The West Wing - General Discussion

[Moose135]

18 minutes ago, blondiec0332 said:

OMG. I consider myself pretty savvy about politics and I did not know that.  Thank you Moose.

In their printed material, they use "EMILY’s List" so it's a little more obvious then when it is just spoken aloud.

[Bastet]

I was already an EMILY's List supporter when that episode aired, and as soon as Toby said "that girls group with the stupid name", I knew that was going to be what he was referring to (because, though I generally like Toby, that is unfortunately very much the kind of thing he'd say).

I thought it was clunky that they had C.J. explain the acronym, but if so many viewers weren't familiar with it, I guess the writers knew what they were doing.

[Brookside]

On 8/6/2020 at 10:40 AM, Moose135 said:

I know I've said it before, but maybe not here - I watched the entire series from day one, and have watched the DVDs a million times. Until I received a fund raising solicitation from them a couple of years ago, I had no clue that "Emily" was an acronym for "Early Money Is Like Yeast" I just thought it was the name of the woman who started the group.

As a woman, I'd rather not think about yeast unless it's in the context of bread baking.

[caitmcg]

14 hours ago, Brookside said:

As a woman, I'd rather not think about yeast unless it's in the context of bread baking.

That’s the comparison meant by EMILY's List, the yeast that raises the dough. Early money is like yeast to raise...

[Bastet]

C.J. explained it right there in the scene.  Twice.

Toby: He likes the work that you did with that girl's group with the stupid name.
C.J.: EMILY's List?
Toby: Yes.
C.J.: "That girl's group with the stupid name"?
Toby: Yes.
C.J.:  EMILY's List -- Early Money Is Like Yeast.
Toby: Yeah.
C.J.:  It helps raise the dough.
Toby: I get it.
C.J.: They raise money for women candidates. "Early money is like yeast, it helps raise the dough."  For the candidates.
Toby: I really do get it.

Receiving major donations early in a race attracts other donors, but most of those initial, big donations go to male candidates.  Thus, EMILY's List was born (in the mid-80s, I think, although I didn't hear about it/become a donor until the early '90s) to help jumpstart funding the campaigns of pro-choice female Democrats.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Bastet

[CailynA]

rewatching almost random episodes as I spend my last few days of "spring break" HA before going back to work/school next week. Honestly I usually stick with rewatching the Sorkin years but I did start at Election night part 2, don't know why, just did, and watched through the end and enjoyed it more than I remembered. Now going back to see CJ become CoS which I both love and hate.

[blondiec0332]

18 hours ago, CailynA said:

rewatching almost random episodes as I spend my last few days of "spring break" HA before going back to work/school next week. Honestly I usually stick with rewatching the Sorkin years but I did start at Election night part 2, don't know why, just did, and watched through the end and enjoyed it more than I remembered. Now going back to see CJ become CoS which I both love and hate.

I also enjoy the last season.  I'm a Jimmy Smits fan so right off the bat liked Matt Santos.  I'm a political junkie so watching the campaign and debate was right up my alley.  If only real life politics could not be such a blood sport.  Sigh.

[BW Manilowe]

 

[TV Diva Queen]

Since I"m running out of TV to watch, I started Season 1 last week....now on S2Ep3.  I diligently watched the original run....WHY HAVE I NOT WATCHED THIS OVER AND OVER??  Glad I'm back though.  

[oakville]

I am watching the Season 4 Holy Night episode. Zoey shows up at the White House with a snobby french aristocrat boyfriend.

Did the show ever disclose why Zoey broke up with Charlie ?

[Kohola3]

7 minutes ago, oakville said:

Did the show ever disclose why Zoey broke up with Charlie ?

I don't believe so.  I think it was mostly because Charlie was so busy.  Too bad, I liked them together.

[theredhead77]

Holy carp guys! I saw this today and was hoping it would spark some conversation and am SO!EXCITED! to see this forum is still going! I guess I'll be signing up for an HBO Max trial.

https://deadline.com/2020/08/the-west-wing-reunion-hbo-max-1203022462/

Quote

 

Aaron Sorkin is getting The West Wing gang back together for the first time in 17 years with a special for HBO Max.

Martin Sheen, Rob Lowe, Dulé Hill, Allison Janney, Janel Moloney, Richard Schiff and Bradley Whitford are reuniting with Sorkin and Thomas Schlamme for A West Wing Special to Benefit When We All Vote.

The special will feature a theatrical performance of Hartsfield’s Landing, an episode from the NBC drama’s third season that featured Sheen’s President Barlet playing chess against Sam (Rob Lowe) and Toby (Richard Schiff), while the Chinese are playing war games in the Taiwan Strait and Josh (Bradley Whitford) is nervous about the 42 votes in a remote New Hampshire town’s election, which always predict the winner of that state’s primary.

 

 

[newsjunkie]

Reminder if you are old school and have regular HBO through cable, you already have access to HBO Max.

[Kohola3]

I would kill to be able to see that!  Alas, no HBO in my life.

[theredhead77]

11 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

I would kill to be able to see that!  Alas, no HBO in my life.

They have a 7 day free trial. That is what I intend to sign up when this airs.

[BW Manilowe]

On 8/25/2020 at 6:39 PM, theredhead77 said:

Holy carp guys! I saw this today and was hoping it would spark some conversation and am SO!EXCITED! to see this forum is still going! I guess I'll be signing up for an HBO Max trial.

https://deadline.com/2020/08/the-west-wing-reunion-hbo-max-1203022462/

 

This is the 2nd time I’ve written this. I went to get a link to add to the original post, the page refreshed & wiped out the original somehow.

The upcoming 30th Anniversary Issue of Entertainment Weekly (in the linked article they call it “the September issue”, without giving a more accurate issue date, weekly vs. monthly) has cast members from the show on the cover, plus an article (linked) with those cast members mostly reminiscing about working together on the show & talking about the upcoming HBO Max special. There also is a separate photo gallery of the cast.

At the top of the linked article is a pic of the participating cast in a high school gym setting, with some of the cast behind (presumably mock) voting machines & others standing in line like they’re waiting their turn to use 1 of the machines. Hung on 1 of the walls is a pair of retired basketball jerseys from the school they’re supposed to be voting at. Look  VERY CAREFULLY at the names on those jerseys. I’m just saying. If you look on the other wall, under the eagle, there’s a plaque of some kind which appears to have a pic of Martin, before he went gray, on it.

There also are *3* videos embedded in the article, including a Zoom call (the middle video) with Sorkin, Schlamme, & the cast participating in the HBO Max special. When you watch these videos, DO NOT stop watching at the first sight of the Entertainment Weekly logo. Most, if not all, of these big videos are really a series of little videos edited together, with the cast reminiscing on various things. So keep going until (I think) it cycles back to a clip you’ve already seen.

Unlike previous cast reunions, I’m happy to say Rob Lowe is participating in this 1! But since the HBO Max Special‘s a theatrical performance of the “Hartsfield’s Landing” episode (in which Sam & Jed play chess, while China plays war games in the Taiwan Strait & Josh awaits the results of voting in a small New Hampshire town which traditionally casts its equally small number of votes first in the nation, shortly after midnight on Election Day), & Rob’s still alive, it just wouldn’t be the same with somebody else playing Sam, if it could be prevented (unlike having to recast Leo McGarry since John Spencer died almost 15 years ago... already). Anyway, in 1 of his video clips, Rob refers to this having been his first TV show. Lest he forget (& he usually doesn’t), his actual first TV show was the short-lived ABC sitcom A New Kind of Family, where he played the teenage son of a character played by Eileen Brennan.

Edited August 26, 2020 by BW Manilowe
To add a couple of strategically placed words and a new sentence.

[BW Manilowe]

VIDEO: From Entertainment Weekly—The West Wing Cast Remembers John Spencer and Kathryn Joosten

[theredhead77]

@BW Manilowe I am so thankful you took the time to write that all out again! Thank you!

[BW Manilowe]

From USA Today: Another Article on the HBO Max Reunion Special (Still worth reading though).

[oakville]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

In a later episode, they do talk about Bartlett having a "lonely landslide."  Think of it like this: Nixon won 49 states and over 60% of the popular vote in 1972, but Democrats retained control of the House and Senate.  In fact, Democrats gained Senate seats that year.  

Wow!. I didn't know that.

[ProudMary]

Wow, Allison Janney: Blonde Bombshell! 

 

[BW Manilowe]

4 hours ago, ProudMary said:

Wow, Allison Janney: Blonde Bombshell! 

 

She must be really platinum blonde because I thought it looked more like she’d gone gray from some (mostly farther) distances.

[Kohola3]

Wow, they have all aged pretty well.  So good to see them back together. 

Please don't make Toby smile, that would just not be in character!

[oakville]

I started watching Season 5. Why are so many scenes filmed in the dark or with little light ? Was there a budget cut ?

I don't understand why Josh & Leo would agree to nominate Bingo Bob as VP. Couldn't they fight harder to get someone better than him ?

[BW Manilowe]

The video @ProudMary posted upthread is the 1 I referred to in my post about the upcoming Entertainment Weekly TWW stuff, where Rob Lowe refers to the show as his first television show, though it wasn’t. It was actually a short-lived ABC sitcom called A New Kind of Family; he was 15 at the time he was in this show. That info is verifiable here.

[Moose135]

3 hours ago, BW Manilowe said:

Rob Lowe refers to the show as his first television show, though it wasn’t. It was actually a short-lived ABC sitcom called A New Kind of Family;

It ran half a season before being cancelled 40 years ago. I'm not surprised Lowe doesn't remember it - or doesn't acknowledge it, hoping other people don't remember it.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Moose135

[BW Manilowe]

10 hours ago, Moose135 said:

It ran half a season before being cancelled 40 years ago. I'm not surprised Lowe doesn't remember it - or doesn't acknowledge it, hoping other people don't remember it.

He actually has acknowledged it in the past, at least once & maybe more, which is why his saying TWW was his first show surprised me.

[Kohola3]

2 hours ago, BW Manilowe said:

He actually has acknowledged it in the past, at least once & maybe more, which is why his saying TWW was his first show surprised me.

First show as an adult? Or maybe a first full season? Or of substance? Who knows.

[Bastet]

7 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

First show as an adult? Or maybe a first full season? Or of substance? Who knows.

Right, and who cares?  Maybe he said more and it was edited.  Maybe, and more likely, he was simply focused on the point that this was his first show, proper - as an adult, that went somewhere, and after many years in movies - and he didn't realize at the time but does now all the ways in which it was a wonderfully different experience than the typical one.

[Kohola3]

On a totally shallow note, Rob has aged very, very well.  

[Guest]

Please take a moment to review the site's politics policy linked here.  I've had to remove a number of posts that violated this policy.

[caitmcg]

22 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

On a totally shallow note, Rob has aged very, very well.  

I came of age in the ’80s, so I’m of exactly the age that was meant to find him a heartthrob in his Brat Pack days. Nope, he didn’t do anything for me. I didn’t see TWW when it first aired, so my first experience of him on TV was in Brothers and Sisters, and I thought damn, he has really aged into himself well.

[Kohola3]

8 minutes ago, caitmcg said:

 I didn’t see TWW when it first aired, so my first experience of him on TV was in Brothers and Sisters, and I thought damn, he has really aged into himself well.

It's interesting to note that Sam Seaborn was originally supposed to be the central character of TWW with Martin Sheen in a peripheral role.  But as the show progressed with such amazing actors, it changed course entirely.

[Moose135]

3 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

It's interesting to note that Sam Seaborn was originally supposed to be the central character of TWW with Martin Sheen in a peripheral role.

After making the greatest character entrance in the history of television, how could they not use him more?

"I am the Lord your God. Thou shalt worship no other God before me."

[Kohola3]

2 minutes ago, Moose135 said:

After making the greatest character entrance in the history of television, how could they not use him more?

 

It was a stunning moment.  I was hooked.

[Bastet]

That was quite the memorable entrance.

I didn't think Mary Marsh deserved an apology to begin with, so once she really showed her ass in that meeting, it was so gratifying for the president - whom they'd been bending over backwards to distance Josh from - to turn out to be a guy who'd come in and tell everyone to get their fat asses out of his White House.

[oakville]

I started watching Season 6 . I am surprised that President Bartlett picked CJ to be his Chief of Staff. Wouldn't Josh being a more logical pick ?

Josh had more knowledge of politics than CJ .

 

[BW Manilowe]

15 hours ago, oakville said:

I started watching Season 6 . I am surprised that President Bartlett picked CJ to be his Chief of Staff. Wouldn't Josh being a more logical pick ?

Josh had more knowledge of politics than CJ .

 

Josh could also be rude & undiplomatic to the wrong people, as seen in the Mary Marsh incident; he could also be a hothead. I don’t think you want a rude, undiplomatic, hothead dealing with the kind of people a White House COS has to deal with; besides the staff that is.

[PeterPirate]

Of course, Josh became Matt Santos's COS.  The show could have been quite entertaining with Josh messing up from time to time, and also sparring with Donna over which Santos would get top billing and such.  

 

Then again, the show did end with The Napkin.  Bartlet For America, yo.

[Driad]

When a new chief of staff was needed, there was a lot of discussion on the mailing lists etc. Many people agreed that Toby, Josh, and CJ would not be great choices, and in the real world probably someone from outside would have been brought in.  But it was a TV show and viewers liked the main cast, so the writers chose CJ as the least bad choice.

[Kohola3]

Let me just throw out there, I am seriously in love with Lionel Tribbey.

[blondiec0332]

13 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Let me just throw out there, I am seriously in love with Lionel Tribbey.

That is probably due to John Larroquette portraying him.

If we are talking about West Wing lawyers my favorite was Oliver Babish. Which i probably due to Oliver Platt portraying him.

 

 

[Bastet]

18 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Let me just throw out there, I am seriously in love with Lionel Tribbey.

I change the specifics as needed to paraphrase him whenever I hear someone essentially say we should be tolerant of intolerance:

Quote

As long as Justice Dreyfort is intolerant toward gays, lesbians, blacks, unions, women, poor people, and the First, Fourth, Fifth, and Ninth amendments, I will remain intolerant toward him.

Also, should I somehow ever find myself pissed off while holding a cricket bat in my hands, I'm sure I will declare that I will kill people today.

[CailynA]

On 9/4/2020 at 6:53 PM, oakville said:

I started watching Season 6 . I am surprised that President Bartlett picked CJ to be his Chief of Staff. Wouldn't Josh being a more logical pick ?

Josh had more knowledge of politics than CJ .

 

I remember being totally shocked the first time I watched but on my most recent rewatch it was so obvious just how hard they worked to set it up the CJ was the right choice

[oakville]

I just finished watched the season finale of season 6, 2162 votes. I can't believe that Santos picked Leo to be his VP. It's not realistic.

Leo kept pressuring Santos to drop out of the race. Why would Santos pick him ?

[Moose135]

2 hours ago, oakville said:

Leo kept pressuring Santos to drop out of the race. Why would Santos pick him ?

To quote Aaron Sorkin - albeit from Sports Night, rather than The West Wing...

If you're dumb, surround yourself with smart people. If you're smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you.

[caitmcg]

On 9/8/2020 at 9:03 PM, Moose135 said:

To quote Aaron Sorkin - albeit from Sports Night, rather than The West Wing...

If you're dumb, surround yourself with smart people. If you're smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you.

I mean, that’s kind of what Russell, the dumb guy, did (or tried to do).

[Kohola3]

Leo said something in a similar vein when trying to hire Ainsley Hayes.

The President likes smart people who disagree with him. He wants to hear from you.

[CheshireCat]

On 9/4/2020 at 7:53 PM, oakville said:

I started watching Season 6 . I am surprised that President Bartlett picked CJ to be his Chief of Staff. Wouldn't Josh being a more logical pick ?

Josh had more knowledge of politics than CJ .

But then I often felt like they made her deliberately ignorant so that they could explain things to the viewer. I mean, would she really not have known about the census?

Regardless of how likely it would have been, I thought it was a pity how little they made of it once CJ was CoS. A missed opportunity, in my opinion but not surprising for how the show as written overall and not surprising for when it happened. Some episodes felt like those in the White House were just waiting for their time to be up. Maybe it would have been better if they had only dealt with the campaign in the last season and a half or so.

 

On 9/9/2020 at 12:03 AM, Moose135 said:

To quote Aaron Sorkin - albeit from Sports Night, rather than The West Wing...

If you're dumb, surround yourself with smart people. If you're smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you.

I agree with the general sentiment of that statement. But Leo was much older than Santos, had had a heart attack and a history of drug and alcohol abuse, all things which could have made him more prone to developing an illness or die early. Considering that one of the most important jobs of the VP is to be able to take over as President, I don't think anyone would have chosen Leo regardless of how smart he was. Make him an advisor but don't give him the job that requires him to have a pulse more than anything else.

[Bastet]

On 9/8/2020 at 9:03 PM, Moose135 said:

To quote Aaron Sorkin - albeit from Sports Night, rather than The West Wing...

If you're dumb, surround yourself with smart people. If you're smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you.

 

19 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Leo said something in a similar vein when trying to hire Ainsley Hayes.

The President likes smart people who disagree with him. He wants to hear from you.

That really worked for me in the Isaac/Jeremy example on Sports Night, but I thought Bartlet's idea to hire Ainsley - and Leo agreeing after initially thinking he meant as a prank on Sam - was stupid.  Having an intelligent person who wants to achieve the same overall goals as you but disagrees on how those are best achieved is wonderful inner circle strategy.  Hiring someone who's smart but whose fundamental view of how society should function is antithetical to yours is pointless.  Communicate with them and try to find some common ground in order to make deals with them, sure, but add them to the team who are busting their asses to make things better?  No.

"Well, what the hell made you think I wouldn't scream where there are people?!"
"I took a shot."

The way C.J. and Sam shriek Leo's name in unison after that is terrific.  Because, yeah, dumb idea.

But then I love that once Ainsley is there, C.J. stands up against the opposition to her that is rooted in sexism, not what she says/does/stands for.