S07.E12: Emerald Archer

[SmallScreenDiva]

Well, that was shit. Felicity isolated for the most part. Waaaaaay to much NTA. Diggle again with the “we had each orher’s backs” like no one remembers him telling Felicity to go away. No real Olicity. No OTA. They didn’t even have a scene together. And Diggle sounded curt and annoyed at Felicity’s babbling, which passed me off more than I thought possible. Vigilantes as deputies. That’s dumb as hell.

@quarks from a writer’s perspective, why are they doing this??? This is not how vigilantes are supposed to be, right? The whole premise of the show seems to have been turned upside down. Oliver even told the mayor about how the vigilantes are needed because SCPD is not enough. But now they’re part of SCPD? 

[Writing Wrongs]

I don't know what the hell that was, but I don't think I liked it.

I wish the documentary part had been more like the X-Files episode, "X-Cops".

[apinknightmare]

Just now, BunsenBurner said:

Making them all cops is just stupid. 

This. This is what I hate the most about this whole episode. They took the plot twist I hated the most this season and quadrupled it! Please, sweet baby vigilante Jesus, let this be a plot to legitimize vigilantes and not a permanent thing. I weep.

[jay741982]

29 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I miss In Plain Sight.  Though she's pretty funny on The Kids Are Alright.  

Olicity and Dyla's kids being in witsec only works for me if their parents were able to join them most of the time.  I'm begging the universe not to make their childhoods dumpster fires.  

Since these writers are about making sure Oliver and Felicity suffer the most shove Dinah Rene Curtis down our throats I stand by my prediction that Maya was ripped from Oliver and Felicitys home at a very young age. Then they weren't able to reconnect in any form until Maya started working with Felicity. Her Anti Vilgante stance(which was there in her first appearance) is related to her parents I bet. She hates Them cause they took her from her mom and dad Or she thinks they killed them, hence her hatred of Dinah and the Canaries. I will say Maya is the most interesting character in the FFS IMO and the Secercy with her Character almost certainly has to be shes the Daughter of the main character/Main couple 

Edited February 5, 2019 by jay741982

[Chaser]

Deputized vigilantes are just cops in costumes. It makes the entire show pointless.

[GHScorpiosRule]

59 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

And OMG Diggle, you did NOT have Felicity's back at a very crucial time.  You probably did in getting her into Witness protection but when that failed, you abdicated all responsibility in her further protection or in helping her carry out the goals she needed accomplished to do the basic thing called staying alive.  So you having her back came with a distinct time limit.  And Oliver probably will never know.  

I told you so! I predicted this way back that Dig abandoning Felicity would be erased/swept under the rug and Oliver would never know his brother left Felicity to survive on her own and TOLD her to basically forget about Oliver and move on with her life. These Fucking writers, I swear.🤬🤬🤬🤬

Should I bother to watch?

[BkWurm1]

2 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Should I bother to watch?

It's not so bad you should avoid it  It's just so disappointing compared how it could have been.  

[Chaser]

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

It's not so bad you should avoid it  It's just so disappointing compared how it could have been.  

Arrow’s tagline. 

[JamieLynn832002]

17 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

And Diggle sounded curt and annoyed at Felicity’s babbling, which passed me off more than I thought possible.

Me too, the only way I can even be a little bit okay with it is if I pretend he was trying to protect her identity since the babbling is very much a Felicity trait that others might recognize instead of another example of John Diggle: Condescending Jackass Edition.

[lemotomato]

19 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Should I bother to watch?

The first 15 minutes-- when they were doing mostly the documentary stuff-- were good. After that, it became the NTA show featuring Oliver.

[Chaser]

I feel like MG was writing this episode with the thought that NTA was a wildly successful endeavor. 

This expanded TA is a lie. They haven’t redeemed themselves from S6. They didn’t have Oliver’s back, they weren’t there for his family. Who am I supposed to be cheering on cause right now I’m all for Future Felicity to burn it to the ground. 

[imusuallysweet]

1 hour ago, jay741982 said:

If Maya is Olicity baby I'm going with she doesnt know they are her parents and was taken from them at a very young age OR she thinks they are dead CAUSE of Vilgantes. They weren't kidding saying the Character would hate Vigilantes

I doubt she is their kid. At this point I’m totally expecting her to be related to somebody we’re not expecting like Black Siren. It is Arrow btw.

[jay741982]

1 minute ago, imusuallysweet said:

I doubt she is their kid. At this point I’m totally expecting her to be related to somebody we’re not expecting like Black Siren. It is Arrow btw.

And people really wont give a fuck If she was Black Siren child. Would be a waste. Cause shes reportedly a central new role. People would care if shes Olicity Baby. But I do get what u are saying. The writers torture Oliver and Felicity,  give NTA(Espically Dinah)Siren and Diaz more screen time than OTA. I just dont get why this is the only show I watch that actively doubles down on the Unpopular characters and sidelines popular characters! Rene Dinah and Curtis are NOT why this show has lasted this long.

[La Dee Da]

I wonder if they wrote the whole episode as a documentary and then found out what the voiceover would cost and how labour intensive the editing would be, and then thought, “eh, seven minutes, tops”. Leading off with Lance talking about the inherent tension of vigilantes serving a city in turmoil had a ton of impact - there was so much potential to explore when Oliver revealed himself. And to end with there being no tension because vigilantes are now cops and all is forgiven in a city that didn’t want vigilantes .... meh. I get the team had to be brought together and given free reign, but there was nothing exceptional about this episode. If you told me it was episode 149, I’d believe you. Ever since the end of the prison plot line it has felt like this season is bidding its time, holding its better cards for the end run. This milestone episode was no different. 

That said, there were some shinier spots - I thought they did a good job with William. The kid has been through a lot the last few seasons, and I could see the boarding school issue crystallizing all those feelings and hurt. The cameos were fantastic. The interactions with the camera crew were solid - I loved Diggle’s eye roll when Curtis was talking. I’m reserving judgement on Diggle until next week when the crew is cleaning up the lair - oops, I mean precinct - as there would presumably be a chat between Felicity and Diggle to further reestablish him.

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

And people really wont give a fuck If she was Black Siren child. Would be a waste. Cause shes reportedly a central new role. People would care if shes Olicity Baby. But I do get what u are saying. The writers torture Oliver and Felicity,  give NTA(Espically Dinah)Siren and Diaz more screen time than OTA. I just dont get why this is the only show I watch that actively doubles down on the Unpopular characters and sidelines popular characters! Rene Dinah and Curtis are NOT why this show has lasted this long.

Siren hardly gets more screentime then OTA.

[JamieLynn832002]

54 minutes ago, Chaser said:

This expanded TA is a lie. They haven’t redeemed themselves from S6. They didn’t have Oliver’s back, they weren’t there for his family. Who am I supposed to be cheering on cause right now I’m all for Future Felicity to burn it to the ground.

Right?! It's not even that I don't believe Future Felicity wanted to blow up SC anymore (I still don't believe it but...) it's that I don't care if she did. SC is a shithole full of jackasses who rewarded every sacrifice she and her family made by turning on them and making themselves the victims while congratulating themselves for having each other's backs, why shouldn't she want to destroy it? When you're trying to save your city and the only person besides your spouse consistently in your corner is a mass-murdering psycho who tried to kill you repeatedly, your city sucks.  But for some reason, the show seems convinced if they just keep telling us that NTA rocks and is super loyal, we'll believe it rather than the more than a year's worth of petulant jackassery.

Edited February 5, 2019 by JamieLynn832002

[apinknightmare]

Just now, Primal Slayer said:

Siren hardly gets more screentime then OTA.

Considering there hasn't been any OTA this season - at all - they're not wrong.

[jay741982]

4 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Siren hardly gets more screentime then OTA.

Yes true that. It's why I put NTA at the top with my complaint about OTA not getting the screen time. And like @apinknightmare said OTA hasn't got any screentime lol

Edited February 5, 2019 by jay741982

[JamieLynn832002]

OTA got the scene where Dig disappeared completely/stood around awkwardly while Olicity reunited post-prison, surely that's enough screentime in 12 episodes for the team the show was built on, right? 

[catrox14]

Okay. Who on the show is in love with Juliana Harkovy or does she know where the bodies are located?

[Writing Wrongs]

I bet Team Arrow didn't miss having to stand around and wait for Curtis to braid his Mr. Terrific hair every time someone said "Suit up."

[apinknightmare]

16 minutes ago, JamieLynn832002 said:

OTA got the scene where Dig disappeared completely/stood around awkwardly while Olicity reunited post-prison, surely that's enough screentime in 12 episodes for the team the show was built on, right? 

Even then all three of them weren't on screen together - they had to use CGI to make that happen, LOL. 

[Soulfire]

Like some regulars in tonight's episode, I'm showing up and doing my duty but nothing more --

 

 

Will add some GIFs from the scenes with William and Felicity later. 

 

Bonus parallel: 

[popgoesculture]

I will say that it was good to have Glen Winter as the director. He handled the documentary style stuff really well (even the shakiest bits were easy to see... looking at you and your terrible directing, Bamford.).  Otherwise, I agree with a lot of the criticism -- too much on Dinah and Wild Dog, and not enough Thea and Roy. The whole police angle is ridiculous and boring to watch. 

Also it was comical that in an episode debating about whether or not vigilantes were useful, it ended that the villain was just a fan of... vigilantes. So what am I supposed to take away from that other than that vigilantes cause problems and they're the only ones who can fix it? (And if it was just a matter of shooting an electrocution arrow, WHY NOT DO THAT SO MUCH SOONER? and how did the guy afford this crazy wayne enterprises suit? or how did he even steal it?)

I hate everything they're doing with Felicity, and also that was some crazy terrible parenting in tonight's ep -- Oliver especially. Maybe be worried about your kid once in a while and don't dump it all on your wife? And also maybe Felicity shouldn't be glib with the kid she sent away and then refused to let come back home? (Or the show should at least tell us that they've talked with William more than once, and that he and Oliver made up after the whole prison debacle...)

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Okay. Who on the show is in love with Juliana Harkovy or does she know where the bodies are located?

She’s the daughter of a WB exec, isn’t she? 

[apinknightmare]

11 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

She’s the daughter of a WB exec, isn’t she? 

He was an executive twenty years ago. He doesn't seem to be anymore. 

I think the most likely reason for her overwhelming presence is that she's cheap, she's willing to work a lot, and despite people complaining about her being around all the time, there's no evidence that it's hurting the ratings even a little bit. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by apinknightmare

[Mellowyellow]

Why has SA now got one expression like KC? In his case it's looking like he wants to die. 

Goodness even the acting has regressed.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Mellowyellow

[Drososma]

The episode was really not that good although I thing it's the restart of team arrow and nothing knew there are to many characters in the show right now and most of them doesn't really have to be there because the real stars of the show don't get enough time .....plus I think diggle and Oliver will have a conflict about Ricardo Diaz..closing I think the flashbacks were a lot  better than the flashforwards are they should have worked more in them 

[SmallScreenDiva]

46 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

despite people complaining about her being around all the time, there's no evidence that it's hurting the ratings even a little bit. 

Yeah, I think this is the main factor. With KC, they saw the numbers drop fast and Oliver and Laurel (or KC and SA) together was actively turning people off. If the meter is not ticking negatively for JH and her scenes with SA, they are gonna keep going with that. Especially if they wanna give the female lead more time off than money.

[Velocity23]

Or maybe had an agenda against Emily. When its that many times its not a coincidence anymore. And we have JH in the meantime who calls him a feminist and buys him birthday gifts and goes to dinner with him

[way2interested]

2 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Why has SA now got one expression like KC? In his case it's looking like he wants to die. 

Goodness even the acting has regressed.

C'mon now

[Mellowyellow]

13 minutes ago, way2interested said:

C'mon now

He has!!!! I've always been a big fan of his Oliver but he's treading on KC one face territory these past weeks. 

I wrote it off before but I'm seeing a pattern now!

[JamieLynn832002]

Rewatching, I'm confused, are Rory and Helena dead? And if they are, why didn't anybody seem to care? The situation with Helena was complicated but Rory was their friend (well, Felicity, Oliver, Curtis and Rene's anyway.) Shouldn't his apparent murder bother them? Less important but still bugging me, why has Felicity's stupid pearl-studded sweater survived for at least 3 years but Oliver's entire wardrobe has apparently been replaced with that of a middle-aged professor?

5 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I've always been a big fan of his Oliver but he's treading on KC one face territory these past weeks. 

I think he's still mostly fine with Felicity/people Oliver should actually care about and honestly, if I was stuck with Dinah that often, that would be my expression too.

[way2interested]

6 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

He has!!!! I've always been a big fan of his Oliver but he's treading on KC one face territory these past weeks. 

I wrote it off before but I'm seeing a pattern now!

He literally has more than one face in gifs in the above post? And those are just 2 random scenes, not counting him with Diggle, him putting on his mayor persona debating the actual mayor while wearing the GA outfit, etc.

[Mellowyellow]

1 minute ago, way2interested said:

He literally has more than one face in gifs in the above post? And those are just 2 random scenes, not counting him with Diggle, him putting on his mayor persona debating the actual mayor while wearing the GA outfit, etc.

I'm seeing the same "I'm bored I kinda want to die and not be here" expression even when he's mustering a smile or trying to act. Not that different to KC trying to pull different faces but looking like she's sneering.

Yes technically it's not one face but it's swimming in the JH, KC end of the acting pool.

Not expecting anyone to agree. That's my take on it after watching last week and this week. He's kinda sullen or bored looking. 

[thuganomics85]

I thought the episode started out pretty strong and, while a bit fan service, seeing all the past characters was great (Quentin!  Thea!  Barry being Barry!  Sara pretending like she enjoys being here and isn't just thinking about how she can't wait to go back to her vastly superior show!  And, holy crap, it's Sin and Rory/Ragman!), but it regressed pretty quickly.  The documentary stuff never really got on a solid footing (seriously, Kelsey Grammer was used so little, that I wonder if there were originally more lines, but he got bored and left the booth), and it basically became more about the Noobs again.  Again, maybe it's just my paranoid mind seeing things, but I really have a bad feeling the show is preparing for them to step in if Stephen Amell and maybe Emily Bett Rickards and David Ramsey want out soon rather than later.

At this point, I'm starting to think Diggle has split personalities.  Because the one here really seemed to sincerely believe that he had Oliver's (and Felicity's) back, and was basically acting close to original Diggle again.  Even though we've never, ever seen a glimpse of that support this entire season.  

Oh, yay, Teen William is back!  Poor Felicity getting stuck with that subplot.  That kid is the worst.  And pairing him up with Zoe just makes it all the more obvious, since she outshines him without even trying.

I swear, there are time where I feel like Rene is getting close to creepily obsessed with Emiko.  If this plot ends with her going "Back up off me, man!" and shooting him in the kneecap, she'd automatically move up to my top three character list this season (granted, that's not that hard of an accomplishment.)

I agree with Curtis on one thing: he is no Cisco.

The flash-forward with Maya and Connor was at least kind of interesting.

Sigh... can't believe this was the 150th episode of the show.  What a waste.

[Mary0360]

So if I'm getting the gist, once again Marc shafts Felicity/Emily in terms of storylines in an episode he's written 🤔

 

I'm glad Beth wrote a love letter for the maybe 10 fans who like NTA. 

[Mellowyellow]

Haha I was wondering who the fans are. 

It's obvious the 100th was for comics but I'm wondering who they are aiming at here. This episode looks like a case of them featuring all the Noobs to continue the show without OTA.

Thing is I think OTA will continue with their perks and pay checks.

What would be interesting is if the core or one of the core left and they were left with Noobs and stragglers. I reckon based on the last few episodes the show would still continue and they'd get 0.4s and 0.3s since it's an ok Ikea drama (looking at it objectively) if you're not invested and raging about the old characters you loved. 

[way2interested]

6 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

It's obvious the 100th was for comics but I'm wondering who they are aiming at here. This episode looks like a case of them featuring all the Noobs to continue the show without OTA.

They were aiming at getting the whole team back together (which is why they had Diggle and Curtis comment about using their old suits at the same time they had Felicity comment about being Overreach) and on the same page and bringing Oliver and Diggle back together. Basically it was trying to completely refute the premise of 6b and bring everyone back together after 7a.

[Mary0360]

14 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Haha I was wondering who the fans are. 

I was probably being generous saying 10 fans.

[Mellowyellow]

31 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

I was probably being generous saying 10 fans.

I've been trying to look at this objectively after the initial rage of watching a 150th Ep WITHOUT an Olicity scene and I've come to the conclusion that the show is fine for anyone who doesn't care about OTA. A few explosions, decent looking people walking around. Acting is on par with anything else CW has to offer. Maybe Curtis is not that annoying if you're watching for BOOMs and not really paying attention to Curtis.

Haha I feel like I'm in a 10 step program to either make peace with this or quit! 

[Mellowyellow]

6 hours ago, jay741982 said:

And people really wont give a fuck If she was Black Siren child. Would be a waste. Cause shes reportedly a central new role. People would care if shes Olicity Baby. But I do get what u are saying. The writers torture Oliver and Felicity,  give NTA(Espically Dinah)Siren and Diaz more screen time than OTA. I just dont get why this is the only show I watch that actively doubles down on the Unpopular characters and sidelines popular characters! Rene Dinah and Curtis are NOT why this show has lasted this long.

The hallmark of this show is it's randomness! I think she has equal chances of being anyone's child as much as Olicity's. Think of ALL the random plots that went nowhere in this show's history or blatantly ridiculous storylines (Michael Emerson and his MY SON plot).

If she is an Olicity baby they've done their best to sh@t and stomp on the Olicity baby plot as well before giving it to us since she acts like she's been living with stray cats all her life (talking about the character, not dig at KM's acting which is CW fine imo).

[jay741982]

23 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

The hallmark of this show is it's randomness! I think she has equal chances of being anyone's child as much as Olicity's. Think of ALL the random plots that went nowhere in this show's history or blatantly ridiculous storylines (Michael Emerson and his MY SON plot).

If she is an Olicity baby they've done their best to sh@t and stomp on the Olicity baby plot as well before giving it to us since she acts like she's been living with stray cats all her life (talking about the character, not dig at KM's acting which is CW fine imo).

Like I've been saying the writers LOVE making Oliver and Felicity miserable  while the rest especially NTA's lifes are fine while they act like Victims still. Wont be surprised if they reveal Oliver and Felicity didnt get much time to enjoy their Baby before she was taken from them or hell maybe theirs the possibility it's a Slade/Kane situation 

[cambridgeguy]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

Oh, yay, Teen William is back!  Poor Felicity getting stuck with that subplot.  That kid is the worst.  And pairing him up with Zoe just makes it all the more obvious, since she outshines him without even trying.

It might not be a great subplot but Oliver really needs to deal with William.  William is supposed to be back for a pretty brief period, but instead of spending time with the son he hasn't seen for months he's starring in his own documentary.  William's break schedule really shouldn't be a surprise, so why wouldn't Oliver schedule the filming at another time?  I can see a teenager being pissed off, especially since they never gave a concrete reason for why he had to stay at school for the holidays.  Say, doesn't he have maternal grandparents?  What happened to them?

[way2interested]

57 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

The hallmark of this show is it's randomness! I think she has equal chances of being anyone's child as much as Olicity's. Think of ALL the random plots that went nowhere in this show's history or blatantly ridiculous storylines (Michael Emerson and his MY SON plot).

To be fair, in the narrative currently going on, it would be random for her to be their kid, and since Mia in the comics trains with Connor Hawke (not a coincidence that they were together in the episode, I would guess) and then basically gets adopted by Oliver, I'd either guess they go with that or go it Arrow-style and cut out extra details to heighten the drama. Either way, she ends up their kid, albeit maybe adopted.

[Mellowyellow]

7 minutes ago, way2interested said:

To be fair, in the narrative currently going on, it would be random for her to be their kid, and since Mia in the comics trains with Connor Hawke (not a coincidence that they were together in the episode, I would guess) and then basically gets adopted by Oliver, I'd either guess they go with that or go it Arrow-style and cut out extra details to heighten the drama. Either way, she ends up their kid, albeit maybe adopted.

You reckon adopted out or old Olicity decide to randomly adopt a kid in the future?

She doesn't seem like she needs to be adopted or would want to be but anything can happen on this show I guess.

[way2interested]

46 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

You reckon adopted out or old Olicity decide to randomly adopt a kid in the future?

Idk, I don't know what happened. It could explain why she refers to Olicity by their names, but on the other hand I would think that Arrow would cut out extra details.

47 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

She doesn't seem like she needs to be adopted

Lol one of the reasons people don't think she could be their kid is because she looks like she grew up on the streets XD. That says need to me.

[ladylaw99]

So that happened....

Like others it started off promising but once again failed. 

So this was another love letter well, they can keep it.  I felt absolutely nothing at the end of the episode, actually scratch that, I felt annoyed because where was my Felicity?  The heart of the show was missing.  Diggle, I can see that they are trying to turn that around but it might go a long way if we actually see him own up to his mistakes and apologize to Oliver and Felicity.  Maybe that will happen next week but I won't hold my breath.

Rory, Thea and Quentin, the good old days. Where was Roy?  There should have been more of him.

Why was there so much focus on NTA.  All this did was remind me how much I can't stand any of them.  

William, I'm not sure what to think about where they are going with this.  All I know is that Oliver should have been there dealing with this situation with Felicity.  This is not a "I skip class" situation.  He got expelled!  Oliver needs to step it up in the parent role, I know they will dip into it next week but they should have shown a little this week.  The kid just got back and you were MIA.  Sorry but I would have taken a scene like that over all the unnecessary NTA crap.

This felt rushed to me.  They never let the characters breathe in a episode.  

They have 23 episodes, surely they can let the episode breathe a little.

[Mellowyellow]

52 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Idk, I don't know what happened. It could explain why she refers to Olicity by their names, but on the other hand I would think that Arrow would cut out extra details.

Lol one of the reasons people don't think she could be their kid is because she looks like she grew up on the streets XD. That says need to me.

So you mean she's adopted already?

I thought you meant there will be an adoption plot going forward!

Still even if they are her adoptive parents she's still living like a street rat which makes them terrible adoptive parents! 

[KillahBee007]

I watched this last night and what a complete waste of time. I haven’t really actively watched this show since the prison SL which I enjoyed and gave FS her shine. I even enjoyed some episodes outside of that because again it allowed FS her shine and Oliver has been okay. 

That said, I shouldn’t be surprised at how bad this was. The first part where it was a documentary was actually fun but after that  it went completely downhill. 

I don’t care any part of the kid and his shit. Throwing his tablet at FS? Really? Learn some damn respect. However, I agree with the general sentiment, Oliver also should’ve been there to deal with him. 

The SCPD storyline is ridiculous. They’re cops now? Really? This show is a shell of what it was. I’m disappointed but not surprised.  They really need to tell MG to stop writing for this show because his thing against FS/EBR is showing.