Jump to content
Forums forums
PRIMETIMER
ElectricBoogaloo

S03.E11: Songbird Road, Part One

Recommended Posts

Quote

Rebecca and the Big Three reckon with secrets Jack kept from them. Jack's Vietnam story continues to be revealed.

Promo:

 

Original air date: 1/22/19

Share this post


Link to post

I'm really excited for this upcoming episode!  I want to find out what happened to Nicky, why Jack didn't tell anyone, with the possible exception that Rebecca knew.  The stories of what happened to all the service members who were lucky enough to come back from Viet Nam are interesting to me.  And, Griffin Dunne.  :D

It's a two part story, so lots of drama to come.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Way better than last week, but except Rebecca claiming she didn't know about Nicky only to find out she did because...what, old wounds?  About someone she never met? 

One of the show's strengths is using parallel story lines between Jack and his kids and I thought this was one of the better ones.  I did crack up at the mention that the Pearsons have a tendency to pick up strays.

Finally...yeesh.  That's one way to catch fish but of course that meant the last of Nicky's innocence literally exploded in front of him.  No wonder he's so messed up. 

  • Like 22

Share this post


Link to post

That hour just flew by.

I hope Kate got to a bathroom! Needing to pee whilst pregnant is nothing to mess with!!

So, that ends St Jack.

Edited by chitowngirl
  • Like 12

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, ams1001 said:

Damn show actually made me cry a little.

Jack pissed me off, though, when he wouldn't let Nicky say what he needed to say.

Kate, too, with her "we're not going anywhere"...because, what, Nicky owes them something?

I'm glad they want to help him; please just don't move him into Randall's house...

If he moves in with anyone, I say Rebecca and Miguel. They can all talk about how great Jack was while also being completely frustrating.

Good casting on old Nick. Took me a second to realize that wasn't age makeup.

1 minute ago, Spartan Girl said:

I'm shook.

My God, what happened to that kid was beyond horrific. I know it was an accident and Nicky wasn't trying to hurt anyone, but JFC who uses grenades for fishing with a kid in the boat?!

With a kid who doesn't speak English to explain why the thing's so freaking dangerous! 

  • Like 14

Share this post


Link to post

That was pretty powerful, and really sad.  I did not realize until the end that Jack never knew it was an accident.  What a tragedy all around.  A small touch that was somehow poignant to me was that little goose statue by the door of Nicky's trailer, in the present and all those years ago. 

  • Like 19

Share this post


Link to post

8 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

Way better than last week, but except Rebecca claiming she didn't know about Nicky only to find out she did because...what, old wounds?  About someone she never met? 

One of the show's strengths is using parallel story lines between Jack and his kids and I thought this was one of the better ones.  I did crack up at the mention that the Pearsons have a tendency to pick up strays.

Finally...yeesh.  That's one way to catch fish but of course that meant the last of Nicky's innocence literally exploded in front of him.  No wonder he's so messed up. 

She knew him? Did I miss that?  I see in previews, she wants answers. I still want to know what his Mom knew. How sad, she would have taken care of her son. If Jack hid that, I write him off but I don't see how.

Nicky knew about Randall and the kids but it still was a cute line from Kevin about him.

Edited by debraran
  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post

I believe Jack knew it was an accident.  He knew Nicky - and Nicky wouldn't intentionally hurt any child, and this was a child he knew and who knew him and there was obviously fondness between them.  And Jack had probably seen Nicky and the little boy interact before.  Nicky was great with him.  I could see Jack being unforgiving of Nicky for having grenades in the same boat as a child. 

  • Like 13

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

With a kid who doesn't speak English to explain why the thing's so freaking dangerous! 

I'll admit I was expecting the kid to pick up a grenade when his back was turned. Show actually had me a little nervous (partly because I was afraid they'd do something more graphic and I didn't want to see that).

  • Like 14

Share this post


Link to post
9 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

 

With a kid who doesn't speak English to explain why the thing's so freaking dangerous! 

That was part of it and Nicky was very high. He took tons of pills. I'm sure it made him silly and slow.

Angry, yes, for Jack to write him off, no. What if one of his kids hit someone by accident with his car, drunk or sober. Would he stop talking to them? Did he want forgiveness for his alcoholism? What a hard heart.

Edited by debraran
  • Like 16

Share this post


Link to post

I struggle to care about Nicky. I'm just not interested in him, and I don't want this show to shift its focus to a character we didn't even know about when it became popular. It's not like there aren't already a dozen other characters to focus on instead.

  • Like 16

Share this post


Link to post

Just now, Superpole2000 said:

I struggle to care about Nicky. I'm just not interested in him, and I don't want this show to shift its focus to a character we didn't even know about when it became popular. It's not like there aren't already a dozen other characters to focus on instead.

I can understand that.  But, knowing this show, this is leading to something else.  And I have a feeling it will be good.  Faith, Superpole2000.  Faith. 

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

I believe Jack knew it was an accident.  He knew Nicky - and Nicky wouldn't intentionally hurt any child, and this was a child he knew and who knew him and there was obviously fondness between them.  And Jack had probably seen Nicky and the little boy interact before.  Nicky was great with him.  I could see Jack being unforgiving of Nicky for having grenades in the same boat as a child. 

I don't know, he was determined not to let Nicky talk about it, so he foreclosed any chance to have clarity.  I believe there was guilt that Jack felt in not preventing it, and it was just too painful to think that he maybe could have. 

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I don't know, he was determined not to let Nicky talk about it, so he foreclosed any chance to have clarity.  I believe there was guilt that Jack felt in not preventing it, and it was just too painful to think that he maybe could have. 

Jack was supposed to take care of him, he loved him. I can't believe even though he was about to do a felony when he met Rebecca, he would have been that cold to his baby brother. Nicky could have been visiting him in jail! And I know if Kevin, drunk, did something stupid, anyone he loved, he would have gotten the Pearson 10 minute speech (before 10 minute of commercials) about forgiveness and love.

Edited by debraran
  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post

3 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I was really proud of Kevin this week.  He has shown the most character growth of all the Big 3.  I liked that he did what Jack should have done.  I am looking forward to what the writers have in store for Nicky and Kevin.

Absolutely! I literally just wrote the same lol.

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post

This was kind of interesting but I still don’t know how I feel about this twist.

Yeah.. a lot of this paints Jack in kind of a bad view and I guess that’s the point. People generally aren’t good or bad prople, but something about this Feels off.

Also I haven’t read all the  comments about tonight’s episode yet so I don’t know how others feel but this feels way worse than Rebecca having met William twice and not saying a thing to Randall or anybody. Jack lied to everyone, including his parents, it seems like his dad knew, in one of their flashbacks his dad said something about Jack not being able to save his brother. Yes this can be taken many ways but it really seemed like he meant he was dead.

Also I co-sign knowing Nicky did something accidentally. Just like William had an addiction issue but he was clean and sober and he had been for a while and also.. he was dying so... people on this show are never evil which... is fine I guess but if I’m being honest, this show is facing a problem. Everyone is so good. Or something. But I do have to give points that this episode is actually making Jack Look bad. Granted he looked bad during the drinking period of 96(?) but this isn’t looking good for him either.

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, CleoCaesar said:

So now Nicky is moving in. Yawn. It's like William: The Sequel. Like, mix it up, writers

Not if Nick moves in with Kevin!! Then it’s totally different!! Not the same at all!!! 😁

  • Like 16

Share this post


Link to post

I absolutely loved this episode!  Yes, Kate is pushy, but it needed to be said!  They did travel a long way to see him and Kevin went all the way to Viet Nam!  Really relieved that was no Kevin love life drama!  Nicky is a mess and I can't imagine how it feels to be mad at someone who's been dead for 20 years!  Kevin did the right thing.  Did not surprise me at all that the gun was laying there.  Jack is such a complex character and while Nick is no rocket scientist, he can fill in pieces for them that no one else can.  2 weeks til we know more!

  • Like 13

Share this post


Link to post

one of the better episodes this season but still mixed on it

 

I'm afraid i have to be on jack's side, when nicky dropped the grenade there was more then enough time for him to grab it and throw it into the lake rather then just yell at the kid in  a language he doesn't understand, also he could have just grabbed the kid as well when jumping

 

Kate was kind of pushy and rude when she said they weren't leaving

 

TBH i find it really hypocritical of rebecca being upset at jack, like she's the one who kept william from randall all those years, so really she should get over herself

 

i found the nicky secret really anticlimatic, i thought that nicky was going to be horribly scarred or disfigured in an accident and he was too ashamed to see jack or anyone again, i recall in an old ann landers book that happened with this one couple in ww2, also i thought maybe alternatively nicky was gay or bi and jack found out and was homophobic and disowned him which would have been dark but considering it was the 70's understandable but still unacceptable

Edited by balmz
  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I could probably talk for a long time about how much Kevin has grown and changed in three seasons. I'll admit that I wasn't a fan of Nicky being alive. Hell, I still don't want him to be sticking around for future seasons in a large capacity (we have enough characters to deal with). But Nicky being alive is actually a good arc...for Kevin, at least. They are planting a lot of similarities with the two but in a way that feels natural. This show has felt somewhat forced this season with its arcs (the political storyline, the flashforwards). But with this Nicky stuff, this episode proved that it could be a really good arc if Nicky is more of a driving force for Kevin's story. Again, for me, the BEST stuff for Kevin is stuff not about his love life. The best work comes from episodes like this for him. 

Nicky and Kevin are shown to be similar. Not just in looks, but in personality, which now actually adds to why Jack was distant from Kevin and had a hard time connecting with him. Whether it was intentional or not by the show, that little piece adds to the relationship between Jack and Kevin. Nicky and Kevin are both addicts. Both have regrets about not getting to say what needed to be said to Jack before he died. Both have a lot of remorse, guilt, and self loathing that has accumulated over decades. So I'm glad Kevin went back for Nicky. 

I agree, Kevin shined in this one. I think Nicky can help him grow a little more and not see his Dad as such a hero but with deep faults. Nicky was under the influence and not reacting normally. Any addict knows whether it's drugs or drink, you aren't yourself. Add the war component and Jack, was not understanding, even many years later. Too bad a therapist didn't help but then the story would be different. Imagine dying and your brother doesn't even know. Imagine living knowing you killed a child (as many do in life) and never getting help. What a weight to bear alone.

Edited by debraran
  • Like 20

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, jmonique said:

Having hit the wall with an addict once myself, I can understand Jack being just DONE with Nicky after a child was killed due to him. Yeah, it was an accident, but Nicky was still the adult who took a child out on a boat to go fishing with grenades, and then bailed and left the kid to die. "I never got to tell him it was an accident," Nicky says, but I don't even know if that would have mattered. Jack was trying desperately to clean his brother up, and a kid died on his watch. I don't blame him for just being OVER his brother's addictions. 

But hadn't Nicky only become an addict in Vietnam? I can understand being done after years of problems from the addiction, but Jack had just gotten to Vietnam and found out Nicky had become an addict. The timeline wasn't super clear, but I got the impression the explosion was within a couple weeks of when Nicky and Jack were re-united.

  • Like 12

Share this post


Link to post

On a side note, that post-explosion ringing-in-the-ears noise that shows love to do? I can't stand that!

  • Like 12

Share this post


Link to post

I was pretty apprehensive about where they were going with the Nicky is actually alive storyline, but after this episode, I'm sold. Honestly, the difference between this episode and the last (oh my GOD, the election crap) was like night and day. Legit the only good thing to come out of last week's episode was Zoe speaking for the audience about how much John Stamos is missed. That's it. 

So far, the stories that focus on the Big 3 as siblings seem to be the most engaging for me. The cast has such an easy, believable chemistry. 

Also, I've been super impressed with Michael Angarano as Nicky. I feel like most things I've seen him in, he was still a kid (Almost Famous, Will & Grace, probably other things I don't remember right now), and he's really grown into quite the actor. His little, "I've got Nesquik?" when Jack was about to leave was just the perfect amount of hopeful and heartbreakingly desperate. 

 

25 minutes ago, balmz said:

i found the nicky secret really anticlimatic, i thought that nicky was going to be horribly scarred or disfigured in an accident and he was too ashamed to see jack or anyone again, i recall in an old ann landers book that happened with this one couple in ww2, also i thought maybe alternatively nicky was gay or bi and jack found out and was homophobic and disowned him which would have been dark but considering it was the 70's understandable

I would have rallied if Jack had disowned Nicky over his sexuality. I know there's the big joke about "Saint Jack" and he can do no wrong, but that would have been a huge disservice to the character. 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post

There were no real winners here.  Nicky was right that Jack effectively created a new life for himself and shut off any parts of his past, namely, his family.  But it was black and white, and it makes sense that Nicky thinks so.  He's been holed up in a miserable trailer for years, with only his guilt.  His niece and nephews would never know their uncle.  I can't imagine how painful that realization must be.

Despite that, I can see why Jack reacted the way he did.  Whether or not he knew the truth, an innocent child died because of Nicky.  And even if Jack had listened to Nicky or read his letters, would he have been satisfied with the truth?  He spent all of his time in Vietnam trying to look out for his brother.  The explosion was the last straw.  All the apologies in the world wouldn't bring Lahn back.

Sadly, I think Kate annoys me so much that even when she has a good moment, it just comes off as smug.  Nicky could have just told them to gtfo or he'd call the cops, but of course that wouldn't be as poignant.

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post

So after all that... it was an accident... and jack wouldn’t even hear him out? And lied that he was dead???

 

ugh this is not the Jack we met in season one. This is retrofitted. Sad and not believable.

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
19 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

On a side note, that post-explosion ringing-in-the-ears noise that shows love to do? I can't stand that!

IIRC, that's actually pretty accurate with what it sounds like after being in close proximity to an explosion. For some people, unfortunately, that ringing is the last thing they hear ever again. 

  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, Brinny said:

I was pretty apprehensive about where they were going with the Nicky is actually alive storyline, but after this episode, I'm sold. Honestly, the difference between this episode and the last (oh my GOD, the election crap) was like night and day. Legit the only good thing to come out of last week's episode was Zoe speaking for the audience about how much John Stamos is missed. That's it. 

So far, the stories that focus on the Big 3 as siblings seem to be the most engaging for me. The cast has such an easy, believable chemistry. 

Also, I've been super impressed with Michael Angarano as Nicky. I feel like most things I've seen him in, he was still a kid (Almost Famous, Will & Grace, probably other things I don't remember right now), and he's really grown into quite the actor. His little, "I've got Nesquik?" when Jack was about to leave was just the perfect amount of hopeful and heartbreakingly desperate. 

 

I would have rallied if Jack had disowned Nicky over his sexuality. I know there's the big joke about "Saint Jack" and he can do no wrong, but that would have been a huge disservice to the character. 

sorta confused, what do you mean you would have rallied?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Fantastic episode..and yeah, Kevin's arc is what I find the best part..I do wonder if the reason for Jack's coldness are due to him seeing Nicky as all that Vietnam represents to him..and not wanting the best part of his life to intertwine with the worst part.

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post

Just made it to the end and I did cry. But what kind of brother turns so finally on his own brother he even lies about it? Really sad. 

2 minutes ago, stonehaven said:

Fantastic episode..and yeah, Kevin's arc is what I find the best part..I do wonder if the reason for Jack's coldness are due to him seeing Nicky as all that Vietnam represents to him..and not wanting the best part of his life to intertwine with the worst part.

I think that is true... that he did it out of a kind of self protection... but it’s still very selfish. Especially when he had his own children and saw them sometimes flail... he should have found forgiveness. Or at least Heard him out.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post

That episode was hard to watch. 

Mare we supposed to think Rebecca was just emotional of Nicky or is this the beginning signs of the illness that is alluded to in the whole flash forward plot?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
50 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

On a side note, that post-explosion ringing-in-the-ears noise that shows love to do? I can't stand that!

My dog hated it. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

This was a great episode for Kevin. He's easily my favorite of the Big Three mostly because none of his storylines frustrate me. The parallels between Jack and Kevin were really well done and I could see how Kevin, being a former addict himself and also feeling left out, would have a lot of empathy (and sympathy) for Nicky. 

I have a few nitpicks with the writing like Kate hanging up the call and then just miraculously showing up at the door (unnecessary, she still could've said what she said to Nicky without the dramatics), then Nicky inviting them in then almost immediately kicking them out (clunky and only really served for Kate to say what she said then for the whole "you are Jack's kids.") BUT this happened within the first 15? 20? minutes of this show and after last week, I was ready to hate this episode too. However, this was miles better than last week. (Butch and Sundance hee!)

1 hour ago, CleoCaesar said:

So in the dozens of postcards Nicky sent Jack, he couldn't have written "What happened to the kid was a total accident. I tried to warn him but it happened too fast. It's haunted me for years." on ANY of them?

I knew the show wouldn't have the balls to have Nicky do something truly wrong. Really cowardly writing. Having his big sin be an accident is weak tea. If he'd committed treason or a war crime, now that would take skill to write and be affecting.

So now Nicky is moving in. Yawn. It's like William: The Sequel. Like, mix it up, writers!

I agree with this and I think that's my problem with the writing on this show (does this show have new writers or has it always been this clunky and awkward and last week's awful episode opened my eyes?)  is afraid of really GOING there and making people do truly awful shit or they write these huge cliffhangers and can't (and don't) follow through. I'll reserve (some) judgment until I see how this plays out next week but I have a sister. She's not even that much younger than me. I feel like putting her in a chokehold some days and she freaking infuriates me on most days but I love her so I don't know if I would ever COMPLETELY write her off at least not for the reason we got on the show.  Maybe we wouldn't be close but telling everyone that she's dead? I don't know if Jack would either, I mean he still was in touch with his parents no? And he was an alcoholic so he's had to have done questionable things while under the influence.

I like Nicky though. Both actors playing him really did a great job BUT we still don't know jack-shit about Beth! (I mean, we got Zoe but that's not enough.) Did she even get a flashback episode or even a flashback scene? Come on show. Don't do me like this. 

Edited by kissedbyarose
  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post

Miguel was an unsung hero in this one.  He let Rebecca have the space that she needed to process what was happening instead of trying to make her talk like a Pearson.  She needed that time.  He probably needed it too because his best friend’s brother is actually alive, but I love that he understood that Jack wasn’t perfect and that he was hiding a lot of demons.  

Nicky broke my heart into a thousand pieces.  I fast forwarded through most of the scenes with the little boy because I just knew something horrific was going to happen. That poor mother. 

Poor Nicky.  “I never got to tell him” might be the most heartbreaking line of the series.  He didn’t even know his brother was dead. These pushy kids showed up to make him relive his most traumatic moment on top of finding out that his brother has been gone for two decades. Awful. 

Edited by Spencer Hastings
  • Like 19

Share this post


Link to post

Even though it was hard for Nicky to relive and tell his story he now has family... Jack was wrong I think to decide for Nicky amdnall of Nickys family that he was dead, even lying to randall at the Vietnam Memorial.

 

im glad the big three didn’t assume- as would frankly have been understandable given the veneration ofntheir dad- that there’re were good reasons why Nicky didn’t want to be in their lives. There were reasons. Not necessarily good ones. And I think Nicky would absolutely have shot himsef- I don’t think that was the first time he’d considered it, given his speech about how haunted he is by the woman crying. 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Customize font-size