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Athena

Other Pro Gridiron Football (AAF, XFL, CFL..)

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They moved the game next week between Birmingham and Orlando to tnt.   They want folks to see what should be a good game between the top teams.

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I have heard much speculation about AAF expansion and where it should go.....

1 Portland....a territory with an appropriate stadium.... a large population center....strong collegiate football in the northwest.....so a lot of potentially strong talent here.......a natural fit...... and it has had second league history with WFL and USFL teams.

2  Columbus:  A 20 000 seat venue is available here and a team that would draw it's talents in big ten territory..... had previous second team in WLAF  (Ohio Glory).

3.   Oakland:   Yes I would go there.....an area with a somewhat solid collegiate football player base...... and how can you call Oakland fans disloyal?  The Davises gave Oakland pro football.... took it away..... brought it back..... and even though for the time being its remaining...... it's leaving again for good.    Showed to be an interested fan base for the USFL Invaders despite the Raiders departure to LA.    Can tear down Mount Davis still and restore the Coliseum.....restore it's views.....reduce to maybe 30,000 seats for baseball and AAF football.....it would work.   I'd tear down Mount Davis even with the Raiders still there...... even during the NFL season.

4.   The league needs a territorial presence in the upper northeast. and I'm thinking maybe Red Bulls Arena or the Carrier Dome in the New York region   There is collegiate talent here.....and the #1 tv market is here.....still gotta consider that.

4.  Raleigh-Durham:  Have you noticed the numbers of players from this region on NFL rosters?   If you include the Virginia area here you could build one solid tremendous football roster even with the second guys.   The area has experienced second football before with the Skyhawks of WLAF.

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2 minutes ago, Sounder said:

I have heard much speculation about AAF expansion and where it should go.....

1 Portland....a territory with an appropriate stadium.... a large population center....strong collegiate football in the northwest.....so a lot of potentially strong talent here.......a natural fit...... and it has had second league history with WFL and USFL teams.

2  Columbus:  A 20 000 seat venue is available here and a team that would draw it's talents in big ten territory..... had previous second team in WLAF  (Ohio Glory).

3.   Oakland:   Yes I would go there.....an area with a somewhat solid collegiate football player base...... and how can you call Oakland fans disloyal?  The Davises gave Oakland pro football.... took it away..... brought it back..... and even though for the time being its remaining...... it's leaving again for good.    Showed to be an interested fan base for the USFL Invaders despite the Raiders departure to LA.    Can tear down Mount Davis still and restore the Coliseum.....restore it's views.....reduce to maybe 30,000 seats for baseball and AAF football.....it would work.   I'd tear down Mount Davis even with the Raiders still there...... even during the NFL season.

4.   The league needs a territorial presence in the upper northeast. and I'm thinking maybe Red Bulls Arena or the Carrier Dome in the New York region   There is collegiate talent here.....and the #1 tv market is here.....still gotta consider that.

4.  Raleigh-Durham:  Have you noticed the numbers of players from this region on NFL rosters?   If you include the Virginia area here you could build one solid tremendous football roster even with the second guys.   The area has experienced second football before with the Skyhawks of WLAF.

So that's my top five..... not the top three and two fours.

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I loooooove the NFL.  I mean I have a N.Y. tattoo for the Giants.  But tonight rather than watching a Sunday night game on the NFL net, I’m watching The Lion King.  A 25 year old movie I could watch on DVD any day of the week.

It’s really a Catch 22.  I know a few of the players, but not many, but I won’t get to know them if I don’t watch them, but I'm not entirely interested in watching teams I don’t know.  Also, there isn’t a team in the northeast, IIRC.

I feel like they are going to get to a point of market saturation.  Personally I am aces with a 17 week season and then the playoffs.  There are other sports I want to watch the rest of the year.

Edited by mojoween
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44 minutes ago, mojoween said:

I feel like they are going to get to a point of market saturation.  Personally I am aces with a 17 week season and then the playoffs.  There are other sports I want to watch the rest of the year.

I agree. I LOVE football - college and NFL - but it is nice to get a break and focus on other sports. This time of the year I’m all about college basketball and the upcoming tournaments (men and women).

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9 hours ago, woodstock said:

I agree. I LOVE football - college and NFL - but it is nice to get a break and focus on other sports. This time of the year I’m all about college basketball and the upcoming tournaments (men and women).

Well as I alluded to earlier...... some kind of off-NFL football in early spring will remain.  You may not actually need it.....but it's there.  It's a short three month cycle and it's kind of fun.  The NFL..... if it desired.....could easily cover these six to eight next markets and be a 40 team league I guess.......this system. works better.

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It made for an intriguing finish yesterday in Birmingham as after Trent Richardson scored his seventh TD in four games ....and the conversion successful....we had a 12-11 Commanders lead.   The Iron can now try the 12 yd "onside conversion" to regain possession......it didn't go this time....but the idea is good.   The altered NFL kickoff rule....with no running start..... didn't so much ruin the kickoff play..... but rendered the onside kick useless.  Meaning when a team drops two scores down late.... its over.   I don't want to see kickoffs removed from the game.   But adopting this onside conversion would be better than the failed onside kick ritual.

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It's a sad state of affairs when Trent Richardson is the MVP of the league.

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So we have Orlando on top with Birmingham one game down in the AAF East..... Atlanta and Memphis finally notched their first victories..... Birmingham will face Orlando this weekend.

Int he AAF West...... things are wide open ..... Arizona, San Diego. and San Antonio all sit at 2-2......and Salt Lake sits one back.   Maybe Johnny Manziel makes an impact perhaps?

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I listen to ESPN Radio from 4:45 am to 1 pm Monday through Friday.  No SportsCenter break gives an update on AAF scores or previews upcoming games.  If the AAF can’t get a foothold on the worldwide leader other than them talking about the novelty of the league after the first weekend, the league is going to have trouble.

I saw a clip on Twitter of a game-winning kick from yesterday and the stands were so empty. And the only reason I saw the clip is the kicker is 8/8 and Mina Kimes is advocating for the Seahawks to sign him.

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6 hours ago, mojoween said:

I listen to ESPN Radio from 4:45 am to 1 pm Monday through Friday.  No SportsCenter break gives an update on AAF scores or previews upcoming games.  If the AAF can’t get a foothold on the worldwide leader other than them talking about the novelty of the league after the first weekend, the league is going to have trouble.

I saw a clip on Twitter of a game-winning kick from yesterday and the stands were so empty. And the only reason I saw the clip is the kicker is 8/8 and Mina Kimes is advocating for the Seahawks to sign him.

ESPN doesn't usually report on things they don't have any kind of interest in...... and they suck anyway.  Why can't MNF be back on ABC?

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The newest gizmo brought to you by the AAF is "Sky Judge"..... its purpose is to catch what the "snazzily dressed" AAF officials don't see.   In the Commanders/Iron game..... it flagged a play on the SA cornerback for targeting a defenseless reciever that the refs had missed.   Imagine what would've been in BOTH the AFC and NFC title games if such a device was in play...... but then again...... if the NFL had this..... they wouldn't have gotten the outcome they wanted.

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12 hours ago, Sounder said:

ESPN doesn't usually report on things they don't have any kind of interest in...... and they suck anyway.  Why can't MNF be back on ABC?

Cuz y'see..... espn/abc I believe could easily air MNF on the big network.... is there a reason they don't?  

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The news on the television front has been positive so far through four weeks..... the AAF has outperformed the NBA, NHL, MLS, EPL, Pro Bowling. and even the NFL combine on the various cable outlets..... only the TNT games and NFL net games have been measured...... numbers for games on CBSSN and B/R Live are not available.  It has been encouraging enough for TNT that even though they only initially committed to a single regular season and one playoff broadcast..... in addition to already having added the Orlando vs Birmingham game this weekend.....they will also add Orlando vs Atlanta the following week......howwwwwweverrr.......... attendance for week four suffered some..... bad late winter weather and cold and in one case snow......led to a poor turnout for Salt Lake.   Less than 10,000...... hell.....I wouldn't have gone either.......Arizona posted a disappointing turnout.....maybe it was the winless Atlanta Legends......who are winless no more.   But the tv numbers do indicate that people are willing to watch the league..... it'll take some time for people to actually come to the stadiums...... be patient.

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And by the way.....despite the fact that Richardson has seven TDs in four games.... he's getting a lot of goal line chances.....at least he converts them.....his yardage doesn't rank on top and I've barely seen his name on any top five MVP candidate lists.  In Atlanta..... they may have been a little hasty writing off the Legends now that Aaron Murray will be assuming the starting role..... he looked real good against Arizona and I still can't believe he didn't stick in the NFL.  I hope he gets another look.

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There is no plan for expansion for 2020.   Bill Polian wants to focus first on establishing a firmer footing for the original 8 franchises.   There will be no relocations...... the league and the NFL have established at least some kind of "informal" dialogue on the subject of NFL teams allocating players to the AAF.     And Johnny Manziel likrly won't be hired by any AAF team this yesr mostly because it's already mid season and too late for him to come in and get acclimated.   That...... and the due diligence process hasn't quite been completed....... y'see what kind of crap you can bring on to yourself?   But I'm not ending this post on that note..........

Hey Boys and Girls......there's a new arena football expansion team coming......the Atlantic City Arena Football soon to pick a name club is actually holding an open tryout on Saturday March 30 in Pitman NJ......so I'm just saying if you think you can be an arena football player...... here's your chance.   Its not for the feint of heart because they do things there like slam you into boards.   

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The Arena Football League will be bigger and better in 2019...... SIX teams this year..... up from four.   All teams are in the northeast.....Washington, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Albany, Columbus and Atlantic City. no known tv partner on board at this time but you can stream anything these days if you need it.   A seventh team....(Cleveland Gladiators) are on hiatus this season...... joining all the other ghost of arena football past that can seemingly pop up at any time....... (Beware of the New Orleans Voodoo).

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Who doesn't think maybe Vince McMahon can drop the outdoor league wishes and purchase the Arena League and rebrand THAT as the "xfl"?  Think what he could do with it...... if ever there was a football brand begging to be sports entertainment....... that's it right there.

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By this time one year from now..... we could have three spring pro football outdoor leagues competing for the same level of talent.....it's boom times for lower level players.  The Freedom Football League has indeed released its list of ten teams to take the field by March 2020.   Portland, Oakland, San Diego, Austin, Oklahoma City, Cleveland, Birmingham, Orlando, St. Louis, and Hartford are the cities listed. The FFL is the brainchild of Ricky Williams, Terrell Owens, Simeon Rice, Byron Chamberlain, Jeff Garcia and Dexter Jackson.  It's mission is to create an entertaining brand of football involving former players, sponsorships and and you the fans "owning" the franchises.   It will encourage it's players to be socially conscious and expressive about the issues of the world.  Other than that.....there hasn't been any actual football related activity.....no coaches.....no players yet.....  And as of yet.....no tv plan.

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1 minute ago, Sounder said:

By this time one year from now..... we could have three spring pro football outdoor leagues competing for the same level of talent.....it's boom times for lower level players.  The Freedom Football League has indeed released its list of ten teams to take the field by March 2020.   Portland, Oakland, San Diego, Austin, Oklahoma City, Cleveland, Birmingham, Orlando, St. Louis, and Hartford are the cities listed. The FFL is the brainchild of Ricky Williams, Terrell Owens, Simeon Rice, Byron Chamberlain, Jeff Garcia and Dexter Jackson.  It's mission is to create an entertaining brand of football involving former players, sponsorships and and you the fans "owning" the franchises.   It will encourage it's players to be socially conscious and expressive about the issues of the world.  Other than that.....there hasn't been any actual football related activity.....no coaches.....no players yet.....  And as of yet.....no tv plan.

And if you donate today..... they might just send you a freedom football blanket as a thank you.

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Wait, wait, wait.   Jeff Garcia and Terrell Owens are working on a venture together?    I guess the search for more cash makes for strange bedfellows.    Yes I did that on purpose.

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According to the AAF's Bill Polian...... there was actual discussion about a plsyer sharing arrangement with the NFL.   But such a deal hits a major snag with these other upstarts.  The NFL would have to offer equal opportunities to the xfl and possibly.....the ffl.....or it violates antitrust law.  The only way the NFL and AAF could establish a working relationship excluding the others would be for the NFL to own the AAF.   that's what SHOULD happen in a world of sensible logic.......but we live in bizarro time now......so the NFL likely stays out.

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AAF Week five:   Orlando vs Birmingham...... TNT..... Iron need victory here to keep pace in the east.

Salt Lake vs San Diego....... NFL Net.......with the ten game sprint almost half way..... the West is still widr open for the top two spots.

Sunday:  Atlanta vs Memphis...... CBSSN......The last time Mettenberger and Murray met on the field was an LSU/Georgia matchup in 2003......they had combined for 680 yds and 7 TDs.

San Antonio vs Arizona.......NFL Net.......Thr winner here likely takes control in the west......loser remains in a ruck for the second spot.

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I think we can all assume Orlando..... barring something unforseen..... has it's spot locked in stone.  At 5-0 now.....the only suspense is whether they do it unbeaten.  The second spot in the AAF East is now being challenged for as Aaron Murray led the Legends to two straight wins now to pull within a game of the Iron.   Out west..... we have the Commanders over the Fleet by just a tie break.   Arizona on the heels of a third straight loss need to find an answer quick as the crowd only slightly improved over last week.....there had been early buzz on this team as a favorite....but all fans are getting is more of what they're used to from the NFL Cardinals..... 

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Gotta give Salt Lake QB Josh Woodrum credit for heart...... it was all his fault his team got behind big..... having allowed two San Diego defensive scores on consecutive possessions..... first a fumble return. then a pick six.   But he rallied back.....a late TD and conversion put the Stallions up one with :47 left....... too much time left for Mike Bercovici...... one fling downfield was all he needed for fg range..... Fleet win.

Edited by Sounder

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Some xfl rule changes and/or proposals.......

They will kick off..... but the neutral zone will be five yds which cannot be broken until the ball is in the returners hands.

A running clock until two minutes to half and game.

A 25 or 30 second play clock.

Here's a bizzaro world rule...... there's to be no extra point kicks.... a scrimmage play after a TD gets one point from the 2...... two points from the 5.….. and THREE points from the 15!

And here's another one:  They want to allow more than one legal forward pass on a given play.......stupid.

More bizzaro world..... and true...... ALL offensive players including lineman behind the actual line of scrimmage are eligible receivers..... talk about run and shoot.    MAJOR stupid.

A full one yard neutral zone like in Canada......I guess to do what......make more room to run when everybody is an eligible reciever who can pass more than once?

A mandatory five yard zone for punt returners who will NOT be allowed to fair catch.......did not say whether they'd bring back the ball is live after 25 yards rule...... whereas the kicking side can recover......maybe too unsafe.... but no fair catch?

Players WILL STAND for the anthem...... Vince has politically corrected himself.

Other than things above...... you know the rest.

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The big CBS network has picked up two additional AAF games......exact games not specified...... on April 6 at noon ahead of the NCAA semifinals.....and a semifinal playoff game.....both were originally slated for CBSSN......but the leagues ratings have exceeded expectations.    Get used to it......the AAF is staying.

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On 3/13/2019 at 8:24 PM, Sounder said:

And here's another one:  They want to allow more than one legal forward pass on a given play.......stupid

Why not?   The only reason only one forward pass is allowed is because the rulebook says so.   Heck, the original rulebook didn't allow ANY forward passes.   there is no legitimate reason to not allow forward passes in a play other than tradition.

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CBS announced the April 6 at noon game will be Memphis at San Antonio.   This announcement was actually made before the AAF signed Johnny Manziel.  The twist here is that the Commanders by territorial right, had right of first refusal.  They refused    The now 1-5 Memphis Express will claim the quarterback after losing Zach Mettenberger to injury.   The Express are on the ropes after a 22-9 loss to Salt Lake......can Johnny save the day?  It'll at least sell a few more tickets in Memphis.

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One thing you can say about the inaugural AAF season..... no team has really gotten away.....no one has really dropped out six weeks in.    The Apollos finally lose.....the Hotshots break through after three losses..... the Iron behind Keith Price!!!!.......surprise the Fleet.....and now it's San Antonio surging up the power rsnkings as well as being the lead draw in the AAF averaging better than 25,000 per game.   Most teams are bettering 10,000....... two teams ( Salt Lake, Arizona).....are slightly below that.

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Whelp, Mike Singeltary showed why he is not an NFL head coach anymore.   Running out onto the field because the Refs don't call a delay of game penalty is just hotheadness, it is not being a strong coach.    These things happen in a game, the HC has to keep it together.   

AAF might be one and done.   The majority owner is the League is making demands on the NFL.   Which I don't understand.   He wants them to "give" the AAF younger players?   Umm, you take all the guys who are cut from camp rosters and develop them up.    The NFL teams don't assign their developmental players to  the AAF.    It's not like MLB where each team has a farm system playing the same season and can be called up during the season.   The AAF plays after the Super Bowl.   So they get the camp guys together in November or December, practice them out, then play the season.   Then the NFL calls up the guys they like to camp.   Lather, rinse, repeat.

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This whole enterprise seems to have been monumentally mismanaged. They start out severely under capitalized. They had to change the ownership structure in order get a bailout from a single owner who apparently takes total control. They haven't managed to nail down a key part of their business plan, obtaining NFL practice squad players to make them a true development league. And then the majority owner jumps into the negotiation with an astounding sense of entitlement with respect to getting access to NFL players that I'm sure went over really well with union head DeMaurice Smith. 

I wonder if they launched prematurely, hoping to get a jump on the XFL. It looks like they might actually clear the field for them.

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On 3/31/2019 at 9:01 AM, merylinkid said:

AAF might be one and done. 

Looks like not even one...

image.png

Edited by Moose135

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I feel bad for the players.   They wanted to play and get seen by the NFL.  Now they're done.

Letting one guy have such control was not a good idea.

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Just my opinion, but I guess it's safe to say or assume that the NBA didn't lose sleep over losing to the AAF in ratings (on February 9 during their big primetime game prior to the All-Stars)

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When I Google AAF I always see tweets from American Action Forum. This is the first tweet I saw today

image.png.2f16f5f8d7787f004812befdc89e09db.png

Strangely applicable and yet almost certainly wrong.

I'm really bummed about this. It feels like such a strange series of events, as if there's some critical piece of the puzzle not yet known to the public.

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On 4/2/2019 at 1:24 PM, merylinkid said:

I feel bad for the players.   They wanted to play and get seen by the NFL.  Now they're done.

Letting one guy have such control was not a good idea.

It has been reported that the players had to pay for their own flights home.

It wasn't any great surprise that this league failed.  It shouldn't shock anyone.  Back in the USFL days, that league failed too, and it didn't have to compete with all of the online streaming crap and other online distractions.

The NFL Europe eventually failed, and that was backed by the NFL.

I expect the XFL to go down in flames much like it did the first time around.

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10 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

It wasn't any great surprise that this league failed.  It shouldn't shock anyone. 

I don't think people are surprised that it failed, they are surprised that it didn't make it an entire season. (Steve Spurrier is.)

Fun fact. Co-founder Charlie Ebersol directed the ESPN 30 for 30 about the (short) life of the XFL.

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41 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Back in the USFL days, that league failed too, and it didn't have to compete with all of the online streaming crap and other online distractions.

The USFL was a going concern for many years.   They only died when a certain person (he's quite a well known name these days) started a disastrous lawsuit against the NFL.   The USFL won the lawsuit, but was only awarded $1.   The costs of that suit killed the League.    Rumor has it that person started the lawsuit after being rejected as an NFL owner.   

Ebersol put out a statement saying he was disappointed in the shutdown.    Dundon shut it down against the advice of the other two owners of the League, but he is majority owner so he controls.   It was never about the practice squad players.   They were talking just the day before and the NFL and NFLPA had felt they were making progress on the issue.     I think the theory that Dundon just wanted the betting app is more and more credible.

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As much as I feel sorry for the players I don't.  Though I could say as much as I don't feel sorry for the players I do.  I have to admit I'm in the group that's saying that the players that are now out of work weren't good enough to be in the NFL, and maybe should have something to fall back on.  For example, their degree and/or a skill acquired prior to their professional career

That being said, it sucks for the players.  This league was never going to work.  Total poor planning which could've been better.  It's sad because people are unemployed; really while it was inevitable, it would have been nice if they completed their season

Sorta hope Mr. McMahon changes his mind.  Although I think he might figure out what went wrong and produce a more successful product

IMO, the football fix is overrated.  Several people mentioned this over the past couple days and during the AAF season, for your "football fix" you didn't need more football.  The Combine, Draft, Hall of Fame, TV Shows, Drama, and Free Agency Period was more than good enough.  Several people have said that the buildup and stories were better than the game!

As much as I love football, the love has lasted due to management of viewing football.  Post Superbowl it's over, and it's emotional.  However, by August I ready to go back to football.

No defense for the players having to pay for their flights home.  I don't care whether it was obvious that the AAF would fail; that is messed up since it appears that it came as a total surprise, and it's still messed up

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I just decided to check out the AAF website.    It is still active and still saying you can buy tickets to games.   I didn't click the link to see if you could actually BUY tickets.   But the website itself still says games will be played this weekend.

Someone should probably update that.

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Yeah, I felt kind of ghoulish checking to see if I could get some cheap gear. 

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