S02.E04: Nothing Left on Earth Excepting Fishes

[GaT]

I thought this episode was boring.

[ganesh]

I stay unspoiled as possible for all tv shows. I have Tivo but not a tv so I watch everything after. I had no idea the 'cartographer' was a krill spy, and from last season. In terms of formula, sure, I can see how the episode would be predictable. However, it really expanded the show universe.

The Krill had to have known Ed would have given fake codes. Why would the Krill think capture a low level captain like Ed? Clearly she had revenge on the mind. The krill had some thing like, 'oh yeah give us the codes and we're going to take out all your ships.' Like Ed would have access to any Union flagship. It's interesting if who else runs into the Krill. It's also interesting that the Krill have their own enemy. 

I can't imagine how this episode was boring. I thought last week was their best effort, and this topped it. The season has just been enjoyable.

The Raiders joke was funny. 

I actually do hope the show will have some continuity with Ed maybe closing himself off.

[shapeshifter]

5 HOURS AGO, YEAH NO SAID:

6 HOURS AGO, MEUSHELL SAID:

When the new enemy showed up, did anyone else think, “They are being attacked by Orcs.” I’m not complaining. They just reminded me of Orcs.

I thought they were being attacked by the winged monkeys from "The Wizard

I can't find a picture of the Chak'tal, but this LotR Orc has the same ears, for sure:
 
and I suppose the ears are reminiscent of the winged monkeys' wings.

Edited January 19, 2019 by shapeshifter

[shapeshifter]

Just a thought on a possible inspiration for The King and I reference: Yul Brynner appeared in The King and I and sang "nothing left on earth excepting fishes" in 1956, but then in 1984, So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish was published, "the fourth book of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy "trilogy" written by Douglas Adams. Its title is the message left by the dolphins when they departed Planet Earth just before it was demolished to make way for a hyperspace bypass" (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/So_Long,_and_Thanks_for_All_the_Fish).

But I'm sure the cross-cultural romance and possibly feminist theme of TKaI and its status as a classic film were bigger reasons for its appearance in the episode.

[ketose]

8 hours ago, rmontro said:

Shoot, I'm still laughing about the ship being named the Orville.

Is there a sister ship called the Wilbur?

[legaleagle53]

2 hours ago, ketose said:

Is there a sister ship called the Wilbur?

Actually, I think there is.  I don't remember where I saw/heard it mentioned, however.

[MissLucas]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I can't find a picture of the Chak'tal, but this LotR Orc has the same ears, for sure:
 
and I suppose the ears are reminiscent of the winged monkeys' wings.

 

I was more thinking of the Mangalores from 'The Fifth Element' he!

Spoiler

Not a big fan of this episode - mostly because it raised some of the same pesky questions as last year's 'enemy in human form' plot on ST: Disco did. That gave me bad flashbacks to wrists hurting from too much handwaving.

But I can still appreciate what they were going for and I guess we'll see more of Teleya - the actress is really good and makes the character work even under all the make-up and prosthetics. I also think the question raised by Ed needs to be answered. The Krill did not turn xenophobe immediately after figuring out they were not alone in the universe - it happened later after they had already left their home world. I suspect there's some intriguing backstory.

And I loved Gordon freaking out over those ink-blot holograms and the Doctor's confusion!

Edited January 19, 2019 by kariyaki
spoiler tags for DISCO, please use them for other shows' plot bombs

[shrewd.buddha]

14 hours ago, Ottis said:

And no one was concerned with what secrets she could have learned? 

I could see grounds for court martial after Ed told Telaya the secret about the pseudo-real command codes - and then let her go. But for the Orville, the writers get to decide what is serious and what is not - so there is no point in trying to apply real-world logic to things that happen there.
At some point, these sci-fi show will need to drop the gimmick of hostile aliens getting a captain's passwords/codes, because current technology is already moving past single password authorization.

Edited January 19, 2019 by shrewd.buddha

[legaleagle53]

4 minutes ago, shrewd.buddha said:

I could see grounds for court martial after Ed told Telaya the secret about the pseudo-real command codes - and then let her go. But for the Orville, the writers get to decide what is serious and what is not - so there is no point in trying to apply real-world logic to things that happen there.

That's why Kelly made a point of arguing with Ed about his decision to send Telaya home rather than turn her over to the Union.  She knew it wasn't going to sit well with the Union and that Ed was risking his career -- and more -- by doing it, even though her later speech to Gordon about the responsibilities and hard decisions that come with the territory of command indicated to me that while she didn't agree with Ed's decision, she certainly understood his reasoning for it.  I myself would love to hear Ed try to convince the Union that history will vindicate his decision as the best one for the Union in the long run because he truly believes that it will eventually lead to peace between the Union and the Krill.

[shapeshifter]

14 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

was more thinking of the Mangalores from 'The Fifth Element' he!

Yes, that's more like it!:

 

 

14 minutes ago, shrewd.buddha said:

I could see grounds for court martial after Ed told Telaya the secret about the pseudo-real command codes - and then let her go

Good point. He told her the truth to be honest with her. Or did he? ;-)

[ketose]

1 hour ago, shrewd.buddha said:

I could see grounds for court martial after Ed told Telaya the secret about the pseudo-real command codes - and then let her go. But for the Orville, the writers get to decide what is serious and what is not - so there is no point in trying to apply real-world logic to things that happen there.
At some point, these sci-fi show will need to drop the gimmick of hostile aliens getting a captain's passwords/codes, because current technology is already moving past single password authorization.

The Krill were going to figure out the fake command code thing eventually, anyway. Letting her go kind of reminds me of the whole TNG thing with Hugh. First, they were going to upload a virus against the Borg, then they figured his uniqueness would infect the Borg. And it did, not that it really helped.

Back in the 60's and 70's a "computer" was a singular thing with a memory bank that was a treasure trove of information. Now, everything tends to be live and cloud-based. In that way, the Krill would only have access to make specific queries until the access was turned off.

Here's an interesting (to me) parallel between TNG and Orville. Picard only dated one crew member of the Enterprise, ("Lessons") who worked in Stellar Cartography. Janel Tyler was a Dark Matter Cartographer. 

[ganesh]

Also the Krill agent nearly as smart as they think they are if they really believed a Union captain gave up "the codes" so easy. 

Honestly, their blind faith is their greatest weakness. I hope they aren't just on the show to be strictly an adversary. Ed got her to have a meaningful conversation. Between that and getting on their ship the last time, I'm wondering who else in the union has more direct experience with them. 

Did the Krill imply she had sex with Ed? She told him to roll over because he snores. 

Edited January 19, 2019 by ganesh

[Danielg342]

6 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

I myself would love to hear Ed try to convince the Union that history will vindicate his decision as the best one for the Union in the long run because he truly believes that it will eventually lead to peace between the Union and the Krill.

I'd love to hear it too, but I can't imagine it would be enough of an argument to get Ed out of career-ending trouble. Courts don't exactly take kindly to a "wait and see" approach, they want answers "now".

[Jacks-Son]

4 hours ago, ganesh said:

Did the Krill imply she had sex with Ed? She told him to roll over because he snores. 

They at least “slept” together, from that comment and from Ed’s, “But we canoodled!”. It depends on your meaning of canoodling. Does it solely imply snuggling or can it include sex? I hope they did and they both enjoyed it. I choose to believe that Telaya was attracted to Ed while on the Krill ship last year and that attraction led to her having feelings for him, despite her insufferable logic and it also led to her emotional pain and anger at his deception and subsequent killings. These emotions drove her to see how HE feels about his earlier deception by turning the tables on him under the exact same scenario.  She talked a mean game but if she REALLY wanted to kill Ed, she would have even if she needed him to travel to the higher ground and send a message. Her last longing look gave me the impression that she realized with regret that despite being a “human” he was actually the man she thought he was, compassionate and caring. She got her man, judging by Ed’s sorrowful face at the end.

[ganesh]

I know the "optics" of the whole thing aren't good, but it's not like Ed make the unilateral decision to hire the "cartographer". So the krill actually put one over on the whole Union. And you (as the Union) can't get mad at a captain dating one of the crew. It seems like this is a common occurrence with Kelley and the teacher, but Alara was always talking about dating even last season. 

Taking Ed to court risks a PR nightmare. And though we only are seeing a small slice of Union activity, is there another captain the successfully infiltrated a Krill ship? Anyone else get pictures of their holy book? I could see everyone wanting to sweep this under the rug. I don't see what she'd learn that would be so sensitive. Certainly Ed isn't sharing classified information. The Orville is an exploratory ship, so I can't imagine there's much to learn about the ship itself. The krill are more than capable to capture a flagship if they want. 

And really, Ed escaped from Krill captivity and lived to tell about AND returned her to her people. He's got to be notorious in Krill society. He even blew up one of their ships last season. They have to be tying themselves in knots figuring out what the hell is up with this guy. 

It kind of reminds me of Farscape where basically 5 people were figuratively the scourge of god in that end of the galaxy and literally entire empires quaked in fear. Not that the Krill are afraid of Ed, but out of all the humans in the Union, I bet his name stands out quite a lot. 

I think way too much about this show, but I have to give TPTBs enormous credit for setting up such a compelling landscape. 

[shapeshifter]

2 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Ed escaped from Krill captivity and lived to tell about AND returned her to her people. He's got to be notorious in Krill society. He even blew up one of their ships last season. They have to be tying themselves in knots figuring out what the hell is up with this guy. 

I hope they revisit this, but I'm not sure that either the show or Ed/Seth are aiming that high WRT social issues. 

Anyway, I don't see how they can have a decent intergalactic courtroom drama without Q.

[Jacks-Son]

2 minutes ago, ganesh said:

And really, Ed escaped from Krill captivity and lived to tell about AND returned her to her people. He's got to be notorious in Krill society. He even blew up one of their ships last season. They have to be tying themselves in knots figuring out what the hell is up with this guy. 

Isn't this the same scenario with Captain Archer (Pink man) and the Andorian, "Shran" in ENT?

[ketose]

I think there's a pretty big barrier to Taleya and Ed, considering her brother was one of the dead Krill from the infiltration mission.

[ganesh]

22 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I hope they revisit this, but I'm not sure that either the show or Ed/Seth are aiming that high WRT social issues. 

I don't see it as much as a commentary on social issues as tactics and philosophy. Ed isn't hunting Krill ships. Their spy mission to get the holy book was because they wanted to learn more about Krill society so they could engage with them better. 

He could have kept her locked up and sent her to the Union like Kelley advised, but he just let her go. 

So I think it's more a force v diplomacy. I could see a future episode where there's an actual negotiation for something and them specifically asking for Ed and the Union being not so pleased about it. 

[Jacks-Son]

9 minutes ago, ganesh said:

He could have kept her locked up and sent her to the Union like Kelley advised, but he just let her go. 

He didn't just let her go. He asked her to contact the Krill for her release into their custody. An actual Krill ship arrived as John stated, without weapons charged and sent out a shuttle. The shuttle arrived and met the security forces of the Orville. Guns everywhere and no shots fired.  I think at least some diplomacy facilitated this. The ship could have arrived and destroyed the Union ship and taken Telaya if she survived. Ed's gesture of defiance was already paying off dividends. 

[Chyromaniac]

19 hours ago, Meushell said:

When the new enemy showed up, did anyone else think, “They are being attacked by Orcs.” I’m not complaining. They just reminded me of Orcs.

Absolutely- and the Krill are totally Drow. Or maybe I just play too much D&D...

On 1/18/2019 at 12:29 AM, Andromeda said:

No, she likes Belloq, the archeologist working for the Nazis (Paul Freeman) and sees him as the hero.

To be fair, if you’re going to crush on anyone from that film besides Indy, it’s probably going to be Belloq.  He’s a terrific villain with a ton of great lines- “Okay Jones, you win... blow it back to God.”

Edited January 20, 2019 by Chyromaniac

[Ottis]

8 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

That's why Kelly made a point of arguing with Ed about his decision to send Telaya home rather than turn her over to the Union.  She knew it wasn't going to sit well with the Union and that Ed was risking his career -- and more -- by doing it, even though her later speech to Gordon about the responsibilities and hard decisions that come with the territory of command indicated to me that while she didn't agree with Ed's decision, she certainly understood his reasoning for it.  I myself would love to hear Ed try to convince the Union that history will vindicate his decision as the best one for the Union in the long run because he truly believes that it will eventually lead to peace between the Union and the Krill.

Back to my original point... because Seth M is in charge of this show, this is exactly what will happen. The Krill will want to talk peace because of Ed’s highly questionable choice. And I will groan.

18 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

He didn't just let her go. He asked her to contact the Krill for her release into their custody. An actual Krill ship arrived as John stated, without weapons charged and sent out a shuttle. The shuttle arrived and met the security forces of the Orville. Guns everywhere and no shots fired.  I think at least some diplomacy facilitated this. The ship could have arrived and destroyed the Union ship and taken Telaya if she survived. Ed's gesture of defiance was already paying off dividends. 

And none of that made sense, unless the Krill woman is vital to their people. It was far more logical that the Krill would show up in numbers and blow the Orville out of space. We had not been shown that there was any reason for them to do anything else. The reason they didn’t is because the show has to demonstrate how smart Ed is. That’s all. It’s becoming like Cliff Huxtable in space. But without the roofies. 

Edited January 20, 2019 by Ottis

[Jacks-Son]

Telaya had a singular importance to the Krill military.  She successfully survived a very dangerous procedure and infiltrated a Union ship, learned some secrets, had time to explore their ship and compromised a Union ship's Captain. She could have valuable Intel and should be saved and brought back for questioning.

[ganesh]

20 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

think at least some diplomacy facilitated this. The ship could have arrived and destroyed the Union ship and taken Telaya if she survived. Ed's gesture of defiance was already paying off dividends. 

I also wonder if the Krill have some kind of "no man left behind policy." They clearly think they are the superior race in the galaxy, so maybe they don't see anyone as expendable. So when Ed called them to die pick her up maybe they just said, all right let's just get her and go. 

One of their big war ships just got blown out of the sky, which had to be humiliating, and then an inferior human saved one of their own. So it could be a huge mess for them. 

I like that they have other enemies the Union doesn't know about. 

[Jacks-Son]

One thing that could have helped is what Telaya learned about Humans and Earth while she was trying to infiltrate their society. After all that time, wouldn't she have found that Humans believe in many Gods, and believe in souls. Actually, the Krill are practically very similar to humans. They believe in similar philosophies and the concepts of religion, entertainment, & honor.  I think she came away with some small measure of respect for humans and Ed. She saw that Kelly, Ed's ex, didn't hate her both before and after she was brought back to the Orville (and in custody behind bars) despite knowing that she played them and clearly hurt the man Kelly loves.

[Ottis]

43 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

Telaya had a singular importance to the Krill military.  She successfully survived a very dangerous procedure and infiltrated a Union ship, learned some secrets, had time to explore their ship and compromised a Union ship's Captain. She could have valuable Intel and should be saved and brought back for questioning.

This is becoming circular. Yes, that is true, so Ed should be court martialed. But he won’t. Because of the same reason the Orville wasn’t blown out of space. Ed has to be right, because Ed is Seth and Seth owns the show. 

[shapeshifter]

41 minutes ago, Ottis said:

And none of that made sense, unless the Krill woman is vital to their people. It was far more logical that the Krill would show up in numbers and blow the Orville out of space. We had not been shown that there was any reason for them to do anything else. The reason they didn’t is because the show has to demonstrate how smart Ed is. That’s all. It’s becoming like Cliff Huxtable in space. But without the roofies. 

If nothing else, the bolded lines above should win some sort of Previouslies Award. 
Anyway, if Ed is Cliff Huxtable in space minus the Spanish flies, then he should handily dispense with all Krill objections, be they religious, philosophical, territorial, military, or with regards to Christmas decorations.

 

18 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

Telaya learned about Humans and Earth while she was trying to infiltrate their society. After all that time, wouldn't she have found that Humans believe in many Gods, and believe in souls.

Sorry, I can't recall, but (in the show) do the 25th century Earthlings still profess belief in higher powers?

[legaleagle53]

21 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

If nothing else, the bolded lines above should win some sort of Previouslies Award. 
Anyway, if Ed is Cliff Huxtable in space minus the Spanish flies, then he should handily dispense with all Krill objections, be they religious, philosophical, territorial, military, or with regards to Christmas decorations.

 

Sorry, I can't recall, but (in the show) do the 25th century Earthlings still profess belief in higher powers?

Seth pretends that they don't by having Ed imply that humans have "evolved" beyond that stage (see "Mad Idolatry"), but I don't think that's necessarily true of all humans.

Edited January 20, 2019 by legaleagle53

[ganesh]

43 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

Actually, the Krill are practically very similar to humans.

I would say the Krill is a more consolidated society. They just have the one religion and the Raiders comment seems to indicate that they're a totalitarian society. But so were humans at different points. I think this is probably the theme. That's something scifi does well. 

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a larger enemy or there that forces the Krill and Union to work together. 

[chaifan]

On 1/18/2019 at 12:48 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

The Krill's plan was puzzling. It would seem to include

1. Have Telaya undergo surgery to pass as human, as well as some level of cultural and other preparation

2. Create a cover identity for her that would potentially allow her to seduce Ed (which means that there would have to be some level of investigation into his personal background) and that would survive at least a superficial background check

3. Arrange for Telaya to get assigned to the Orville and have her serve on board the ship for some time -- weeks if not months

4. Make a move on Ed (and hope that he's a) interested b) available c) not hung up on Kelly)

5. Await an opportunity for Telaya to leverage her closeness to Ed to smuggle secrets or something

 

The show could have easily dispensed with #2 & #3, and at least part of #4, which presumably could take a very very long time, by just invoking the other sci-fi convenience trope - the body switch.  Kidnap some random new crew member already assigned to the Orville - Janel, in this case - then have Teleya replace her.  That could have been explained with one line, so I'm sort of surprised they didn't go that route.  And, it would have given Ed a little cover for giving Teleya back to the Krill - it could have been a swap for the real Janel. 

[Jacks-Son]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

The show could have easily dispensed with #2 & #3, and at least part of #4, which presumably could take a very very long time, by just invoking the other sci-fi convenience trope - the body switch.  Kidnap some random new crew member already assigned to the Orville - Janel, in this case - then have Teleya replace her.  That could have been explained with one line, so I'm sort of surprised they didn't go that route.  And, it would have given Ed a little cover for giving Teleya back to the Krill - it could have been a swap for the real Janel

Nicely done.  Perhaps Seth chose this plan as opposed to the usual trope, because it was so deliberate, involved, and personal on Telaya's part, of course they (the Krill) could have done this with any Union ship if they had the capability to use genetic microtrans-ectomy (or whatever they called it) but they needed someone willing to undergo the painful procedure and who was dedicated to the mission.  Telaya had sufficient motivation if she didn't let any of those pesky, illogical things like romantic feelings get in the way.  She kept on insisting the things that Ed did that infuriated her: snoring; clingy (or as she put it "painfully attentive") & narrow.  Why tell someone you plan to kill exactly what they need to know to attract a mate in the future and, by inference, traits she prefers in a mate?  Maybe I see hope for Ed because I was hoping he and Alara could make it work on the show.  I guess I'm a sucker for impossible unions: Humans/Cylons; Human/Sebacean; Human/Minbari; Human/Vampire; Human/Werewolf; maybe even Human/Wraiths.

 

Spoiler

Hold on, I just thought of ST:D's last season.  Didn't the show explore a sexual union between a "transformed into Human" Klingon and a Human Navigator/Science Officer? Wasn't Michael Burnam's lover a transformed Klingon?

Edited January 20, 2019 by Jacks-Son
Spolier addition

[Danielg342]

I'm going to wait until the end of the season to pass judgement on the "court martial" idea. The episode actually mentioned that Ed could be court martialed for his actions, and the show has been great with its continuity, so I expect that point to come up again later. What I guess will happen is that in the finale Ed will get suspended or even fired, only for the S3 premiere to have him re-hired on the Orville. Maybe subordinate to Kelly...and Gordon, which could be an interesting situation.

5 hours ago, ganesh said:

I think way too much about this show, but I have to give TPTBs enormous credit for setting up such a compelling landscape.

The great thing about it too is that Seth is very good with his continuity and really working at building the landscape. There are too many shows that introduce tidbits about characters in a throwaway line or a throwaway scene, or introduce places and characters that could be fun to have again but the show then forgets about them when the episode is done. Not Seth. I mean, I doubt his record is perfect in this regard but we've already seen countless times where something was introduced in one episode which came back in another episode- like Bortus' urination Darulio, Alara's mental struggles and Teleya- so I have a lot more trust in Seth than I do with other writers to back up what they've set up.

4 hours ago, ganesh said:

I also wonder if the Krill have some kind of "no man left behind policy." They clearly think they are the superior race in the galaxy, so maybe they don't see anyone as expendable. So when Ed called them to die pick her up maybe they just said, all right let's just get her and go.

Maybe Teleya told the Krill to spare Ed. Maybe during Ed's court martial it will be Teleya who actually believes that a diplomatic solution can exist between the Union and the Krill- because she's personally seen Ed do it and vouches for his character. Maybe here too it's Teleya who convinces the Krill higher ups that Ed "isn't like other humans" and thus should be spared, if not listened to, because of how "enlightened" he is.

I'm just spinning my wheels here.

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

2. Create a cover identity for her that would potentially allow her to seduce Ed (which means that there would have to be some level of investigation into his personal background) and that would survive at least a superficial background check

As much as T wanted revenge, I don't see the Krill as petty and vindictive. They wouldn't have green lighted her mission unless they though it would be good for them. Which means the Krill think collectively that Ed is somehow important. They could have infiltrated a flagship. 

They invested resources, and I would bet it's a lot to do this, so their target was some low level ship? 

[shapeshifter]

14 minutes ago, ganesh said:

As much as T wanted revenge, I don't see the Krill as petty and vindictive. They wouldn't have green lighted her mission unless they though it would be good for them. Which means the Krill think collectively that Ed is somehow important. They could have infiltrated a flagship. 

They invested resources, and I would bet it's a lot to do this, so their target was some low level ship? 

Maybe the Orville was the low-hanging fruit that could be easily plucked?

[ganesh]

From what T said, the Krill invested a lot of resources to infiltrate the Union. The Union obviously cleared her. Given that, they could have had her go on a higher level ship, but she somehow got on the Orville. I don't think the Krill would have expended those resources just to give her an avenue of revenge. She said she volunteered. Which seems to be that the Krill were already targeting Ed in the first place. 

So I think the Krill overall have an interest in Ed. 

[Danielg342]

What if Ed and his crew are the only ones who believe that diplomacy can work with the Krill?

[ganesh]

I don't think the crew thinks that. Ed is in a unique position. We'll see what the show will do.

[shrewd.buddha]

I am not sure what to make of the fact that the women Ed has been involved with have all deceived him and/or cheated on him. 
I can only think of three: Kelly, the time-traveling Charlize Theron and now, Teleya. 
Perhaps Macfarlane is working through some issues? 

[MissLucas]

10 hours ago, ganesh said:

As much as T wanted revenge, I don't see the Krill as petty and vindictive. They wouldn't have green lighted her mission unless they though it would be good for them. Which means the Krill think collectively that Ed is somehow important. They could have infiltrated a flagship. 

They invested resources, and I would bet it's a lot to do this, so their target was some low level ship? 

Not sure this is how I would read it. The Krill wanted more intelligence on humans and those command codes (not necessarily in that order), they had a Krill with a massive chip on her shoulder and the motivation to go through a painful procedure in order to get the job done - provided the target was Ed. Said target was high-ranking enough to get her Krill superiors what they wanted so they were game.

Edited January 20, 2019 by MissLucas

[shapeshifter]

12 minutes ago, shrewd.buddha said:

I am not sure what to make of the fact that the women Ed has been involved with have all deceived him and/or cheated on him. 
I can only think of three: Kelly, the time-traveling Charlize Theron and now, Teleya. 
Perhaps Macfarlane is working through some issues? 

Or maybe it's just a short cut to be sure his character won't be a #MeToo trigger?

[rmontro]

On 1/19/2019 at 9:24 AM, ketose said:

Is there a sister ship called the Wilbur?

And maybe a USS Kitty Hawk?

[Danielg342]

13 hours ago, ganesh said:

I don't think the crew thinks that. Ed is in a unique position. We'll see what the show will do.

The command test did have a situation with the Krill where there was a diplomatic solution. Make that of what you will.

[ganesh]

Yes, I was saying we don't know the personal feelings of the crew on diplomacy with the Krill. An officer may be in a situation where that is the only option. 

Kelly certainly doesn't seem to share Ed's pov. 

[legaleagle53]

2 hours ago, ganesh said:

Yes, I was saying we don't know the personal feelings of the crew on diplomacy with the Krill. An officer may be in a situation where that is the only option. 

Kelly certainly doesn't seem to share Ed's pov. 

She doesn't agree with Ed's decision because she knows how the Union is likely to react unless he can come up with an explanation that will satisfy them and keep him from being court-martialed for treason. She does understand his reasoning, however, and I think she hopes that he will eventually be proven right.

Edited January 21, 2019 by legaleagle53

[Jacks-Son]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

Kelly certainly doesn't seem to share Ed's pov. 

We'll have to see how much of Ed's decision to turn Telaya back over to the Krill was influenced by emotions for Janel as opposed to a logical, diplomatic solution as Danielg342 observed.

[Toaster Strudel]

On 1/18/2019 at 2:45 AM, AnimeMania said:

Should I be concerned that I wasn't able to understand how when Ed turned on the transmitter, two seconds later the signal had traveled 2.6 light years?

Should I be concerned that a superior species like the Krills haven't figured out hats? Sunscreen? Umbrellas?

[Raja]

On 1/19/2019 at 5:13 PM, ketose said:

I think there's a pretty big barrier to Taleya and Ed, considering her brother was one of the dead Krill from the infiltration mission.

Perhaps but then again without enough knowledge of the Krill, in that everybody in an alien society is the same where as humans are different, they could be like the Nietzcheans of Andromeda where Tyr was a bad husband but then again  a good potential father in his enemies eyes. So Captain Mercer's  successful mission against them may have proved of his worthiness.

[AnimeMania]

If the war between the Krill and the Chak'tal starts going bad for the Krill, I think they will turn to the Union for help. If the Union rescues enough Krill ships/soliders, the Krill might abandon their hostilities toward the Union.

[Jacks-Son]

24 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

If the war between the Krill and the Chak'tal starts going bad for the Krill, I think they will turn to the Union for help. If the Union rescues enough Krill ships/soliders, the Krill might abandon their hostilities toward the Union.

 

Perhaps there  are Eidelons in the Galaxy.  ;)

[ganesh]

The Krill are overwhelmingly driven by religious superiority. It's going to take a lot to get them to ally with the Union.