of there! THEY’RE ALL SO DUMB SOMETIMES!

I literally yelled "slit his throat!"  Which they wouldn't do, but at least hit him with the freezy stuff.

My rewrite of the scene which would keep Team Flash from looking like dunderheads is pretty easy:  When Cicada gets hit by his boomerang blade, it knocks him off the roof.  They rush to the edge of the building and look over, and then he flies away.

[BeautifulFlower]

On 2/18/2019 at 3:01 PM, legaleagle53 said:

You're not wrong there. Nora wants to be the strong, independent hero she's always believed her father to be, but she still doesn't understand that one of the reasons he's so good at what he does is that he's learned to ask for help when he needs it instead of trying to fix everything by himself.  That's WHY there's a Team Flash in the first place. 

I have to disagree on why there's a team. In season 1 and 2, Barry was still new to his powers. Its why he got help mostly from expert speedsters. We're 5 seasons in and Barry shouldn't still be asking for solutions. He should have a handle on his powers by now. Plus, Barry is smart himself, but we never get to see it because of the team. 

There's a team because the creators decided to follow Arrow's formula.

[mac123x]

I'm glad they got the cure finalized -- one step closer to the inevitable "Cicada uses the cure on Barry" plotline that is definitely coming up.  Ooh, I wonder if that'll be the season-ending cliffhanger:  Cicada is defeated but with his last act before dying, he stabs Barry with the cure.  Dun dun DUN.

On 2/14/2019 at 5:04 PM, Trini said:

'Enough caffeine to kill a metahuman!' *Jitters marketing team highfives each other*

Maybe Jitters Inc. is really bigoted against metahumans.  They named a drink after a dude who is still actively killing metas.

On 2/18/2019 at 3:01 PM, legaleagle53 said:

If Nora had simply thought it through, it wouldn't have taken her 52 tries before she finally asked the team to help her; she'd have realized after maybe the third failed attempt that she was in over her head and it might be a good idea to clue the team in

Her obstinacy resulted in her taking a bunch of notes in her notebook (which evidently didn't get reset?  Okay), thus exposing the translations of more of her notations to Sherloque

[BeautifulFlower]

I know people said that they saw Iris die in the montage of each scenarios, but I don't think she died in any of those 52 times.

First, Nora made it her priority to get Iris to remain at Star Labs.

Second, Iris is her mother. The minute Iris dies, Nora would've disappeared. She wouldn't have time to reverse that as she would have disappeared immediately. We've seen it with Eobard back in season 1 when Eddie shot himself.