S06.E17: Reunion

[scrb]

Shingles and genital herpes are not the same thing?

Seemed like Kate and Josiah were insinuating that Caroline had a breakout of the latter?

[DebbieM4]

22 hours ago, Teri313 said:

And don't forget, hooking up with Hannah. He seems a little out of control.

Yes.  I didn't like hearing about any of it, but the thought of him hooking up with Hannah made me feel a little sick.   And very disappointed in him.  She just seems icky, super-low to me.

[HunterHunted]

On 2/10/2019 at 10:22 PM, Teri313 said:

I suspect they didn't air it initially to protect Caroline's privacy, and perhaps avoid a lawsuit. And then when Caroline saw how they edited it (remember, she tweeted ahead of that episode airing that we will be shocked at what happened), and she spoke with Andy, she probably said, AIR IT for the reunion. 

Caroline cannot sue anyone. Their contracts prevent them from suing each other, the production company, and Comcast/NBCUniversal. Furthermore, the contracts explicitly state that they can make up any story that they choose, meaning production can manipulatively edit and franken-quote the contestants to their hearts desire. And we've seen instances where people have tried to take on Bravo/NBCUniversal.

One of Luann's friends got caught on a housewife's microphone gossiping that Luann's impending nuptials are a disaster waiting to happen and Luann was only getting married because she didn't want to admit she was wrong. This woman is a multimillionaire who got laughed out of court. Thomas Ravenel formerly of Southern Charm pulling similar shit about preventing them from using his previous footage to craft future narratives about him even though he's off the show. He is also a multimillionaire. He's probably going to lose. The Maloof threw her weight around to prevent Bravo from showing  a discussion about her kids being born via surrogate. I suspect Bravo only complied because it didn't really enhance the storyline of that season and the Malooves are billionaires.  Caroline doesn't have the money to take these corporations on.

The herpes footage was probably withheld possibly to protect Caroline's privacy, but almost certainly to prevent Kate's shitty behavior from tarnishing the show. She and Lee are the mainstays in the cast. She's regarded as good at her job, witty, and funny, but bitchy. Lee is thought of as good at his job, no nonsense, and tough, but fair. A viewer needs to marginally like the cast in order to tune in year after year especially when most of the cast and guests are new every single year. Who wants to watch a show where the only constants are the abusive asshole and the boss who defends every awful thing the asshole does? Ahem...Joao and Sandy.

It's likely because of Caroline's unceasing behavior on social media that the show just bit the bullet and aired the footage because the bad fan reaction was already happening and the viewers were getting very polarized.

Edited February 18, 2019 by HunterHunted

[Kareem]

Great info, insight and theory, HunterHunted.  Love the plural of Maloof, too...  

[langford peel]

They didn’t use the footage because it mak s Kate look really bad. This was damage control. 

If they didn’t show it people like me who don’t like Kate will think it was even worse. As it is it is bad enough.

They can establish continuity with other people than Kate. How about Amy as chief stew? Bring back some faves on the deck crew. Maybe even have a woman bosun? Shake it up like Captain Crunch trying to dock the boat!  

Edited February 15, 2019 by langford peel

[MajorNelson]

I think they didn't show it because like others said, there was a great lack of context.  Maybe they have to show background discussion or TH about shingles, medical conditions etc, and that's a bit heavy for light entertainment.  Plus Caroline is no doubt kookoo and HAD LEFT the show (when the editing was done), possibly in violation of her contract in several ways, so why throw her any bones during that episode?

Edited February 18, 2019 by MajorNelson
typo

[HunterHunted]

On 2/16/2019 at 11:51 PM, MajorNelson said:

I think they didn't show it because like others said, there was a great lack of context.  Maybe they have to show background discussion or TH about shingles, medical conditions etc, and that's a bit heavy for light entertainment. Plus Caroline is no doubt kookoo and HAD LEFT the show (when the editing was done), possibly in violation of her contract in several ways, so why throw her any bones during that episode?

However, the show had already aired Kate's shingles insult in the show. I don't know that the audience needed much more context than that, in part, because that's exactly what we got. We only needed background about Caroline's medical condition if the show's intent was to try to exonerate Kate and Josiah. Had we been shown Caroline's scenes with explaining her medical issues, Kate and Josiah might have been found even nastier. However had Caroline belabored the point with circuitous explanations, some might likely think that Kate and Josiah were justified. I don't think that the footage wasn't shown because it was too complex. I don't even understand this criticism because it rarely occurs in reality TV. When have we ever been presented with a situation too complex to explain to viewers? The footage, if it exists, has a 50/50 chance of making Kate and Josiah look so much worse. And I think we didn't see it because it did make them look worse. 

If Caroline had violated her contract, we would have heard about it because she cannot stop talking.

[langford peel]

It was absolutely not shown because it made Kate and Josiah look like the mean girls that they really are in real life.

They had to show something because otherwise many of us would think it was even worse.

This was damage control.

[MajorNelson]

On 2/18/2019 at 7:40 PM, HunterHunted said:

 I don't think that the footage wasn't shown because it was too complex. I don't even understand this criticism because it rarely occurs in reality TV. When have we ever been presented with a situation too complex to explain to viewers? The footage, if it exists, has a 50/50 chance of making Kate and Josiah look so much worse. And I think we didn't see it because it did make them look worse. 

Too complex, meaning they would have to burn up several minutes of airtime, either by having done more exposure in prior episodes, or more flashbacks in the "quitting" episode, time that could they spend on something else.

Here's what they could have done to be complete (but they didn't) using material we mostly know about.

1. Caroline quits, then hangs out in her bunk room

2. Music is set up outside

3. Ross comes by and ends the music, and then exits the scene in seeming disregard of Caroline's position.

4. Kate and Josiah make comments about herpes outside her door.

5. Flashback to Kate making comment about excuses not to work (earlier) "What's next, Shingles?"

6. Flashback presumption to Caroline confused about herpes

7. Cut to 5 second shot of dictionary or Google image of definition of source of Shingle and differences from std's.

8. Final cutting remark from Kate, to "work or get off the boat Now!"

9. Caroline being dragged out by producers, and not cooperating in her exit.

A few speculative points, but if the guilty party (Caroline) has already been shown to be irresponsible, why bother with additional details?  

As to her exit, I think they showed her walking away from the yacht for her final exit, but I don't think they showed what pried her loose from her bunk room.  Was it interesting?  Perhaps yes, but perhaps too much breaking of 4th wall, and...it's on the cutting room floor.

[heatherchandler]

On 2/9/2019 at 7:42 AM, jmcd44 said:

Ive seen that as a joke few places-so I assume it’s not true. I don’t think Kim can afford him & the slots. I hope for Ashton’s sake. He’s too sweet for her. 

In what capacity is he working for her?  She has a boat?

13 minutes ago, MajorNelson said:

9. Caroline being dragged out by producers, and not cooperating in her exit.

Caroline said on the Heather McDonald podcast that the producers TOLD her to stay in her room, and not leave yet, as the Captain wasn't back on the boat and they were not sure if they wanted a scene with both of them in it (or something like that).  She was directed to stay and they didn't show that.  No one needed to be dragged off the boat, she wanted to leave.

Edited February 22, 2019 by heatherchandler

[jmcd44]

1 hour ago, heatherchandler said:

On 2/9/2019 at 8:42 AM, jmcd44 said:

Ive seen that as a joke few places-so I assume it’s not true. I don’t think Kim can afford him & the slots. I hope for Ashton’s sake. He’s too sweet for her. 

In what capacity is he working for her?  She has a boat?

He is doing personal training and private security for a wealthy family in Atlanta.  He didn't mention driving anyone holding red solo cups to casinos so I assume it is not Kim.

[SuprSuprElevated]

Okay, I'm out of the loop.  Are we saying that Kim Z is a casino addict?

[HunterHunted]

39 minutes ago, MajorNelson said:

Too complex, meaning they would have to burn up several minutes of airtime, either by having done more exposure in prior episodes, or more flashbacks in the "quitting" episode, time that could they spend on something else.

Here's what they could have done to be complete (but they didn't) using material we mostly know about.

1. Caroline quits, then hangs out in her bunk room

2. Music is set up outside

3. Ross comes by and ends the music, and then exits the scene in seeming disregard of Caroline's position.

4. Kate and Josiah make comments about herpes outside her door.

5. Flashback to Kate making comment about excuses not to work (earlier) "What's next, Shingles?"

6. Flashback presumption to Caroline confused about herpes

7. Cut to 5 second shot of dictionary or Google image of definition of source of Shingle and differences from std's.

8. Final cutting remark from Kate, to "work or get off the boat Now!"

9. Caroline being dragged out by producers, and not cooperating in her exit.

A few speculative points, but if the guilty party (Caroline) has already been shown to be irresponsible, why bother with additional details?  

As to her exit, I think they showed her walking away from the yacht for her final exit, but I don't think they showed what pried her loose from her bunk room.  Was it interesting?  Perhaps yes, but perhaps too much breaking of 4th wall, and...it's on the cutting room floor.

Audiences have seen Bravo readjust midseason and add more episodes to a season or give a show a bunch of extended episodes in order to capture all of the drama. The former is usually, but not always, found in the Housewives shows. The latter has been used a number of times by Top Chef AND Below Deck. Considering how Below Deck and BD: Med have grown and remained steady in the ratings while routinely trouncing some Real Housewives franchises suggests that if Below Deck asked for longer episodes to cover the Caroline situation, they likely would have gotten those run time expansions. I truly believe that the show cut the herpes scenes to avoid damaging the show. It could have been to avoid 4th wall breaking or making Kate and Lee look worse. I think they only aired the footage because of how substantially the speculation had eroded the audience. I think we're solidly in cya territory.

[lcarolynl]

10 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

Caroline said on the Heather McDonald podcast that the producers TOLD her to stay in her room, and not leave yet, as the Captain wasn't back on the boat and they were not sure if they wanted a scene with both of them in it (or something like that).  She was directed to stay and they didn't show that.  No one needed to be dragged off the boat, she wanted to leave.

Okay maybe that happened or maybe we all remember how Caroline remembers things, which is not accurately.

i don’t mean to be a big Kate/Josiah apologist but at this point in the season K and J (and the rest of the crew) were getting exhausted from the work. K and J were doing all their own work plus Caroline’s and watched take her tip share, charter after charter. Plus the evening before she embarrassed them in front of the rest of the crew so ... there goes any goodwill.

I do not condone their words but at the same time it’s hard to maintain your equanimity and composure when your tired as f**k, resentful, and maybe a little hungover.

Honestly, I probably would have behaved worse than K and J.

[heatherchandler]

1 hour ago, lcarolynl said:

Okay maybe that happened or maybe we all remember how Caroline remembers things, which is not accurately.

i don’t mean to be a big Kate/Josiah apologist but at this point in the season K and J (and the rest of the crew) were getting exhausted from the work. K and J were doing all their own work plus Caroline’s and watched take her tip share, charter after charter. Plus the evening before she embarrassed them in front of the rest of the crew so ... there goes any goodwill.

I do not condone their words but at the same time it’s hard to maintain your equanimity and composure when your tired as f**k, resentful, and maybe a little hungover.

Honestly, I probably would have behaved worse than K and J.

I have been annoyed with a co-worker who wasn't pulling their weight.  It sucks.  It's infuriating.  That being said - what Kate and Josiah did went so far and above and beyond normal behavior, I can't even wrap my head around it.  That was so crazy and awful, so cruel and mean.  Caroline was already on edge, everyone could see it.  Who would push and poke a person like that?  What kind of monster would see weakness and sadness and not feel any compassion?  Who kicks people when they are down?  Sad, sick people.

[Reality police]

10 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Okay, I'm out of the loop.  Are we saying that Kim Z is a casino addict?

Hell Yes!🎲🎰🎲🎰

[Chalby]

On 2/11/2019 at 5:55 PM, Jextella said:

As cuckoo as Caroline is, Kate needed to be called out.  This was the time.  

Kate and Josiah definitely acted like mean girls and were totally in the wrong. HOWEVER, I was becoming so irate with Caroline's health and behaviour nonsense, and the timing of her flare ups seemed to coincide with the boat needing to be turned over, or clients requiring extra care. Just her limping, wheezing, sniffling, and general victim stance, made those around her (and me as a viewer) very uncomfortable. And these were the times when she was 'well'. Her decision to stand up to Kate and share the shit sandwich analogy, while giving all two days notice, got everyone's attention. BUT... to then announce to Josiah that she decided she just didn't want to work would have tipped me over the edge. These two had been carrying her portion of the work load almost the entire season, and NOW she decided she was a charter guest? Not going to happen. I would have turned into a mean girl as well, I just would have done it in a less detectable way.

[Chalby]

On 2/22/2019 at 7:08 PM, heatherchandler said:

 Who kicks people when they are down?  Sad, sick people.

There was no other time to 'kick' because Caroline was ALWAYS down. She perseverated on any negative interaction and loved to relive it over and over (Anyone remember her response to being 'sshhhed?) She would not see the positive in any situation and argued against moving beyond an encounter. Adrian, Mr Calm and Collected, couldn't deal with her negativity and made a point of letting her know this. I don't see her as being 'kicked when she was down'. I see her as someone who can only function if she has a crisis to deal with. She thrives on being a victim because otherwise, she just exists.

[Diane Mars]

2 hours ago, Chalby said:

There was no other time to 'kick' because Caroline was ALWAYS down. She perseverated on any negative interaction and loved to relive it over and over (Anyone remember her response to being 'sshhhed?) She would not see the positive in any situation and argued against moving beyond an encounter. Adrian, Mr Calm and Collected, couldn't deal with her negativity and made a point of letting her know this. I don't see her as being 'kicked when she was down'. I see her as someone who can only function if she has a crisis to deal with. She thrives on being a victim because otherwise, she just exists.

And I will add to that that she was never shy to take her part of the tips, never suggested to share.... and remebering that Ashton, who could have died, told the crew that he DIDN'T wanted his share, because he wasn't able to work 100% summarizes all what I have to know about Caroline's integrity and values...

[MaxAccess]

Can someone post a recap of the herpes clip? I didn't see the reunion, and for some reason it isn't on Sling OnDemand. Thank you! 

Edited February 26, 2019 by MaxAccess

[Lemur]

Guys ... guys ... guys!

We don't have to pick sides!  They can *ALL* be horrible people we wouldn't want to work with!

[MajorNelson]

@MaxAccess The scene they showed was introduced by Andy saying there was a specific scene Caroline had been tweeting about it, that we  have....

Kate and Josiah are on the floor outside Caroline's door (annoying music is off)

Conversation is fast paced, with overlap and some finishing the others' sentence or thought...

Kate: You're leaving because your herpes are flaring up?  I don't blame you.  Uggggh.

Josiah: Oh that's not good.

Kate: That's so gross. 

Josiah: Oh my God. I'd hate for my herpes to be flaring up.

Kate:  I don't have herpes, but you do.  <-----2nd part very hard to hear, this is what captions say

Josiah: Yeah, well if I did...

Kate: I'm glad you're leaving.

(mixed minor bantering)

Josiah: Don't want to spread that sh_t.

Kate: na huh.

[mcjen]

On 2/22/2019 at 9:08 PM, heatherchandler said:

I have been annoyed with a co-worker who wasn't pulling their weight.  It sucks.  It's infuriating.  That being said - what Kate and Josiah did went so far and above and beyond normal behavior, I can't even wrap my head around it.  That was so crazy and awful, so cruel and mean.  Caroline was already on edge, everyone could see it.  Who would push and poke a person like that?  What kind of monster would see weakness and sadness and not feel any compassion?  Who kicks people when they are down?  Sad, sick people.

Like others, I don't mean to suggest that Kate and Josiah's behavior was okay.  But neither do I feel it's fair to say everyone could see Caroline was on edge.  When she gave her two days' notice the evening before, Caroline seemed pretty calm and collected.  Then she slept in the next morning, and, when Josiah stopped by her room to let her know they were working, she brushed him off, sleepily and rudely, and declared she had no intention of working.  My recollection is that they never laid eyes on her again because she locked the door to her room.  Only Ross was shown turning off the music and entering Caroline's room, and so certainly he was able to see how worked up she was.  Exactly when in the timeline of events K & J sat outside her room and indulged in their herpes dialogue is unclear to me. 

While I won't pretend it completely absolves them, I am inclined to see Kate and Josiah as exhausted and aggravated by covering Caroline's work load for weeks, only to have her give her notice in the most blatantly f*** you manner she could orchestrate before the entire crew.  Then she threw down another gauntlet the next morning by refusing to even put in the two days' work she had willingly obligated herself to only the night before.  Despite seeing all her bat-shit crazy behavior in the prior weeks, I'm not sure I don't blame K & J for possibly concluding at that point that Caroline was less a victim of illness (physical, mental or both) and more of a manipulative, malingering bitch.  Just my take.

[heatherchandler]

On 2/27/2019 at 2:18 AM, MajorNelson said:

@MaxAccess The scene they showed was introduced by Andy saying there was a specific scene Caroline had been tweeting about it, that we  have....

Kate and Josiah are on the floor outside Caroline's door (annoying music is off)

Conversation is fast paced, with overlap and some finishing the others' sentence or thought...

Kate: You're leaving because your herpes are flaring up?  I don't blame you.  Uggggh.

Josiah: Oh that's not good.

Kate: That's so gross. 

Josiah: Oh my God. I'd hate for my herpes to be flaring up.

Kate:  I don't have herpes, but you do.  <-----2nd part very hard to hear, this is what captions say

Josiah: Yeah, well if I did...

Kate: I'm glad you're leaving.

(mixed minor bantering)

Josiah: Don't want to spread that sh_t.

Kate: na huh.

Seriously FUCK THEM.  Cannot wrap my head around this ever being ok.

[MaxAccess]

@MajorNelson Thank you so much for typing that all out! 

[Cherry Cola]

I'm working my way through all the seasons. The reunion was totally dull.  Andy says um way to much to be a host of a show. That is a total pet peeve! 

Rylee angry face is so scary.