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I wonder why this forum got vaulted. it's an active show, with at least nominal traffic during the season. 

Odd admin choice. And discouraging. 

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Yes, the final season just started and we were chatting about the last episode all week. Frustrating. 

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Was so excited to stumble on the new episodes.  Catching up tonight.  I thought the show had been cancelled.

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6 hours ago, zillabreeze said:

Was so excited to stumble on the new episodes.  Catching up tonight.  I thought the show had been cancelled.

I believe this is the final season. Hopefully it makes up for S4, whatever happened there. 

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23 hours ago, whiporee said:

I wonder why this forum got vaulted. it's an active show, with at least nominal traffic during the season. 

Odd admin choice. And discouraging. 

 

10 hours ago, Glory said:

Yes, the final season just started and we were chatting about the last episode all week. Frustrating. 

I agree, especially since we know this is the last season. It would have been nice to keep the full forum for another two months and then move it to the vault after the finale.

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S5.E2 The Pin in My Grenade

Quote

Jimmy and Gretchen reveal that they're forgoing a traditional wedding, opting instead for a Courthouse elopement.

Promo:

Clips:

Wedding dream book:

Wedding powwow:

Right hook:

Original air date: 1/16/19

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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Count me in as one who was completely charmed by "The Intransigence of Love".   Blew me right back to one of the happiest times in my life, with the guy who was my Great Romance.  We were both in film school, so 100% of the pretentious references just *killed me*.  They got it all so spot-on!  Even the spoofing was as gentle a mocking as this series ever gets.

 

*(Admission: I had read the DirecTV blurb, so I kept thinking, Ummm...is this some new series & they got it wrong?)

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This is the status quo for this show. Let’s please stay on topic of the episodes, not forum business. Thanks. 

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I thought that since there's no forum and therefore no actual threads for it anymore, than everything sort of slips into an "all subjects regarding" category. It's hard to be off topic when there's no actual topic beyond the show itself. 

Pin in My Grenade was solid and funny. I thought the toilet stuff went on a bit long, but it fit. Jimmy's wedding description was funny -- i didn't care for his business meeting, because it's setting up something that i don't think will be all that funny, but it does capture a writer's arrogance (I know I have plenty of it) when it comes to their own work. And I didn't care for the Edgar/Lindsey sex scene at all -- I didn't find it funny, and it actually seemed shoehorned into the show in order to show Keifer bouncing or something. I would have much preferred to see how the baby storyline was working so far, but it's not my show so they can write how they want. 

it did bring up something that makes me worry about these wacky kids -- Jimmy seems to have grown into wanting this kind of normal life -- the kind of thing that sent him over the edge when Gretchen started talking about "a family" on the hilltop -- but Gretchen doesn't seem to be there. For example, Jimmy went home and was willing to face upsetting Gretchen by missing the courthouse time. Gretchen wasn't. I loved his sort of bemused detective work, but the ending had a "I Love Lucy" vibe to it, with Ricky figuring out Lucy's shenanigans and fundamentally being okay with it because that's just who she is. But as the wedding gets closer, I can see real concerns popping up from him -- not just fear of commitment, but actual fear of what a life with a manic hedonistic narcissist would be like. for all his faults, Jimmy's committed to his work -- he's committed to doing something. I don't know that Gretchen is, and as they get closer, i can see that turning into a real issue. 

Edited by whiporee
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I found this one kind of annoying because *obviously* they're not really going to elope in the 2nd episode of the last season and there's going to be a wedding.

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9 hours ago, whiporee said:

I thought that since there's no forum and therefore no actual threads for it anymore, than everything sort of slips into an "all subjects regarding" category. It's hard to be off topic when there's no actual topic beyond the show itself. 

Pin in My Grenade was solid and funny. I thought the toilet stuff went on a bit long, but it fit. Jimmy's wedding description was funny -- i didn't care for his business meeting, because it's setting up something that i don't think will be all that funny, but it does capture a writer's arrogance (I know I have plenty of it) when it comes to their own work. And I didn't care for the Edgar/Lindsey sex scene at all -- I didn't find it funny, and it actually seemed shoehorned into the show in order to show Keifer bouncing or something. I would have much preferred to see how the baby storyline was working so far, but it's not my show so they can write how they want. 

it did bring up something that makes me worry about these wacky kids -- Jimmy seems to have grown into wanting this kind of normal life -- the kind of thing that sent him over the edge when Gretchen started talking about "a family" on the hilltop -- but Gretchen doesn't seem to be there. For example, Jimmy went home and was willing to face upsetting Gretchen by missing the courthouse time. Gretchen wasn't. I loved his sort of bemused detective work, but the ending had a "I Love Lucy" vibe to it, with Ricky figuring out Lucy's shenanigans and fundamentally being okay with it because that's just who she is. But as the wedding gets closer, I can see real concerns popping up from him -- not just fear of commitment, but actual fear of what a life with a manic hedonistic narcissist would be like. for all his faults, Jimmy's committed to his work -- he's committed to doing something. I don't know that Gretchen is, and as they get closer, i can see that turning into a real issue. 

The “topic” is the show itself. Not site business 

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On 1/17/2019 at 9:34 AM, whiporee said:

But as the wedding gets closer, I can see real concerns popping up from him -- not just fear of commitment, but actual fear of what a life with a manic hedonistic narcissist would be like. for all his faults, Jimmy's committed to his work -- he's committed to doing something. I don't know that Gretchen is, and as they get closer, i can see that turning into a real issue. 

This is my fear too.  From the beginning, Jimmy has been shown as the more "stable" of the two and the one who was more interested in a traditional relationship and, proposal notwithstanding, the one who is probably more capable of sustaining a relationship.  As much as I kind of got bored with the Gretchen show over the last couple of seasons, I really hope that they show a bit of growth from her before the marriage.  I know that's not really what the show is about, but I worry that if they aren't endgame, it will be because Gretchen needs Jimmy to jump through hoops and fight for her again.  The writers seem to prefer Gretchen as a character, and I can understand that as she does have more complex issues than Jimmy's arrogance and on again/off again commitment phobia, but I prefer Jimmy in many ways, so I hope that they can work things out in the end on a more equal level.

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I loved Jimmy doing this whole description of his perfect wedding, and the whole bar was in total rapture. Turns out, Jimmy might not suck as a writer! He sure can create a vivid scene. 

I loved last weeks episode, but it was great seeing everyone again for our last call! 

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Is LIndsay getting bigger?

All the wedding stuff is starting to feel like Friends. 

I love the therapist.

Edited by Ottis
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Yeah she is. My Direct TV DVR just updated its software, so episodes I thought had been long gone (and the reruns that Fox had been recently playing) just shows up on my playlist yesterday. i watched the pilot and the end of the second season, and Lindsey's been getting progressively bigger the whole run. She's still gorgeous, but she has gotten larger as the series has gone on. 

Also, "you stayed" has to be one of the sweetest moments in recent TV history. But when you've recently watched that storyline, some of Gretchen's actions get even more concerning. Jimmy did fight for her -- he fought hard for her -- during that storyline, and Gretchen forgot. Watching the end of the Heart is a Dumb Dumb, I realized that might be the only time Gretchen has ever been nice to Jimmy -- as she was guiding his drunken self out of the party, I found myself thinking "that's a kind moment." But there are dramatically few of them. 

I think Falk might be doing a relatively modern idea. i was listening to a crass podcast yesterday because crass podcasts are sort of fun  (BTW, if you like crass girls talking about sex in very fun, specific ways, it's Call Her Daddy. You are forewarned that it is vulgar, and not to everyone's taste or social/societal sensibilities.) and they were talking about Twitter profiles. They were laying out all the things a guy should/shouldn't have in his profile -- selfies, pictures of his car, lots of drunken frat-boy kinds of things. Also specific likes/dislikes of wardrobe selection (no khakis or sports jerseys). After they stopped, they seemed to have a realization that none fo this applies to women. If a "hot" girl DMs a guy, he'll respond. To their credit, they did acknowledge how unfair that was, and having not dated in 20 years, I've no idea whether any of it is true (and I love my khakis). But it had me thinking about this show. Gretchen has done some shitty things to Jimmy, and he's done a very shitty thing to her. But she's never had to atone for it, or make up for it, or even really apologize. It's always just been considered the price for having a hot, sexual girlfriend. I think Falk has a bit of that mindset -- Gretchen is allowed to be awful and demand things from Jimmy, but I don't know if it goes the other way around. They really do seem to be products of a bar culture, and I've got my doubts as to how sustainable that actually is. 

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S05E02:  Pin the Grenade

So Jimmy and Gretchen have impulses for a grand wedding that they've been suppressing.

The hipster veneer gives way to desires they've had since the VHS days.

Jimmy given a chance to bloviate pontificates well past the city hall appointment time.

Gretchen would rather bang her toilet as she put it than make it to city hall.

It's true as someone noted above that they can't have the wedding in the second episode of the final season but is the actual wedding day going to be the climax/happy ending for the series?

Seems too conventional for all the things we've heard about Falk kind of wanting this to be the anti rom com.

OTOH, one or both of them walking away and deriding the institution would also seem too obvious.

Yet for all the games they've been through and the psychological warfare they've put each other through, they're just going to end up married with getting the kids to daycare, then ballet classes, then college prep tutors, etc.?

They won't show this but would they imply that's the direction they're heading as the series signs off?

Or is their marriage going to be more like Lindsay and Paul's marriage?  Or Becca and Vernon's?

 

Because one thing this series has shown is that as messed up as Jimmy and Gretchen were, the married characters were not in any better place.

Or is it that Jimmy and Gretchen were romantics all along, misguided for a long time, but they come to marriage more honestly, not for the wrong reasons as those other couples.  So they get the happily ever after with the kids and the upper middle-class life, because that's true love?

Edited by scrb

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Lindsay throwing the brick was the funniest thing ever. 

I missed Edgar. He's definitely the hot one. Oh Lindzer. You are the dumb one by a mile. Not that any of these folks (besides Jimmy maybe) are particularly bright. 

The "MeToo" thing was funny. "You are a hero." 

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I think they're all emotionally dumb but sorry Linds, you are the actual dumb one. Edgar is slightly naive and kind of clueless but I wouldn't call him the dumb one.

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S5.E3 The One Thing We Don't Talk About

Quote

Jimmy challenges Gretchen to tackle some of the responsibilities that come with being an adult.

Clips:

Gretchen's debt:

Publicist games:

Original air date: 1/23/19

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo

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I love Lindsey and I'm not judging the actress for her weight gain, but I kinda wish they would adjust her wardrobe to her body more, just because it's kind of distracting in scenes now where the kinds of clothes she wears are very obviously not fitting her anymore. They can still her dress her in a flattering way!

Gretchen's immaturity didn't use to bother me so much, but for some reason this season it's getting on my nerves. I sense some growth in Jimmy that's not in her at all. I'm  getting an impression that since they're getting married, Jimmy will basically take care of her now, so it doesn't matter. That kind of bugs me, tbh. I mean, yeah, I guess she really IS lucky- she doesn't have to grow up or take care of herself in the slightest, because Jimmy's there to do it all permanently! 

I mean maybe that'll turn out to be a theme for the season, but kinda doubt it. I think they want a happy ending, and from their perspective, that probably IS the happy ending. It feels paternalistic to me though.

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Although I'm glad that Gretchen ended up having a good talk with her mom, I hated Lindsay pulling the tv cliche of "you have to talk to/reconcile/invite your parents to your wedding!" If you have a toxic relationship with your parents (or anyone else), it's okay not have them in your life. No one should decide how much contact you have with them except you.

The only thing I remember about Gretchen's parents is the episode where Jimmy told them off, which I think was way back in S1. Has Gretchen seen them since then?

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Falk got a little less cute with the foreshadowing in "The Thing We Don't Talk About." Based on his pitch meeting, Jimmy clearly hates Gretchen as much as he loves her, and Gretchen has no desire/inclination to grow up at all. She at least showed why she's considered good at her job, but even in that. She rejected someone who forced her to grow up a bit in order to bring in her best facilitator.  She even ended up on daddy's lap at the end to drive the point home, but was unwilling to tell her parents an unpleasant truth even under the best circumstances. She's still 14, just with a real ID, bigger boobs, unpaid credit cards and something that resembles a job. 

I think Gretchen is hilarious, and one of my favorite characters on TV in the last decade. The producers are right -- her messiness is what's appealing about her, and Aya Cash has been amazing even in little moments. Like just saying "Mommy." But when you combine her lack of responsibility, her unrealistic look at the world, her willingness to let someone take care of (or fight for) her and her untreated manic history, she's eventually going to destroy things. Light her apartment on fire with Christmas lights and a vibrator, that kind of thing. These things aren't outlandish for Gretchen -- they are life. But one of the truisms is you need to be careful before you marry the person who's on a first-name basis with eight bartenders. Crazy may be fun, but it's hard to live with. 

The previews look like we're seeing the rest of the cast a bit. I'm anxious to see how Becca, Paul and Vernon are doing in their new arrangement. 

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ElectricBoogaloo: She went back to her home town for her sister's giving birth, but wound up avoiding actually seeing her parents. Spent the time with a high school friend (Zosia Mamet).

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Query: in all the many, many incidents of substance abuse in which we've seen Gretchen engaged - including a day-long drinking session that included several different types of alcohol - have we ever seen anything make her *ill* before?

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7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Although I'm glad that Gretchen ended up having a good talk with her mom, I hated Lindsay pulling the tv cliche of "you have to talk to/reconcile/invite your parents to your wedding!" If you have a toxic relationship with your parents (or anyone else), it's okay not have them in your life. No one should decide how much contact you have with them except you.

I agree with this. Also, it seems like the good talk came from Gretchen lying to them about who she is marrying, so I'm not sure how good it really was.

 

33 minutes ago, wendyg said:

Query: in all the many, many incidents of substance abuse in which we've seen Gretchen engaged - including a day-long drinking session that included several different types of alcohol - have we ever seen anything make her *ill* before?

She had some blackouts. I'm not sure whether or not we've seen her with the kind of hangover we saw this episode, but I feel like we have.

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6 hours ago, whiporee said:

She at least showed why she's considered good at her job

Is Gretch quitting her job because she thinks Jimmy will take care of her financially? Did they even discuss/agree to that?

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1 hour ago, possibilities said:

I agree with this. Also, it seems like the good talk came from Gretchen lying to them about who she is marrying, so I'm not sure how good it really was.

 

This is the second person that thinks she's marrying Boone - Justina (the Therapist) also thought it was Boone.  I'm waiting for someone else to say his name and he pops up like Beetlejuice...

 

Not that that's a bad thing...I didn't mind Boone, all things considered.

 

Also, can Paul F. Tompkins please go away? Ugh.

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4 hours ago, Jade Foxx said:

Is Gretch quitting her job because she thinks Jimmy will take care of her financially? Did they even discuss/agree to that?

As far as I could tell, any financial talk (Jimmy whoring himself out to Hollywood) was because of the suddenly-introduced plot point of Gretchen having a ton of unpaid credit card debt. She seems to have moved up in the PR company, hence hiring Lindsey as her new Gretchen. 

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55 minutes ago, kieyra said:

As far as I could tell, any financial talk (Jimmy whoring himself out to Hollywood) was because of the suddenly-introduced plot point of Gretchen having a ton of unpaid credit card debt. She seems to have moved up in the PR company, hence hiring Lindsey as her new Gretchen. 

Yeah, it was a new twist, but certainly not and unexpected one. Gretchen has shown herself to be irresponsible in every single aspect we've seen in her -- why would anyone be surprised that she racks up debt without hesitation? 

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1 hour ago, whiporee said:

Yeah, it was a new twist, but certainly not and unexpected one. Gretchen has shown herself to be irresponsible in every single aspect we've seen in her -- why would anyone be surprised that she racks up debt without hesitation? 

Especially since she's from a wealthy family.  I can imagine, in spite of all the control her mother exerted, that credit cards in her life were just things that got paid.

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I didn't understand what was going on with the writers and Edgar. Were they making fun of him? What was the deal with making him eat all the sandwiches?

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Was the character that Jimmy said the network is suppose to hate based on Gretchen?  Network said the character was aspirational in her awfulness.  Jimmy was annoyed that they liked the character.

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On 1/24/2019 at 2:25 AM, ruby24 said:

I love Lindsey and I'm not judging the actress for her weight gain, but I kinda wish they would adjust her wardrobe to her body more, just because it's kind of distracting in scenes now where the kinds of clothes she wears are very obviously not fitting her anymore. They can still her dress her in a flattering way!

I'm wondering if they're dressing her that way deliberately, kind of like what Lena Dunham does to throw her unconventional-for-TV body in the viewers' faces.

The credit sequence features Lindsay's butt sticking out of a car.

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Well, Lindsey has always dressed that way, so I think they don't want to change it now, maybe because it would be too obvious why they suddenly changed her look (and they don't want to offend Kether Donahue or something by implying maybe she shouldn't wear certain things anymore). But still, I just don't see why she can't wear sexy or cute outfits that just fit her better and are flattering to her body type. You can still do that with heavier people.

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The credit card thing was less of a retcon than the same ploy in HOW I MET YOUR MOTHER, but it was still jarring to me. If Gretchen really has 70 credit cards with overdue balances, the banks would be garnisheeing her salary. Yet last year she had paid six months or a year of rent in advance.

It feels like this season they're throwing in a grab bag of things I've seen on other sitcoms. This show has always taken romcom tropes and twisted them to make Jimmy-and-Gretchen's style, but the wedding versions of it seem both less clever and more borrowed. Which is why I ask again: have we ever seen Gretchen's digestive system disturbed by overindulgence before? Because...on so many TV shows a puking woman is pregnant.

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So, is Gretchen quitting her job? Why, because she is going to marry Jimmy? Seems kind of random. On the other hand, I totally buy Gretchen having massive debt, because she has no clue how credit cards work. She has always been irresponsible and bad with "adulting" type things, so while its technically a retcon, I certainly buy it. 

I mean, I guess its good to at least let your relatives know your getting married if you have some kind of relationship with them, but Gretchen doesent owe her awful mother anything. We haven't even seen her parents seen her parents since season one, so beyond an FYI, theres no reason to bother with them. Of course, she lied to them about her future groom anyway...

I hope before the show ends, we get one more appearance of Jimmy's fake mustache!

I am increasingly worried about if this wedding will even happy. Gretchen is an immature flake even on her best days (I love Gretchen, but its true), and Jimmy is very aware of this, and its starting to sink in for him that he is willingly tying his life to this person, even as his career is actually on the rise. I am concerned!

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I took "Find a new Gretchen" to mean find an assistant, since wasn't she sorta the assistant to the person who's office she took over?

And Jesus, I never realized that Kitty was totally Gretch all along.

Edited by TimothyQ · Reason: added another thought about Kitty...
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S5.E4 What Money?

Quote

Jimmy unexpectedly receives a large advance and must fend off all his "friends" who just want a piece of the pie.

Promo:

Clips:

Jimmy and the drone:

Abuelita miracle:

Lindsay the publicist:

Original air date: 1/30/19

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo

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What is it with this show and random cliffhangers? Ugh. I literally shouted, "wait, what?!" to no one in the house, lol. 

The replacement Honey Nutz cracked me up. Good to see Vernon and Becca again (she's still The Worst). 

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41 minutes ago, starriepie said:

Ugh. I literally shouted, "wait, what?!" to no one in the house, lol. 

Same! I gasped and said "no" to no one.

It was a good twist but I wish they gave us a time frame for how far in the future its going to be. I kind of thought maybe it was a bit too on the nose, their looks when Gretchen said that they might be turning into grown ups might have been foreshadowing enough.

I feel bad for the fate of that beautiful audi

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Well, fuck. 

Funny episode -- I laughed a lot. Gretchen and the cum stuff was just flat out laughter -- Aya plays her so damn well with the mixture of playful and nasty. I wish they had explained what was going on with Lindsey's master plan, but I guess there's time. Paul and Becca must have some sort of relationship because he told her pretty quickly about Jimmy's advance, but she's clearly not pregnant and she and Vernon are in bad financial straits. Also good to see Sam and Shitstain again, though I didn't care for the new Honey Nutz. 

I've got a really bad feeling about Gretchen, though. Jimmy getting out of her banged up car instead of his own meant something -- I don't think he'd be driving it unless he had a reason.  

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13 hours ago, whiporee said:

've got a really bad feeling about Gretchen, though. Jimmy getting out of her banged up car instead of his own meant something -- I don't think he'd be driving it unless he had a reason. 

Bad feeling about Gretchen - how so?

Chekov’s car accident? 

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I think the depression's gonna get her. If she had an accident, Jimmy wouldn't be driving her car, he'd be driving his own that means something to him, too. If  they broke up, I don't think Jimmy would keep it from her because he gave it as a gift -- that wouldn't fit the code we've seen from him so far -- and you know Gretchen would keep it. So if he's driving her car, he must have a reason to be doing so, and my guess is that it's to remember her or keep close to her or something along those lines. 

I could see a situation where she just vanishes. i could see one where she tries to kill herself and either succeeds or fails but ends up vegetative (I think that would be problematic, because they've done a nice job of showing depression as debilitating but not necessarily desperate. But, at the same time, Gretchen continues to be untreated and actively so. So she might get sick -- the pregnancy idea (from her throwing up last week) might kill her in childbirth or a reaction to a miscarriage. I don't think she'd head to Marie Calendars  this time, because she's invested in "growing up" and "family."

So now that I've written it out, I'm guessing she hits another deep round and when she get out of it she leaves without a word, just like him. 

Edited by whiporee
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On 1/25/2019 at 4:33 PM, iMonrey said:

I didn't understand what was going on with the writers and Edgar. Were they making fun of him? What was the deal with making him eat all the sandwiches?

It sure seems like PFT is trying to give Edgar an eating disorder. 

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On 1/30/2019 at 9:09 PM, starriepie said:

What is it with this show and random cliffhangers? Ugh. I literally shouted, "wait, what?!" to no one in the house, lol. 

I actually said, "About damn time." Assuming that their relationship ends, one way or another. And I'm hoping that Jimmy owns the house (and I suppose the car, though it looked pretty beat up).

On 1/27/2019 at 6:23 PM, tennisgurl said:

I am increasingly worried about if this wedding will even happy. Gretchen is an immature flake even on her best days (I love Gretchen, but its true), and Jimmy is very aware of this, and its starting to sink in for him that he is willingly tying his life to this person, even as his career is actually on the rise. I am concerned!

I don't love Gretchen, and what she has become the past season or two, I would run away from as fast as possible. I agree that Jimmy may have the pangs of growing up, and what that means, and Gretchen isn't anywhere close. And he is realizing it. 

But dude, deposit the damn check and quit carrying it around. You will still have the money!

Edited by Ottis
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1 hour ago, Ottis said:

But dude, deposit the damn check and quit carrying it around. You will still have the money!

I thought the same thing. When he put the check on the table and then got up, I was convinced someone was going to just snatch it and run away. Deposit that check and then think about what you want to do with the money while it's safely in your account!

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