S05.E10: Don't Go Dark on Me

[Bort]

As the investigation into Miller’s murder intensifies, Bonnie and Nate formulate their alibis while Annalise devises a plan to ensure Gabriel never learns the truth about his father.

Airdate: Thursday, January 24, 2019

[wanderingstar]

It's been five seasons, and Nate has still not once been interesting. Even joining the show's roster of murderers hasn't made him interesting.

I am glad Asher spilled the beans about Miller to the rest of the crew.

So, Gabriel was working with Miller, possibly to take down Annalise & Co. This back half of the season may hold my attention yet.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Gillian Rosh

[Dee]

Tegan is delightful.

[Annber03]

13 minutes ago, Dee said:

Tegan is delightful.

Agreed :). 

Gah. Everything with Annalise and Eve tonight was so bittersweet. I'm glad they were able to say a few things and have a proper talk before they parted, though. And I like Eve looking out for her. I also like that Frank was totally on board with their relationship :D. 

And Bonnie struggling with everything with Miller...she'll be desperate to do whatever she can to try and alleviate or bury her guilt, and that has me a bit nervous about what she might do next. 

1 hour ago, Gillian Rosh said:

I am glad Asher spilled the beans about Miller to the rest of the crew.

Same. Lord knows there's already enough secrets out there, they don't need to add more. Will be interesting to see how the gang deals with that. 

[Empress1]

10 hours ago, Dee said:

Tegan is delightful.

I love her. And she always has the best lipstick.

9 hours ago, Annber03 said:

And Bonnie struggling with everything with Miller...she'll be desperate to do whatever she can to try and alleviate or bury her guilt, and that has me a bit nervous about what she might do next. 

I thought those love Post-Its were so cute. You could tell she was wrestling with a lot in that scene - kudos to the actress.

[Free]

11 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

It's been five seasons, and Nate has still not once been interesting. Even joining the show's roster of murderers hasn't made him interesting.

Probably because he hasn't really done much in the grand scheme of things, he's usually been a plot device that helps cleans up after Annalise and the Keating 5.

[blackwing]

I would watch an entire show about Tegan and Annalise.  Everything about Tegan is perfect... the way she dresses, the way she walks, the way she talks and delivers her lines, her facial expressions.  She is the best thing about the show right now.

Because unfortunately, I am not very much interested in any of the plotlines going on right now... everything about Gabriel (just go away already), everything about Sam (let him rest), everything about Wes (same), Miller's murder and cover up (seems lackluster compared to some mysteries in past seasons) but most especially, the never-ending, never-dying "Justice for Nate Senior" plot.  I just don't really care about any of this.

I particularly liked how the show hinted at a future Tegan/Annalise hookup.  And even Emmett was supportive.  Or perhaps a Tegan/Michaela hookup.  Tegan was intrigued by Michaela's seeming openness.  At least one of these two must happen otherwise it would be very cruel of the show to tease this way.  Anything to get Tegan onscreen more.

With respect to the Miller cover-up, now that Bonnie knows he did not order the killing of Nate Senior, I wonder where it goes from here.  Wonder if someone takes the fall.  I hope it's Nate and they get this boring character off the show.  Alternatively, Asher.  Asher is boring and useless and no longer contributes anything useful to the show.

Then again, most of the characters have become boring.  Laurel is boring.  Oliver and Connor are now boring.  But Frank and Bonnie have stepped it up.  And I still like Michaela.  I wouldn't be displeased with a show with only Annalise, Tegan, Michaela, Eve, Bonnie and Frank.  The five women can form their own law firm and Frank will be their fixer.

[helenamonster]

I know Eve has moved on to somebody else and there's really no justification for keeping her around longer than a couple episodes, but would it really be so much to just have Famke Janssen stand in the background of every scene in one of those off-the-shoulder sweaters? Because hot damn, girlfriend is looking great.

Also echoing the Tegan love. I don't necessarily wish for the implosion of Eve's current relationship, especially if they're going to have a baby, but I would welcome any excuse to get the two of those women in a room together. Can they offer Eve a position at Caplan & Gold that she can't say no to? Please???

Liza Weil continues to do great, nuanced, underappreciated work. As predicted, it's looking like Miller really didn't have anything to do with Nate Sr.'s death, but I wouldn't put it past this show to do another twist on that front. His wording on the phone call was vague enough that it could still turn out to be him thanking the warden for helping get Nate Sr. killed, but keeping things ambiguous in case anybody should get ahold of the recording. Of course, Nate and Bonnie killing an innocent man is the more interesting path to go down (and this is the last time you will see me use the words "Nate" and "interesting" in the same sentence), though it may turn out that he had ulterior motives relating to Gabriel.

Also glad that Asher came clean about the Miller stuff to the rest of the kids. It gets the story moving on that front.

The actress playing the blonde FBI agent was super familiar. People here are usually great at identifying recognizable character actors...any ideas?

[Denis]

Please God, I want to keep watching this show, make it exciting again!

There is no stardust for me anymore except for Tegan. Tegan has an amazing presence in the show and is some new life to everyone.

Also the Nate Jr & Sr situations are very stretched out. I loved the flash episodes in the beginning of the series where it felt like they were invincible and could handle anything thrown at them. But nowadays it feels like all that was just bait for something less. I know there is so much more to this show than right now is showing, hell I was here the first episode and never stopped since, so please honey, step ya pussy up!!!

 

But I do wonder what Bonnie will do with the voicemail... We all know that now Nate told Annalise everything, she will handle it. But I just wonder HOW she'll do it. 

 

Find out next week I guess lolz

[wanderingstar]

Tegan saying "Who did you kill?" to Emmett after learning he'd met death penalty lawyer, Eve, cracked me up. In fact, that whole scene where they teased each other about being into Annalise was hilarious.

 

ETA: @helenamonster - Agent Telesco is played by Melinda Page Hamilton, who has been in a bunch of stuff, but is probably best known for playing Anna Draper (the real Don Draper's wife) in Mad Men.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Gillian Rosh

[tennisgurl]

The Tegan and Emmett banter was surprisingly funny, and I love their apparent mutual crushes on Annalise. Tegan really is delightful to have around, I love her so much. She is so much fun and adds so much energy to the show. 

Love that Frank ships Eve and Annalise. I know that it probably cant work out for them, as Eve has a partner and a baby on the way, but I just love them together, even platonically like this. God I wish I could rock an off the shoulder sweater the way she does. 

Bonnie is clearly heartbroken, but is holding it together. Liza is killing it, you can see her trying to walk the tightrope of being terribly sad, but in a way that speaks of a girlfriend, or very recent ex, not a mercy killer. I really hope that it turns out that Miller had nothing to do with Nate Srs death, it would make this whole situation even more terribly tragic, and be a dark continuation of people on this show killing people angrily in the moment, or in self defense. Finally, it leads to an innocent person being murdered. 

Glad that Asher spilled the beans already, no way do they need more secrets between them all. Connor telling Laurel such nice things about Wes was sweet, given how Connor was always ready to give Wes shit back when he was alive. 

[Bort]

2 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Agent Telesco is played by Melinda Page Hamilton, who has been in a bunch of stuff, but is probably best known for playing Anna Draper (the real Don Draper's wife) in Mad Men.

I always remember Melinda Page Hamilton as Sister Mary Hotpants from Desperate Housewives.

[Annber03]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Connor telling Laurel such nice things about Wes was sweet, given how Connor was always ready to give Wes shit back when he was alive. 

I loved when he was telling Christopher, "Your dad was a superhero, and that means you're a superhero, too." That was such a cute scene. 

[NUguy514]

I feel like this show has forgotten that Wes actually did kill Sam.  The K5 (minus Asher) attempted to get rid of the body, but Wes is the one who actually did the killing.  So, I'm struggling with that whole Gabriel-wants-to-know-what-happened plot because what happened was Wes killed Sam; I guess he could take them all down for trying to cover up the murder, but no one else actually killed Sam.  Because of this, I rolled my eyes when Connor told Christopher his dad was a superhero; it's a sweet thing to tell the kid (and Laurel), but no, he was not.

Tegan.  More Tegan.  Always.  And Eve in amazing sweaters.

[bantering]

I thought Michaela killed Sam when she hit him with the trophy.....or something. OR maybe it was Laurel? Or a combination of people accidentally whacking him upside the head? Or, er, yeah.

Nonetheless, I do think the whole reason everyone landed in this mess is because of Wes's obsession with Rebecca. Had he not insisted they defend her, the killing of Sam likely wouldn't have happened.

There have been so many murders on this show, I can't really remember who did what to whom anymore.

This show was more interesting when they also included law cases, as in the first season. Does anyone still go to class?

They might as well have kept Wes alive if Gabriel was going to be his substitute. 

Edited January 26, 2019 by bantering

[blackwing]

4 minutes ago, bantering said:

I thought Michaela killed Sam when she hit him with the trophy.....or something.

But the whole reason everyone landed in this mess is because of Wes's obsession with Rebecca. Had he not insisted they defend her, the killing of Sam likely wouldn't have happened.

There have been so many murders on this show, I can't really remember who did what to whom anymore.

This show was more interesting when they also included law cases, as in the first season. Does anyone still go to class?

I believe Sam was trying to get the flash drive from Rebecca.  Laurel grabbed it and ran up the stairs.  Sam chases after her and I thought Michaela hit him and he fell over the railing and apparently died.  But then he came back to life and was choking Rebecca when Wes killed him with the trophy.

Now this brings back memories of how much I loathed Rebecca, because, yes, Wes’ obsession with protecting her is what caused the whole mess.

Nobody is shown going to class anymore because although they are 3Ls, Annalise doesn’t teach at the school anymore.  She runs the clinic out of Caplan and Gold and the students meet there.  This season of course has had the never-ending Nate Lahey Senior case.  But yes, I agree, I always liked when they had a case of the week.

[Happytobehere]

On 1/24/2019 at 11:29 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

It's been five seasons, and Nate has still not once been interesting. Even joining the show's roster of murderers hasn't made him interesting.

I am glad Asher spilled the beans about Miller to the rest of the crew.

So, Gabriel was working with Miller, possibly to take down Annalise & Co. This back half of the season may hold my attention yet.

 

It’s because the actor isn’t good. He’s good at his narrow role, being a hot body but, the skills aren’t there. Unfortunately his limitations become glaringly clear when he has storylines. His scenes with Viola and Glen Truman being among the examples. I personally hope this storyline gives us Nate’s exit from the show as the character always seems to suck the energy out of the room.

So the show is going to reveal Miller to be a problem that would have required dealing with, but not necessarily a party to the murder of Nate’s father.

While it looks like the show is putting the possibility of an Annalise and Eve relationship to bed, this is the pairing I like best for Annalise.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Happytobehere

[Lady Calypso]

Yeah, add me to the list of people who just doesn't care about Nate's storyline. After five seasons, he still feels like a pointless character for me. He could have been a dead body at any point and I would have been fairly happy. 

I am annoyed with the retcon about Wes from Connor. Sure, Connor and the others were complicit, but Wes, indeed, killed Sam. He hit him over the head with the trophy that killed him. So really, everyone else was helping to cover up the murder. Wes was no superhero because his actions were directly because of Rebecca. That being said, the moment between Connor and Christopher was really cute.

No surprise Bonnie finally found out about Miller NOT issuing the hit to kill Nate Sr. I did enjoy that it was Asher who steered her on the path to figure it out. I was impressed with how well they used Asher this episode. I wasn't annoyed with him at any point. Although when he was asked by the Keating 4 about him knowing about Miller's disappearance, he probably should have said that he knew but wasn't allowed to talk about it. Either way, everyone knows about Nate (and Bonnie) killing him. 

So, with Frank saying that he always thought Eve and Annalise were "endgame", does that mean we're slowly getting to the end of the series and that Eve and Annalise will end up being a couple again?

[darkestboy]

Much better focus this week on the main plots. If Miller genuinely was a good guy, then both Bonnie and Nate really are screwed. The mental gymnastics both of them are doing right now is something else.

Loved how quickly Michaela and Laurel worked out that Asher knew about Miller's death as well.

Oliver, cheer up man. You're meant to be the hopeful one of the group.

Connor's words to Christophe about Wes were sweet even if he was never this nice to the latter when he was alive.

Gabriel and Miller working together doesn't seem that shocking.

Does the show plan to go there with either Tegan/Michaela or Tegan/Annalise? Found Emmett teasing Tegan about Annalise a little amusing too.

Annalise and Eve really do have the best chemistry. No wonder Frank even thinks they're endgame. 8/10

[Joimiaroxeu]

Famke looked to me like she's had some work done. She had those telltale lumps in her cheeks.

Relying on Asher to keep his mouth shut is always a fool's game. The guy can't keep a secret to save his life.

So are they trying to lighten up Emmett? Almost odd to see him smiling and laughing.

What, Gabriel was working with Miller? Okay, the murder gang can pin Miller's killing on him. Except for the part where Nate wants to pin it on the governor.

[helenamonster]

On 1/25/2019 at 12:27 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

ETA: @helenamonster- Agent Telesco is played by Melinda Page Hamilton, who has been in a bunch of stuff, but is probably best known for playing Anna Draper (the real Don Draper's wife) in Mad Men.

 

22 hours ago, kariyaki said:

I always remember Melinda Page Hamiltonas Sister Mary Hotpants from Desperate Housewives.

Thank you both--these are exactly the two shows I know her from. She'll probably recur in a few more episodes as the Miller investigation continues so I'm glad I have an answer or else it would drive me crazy.

[Lovecat]

I tsk-ed disapprovingly when Liza Weil forgot her southeastern Pennsylvania roots and mispronounced Lancaster.  The flat “Lan-cass-ter” pronunciation is the city in California; the town in PA Amish country is “LANK-uh-ster” (hit the first syllable hard, and swallow the rest).

[possibilities]

I think abou thalf the  murders on this show were of innocent people.

Lila, Rebecca, even DA Smugface. I hated her smugface but she was right that they were coverin gthings up. And Rebecca was being framed, Wes was right to want to defend her. Lila was a pregnant teenager by Sam, who was totally out of line not only for ordering the hit, but also for bonking a student and then threatening her. Whether these characters were likable or not, murder was not a proportionate reaction.

I think Sam was the most deserving, in that he was killed by accident while he was trying to kill someone else. And he also had ordered the hit on Lila, so he's scum.

And Miller, as far as we've been told so far, was also totally innocent, though I realize we may find out otherwise in another twist.

I agree that Nate's problem is that the actor playing him has only one mode. He stands and glistens and nods or grunts. I don't think he's ever shown any emotion or mood at all, he's just like a hunk of marble.

I forget who else was murdered. I feel like there were more, but I can't think who right now.

[colorbars]

I'm so sad to see Eve go already, and that they kind of gave even more closure to Eve/Annalise, but I feel like that kiss at the end (and Frank's words earlier) give me hope that she might pop up as Annalise's endgame come the series finale. They obviously needed a reason for why Eve couldn't stick around, and seemed to want to open Annalise up to dating again (Tegan, please! Though I go back and forth between if they're trying to set her up with Annalise or Michaela), plus, it almost served as a reminder to the general audience of who Eve is and what she means to Annalise. I'm not giving up hope yet.

Miller being innocent is no surprise to pretty much anyone, but I wouldn't be surprised if the call from Gabriel was about taking Annalise and co down, so that him dying didn't end up being totally bad. But I can't imagine how either her or Nate is going to handle this information in the meantime, since I feel like they'll let them struggle with it for a bit before they find out about the Gabriel connection.

Curious what the K5 will do with this information - they don't really have a reason to be involved in it, but it feels really weird for them not to be.

[UNOSEZ]

On 1/26/2019 at 9:24 AM, Lady Calypso said:

Wes was no superhero because his actions were directly because of Rebecca

I'm not loving the retcon of Connor calling Wes a superhero.. But only because Connor was a dick to Wes most of the series... And his "obsession" with Rebecca didn't really start this as much as Sam being an asshole.. For cheating on yet another wife.. Then ordering the death of the girl he got pregnant.. And when the girl's friend started looking into who murdered her that's how she got wrapped up in this.. Mind you Sam was trying to assault someone when Michaela initially whacked him... And was in the process of killing Rebecca when he was finally put down... I didn't know saving the life of someone you care about was so looked down upon around here

[colorbars]

Truly, it all started before Rebecca was even in the picture. I've always considered Frank telling that lady the info on where Annalise would be so the car crash would happen was the beginning of it all. Had Frank not done that, he wouldn't have been under Sam's thumb, and Frank wouldn't have killed Lila - not to mention Annalise would've had her own son and wouldn't have been so involved with Wes, etc.

Blaming it on Wes's "obsession" with Rebecca - who actually was innocent of Lila's murder - is kind of short sighted, in my opinion. Sam had already had Frank kill Lila by that point, who was pregnant with Sam's child... It's way more complicated than that one moment of Wes killing Sam to save Rebecca, as things had already been set into motion long before that. Besides, you could also blame Connor and co for not listening to Wes about what do to with the body, as they insisted on simply dumping it in the garbage when Wes (though Annalise's advice) had other plans, and it got discovered almost immediately. Had his body never been discovered so soon (or at all), who knows how things would've turned out.

[healthnut]

What did Famke do to her face? Cheek implants? Botox? She looks strange. 

[jhlipton]

On 1/26/2019 at 2:47 AM, Happytobehere said:

it looks like the show is putting the possibility of an Annalise and Eve relationship to bed, 

To bed. to the floor, to the kitchen table (don't worry, we'll clean it thoroughly after!)...

[Lady Calypso]

On 27/01/2019 at 12:48 PM, UNOSEZ said:

I'm not loving the retcon of Connor calling Wes a superhero.. But only because Connor was a dick to Wes most of the series... And his "obsession" with Rebecca didn't really start this as much as Sam being an asshole.. For cheating on yet another wife.. Then ordering the death of the girl he got pregnant.. And when the girl's friend started looking into who murdered her that's how she got wrapped up in this.. Mind you Sam was trying to assault someone when Michaela initially whacked him... And was in the process of killing Rebecca when he was finally put down... I didn't know saving the life of someone you care about was so looked down upon around here

Very true and I don't dispute that. My point was more about what Connor said about Wes "saving" them and that whole conversation making it seem like Connor and the others killed Sam. Although yes, Connor was never nice to Wes and they struggled to have a good relationship up until his death. And Sam absolutely caused his own demise. I have to say that he kind of deserved everything he got. Sam's actions are what got him killed. I just also think Wes killed Sam more because of Rebecca. Had Wes not been so insistent on helping to save Rebecca, things might have turned out differently. Maybe someone else in the Keating 4 would have killed Sam, or maybe Sam would have never died since Rebecca wouldn't have been at the house for Sam to attack her. 

This show is really hammering in the subject of two dead characters carrying more importance than they should have. They're both dead. Let's focus on the living characters who we have very little background on. We still need resolutions to Connor's dad and his threat toward Oliver. We still could use more about Oliver's family that's not just one episode. We could definitely use more of Michaela's family stuff that was only barely touched on. We could....actually, we don't need any more Laurel, but at least she's still alive. I don't need an umpteenth version of Wes being a superhero or Sam being a colossus dickhead for a fifth season. 

[possibilities]

6 hours ago, jhlipton said:

To bed. to the floor, to the kitchen table (don't worry, we'll clean it thoroughly after!)...

This won't happen, because it's ABC, but my solution is for Annalise to join Eve and her wife in a poly marriage. Why not? She'd be with The One (plus!) and she'd finally get a child in the bargain. I see Annalise being happy with them in CA, forming a new family where no one is getting murdered, nothing is being covered up, and she can do some kind of public interest law that doesn't involve the undertow of all the past horrors. That's my happy ending.

[jhlipton]

13 hours ago, possibilities said:

This won't happen, because it's ABC, but my solution is for Annalise to join Eve and her wife in a poly marriage. Why not? She'd be with The One (plus!) and she'd finally get a child in the bargain. I see Annalise being happy with them in CA, forming a new family where no one is getting murdered, nothing is being covered up, and she can do some kind of public interest law that doesn't involve the undertow of all the past horrors. That's my happy ending.

Can Tegan and Katherine and her son Theo from A Million Little Things join them?  Katherine is seriously the only decent person on that show so everyone (including the showrunner, I think) hates her.

[possibilities]

I would love that!

[Hazel55]

On 1/24/2019 at 11:27 PM, Dee said:

Tegan is delightful.

Amirah Vann is fantastic, and her chemistry with Michaela is enthralling. Bring on the bi fabuality! 

But seriously, Tegan is highly charismatic, and her chemistry with nearly everyone manages to imbue even the most boring characters with some sort of human interest. (Like Analizes "possibly guilty of sexual misconduct, but he's so boring I honestly don't care if he's wrongly accused or not" white guy coworker, who I always just refer to as "Mr. Pasty," since I can't be bothered to remember his name.) Speaking of whom-- please don't let that guy hook up with Analize. No, just... no. 

On 1/24/2019 at 10:29 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

It's been five seasons, and Nate has still not once been interesting.

I hope Miller ends up being innocent, despite whatever he clearly had going on with Gabriel-- simply because it would show Bonnie and Nate not to fly off the handle and kill someone on next to no evidence. It's killing me how Nate continues to eschew responsibility for beating an unarmed man to death, insisting that it was Miller's own fault for (possibly) arranging Nate's father's murder. Um, nate: 1. YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW MILLER WAS GUILTY, for crying in the night; 2. If he is, do your father true justice by slowly acquiring evidence against Miller and planning his downfall. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm appalled at what happened to Nate's father, and can't wholly blame Nate for wanting justice, even if it is vigilante justice. But the fact is that Nate had next to no hard evidence against Miller continues to be my issue. And furthermore, even if he did just fly off the handle due to emotional stress caused by the trauma of his loss, Nate should be able to see now, in the aftermath, that he does not really have enough evidence to know for sure whether Miller was involved in Nate's father's death. All he really has is a picture of Miller by a pay phone. At least Bonnie, while she acted with equal callousness and stupidity, cared enough to try to find the truth in the end. 

[jhlipton]

2 hours ago, Hazel55 said:

At least Bonnie, while she acted with equal callousness and stupidity, cared enough to try to find the truth in the end. 

I don't think Bonnie was callous or stupid.  By time she arrived on the scene, the damage was done and Miller was dying, in pain.  It's probable he would have been gone long before they got him to an ER.  She thought she was doing him a favor by ending his pain.  Now she has to deal with one of the dumbest guys on the show -- she has to think for both of them (at least until Annalise steps in).

[Hazel55]

3 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I don't think Bonnie was callous or stupid.  By time she arrived on the scene, the damage was done and Miller was dying, in pain.  

So then she... sat down the 6 month year old baby she'd been left to watch in the snow, and proceeded to smother him? You're really gonna argue that was a smart move on Bonnie's part? 

3 hours ago, jhlipton said:

 She thought she was doing him a favor by ending his pain.  

And then she proceeded to play an instrumental role in helping Nate cover up the murder. 

3 hours ago, jhlipton said:

 Now she has to deal with one of the dumbest guys on the show -- she has to think for both of them (at least until Annalise steps in).

She is in this position due to her own actions. I feel sorry for her, but putting a baby down in the snow to help complete a brutal murder, then helping the murderer cover up his actions was a pretty questionable move on her part. I am not arguing that Bonnie is dumb-- far from it. But she did behave "Stupidly and callously" here, I don't see how there can be any argument about that. 

Edited January 30, 2019 by Hazel55

[jhlipton]

15 hours ago, Hazel55 said:

she proceeded to play an instrumental role in helping Nate cover up the murder. 

That was dumb, I agree.  I don't know why she felt obligated to cover up a rash and REALLY stupid act from Nate.   I didn't feel that she owes him that kind of loyalty.

[possibilities]

I think Bonnie believes she owes everyone in Annalise's orbit her loyalty. They are  her family. Also, I think she's insecure enough about herself that she would assume Nate was right and she was wrong, and her boyfriend was a terrible person because nothing ever goes well for her.

I'm not endorsing her viewpoint. I just think that's what it is.

[jhlipton]

That sounds like our Bon-Bon.

[blackwing]

On 1/26/2019 at 11:09 PM, possibilities said:

I think abou thalf the  murders on this show were of innocent people.

Lila, Rebecca, even DA Smugface. I hated her smugface but she was right that they were coverin gthings up. And Rebecca was being framed, Wes was right to want to defend her. Lila was a pregnant teenager by Sam, who was totally out of line not only for ordering the hit, but also for bonking a student and then threatening her. Whether these characters were likable or not, murder was not a proportionate reaction.

I think Sam was the most deserving, in that he was killed by accident while he was trying to kill someone else. And he also had ordered the hit on Lila, so he's scum.

And Miller, as far as we've been told so far, was also totally innocent, though I realize we may find out otherwise in another twist.

I agree that Nate's problem is that the actor playing him has only one mode. He stands and glistens and nods or grunts. I don't think he's ever shown any emotion or mood at all, he's just like a hunk of marble.

I forget who else was murdered. I feel like there were more, but I can't think who right now.

Wes was murdered by Dominick.  Wes definitely wasn't clean, although he didn't deserve to die at the hands of Dominick.

Dominick was murdered by Frank.  Deserved.

Denver was murdered by Jorge Castillo.  Denver was dirty and unethical and his employer was cleaning up loose ends.

Bonnie's dad was murdered by Frank.  Not a good person.

Wallace Mahoney was shot by Frank.  He was arguably deserving.

Caleb Hapstall killed his parents and his aunt.  I think those were undeserved.

So apart from the murders you listed, I think the only innocent people were the Hapstalls.  It's interesting how many murders Frank has been involved in... is he winning the prize right now of the characters alive on the show?  Four kills for him to Bonnie's two.

Edited February 5, 2019 by blackwing

[Milaxx]

On 1/25/2019 at 11:12 AM, Free said:

Probably because he hasn't really done much in the grand scheme of things, he's usually been a plot device that helps cleans up after Annalise and the Keating 5.

I agree. I think him having Denver’s files, trying to help Bonnie, his dad’s case, etc... have all been attempts to bring him into the the fold as something other than AK’s boy toy.  I also agree Billy Brown’s limited acting range makes that a hard sell.

On 1/25/2019 at 7:10 PM, NUguy514 said:

I feel like this show has forgotten that Wes actually did kill Sam.  The K5 (minus Asher) attempted to get rid of the body, but Wes is the one who actually did the killing.  So, I'm struggling with that whole Gabriel-wants-to-know-what-happened plot because what happened was Wes killed Sam; I guess he could take them all down for trying to cover up the murder, but no one else actually killed Sam.  Because of this, I rolled my eyes when Connor told Christopher his dad was a superhero; it's a sweet thing to tell the kid (and Laurel), but no, he was not.

Tegan.  More Tegan.  Always.  And Eve in amazing sweaters.

Wes did kill Sam, but when they blamed him for Sam’s death and the house fire it was to cover up more than killing Sam. They made him out to be a psycho who killed Sam for no reason. So part os what Connor was talking about was the guilt they feel about blaming Wes for Sam’s murder to cover up what they did to Lila, Rebecca and Sinclair.

On 1/27/2019 at 4:25 PM, colorbars said:

Truly, it all started before Rebecca was even in the picture. I've always considered Frank telling that lady the info on where Annalise would be so the car crash would happen was the beginning of it all. Had Frank not done that, he wouldn't have been under Sam's thumb, and Frank wouldn't have killed Lila - not to mention Annalise would've had her own son and wouldn't have been so involved with Wes, etc.

Blaming it on Wes's "obsession" with Rebecca - who actually was innocent of Lila's murder - is kind of short sighted, in my opinion. Sam had already had Frank kill Lila by that point, who was pregnant with Sam's child... It's way more complicated than that one moment of Wes killing Sam to save Rebecca, as things had already been set into motion long before that. Besides, you could also blame Connor and co for not listening to Wes about what do to with the body, as they insisted on simply dumping it in the garbage when Wes (though Annalise's advice) had other plans, and it got discovered almost immediately. Had his body never been discovered so soon (or at all), who knows how things would've turned out.

Frank didn’t tell the Mahoney’s where AK would be so they could cause the car crash. Frank got played because he was mad that AK had yelled at him. He thought planting that bug would make her lose the case. He had no idea they’d try to kill her. That’s why he felt guilty about what he did..

I see your point about this going back to the Mahooney case. 

[Milaxx]

On 1/29/2019 at 6:23 PM, Hazel55 said:

I hope Miller ends up being innocent, despite whatever he clearly had going on with Gabriel-- simply because it would show Bonnie and Nate not to fly off the handle and kill someone on next to no evidence

I don’t think Miller is innocent. I think he’s being used by the Governor or the FBI, but I think his view of AK was poisoned by Denver who he doesn’t know was dirty. Willingly or unwillingly I think he did play a part in Senior’s murder.

I don’t completely fault Bonnie.  Unfortunately she’s always going to do whatever it takes to protect her “family”. Like it or not, Nate is part of that inner circle who must be protected at all cost.