S04.E13: Man of Worth

[Athena]

Quote

Jamie, Claire and Young Ian's attempt to rescue Roger from his Mohawk captors goes awry when a ghost from Claire's past lays waste to their plan. Meanwhile, Brianna worries Claire, Jamie and Roger might not return.

Reminder: This is the No Book Talk topic. No discussion of the books is allowed including saying "in the books..." Posts may be removed without warning.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Oh, Ian. I'd rather have you stay with Claire and Jamie a million times over than stupid Roger.

I had to laugh at Murtaugh and Jocasta complaining about how terrible rum is.

After the Jamie/Roger fight, I was waiting for Claire to say, "Are you idiots done fucking around so we can get back home?"

[Ziggy]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

After the Jamie/Roger fight, I was waiting for Claire to say, "Are you idiots done fucking around so we can get back home?"

She should have :-)  Her face certainly said it!

[nara]

WTF? No more Ian? Good thing Jenny is safely in Scotland because she would beat the crap out of Jamie for getting her child into this situation. I did Iike the fact that Ian took responsibility for his role in what happened to Roger. Also, it was nice to see him ace the gauntlet. He finally looked like a confident adult when he completed it. He has always been into Native American culture so he will fit in. 

I thought they should have offered to take the exiled woman back to Fraser’s Ridge and give her a home there.  Right now, she’s more collateral damage. I hope no one has squatted on their land while they’ve been gone for 8 months...

Good for Claire for insisting that Roger be allowed to take his time to decide. Jamie’s behavior on that point was annoying.

I was hoping a Jocasta Murtagh romance (Jotagh? Murcasta?) would happen and they delivered, but I think a little more bodice ripping would have been good.  But wasn’t Murtagh crushing on her sister, Jamie’s mother, at some point? If so, that should have been part of the conversation, but I could be making that up.

The run across the lawn was cliche, but okay IMO.

1776 is creeping closer!

[Cdh20]

3 hours ago, nara said:

WTF? No more Ian? Good thing Jenny is safely in Scotland because she would beat the crap out of Jamie for getting her child into this situation. I did Iike the fact that Ian took responsibility for his role in what happened to Roger. Also, it was nice to see him ace the gauntlet. He finally looked like a confident adult when he completed it. He has always been into Native American culture so he will fit in. 

I thought they should have offered to take the exiled woman back to Fraser’s Ridge and give her a home there.  Right now, she’s more collateral damage. I hope no one has squatted on their land while they’ve been gone for 8 months...

Good for Claire for insisting that Roger be allowed to take his time to decide. Jamie’s behavior on that point was annoying.

I was hoping a Jocasta Murtagh romance (Jotagh? Murcasta?) would happen and they delivered, but I think a little more bodice ripping would have been good.  But wasn’t Murtagh crushing on her sister, Jamie’s mother, at some point? If so, that should have been part of the conversation, but I could be making that up.

The run across the lawn was cliche, but okay IMO.

1776 is creeping closer!

I haven’t watched yet but in the episode where Murtagh delivered Bree to River Run Jocasta did mention Murtagh liking her older sister, Ellen. And Jamie said that Jocasta looked like / reminded him of  his mother in the episode where they arrived (402) so it makes sense that Murtagh might now like Jocasta?!

Edited January 27, 2019 by Cdh20

[Hook75]

So we lost Ian for Roger? WTF? How disappointed.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Hook75

[ElectricBoogaloo]

You’d think that the 2+ months that Roger spent making his way back from New York with Jamie and Claire would have been enough time to make up his mind about Brianna and the baby, but no, he needed an extra day or two just to make it all dramatic when he finally showed up. Yes, I’m still bitter that we lost Ian in exchange for Roger. At this point, I don’t think there’s anything he can do to make me like him or get over the shitty way he slut shamed Brianna. He can fuck right off into the stones and disappear forever as far as I’m concerned. 

Edited January 27, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[BitterApple]

All I have to say is if a man EVER had to "take a moment and think" on whether he could accept my daughter after she'd been raped, those would be the last words he spoke before I knocked his teeth out. Claire, Jamie, and Ian risked their lives for months to save him, Ian had to give up his family and Roger's all "um, uh, I don't know, give me a minute...". I can't believe Brianna took him back. I also can't believe we're losing the amazing Ian for this pansy loser.

Oh and Jenny won't be upset? Yeah, somehow I don't think so. 

Murtaugh and Jocasta were cute. I guess everyone needs love.

Edited January 27, 2019 by BitterApple

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

He can fuck right off into the stones and disappear forever as far as I’m concerned. 

 

That's pretty much my feeling as well. I understand hearing about what happened to Brianna was a lot to take in, but you're either in it for better or worse or you aren't. Brianna is technically his wife and there's a 50% chance the baby is his. There really shouldn't have been any hesitation on his part. I don't know if he traveled with Jamie and Claire back to the South or parted ways in New York only to follow shortly after, but either way he looks like a jerk. 

I also wanted to add the season ending cliffhanger was sort of "meh". We all knew Jamie's deal with the Devil would come back to bite him eventually, so it really wasn't a surprise. 

Also, did anyone else think Brianna looked a bit hesitant when Claire said they were taking her back to Frasier's Ridge? Methinks she's gotten used to the good life and doesn't want to go back to mucking around in the woods.

Edited January 28, 2019 by BitterApple

[ganesh]

Oh Claire, you can't go anywhere without getting into trouble. I actually felt a little bad this time because it wasn't really her fault. 

Hey, let's raid a native american village. That's a smart plan. Honesltly, at that point, I'd be like "You know, Lord John's good people - he'd make a good husband."

So is Otter Tooth guy who went through the stones? How did he have fillings in his teeth then?

I honestly don't hate watch, but I can't say the show has really grabbed me since S2. It's hot nothing to do with the actors or people involved with the show. They can only work with what the books give them. There doesn't seem too much of a narrative direction though. 

I don't necessarily have to like characters to like a show, and I don't really like Claire, but she's not boring. Roger is like what? The only interesting thing was last week when he told the priest to show up. I get that he's supposed to be "of his time" but there were better men then too. 

6 hours ago, Hook75 said:

So we lost Ian for Roger? WTF? How disappointed.

You'd think at this point the Mohawk would be glad to get rid of him. Sure, they should trade for him. "Hey, will take those kitchen items thanks. Bye Dogface."

Did Murtaugh call Jocasta "Jo" in the living room? Oh, I laughed so hard when she threw the drink at him and then cut to the bedroom. 

[Nidratime]

Quote

So is Otter Tooth guy who went through the stones? How did he have fillings in his teeth then?

Huh? He went through the stones. He was originally a man who lived in the 20th century. You get fillings in your teeth in the 20th century.

[ganesh]

Yes, that was what I was asking. 

Yeah, ok Roger, you're lucky Jamie suffers from Scottish guilt. He would have broken you in half in about 3 seconds. What a bag. 

13 hours ago, nara said:

Also, it was nice to see him ace the gauntlet.

I bet the Mohawk were like, "well, this turned out to be a good trade." 

I'm not sure it's Claire's place to spill about Bree's rape and whether it's his child or not. 

Watching Roger after the fight, it seems like this season basically is just people not communicating. It's not really drama. Bonnet wasn't even that good of a villain. 

They don't know whether the baby can go through stones or not. Both of them can travel. It would stand to reason the baby has the ability too. 

Edited January 28, 2019 by ganesh

[ganesh]

4 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Oh and Jenny won't be upset? Yeah, somehow I don't think so. 

Yeah that was a dumb thing to say. Though who is to know what's going to happen. The Mohawk accepted him. They might let him take a trip to see his mother. 

Somehow I'm not thinking Jo is going to leave cozy Riverrun to slog on over to Fraser's Ridge. 

Was that ending supposed to be a cliffhanger? 

Edited January 28, 2019 by ganesh

[WatchrTina]

43 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I'm not sure it's Claire's place to spill about Bree's rape and whether it's his child or not. 

In a prior episode Brianna specifically told Claire to tell Roger everything.

[ganesh]

Goes to show you how much my interest in the show has diminished. 

Did anyone tell Claire or Jamie about the fire? 

[Cdh20]

20 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Goes to show you how much my interest in the show has diminished. 

Did anyone tell Claire or Jamie about the fire? 

Bree told them when she first showed up, & Jamie & Claire had a conversation about it, where Claire said they should take a  vacation every January!

5 hours ago, BitterApple said:

 

Oh and Jenny won't be upset? Yeah, somehow I don't think so. 

 

My husband said that exact thing! LOL!

[Noneofyourbusiness]

14 hours ago, nara said:

I thought they should have offered to take the exiled woman back to Fraser’s Ridge and give her a home there.  Right now, she’s more collateral damage. I hope no one has squatted on their land while they’ve been gone for 8 months...

I was hoping a Jocasta Murtagh romance (Jotagh? Murcasta?) would happen and they delivered, but I think a little more bodice ripping would have been good.  But wasn’t Murtagh crushing on her sister, Jamie’s mother, at some point? If so, that should have been part of the conversation, but I could be making that up.

I thought the same thing. She was exiled because she was helping them as part of a bargain they made with her, so the decent thing to do would be to find her, give her the stone, and make sure she's alright and settled, if not at Fraser's Ridge then somewhere else.

When they left in "The Deep Heart's Core", Jamie said he would have Tom Burley (one of his tenants) look after the crops and the animals.

Yes, he was. It was mentioned in previous seasons, and Jocasta also talked earlier this season about how Murtagh had always been following Ellen around, helping her carry things, etc.. After she married his second cousin, Brian Fraser, he remained devoted to her, that's why he was godfather to Jamie and vowed to protect him always.

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

Hey, let's raid a native american village. That's a smart plan. Honesltly, at that point, I'd be like "You know, Lord John's good people - he'd make a good husband."

At the end when Roger returned, my Mom said "she should marry Lord John". And she likes Roger.

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

Did Murtaugh call Jocasta "Jo" in the living room?

Yes, he did.

1 hour ago, Nidratime said:

Huh? He went through the stones. He was originally a man who lived in the 20th century. You get fillings in your teeth in the 20th century.

And he was the man on the bench in the opening title who was upset seeing the children dressed as a "cowboy and Indian" for Halloween.

27 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Goes to show you how much my interest in the show has diminished. 

Did anyone tell Claire or Jamie about the fire? 

Yes, Bree did when she met up with them. Because of the printer's carelessness, they only know it happens the Sunday before January 21st within the next decade, and they know what cabin it happens in, so they're not that fussed about it.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Noneofyourbusiness

[Cdh20]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

I bet the Mohawk were like, "well, this turned out to be a good trade." 

I wondered why they didn't just give up Roger, he's been pretty much useless to them!

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

I bet the Mohawk were like, "well, this turned out to be a good trade."

 

Indeed. Not to mention they get a wolfdog in the bargain. When Rollo caught my attention in the goodbye scene, I half wondered if that had been the cincher when Ian was proposing it to them.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Noneofyourbusiness

[Cdh20]

14 hours ago, nara said:

WTF? No more Ian? Good thing Jenny is safely in Scotland because she would beat the crap out of Jamie for getting her child into this situation. I did Iike the fact that Ian took responsibility for his role in what happened to Roger. Also, it was nice to see him ace the gauntlet. He finally looked like a confident adult when he completed it. He has always been into Native American culture so he will fit in. 

I thought they should have offered to take the exiled woman back to Fraser’s Ridge and give her a home there.  Right now, she’s more collateral damage. I hope no one has squatted on their land while they’ve been gone for 8 months...

Good for Claire for insisting that Roger be allowed to take his time to decide. Jamie’s behavior on that point was annoying.

I was hoping a Jocasta Murtagh romance (Jotagh? Murcasta?) would happen and they delivered, but I think a little more bodice ripping would have been good.  But wasn’t Murtagh crushing on her sister, Jamie’s mother, at some point? If so, that should have been part of the conversation, but I could be making that up.

The run across the lawn was cliche, but okay IMO.

1776 is creeping closer!

I loved seeing Ian ace the gauntlet! I think we've known all along that he was fascinated with the Natives. I bet soon he has a wife & kiddos! I hope we get to see him next season, even though he won't be at the Ridge!

I understood Jamie's anger at Roger hesitating over the baby, because let's face it Jamie has been raising any kid he could just so he could be a "father". However I realized Roger's choice also involved staying in the 1700's, something he didn't count on at all! 

Did anyone see Claire take note of Jocasta telling Murtagh to hide at the end? Claire is onto them! I saw this romance coming when Murtagh first went to River Run.

I liked the ending with the setup of pitting Jamie against the Regulators-how will he get out of finding his Godfather & killing him?

Awkward moments: the lack of dialogue at River Run, like Jamie & Claire explaining everything to Bree? Did Jamie & Bree make up? Silence at the dinner table? I bet Lizzie is sad that Ian didn't return. Claire saying "Jocasta -do you want to hold the baby?" I screamed -give that baby to Grandda Jamie! I can't believe Jamie & Claire didn't make it back before he was born- I so much wanted Jamie to be there since he missed Faith & Bree ( & Germain) being born. I guess they figured we've seen Claire deliver Jenny's baby, Maggie, in season 1, so we didn 't need to see that again. And of course fathers/grandfathers wouldn't be present in that century during births, would they? 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

Heh heh. It just hit me. They lost Dogface and gained a dog.

[BitterApple]

I thought the most hilarious part of the night:

(Paraphrasing) Claire to Roger: "So you see, Brianna has to stay"

and Jamie quickly interjects:

"But he doesn't!!!." 

I love how protective dad Jamie thinks Roger is a complete tosser.

Edited January 28, 2019 by BitterApple

[cam3150]

Even as much as Roger has gotten on my nerves this season I was going to be soooo mad at him if he didn’t reunite with Brianna. I mean, he went through hell numerous times trying to get back to her and then he just leaves because the baby might not be his?  Cheesy as it was, I liked their “run through a meadow” reunion. I’m in the minority I guess because I like Roger overall. He’s got his issues for sure but I like him  

I liked this episode but I’ve liked this whole season more than it seems most have. I always love the time travel episodes and seeing how everyone reacts to the situations and people so this season delivered on that front in multiple ways. I did tire of the Roger/Mowhawk storyline but everything else went at warp speed. 

I hate to lose Young Ian (and the dog!) but I am so, so, so glad it wasn’t Jamie  who stayed behind. I would not have looked forward to another season of Jamie and Claire being apart. The show works better when they’re together as a team. 

Jamie is definitely aware of Jo & Murtagh. He was giving them the side eye when she was rushing him off to he slave quarters. 

I can give Roger a pass for needing a moment to think when he found out about Bree, etc. It was a lot and he wasn’t in the best place emotionally or physically already. Plus, he was expecting to go back home so choosing to stay meant giving up his 1970’s life....at least for the time being. He hasn’t had the best of luck in the 1700’s. Also it’s not a coincidence that they now have 3 gems. They’ll go back with the baby eventually. 

[BitterApple]

5 minutes ago, cam3150 said:

 They’ll go back with the baby eventually. 

Yeah, I'm assuming they'll wait until the baby's older and can tell his parents whether or not he hears the buzzing. I imagine Claire would want them out of harm's way given a major war is going to break out in five or six years, so that would be perfect timing for them to go back.

It's also a bit ironic all three stones came from Bonnett.

Speaking of which, I wonder if Murtaugh confirmed Bonnett was dead, or just assumed he had no chance of surviving the blast. Remember, the Regulators fled and didn't see him snag the key ring. I was almost half expecting one of those mid-credits scenes like they do in Marvel movies where we see Bonnett sailing off on his ship.

[ganesh]

8 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

Did anyone see Claire take note of Jocasta telling Murtagh to hide at the end? Claire is onto them! I saw this romance coming when Murtagh first went to River Run

Jamie gave a look at them too. 

8 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

I liked the ending with the setup of pitting Jamie against the Regulators-how will he get out of finding his Godfather & killing him?

It's a complicated but not impossible situation. Kill another criminal and burn the body. Not easy but if they actuality sat down and talked for once and made a real plan, it is doable. That's why I didn't find the end to be that dramatic. 

7 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Yeah, I'm assuming they'll wait until the baby's older and can tell his parents whether or not he hears the buzzing.

That's a fair point. By all accounts he should be able to go though. I bet that Claire is being careful but so far everything points to yes. 

I don't think Bonnet is dead because TV but he is so lame I don't care. Black Jack's death was lackluster so I suppose he could be dead. 

[Cdh20]

9 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Jamie gave a look at them too

I must watch again as I missed this!

9 minutes ago, ganesh said:

That's a fair point. By all accounts he should be able to go though. I bet that Claire is being careful but so far everything points to yes. 

I assume it's inherited! And this kid got the double travel gene!

9 minutes ago, ganesh said:

It's a complicated but not impossible situation. Kill another criminal and burn the body. Not easy but if they actuality sat down and talked for once and made a real plan, it is doable. That's why I didn't find the end to be that dramatic. 

Look at you-writing the scripts! Well we all know Jamie will eventually have to change sides, to be on the right side of history, Claire told him so.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Cdh20
adding a thought

[Nidratime]

Quote

I assume it's inherited! And this kid got the double travel gene!

He, at least, has the gene from Brianna. Don't know if that's *always* enough. (Can they be recessive?)

Edited January 28, 2019 by Nidratime

[Cdh20]

Oh yeah I guess he might only have 1 time travelling parent? 

[ganesh]

It stands to reason that if both Roger and Bree have the gene, then the baby does too. The show hasn't given us a reason to think otherwise. No one tried to go through and ended up with a broken nose. I agree it might be best to wait until he's old enough to confirm. 

If it's not Roger's it still might not matter, since Bree got it from Claire. Maybe it only comes down through the mother. 

I know this isn't that kind of show, but I'd really like to learn more about the stones. The lack of curiosity just bothers me. You'd think there would be more legends all over the place. 

[nara]

9 hours ago, cam3150 said:

 

I can give Roger a pass for needing a moment to think when he found out about Bree, etc. It was a lot and he wasn’t in the best place emotionally or physically already. Plus, he was expecting to go back home so choosing to stay meant giving up his 1970’s life....at least for the time being. He hasn’t had the best of luck in the 1700’s. Also it’s not a coincidence that they now have 3 gems. They’ll go back with the baby eventually. 

I agree. Roger has to think about living in a time that has been pretty miserable for him. Plus, he has few real skills for living in this world. And he has to be on the “wrong” side of the American Revolution so that has to be strange.

He also has a father-in-law that threatens him at every opportunity.

Regardless of what he feels for Brianna, this is a lot to think about, on top of the shock of hearing about what happened to Brianna. He seems less impetuous than our other main characters, so I can see him needing a few days free from Jamie’s disapproving eyes to think it through  and make a lifelong commitment.

[BitterApple]

One thing I found interesting is the fact that Otter Tooth is yet another example of someone traveling through the Stones to alter history and failing. He wanted to warn his people and ended up getting killed for it. Despite his attempt, the tribes were eradicated anyways.

So Otter Tooth failed, Geillis failed, Claire failed. If what's happened has happened, how are Jamie and Claire going to avoid the fire? 

[Nidratime]

Quote

And he has to be on the “wrong” side of the American Revolution so that has to be strange.

Why does Roger have to be on the wrong side of the American Revolution?

Quote

So Otter Tooth failed, Geillis failed, Claire failed. If what's happened has happened, how are Jamie and Claire going to avoid the fire?

Otter Tooth didn't fail at warning them, he just failed at getting them to do more than they already had been doing about it. And, as we know, Native Americans weren't exactly ignorant to what was happening, they were just overwhelmed by greater numbers and by "technology," such as it was. In actuality, it seems that Otter Tooth couldn't really be more than a Cassandra or perhaps a Geronimo, i.e., someone who warns but is not listened to or someone who manages to mount a rebellion, but is destined to be defeated because of such overwhelming odds. 

Edited January 28, 2019 by Nidratime

[ganesh]

9 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

One thing I found interesting is the fact that Otter Tooth is yet another example of someone traveling through the Stones to alter history and failing.

Good point. Which again warrants some investigation into people who use the stones. Though it's very much a reason for Jamie to tread lightly. He hasn't really ever disagreed with Claire when it comes to 'future history' though.

If I were Roger, I'd be like "hey maybe we should stay at Riverrun for a while the baby is still an infant." It might actually be better for him to be away from Jamie for a while. 

[nara]

40 minutes ago, Nidratime said:

Why does Roger have to be on the wrong side of the American Revolution?

 

I meant that if they settle in NC, he will likely be fighting against the British. (Not sure what happened to people living there who sided with the British, but I imagine they didn’t stay in the new U.S. afterwards.) Being British himself, that probably feels uncomfortable.

[ganesh]

The rate he's going, he'll be lucky if he doesn't get a splinter and die. 

[Nidratime]

Quote

I meant that if they settle in NC, he will likely be fighting against the British. (Not sure what happened to people living there who sided with the British, but I imagine they didn’t stay in the new U.S. afterwards.) Being British himself, that probably feels uncomfortable.

Roger's a Scot and so are a number of the other colonists who would be fighting on the Revolutionary side, including Murtagh and his Regulators. Knowing what they know about the future, Roger would be a fool to fight for the British. 

[Netfoot]

12 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

And he was the man on the bench in the opening title who was upset seeing the children dressed as a "cowboy and Indian" for Halloween.

Oh, yes?  I wondered who that was and how they connected.  Simply didn't make that connection.

On 1/27/2019 at 5:50 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I had to laugh at Murtaugh and Jocasta complaining about how terrible rum is.

Sitting here, less than 20 miles from the birthplace of rum.... I will just mention what horsepiss whiskey is.

[taanja]

12 hours ago, cam3150 said:

Even as much as Roger has gotten on my nerves this season I was going to be soooo mad at him if he didn’t reunite with Brianna. I mean, he went through hell numerous times trying to get back to her and then he just leaves because the baby might not be his?  Cheesy as it was, I liked their “run through a meadow” reunion. I’m in the minority I guess because I like Roger overall. He’s got his issues for sure but I like him  

I liked this episode but I’ve liked this whole season more than it seems most have. I always love the time travel episodes and seeing how everyone reacts to the situations and people so this season delivered on that front in multiple ways. I did tire of the Roger/Mowhawk storyline but everything else went at warp speed. 

I hate to lose Young Ian (and the dog!) but I am so, so, so glad it wasn’t Jamie  who stayed behind. I would not have looked forward to another season of Jamie and Claire being apart. The show works better when they’re together as a team. 

Jamie is definitely aware of Jo & Murtagh. He was giving them the side eye when she was rushing him off to he slave quarters. 

I can give Roger a pass for needing a moment to think when he found out about Bree, etc. It was a lot and he wasn’t in the best place emotionally or physically already. expecting to go back home so choosing to stay meant giving up his 1970’s life ....at least for the time being. He hasn’t had the best of luck in the 1700’s. Also it’s not a coincidence that they now have 3 gems. They’ll go back with the baby eventually. 

I enjoyed the entire season -- no one got on my nerves.

I was personally urging Roger to get the hell outta dodge! But I guess seeing how much Brianna was missing him.. ok! It made her happy. I liked the cheesy run through the field reunion/hug. It was cute. It warmed my cold cold heart. Plus I wondered if Rodge took a few extra days to get back to River Run cuz he was looking for that stone circle again-- this time marking it on a map so he can find it! (though if I had my druthers-- I would hook Bree and Lord John up and let Roger go home!)

Don't care about the dog but Ian looked happy that he was accepted into the tribe. And the tribe traded a slave for an active member-- so win for them!

Why can't the baby time travel? They really need to explain (to the viewing audience) how those stones work. Like have none of these fools done any kind of research? I just don't get how they work!!!!! How does Claire know that baby can't go? Why can't Jaime go into their time (the future?) and Otter Tooth time traveled? Right? How? when? why? I obviously put way too much effort thinking about this! haha!

Anyway-- I liked this ep so much I will; probably watch again.

[Nidratime]

Quote

How does Claire know that baby can't go? 

I don't think she was saying they definitely know the baby can't go, but at this point, they don't know if the baby has the ability. It's not like they can ask an infant if it can hear the buzzing at the stones. Furthermore, we've only seen one person go at a time. How we know what would happen if two go together? Will they end up in the same place?

[ganesh]

43 minutes ago, taanja said:

Why can't the baby time travel? They really need to explain (to the viewing audience) how those stones work. Like have none of these fools done any kind of research?

I don't think they have, and I suspect the author hasn't either. I don't mind that who can actually travel through the stones isn't explained. I also don't need a thorough scientific paper on the nature of it, but there's a lot of questions that I think would naturally come up. I would just want to know who knows about them out of curiosity. Other travelers were mentioned really early on in the series. 

I think Claire was just being risk averse about speculating whether the baby could go through. We know it's not only women who can travel, so that's out. Maybe she's worried because the baby was born 'in the past' which could be a fair concern. So far, the origins of all the travelers have been future to past first, then return. If the baby can travel, then he might go back to the 1570s. If he's never been in 1970, maybe he can't go there. Reasons why I'd want to know more. That's fine if that's the case, but I'm just really interested in that. 

[Hannah Lee]

18 hours ago, BitterApple said:

That's pretty much my feeling as well. I understand hearing about what happened to Brianna was a lot to take in, but you're either in it for better or worse or you aren't. Brianna is technically his wife and there's a 50% chance the baby is his. There really shouldn't have been any hesitation on his part. I don't know if he traveled with Jamie and Claire back to the South or parted ways in New York only to follow shortly after, but either way he looks like a jerk. 

I also wanted to add the season ending cliffhanger was sort of "meh". We all knew Jamie's deal with the Devil would come back to bite him eventually, so it really wasn't a surprise. 

Also, did anyone else think Brianna looked a bit hesitant when Claire said they were taking her back to Frasier's Ridge? Methinks she's gotten used to the good life and doesn't want to go back to mucking around in the woods.

 

Did Roger even ever say "Is Brianna alright?"  He was all 'furrowed brow' about paternity, but it played like "I love her, she's my wife, where is she?" "BTW, she was brutally attacked, is pregnant, and the child might not be yours" straight to "...hmmm, I'm not sure if I want to take this on" without so much as a "oh, poor Brianna, how is she? how is she coping with all this?"

[Hannah Lee]

4 hours ago, ganesh said:

It stands to reason that if both Roger and Bree have the gene, then the baby does too. The show hasn't given us a reason to think otherwise. No one tried to go through and ended up with a broken nose. I agree it might be best to wait until he's old enough to confirm. 

If it's not Roger's it still might not matter, since Bree got it from Claire. Maybe it only comes down through the mother. 

I know this isn't that kind of show, but I'd really like to learn more about the stones. The lack of curiosity just bothers me. You'd think there would be more legends all over the place. 

I think it might be a probability/risk calculation.  Sure, it's *possible* the baby can travel through the stones, maybe even probable.  But the only way to find out is to try it and if it turns out he can't they risk Bree and the baby being separated, with the baby left in the 1700's and no guarantee Bree can get back, or even worse, Bree going back to the 1970's and the baby winding up alone who knows where (or when) with no way ever for them to find him.   If it was my child, grandchild, there is no way on God's green earth I would risk it.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Hannah Lee

[ganesh]

I think that's the general feeling about the whole thing. Moving beyond just that, it seems likely that the baby should be able to travel, but it's not known to what time period it would be. 

It's too bad they didn't know about the American stones because we know even if she's pregnant, she could return to the 70s and have the baby there, and come back whenever. 

Claire found the skull with the fillings in it and concluded he came from the future. One would think she would have made the logical conclusion there were stones here, and maybe gone looked for them just to see if they were the same. Nice to know they're there as a last resort failsafe. Yet she was surprised when Roger said he found them. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

2 hours ago, Nidratime said:

I don't think she was saying they definitely know the baby can't go, but at this point, they don't know if the baby has the ability. It's not like they can ask an infant if it can hear the buzzing at the stones. Furthermore, we've only seen one person go at a time. How we know what would happen if two go together? Will they end up in the same place?

Those are all the possibilities Claire brought up to Bree when she was telling her she would have to decide now about keeping the baby, yes.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Noneofyourbusiness

[BitterApple]

I wonder if Roger and Brianna will delve into the time travel conundrum next season. It would make sense that they'd want a complete picture of how it works before risking a trip through the stones with their child. I feel like we'll get answers eventually. While it's not something that makes or breaks the show for me, I agree with those who find it odd that the characters aren't more curious about the process.

Another random thought: Jamie, Claire, Brianna, Roger, the baby, Lizzie, Fergus, Marsali, the other baby and Murtaugh are now all going to be at Fraser's Ridge. Where the hell are they going to put everybody? From what I could see the only dwellings were the cabin and that little tree hut. Jamie's going to have to use his warp speed construction skills to build a nice subdivision.

[Cdh20]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

I wonder if Roger and Brianna will delve into the time travel conundrum next season. It would make sense that they'd want a complete picture of how it works before risking a trip through the stones with their child. I feel like we'll get answers eventually. While it's not something that makes or breaks the show for me, I agree with those who find it odd that the characters aren't more curious about the process.

Another random thought: Jamie, Claire, Brianna, Roger, the baby, Lizzie, Fergus, Marsali, the other baby and Murtaugh are now all going to be at Fraser's Ridge. Where the hell are they going to put everybody? From what I could see the only dwellings were the cabin and that little tree hut. Jamie's going to have to use his warp speed construction skills to build a nice subdivision.

I hope each family is getting their own house! 

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

I feel like we'll get answers eventually. While it's not something that makes or breaks the show for me, I agree with those who find it odd that the characters aren't more curious about the process.

I would be surprised if we do. 

[Chiodo7]

I thought it was really lame that Brianna didn't even ask about her cousin, especially since he had just given up his life for her!  I knew I hated her character for a reason.  Either that, or the show runners messed up big time. 

[cam3150]

It could have been assumed to happen off screen. There were several things that happened off screen that I wanted more information on — how did the Mohawk get Roger back for one (he was a split second from touching the stone) and when did Roger leave Jamie and Claire for another (did they leave him in NY or did he come with them to NC while making up his mind only to bail at the last minute). I know the basics, I just want many more details. 

I am glad we got to see Claire tell Roger about Bree on camera. Sometimes that kind of thing happens off screen or during a music montage. That scene was riveting to me. 

[Cdh20]

There could have been a lot more dialogue, and conversations, especially at River Run.