S08.E07: Can I Trust You?

[configdotsys]

Everything bad that has been written about Luke I agree with. That being said, to me, Kate is a desperate, foolish woman who is embarrassing to watch as she wonders just what she can do to make this work because she's so desperate for a husband. It's like she bought something and it arrived hopelessly broken but she sits staring at it saying, "I don't know what to do. Maybe it can work. Maybe it will magically spring to life." To me she has shown no backbone whatsoever. In the preview she says something like this is the first time she really feels like she is Luke's wife. That she even said that cements my belief that she is a total maroon. 

[Kareem]

23 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Anyone else wondering why no Liberty Bell or Rocky statue in Philly montage?

Right?!  AJ's first walk down the street as a couple took him to a bakery. She should drag him to the Linc to see the Philly Special statue since he didn't let her finish watching the game.  Not getting a lot of scenery this season.  

[scruffy73]

8 hours ago, aphroditewitch said:

This has been addressed already and no it was not referring to Jasmine. 

There is no need to be nasty. I made a mistake. 

[aphroditewitch]

2 hours ago, scruffy73 said:

There is no need to be nasty. I made a mistake. 

There was nothing nasty about my post. It was matter of fact. 

[Gigi G3]

Both Luke and Jasmine make digs at their partners. Luke is a douche but Jasmine is pretty bad too. I don't think she has ever said a nice thing to Will. I feel sorry for him. 

[Rae Spellman]

On 2/14/2019 at 7:32 PM, Gem 10 said:

I honestly have a feeling that Will doesn’t like anything about Jasmine.  He looks bored to death, unless that’s his nature.  If he was matched with Kristene, there would be fireworks.  I may be wrong, but, with a different woman, he would come alive.  No chemistry there at all.  We’ll see next week.  Seems like it’s now or never.

Jasmine doesn't seem to like Will, either. Not that she dislikes him. As edited, she seems to see him as a man who is not performing the role of husband to her liking rather than a decent guy she should get to know. 

Pairing Will with Kristine wouldn't necessarily be better.  She might not be physically attracted to him. He might bore her to death.  She might even annoy him if she was insistent about him going to the gym or getting rid of his favorite shoes. They might not have intelligent conversations, either. 

Stephanie is making it work with AJ.. But, she and Will might have been a decent match.  Better even. She has more reasonable expectations than Jasmine. Wouldn't need him to go to the gym 5 days a week. Would be really committed to making the relationship work.   

[Yeah No]

On 2/14/2019 at 9:14 AM, Gem 10 said:

Which means what?

Borderline Personality Disorder with a crossover to another disorder like maybe antisocial or psychopathic.  Just speculation, of course.

On 2/14/2019 at 10:42 AM, Neurochick said:

I don't know, but lately it seems that every behavior needs a diagnosis these days and every "not nice" behavior is considered abuse.  It's hard to tell on a show where we only see a snippet of these people's lives.

What part of saying "I feel dead inside" after he kissed her is not abusive?  Luke seems to be the clearest case of an abusive asshole ever to be on this show!  It doesn't take an in-depth study on him, he's so incredibly obvious he can be seen a mile away in snippets on TV!

[aphroditewitch]

On 2/14/2019 at 9:42 AM, Neurochick said:

I don't know, but lately it seems that every behavior needs a diagnosis these days and every "not nice" behavior is considered abuse.  It's hard to tell on a show where we only see a snippet of these people's lives.

Luke has gone beyond behavior that is simply "not nice". He tried to ruin Kate's reputation by calling her an alcoholic despite not giving any evidence. People have criticized Kate for being overly invested in Luke despite not knowing him very long. But the same goes for him. He is very hell bent on hurting Kate despite not having a history with her. What is Luke's motivation to try and destroy a woman he barely knows? Why is he determined to make her seem like an alcoholic? There is something seriously wrong with him if he feels the need to go out of this way to do those things to someone he only has to deal with for a short period of time. For all the people saying that Kate can just leave, the same also goes for Luke. If he finds Kate so awful to live with, he could state that and go. But instead he pulls these stunts like telling her he feels dead inside and trying to make her out to be an alcoholic. 

[Gem 10]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

Borderline Personality Disorder with a crossover to another disorder like maybe antisocial or psychopathic.  Just speculation, of course.

What part of saying "I feel dead inside" after he kissed her is not abusive?  Luke seems to be the clearest case of an abusive asshole ever to be on this show!  It doesn't take an in-depth study on him, he's so incredibly obvious he can be seen a mile away in snippets on TV!

O.k. Thanks.  This guy is so confusing.  I guess during the screening, the experts saw him as charming as I did.  Then, the real Luke came out.  Scary.  Too bad for her.

[Soup333]

I didn’t realize emotional abuse was subjective but I guess it is. If Luke married someone impervious to his insults then I guess that would be the perfect match for him. 

Maybe it’s all about behavior that any one of us would tolerate. Some say AJ’s wildly careening moods are a piece of cake. I couldn’t deal, nor could I put up with Keith’s gender role expectations. I don’t think either one of them are abusive though. 

But Luke. Saying his wife of a few days repulses him is just wild. Who among us would not only stay but also continue to have hope that attraction or even respect could grow out of that? Even after he continues to say he’s not attracted. Many times. Many times in three weeks.

Then he told producers she had a drinking problem and answered Dr. Pepper with a firm yes when she asked him yes or no. He immediately capitulated on that when Kate was in the room. Even later told her, “You don’t have a problem.” So...why’d you say it? What purpose did it serve to tell the producers that? He couldn’t possibly have been sincerely concerned because he purchased alcohol for her.

Does Kate have to be physically assaulted or yelled at before it qualifies as abuse? If any of us were in a relationship and the other person said and did these things, would you consider it abuse or just brush it off as nothing? 

[stuckin60s]

Never liked Luke, but it always appreared in Kates talking head, that she was tipsy.  of course we will find out the sort of truth at the end

[Claire Voyant]

1 hour ago, Soup333 said:

I didn’t realize emotional abuse was subjective but I guess it is. If Luke married someone impervious to his insults then I guess that would be the perfect match for him. 

Maybe it’s all about behavior that any one of us would tolerate. Some say AJ’s wildly careening moods are a piece of cake. I couldn’t deal, nor could I put up with Keith’s gender role expectations. I don’t think either one of them are abusive though. 

But Luke. Saying his wife of a few days repulses him is just wild. Who among us would not only stay but also continue to have hope that attraction or even respect could grow out of that? Even after he continues to say he’s not attracted. Many times. Many times in three weeks.

Then he told producers she had a drinking problem and answered Dr. Pepper with a firm yes when she asked him yes or no. He immediately capitulated on that when Kate was in the room. Even later told her, “You don’t have a problem.” So...why’d you say it? What purpose did it serve to tell the producers that? He couldn’t possibly have been sincerely concerned because he purchased alcohol for her.

Does Kate have to be physically assaulted or yelled at before it qualifies as abuse? If any of us were in a relationship and the other person said and did these things, would you consider it abuse or just brush it off as nothing? 

There's no doubt in my mind Dirty Puke is abusive.  It's obvious and won't get any better with time.  Not rocket science, really.  He is not a nice person and not worth spending another minute with. 

Contract or no contract, Puke could go to hell before I'd subject myself to him any further if I were Kate   I don't pretend to understand the Kate's of this world.  I just wish she'd leave that little rat-bastard rfn. 

Anyone putting up with the nasty shit he's thrown out there at Kate and gossiping about her drinking, while she just sits there like a lump on a log makes me frustrated and furious.   What does it take for some people to wake the hell up?  Does he have to backhand her before she gets a clue?  Beat her to a pulp?  Lock her up in the basement for a month? 

I'm annoyed to have to watch her wide-eyed confusion at Puke's vileness and her unrealistic, hopeful expectation for tomorrow's Prince Charming to magically appear.   The whole thing is making me kinda cranky, really.  😛

[Gem 10]

2 hours ago, Soup333 said:

I didn’t realize emotional abuse was subjective but I guess it is. If Luke married someone impervious to his insults then I guess that would be the perfect match for him. 

Maybe it’s all about behavior that any one of us would tolerate. Some say AJ’s wildly careening moods are a piece of cake. I couldn’t deal, nor could I put up with Keith’s gender role expectations. I don’t think either one of them are abusive though. 

But Luke. Saying his wife of a few days repulses him is just wild. Who among us would not only stay but also continue to have hope that attraction or even respect could grow out of that? Even after he continues to say he’s not attracted. Many times. Many times in three weeks.

Then he told producers she had a drinking problem and answered Dr. Pepper with a firm yes when she asked him yes or no. He immediately capitulated on that when Kate was in the room. Even later told her, “You don’t have a problem.” So...why’d you say it? What purpose did it serve to tell the producers that? He couldn’t possibly have been sincerely concerned because he purchased alcohol for her.

Does Kate have to be physically assaulted or yelled at before it qualifies as abuse? If any of us were in a relationship and the other person said and did these things, would you consider it abuse or just brush it off as nothing? 

Talking about A.J. and Keith and their behaviors, I know quite a few men that are like that and their wives just tolerate it.  Yep, A.J. Is annoying but underneath I think he is a good guy.  Keith is just a spoiled little baby, but not bad overall.  Puke is just twisted in so many ways .. I would dump him in a heartbeat.  I think Stephanie and Kristene will be able to handle them both in time.  Poor Kate doesn’t have a chance.  I would be scared to live with a guy like Puke.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

Soup, you said:

7 hours ago, Soup333 said:

I didn’t realize emotional abuse was subjective but I guess it is. If Luke married someone impervious to his insults then I guess that would be the perfect match for him. Maybe it’s all about behavior that any one of us would tolerate. 

Luke. Saying his wife of a few days repulses him is just wild. Does Kate have to be physically assaulted or yelled at before it qualifies as abuse? If any of us were in a relationship and the other person said and did these things, would you consider it abuse or just brush it off as nothing? 

Luke and Kate.  I think Luke is a narcissist. Actually, I recently came across a Web MD article about the classic characteristics of Narcissism. It said the way you spot a narcissist is to watch for people who are "selfish, vain, a glutton for attention, manipulative, & cruel. " The article went on to explain that there are different levels of narcissism. Extreme narcissism can be a mental illness called narcissistic personality disorder. For a person with that disorder, life revolves around their need for approval. They don’t understand or care about others’ feelings. These people are convinced they're special, and they need everyone to acknowledge it.

Last season we had a groom named Dave who resembled Luke quite a bit, IMHO. But his wife, Amber, reacted in very different ways than Kate does.

Kate shed a few tears over "when we kissed, I felt repulsed and dead inside" --and she discussed it with the other 'brides' and talked to Pastor Cal about it --but for the most part, Kate seems to have chosen to take a positive attitude toward Luke and toward their future together. Kate is sometimes criticized for "taking a positive attitude" with Luke (--it seems clear that Luke will never love Kate).

Obviously, if Dave ever said anything as brutal as "repulsed and dead inside" to Amber, she was far too embarrassed to repeat it. But Dave did "pick at" Amber on a regular basis, chiseling away at her (weak) self-esteem by routinely criticizing all kinds of little things she said and did. He often expressed verbal criticism or general distaste toward her, and sometimes he also implied criticism (without actually saying the words).

Amber always seemed to accept the blame for everything herself. She poured copious tears in response to any form of criticism from Dave. And Dave inevitably complained to Jamie and the "experts" any time he perceived Amber being "over-sensitive". That would lead to an "expert" intervention in which Dave's complaints were discussed at length and (a mostly silent) Amber was admonished to be less sensitive.

Posters here seemed to agree Amber was at fault, annoyed by her floods of tears and by the way she seemed so terribly anxious that Dave would never grow to love her (which of course, he didn't). Posters right now seem to blame Luke for the problems he and Kate are having --even though they're frustrated that Kate is staying with him and "hoping love will grow". But that could change.

I assume Luke is never going to love Kate, and probably won't ever 'consummate' his marriage to her. I wonder if by Decision Day, Luke will be seen as the "long-suffering" spouse who had to endure the tedious optimism of a 'boring' wife he was never attracted to at all?  

Edited February 17, 2019 by Crazy Bird Lady

[humbleopinion]

 What if Puke and Kate do bump uglies....then every poster on this thread will simultaneously experience their heads exploding like in Mars Attacks!

 https://gfycat.com/simplisticnimbleherring

Say it like Ricky Bobby did...FISHBOWL....

[Soup333]

2 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

 What if Puke and Kate do bump uglies....then every poster on this thread will simultaneously experience their heads exploding like in Mars Attacks!

 https://gfycat.com/simplisticnimbleherring

Say it like Ricky Bobby did...FISHBOWL....

It wouldn’t surprise me. Kate is down for it. It’s Luke who has the issue. If he feels he has to prove some sort of point with a “grand” gesture, I could see him having some form of pity sex with her. And maybe telling her he still isn’t attracted to her directly afterwards. 

[Kiss my mutt]

And watch puke run to the bathroom puking afterwards like in Kingpin. This guy is such a dickwad. 

[humbleopinion]

If Katey and Pukey do the do then the suffering audience of this show will all barf a little into our mouths.

Maybe gazpacho for dinner...something that wouldn't be so harsh in reverse...

[Kareem]

This is all so disgusting. Makes me hope that Will and Jas hold out longer, too. All that in the same episode would just push me over the edge.

[gonecrackers]

4 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

And watch puke run to the bathroom puking afterwards like in Kingpin. This guy is such a dickwad. 

Then he'll soak in a tub crying for two hours, blackout after drinking all the wine, 'forget' they ever did the deed, & tell the 'experts' Kate must have imagined it. She'll have to call him out yet again...

[discoprincessthe2]

On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 12:14 PM, Lily247 said:

Also, AJ is kind of wierd. Like, socially off. I only watch snips of this show here and there but I would be very very surprised of he has had a gf in the past 10 years. When he says he just doesn't want to eat alone, I assumed it was in a metaphorical way, but it looks like he was very, very literal about it. 

I had always assumed that AJ was very literal about that. 

On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 1:41 PM, cardigirl said:

I see that the discussions here have taken the turn that Kate is in a dangerous situation and is being emotionally abused and is powerless to leave her abuser. I'm not 100% certain that is true, and I'm really having trouble with the show acting very concerned about Kate and Luke when they really didn't step up for Heather at all. Maybe they learned a lesson there. I don't know. 

It's interesting that we haven't see any other bride after the Miami season tap out early when it was apparent that it wasn't going to work (e.g. Danielle from Chicago and Molly from Boston. I've seen speculation that the participants are contractually bound for the 8 weeks, and Kate may not be able to take the kind of hit for breaching the contract. 

On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 4:54 PM, Ilovepie said:

I have a hard time calling what Luke is doing abuse. Most what we are discussing here focuses on comments he has made, namely, "I feel repulsed and dead inside", and "I am not attracted to you", and "I think you are drinking too much". Two of these things he is talking about himself; he is not calling her names or doing anything to her. Is it nice? Hell no! But I don't think it's abusive. The alcoholic comment is a manipulative lie, but I still don't think it's abusive. If anything, it's anger inducing and it still says more about him than her.....

I still think he came on this show for a paycheck only. I think if he was attracted to the girl the producers chose, great; if not, just play nice and ride it out until the six weeks are up. It's gone horribly wrong for him though because he is not attracted to the girl chosen but she likes him, and she is not content to ride it out but is pushing him to be a real husband. I don't think he considered this possibility and is handling it totally wrong. He is still trying to play nice (hence, the hugs, smiles, etc.) but can't actually stand Kate smothering him and pressuring him and it's coming out.

Those stupid "experts" knew what he was when they chose him, hence the title "hustler" at the beginning. I think they set this couple up for drama only with no real expectation that it would work. What is working is that everyone is talking about it, so the show got what it wanted.

On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 6:21 PM, qtpye said:

Luke seems like someone who lives a lifestyle he can not afford and really needs the 20k from this show. He might of even pretend that he was being sexually harassed by Kate to squeeze more money out of the show.  

I do not believe his best friend story just because he never mentioned this earth shattering revelation before. I mean, if people were looking for a spouse for you would you not mention you are sensitive to drinking because of tragedy?

I think Kate is honestly very attracted to him and does think this will work out, because he can be very nice to her face. He probably says things like “I’m not attracted to you but you are beautiful and it could come later.” to give her false hope.

Luke said in his talking head that he has these side hustles because he had bought "too much car". (I was like, "Really? Did he not know better?") 

Regarding whether Luke is or is not abusive - He crossed the line when he had insinuated to the producers that Kate was drinking too much. Then when confronted on camera (in front of Dr. Pepper, so it was within a "safe space"), he backed off of those claims. If Kate really does have a drinking problem, then there should be a legitimate concern for Luke's safety (and Kate's safety) and that may have been a sufficient reason to stop the experiment. It's not good for Luke to back off the claims if what he said is true, because it'll be a disservice to him and Kate. On the other hand. if Luke had exaggerated Kate's alleged drinking problem to the producers because he's desperate for an out, then not only is it a douche thing to do, that's a slanderous thing to do. Like Kate said, Philly is a big city that feels more like small town, so it's reckless to make those claims without receipts (which Luke hesitated to produce).

I'm not even going to go into his story about the high school friend who was killed by the drunk driver...

On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 10:26 PM, Soup333 said:

He actually did apologize to her about what he told the producers. But he was on camera so chances were it was all for show. 

That's not the first time Luke acted all big and bad away from the cameras, but backed down when confronted by an expert in front of the cameras. He did that too when Pastor Cal called him out.

Edited February 17, 2019 by discoprincessthe2

[humbleopinion]

Someone needs to tell AJ that decreeing a blanket apology for future tantrums is crap...

Asking for forgiveness is only good in the moment...not some warning to Sexy AF that he is going to be a butthole in the future when he is hangry or his Pampers are in a bunch because she asks him a question he is didn't anticipate....

[LuvMyShows]

On 2/16/2019 at 12:30 PM, Soup333 said:

Does Kate have to be physically assaulted or yelled at before it qualifies as abuse? If any of us were in a relationship and the other person said and did these things, would you consider it abuse or just brush it off as nothing? 

But there are far more options than considering his behavior abuse or just brushing it off as nothing!

[Ilovepie]

On 2/16/2019 at 9:30 AM, Soup333 said:

If any of us were in a relationship and the other person said and did these things, would you consider it abuse or just brush it off as nothing? 

I don’t think it’s an either/or. I am one of ones saying I don’t think he’s abusive. I would certainly not brush it off.  I wonder if people are calling it abuse because she seems beaten down by this garbage? I wouldn’t be- I would have given as good as I got and then I would have been out of there after the “Repulsed and Dead Inside” comment. We would have parted ways at the airport after touching down from Costa Rica. Maybe they are forced to continue filming, but I would have pulled a Jon. As far I would be concerned, the experiment would be over. Watching her continue to hit her head against this brick wall is frustrating. She barely registers annoyance let alone rage, which is what I would be feeling. Maybe people’s feelings about the abuse is about how they would feel? In this instance I just don’t think I would care enough about him at that point to be super hurt, and any hopefulness in that situation would have been killed by that comment.

[aphroditewitch]

22 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

I don’t think it’s an either/or. I am one of ones saying I don’t think he’s abusive. I would certainly not brush it off.  I wonder if people are calling it abuse because she seems beaten down by this garbage? I wouldn’t be- I would have given as good as I got and then I would have been out of there after the “Repulsed and Dead Inside” comment. We would have parted ways at the airport after touching down from Costa Rica. Maybe they are forced to continue filming, but I would have pulled a Jon. As far I would be concerned, the experiment would be over. Watching her continue to hit her head against this brick wall is frustrating. She barely registers annoyance let alone rage, which is what I would be feeling. Maybe people’s feelings about the abuse is about how they would feel? In this instance I just don’t think I would care enough about him at that point to be super hurt, and any hopefulness in that situation would have been killed by that comment.

Abuse is not about people's feelings about it though, which is why a person can be subjected to abusive behavior and not necessarily recognize it as abuse. Abuse is about the action or words of the abuser. It does not matter if those words are dismissed as nonsense or hurt the intended target or not.

[Drogo]

Mod note: 

Move on.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

About the contract issue - I agree with this:

On 2/17/2019 at 12:25 PM, discoprincessthe2 said:

It's interesting that we haven't see any other bride after the Miami season tap out early when it was apparent that it wasn't going to work (e.g. Danielle from Chicago and Molly from Boston. I've seen speculation that the participants are contractually bound for the 8 weeks, and Kate may not be able to take the [financial] hit from that. Luke said in his talking head that he has these side hustles because he had bought "too much car". (I was like, "Really? Did he not know better?")  

If Kate really does have a drinking problem, then there should be a legitimate concern for Luke's safety (and Kate's safety)... 

I'm pretty sure the thing about Kate having a "drinking problem" was a Puke-lie, and/or Puke has noticed that when Kate is around him, she tends to drink. 

I don't think I have a drinking problem --but if I had to live with a man like Puke and sleep in the same bed with him, it would take a lot of booze to be even sort of OK with that!!  

Edited February 18, 2019 by Crazy Bird Lady

[Claire Voyant]

4 hours ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

About the contract issue - I agree with this:

I'm pretty sure the thing about Kate having a "drinking problem" was a Puke-lie, and/or Puke has noticed that when Kate is around him, she tends to drink. 

I don't think I have a 'drinking problem --but if I had to live with a man like Puke and sleep in the same bed with him, it would take me a lot of booze to be even sort of OK with that!!

I wonder how many women eventually become alcoholics because they feel they can't afford to break things off with the men they've married?!  

Self-medicating, I think it's called.   I'd set the alarm just to wake up so I could drink some more for fear I might sober up. 

As a poster on these boards once so eloquently said, "I couldn't be drunk enough or dead enough" to sleep with a guy who skeeved me out.  Puke gives me the heebie jeebies.   He's got some nasty issues I sure wouldn't be dealing with for any length of time. 

Color me confused as to why Kate is allowing him to "cuddle".  Be a cold day in hell....

Edited February 18, 2019 by Claire Voyant
clarity

[humbleopinion]

Kate did seem loopy when her cheese plate friends were trying to wake her up to Puke’s nastiness.

This basic cable version of Kate has to be maddening to her gfs as she laughed inappropriately when relaying that Puke tells her”all the time” that he is not attracted to her.

Nothing is getting through her fog....why none of them said W...T...F  is wrong with you? Must have been edited out by the producers....

Puke+ Kate segments suck.

Edited February 19, 2019 by humbleopinion

[humbleopinion]

Kate's turning the other cheek to Puke's vile insult, her gullibility to accept Puke's lame excuses for personal insults, gladly accepting his apologies despite her friends' questioning her sanity... bothers and bugs the bejeebers out of the viewing audience when they see her cozying up to him in bed, attempting to snuggle with him and arms around him and looking up admirably at him in a girlish and flirty way...barf....yak...barf

Neither of them are good enough actors to make us buy what those 2 are selling...

Kate is complicit and for her own reasons or in her confusion or for lack of common sense have chosen to stay, play and pretend to be a loving partner to Puke.

We will watch it but we don't like it....even the snarkiest amongst us know that Puke's continued dastardly deeds and Kate's sheep behavior crosses the line...

Puke has chosen to slyly demean and cut Kate off at the legs every chance he can to make himself look awesome because Kate takes a kicking and keeps on coming back for more with no push back.

Edited February 19, 2019 by humbleopinion

[discoprincessthe2]

12 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Kate did seem loopy when her cheese plate friends were trying to wake her up to Puke’s nastiness.

This basic cable version of Kate has to be maddening to her gfs as she laughed inappropriately when relaying that Puke tells her”all the time” that he is not attracted to her.

Nothing is getting through her fog....why none of them said W...T...F  is wrong with you? Must have been edited out by the producers....

Puke+ Kate segments suck.

This is very plausible. 

Edited February 19, 2019 by discoprincessthe2

[ShowFan]

On 2/13/2019 at 10:57 PM, Jack Sampson said:

What happens when someone gets curious about the Forbidden Folder of Mystery?

Nobody in my family has patience for that

[ShowFan]

On 2/16/2019 at 1:05 PM, stuckin60s said:

it always appreared in Kates talking head, that she was tipsy. 

She always speaks like she is in a haze of a some sort 

[Mazzy]

Just discovering this forum. Everyone seems to really hate Luke, which I understand. He should have left long before now. It was obvious from the wedding day that he had no interest in Kate, from the moment he said "I know this girl" from one of his date night events.

Where I differ from the thoughts of others is that Kate is completely without any responsibility here. It's HER life. Is she truly this naive?? Maybe. He flat out said he isn't attracted to her. He told her that openly and straight forward, so despite the excuses she tries to make to tell herself that he really does want to be with her, he is telling her point blank she's not his type. I don't know about other commentors, but for me, if someone shows interest that I'm not attracted to at least a little/that they have at least SOME attributes that I find attractive, then I know I'm not going to magically become attracted to them later. Has Kate experienced this, where she doesn't find someone attractive at all and then magically becomes attracted to them later? If so, okay fine then I can understand why she thinks it might happen for someone else, but if not, then she's actively and purposefully lying to herself and taking no responsibility for the direction of her own life by continuing this farce.

[Mazzy]

On 2/16/2019 at 10:27 AM, aphroditewitch said:

Luke has gone beyond behavior that is simply "not nice". He tried to ruin Kate's reputation by calling her an alcoholic despite not giving any evidence. People have criticized Kate for being overly invested in Luke despite not knowing him very long. But the same goes for him. He is very hell bent on hurting Kate despite not having a history with her. What is Luke's motivation to try and destroy a woman he barely knows? Why is he determined to make her seem like an alcoholic? There is something seriously wrong with him if he feels the need to go out of this way to do those things to someone he only has to deal with for a short period of time. For all the people saying that Kate can just leave, the same also goes for Luke. If he finds Kate so awful to live with, he could state that and go. But instead he pulls these stunts like telling her he feels dead inside and trying to make her out to be an alcoholic. 

I think what's truly "wrong" with Luke is that he feels utterly trapped. He doesn't like Kate. It's not her fault BUT, as much as he is a douche for other reasons, not being physically or mentally attracted to someone isn't his fault either. And when the experts were confronted with their complete failure on the part of this pairing, Pastor Kal went on the attack, telling Luke to "man up". Hey there pot, meet kettle! Maybe Pastor Kal should man up as well and say point blank that they did a horrible job with this pairing and got it wrong instead of attacking a client that he failed.

[Soup333]

3 hours ago, Mazzy said:

I think what's truly "wrong" with Luke is that he feels utterly trapped. He doesn't like Kate. It's not her fault BUT, as much as he is a douche for other reasons, not being physically or mentally attracted to someone isn't his fault either. And when the experts were confronted with their complete failure on the part of this pairing, Pastor Kal went on the attack, telling Luke to "man up". Hey there pot, meet kettle! Maybe Pastor Kal should man up as well and say point blank that they did a horrible job with this pairing and got it wrong instead of attacking a client that he failed.

The thing is, Pastor Cal wasn’t sure about them. He wasn’t pushing for this pairing, iirc. He said that they might be a good match, “if Luke is attracted to her.” 

We don’t know why Kate is staying. Could be it’s all to fulfill her contract and she really checked out long ago and only shows up to film. Could be she genuinely has hope. We can’t really say for sure. 

What we can say for SURE is that Luke has treated her like crap on more than one occasion. Things we didn’t hear/see on screen have been confirmed through both Luke and Kate. He’s not denying the repulsed and dead inside. Not denying saying she has a drinking problem. We’ve seen him say questionably cruel things (depending on your mileage) and according to her, he’s told her he’s not attracted to her on multiple occasions. 

I believe the frustration with Kate is because a lot of viewers would have been out of there by now. Kate is stupid, desperate, has low self-esteem, perpetually loopy/drunk, victim of long-standing abuse from past relationships/her father - the list goes on. I think the reason people are trying to understand her reason because they’d have been gone because Luke is shit. That’s always what it circles back to. Even people who wouldn’t characterize his behavior officially as abuse would have left the marriage. Why? Because he’s a scumbag.

[Mazzy]

10 hours ago, Soup333 said:

We don’t know why Kate is staying. Could be it’s all to fulfill her contract and she really checked out long ago and only shows up to film. Could be she genuinely has hope. We can’t really say for sure. 

What we can say for SURE is that Luke has treated her like crap on more than one occasion. Things we didn’t hear/see on screen have been confirmed through both Luke and Kate. He’s not denying the repulsed and dead inside. Not denying saying she has a drinking problem. We’ve seen him say questionably cruel things (depending on your mileage) and according to her, he’s told her he’s not attracted to her on multiple occasions. 

I completely agree that Luke has been horrible, but if we are taking Luke at his word and judging him then should we do the same for Kate instead of saying we don't know why she's staying? Kate is saying, on camera, that she wants it to work out. She says she wants to stay in the marriage so why would it just be contractual for her and we shouldn't take her words seriously, but for Luke we should? I think Kate is being willfully ignorant here and while Luke is a shit and a half, Kate is openly staying with and trying to force someone who isn't attracted to her to stay with her. They are both F'd in my book.

[aphroditewitch]

15 hours ago, Mazzy said:

I think what's truly "wrong" with Luke is that he feels utterly trapped. He doesn't like Kate. It's not her fault BUT, as much as he is a douche for other reasons, not being physically or mentally attracted to someone isn't his fault either. And when the experts were confronted with their complete failure on the part of this pairing, Pastor Kal went on the attack, telling Luke to "man up". Hey there pot, meet kettle! Maybe Pastor Kal should man up as well and say point blank that they did a horrible job with this pairing and got it wrong instead of attacking a client that he failed.

The experts don't really match the couples, the producers so. If Luke feels trapped, that is on him, he signed up for the show show knowing that attraction  to the match is not guaranteed. No one said he has to be attracted to her. The attraction issue is a red herring. This is a behavioral issue. The way he is treating Kate is unacceptable. No one is forcing him to say cruel things to her or publicly trash her reputation. He could have just chosen to be an adult about things and be platonic about it until the the weeks were over then they could go their separate ways. But instead he chose to be abusive and lash out at Kate. 

[Soup333]

1 hour ago, Mazzy said:

I completely agree that Luke has been horrible, but if we are taking Luke at his word and judging him then should we do the same for Kate instead of saying we don't know why she's staying? Kate is saying, on camera, that she wants it to work out. She says she wants to stay in the marriage so why would it just be contractual for her and we shouldn't take her words seriously, but for Luke we should? I think Kate is being willfully ignorant here and while Luke is a shit and a half, Kate is openly staying with and trying to force someone who isn't attracted to her to stay with her. They are both F'd in my book.

I am taking him at his word. He said he was repulsed and dead inside and said Kate had a problem with alcohol.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

5 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

I am taking him at his word. He said he was repulsed and dead inside and said Kate had a problem with alcohol.

I completely agree --but I think Kate's "problem with alcohol" is named Luke.

[Mazzy]

23 hours ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

I completely agree --but I think Kate's "problem with alcohol" is named Luke.

I also don't believe Kate has a drinking problem. I still believe though that a trapped animal tries to claw it's way out and I think Luke's horribleness is seeing that in action in a human being. He doesn't try to kiss her or do anything with her and yet she tries to kiss him. He leads her on by trying to play the role of "nice guy" on occasions, but honestly the fact that he is only in that role rarely shows how deluded Kate is. She is creating a fantasy where this guy likes her but he openly tells her he doesn't. He openly tells her he isn't attracted to her and she tries to kiss him.

Don't get me wrong, Luke has been horrible to her and I know that. But Kate is a straight mess in her own right. Luke clearly likes outgoing women and Kate is shy. Luke clearly likes a completely different look than what Kate has. That doesn't mean she's ugly, just that she's not his type, and again, he openly states that but Kate doesn't seem to hear it.

I believe Luke wanted to hear Pastor Cal tell him it was okay to walk away. Maybe that makes Luke a pansy, or maybe he just isn't super self-assured, or maybe he genuinely needed that person to tell him his feelings - or lack of them - were valid and it was okay to know this wasn't right and walk away. Pastor Cal is supposed to be the "expert" and supposed to be a counselor of sorts to these couples, and IMO it was unacceptable for Cal to react the way he did. NOT in the condemnation of Luke for saying such mean things to Kate, but for angrily demanding that Luke either accept this or get out in a way that IMO came off more like "you better get in line and learn to be interested in this woman!!" I think Luke needed validation of his feelings so he didn't feel like a total shit and instead he got basically called less than a man if he acknowledged his feelings. And I think that is why we are still watching this train wreck. That, or, it's all for the ratings. It could be either thing on a reality show. 

[aphroditewitch]

13 hours ago, Mazzy said:

I also don't believe Kate has a drinking problem. I still believe though that a trapped animal tries to claw it's way out and I think Luke's horribleness is seeing that in action in a human being. He doesn't try to kiss her or do anything with her and yet she tries to kiss him. He leads her on by trying to play the role of "nice guy" on occasions, but honestly the fact that he is only in that role rarely shows how deluded Kate is. She is creating a fantasy where this guy likes her but he openly tells her he doesn't. He openly tells her he isn't attracted to her and she tries to kiss him.

Don't get me wrong, Luke has been horrible to her and I know that. But Kate is a straight mess in her own right. Luke clearly likes outgoing women and Kate is shy. Luke clearly likes a completely different look than what Kate has. That doesn't mean she's ugly, just that she's not his type, and again, he openly states that but Kate doesn't seem to hear it.

I believe Luke wanted to hear Pastor Cal tell him it was okay to walk away. Maybe that makes Luke a pansy, or maybe he just isn't super self-assured, or maybe he genuinely needed that person to tell him his feelings - or lack of them - were valid and it was okay to know this wasn't right and walk away. Pastor Cal is supposed to be the "expert" and supposed to be a counselor of sorts to these couples, and IMO it was unacceptable for Cal to react the way he did. NOT in the condemnation of Luke for saying such mean things to Kate, but for angrily demanding that Luke either accept this or get out in a way that IMO came off more like "you better get in line and learn to be interested in this woman!!" I think Luke needed validation of his feelings so he didn't feel like a total shit and instead he got basically called less than a man if he acknowledged his feelings. And I think that is why we are still watching this train wreck. That, or, it's all for the ratings. It could be either thing on a reality show. 

There is no evidence that Kate repeatedly tried to kiss Luke and an interview she gave refutes that she was the one pressuring him into anything.  It doesn't even seem that after the kiss on the honeymoon she initiated any type of intimacy with him outside of the producers getting them to cuddle in bed on camera. And since Luke has been caught in multiple lies, Kate is the one with credibility here.

 Being shy and introverted does not make Kate a mess. Nor does being vulnerable as a person. While I think she needs counseling, part of the reason she needs it is because of what has been done to her on the show. Kate has repeatedly acknowledged that she knows that Luke is not attracted to her. There is no evidence that she is trying to force the issue. I've seen various people claim that she wants Luke to fall in love with her and I do not see that, there is no evidence that she is genuinely hoping for a future with him or creating a fantasy. It has been pretty clear to me that she is just saying talking points the show gave her. There is no enthusiasm behind what she is saying, she just seems to be trying to get through her contract with the show.

 Pastor Cal cannot give someone an out on the show. He does not have the authority to rip up  Luke's contract. Also it has been well-known for several seasons that the experts are basically useless and don't interfere in much of anything. And Luke could have acted like an adult. No one is forcing him to act the way he has. He could have been an adult, been respectful to Kate, and spoken to Kate off camera about how they should just be platonic because he doesn't see this becoming romantic but they should play along with the producers enough to make it through their contracts. That is what an actual adult would have done. But Luke is not an adult.  He is an abusive garbage human who no person should ever have either a romantic or platonic relationship with. Which is why he repeatedly lashed out at Kate who does not have the power to end his contract. 

[Soup333]

15 hours ago, Mazzy said:

Don't get me wrong, Luke has been horrible to her and I know that. But Kate is a straight mess in her own right. Luke clearly likes outgoing women and Kate is shy. Luke clearly likes a completely different look than what Kate has. That doesn't mean she's ugly, just that she's not his type, and again, he openly states that but Kate doesn't seem to hear it.

I believe Luke wanted to hear Pastor Cal tell him it was okay to walk away. Maybe that makes Luke a pansy, or maybe he just isn't super self-assured, or maybe he genuinely needed that person to tell him his feelings - or lack of them - were valid and it was okay to know this wasn't right and walk away. Pastor Cal is supposed to be the "expert" and supposed to be a counselor of sorts to these couples, and IMO it was unacceptable for Cal to react the way he did. NOT in the condemnation of Luke for saying such mean things to Kate, but for angrily demanding that Luke either accept this or get out in a way that IMO came off more like "you better get in line and learn to be interested in this woman!!" I think Luke needed validation of his feelings so he didn't feel like a total shit and instead he got basically called less than a man if he acknowledged his feelings. And I think that is why we are still watching this train wreck. That, or, it's all for the ratings. It could be either thing on a reality show. 

Pastor Cal’s statement to Luke was along the lines of either get it together or else you need to get the hell out of here. I don’t see that as forcing attraction. And if I’m not mistaken he asked both of them if they wanted to continue. If Luke wanted an out that was his chance. Somebody tell me if I’m wrong about that. 

Also, regardless of what prince Luke wanted in a spouse he has no reason to treat Kate like he has. He signed up for this experiment knowing it was literally a grab bag and he was supposed to trust the experts (read: producers). 

[Mazzy]

On 2/24/2019 at 12:55 PM, aphroditewitch said:

There is no evidence that Kate repeatedly tried to kiss Luke and an interview she gave refutes that she was the one pressuring him into anything.  It doesn't even seem that after the kiss on the honeymoon she initiated any type of intimacy with him outside of the producers getting them to cuddle in bed on camera. And since Luke has been caught in multiple lies, Kate is the one with credibility here.

 Being shy and introverted does not make Kate a mess. Nor does being vulnerable as a person. While I think she needs counseling, part of the reason she needs it is because of what has been done to her on the show. Kate has repeatedly acknowledged that she knows that Luke is not attracted to her. There is no evidence that she is trying to force the issue. I've seen various people claim that she wants Luke to fall in love with her and I do not see that, there is no evidence that she is genuinely hoping for a future with him or creating a fantasy. It has been pretty clear to me that she is just saying talking points the show gave her. There is no enthusiasm behind what she is saying, she just seems to be trying to get through her contract with the show.

 Pastor Cal cannot give someone an out on the show. He does not have the authority to rip up  Luke's contract. Also it has been well-known for several seasons that the experts are basically useless and don't interfere in much of anything. And Luke could have acted like an adult. No one is forcing him to act the way he has. He could have been an adult, been respectful to Kate, and spoken to Kate off camera about how they should just be platonic because he doesn't see this becoming romantic but they should play along with the producers enough to make it through their contracts. That is what an actual adult would have done. But Luke is not an adult.  He is an abusive garbage human who no person should ever have either a romantic or platonic relationship with. Which is why he repeatedly lashed out at Kate who does not have the power to end his contract. 

With all respect, I feel like you are kinda writing your own script here. Kate said, out of her own mouth, that she has tried to kiss Luke and didn't realize it was bothering him so. Kate said out of her own mouth that she wants it to work out. You are saying "oh, well she doesn't mean it". ?? Based on what? by that logic we could argue that Luke is making it all up at the direction of the show as well. It's a completely made up statement of wannabe truth rather than any actual knowledge of the situation outside of what we see with our own eyes and hear with our own ears from the participants. Kate says she desperately wants this to work out. Kate says she was trying to force-kiss Luke.

I don't think Kate's a mess because she's shy. I think she's a mess because she wants a man who doesn't want her, and although I think we all find ourselves in that situation at some point in our lives (unrequited love), it usually isn't in our adult years and it certainly isn't with such high stakes as trying to force a loveless marriage.

[aphroditewitch]

2 minutes ago, Mazzy said:

With all respect, I feel like you are kinda writing your own script here. Kate said, out of her own mouth, that she has tried to kiss Luke and didn't realize it was bothering him so. Kate said out of her own mouth that she wants it to work out. You are saying "oh, well she doesn't mean it". ?? Based on what? by that logic we could argue that Luke is making it all up at the direction of the show as well. It's a completely made up statement of wannabe truth rather than any actual knowledge of the situation outside of what we see with our own eyes and hear with our own ears from the participants. Kate says she desperately wants this to work out. Kate says she was trying to force-kiss Luke.

I don't think Kate's a mess because she's shy. I think she's a mess because she wants a man who doesn't want her, and although I think we all find ourselves in that situation at some point in our lives (unrequited love), it usually isn't in our adult years and it certainly isn't with such high stakes as trying to force a loveless marriage.

Except that isn't what she said. She said that they had been cuddling in bed and that it felt natural to kiss him. However she never said that happened more than once. So like I said, there is no evidence that it is something that continued to happen after the "repulsed and dead inside" moment. She also never once said she tried to forcibly kiss him. I'm basing this on an interview Kate recently gave where she clearly states she was not pressuring Luke into anything, that the producers were. Also it is not a made up statement to say that Kate's words appear to be producer created, especially the words are very similar to ones that have been spoken in past seasons and when her eyes and facial expressions don't match what is being said. She even said when meeting with Dr. Pepper that she did not feel she was pressuring him but apologized. But that speaks to something else brought up on Unfiltered, Luke does something terrible to Kate and then tries to make himself out to be the victim, the same thing he did after making up lies about her drinking but then telling her a manipulative story about an alleged dead friend. And when Kate's own words on Unfiltered and in other interviews confirm that she was not the one pressuring Luke, I'm going to go with that because Kate is not the one who has been caught in numerous lies an manipulative acts. Words are also questionable when we see Luke say that he cares about Kate, but it is clearly not true because his actions say otherwise. Looking beyond words matters. It is not creating a narrative, it is looking at the whole picture. 

I don't think Kate loves Luke and there is not evidence that she does. I also question if she actually wants him or wants to be with him because the one good thing Dr. Pepper did on Unfiltered was point out how Kate's personality changed from being happy and bubbly during casting to being unhappy and withdrawn. None of that sounds like a person in love. It doesn't even sound like a woman with a crush. 

We also know that Luke has lied multiple times on the show, to the point that Dr. Pepper said he was not an honest guy and he is manipulative and sends mixed signals to Kate with a reward and punish method. Kate said he was dishonest. She said that after he lied about her drinking that she felt bullied and like he had slapped her in the face. In an interview she talked about how watching their scenes was difficult and brought her back to a time that she was sad. She said he was treating her poorly. 

[Mazzy]

20 hours ago, aphroditewitch said:

Except that isn't what she said. She said that they had been cuddling in bed and that it felt natural to kiss him. However she never said that happened more than once. So like I said, there is no evidence that it is something that continued to happen after the "repulsed and dead inside" moment. She also never once said she tried to forcibly kiss him. I'm basing this on an interview Kate recently gave where she clearly states she was not pressuring Luke into anything, that the producers were. Also it is not a made up statement to say that Kate's words appear to be producer created, especially the words are very similar to ones that have been spoken in past seasons and when her eyes and facial expressions don't match what is being said. She even said when meeting with Dr. Pepper that she did not feel she was pressuring him but apologized.

We are interpreting this differently then. The "dead inside" thing happened prior to this current moment where Kate was in bed with Luke and said it felt natural to kiss him. Clearly it didn't feel natural to Luke. Again, I know this sounds like I'm defending Luke and I'm truly not. His actions are repulsive. But I"m also not going to pretend reality isn't real (according to what we are seeing on the show) when Kate says she felt it was natural so she tried to kiss Luke. If he didn't want it then that is a forced action on the part of the instigator, which was Kate. Just because she thought it felt natural doesn't mean it's okay. I don't think you'd accept that excuse from a guy if the girl didn't want to be kissed. And this didn't happen prior to the "dead inside" thing so this is where I feel some people are making up their own storyline for these two that isn't based in the reality we actually see play out on the show but instead in a world where Kate is perfect and not a messed up nutjob and Luke is the devil and even when he actively stays clear of Kate as far as pretending he feels something he doesn't, somehow Kate's actions are blamed on Luke. I'll stick to thinking they are both a mess: Luke because he doens't want this and is stupidly staying in it, and Kate because she's desperate. I don't know if her desperation is due to past relationships or daddy issues or wanting to start a family now or what but it shows and even her friends gave her the side eye when she started talking to them about her relationship and blowing off serious problems as if they were just nothing to be concerned with.