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S05.E11: Seeing Red

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During a battle with Cicada, Nora is severely injured. Due to Cicada's dampening powers, Nora's speed healing isn't working, leaving Barry and Iris scared for their daughter's future. Upset about his injured child, The Flash is filled with rage and confronts Cicada in a brutal battle. Meanwhile, Killer Frost keeps interfering with Caitlin's work on the cure.

Marcus Stokes directed the episode written by Judalina Neira & Thomas Pound.

Airdate: 1/21/2019

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Episode threads are for episode discussion.  They are not for comic discussion, spoilers, previews, or convincing posters that their opinions are wrong.  We have threads for comic and spoiler discussions.  If you wish to reference comics, previews, or spoilers, that's allowed but they must all be tagged as spoilers and they cannot move discussion from the episode itself.  Posts that fail to use the spoiler tag will be hidden and repeat offenders will be warned.

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Not a bad episode, better than last week anyway. But I can't believe that Barry didn't bother to cuff or restrain Cicada. He just walked off and let him go. The writers aren't even freaking trying any more. They could have had Cicada throw Barry off him when he was distracted by Nora's arrival.

I am glad that Sherloque is onto Nora and Thawne. I really liked the Iris/Sherloque confrontation. Good to see that Iris still has her investigative spidey sense even though she can't see Nora is scheming.  

Iris and Barry are still so good together. It is horrible that we are only getting seconds of them alone. 

The Flash has four metas and they can't stop Cicada. I don't even understand why Ralph went with them. He just stood there. At least, he helped get the metas in the helicopter.

Why would the feds provide metas with criminal records witness protection? More likely the feds would turn them over to ARGUS to get them off the streets. I am relieved that Peekaboo survived it all. 

I did enjoy David having a prominent role in the episode. 

On a shallow note, the new Flash suit is unattractive with horrible fabric. Every time Barry moves it stretches and not in a good way. They probably have to replace and/or repair it after each episode. They have got to improve it.

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There are dumbasses, there are idiots, and there's Team Flash.

Must we continue Team Flash being blithering idiots to keep Cicada around?  Just end the Cicada story, and move on to a different villain.  You've got Caitlin's father, and Thawne still out there.  At least Supergirl did this story a hell of a lot better, because Witwer's a better actor, and they've locked up Liberty.

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Question: if you see a helicopter in flight on an action-based show . . . it has to be attacked, right? First Gotham, now here. Well, at least the extraneous metas are put away . . . as opposed to last year, where DeVoe cherry-picked them for additional power. And now, a moment of silence for Bork. Bork could hurt you . . . but Cicada could hurt Bork, permanently.

Anyone else feeling Nora is still a bit . . . .young-minded at her age? Watching her panic at not being able to walk was also hard, though that I could understand. I don't consider her a "reckless youth," but I think she relies a little too much on her speed.

Hey, Snake got redeemed! Whatever.

Still not liking the Caitlin/Frost dynamic, though Frost's scenes with Ralph were pretty good.

Hey, Singh's still around! Good for him.

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Chris Klein's bad acting makes this Cicada story worse. Scrunching up his face doesn't make him look menacing just dumb and constipated. 

The writers have got to stop re-writing the Caitlin/Killer Frost story. Pick a lane and stay in it!

Edited by SimoneS
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After Caitlin recited Nora's injuries, I was waited for her to give the bad news.

The helicopter pilot couldn't come down a little lower? We've seen better extraction from old war movies.

If they were trying to make me feel sorry for Snake Eye, it didn't work.

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That's twice they had Cicada contained and they just let him get away.  I guess the incompetence of Team Flash was forgotten by the time they built the museum.

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They got more sympathy out of me for Snake Eye than I wanted to have, so credit to the actor. My favorite little touch was that Nora kept asking for her mom. She may be closer to Barry, but Iris is the one who raised her through every childhood sickness. Great job by Grant of looking absolutely devastated when Nora asked if the paralysis was permanent.

Dammit, Barry, you told Cicada that Nora's your daughter. Stop giving villains help!

No Joe and no Cisco? What are you doing to me, show? However, best use of Singh in years.  I was waiting for Cecile to hear that he totally knew about her and Barry.

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There is nothing, absolutely nothing, this show can do to make me give af about Killer Frost or Caitlin. Nothing. I scroll thru my phone in her scenes now and miss them entirely and I don't care. I am rapidly losing patience here.

With no Cisco and no Joe, I'm really dangling on the edge right now. Barry and Iris act like co-workers, not  a young married couple (when was the last time they even kissed?). Cecile is no replacement for Jesse Martin.

Chris Klein is very possibly the worst actor this show has ever seen, definitely for one of their villains. My god, is he bad. The Nora stuff is kinda interesting, but halfway through the season, it still feels like an idea that had more potential than something they've actually executed well. Of course we are in the mid-season doldrums where everything has to dragged out as long as possible, which is obviously what's going on with this Reverse Flash stuff. 

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12 hours ago, bettername2come said:

They got more sympathy out of me for Snake Eye than I wanted to have, so credit to the actor. 

They couldn't get me there. The Flash always wants to take shortcuts to redeem villains and superheroes alike, a sob story, a trite apology, and helping out the Team is all that it usually takes. I remember all the metas who Snake Eye helped sell into slavery and the others who were hurt in the process. It is the same with Harry and Snart. At least, I can rationalize that Turtle was a villain, but that security guard who Snart murdered was just making an honest living. I preferred Peek-a-Boo's unrepentant determination to survive by saving herself. Ironically, she is the villain who they should have worked to redeem, in part because she has a sympathetic backstory in the comics.

Knowing that they cast Sam Witwer on Supergirl makes me even more perplexed by the decision to cast Chris Klein as Cicada. 

Spoiler

They should have given Cicada his cult followers and have them help him keep escaping Team Flash. That would have been more believable that what they have written so far.

Edited by SimoneS
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First the mask, and now breaking one of the heroes' backs?  Cicada was just one "Ah, yes, I was wondering what would break first: your spirit or your body!" away from completely stealing Bane's schick!

Better than last week, but I swear, how many times did Cicada escape simply because someone takes him down with their powers, but instead of slapping cuffs, knocking the knife away, or, really, anything, the just stand there like morons?  It's almost like they know they're on a television show and they want to make sure they pose for the camera first.  For Beebo's sake, Team Flash!

Speaking of knowing their on a television show, I almost wish they just break the 4th wall and have Grant Gustin say "Look, guys!  Jesse L. Martin is still recovering, so just quit bringing up Joe!"  Next week, they'll say he's left Tibet, but stuck in customs or has a very long layover.

Singh is always welcomed, at least.  And I'm currently trying to comprehend Ralph actually being one of the best parts this season.  Weird.

Glad Sherloque is getting close to figuring Nora out, but I'm kind of hope it ends with both he and Eobard taking each other out.  And then for no explainable reason, Matt Letscher's version comes back.  Love you, Tom Cavanagh, but you are so in paycheck mode this season.

Boo to no Cisco.  Is Carlos Valdes busy with other stuff?

Candice Patton and Jessica Parker Kennedy were really great in their scenes tonight.

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9 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Barry and Iris act like co-workers, not  a young married couple (when was the last time they even kissed?). 

Seriously. Barry and Iris have been married maybe a year, six months of which Barry was in prison. They should still be in their honeymoon phase, even with Nora there. You would think we would see her walk in on her parents kissing or just having close moments even at Star Labs. It was a nice surprise just to see the loft tonight. 

Barry and Iris' relationship has carried this show at times and they have still have this amazing chemistry, but as usual the writers are wasting it instead of interweaving it into ongoing stories. We should have gotten at minimum gotten a scene with Barry and Iris comforting each other in the hallway. Goes to show that Helbing is only slightly better than Kreisberg.

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So has Grant finally gained weight or put on some muscle? Because he really looked filled out, or bulkier than any time I’ve seen him. 

I really wish they would make up their minds about KF and if she is a dark matter meta or a genetically manipulated meta. Frost should not have been affected by Cicadas dagger but seemed to. Then the whole thing with KF afraid Caitlin was going to off her with the cure. If she’s not dark matter meta than why worry? Of course Caitlin’s promise is going to boomerang right back at her near or in the final.

Another note, I really wish  the show would follow Supergirl’s idea and split the season in two with two main villains. This rambling on with one villain tends to become boring, make them all look stupid several times, and ask “why why why, is this villain still here”.

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29 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Seriously. Barry and Iris have been married maybe a year, six months of which Barry was in prison. They should still be in their honeymoon phase, even with Nora there. You would think we would see her walk in on her parents kissing or just having close moments even at Star Labs. It was a nice surprise just to see the loft tonight. 

Barry and Iris' relationship has carried this show at times and they have still have this amazing chemistry, but as usual the writers are wasting it instead of interweaving it into ongoing stories. We should have gotten at minimum gotten a scene with Barry and Iris comforting each other in the hallway. Goes to show that Helbing is only slightly better than Kreisberg.

They haven't written any fun moments for WestAllen as a couple this season. If anything Nora interrupted their honeymoon phase and made them both old before their time (that could be a plot of an episode, if the writers cared enough). It's absurd.

I also don't think Grant Gustin has ever gotten a handle on how to play a dad to an adult daughter. The Barry/Nora scenes this season don't feel as genuine as he has in the past with other actors- I think he just doesn't quite know exactly how to do it, tbh. You could say that's intentional, like he's not supposed to know how to act, but to me it's not been written that way. They're trying to make Barry the good, all knowing dad. I think he's uncomfortable with it.

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Why not transport the metas to the feds using the breaching device? So much easier, faster, and safer.

Actual eye contact between Iris and Caitlin while she was listing Nora's injuries- friendship goals!!

The smugness on Caitlin's face when she said Killer Frost was the weapon didn't last long after Cicada broke free and escaped; not much of a weapon. Why doesn't she train? Why doesn't she actually learn how to use her powers strategically? 

I see that Barry only retained Oliver's anger, but none of Oliver's fighting skills- ugh!

ETA- Seriously - you let him get away?!

Edited by adora721
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52 minutes ago, rtms77 said:

So has Grant finally gained weight or put on some muscle? Because he really looked filled out, or bulkier than any time I’ve seen him. 

I wondered the same, but physically he looked the same in the suit. I think that his face has matured, making him look his actual age rather than the boy he looked like just a couple years ago.

 

24 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

They haven't written any fun moments for WestAllen as a couple this season. If anything Nora interrupted their honeymoon phase and made them both old before their time (that could be a plot of an episode, if the writers cared enough). It's absurd.

I also don't think Grant Gustin has ever gotten a handle on how to play a dad to an adult daughter. The Barry/Nora scenes this season don't feel as genuine as he has in the past with other actors- I think he just doesn't quite know exactly how to do it, tbh. You could say that's intentional, like he's not supposed to know how to act, but to me it's not been written that way. They're trying to make Barry the good, all knowing dad. I think he's uncomfortable with it.

I think Grant is doing okay as is Candice. The story is just a hard sell. Barry and Iris parenting an adult child who behaves like a petulant teenager is ridiculous, getting to know her and supporting her would be more believable. I have said this several times, but it is difficult to believe that Barry and Iris and no one on Team Flash is concerned about Nora messing with the timeline. 

Edited by SimoneS
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51 minutes ago, rtms77 said:

If she’s not dark matter meta than why worry? Of course Caitlin’s promise is going to boomerang right back at her near or in the final.

Recall that KF destroyed the dark matter cure Cisco was working on last week; this cure would not have affected KF. However, Caitlin and Cisco are now working on a cure based on DNA; a DNA cure would affect KF.

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Damn, I think this is the most David has gotten to do since he was struck by lightning in that alternate timeline! I guess with Joe off in Tibet, they had to have someone as the cop who does cop stuff, so if there is at least a little bit of an upside to Jessie being MIA, at least we get more of David! 

Better episode than last week, even though, oh my God, there is middle ground between killing someone, and letting them just wander off! Especially when they happen to be a serial killer with a grudge against you! I give Barry a bit more of a pass than usual, as Cicada got away while he was distracted by Nora showing up, but this is just a pattern, and its super annoying. You dont have to kill them, just get power cuffs on them or knock them out and take them to jail! So something

Well at least this group of metas didnt end up like the batch that Barry and the gang tried to save last year (IE all dead except the one they brought back to life), and it was fun seeing Snake Eyed lackey guy and Peek A Boo again. This show is super lax on their redemptions, but the actor playing Snake Eye was actually pretty good, and its nice that they were trying just as hard to save the ex cons as they would anyone else. It wasn't played off as "well they were bad guys, so its not such a big deal" at any time, and with Barry's tendency to let his villains skip off hunky dory, that would look pretty bad. 

Grant and Candace did great with the scene where Nora was in the hospital, they both looked like they were trying to project strength and were failing miserably. And Nora calling out for her mom was a nice touch as well, as I am sure that Iris was there for every skinned knee every time. 

Sherloque is finally earning that paycheck and getting closer to busting Nora! Hurry up, I am so ready for this to be out in the open. 

What is Chris Klein doing at this point? His acting choices are just so weird now, and not even in a fun way. I wish they would be open to having two arcs per season, or have a couple different villains throughout to spice things up.

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  1. The real comedy in this show is Danielle Panabaker's acting. Just laughable.
  2. Team Flash continues to be the dumbest lot of superheroes- what exactly is the issue with killing/restraining a mass murderer again?
  3. I need more Westallen intimate moments- thats the reason I watch this show 
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What happened to the fun loving show that drew me in with "lightning gave me abs?"  Sigh, the show just doubles down on being dark and broody.  And having half the characters keep secrets from the other half for no real reason other than to build drama.

I'm with Sherloque on this one.  Nora is collaborating with Eobard Thawne.  Maybe he's turned good, maybe he's still evil.  But this feels like something Nora should tell her parents, 1 of which is Thawne's archenemy.

Agreed with the poster above who thought it was ridiculous that twice in a single episode, they had Cicada beaten, then the heroes decided to wander off to deal with personal stuff, and then  Cicada got away.

Also agreed that the helicopter scene was contrived, though it got Ralph acting heroic so there's that.  But why couldn't Flash speed the metas off to some hidden location?  Though really 95% of the plotholes on the show could be solved with "Barry does something really fast before someone else has a chance to react".

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So the most intriguing thing about Cicada is this meta-hating doctor that’s actively helping him murder people, but somehow I know the show is not going to explore that.

I missed Cisco. This is the second episode where he’s been completely absent, and I don’t like it. Especially because we have irrelevant Sherloque taking up space with an arc that could literally go to anyone else. I wish they had skipped doing another Wells this season, and just bring in Cavanagh as Eobard, if they insist on bringing him back.

The excuses for why [Character X] isn’t present are starting to get silly. Still missing Joe.

Not that I wanted to see Nora injured, but since they did, they could have let her be immobilized for a little while longer. It was a little ridiculous (even by Flash standards) that she was speeding around in her suit by the end of the episode. However, I did like Iris/Nora and West-Allen family scenes; both the heartbreaking ones, and the adorable ones.

Yay! A Captain Singh sighting! Loved seeing Cecile and her job involved in the A-plot. We even got rare Cecile/Barry scenes.

Cool seeing Norvok and Peekaboo again. So they got protection for the known, free, criminal metahumans, but there’s more out there, right? It’d be a welcome change to come across a few that aren’t bad guys.

Why didn’t Sherloque just tell Iris about his concerns? Loved Iris in Protective Mama mode; but she could have pressed Sherloque for more about why he was investigating Nora. I hope this comes up later.

How many times has Team Flash battled Cicada and lost? They’ve made tiny progress, but I need to see them have a better plan or let them win for once.

I wish it had been Iris to talk down Barry. Or even Ralph or Caitlin. They could have easily let Nora sit this one out, since being paralyzed was her story this week.  Wish we had a a little bit more with the West-Allens.

The loft! It’s been so long! With a family scene and a WestAllen scene too. And Oh, look; they finally remembered this season’s parallel with the villain.

So adoarble:

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So if series regulars like Cisco, Ralph, and Cecile can be missing for whole episodes, when is Caitlin's turn?

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4 hours ago, Trini said:

How many times has Team Flash battled Cicada and lost? They’ve made tiny progress, but I need to see them have a better plan or let them win for once.

They had a fantastic plan the first time - Ralph stunned him with his gun and KF pinned him to the wall with her ice blasts.  Then they screwed it up because apparently only Caitlin could tell them that an injured woman should be taken to a hospital (I guess that's one of the things they only tell you in med school).  They're just lucky Cicada channeled his inner Zoom and punched Nora in the back instead of just getting stabby.

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On 1/22/2019 at 11:23 PM, ruby24 said:

They haven't written any fun moments for WestAllen as a couple this season. If anything Nora interrupted their honeymoon phase and made them both old before their time (that could be a plot of an episode, if the writers cared enough). It's absurd.

I thought that the Ragdoll episode was one of the best of the season. It worked on all levels. The writers adeptly interwove WestAllen' loving relationship even with the Nora drama into the main villain of the week. We got Barry as a loving husband determined to support a hurt Iris. Hell, they even got a romantic moment along with heroic ones for both Iris and Barry. This episode tells me that that the show can bring it when it makes the effort, it simply does seem able to do so in more than one or two episodes per season now.   

Talking about Ragdoll, I thought he was a wonderfully creepy villain. It is too bad that he didn't escape Ralph. I would have loved if the show had given him a three episode arc, if only to give us a break from Cicada.

 

On 1/23/2019 at 2:39 AM, Trini said:

Why didn’t Sherloque just tell Iris about his concerns? Loved Iris in Protective Mama mode; but she could have pressed Sherloque for more about why he was investigating Nora. I hope this comes up later.

Well, they have to drag out the big reveal about Thawne. Ha. But to be fair, I don't think that either Iris or Barry are in a place where they could even begin to consider that Nora is deceiving them. They are too caught up in the loving family bonding moment. They just can't see that something is definitely off with Nora. This is why I thought that they were going to have Cisco share Sherloque's suspicions about Nora when he saw the time symbol language. 

Edited by SimoneS
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10 hours ago, Rose Red said:

The real comedy in this show is Danielle Panabaker's acting. Just laughable.

Thank you! I think she is a terrible actress, especially as KF. 

 

8 hours ago, Trini said:

Why didn’t Sherloque just tell Iris about his concerns?

Would she have listened?

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10 hours ago, Trini said:

They’ve made tiny progress, but I need to see them have a better plan or let them win for once.

Credit where credit's due, at least KF got the blood sample from Cicada. Don't say I've never given her a compliment. 

ETA: How is it that Caitlin could tell KF to duck when Cicada's dagger was behind KF? I thought Caitlin and KF don't know what the other does?  As evidence, Caitlin didn't know about KF having Cicada's blood sample or the fact that KF got her a new board. 

Edited by adora721
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14 hours ago, Rose Red said:
  1. The real comedy in this show is Danielle Panabaker's acting. Just laughable.

 

3 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

Thank you! I think she is a terrible actress, especially as KF. 

The comments about Danielle Panabaker's terrible acting crack me up. It is such a given to me that I don't even bother to comment on it. I just roll my eyes during most of her scenes. Other than Black Lightning, I think The Flash has the most overall talented cast on the whole CW so I just figure her lack of acting talent is the bad that we tolerate so we can enjoy the good. 

Edited by SimoneS
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4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Well, they have to drag out the big reveal about Thawne. Ha. But to be fair, I don't think that either Iris or Barry are in a place where they could even begin to consider that Nora is deceiving them. They are too caught up in the loving family bonding moment. They just can't see that something is definitely off with Nora. This is why I thought that they were going to have Cisco share Sherloque's about Nora when he saw the time symbol language. 

3 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

Would she have listened?

Maybe?? I was just annoyed that she asked him a straight question and he didn't actually answer. I know he doesn't actually know anything solid yet, but he does have some evidence, and everyone knows she's lied and done stupid stuff before, so it might be worth a shot.

But the bigger issue is that Sherloque has this subplot by himself just to keep him relevant. And it's been stretched out way too long. If he won't go to Nora's parents (understandable), he could be sharing his suspicions with Cisco and/or Ralph. 

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15 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I think Grant is doing okay as is Candice. The story is just a hard sell. Barry and Iris parenting an adult child who behaves like a petulant teenager is ridiculous, getting to know her and supporting her would be more believable. I have said this several times, but it is difficult to believe that Barry and Iris and no one on Team Flash is concerned about Nora messing with the timeline. 

This is pretty much why every WestAllen family scene falls flat for me. Nora is somewhat close to the age that Barry and Iris currently are, but she acts like a petulant teenager. It just is not working for me. I want Nora gone, but I know that will not happen anytime soon. I also, would like TeamFlash or really anyone at this point to be more concerned about messing up the timeline. It was only brought up in one of the earlier episodes, but then dropped.

Wait Sam Witwer was/is on Supergirl? I must watch Supergirl now.

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1 minute ago, Misslindsey said:

Wait Sam Witwer was/is on Supergirl? I must watch Supergirl now.

Another Sam Witwer fan! He is so freaking talented. Just thinking about his portrayal of Aiden on Being Human puts a huge smile on my face. Too bad he wasn't cast as Cicada. 

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8 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Another Sam Witwer fan!

Another Sam Witwer fan here from his "Smallville" days as Davis Bloome ("Doomsday"). That was my first introduction to his work; he made me feel compassion for an otherwise awful character. I met him at DragonCon in 2011. His charm is out of this world! He almost Jedi-mind tricked me into watching "Being Human", but I hate the occult and horror, so no joy on that.  He would have been a great Cicada.

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4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

 

The comments about Danielle Panabaker's terrible acting crack me up. It is such a given to me that I don't even bother to comment on it. I just roll my eyes during most of her scenes. Other than Black Lightning, I think The Flash has the most overall talented cast on the whole CW so I just figure her lack of acting talent is the bad that we tolerate so we can enjoy the good. 

For me, it affects my ability to enjoy the show. Maybe if she was a minor character i could overlook it but shes literally always there and I cant take anything she says seriously which means i cant get invested in any story line that involves her

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Barry could have  at least knocked Cicada unconscious before he went to Nora.  

I thought Barry still looking troubled at the end would lead to him suggesting Nora go back to her own time.  It still makes no sense to me that no one has brought it up again.

I wonder why did Cicada look extra angry after flipping to Nora's pics at the end of the show.  Her timely entrance allowed him to go free.  Unless the intent of him injuring her earlier was to put an end to XS without killing her and seeing her up and running just added more fuel to his rage.

I am getting tired of Cicada popping up every few episodes especially with all the plot contrivances that happened in this episode. 

Edited by miasth
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18 minutes ago, miasth said:

I wonder why did Cicada look extra angry after flipping to Nora's pics at the end of the show.  Her timely entrance allowed him to go free.  Unless the intent of him injuring her earlier was to put an end to XS without killing her and seeing her up and running just added more fuel to his rage.

Nora's most likely his next target -- even though he already attacked her this episode. ::shrug::

Although, it might be interesting if Cicada changed tactics, instead of our heroes.

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16 hours ago, Trini said:

So if series regulars like Cisco, Ralph, and Cecile can be missing for whole episodes, when is Caitlin's turn?

Hopefully, she misses an episode. When Cisco wasn't in 5x04, I was glad. I thought it was time for Cisco and Caitlin to miss episodes. I don't want to be that person, but I'm starting to think Danielle may have got favors for her contract.

Killer Frost's echo voice was way too much in this episode. It was irritating.

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I forgot Cicada's scrapbooking. Good to know that he has a hobby to keep him busy during his villain downtime. I can't see him successfully killing Nora.

About the actors who have missed episodes. Their contracts would require that they appear on the show which typically uses them in every episode. However, the showrunners will accommodate actors' other projects or personal issues.

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I was rooting for Barry to kill Cicada.

The meta transfer took up too much screen time and I didn't care one bit about Snake Guy's backstory. As soon as officer Jones showed up, I knew he was the one snitching to Cicada because of what Spyn did to him. I liked the scenes with Cecile and David. It's nice to see characters doing their jobs. I'll be disappointed if this show doesn't end with David revealing that he has known about Flash and his friends all along.

I liked the moment with Barry and Iris at Nora's bedside but I still feel like Iris is being treated as an outsider in her own family. Barry/Nora are clearly the main focus and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, especially now that Iris and Nora are on good terms. I think this is why I don't feel these family scenes. Iris is just there to talk them up. The fact that WestAllen haven't had a romantic/emotional moment since 5x05 doesn't help.

 

11 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Hopefully, she misses an episode. When Cisco wasn't in 5x04, I was glad. I thought it was time for Cisco and Caitlin to miss episodes. I don't want to be that person, but I'm starting to think Danielle may have got favors for her contract.

We can be "bad" people together because I also think she has BTS clout. She's in every crossover, even when her character could be replaced by anyone else.  Her story is full of holes and gets retconned all the time but it doesn't matter because it is giving her loads of screen time. She gets characters supporting her. She's the only one that gets randomly inserted into West-Allen family scenes.

The cure shouldn't affect KF. I really don't understand what this drama is all about. Even worse, I was upset with Cisco's characterization in the last episode and he's conveniently missing from this one.

 

On 23/1/2019 at 5:47 AM, adora721 said:

Recall that KF destroyed the dark matter cure Cisco was working on last week; this cure would not have affected KF. However, Caitlin and Cisco are now working on a cure based on DNA; a DNA cure would affect KF.

I don't know what Cisco is doing but she's working on a cure based on dark matter. She's got a DNA sample from a dark matter meta. She intended to isolate the genetic marker that bonds human DNA to dark matter to reverse-engineer the process. I don't get the purpose of any of this. More screen time/story to DP is the only explanation.

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11 hours ago, Starry said:

I don't know what Cisco is doing but she's working on a cure based on dark matter. She's got a DNA sample from a dark matter meta. She intended to isolate the genetic marker that bonds human DNA to dark matter to reverse-engineer the process. I don't get the purpose of any of this. More screen time/story to DP is the only explanation.

OK; please forgive my confusion, but here's how I understood it:

  1. Cisco's first cure (the dark matter cure) works by removing dark matter from metas; he realized that's what Cicada's dagger was doing. The dagger doesn't alter meta DNA; it only removes the dark matter from the metas. This wouldn't have affected KF since she has no dark matter in her body. That "fact" was established in S4's retcon of KF's origin. Therefore, there was no reason for KF to fear that cure since it doesn't mess with DNA, it only  removes dark matter. Recall that the dark matter changes human DNA into meta DNA. This was established in S1.
  2. The current cure being worked on by Cisco and Caitlin is about changing meta DNA back to normal human DNA; this would affect KF. Recall that Caitlin tells Cisco in Icicle's lair that her dad created a meta gene. So, my understanding is that they are both looking for a way to undo meta genes. This cure would affect KF. Caitlin is coming at the problem from her own angle of uncoupling DNA and dark matter, which would still not affect KF (plot hole?).  I suspect Cisco is working to return meta DNA to human DNA from another angle using Icicle's research.
  3. Alternatively, the writers have messed up yet again and made something even more confusing than it already was.
Edited by adora721
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This episode lost me when Cicada- whose sole purpose in life is killing metas- punched rather than stabbed Nora. I zoned out for most of the episode after that.

Started paying attention again around the big final fight...just in time for Barry to have a moment with Nora while Cicada escapes. I mean, Barry has super speed and could have taken the briefly subdued Cicada to a cell in Star Labs before returning to have his moment with Nora and it would have taken the blink of an eye.

I try really hard to not think too much about these plot holes, but this episode was just lazy. 

Edited by Jenniferbug
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8 hours ago, Starry said:

We can be "bad" people together because I also think she has BTS clout. She's in every crossover, even when her character could be replaced by anyone else.  Her story is full of holes and gets retconned all the time but it doesn't matter because it is giving her loads of screen time. She gets characters supporting her. She's the only one that gets randomly inserted into West-Allen family scenes.

I am responding to this on the Lightning Rod thread.

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I feel like Team Flash has  given up on even pretending to catch the Big Bad until it is time to catch them. I am sure Barry wanting to do everything in his power to stop Cicada will be blamed on Oliver and his "darkness" too. Let Barry mature into a decisive superhero who sometimes gets angry show. 

It was awesome to see Iris catching on what Sherloque was doing. I think she too sees something is off but she just got her future daughter to trust her plus her daughter is hurt. So, I understand why she went all mama bear on Sherloque. 

Like others have said, Iris and Barry act like co-workers because none of these writers know how to write for a young couple who are in love. I don't want them making out all the time but like give us glimpses of them behaving like a young married couple who are in the first years of their relationship. They are so busy maturing Barry and Iris that they have turned them into an old married couple complete with an older daughter.

As for Caitlin and her constant changing backstories. I don't care. Her and her normalized split personality don't do it for me. So, I just ff her scenes. 

I missed Cisco. 

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Nooooo! Not Bork!

I guess this means we'll never get that Power Company spinoff now. :(

(For reals, though, I loved that comic.)

ETA: Boy, the "Sun Dollar" looks an awful lot like Jitters would if you took out the tables and put a pool table in the middle... lol

ETA2: First, I am soooo tired of Team Flash not making sure the villains are incapacitated before they get distracted and wander off or start having trite discussions while the bad guy slips away. It seems to be a constant on this show, and in particular with this idiot of a villain.

Second, I get that they've only got an hour (less, really) for each episode, and so only have limited time to tell the stories and get the drama they want, but if they really want us to feel some kind of sympathy for a character such as Nora- who gets crippled and is afraid they may never walk again, for example- then at least have a couple of days of in-show time pass? Please? Because all the crying and boo-hoo drama between her and the other characters, and it driving Barry into a near-murderous (and out of character) rage doesn't really fly when Nora is back up and running again in literally hours. The characters haven't even had time to change their day wear for chrissakes.

Edited by Cthulhudrew
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On 1/22/2019 at 9:49 PM, Rose Red said:
  1. The real comedy in this show is Danielle Panabaker's acting. Just laughable.

This just got me wanting an entire episode of DP and CK squaring off as Killer Frost and Cicada. Oh, it would be the stuff of MST3K and drinking games.

On 1/23/2019 at 4:27 PM, Trini said:

Nora's most likely his next target -- even though he already attacked her this episode. ::shrug::

Although, it might be interesting if Cicada changed tactics, instead of our heroes.

I think it was supposed to be a parallel to Barry's "We'll save his daughter!" He either deduced that she is Barry's daughter, or heard Barry say "you'll never hurt my daughter again" and decided that that's how he'll finally get the Flash off his back and get his revenge against all metas.

I mean, it's clearly written on the very nuanced smirking of Chris Klein's face at the end there. So subtle, so deep, so... okay, I had to read into things myself. lol

Edited by Cthulhudrew
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On 1/23/2019 at 11:31 AM, SimoneS said:

 

The comments about Danielle Panabaker's terrible acting crack me up. It is such a given to me that I don't even bother to comment on it. I just roll my eyes during most of her scenes. Other than Black Lightning, I think The Flash has the most overall talented cast on the whole CW so I just figure her lack of acting talent is the bad that we tolerate so we can enjoy the good. 

 

Danielle Panabaker has moments when I think she acts really well.

She absolutely nails Caitlin's friendship/bonding moments with Cisco, and she has a knack for spouting medical and techno babble. She has talent, but Panabaker makes a lot of acting choices that don't work because she doesn't know how to rise above the fair to middling material like other actors on the show often have. That's why her weak performances can be glaring by comparison.

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8 hours ago, steelyis said:

 

Danielle Panabaker has moments when I think she acts really well.

She absolutely nails Caitlin's friendship/bonding moments with Cisco, and she has a knack for spouting medical and techno babble. She has talent, but Panabaker makes a lot of acting choices that don't work because she doesn't know how to rise above the fair to middling material like other actors on the show often have. That's why her weak performances can be glaring by comparison.

Yeah, she is one of those actors who needs the writing to be good. I don't blame her, I also need the writing to get better because I want to keep watching this show for Iris/Joe/Barry, but it's getting harder and harder to do.

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Who decided Cicada was a good name for a villain anyway? I mean, if you're going to name your bad guy after an insect I can easily come up with some that sound scarier or more menacing. https://www.momtastic.com/webecoist/2010/03/02/sounds-dangerous-10-insects-with-scary-names/

It's not helped by the actor. Half the time Chris Klein seems like he's asleep and someone pokes him to get him to recite his lines. The rest of the time it's as if he ate something that didn't agree with him and looks ready to throw up as he tries to be menacing.

I agree with everyone who said it was so stupid how they kept letting Cicada get away. Then again, Barry let Thawne walk so at least he's consistent.

Jessica Parker Kennedy really sold the fear of being paralyzed. I felt for her. I haven't been too thrilled with the character as a whole, I didn't think the show really needed another speedster, but she's growing on me.

Sherloque...come on Tom. I know you must have some pretty significant blackmail on the producers to keep yourself on the show, but please stop with the accents already. I know you're a better actor than this.

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9 minutes ago, KirkB said:

Who decided Cicada was a good name for a villain anyway? I mean, if you're going to name your bad guy after an insect I can easily come up with some that sound scarier or more menacing. https://www.momtastic.com/webecoist/2010/03/02/sounds-dangerous-10-insects-with-scary-names/

The name is based on a villain from Geoff Johns' run on The Flash. I will admit that the TV version isn't as well-developed. I mean, this Cicada doesn't "pwn" Team Flash every single episode like friggin' DeVoe, but I can see how the character can grate.

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19 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

The name is based on a villain from Geoff Johns' run on The Flash. I will admit that the TV version isn't as well-developed. I mean, this Cicada doesn't "pwn" Team Flash every single episode like friggin' DeVoe, but I can see how the character can grate.

I think they heard the complaints about last season, so it's every other episode, but it's still the same problem of the Team losing until the finale. It'd be good if the show could take a break from Cicada for a few episodes in a row.

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