S01.E12: The Day Before...

[HazelEyes4325]

Just now, Dani said:

The last part doesn’t bother me because the police will try to notify next of kin in person if it is possible. When my father died suddenly it took two hours for the police to show up at my door. Gary could have just beat the police to Delilah. 

I'm very sorry about your father.

I didn't realize that the police try to do that in person (although that is how it is always done on TV, so...), but that makes sense.  Okay, I'm going to quit worrying about this plot point,  I'm sure that if I look really, really, really hard, I can find something else to nitpick.  ;-D

[nexxie]

So is Barbara a college friend that Jon somehow hurt due to drinking? Thinking about his reference to a bottle in apt.

[possibilities]

On 1/25/2019 at 2:32 PM, Gothish520 said:

it appears Jon just completely blew off Delilah without a word, at least not until much later.

He knew she was having an affair. He probably had some resentment about that and didn't feel super-obligated to be there at that point. I think of it as him thinking it was more important for him to provide financially and get out of the way, so he was plotting his death and not plotting to save the marriage. It doesn't explain why she's in financial trouble, though, so that's the part that's confusing to me. Him not being emotionally present doesn't really seem hard to understand. If she loved him, he figures she'd be trying to save the marriage, not having an affair. So fuck the dinner date, you know? Also, when you are getting ready to kill yourself, it's typical to distance from the people you're closest to. She said they had to talk. He didn't want to talk. He did show up later, but walked away when he saw her with Eddie. He probably figured it was too late. Suicidal people are not known for making the same choices people make when they're planning to keep living.

I liked Rome's story. We see that he's at the top of his game, everything is great. But he's not feeling it. This is a little different than what we were told before, though, which is that he hated his job and it was killing him. So that seemed like a bit of a retcon. Was he depressed because he's just depressed (a chemical issue) or was he depressed because his life is shit (a situational problem)? Quitting his job was supposed to help, but in this episode we see he seemed to be liking his job, and the depression came after that, which he then blamed on the job. This also makes sense in its not making sense-- disordered or confused thinking and bad decisions are also part of depression or certainly bipolar (if, as some people think he's actually bipolar, not simply depressed).

I would like the show a lot more if it wasn't milking the mystery format. Just fucking tell us what is going on. I really hate the storytelling device more than the story itself, I think.

I thought Maggie moved to Boston to die, and wanted to do it without her family knowing. Thus, not wanting to unpack, etc. But seeing her sound like she was making appointments to do chemo before her dad showed up made that really confusing. She packed up again when he left, so clearly she does not plan to stick around. Maybe her Friday at 1 appts weren't for chemo. Maybe they were for something else. At the same time, if she's planning to die, why keep all her stuff? Why not get rid of it, instead of just putting it into storage?

Ashley withholding things from Delilah did not seem to be Jon's intention. And her thinking she's trying to protect them by doing so also doesn't make sense, especially since it led to Delilah and Regina both being blindsided by financial ruin. So I'm not liking Ashley right now.

On 1/25/2019 at 7:16 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I would watch a show with just Theo and Colin being awesome.

Me too!!

I am truly shocked that Eddie hadn't given any thought to what the plan was for Theo, or even what he was going to TELL him. He's been shown to be a great dad since then, but in the run up to the divorce, it looks like he and Delilah were planning to just run away together and leave the kids with their exes, who they both knew were hardly ever home?? Teenagers have more forethought than that.

The business with the smoke alarm was nuts. I wonder if they were trying to hint that some of Delilah's helplessness and passivity is because Jon wanted her that way. It's way more dangerous to not have a working smoke detector than it is to get on a stool and change the battery, but he objected to her taking charge of that task. C'mon-- that's actually borderline abusive. He was angry at her for even minimal adult functioning. Hmmmn....

On 1/26/2019 at 7:55 AM, alexvillage said:

Nitpick of the episode: When Delilah was checking the smoke alarm Jon said that it was "dangerous". Really? The thing wasn't even all the way up on the ceiling. She stood on a stool. If that is dangerous I might be some sort of superhero going all the way up a ladder - and being afraid of heights - to change the batteries of smoke alarms. Not to mention when I had to walk on the roof!

Edited January 27, 2019 by possibilities

[izabella]

11 minutes ago, possibilities said:

It's way more dangerous to not have a working smoke detector than it is to get on a stool and change the battery,

I think he was saying it's dangerous to take the battery out of the smoke alarm so it stops beeping, which is what Delilah was doing.  Once you make it stop beeping, it's really easy in a busy household to forget to replace the batteries.   I think smoke alarms are still functional even though they're beeping because the battery is low.

Edited January 27, 2019 by izabella

[Madding crowd]

Most people aren’t going to just let an alarm beep all night , they wouldn’t be able to sleep. If you can’t get it to reset and can’t immediately get batteries, I don’t know what else you can do. Not sure why they showed that-it was nice of Jon to get the battery, but they are still being foresclosed on. 

[HazelEyes4325]

24 minutes ago, possibilities said:

He knew she was having an affair. He probably had some resentment about that and didn't feel super-obligated to be there at that point. I think of it as him thinking it was more important for him to provide financially and get out of the way, so he was plotting his death and not plotting to save the marriage. It doesn't explain why she's in financial trouble, though, so that's the part that's confusing to me. Him not being emotionally present doesn't really seem hard to understand. If she loved him, he figures she'd be trying to save the marriage, not having an affair. So fuck the dinner date, you know? Also, when you are getting ready to kill yourself, it's typical to distance from the people you're closest to. She said they had to talk. He didn't want to talk. He did show up later, but walked away when he saw her with Eddie. He probably figured it was too late. Suicidal people are not known for making the same choices people make when they're planning to keep living.

 

1

The way I saw it, Jon didn't know Delilah was having an affair until he showed up at the restaurant and saw Eddie.  He didn't see the traffic ticket, he just told Ashley to pay it.  He did seem sorry about forgetting about the dinner (until he got there).  Also, something about the scene of him right before he jumped made me think it was more of an impulsive decision than I had previously thought.

The more I think about it, the more I think that the affair was why he killed himself and that it wasn't a thought-out plan (which is what I had thought before this episode).  As I said, they made a point of showing he went to a *pharmacy* to buy batteries, and that isn't where someone normally goes to buy things like that unless they are going for another reason.  I think I'm now on board with the theory that Jon was dying, knew he was running out of time, and all the financial stuff was an attempt to secure a financial future for Delilah, and the affair was what led him to suicide, but not death, so to speak.

[possibilities]

He knew about the affair because he had found Eddie's necklace, I thought? And it sure looked to me like he had all the suicide things planned out. He had spent the entire day getting his paperwork in order and finishing up unfinished business.

22 minutes ago, izabella said:

I think he was saying it's dangerous to take the battery out of the smoke alarm so it stops beeping, which is what Delilah was doing.  Once you make it stop beeping, it's really easy in a busy household to forget to replace the batteries.   I think smoke alarms are still functional even though they're beeping because the battery is low.

I totally missed that! I always keep batteries around for when the detector batteries die, though, so the whole thing was kind of weird for me.

[HazelEyes4325]

Just now, possibilities said:

He knew about the affair because he had found Eddie's necklace, I thought? And it sure looked to me like he had all the suicide things planned out. He had spent the entire day getting his paperwork in order and finishing up unfinished business.

I totally missed that! I always keep batteries around for when the detector batteries die, though, so the whole thing was kind of weird for me.

Did they even address the necklace in this episode?  I can't even remember,  I know it came up in episode two and it was in the "previously on..." thing, but I don't remember it here.  

Yeah, he was getting things in order, but that doesn't necessarily mean suicide.  If he was actually sick, it could just be he was getting ready for his inevitable, not impending, death.  I have more to say on this, but it involves something Nash said in an interview, so I'll move it to the spoiler thread.

[debraran]

7 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Did they even address the necklace in this episode?  I can't even remember,  I know it came up in episode two and it was in the "previously on..." thing, but I don't remember it here.  

Yeah, he was getting things in order, but that doesn't necessarily mean suicide.  If he was actually sick, it could just be he was getting ready for his inevitable, not impending, death.  I have more to say on this, but it involves something Nash said in an interview, so I'll move it to the spoiler thread.

I think the necklace being Eddies was a pretty big clue, they were going nuts trying to find it, she was looking around bed, he went to hotel room, Deliah found it. As a recap said :

the yin-yang necklace Eddie wears all the time is missing. The good news? Delilah finds it. The bad news? She finds it in Jon’s bedside table, which she reads as a clear indication that he knew she and Eddie were sleeping together.

I don't think Jon was sick, money and other things had to do with it, but if he was sick, he'd say he was dying. I doubt he'd throw himself off a balcony because he had cancer, that would be covered under insurance the way suicide isn't for some period of time. He keeps saying, "I'm not the guy you think I am" which I think means he feels like he failed and was duplicitous but time will tell.

Edited January 27, 2019 by debraran

[HazelEyes4325]

Just now, debraran said:

I think the necklace being Eddies was a pretty big clue, they were going nuts trying to find it, she was looking around bed, he went to hotel room, Deliah found it. As a recap said :

the yin-yang necklace Eddie wears all the time is missing. The good news? Delilah finds it. The bad news? She finds it in Jon’s bedside table, which she reads as a clear indication that he knew she and Eddie were sleeping together

It just seems like whoever wrote this episode seemed to forget about that little detail because, without it, there is no reason to believe that Jon knew about Eddie and Delilah.

Plus, I find it strange that if Jon had known about the affair before that, that he would be all buddy-buddy with Eddie.  (I do find it strange that Eddie is all buddy-buddy with Jon the day he is planning to break up his marriage, but....)

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, possibilities said:

He knew she was having an affair. He probably had some resentment about that and didn't feel super-obligated to be there at that point. I think of it as him thinking it was more important for him to provide financially and get out of the way, so he was plotting his death and not plotting to save the marriage. It doesn't explain why she's in financial trouble, though, so that's the part that's confusing to me. Him not being emotionally present doesn't really seem hard to understand. If she loved him, he figures she'd be trying to save the marriage, not having an affair. So fuck the dinner date, you know? Also, when you are getting ready to kill yourself, it's typical to distance from the people you're closest to. She said they had to talk. He didn't want to talk. He did show up later, but walked away when he saw her with Eddie. He probably figured it was too late. Suicidal people are not known for making the same choices people make when they're planning to keep living.

Ashley withholding things from Delilah did not seem to be Jon's intention. And her thinking she's trying to protect them by doing so also doesn't make sense, especially since it led to Delilah and Regina both being blindsided by financial ruin. So I'm not liking Ashley right now.

 

 

Regarding the bolded part my guess is that Jon’s plan is the second insurance policy. He named his friends beneficiaries and labeled the envelope with Rutledge as a message to them that the money was to take care of his family. 

Then everything with Ashley is just a smoke screen to draw out the mystery. It is just another example of bad writing. 

50 minutes ago, possibilities said:

 

I thought Maggie moved to Boston to die, and wanted to do it without her family knowing. Thus, not wanting to unpack, etc. But seeing her sound like she was making appointments to do chemo before her dad showed up made that really confusing. She packed up again when he left, so clearly she does not plan to stick around. Maybe her Friday at 1 appts weren't for chemo. Maybe they were for something else. At the same time, if she's planning to die, why keep all her stuff? Why not get rid of it, instead of just putting it into storage?

 

Maggie was planning on getting chemo when she moved to Boston. She only decided against it after she met Gary. I don’t think she’s ever said why she moved to Boston but it seemed to have something to do with her ex.

 

40 minutes ago, izabella said:

I think he was saying it's dangerous to take the battery out of the smoke alarm so it stops beeping, which is what Delilah was doing.  Once you make it stop beeping, it's really easy in a busy household to forget to replace the batteries.   I think smoke alarms are still functional even though they're beeping because the battery is low.

 

That actually makes sense. 

Edited January 27, 2019 by Guest

[debraran]

12 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

It just seems like whoever wrote this episode seemed to forget about that little detail because, without it, there is no reason to believe that Jon knew about Eddie and Delilah.

Plus, I find it strange that if Jon had known about the affair before that, that he would be all buddy-buddy with Eddie.  (I do find it strange that Eddie is all buddy-buddy with Jon the day he is planning to break up his marriage, but....)

Maybe he just didn't care at that point and figured she wouldn't be alone. I would think on some level, having it be his friend would cut deep. Maybe if he had any hesitation on killing himself, that helped. Time will tell, but in the letter you can see a bit of in above post, he said he didn't want her "implicated" so it does sound like a bad business deal was part of it. I hope whatever it is, it makes some sense, I understand many times suicide doesn't, but this is a show where they have drawn out the reasons for weeks, so I'm looking forward to something not anti-climatic.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, debraran said:

Maybe he just didn't care at that point and figured she wouldn't be alone. I would think on some level, having it be his friend would cut deep. Maybe if he had any hesitation on killing himself, that helped. Time will tell, but in the letter you can see a bit of in above post, he said he didn't want her "implicated" so it does sound like a bad business deal was part of it. I hope whatever it is, it makes some sense, I understand many times suicide doesn't, but this is a show where they have drawn out the reasons for weeks, so I'm looking forward to something not anti-climatic.

Plus the show is trying very hard to justify Delilah having an affair. I think Jon knowing and still telling them to “love each other” is just another way to take the blame off Delilah. After all, if Jon and Katherine can get over it, why shouldn’t everyone else. Jon being sick would switch the sympathy back to him. 

Edited January 28, 2019 by Guest

[debraran]

1 minute ago, Dani said:

Plus the show is trying very hard to justify Delilah having an affair. I think Jon knowing and still telling them to “love each other” is just another way to take the blame off Delilah. After all, if Jon and Katherine can get over it, why shouldn’t everyone else. Jon being sick would switch the sympathy back to him. 

I just don't like her and picking your husband's best friend, part of your friend group, your daughter's guitar instructor, is just so TV soap opera. I guess I find Jon's character more interesting because he was involved in so many things and helped Gary and his friends and his wife seemed to just do whatever, she stayed home, but didn't clean, probably didn't do laundry, not sure what she did all day but not knowing about their finances just makes her kind of clueless. I guess she deserves Eddie.

[ramble]

7 hours ago, iwasish said:

The lie about the baby being Jon’s is going to bite them in their asses eventually. I can tell you that from experience. And when the truth comes out, it’s devastating. I know, it happened in my family. Different reasons for the lie, but the end result was heartbreaking. 

If Jon hadn’t killed himself, did Delilah just assume she’d get a big settlement from him and she and Eddie would be set? Eddie certainly doesn’t earn enough to support her and three kids. Alimony would be cut off if she remarried.  Clearly they didn’t put a lot of thought into the future. 

I get the feeling that Delilah and Eddie never thought past their hormonal love fest to the real life that would follow. They probably romanticized how no one would stay upset with them for too long. Their amazing story of lovely love would convince everyone, even their former spouses, that their beautiful story was inevitable. I like to imagine what would’ve happened when they ended up in a crappy little apartment facing every day drudgery without the rosy glow of post coital dreams fueling their plans. 

[alexvillage]

12 hours ago, izabella said:

I think he was saying it's dangerous to take the battery out of the smoke alarm so it stops beeping, which is what Delilah was doing.  Once you make it stop beeping, it's really easy in a busy household to forget to replace the batteries.   I think smoke alarms are still functional even though they're beeping because the battery is low.

I really don't think he was concerned about that (the editing of the dialogue focused on the stool) or he would have extra batteries in the house but even if he was, I would think that t high end house like theirs, in an apparently "high middle class" (Ugh, this labeling) neighborhood the smoke alarm are wired so if one goes off, all of them go.

[iwasish]

3 hours ago, alexvillage said:

I really don't think he was concerned about that (the editing of the dialogue focused on the stool) or he would have extra batteries in the house but even if he was, I would think that t high end house like theirs, in an apparently "high middle class" (Ugh, this labeling) neighborhood the smoke alarm are wired so if one goes off, all of them go.

Lol, even in a middle class house, you need to have hard wired smoke alarms, the battery is just a back up if power is lost. You can take the battery out to stop the beeping and the alarm will work without it. The beeping is only to let you know the battery is dead not that there’s a fire. More lazy writing. 

[Winston Wolfe]

16 hours ago, debraran said:

I guess I find Jon's character more interesting because he was involved in so many things and helped Gary and his friends and his wife seemed to just do whatever, she stayed home, but didn't clean, probably didn't do laundry, not sure what she did all day but not knowing about their finances just makes her kind of clueless.

Even with that, it seems like Jon was so busy fixing everyone else's lives that his family was being neglected along the way.  I'm sure that's a big part of his whole "I'm not the man everyone thinks I am mantra."  Even his daughter is kind of seeing it now.  It's a lot easier solving other people's problems than cleaning up your own messes. 

[smartymarty]

19 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

As I said, they made a point of showing he went to a *pharmacy* to buy batteries, and that isn't where someone normally goes to buy things like that unless they are going for another reason. 

That's ALWAYS where I buy batteries, unless I'm in Walmart for something else.

18 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

It just seems like whoever wrote this episode seemed to forget about that little detail because, without it, there is no reason to believe that Jon knew about Eddie and Delilah.

19 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Also, something about the scene of him right before he jumped made me think it was more of an impulsive decision than I had previously thought.

 

19 hours ago, possibilities said:

He knew about the affair because he had found Eddie's necklace, I thought? And it sure looked to me like he had all the suicide things planned out. He had spent the entire day getting his paperwork in order and finishing up unfinished business.

I agree that this episode made it seem like Jon just realized about the affair when he saw Delilah and Eddie at the restaurant, but (1) we know he'd already seen the necklace, and (2) if he didn't suspect an affair, then what he saw through the window could have just been a coincidence that Eddie was at the same restaurant (or had seen Delilah through the window and stopped to say hello).

I also agree that this episode made it seem like the suicide was an impulse decision. Sure he had life insurance, but one would, whether to help his family economically in case of his death or because Barbara Jordan. He didn't buy it the day of the suicide -- Jon would know that wouldn't work. Rather, the failure of the "subway" (the "T") resolution to pass City Council seems to be the instigating factor. It meant that he couldn't pay the mortgages on all of his buildings. I'm guessing he intended to flip a building bought cheaply that would sell for many times that if the subway were to extend to it.

I admit my theory has issues since the building contained his old college apartment (that better have been rented by at least 10 guys, or Jon came from money, because it's huge -- I lived in Boston and old apartments were puny) that he seemed to want to keep. Either he would sell the building except that apartment, or it's bad writing again. I'm voting for bad writing again because who lives in an apartment in college that doesn't isn't along a subway route?

[iwasish]

3 hours ago, Winston Wolfe said:

Even with that, it seems like Jon was so busy fixing everyone else's lives that his family was being neglected along the way.  I'm sure that's a big part of his whole "I'm not the man everyone thinks I am mantra."  Even his daughter is kind of seeing it now.  It's a lot easier solving other people's problems than cleaning up your own messes. 

You’re so right. I know lots of folk who spend their time solving other people’s problems,, yet their own house is in turmoil. I guess it makes them feel as if they’re in control of at least something.

 

1 hour ago, smartymarty said:

That's ALWAYS where I buy batteries, unless I'm in Walmart for something else.

 

I agree that this episode made it seem like Jon just realized about the affair when he saw Delilah and Eddie at the restaurant, but (1) we know he'd already seen the necklace, and (2) if he didn't suspect an affair, then what he saw through the window could have just been a coincidence that Eddie was at the same restaurant (or had seen Delilah through the window and stopped to say hello).

I also agree that this episode made it seem like the suicide was an impulse decision. Sure he had life insurance, but one would, whether to help his family economically in case of his death or because Barbara Jordan. He didn't buy it the day of the suicide -- Jon would know that wouldn't work. Rather, the failure of the "subway" (the "T") resolution to pass City Council seems to be the instigating factor. It meant that he couldn't pay the mortgages on all of his buildings. I'm guessing he intended to flip a building bought cheaply that would sell for many times that if the subway were to extend to it.

I admit my theory has issues since the building contained his old college apartment (that better have been rented by at least 10 guys, or Jon came from money, because it's huge -- I lived in Boston and old apartments were puny) that he seemed to want to keep. Either he would sell the building except that apartment, or it's bad writing again. I'm voting for bad writing again because who lives in an apartment in college that doesn't isn't along a subway route?

He had to have the insurance policy/ies in effect for a while. Usually there is a clause in them that they won’t payout on a suicide occuring within a certain period of time after the policy is purchased. 

[smartymarty]

48 minutes ago, iwasish said:

He had to have the insurance policy/ies in effect for a while. Usually there is a clause in them that they won’t payout on a suicide occuring within a certain period of time after the policy is purchased. 

That's what I meant to say. It didn't seem from the episode that he'd been planning suicide ever since he purchased life insurance, biding his time until the suicide clause deadlines ran out. Earlier episodes suggested that he had planned this for a long time. Now I think it was a reaction to the subway vote.

[possibilities]

1 hour ago, smartymarty said:

 who lives in an apartment in college that doesn't isn't along a subway route?

Rich people who can afford a gigantic apartment in Boston and own their own car, I'm guessing. It can be bad writing and also consistent.

His letter to Delilah was already written. He pulled it out of the drawer and left it for her, as soon as he heard the subway fell through. I think they are still giving us mixed signals on whether he was being impulsive or whether he was planning.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, smartymarty said:

 

I also agree that this episode made it seem like the suicide was an impulse decision. Sure he had life insurance, but one would, whether to help his family economically in case of his death or because Barbara Jordan. He didn't buy it the day of the suicide -- Jon would know that wouldn't work. Rather, the failure of the "subway" (the "T") resolution to pass City Council seems to be the instigating factor. It meant that he couldn't pay the mortgages on all of his buildings. I'm guessing he intended to flip a building bought cheaply that would sell for many times that if the subway were to extend to it.

I wouldn’t be surprised if his suicide was planned or impulse at this point. I do think that Nash wanted the audience to draw the conclusion that it was planned because the policy date was deliberately shown. He killed himself exactly two years and two days after he bought the insurance policy and the suicide clause is usually two years. 

[HazelEyes4325]

1 hour ago, smartymarty said:

I agree that this episode made it seem like Jon just realized about the affair when he saw Delilah and Eddie at the restaurant, but (1) we know he'd already seen the necklace, and (2) if he didn't suspect an affair, then what he saw through the window could have just been a coincidence that Eddie was at the same restaurant (or had seen Delilah through the window and stopped to say hello).

5

I wrote this in another thread, but my issue with thinking that the necklace was proof that Jon knew about the affair doesn't quite hold water.  All we really know is that Jon found the necklace.  What we don't know is *where* he found it.  There is a big difference between finding it in your bed and finding it in your living room.  For all we know, Jon found it in the downstairs guest bathroom and just put it in his bedside table to remember to give it to Eddie the next time he saw him.

Also, I have trouble taking anything with the necklace too seriously.  For one thing, it is the thing that Eddie ALWAYS wore and couldn't be without, but he went at least 10 days without noticing that it was missing?  (Delilah found it the day after Jon''s funeral, which was 9 days after his death and Eddie didn't have it the day before Jon died and thought he had lost it the day Jon died when he was at the hotel with Delilah).  Secondly, I think the entire purpose of that stupid necklace was to be the device for Katherine to find out about the affair and it has been completely shelved until the "previously on..." for either this episode or the last one. 

I just kind of get the feeling that Nash is dropping all these misleading "hints" but when/if the truth comes out it will either be something completely underwhelming OR something so far out of left field that it defies all the laws of logic.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I wrote this in another thread, but my issue with thinking that the necklace was proof that Jon knew about the affair doesn't quite hold water.  All we really know is that Jon found the necklace.  What we don't know is *where* he found it.  There is a big difference between finding it in your bed and finding it in your living room.  For all we know, Jon found it in the downstairs guest bathroom and just put it in his bedside table to remember to give it to Eddie the next time he saw him.

Also, I have trouble taking anything with the necklace too seriously.  For one thing, it is the thing that Eddie ALWAYS wore and couldn't be without, but he went at least 10 days without noticing that it was missing?  (Delilah found it the day after Jon''s funeral, which was 9 days after his death and Eddie didn't have it the day before Jon died and thought he had lost it the day Jon died when he was at the hotel with Delilah).  Secondly, I think the entire purpose of that stupid necklace was to be the device for Katherine to find out about the affair and it has been completely shelved until the "previously on..." for either this episode or the last one. 

I just kind of get the feeling that Nash is dropping all these misleading "hints" but when/if the truth comes out it will either be something completely underwhelming OR something so far out of left field that it defies all the laws of logic.

I feel the same way. I really don’t think most of the stuff on this show has been thought through at all. There are so many plot holes that it is almost impossible to determine what is important and what was simply a plot device. 

[doodlebug]

9 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I wrote this in another thread, but my issue with thinking that the necklace was proof that Jon knew about the affair doesn't quite hold water.  All we really know is that Jon found the necklace.  What we don't know is *where* he found it.  There is a big difference between finding it in your bed and finding it in your living room.  For all we know, Jon found it in the downstairs guest bathroom and just put it in his bedside table to remember to give it to Eddie the next time he saw him.

Also, I have trouble taking anything with the necklace too seriously.  For one thing, it is the thing that Eddie ALWAYS wore and couldn't be without, but he went at least 10 days without noticing that it was missing?  (Delilah found it the day after Jon''s funeral, which was 9 days after his death and Eddie didn't have it the day before Jon died and thought he had lost it the day Jon died when he was at the hotel with Delilah).  Secondly, I think the entire purpose of that stupid necklace was to be the device for Katherine to find out about the affair and it has been completely shelved until the "previously on..." for either this episode or the last one. 

I just kind of get the feeling that Nash is dropping all these misleading "hints" but when/if the truth comes out it will either be something completely underwhelming OR something so far out of left field that it defies all the laws of logic.

But, why would he put it in his bedside table unless he found it near his bed?  Eddie didn't visit in the bedroom (that Jon knew) and why would he take it up there if he was planning to return it to Eddie?  Far more likely that he would've put it in his coat pocket or left it with his car keys or similar if he was planning to give it back.  The fact that Jon put it in his bedside table indicates to me that 1) he found it nearby and 2) he wasn't planning on giving it back at that time. 

To me, this indicates that Jon found the necklace someplace unexpected, like his bed, on the floor by his bed or in his bathroom and, at the very least, wondered why Eddie's necklace was there.  He then put it away in a place where no one else in the family was likely to look which indicates to me that he was, at the very least, suspicious about it.  If he had no concerns about how the necklace found it's way into the house, like it was in the living room sofa; then he wouldn't have taken it upstairs and put it away and he would've mentioned it to Delilah and/or the kids.

Edited January 28, 2019 by doodlebug

[HazelEyes4325]

1 minute ago, doodlebug said:

But, why would he put it in his bedside table unless he found it near his bed?  Eddie didn't visit in the bedroom (that Jon knew) and why would he take it up there if he was planning to return it to Eddie?  Far more likely that he would've put it in his coat pocket or left it with his car keys or similar if he was planning to give it back.  The fact that Jon put it in his bedside table indicates to me that 1) he found it nearby and 2) he wasn't planning on giving it back at that time.

No, I could see him put it there.  He didn't want to lose it, he might keep his wallet and keys in that drawer (that's where my husband keeps his) and it would make sense for him to put it there to remember to take it if he planned to see Eddie that day.

Of course, this does beg the question of WHEN he found it, because we know he planned to and did see Eddie the day before and Eddie didn't have the necklace then (according to the publicity pictures.  Yeah, I checked).  Honestly, I think the writers completely forgot about the necklace once it served its purpose with Katherine.

[doodlebug]

1 minute ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

No, I could see him put it there.  He didn't want to lose it, he might keep his wallet and keys in that drawer (that's where my husband keeps his) and it would make sense for him to put it there to remember to take it if he planned to see Eddie that day.

Of course, this does beg the question of WHEN he found it, because we know he planned to and did see Eddie the day before and Eddie didn't have the necklace then (according to the publicity pictures.  Yeah, I checked).  Honestly, I think the writers completely forgot about the necklace once it served its purpose with Katherine.

I just don't think the writers are that clever.  It was in his bedside table because he found it nearby and it was an indication that Jon was at the very least suspicious.  Also, if he managed to grab his wallet and car keys (I think most men don't put those things in their night stand, your husband is in the minority from what I've seen), then why wouldn't he take the necklace too? 

As for Jon planning to kill himself, I wonder if it wasn't a contingency plan based on the outcome of the vote on the transportation issue.  Jon bought those buildings speculating that they would increase in value exponentially when the train station opened.  He was apparently heavily leveraged financially and had been for some time which is why he bought the insurance policy 2 years earlier, to provide for his family if the business went south and he died.  It could also be he was mixed up with some shady characters in these business deals and was worried for his life if those people lost money.  Then, several things happened.  Jon found Eddie's necklace and, if he wasn't suspicious initially, he sure was when he saw his wife and Eddie canoodling in the restaurant.  That, coupled with the failed plan for the train stop; lead him to go ahead and jump knowing that the insurance would be there.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

But, why would he put it in his bedside table unless he found it near his bed?  Eddie didn't visit in the bedroom (that Jon knew) and why would he take it up there if he was planning to return it to Eddie?  Far more likely that he would've put it in his coat pocket or left it with his car keys or similar if he was planning to give it back.  The fact that Jon put it in his bedside table indicates to me that 1) he found it nearby and 2) he wasn't planning on giving it back at that time. 

To me, this indicates that Jon found the necklace someplace unexpected, like his bed, on the floor by his bed or in his bathroom and, at the very least, wondered why Eddie's necklace was there.  He then put it away in a place where no one else in the family was likely to look which indicates to me that he was, at the very least, suspicious about it.  If he had no concerns about how the necklace found it's way into the house, like it was in the living room sofa; then he wouldn't have taken it upstairs and put it away and he would've mentioned it to Delilah and/or the kids.

Unfortunately I just don’t think the writers are putting that much thought into it. The necklace caused Delilah to panic and try to push Eddie away. As a result Eddie decided to back out of the recital at the last minute allowing Rome to step in and reveal that Jon has arranged for him to know the dance all along. 

The necklace could mean Jon knew or it could just be a plot device. At the moment the show is too full of things that make no sense for me to distinguish what is important. 

[pinkglove]

On 27.01.2019 at 7:42 AM, bybrandy said:

I got the impression the phone call Maggie was on when her dad showed up was her setting up chemo and the decision not to go through with it came during his visit.   Did I make that up out of thin air?  Sadly, I deleted the show immediately after watching it.

Thanks for that, I didn't pay enough attention and I missed that, now Maggie's scenes in this episode make way more sense. 

 

I really couldn't care less about whether Jon knew about the affair or not. I don't think it had any significant impact on the situation. I also don't see him as a good husband or a good friend, and even if, obviously, what Delilah and Eddie did wasn't right, he kind of had it coming. He only seemed to care about Delilah in the sense that he wanted to provide for his family, fulfill a commitment. And I know that it's controversial to say that he wasn't a good friend, but friendship goes both ways. If you aren't able to open up, be honest, but you keep doing things for others, possibly to either distract yourself from your problems or get rid of some of the guilt that you are carrying, that's more of a charity work, the kind that is probably about to backfire big time, hurting everyone around (in this show, so far we can see how it hurt Gary, I'm not yet sure about the others). 

If you barricade yourself, those close to you are going to look for someone who's open; being a husband is not only about paying bills and being a friend is not about being a shrink. Not saying that it's supposed to bring such person's wife together with one of his best friends, but people deal how they deal. 

[dogfish]

On 1/25/2019 at 2:32 PM, Gothish520 said:

I'm with you re: Eddie and Delilah. What they did was wrong, absolutely, but it definitely appears that Katherine and Jon regularly blew them off and did not take care of their relationships. And I do not buy the "it's for the family" excuse either. Once in a while, sure, but sometimes what your family needs is YOU. How many people say "Damn, I really should've spent more time working" over "I really should've spent more time with my family"?

All four are at fault for the failures in their relationships - but that doesn't mean that they were all equally at fault. And Katherine at least contacted Eddie to say she would be late; it appears Jon just completely blew off Delilah without a word, at least not until much later. I am loving Ron Livingston's work here though!

I think Katherine HAD to work that hard to keep the family afloat. Her man-child husband certainly wasn’t providing much of an income giving guitar lessons

[jhlipton]

On 1/24/2019 at 8:09 PM, doodlebug said:

The dog was a stray that started folowing Gary as he walked through the park.  He took it home because the shelter was closed.  I think he initially didn’t want to keep the dog because he was worried that his check up would show that his cancer was back. When the checkup was normal, Gary decided he wanted the dog.

Gary is shown as being terrified of commitment, so he didn't want the dog.  But when he found out that Colin would be killed in two weeks, that's what solidified his desire to keep the dog.

On 1/27/2019 at 1:34 PM, HazelEyes4325 said:

I guess I've gotten past my Grace Park issues because I'm all here for Katherine.

Same.  She was OK, but over-rated on Hawaii 5-0, but is much better here.

[KnoxForPres]

8 hours ago, Dani said:

Unfortunately I just don’t think the writers are putting that much thought into it. The necklace caused Delilah to panic and try to push Eddie away. As a result Eddie decided to back out of the recital at the last minute allowing Rome to step in and reveal that Jon has arranged for him to know the dance all along. 

The necklace could mean Jon knew or it could just be a plot device. At the moment the show is too full of things that make no sense for me to distinguish what is important. 

Ugh!  I hate that we’re out here wondering. That is weak writing indeed.

I reach a point where I don’t care. Was I supposed to care about the Barcelona storyline?  Bc I care more about debating  cheese on hash browns. (Always a yes)

We need answers. Suicide by massive debt -but!I I let my hot secretary know about apartment blocks and desire for others to get a restaurant.  There are sweet children here- connect some dots. 

When you think of really great shows that have things happen (Mad Men comes to mind) I wish we’d all get together and throw in a few bucks and we could make a story.  That people get paid for this....nothing- and worse I’m watching. 

Edited January 29, 2019 by KnoxForPres

[possibilities]

9 hours ago, pinkglove said:

I got the impression the phone call Maggie was on when her dad showed up was her setting up chemo and the decision not to go through with it came during his visit.

But why? What about that visit convinced her to not do the chemo?

[flyingmontana]

I'm 100 percent with those who watch this show with a whole different feeling when Jon is on screen--somehow I forget I'm watching an actor performing and feel like I'm watching a real life scene. Some have noted that Jon was a jerk to Delilah and thus bears some responsibility for the troubles in their marriage. But when she tells him they need to talk, and that she's "made a reservation at L'Epine," I could not help gritting my teeth at her smug, self-consciously "authentic" French pronunciation of "L'Epine." I know the actress is French so that came easily to her, but within the show, it came across as so annoying that I felt like I too would stand her up for the restaurant date, even with my marriage at stake.

[debraran]

1 hour ago, flyingmontana said:

I'm 100 percent with those who watch this show with a whole different feeling when Jon is on screen--somehow I forget I'm watching an actor performing and feel like I'm watching a real life scene. Some have noted that Jon was a jerk to Delilah and thus bears some responsibility for the troubles in their marriage. But when she tells him they need to talk, and that she's "made a reservation at L'Epine," I could not help gritting my teeth at her smug, self-consciously "authentic" French pronunciation of "L'Epine." I know the actress is French so that came easily to her, but within the show, it came across as so annoying that I felt like I too would stand her up for the restaurant date, even with my marriage at stake.

I knew he would be late with what he was planning, a waste of time, but he did come. I would have just texted.  I don't think Jon working a lot for two years is an excuse to take up with his best friend. No reason why she didn't do anything earlier or say how much she needed him around more. If he knew in real life she was serious and they were hurting, he'd have talked because divorce attorney's would find out. I remember a woman at my gym had an affair with her friends husband while her lawyer husband worked long hours. What a mess, although I stayed out of much of the gossip. The "passion" she wanted died pretty quickly and her husband stayed but the other couple broke up. She complained he worked late hours but she stayed home with 2 kids, spent lots of time in classes, working out, had the freedom to make her own schedule, had the big house etc. Sometimes you need to know what you really want and if it's not right, speak up. Nothing is ever perfect and most rich lifestyles aren't made 9-5.

And why do you meet your husband at a fancy french restaurant to dump him? Luggage in car...where were the kids? I was confused about all that but I don't like her character so I might have missed something. Was she leaving the kids too?

Edited January 29, 2019 by debraran

[smartymarty]

14 hours ago, jhlipton said:

But when he found out that Colin would be killed in two weeks, that's what solidified his desire to keep the dog.

When he found that out PLUS when he found out he was not dying (he was in remission), he decided to keep the dog.

The episode is titled "The Day Before." On that day, Maggie (1) set up a chemo appointment, (2) unpacked all of her things with her father, and (3) went to a cancer survivors support group, where she met Gary. In between (2) and (3) she decided not to do chemo???

The day before, Gary (1) found out he was officially in remission, (2) while at the doctor's office found out Jon had committed suicide, then (3) went to a cancer survivors support group where he met Maggie?? The next morning they went to the funeral together??

Do I have something wrong?

[HazelEyes4325]

16 hours ago, dogfish said:

I think Katherine HAD to work that hard to keep the family afloat. Her man-child husband certainly wasn’t providing much of an income giving guitar lessons

Exactly.  We still don't know what was going on with Jon, but we know that Katherine:

1 - Had to work so much because she was the sole provider of her family

2 - Did not want to work so hard because she wanted to spend time with her family

3 - Was an incredibly engaged parent when she was able to spend time with her family.

This line of thinking of (and I'm keeping to one side of the equation here), "Well, what Eddie did was bad, but Katherine blew him off" just boggles my mind.

There are times that my husband has to work long hours.  Does this mean I get to bang my hot neighbor (not that I would do that, or that I have any especially hot neighbors...)?

To go a bit to the other side of the equation...at least Eddie was supposedly doing *something* to help provide for his family.  He was the primary caregiver and I'm guessing that some of the parents of his students did pay him in money.  Delilah, on the other hand, what the hell did she do?  Yeah, she was the primary caregiver, but her kids were older so she did have more independence than Eddie would have had.

There is no way you can slice or dice this that I can see either Katherine (especially Katherine) or Jon being at all responsible for Eddie and Delilah's choices.

[doodlebug]

51 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

When he found that out PLUS when he found out he was not dying (he was in remission), he decided to keep the dog.

The episode is titled "The Day Before." On that day, Maggie (1) set up a chemo appointment, (2) unpacked all of her things with her father, and (3) went to a cancer survivors support group, where she met Gary. In between (2) and (3) she decided not to do chemo???

The day before, Gary (1) found out he was officially in remission, (2) while at the doctor's office found out Jon had committed suicide, then (3) went to a cancer survivors support group where he met Maggie?? The next morning they went to the funeral together??

Do I have something wrong?

Maggie and Gary met at the support group the day before the funeral which was a number of days, maybe a week, after Jon jumped.

[HazelEyes4325]

5 hours ago, debraran said:

And why do you meet your husband at a fancy french restaurant to dump him? Luggage in car...where were the kids? I was confused about all that but I don't like her character so I might have missed something. Was she leaving the kids too?

1

I didn't quite follow it either.  She had booked him a room at a hotel so he could be alone, but she also filled up the fridge for the kids.  So, was she going to send him away AND leave the kids?  Or was she going to move Eddie in that very night?

1 minute ago, doodlebug said:

Maggie and Gary met at the support group the day before the funeral which was a number of days, maybe a week, after Jon jumped.

According to Nash's timeline (which we know makes no sense), the funeral was 9 days after Jon died, so they met just over a week later.

[cardigirl]

1 hour ago, smartymarty said:

When he found that out PLUS when he found out he was not dying (he was in remission), he decided to keep the dog.

The episode is titled "The Day Before." On that day, Maggie (1) set up a chemo appointment, (2) unpacked all of her things with her father, and (3) went to a cancer survivors support group, where she met Gary. In between (2) and (3) she decided not to do chemo???

The day before, Gary (1) found out he was officially in remission, (2) while at the doctor's office found out Jon had committed suicide, then (3) went to a cancer survivors support group where he met Maggie?? The next morning they went to the funeral together??

Do I have something wrong?

I thought he made the decision to get the dog before he got the results from an extremely uncaring doctor.  What kind of a doctor spends the appointment on the phone discussing salad dressing when he has a patient with him waiting for results? 

[possibilities]

I thought Delilah was planning to stay in the hotel room, and she stocked the refrigerator so Jon and the kids would have groceries while she abandoned them. I know Eddie was planning to leave Katherine and Theo, because he said so. So I thought Delilah was also planning to run away with him. Neither of them seem to have given any hints about financial plans.

[HazelEyes4325]

22 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I thought Delilah was planning to stay in the hotel room, and she stocked the refrigerator so Jon and the kids would have groceries while she abandoned them. I know Eddie was planning to leave Katherine and Theo, because he said so. So I thought Delilah was also planning to run away with him. Neither of them seem to have given any hints about financial plans.

She clearly said the hotel room was for Jon...which made no sense.  I mean, she was leaving the marriage and kicking him out of the house that, unlike her, he could (as far as Delilah knew at the time) afford and away from the kids that she forgot she had?

I'm not sure if all this points out that Eddie and Delilah had not thought this through or if Nash had not thought this through.  Actually, it could be both I guess.  I mean, nothing about how she would tell him that she was leaving made sense.  Why do it in a public place?  I mean, I could see the hotel room if she planned to tell him there, on PRIVATE neutral territory, but no.  Plus, and I'm saying this as someone who has no experience in this, but if you are leaving a marriage, you should be the one to leave the marriage...not the other person.

[Dowel Jones]

9 hours ago, debraran said:

And why do you meet your husband at a fancy french restaurant to dump him?

And probably leave him with the restaurant bill, too.

[HazelEyes4325]

1 hour ago, Dowel Jones said:

And probably leave him with the restaurant bill, too.

No doubt.  I am convinced that Delilah believed that she could kick Jon out, get a divorce, get custody, get child support, get the house, and get hefty alimony out of the deal.  I'm not a lawyer and have no experience in this, but I cannot believe that could happen, at least not easily.  Plus, Delilah had to understand that Jon could have (as far as she knew) hired powerhouse lawyers to represent him in a divorce, making all of this very, very hard.

  If anyone has more insight into this, I'd love to hear it.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, debraran said:

I knew he would be late with what he was planning, a waste of time, but he did come. I would have just texted.  I don't think Jon working a lot for two years is an excuse to take up with his best friend. No reason why she didn't do anything earlier or say how much she needed him around more. If he knew in real life she was serious and they were hurting, he'd have talked because divorce attorney's would find out. I remember a woman at my gym had an affair with her friends husband while her lawyer husband worked long hours. What a mess, although I stayed out of much of the gossip. The "passion" she wanted died pretty quickly and her husband stayed but the other couple broke up. She complained he worked late hours but she stayed home with 2 kids, spent lots of time in classes, working out, had the freedom to make her own schedule, had the big house etc. Sometimes you need to know what you really want and if it's not right, speak up. Nothing is ever perfect and most rich lifestyles aren't made 9-5.

And why do you meet your husband at a fancy french restaurant to dump him? Luggage in car...where were the kids? I was confused about all that but I don't like her character so I might have missed something. Was she leaving the kids too?

She mentioned that she got a hotel room for herself and arranged for the kids to not be home.  

Quote

He didn't even call. 

I tried to make it as painless as possible.

I planned everything. 

I got a hotel room so he could be alone, and I made sure the kids were gone and the fridge was stocked and The only thing Jon had to do was be here. 

He couldn't even do that. 

Well, Katherine didn't even come home so we could end things. 

If the show doesn’t want me to hate them both it’s failing miserably. 

[debraran]

22 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

No doubt.  I am convinced that Delilah believed that she could kick Jon out, get a divorce, get custody, get child support, get the house, and get hefty alimony out of the deal.  I'm not a lawyer and have no experience in this, but I cannot believe that could happen, at least not easily.  Plus, Delilah had to understand that Jon could have (as far as she knew) hired powerhouse lawyers to represent him in a divorce, making all of this very, very hard.

  If anyone has more insight into this, I'd love to hear it.

I don’t think she could ask him to leave ( most lawyers say not to move out if possible) and she’s dating his friend so not wronged in that way. She has no right to ask him to leave , well she can ask but that’s pretty ballsy. They acted like teens not adults, her and Eddie. He would do that to Jon?   That’s why I can’t like anything they do. 

[HazelEyes4325]

1 minute ago, debraran said:

I don’t think she could ask him to leave ( most lawyers say not to move out if possible) and she’s dating his friend so not wronged in that way. She has no right to ask him to leave , well she can ask but that’s pretty ballsy. They acted like teens not adults, her and Eddie. He would do that to Jon?   That’s why I can’t like anything they do. 

Here's the weird thing.  I kind of understand it from Eddie's point of view.  This is not in any way to excuse him--in fact, it might even make things worse.  But Eddie is like a dog with no real loyalty who will go with anyone who will show him any attention.  Remember when they were in the elevator and Jon (I think) asked everyone who they would want to have dinner with?  Eddie said it was his old music teacher because he was either the first or only person who believed in him.  What was his excuse for starting up with Delilah?  She said she believed in him.  Of course, she *said* she believed in him--we've never actually seen evidence of that, whereas we've seen Katherine as the one who shows up to support him.  She may not have said to him everyone morning, "Oh, Eddie, I BELIEVE in you!" but she definitely showed it with her actions.  Delilah, on the other hand, can pay lip service but when it is time to show up, she's nowhere to be found.

Now, for Delilah--the only reason I can see that she would start up an affair is boredom or, even more likely, spite.   She wasn't the center of her husband's attention so, goshdarnit, she was going to show him!  As I said, I don't think Eddie is not as bad for his motivations, but I think Delilah is worse for hers.

[HazelEyes4325]

13 minutes ago, Dani said:

She mentioned that she got a hotel room for herself and arranged for the kids to not be home.  

 

I must have totally misheard that because I thought she said something like, "I got Jon a room in case he wanted to be alone."  However, there have been many times that Szostak has garbled her lines, so I wouldn't be surprised if this was yet another example of that.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I must have totally misheard that because I thought she said something like, "I got Jon a room in case he wanted to be alone."  However, there have been many times that Szostak has garbled her lines, so I wouldn't be surprised if this was yet another example of that.

I thought the room was for Jon at first, too. I only double checked because the stocking the fridge didn’t make any sense if the room was for Jon. 

I also really disliked how the room was framed to be thoughtful even though it was really so they could be together that night. I despise their need to reveal the truth on their terms.