S17.E02: Ann Coulter, Joshua Green, Dan Savage, Heather McGhee, Michael McFaul

[27bored]

I guess I’m in the minority but I don’t see the big deal in what Ann Coulter said. She pretty clearly said her support for a wall had nothing to do with race and everything to do with the effect illegal immigration has on Americans. I think time and again Bill treats Republican viewpoints as arbitrary because they’re easier to dismiss with a smirk that way. Just like when he brought up the “Mexico will pay for it” thing. Ann started explaining how that would be possible and what Trump meant — taxing remittances to Mexico over time would pay for the wall — and the audience started jeering her. 

People have been asking for years whether Ann “believes it” or not; I think some people tend to write off conservatives as hate-mongers so when they encounter one who is outspoken (like Bill), pugilistic (like Bill), and isn’t afraid to piss off their fans from time to time (like Bill), they take massive offense to it. 

[teebax]

22 hours ago, BigPaul25 said:

Want to be an adult Bill? Stop smoking pot and get married! *crickets*

WTF? You have to be married to be an adult now? TIL I'm a child. (eyeroll) 

Anyway, I agree with Bill about people who play so many video games life passes them by. I read a lot of advice columns, and I see letters about this all the time. 

I couldn't care less about comic books or superhero movies: not my thing. However, I feel bad for people trying to have adult relationships with people who are obsessed with gaming. I think that was Bill's point. 

[UYI]

6 hours ago, ganesh said:

So honestly, who thinks Bill and Coulter have had sex? I would guess at least once during his ABC show. You're all worldly people. You know even if you hooked up with someone, there's a way you interact. I don't fault Bill for it, but I think he's disingenuous about having her on the show. 

Honestly, no. I think their sexual tension would be dead the moment it happened. It's good for comic fodder, though.

(And frankly, it's better for my brain to think it's never happened. Blech.)

On 1/25/2019 at 11:44 PM, Robert Lynch said:

I was never a huge comic book fan. More of a funnies type guy with the typical Little Orphan Annie, Curtis, Winnie Winkle, and Peanuts story to keep me interested. I admit, I am still a gamer, but I was a late 80s-00s kid that grew with every arcade and game system I grew up with. I hope I am not guilty of that.

I'm someone who has NEVER had any real interest in comic books (like you, I preferred/prefer stuff like Peanuts and Garfield), and it makes me CRAZY to see how comic book/action hero movies have dominated the movies to detriment of basically every other genre out there, especially my favorite, romantic comedies. (I'll admit that I still need to see Crazy Rich Asians, though.) I have always had little to no interest in stuff like Star Wars and Harry Potter, and I do sometimes feel guilty about it and wish I could force myself to watch those movies/read those books and feel less lame and uncool. So in a weird way, there was a part of me that felt spoken to by Bill, even if my overall feeling is that bringing this up again was kind of pointless ans uncomfortable.

On 1/26/2019 at 12:40 AM, Pete Martell said:

Bill Maher has always been an idiot - the kind who passes himself off as smart and better than the rest. As often shown over the last 25 years of his career, those are the dumbest idiots of them all.

 

Serious question, Pete: Then why do you post here a lot? Were you a fan of his at one point and still feel some weird attachment to him? I promise I'm not trying to sound antagonistic, I'm just curious, because even among us here, we may have our issues with Bill, but many of us have watched him for years and have considered ourselves fans, so it's hard to just let go (although I've certainly considered it), and it sounds like you never liked him in the first place, but I've seen you post here a lot.

Again, you're great; I love your posts on The Conners/the soap boards, and I know deep down behind your cranky/crusty exterior, you're a sweetheart. I was just curious, and I hope you don't think less of me now for still having a soft spot for Bill. 

[sistermagpie]

7 hours ago, CaliCheeseSucks said:

Loved the New Rule. The more people rail at him for that opinion, the more it cements his thesis about their childish attachment. If you like what you like, what do you care if Bill Maher is mocking you for it? Especially since most people I hear complaining about his commentaries on the topic claim to loathe him. Since I was a kid, my tastes ran counter to my demo - preferring PBS costume dramas to Who's The Boss? doesn't exactly make you the most popular student in elementary school. Nevertheless, I stuck with my tastes because I don't care. The more people get riled up over Bill's remarks on the comic genre, the more I wonder if this is the first time they've heard criticism of that genre. 

But the same is true of Bill--why does he care? I'm not a big comics person myself, but I still feel compelled to talk back on the subject because he's just flat-out wrong in what he's describing. He just obviously doesn't relate to adults relating to any form of storytelling he doesn't consider adult (it's not just comics, it's also anything YA or fantasy or whatever) and it bugs him enough that he's done multiple scoldings about it.

[izabella]

9 hours ago, ganesh said:

I do work with people fairly younger than me (graduate students). I'm probably a little overly much, but I am clear on making sure women are referred to as 'women' or 'ladies' and insist on that from everyone. To say as a grown woman "girl" just diminishes everyone. 

It's actually a salient and insightful point that Coulter referred to herself in that way. I think this was directed on her part. As it was mentioned in this thread, based on the events of Friday, she just didn't have the time to prepare material. She was clearly floundering and trying to talk over Bill. That's not going to work on him and they both know that. 

It's also a way to avoid accountability.  "Oh, I'm just a stupid girl, I can't be expected to think or be held accountable for the hatred and lies I spread." 

And, as you said, it is diminishing, as well as insulting to girls and women.

Edited January 27, 2019 by izabella

[Pete Martell]

2 hours ago, UYI said:

Serious question, Pete: Then why do you post here a lot? Were you a fan of his at one point and still feel some weird attachment to him? I promise I'm not trying to sound antagonistic, I'm just curious, because even among us here, we may have our issues with Bill, but many of us have watched him for years and have considered ourselves fans, so it's hard to just let go (although I've certainly considered it), and it sounds like you never liked him in the first place, but I've seen you post here a lot.

Again, you're great; I love your posts on The Conners/the soap boards, and I know deep down behind your cranky/crusty exterior, you're a sweetheart. I was just curious, and I hope you don't think less of me now for still having a soft spot for Bill. 

I used to watch Politically Incorrect. I was never a fan, per se, but I didn't really mind him at the time as his show was seen as muckraking trash more than anything else. I have become more disdainful of him as the years passed as he has, somehow, become some kind of political voice. I have HBO (more because of my cable package than because of anything I enjoy on the channel these days) and once he started getting so much publicity and support for his toxic guests (like Milo, Ann, Erick Erickson, Ben Shapiro, etc.) I realized how influential a lot of his friends, allies, whatever he sees them as, are in part through his show. I figured I should keep up, or at least skim through sections, since these are, unfortunately, the types of people who now run this country. 

[UYI]

12 minutes ago, Pete Martell said:

I used to watch Politically Incorrect. I was never a fan, per se, but I didn't really mind him at the time as his show was seen as muckraking trash more than anything else. I have become more disdainful of him as the years passed as he has, somehow, become some kind of political voice. I have HBO (more because of my cable package than because of anything I enjoy on the channel these days) and once he started getting so much publicity and support for his toxic guests (like Milo, Ann, Erick Erickson, Ben Shapiro, etc.) I realized how influential a lot of his friends, allies, whatever he sees them as, are in part through his show. I figured I should keep up, or at least skim through sections, since these are, unfortunately, the types of people who now run this country. 

Gotcha, I hope I didn't sound too harsh. You're an awesome poster, always. :)

[iMonrey]

Quote

Bill's his own worst enemy. He has trouble framing an argument. The essence of the monologue was why 'adulting' is stupid. It is. When he talked about that, he was witty but truthful. Good solid comedy. No need to tie comics into it. 

That's a good point. There must be some underlying issue here because comic books seem like a silly thing to get so bent out of shape over. I suspect his real issue is with millennials and he's just making an association here. As others have pointed out there are plenty of adults into sports and games which are no better or worse than comic books. Geez, cranky old man much?

I watched maybe half of the Ann Coulter interview, and that was enough. She just flat-out lies. When Bill pointed out that most illegals in this country did not sneak over the border, they came here legally and overstayed their visas, she replied "That is simply not true." Well, it is true, and now you're just denying provable statistics. It's like "water is wet" and "no it isn't!" Well, what's the point of even talking to someone like that? Let alone giving them a platform? You're either a liar or woefully misinformed. 

Quote

Just like when he brought up the “Mexico will pay for it” thing. Ann started explaining how that would be possible and what Trump meant — taxing remittances to Mexico over time would pay for the wall — and the audience started jeering her. 

That's not what Trump said, ever. To pretend that's what he meant is a generosity Trump does not merit by any demonstration.

[Victor the Crab]

15 hours ago, Medicine Crow said:

I must say that Dan Savage's line:  (paraphrasing)  "I wish people would stop viewing "c*********" as an insult, but rather as a skill set."  THAT was funny; no matter what your persuasion.

Yes indeed it was funny. And unnerving at the same time.

10 hours ago, ganesh said:

So honestly, who thinks Bill and Coulter have had sex?

Bite your tongue!!! I can't even fathom the idea of those two having sex on their own, much less together.

[izabella]

26 minutes ago, Victor the Crab said:

Bite your tongue!!! I can't even fathom the idea of those two having sex on their own, much less together.

Same here.  Jeezus! 

I don't think I've ever seen Coulter standing.  I had no idea she was so narrow no matter what direction you look at her from.

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, teebax said:

However, I feel bad for people trying to have adult relationships with people who are obsessed with gaming. I think that was Bill's point. 

That's a fair point, but that's not really what he said. And that can be said about basically anything, drinking, smoking, porn. It speaks to one's addictive behavior and the means isn't really the issue. 

There are plenty of adults that read comics who have adult relationships or play games. Bill is conflating an important point - 'adulting' which we all agree is ridiculous and people who read comic books. It's a false equivalency. Do they need to grow up if you buy the Big Finish audio dramas of Doctor Who? Or even watch the show? It is a kids' show. What if you read Game of Thrones? What if you like to spend time talking about tv on an internet message board. These are things people just like to do and still manage to have functional adult relationships. 

 

1 hour ago, izabella said:

It's also a way to avoid accountability.  "Oh, I'm just a stupid girl, I can't be expected to think or be held accountable for the hatred and lies I spread." 

For sure. That's why I think it was directed. 

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

That's not what Trump said, ever. To pretend that's what he meant is a generosity Trump does not merit by any demonstration.

This is an interesting thing. She brushed off Trump's words as most of her ilk do - well that's not what he meant. No one thinks he has the 'best words.' No, no one thinks that. Where's the line though? Dismissing what the president actually said is disingenuous. Whoever the president is has to know or be told that you have to be careful with what you say. This was a while back, and I don't recall who it was, but there was a president who said 'if you like your doctor you can keep them.' He didn't mean that though right? 

 

I PAID MY TAXES LAST NIGHT #ADULTING

[Medicine Crow]

11 hours ago, ganesh said:

That's really it though. She's not saying anything we didn't think she'd say. And it's not like anyone is looking to her for fresh new conservative ideas. She's just that person who is droll and boorish and has something to say about everything on anything and conned enough people into giving her money. 

I do work with people fairly younger than me (graduate students). I'm probably a little overly much, but I am clear on making sure women are referred to as 'women' or 'ladies' and insist on that from everyone. To say as a grown woman "girl" just diminishes everyone. 

It's actually a salient and insightful point that Coulter referred to herself in that way. I think this was directed on her part. As it was mentioned in this thread, based on the events of Friday, she just didn't have the time to prepare material. She was clearly floundering and trying to talk over Bill. That's not going to work on him and they both know that. 

So honestly, who thinks Bill and Coulter have had sex? I would guess at least once during his ABC show. You're all worldly people. You know even if you hooked up with someone, there's a way you interact. I don't fault Bill for it, but I think he's disingenuous about having her on the show. 

I thought Bill talking about the role-playing they'd have during sex later was beneath contempt.  I have no doubt they have slept together at least once, but his reference was juvenile, at best!!!  (He's managing to chip away at what little respect I have for him.)

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

This is an interesting thing. She brushed off Trump's words as most of her ilk do - well that's not what he meant. No one thinks he has the 'best words.' No, no one thinks that. Where's the line though? Dismissing what the president actually said is disingenuous. Whoever the president is has to know or be told that you have to be careful with what you say. This was a while back, and I don't recall who it was, but there was a president who said 'if you like your doctor you can keep them.' He didn't mean that though right? 

Meanwhile she claims it's super important for him to actually build a wall because that part was a promise. Proving yet again that people just pick and choose with him and assume whatever they want is what he actually promised.

[Mibbitmaker]

The main thing about Bill's closing New Rules that's frustrating to me is the fact that he, like pretty much everybody else (even in the comic book culture itself), is believing the stereotypes of the medium that it's all superheroes for the nerd culture. There are comics and graphic novels referred to as "alternative", or "independent"  ("indie") that are just about any genre, including "slice of life". And there are many that really are literature. Companies like Fantagraphics and Top Shelf that specialize in such comics. Even self-published creators. Superheroes and the like I'm no fan of myself. They were irrelevant to me as a kid, and because of their dominance in the image of the medium (medium, not genre) I've grown to resent them.

Bill Maher is clearly unaware of this. He thinks of Howard the Duck as that dopey movie (I read the adaption - it was!), not the brilliant, of heavy-handed at times, satire is was in the original comics series. Marvel to me is pretty much Howard and Crazy magazine (1973-1982). And Bill thinks adding pictures immediately makes it merely a childrens' book. Words and pictures can be used in clever ways to push a narrative, not just fluff.  But he's largely a product of a culture that makes everyone think of comic books that way.  But he's also hypocritical as others here have said with all his pot smoking and such. Seems nobody ever told him about underground comix like The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers.

[ganesh]

I can't imagine something like From Hell could be considered a kids' book. 

Don't tell Bill about manga! He might have a heart attack!

[27bored]

Let us never forget who the real Ann Coulter is:

[ganesh]

Getting that reeedneck money and eating all the crabcakes. 

[The Mighty Peanut]

JFC Bill, people like watching heros and villains duke it out in the Marvel world precisely because we ARE functional real world adults the other 99% of the time. Does he not know the concept of escapist fantasy? Imagination? I am at best a fair weather fan in that if it's not Ironman or The Avengers feat Ironman I don't make a point to see it, but I still found Bill was insulting to Stan Lee's legacy of providing a small joy to a large population by saying "no disrespect to you Stan, I just hate your childish universe and anyone who follows it over the age of 10." He tries so hard to stay relevant and then goes on these epic curmudgeonly rants about whippersnappers with their silly hashtags and their comics. I remember an episode of The Cosby Show of all things where Cliff made fun of his colonoscopy video being viewable at "w w w dot flim flerm flip" and how it was still better than watching The Jets (god dammit Bill Cosby why did you taint all your work by being a scumbag serial rapist garbage human). Anyway it was the same thing, "look at these young people and their dumb ideas".

IMO he loves to puff out his chest and do his fuck you I don't care what you think routine, but with the house n-word gaff and the Ben Affleck controversy he is worried about consequences so he goes after....comic book geeks.

Also did anyone else notice how he condescended to the audience by saying they'd kiss the ass of whoever was on the panel, then kept looking up and waiting for applause during I Hate Millennials Edition 784?

He was the most annoying element of the show, and Ann Coulter was on so that's saying something.

Edited January 28, 2019 by The Mighty Peanut

[Milburn Stone]

I was far more bothered by the bit about Jewish penitentiaries than anything else in the show. On two levels. 1) The succession of Jewish stereotypes. 2) The strong implication throughout that Jews have disproportionate power to make things better for themselves at the expense of everyone else in the population. That feeds all the most hateful beliefs anti-Semites have about us. Just what we need, at a time when anti-Semitism is already on the rise.

[Choco9]

On 1/27/2019 at 8:10 AM, teebax said:

WTF? You have to be married to be an adult now? TIL I'm a child. (eyeroll) 

Anyway, I agree with Bill about people who play so many video games life passes them by. I read a lot of advice columns, and I see letters about this all the time. 

I couldn't care less about comic books or superhero movies: not my thing. However, I feel bad for people trying to have adult relationships with people who are obsessed with gaming. I think that was Bill's point. 

I agree with you on the first line. In fact, one could argue you are more of an adult if single and handling your business of life on your own.  Marriage does not make someone an adult (I say this as a married person who would have a much harder time "adulting" if I didn't have a second household income).

[DEL901]

On 1/26/2019 at 5:50 PM, Victor the Crab said:

...

I am no fan of Kevin Smith by any means. But I am damn impressed that he took the high road after Bill's nasty cheap shot at him last night.

Kevin's pretty cool.  When people were picketing his movie Dogma, he made himself a sign and joined them so he could talk to them and understand their POV.

[millennium]

I'm a comic book fan, always have been.   They're too expensive now even for a lot of adults to keep up with, let alone kids, so I'm sort of dormant in that regard.   But I still have every one I bought as a kid.

That said, I thought Bill's smackdown of comic book fanboys was hilarious and in Kevin Smith's case, well-deserved.  Maybe it's "adulting" to say something like this, but it's scary how so many people, especially younger generations, have stopped reading anything without pictures or more than 140 characters.  I would disagree with Bill only in the sense that people should read "big boy books" not because they reach a certain age, but because those books can impart wisdom and knowledge to anyone capable of reading them, at any age.

Funniest line: "I'm not glad Stan Lee is dead.   I'm sad that you're alive."

[Victor the Crab]

40 minutes ago, millennium said:

Funniest line: "I'm not glad Stan Lee is dead.   I'm sad that you're alive."

I'm sad he's stealing oxygen from everyone else.

How anybody can call themselves a comic book fan of any degree and think Bill's New Rules diarrhea from last Friday was spot on is mystifying. Bill's still going to smugly turn his nose up on anyone into comic books because nuance has always been a foreign word he has trouble grasping.

[millennium]

1 hour ago, Victor the Crab said:

I'm sad he's stealing oxygen from everyone else.

How anybody can call themselves a comic book fan of any degree and think Bill's New Rules diarrhea from last Friday was spot on is mystifying. Bill's still going to smugly turn his nose up on anyone into comic books because nuance has always been a foreign word he has trouble grasping.

Speaking for myself only, what Bill Maher thinks about my tastes or hobbies or whatever matters not one iota.   It does not diminish my enjoyment of them or make me feel bad in any way.

He's a comedian.   It's a bit.   I give it no more weight than if Don Rickles called me a hockey puck.

Maher is hardly the first to use comic book fans as a comedic foil.   Check out Triumph the Insult Comic Dog doing his routine outside Comic Con, riffing on people dressed up as Spiderman and Wolverine.   It's probably on youtube.  Really funny stuff.

I just think life's more fun when you can laugh at yourself.   There were elements of truth in Maher's screed, that's what made it funny. 

[ganesh]

He should have just focused on 'adulting' and left the comics out of it.