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S23.E06: Week 6 - Vietnam


OnceSane
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3 hours ago, TiredMe said:

When I lose my virginity, it’s going to be tender and passionate and be the best thing she’s felt. giphy.gif

LOL, way too put pressure on yourself, Colton. It's going to be the best thing she's ever experienced, is it? I kinda doubt that. 

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3 hours ago, Andromeda said:

LOL, way too put pressure on yourself, Colton. It's going to be the best thing she's ever experienced, is it? I kinda doubt that. 

That was so fucking gross.  No Colton, it’s going to be two minutes of awkward fumbling. 

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6 hours ago, Andromeda said:

LOL, way too put pressure on yourself, Colton. It's going to be the best thing she's ever experienced, is it? I kinda doubt that. 

Yeah, the overnight should be renamed the I just need a minute, if that's his plan........

Edited by bosawks
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7 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Loved Sidney's sexy black lace dress thing.  I know everyone thinks Sidney is the bee's knees and all - also I venture to guess she's half Asian or half Latina? - 

I'm glad someone else saw the Asian look.  I kept wondering who she reminded me of and finally realized she has the same face as a classic Asian beauty seen in tons of Japanese art.

10 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

I'm unspoiled but hate when the show previews who goes hometown before the epi airs. Thanks, show, for showing Hannah Beast on a hometown and apparently on a fantasy suite date.

And what the heck was up with Cassie leaving in a car? Thought for sure she was in the final 2.

 I was so angry! I'm not spoiled either but the show seems to have given the entire Cassie story away and the "who gets a hometown" episode used to be fairly suspenseful but that's all over. 

Although, come to think of it, one of the twins got to meet the Bachelor's family simply as part of a one on one because the fam was in the area. 

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I'm watching this now. The most intriguing thing so far is that quick scene of the crabs scuttling on the beach right before the first rose ceremony.  Let's see who's kept:

Caelynn, Tayshia, Kirpa (and her bandaid), Demi (she's so funny), Hannah G., Katie, and . . . . . . . Sydney!

Colton must have decided to cut someone else, then changed his mind after the argument.

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Nothing beats Caelynn gossiping about Hannah saying she must have relied on her looks her entire life to get by... as she has been in BEAUTY pageants her whole life. I actually don't really find Caelynn to be that pretty.. but just my opinion. And Hannah B.. is entertaining but in an extremely creepy way... That beast face she makes every episode is interesting to say the least lol.

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1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

I'm glad someone else saw the Asian look.  I kept wondering who she reminded me of and finally realized she has the same face as a classic Asian beauty seen in tons of Japanese art.

 I was so angry! I'm not spoiled either but the show seems to have given the entire Cassie story away and the "who gets a hometown" episode used to be fairly suspenseful but that's all over. 

Although, come to think of it, one of the twins got to meet the Bachelor's family simply as part of a one on one because the fam was in the area. 

Keep in mind that previews can make anything look one way, but turns out not to be the reality due to clever editing.  

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9 hours ago, bequialife said:

Ya, well how old are they?  In this day and age marrying your high school sweetheart doesn't work, not with all the opportunities in the world to explore.  Plus we live till our mid/late 90's nowadays.  Can't be with one person for 80 years, for sure not happily.  

One of my closest friends is married to his high school sweetheart when they were 20 - they're both well into the 50s, almost 60.

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I was rather surprised when Colton gave Kirpa a rose during their 1 on 1.  I thought she was kind of boring and definitely got the impression that she wasn't even interested in him.    

Hannah G is so beautiful and I'm hoping she'll be the next B-ette.  Although it makes me wonder how she could possibly still be single.

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10 hours ago, bequialife said:

Kirpa is only 26 and was already in an 8 year relationship?  Meaning she was 17 or 18 when it started?  Not very healthy.  

I thought it was strange that she was using that conversation to justify why she’d be comfortable dating a virgin. I didn’t know how old she was, but she looks really young. Basically she was making it seem like she was already the way more experienced person in that relationship almost 10 years ago. And I started to worry that she had lost her virginity when she was 12 or something.

Also, she told Colton his situation was so similar because her ex was really religious and was saving himself for marriage. Colt responded that it kind of wasn’t the same because he’s not staying away from sex because of religion or anything like that and isn’t saving himself for marriage and Kirpa was kind of just like yeah, yeah whatever. Same diff. They really weren’t listening to each other at all.

These are the things I contemplate while watching the show: How many adult women in America are wearing their blonde hair down to their butt? Did Colton specifically ask the casting agents for blonde women with hair down to their butts? How did the casting agents go about finding these women? Did they look for butt length hair. Their hair isn’t even really styled or anything, it’s just hanging there... to their butt. I don’t know, it’s not really a thing in NYC, so I don’t often see this look. Interesting.

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Demi still seems like she's a little kid playing at being a grownup, even in her seduction scene. It's like she's reciting her lines from a script.

Holy smokes! He is saying good-bye to Demi! I feel kind of sorry for her. But she'll have a long and happy career on Paradise. There's always Chris B.

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15 hours ago, ECM1231 said:

I'm unspoiled but hate when the show previews who goes hometown before the epi airs. Thanks, show, for showing Hannah Beast on a hometown and apparently on a fantasy suite date.

And what the heck was up with Cassie leaving in a car? Thought for sure she was in the final 2.

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

 I was so angry! I'm not spoiled either but the show seems to have given the entire Cassie story away and the "who gets a hometown" episode used to be fairly suspenseful but that's all over. 

Although, come to think of it, one of the twins got to meet the Bachelor's family simply as part of a one on one because the fam was in the area. 

This is why I avoid the "coming up this season on...," "coming up later this season..." and sometimes even "on the next episode..." type previews.  People on the Survivor forum are so serious about it that there's actually a "Preview Rule" over there:  

There is NO preview talk in the [Survivor] episode threads.  While not hard-core spoilers, previews contain information for the next episode that many of our posters avoid purposely.  To then accidentally read about the preview in the episode thread ruins the experience for them.  We have a separate thread for [Survivor] Previews and (non-spoiler) Speculation here.   Please take all preview talk there.

ETA:  I just checked and The Amazing Race forum has the same rule. 

Edited by MMLEsq
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12 hours ago, tinkerbell said:

The group date where women box/wrestle/roller derby is an ongoing theme on The Bachelor.  I don't get it.  And after the date Colton says how much fun he had.   I know they do it on The Bachelorette too, but to me, there's something perverted about the Bachelor and the production team watching women try to beat each other up. 

If I can get serious for a minute. Honestly I think it's the show's "man in the mirror" moment. When we (and the contestants) are faced with the ugly physically brutal reality of the emotional and psychological fight these women are going through in this competition. Willingly, but still ugly.

When we can't see it, we can ignore it, but not when we can. It makes us uncomfortable, but really no less than we probably should already be watching this bloodsport (of sorts). And I think the producers just like having that one moment of "look at yourself" in all the fluff. 

And then back to the woe is me bachelor, sniping runners ups and never was's, forced-fun group dates, fake love declarations and PTV snark. And I'm here for all of it!

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What threw me about Kirpa’s comment is that she is 26, was in an 8 year relationship, and then said the breakup was such that she hadn’t wanted to commit or open up or whatever she said “for a long time.”  I need her to define “long” here because more than 1 (maybe 2) year and she is talking about being a child, which just seems crazy to me.

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1 hour ago, lids said:

I thought it was strange that she was using that conversation to justify why she’d be comfortable dating a virgin. I didn’t know how old she was, but she looks really young. Basically she was making it seem like she was already the way more experienced person in that relationship almost 10 years ago. And I started to worry that she had lost her virginity when she was 12 or something.

Also, she told Colton his situation was so similar because her ex was really religious and was saving himself for marriage. Colt responded that it kind of wasn’t the same because he’s not staying away from sex because of religion or anything like that and isn’t saving himself for marriage and Kirpa was kind of just like yeah, yeah whatever. Same diff. They really weren’t listening to each other at all.

These are the things I contemplate while watching the show: How many adult women in America are wearing their blonde hair down to their butt? Did Colton specifically ask the casting agents for blonde women with hair down to their butts? How did the casting agents go about finding these women? Did they look for butt length hair. Their hair isn’t even really styled or anything, it’s just hanging there... to their butt. I don’t know, it’s not really a thing in NYC, so I don’t often see this look. Interesting.

I think a more accurate question may be:  How many adult women in America, on reality shows, are wearing their blonde hair down to their butt.

I've found that women being cast on this type of show have a higher incidence of breast implants, hair extensions, botox, and blindingly white veneers.  It's why I appreciated Becca on Arie's season, because she didn't seem to adhere to those rules.  It's almost like a "to do" list the producers hand out to the cast.

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OK, I never watch this show but was taking a break from snow shoveling and it was on. I saw Hannah G's date with Colton. She's just real eye candy, Isn't she?  Then she started in on her parent's divorce and her mother driving over her Dad's manicured lawn....and she seemed like she was 12 years old. Colton had to kind of frame the take away for her, she seemed to lack much emotional vocabulary. 

And then I had to shovel again. But it was odd and sweet at the same time. 

ETA: I am 63 and have butt length hair. But it's white. And I rarely see women of any age with really long hair. 

Edited by Quickbeam
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2 hours ago, lids said:

Did Colton specifically ask the casting agents for blonde women with hair down to their butts? How did the casting agents go about finding these women? Did they look for butt length hair. Their hair isn’t even really styled or anything, it’s just hanging there... to their butt.

I hate the universal hair style on this show. As Lids noted, it's all the same. So when a contestant with shorter hair or *shocker!* bangs is on, she stands out. Which means I can tell her apart from the flock of look-alike sheep. And IMO that's a good thing.

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When Demi went to talk to bed Colton did she have her best extensions in or something? At one point I remarked how long her hair was in that shot from behind. We'd seen her with long hair but not that long, right?

I can't imagine them all without their contacts in lashes on extensions in no makeup on. Would be quite the shocker I'd bet.

Edited by Wandering Snark
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I thought for sure Kirpa wasn’t going to get her date rose.  They had that same awkward silence that Never Been Kissed date had...bland comments about pretty scenery and how incredible the locale was.

But then I realized based on the formula that he still had to keep some easy eliminations coming up.  Pretty much all the ethnic girls stay in the beginning but there wasn’t a chance he was going to pick them.  Even Heather has to see that she is the blonde on the outs now.  Enjoy the free vacation.

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3 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

Demi still seems like she's a little kid playing at being a grownup, even in her seduction scene. It's like she's reciting her lines from a script.

This. As she was walking to her Deduction of Doom in Colton's room with all that hair and her teeny teen girl body, all I could picture was my Barbie's little sister Skipper doll or my Dawn doll (if that doesn't date me, nothing will) from when I was a kid. 

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1 hour ago, saber5055 said:

hate the universal hair style on this show. As Lids noted, it's all the same. So when a contestant with shorter hair or *shocker!* bangs is on, she stands out. Which means I can tell her apart from the flock of look-alike sheep. And IMO that's a good thing.

Remember the beautiful medium length, red-haired Elyse? She was gorgeous. Started strong but then cracked and tried to push Colton into a premature ultimatum and left in disgrace . . .

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4 hours ago, lids said:

These are the things I contemplate while watching the show: How many adult women in America are wearing their blonde hair down to their butt? Did Colton specifically ask the casting agents for blonde women with hair down to their butts? How did the casting agents go about finding these women? Did they look for butt length hair. Their hair isn’t even really styled or anything, it’s just hanging there... to their butt. I don’t know, it’s not really a thing in NYC, so I don’t often see this look. Interesting.

When I was 25, I had hair that long.  All mine, all natural, and I was the only one I knew with hair down to my waist.  it's never been a look that the majority of women have.   Most women just cannot grow it that long, each hair strand has a certain life, and then falls out, so your hair has a maximum length it will grow to. 

These women have extensions.  It's not their natural hair.  Sometimes you can tell who has extensions, but with the really expensive ones, it's harder to tell.  It's a weird thing, where society will see a face more attractive if it's attached to long blonde hair.  But generally, hair down to your shoulders is long, and adding extensions to that isn't going to make much difference.   I've never had extensions, but wouldn't it make all the swimming/snorkeling/hot-tubbing more difficult? 

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6 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Nothing beats Caelynn gossiping about Hannah saying she must have relied on her looks her entire life to get by... as she has been in BEAUTY pageants her whole life. I actually don't really find Caelynn to be that pretty.. but just my opinion. And Hannah B.. is entertaining but in an extremely creepy way... That beast face she makes every episode is interesting to say the least lol.

Carolynn has a brow ridge that I associate with a neanderthal or cro-magnon type.  It really showed up when they were under the bright lights at the RC and desperately in need of face powder or at least a tissue.  There was a blindingly white glare across her lower forehead.  Anyway, it wasn't a good look on her.  Blot, ladies, blot.

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"I feel like the luckiest guy in Vietnam..." --Colton.

Yeah, you are, dummy. Not that the country is terrible, but it is definitely not a very wealthy/glamorous country.

Edited by Aim123
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I do not like Caelynn.  I have no proof, but I am convinced she is a poop face.  And a Manipulative Hannah Hater.  She knows HBT, and that she has anxiety issues and tried to make her look bad.  

Sorry girls, but Hannah G is an otherworldly beauty.  She’s just shockingly gorgeous.  Though I prefer HBT and her self defense skills and chipmunk face.   Caelynn is a sniveling full house looking doody head, IMO.

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1 hour ago, tinkerbell said:

When I was 25, I had hair that long.  All mine, all natural, and I was the only one I knew with hair down to my waist.  it's never been a look that the majority of women have.   Most women just cannot grow it that long, each hair strand has a certain life, and then falls out, so your hair has a maximum length it will grow to. 

These women have extensions.  It's not their natural hair.  Sometimes you can tell who has extensions, but with the really expensive ones, it's harder to tell.  It's a weird thing, where society will see a face more attractive if it's attached to long blonde hair.  But generally, hair down to your shoulders is long, and adding extensions to that isn't going to make much difference.   I've never had extensions, but wouldn't it make all the swimming/snorkeling/hot-tubbing more difficult? 

Your hair has a maximum length it will grow to??   Really??   I've never heard that before.  I have lazy hair because I hate wasting time in a salon and I'm an athlete who lives in a pony tail.   I usually like my hair at shoulder length but haven't had it cut in 3 years and it's down my back.   Once it hits my waist it gets super annoying because you start sitting on it.  My balayage has grown out and I keep putting off making an appointment LOL

I've tried clip in extensions to put color in my head and they are super heavy.    Could never wear them IRL, only for fun events.   I'm sure woven in extensions are easier and/or lighter?

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I started reading this thread and forgot to mention I have no idea who Katie is.  24 hours later I still can't recall her.   Sad.

I think Demi has a really annoying baby voice.  I'm glad Colton sent her home.  I didn't believe her tears or profession of love.  It seemed too calculated to get to the end so she could become the next Bachelorette.   I also found the fact that she kept referring to her mom as "mommy" as disingenuous and rather grating.  I'm not sure why.   I'm sure plenty of adults call their moms mommy but her vocal affect made it seem even more juvenile.  And fake.

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7 hours ago, Dittohead said:

I was rather surprised when Colton gave Kirpa a rose during their 1 on 1.  I thought she was kind of boring and definitely got the impression that she wasn't even interested in him.    

I was actually surprised that Colton even kissed her and made out with her--Im sorry I know its the leads job, but it was so obvious there is nothing there and it was a bit mean of him to lead her on. Is it me or do the seasons seem so much quicker? there are still girls I dont know and next week they choose for hometowns? I think girls are bailing because he cant fake interest in them, except for a few. I dont know if thats good or bad to be honest. spares more feelings I suppose..

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7 hours ago, lids said:

I thought it was strange that she was using that conversation to justify why she’d be comfortable dating a virgin. I didn’t know how old she was, but she looks really young. Basically she was making it seem like she was already the way more experienced person in that relationship almost 10 years ago. And I started to worry that she had lost her virginity when she was 12 or something.

Also, she told Colton his situation was so similar because her ex was really religious and was saving himself for marriage. Colt responded that it kind of wasn’t the same because he’s not staying away from sex because of religion or anything like that and isn’t saving himself for marriage and Kirpa was kind of just like yeah, yeah whatever. Same diff. They really weren’t listening to each other at all.

These are the things I contemplate while watching the show: How many adult women in America are wearing their blonde hair down to their butt? Did Colton specifically ask the casting agents for blonde women with hair down to their butts? How did the casting agents go about finding these women? Did they look for butt length hair. Their hair isn’t even really styled or anything, it’s just hanging there... to their butt. I don’t know, it’s not really a thing in NYC, so I don’t often see this look. Interesting.

Good points.

And the hair...I don't get it either!  The long-haired gals all look alike.  All kinda common looking.

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This season is HORRIBLE. All young 21 year old girls . So tacky, beyond immature, all the ones w a sense of self LEFT!!! it’s cringe worthy to watch .. who’s going to be the bachelorette a 23 year old maybe wel havd 24 year old guys I mean seriously chris (BIG MISTAKE.. so many people are not even watching it.. bad enough the adult relationships fizzle ur asking a 21 year old to say I do lmaoooo after spending 72 hours in total with a guy .. tead Andis book.. the red head had the right mindset get the he’ll out of there .. 31 year old women in a house w babies  bye!!!! Worst bachelor ever ... I like Colton but he’s immature too and the girls not women on this show are way too young and the show is tasteless ... chris Harrison I’m sure this is the worst ratings bachelor has ever seen ... 

Edited by Jami
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I wholeheartedly agree. I didnt last as long as you did this season. I made it to hour 3 on the premiere night and I got so sick and tired of the virgin comments, jokes, etc., I turned the channel as I yelled at the tv I was done. Funny thing is, I don’t even miss the show. 

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I don't get the love for Hannah G. She is on the bottom in the looks department for me. If they made a puppet of Reese Witherspoon for Team America, Hannah G is what it would look like. Perfect to go along with Matt Damon's.

Bummed that Demi is gone but only for the entertainment factor. Wouldn't trust her to be a friend let alone a future wife. Very attractive though.

I think I'm rooting for Tayshia. She has had the most natural interactions with Colton on their dates and they make a believable couple. Elyse was my favorite of the original 30 so bummed she left earlier. Same with Sydney. The pageant girls and the rest are too immature overall. But then again, so is Colton or at least he is emotionally. 

I never watched the Bachelor but thought I would give it a shot this year. Overall it is pretty bad. I miss shows from the early 2000's like Average Joe, Beauty and the Geek, Joe Millionaire. Far more entertaining. The Bachelor plays out more like an instagram slush fund. It just feels dirty.

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19 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I'm glad someone else saw the Asian look.  I kept wondering who she reminded me of and finally realized she has the same face as a classic Asian beauty seen in tons of Japanese art.

 I was so angry! I'm not spoiled either but the show seems to have given the entire Cassie story away and the "who gets a hometown" episode used to be fairly suspenseful but that's all over. 

Although, come to think of it, one of the twins got to meet the Bachelor's family simply as part of a one on one because the fam was in the area. 

Also remember on Arie's season when he flew Krystal to Scotsdale to meet his family early on in the season on a one on one. Lots of comments about how odd and premature that was. And I don't trust the editing at all on this show. Misleading to say the least.

On 2/11/2019 at 8:05 PM, dizzyd said:

I thought we were promised no Tia! 😡

Yeah I noticed that too. Made sure she got her digs in at Arie and Colton didn't she? Wonder how much ass she had to kiss to get that spot?

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2 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

Also remember on Arie's season when he flew Krystal to Scotsdale to meet his family early on in the season on a one on one. Lots of comments about how odd and premature that was. And I don't trust the editing at all on this show. Misleading to say the least.

Oh, yeah, I’m guessing it’s a “let’s walk around my high school and reminisce about when I was a ‘big-time’ HS football player in a small town” date. NOT a spoiler, but they do that one a lot, and if the family still lives in town, there’s an obligatory meet the parents.

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7 hours ago, Happy Belly said:

I wholeheartedly agree. I didnt last as long as you did this season. I made it to hour 3 on the premiere night and I got so sick and tired of the virgin comments, jokes, etc., I turned the channel as I yelled at the tv I was done. Funny thing is, I don’t even miss the show. 

I gave up when it became clear how fake this season is. Every year I expect one “villain” and a couple weird/crazy girls but this season everything seems manufactured by producers. 

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Actually, I don't think it is half bad.  I actually think Colton has done a decent job, and I like that he tries to actually converse with them and start conversations.  I also like that he seems respectful in some ways.  I didn't expect to like the season, but I think since there isn't any girl that is completely overtaking the show, and there is some variety in the dates, etc, it is actually going okay for me.

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5 hours ago, alexa said:

Actually, I don't think it is half bad.  I actually think Colton has done a decent job, and I like that he tries to actually converse with them and start conversations.  I also like that he seems respectful in some ways.  I didn't expect to like the season, but I think since there isn't any girl that is completely overtaking the show, and there is some variety in the dates, etc, it is actually going okay for me.

I agree Colton has done a decent job.  I thought he would be much much worse but he's doing a good job at fulfilling the role he signed up for.    I mean he wanted to do this so at least we are seeing the fruits of his labor.   Arie in contrast was far more boring IMO.  I never saw Arie the first time so I didn't get the full scope of why he was there the second time.  

But I will agree that even as a newer viewer to this franchise that the whole thing seems really fake and producer driven.  I can see the producer plant to stir up stuff, just to keep it interesting.   But when so many of the contestants now have no other goals other than to be the next bachelor or bachelorette or to pump up their Instagram followers so they can get another gig or become a social media influencer,  it drops the entire premise of the this show which is to fall in love and get MARRIED.   This isn't travel the world and then find a boyfriend.   I'm never believing they are letting themselves seriously fall in love.  

Has this show been produced in other countries where they cast regular people and not just telegenic people?    I would think the quest to actually find love would be quite interesting.   I really am not offended if the girls are not blonde or a size 2 or are in that meaty range of attractiveness.   If anything to find people with charisma and real personalities to actually root for (or against) would be great as well......and one would think MUCH better TV.

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He really is a sweet guy. When the chicks aren't crazy (Hannah G, perfect, non-crazy example) he is a great conversationalist. He listens to what they say, is supportive, and peppers his responses with personal stories to make the other person feel connected. I wish he wasn't a famewhore. 

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5 minutes ago, Bethanne said:

I wish he wasn't a famewhore. 

This is why I'm still hoping he ends up with Cassie. They could live a Instagramed and wonderful public engagement together! They could live for quite a few months just running off the 'steam' of being on the Bachelor. And who knows, they might even last long enough to not have to return the rings to Neil Lane!

Edited by Wandering Snark
World's largest runon sentance...
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19 minutes ago, Bethanne said:

He really is a sweet guy. When the chicks aren't crazy (Hannah G, perfect, non-crazy example) he is a great conversationalist. He listens to what they say, is supportive, and peppers his responses with personal stories to make the other person feel connected. I wish he wasn't a famewhore. 

That is a good point...he does share more info than a lot of other leads have done, which I like.  He personalizes his discussions to the person, and he gives them a chance to get comfortable without discounting them immediately.  He also invites some on one on one dates to actually get to know them, which is nice.  Some of them I wonder why he invites them, but then they have a nice date together and he achieves his purpose of knowing them better.

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28 minutes ago, alexa said:

That is a good point...he does share more info than a lot of other leads have done, which I like.  He personalizes his discussions to the person, and he gives them a chance to get comfortable without discounting them immediately.  He also invites some on one on one dates to actually get to know them, which is nice.  Some of them I wonder why he invites them, but then they have a nice date together and he achieves his purpose of knowing them better.

I just finished the Kirpa date and I totally agree with this. I imagine he'll end this whole thing with a bunch of gal pals.  I actually like him and Kirpa together. She seems like she has the level of emotional maturity he is looking for, and she communicates about her feelings pretty well. And damn, she looked amazing in that black jumpsuit when she came back from the date. 

Edited by Bethanne
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6 hours ago, alexa said:

Actually, I don't think it is half bad.  I actually think Colton has done a decent job, and I like that he tries to actually converse with them and start conversations.  I also like that he seems respectful in some ways.  I didn't expect to like the season, but I think since there isn't any girl that is completely overtaking the show, and there is some variety in the dates, etc, it is actually going okay for me.

I agree.  Colour me very surprised.  Didn't think Colton's season would be good, and I've been enjoying myself just fine.  As long as nobody spoils the ending for me I'll consider this season one of the successes.

He seemed like a crybaby virgin on Becca's season so I (and a billion other people) thought this season would be horrible but I am okay with admitting I was very wrong.

I thought Jojo was incredibly sexy on Ben's season so I thought her season would be exciting; in contrast I found it, and her, pretty dull.

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3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

He seemed like a crybaby virgin on Becca's season so I (and a billion other people) thought this season would be horrible

For me what really soured me on his potential was his wishy-washyness on BiP, dragged down into the whole Tia situation. He's come at this with a different attitude which is good as I imagined I'd be out by now...

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