The West Wing - General Discussion

[Kohola3]

1 hour ago, BW Manilowe said:

And it moves EXCLUSIVELY to HBO Max

Which is $15 a month. Pass. Cheaper to by the DVDs.

[supposebly]

On 11/30/2020 at 8:26 AM, ifionlyknew said:

And I might be in the minority but I could not stand Ainsley Hayes.

Thank you! I thought I was missing something but to me she wasn't a real character just someone to be brought in to say: Look how clever! Defying expectations! The whole thing was stupid. 

To be honest, in retrospect, the female characters don't hold up well. Even with C.J. I cringe occasionally. And while I never quite liked Josh I used to appreciate what he brings to the table. But on my recent rewatch I actively disliked him. 

I still like Abby. I still don't understand what she was thinking in medicating her husband but I get it. She panicked. They both did. Stockard Channing conveyed that mixture of bravado, panic, arrogance, and denial exquisitely.

[ifionlyknew]

4 minutes ago, supposebly said:

Thank you! I thought I was missing something but to me she wasn't a real character just someone to be brought in to say: Look how clever! Defying expectations! The whole thing was stupid. 

To be honest, in retrospect, the female characters don't hold up well. Even with C.J. I cringe occasionally. And while I never quite liked Josh I used to appreciate what he brings to the table. But on my recent rewatch I actively disliked him. 

I still like Abby. I still don't understand what she was thinking in medicating her husband but I get it. She panicked. They both did. Stockard Channing conveyed that mixture of bravado, panic, arrogance, and denial exquisitely.

I'm in the middle of season 3 and I just finished that story arc.  Abby was thinking as a wife first and doctor second. 

I think season 2 and 3 are the best seasons.  The writing was always top notch throughout the Sorkin years but these episodes it was just near perfect.  And there were laugh out loud lines in almost every episode.  I cracked up when riding to the rally to announce Bartlett running for a second term Abby tells Jed she is leaning towards voting for him.  It might not sound funny but it was.

[PeterPirate]

2 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Which is $15 a month. Pass. Cheaper to by the DVDs.

Except that I have two sets for Season 3, and they are both missing the second disc because I've watched Bartlet For America many, many times.  HBO has a bunch of excellent movies that Netflix doesn't, so I'm going to stick with it for a while.

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by PeterPirate

[Guest]

12 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

Except that I have two sets for Season 3, and they are both missing the second disc because I've watched Bartlet For America many, many times.  HBO has a bunch of excellent movies that Netflix doesn't, so I'm going to stick with it for a while.

 

I'm probably going to sign up for HBO Max now that it's available through the Fire stick and Warner Brothers is putting all their 2021 movie releases on there.  West Wing is just a bonus and definitely not a sign that I'm too lazy to deal with DVDs.

[CheshireCat]

20 hours ago, supposebly said:

I still like Abby. I still don't understand what she was thinking in medicating her husband but I get it.

It makes sense from that point of view but why didn't whoever diagnosed Bartlett originally tell him that he needs to be treated by a neurologist/specialist? (My best friend gets treated by a neurologist who specializes in MS). Every attack is different; when my friend has an attack then her doctor determines whether she had one first and then decides how much steroids she gets. (And if the attack persists after the initial dose, she gets more). My friend also gets MRIs ever so often to monitor the inflammation centers.

The way they portray it on the show makes it seem like MS can be treated like diabetis. Doctor or not, unless Abby has experience with MS, I don't think she was able to give her husband the best care available. That doesn't fit with how she freaked out when he decided to run for a second term, though.

[BlackberryJam]

I can’t stand the Sam exit story and always resented Will Bailey for existing. I can only tolerate him in S7 when CJ dragoons him into being a punching bag for the press.

[ifionlyknew]

6 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

I can’t stand the Sam exit story and always resented Will Bailey for existing. I can only tolerate him in S7 when CJ dragoons him into being a punching bag for the press.

I like the actor Josh Malina but he always seems to play the same character.  His character on Scandal David Rosen could have just as easily been Will Bailey.  Even his BIg Bang Theory character college president Siebert wasn't all that different.  

I didn't actively dislike Will but to me he was just a poor substitute for Sam Seaborn and I could never get past that.  It was blatantly obvious the only reason Will Bailey the character existed was because Rob Lowe the actor left the show.  

[CheshireCat]

I always thought that it was strange that they wrote in Will and then basically wrote him out by putting him into the VP's office. It felt like they were breaking it up too much; a character in this place, a character in that place etc. Of course, it was the worst in S7 when they split it between two campaigns and the WH.

[SoMuchTV]

I currently, for reasons I don’t need to defend to anyone, and may or may not have anything to do with Dash and Lily, am rereading From The Mixed Up Files of Mrs Basil E Frankweiler, set in about 1967, and the main character is a girl named Claudia, who has 3 brothers. She definitely grew up to be Claudia Jean, right?

ETA: And it has just been realized, by me, that I may be picking up on the speech cadences of a particular White House counsel.

Edited December 12, 2020 by SoMuchTV

[PeterPirate]

On 12/11/2020 at 4:21 PM, SoMuchTV said:

I currently, for reasons I don’t need to defend to anyone, and may or may not have anything to do with Dash and Lily, am rereading From The Mixed Up Files of Mrs Basil E Frankweiler, set in about 1967, and the main character is a girl named Claudia, who has 3 brothers. She definitely grew up to be Claudia Jean, right?

I remember that book.  Claudia did like to mishandle carved artwork.   

Also, from Take This Sabbath Day: 
Bartlet - I'm the leader of a democracy. People have spoken. The courts have spoken.

And, from Message Of The Week:
Bruno - You have a lock on the Electoral College.

[ifionlyknew]

I'm re watching season 7 and John Spencer doesn't look good. In hindsight I guess his death shouldn't have been a surprise.  Still makes me sad though.  

I'm enjoying the campaign.  Vinick lying to the reverend who was demanding Vinick promise to appoint anti choice judges to secure the evangelicals. votes.  Santos not wanting to be seen as just the Latina candidate.  So much more interesting than that damn leak story.

[SoMuchTV]

On 12/11/2020 at 7:21 PM, SoMuchTV said:

I currently, for reasons I don’t need to defend to anyone, and may or may not have anything to do with Dash and Lily, am rereading From The Mixed Up Files of Mrs Basil E Frankweiler, set in about 1967, and the main character is a girl named Claudia, who has 3 brothers. She definitely grew up to be Claudia Jean, right?

 

On 12/14/2020 at 2:09 PM, PeterPirate said:

I remember that book.  Claudia did like to mishandle carved artwork.  

Oh my goodness.  I first read that book when I was about Claudia's age.  I thought she & her brother had such a cool adventure! Reading it now, it's a parent's worst nightmare!  (For anyone not familiar, it's a story about a sister and brother - ages 12 and 9 - who run away from home and hide out - and get involved in a mystery - at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC.  For over a week!)  I can't imagine what her family was going through!

[ProudMary]

Best thing you'll see on Twitter today. Allison Janney is all that and more!

 

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, ProudMary said:

Best thing you'll see on Twitter today. Allison Janney is all that and more!

 

Wow! So much more than “Flamingo”!

 

[ifionlyknew]

I finished my re watch last night.   With just over 24 hrs to spare.  I'm going to miss it on Netflix.  It was nice  having it there anytime I wanted to pull up a favorite episode to watch.  I know it's coming to HBO Max which I do have but it feels like an end of an era. Which I guess is fitting since the show itself concluded.

There was a noticeable difference after Sorkin left.  It became about things happening outside the White House.  What made the early episodes so wonderful was that core group of characters and watching them do their jobs and be friends.  The final episode had some nice touches and it did briefly feel like the show I loved so much.  

 

[PeterPirate]

Yup.  It's on HBOMax (and off Netflix) now.  I'm taking this opportunity to watch the first four Christmas episodes.  Yo Yo Ma rules!

Edited December 25, 2020 by PeterPirate

[Kohola3]

I never celebrate a Christmas since In Excelsis Deo without thinking of hmeless vets. And that's a good thing, no one should forget.

[BW Manilowe]

So far, it’s still on Apple TV (which I currently have a free year of thanks to recently buying a new iPhone)/iTunes. So you can still add your favorite eps/the whole series to your preferred Apple device. I also heard, the other day, that 1 of the streaming devices (I think either Roku or Fire, but I forget which) which wasn’t carrying HBO Max was to start carrying it either this past or this coming Thursday.

[oakville]

Was there ever a chance of the West Wing being renewed so that viewers could see the first year of the Santos Administration ?

[BW Manilowe]

On 1/3/2021 at 8:12 PM, oakville said:

Was there ever a chance of the West Wing being renewed so that viewers could see the first year of the Santos Administration ?

Honestly, I don’t think so. They had to start cutting the budget around S6 & definitely in S7 (which is why there was so much focus on the campaign trail & so many characters who started out as Bartlet staffers, ride or die, left the White House & his administration to help get the next guy from their political party elected to succeed Bartlet, & then didn’t appear in every episode of the season like they had previously because they were trying to focus on the Vinick campaign 1 week, the Santos campaign the next, as I remember. They had to cut the budget to even get an S7, & the original cast members who were still with the show by then had to agree to not appear in at least 1 ep apiece that last season, in order to keep the cast salaries (they’re normally paid per ep) down. The longer a show remains on the air, the more it costs to produce; especially when it comes to cast salaries, which start out at a certain level & get higher every so often, depending on how big the actor is, to start with, & how long they stay with the show/the show stays on the air. And, in the case of a show like Hawaii Five-0, which (perhaps unexpectedly, to many) ended a pretty successful, 10-season run last April, if the show’s filmed completely on location, the longer you film on location, the more expensive it gets to film as well. But you pretty much need to film something set in Hawaii, or another tropical location, actually in Hawaii (or the other tropical location involved) because it’s hard to duplicate Hawaii successfully on the Mainland or anywhere else outside of Hawaii or the other tropical location.

[PeterPirate]

From 17 People:

Toby - For 90 minutes there was a coup d'etat in this country.

[PeterPirate]

Also, from In The Shadow Of Two Gunmen:

Hoynes - Coach, I want to congratulate you and your team in the NCAA on a great season last year. I know you had four starters returning so I'm confident...

Several Secret Service Agents come storming inside. 

Agent - Excuse me! Everyone stay where you are. Mr. Vice President, would you come with us please?

The agents surround Hoynes and escort him outside.  

......

 

Then there's this:

From In The Shadow Of Two Gunmen:  
Hoynes - I'm going to federalize the Virginia and Maryland National Guards.

and

Danny - I want to know who was in charge.

And, from 17 People:
Toby - The Vice President's authority was murky at best.

Edited January 16, 2021 by PeterPirate

[PeterPirate]

On 12/18/2019 at 5:36 PM, PeterPirate said:

From 17 People:

Toby - You don't have to break the law to get served with articles of impeachment.

 

 

[Cetacean]

Just caught the movie Dave on cable and recognized a much younger Anna Deavere Smith as the manager of a homeless shelter for kids.  I think Nancy McNally was one of my favorite characters especially her interaction with Admiral Sissymary.

 

On 1/6/2021 at 5:04 PM, PeterPirate said:

Toby - For 90 minutes there was a coup d'etat in this country.

Margaret : Can - can I just say something, you know, for the future?

Leo McGarry : Yeah.

Margaret : *I* can sign the President's name. I have his signature down pretty good.

Leo McGarry : You can sign the President's name?

Margaret : Yeah.

Leo McGarry : On a document removing him from power and handing it to someone else?

Margaret : Yeah. Or, do you think the White House Counsel would say that was a bad idea?

Leo McGarry : I think the White House Counsel would say that's a coup d'etat.

Margaret : I'd probably end up doing some time for that.

Edited January 18, 2021 by Cetacean
system hiccup

[Cetacean]

President Bartlet – There's a promise I ask everyone who works here to make: Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful and committed citizens can change the world. Do you know why?

Will – It's the only thing that ever has.

[PeterPirate]

From Posse Comitatus:

Leo - I'm not gonna have trouble saying the Pledge of Allegiance tomorrow.

[Anela]

On 12/26/2020 at 2:37 AM, BW Manilowe said:

So far, it’s still on Apple TV (which I currently have a free year of thanks to recently buying a new iPhone)/iTunes. So you can still add your favorite eps/the whole series to your preferred Apple device. I also heard, the other day, that 1 of the streaming devices (I think either Roku or Fire, but I forget which) which wasn’t carrying HBO Max was to start carrying it either this past or this coming Thursday.

I received an iPad for Christmas, so I have Apple TV free for a year. I hope it's still there. 

[BW Manilowe]

22 hours ago, Anela said:

I received an iPad for Christmas, so I have Apple TV free for a year. I hope it's still there. 

It is.

[ProudMary]

From And It's Surely to Their Credit:

General Barrie: I'll be telling my story to Tim Russert.

CJ Cregg: No, I don't think you will, General.

General Barrie: I'm sorry?

CJ Cregg: I said I don't think you will. I notice among your many decorations is the Distinguished Conduct Service Medal. You're wearing it now as well as in numerous photographs including some taken with enlisted men in the field. You won it while on temporary duty with the Navy's USS Brook. The thing is: The Brook was never fired on and never shot its guns. Right now, and in photographs, you're wearing a medal you never won. How does that usually go over with The Boys?

[lurkerbee]

Farewell, Albie Duncan.

[BlackberryJam]

5 minutes ago, lurkerbee said:

Farewell, Albie Duncan.

You're the one I like. 

[PeterPirate]

[CheshireCat]

The West Wing is currently keeping me company while I decorate cookies (I really appreciate that the show's focus is the dialogue rather than the action) and I watched Election Night and Process Stories last night and it struck me that after Abby was so mad at her husband for running for a second term because of his MS, she seems totally fine with him drinking alcohol hours after he had an MS attack. From what I know from my best friend, he should also have gotten a cortisone injection for the inflammation but even if he didn't because he didn't want anyone to know and it was only a mild attack, I doubt that he would have been up for the kind of celebration he and Abby were having. It was as if the symptoms of the attack had magically disappeared in just a couple of hours. And he shouldn't have been drinking either way. A sip of champagne maybe, but vodka? I don't think so.

Also, that they killed off Simon gets me every time. I don't know if Mark Harmon was starting NCIS and couldn't have stayed but I liked the chemistry between them and CJ really would have deserved to have a guy like Simon.

And I just adore the song they're closing the S3 finale with.

[CheshireCat]

I didn't watch West Wing when it first aired, but watching the episodes now, the Hoynes thing seems totally random. Was there a reason they wrote out Tim Matheson/Hoynes or did they simply do it so the Speaker becomes later President?

At the end of S4 when Zoe goes to France, Bartlet is portrayed as the over-protective father when it comes to Secret Service protection but I kind of understand: there was a shooting, then an agent gets killed and then his daughter gets abducted. That must be the worst performance by the Secret Service ever or someone within the agency really doesn't like Bartlet. If I were him, I probably wouldn't be sure if I can trust the agents either 😉
In all seriousness though, I find it hard to believe that all of that happens and no one would blame the Secret Service and demand leadership change.

If the Bartlet team has a freak-out about the Speaker becoming Acting President, why does not a single one of them insist that he be referred to as Acting President (which he is). The Speaker is just discharging the duties of the President as Acting President, so if the Bartlet team is so concerned about the optics, each time the Speaker is referred to as President, they should yell back Acting President. (Which could have been fun, if done right).

Why is the Republican legislative leadership meeting in the White House to discuss who becomes the next Speaker? Wouldn't they do that in their offices since the Acting President shouldn't have a say in that? (Interestingly enough, when they dealt with the line of succession on Madam Secretary, they said that the President Pro Tempore would resume his position once his time as Acting President was over. I wonder if it's different for Senators or if it's not entirely clear what would happen).

I never know what to make of the Acting President. On the one hand, he seems opportunistic and trigger happy, on the other hand, he's sympathetic in so far, that he would not hesitate to avenge Zoe's death. He's a weird guy/character.

I always love the talk Toby has with his twins. It's so heartfelt and real. And I don't know why but his "babies come with hats" always makes me laugh.

I also always feel that the kidnapping story was not a good choice. It put a rift between Bartlet and Abby, or at least, it feels like that to me, and there's the entire aftermath that they have to deal with and that, I think, weighs the show down. I know that it's said that Rob Lowe leaving/Joshua Malina coming on to the show is what was the beginning of the end but as someone who didn't watch it originally, I'd say it was the kidnapping story. It just changed things, took away things that sort of tied it all together, like the fun scenes between Abby and whoever she had a scene with. And even if I think that Zoe is a spoiled brat in S4, she, too, brought some lightness to the show as her scenes hardly ever were political.

Oh, and completely irrelevant but why is it already/still dark at 6:30 in DC in what I'm assuming would be late spring?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

I never know what to make of the Acting President. On the one hand, he seems opportunistic and trigger happy, on the other hand, he's sympathetic in so far, that he would not hesitate to avenge Zoe's death. He's a weird guy/character

I think they do with him what they do with a lot of the opposing characters- you bear about him and how bad he is and you see some examples that back that opinion up. But then they also show a little of his perspective or ways that he’s not completely wrong and you realize your initial view was formed completely by his opposition.

[Moose135]

On 2/21/2021 at 5:10 AM, CheshireCat said:

I didn't watch West Wing when it first aired, but watching the episodes now

Let's forget the fact that you're coming a little late to the party and embrace the fact that you showed up at all.

 

On 2/21/2021 at 5:10 AM, CheshireCat said:

I always love the talk Toby has with his twins. It's so heartfelt and real. And I don't know why but his "babies come with hats" always makes me laugh.

I love that scene!

 

On 2/21/2021 at 5:10 AM, CheshireCat said:

I also always feel that the kidnapping story was not a good choice.

Sorkin was on his way out - whether willingly or not is open to debate - and it may have been his farewell gift to the network.

[Guest]

I'm curious where others fall on this question - what are the worst three West Wing episodes? 

My personal 3:

1) 90 Miles Away

2) Access

3) The Warfare of Genghis Khan

There are other episodes I don't like but will generally watch because they set up other episodes, but these ones I find myself skipping just about every time.

[Bastet]

On 2/21/2021 at 2:10 AM, CheshireCat said:

I always love the talk Toby has with his twins. It's so heartfelt and real. And I don't know why but his "babies come with hats" always makes me laugh.

I didn't like the Andi/Toby/pregnancy storyline, but I loved the line delivery on "babies come with hats".

2 hours ago, deaja said:

I'm curious where others fall on this question - what are the worst three West Wing episodes?

1. Isaac and Ishmael
2. Isaac and Ishmael
3. Isaac and Ishmael

[CheshireCat]

3 hours ago, Bastet said:

I didn't like the Andi/Toby/pregnancy storyline, but I loved the line delivery on "babies come with hats".

Yeah, it was one of those things that I felt was completely random.

It's interesting, the first time I watched, I watched in order but sporadically and I thought I missed some things. Now that I'm more or less binge-watching, I realize that some things simply just happened and I didn't miss anything.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Bastet said:

6 hours ago, deaja said:

 

1. Isaac and Ishmael
2. Isaac and Ishmael
3. Isaac and Ishmael

Okay. You win. I don’t even count that as an episode because it is so bad. 

[SandyToes]

On 12/11/2020 at 4:21 PM, SoMuchTV said:

am rereading From The Mixed Up Files of Mrs Basil E Frankweiler, set in about 1967, and the main character is a girl named Claudia, who has 3 brothers. She definitely grew up to be Claudia Jean, right?

Oh, my gosh!  That book!  My 4th grade teacher read that to us, and I loved it.  (Have read it many times since, and fell in love with art history). And yes, she absolutely DID grow up to be Claudia Jean! 

[PeterPirate]

On 2/13/2021 at 2:25 AM, CheshireCat said:

And I just adore the song they're closing the S3 finale with.

The show's pinnacle moment, in my opinion.

 

On 2/22/2021 at 9:37 AM, deaja said:

I'm curious where others fall on this question - what are the worst three West Wing episodes? 

My personal 3:

1) 90 Miles Away

2) Access

3) The Warfare of Genghis Khan

I would replace Warfare of Genghis Khan with The Long Goodbye.  

 

On 2/13/2021 at 2:25 AM, CheshireCat said:

Also, that they killed off Simon gets me every time. I don't know if Mark Harmon was starting NCIS and couldn't have stayed but I liked the chemistry between them and CJ really would have deserved to have a guy like Simon.

As I understand it, Harmon's performance as Simon caught the attention of the creators of NCIS.  I suspect the same dynamic worked for Clark Gregg, who went from being Agent Casper on TWW to Agent Coulson in numerous movies and TV shows based on Marvel comics.

 

[Cetacean]

10 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

The show's pinnacle moment, in my opinion.

 

A stunning finale, it has stayed with me all of these years.  Perfect writing, perfect juxtaposition of an assassination.

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

I would replace Warfare of Genghis Khan with The Long Goodbye.  

Oh wait. This is an excellent point as well.

I'm going to go ahead and revise:

1) 90 Miles Away

2) Isaac and Ishmael

3) The Long Goodbye

[BlackberryJam]

I never enjoyed NSF Thurmont and the whole "The Mighty US can solve the problems of the Middle East!" storyline. 

[CheshireCat]

On 2/21/2021 at 7:47 AM, deaja said:

I think they do with him what they do with a lot of the opposing characters- you bear about him and how bad he is and you see some examples that back that opinion up. But then they also show a little of his perspective or ways that he’s not completely wrong and you realize your initial view was formed completely by his opposition.

I never noticed that. Although, I think for the Acting President, they're kind of going back and forth.

I do wonder if a former Acting President would really be included in presidential stuff like attending a former President's funeral together with all the other former and current presidents. Seems a bit over the top.

 

15 hours ago, deaja said:

3) The Long Goodbye

I didn't think it was a bad episode per se as in, the acting was good. It just wasn't necessary and had little to do with the White House. Did someone from the show want to raise awareness for Alzheimer's?

Likewise the MS of the President. There are times when I wonder why they gave him MS. Especially since there are episodes when it feels like they only did superficial research and didn't bother with the more in-depth details.

[Guest]

17 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

I never enjoyed NSF Thurmont and the whole "The Mighty US can solve the problems of the Middle East!" storyline. 

I typically skip it.  It would probably make my "Worst 10" list, but doesn't quite make it into the "Worst 5."

[BlackberryJam]

4 hours ago, deaja said:

I typically skip it.  It would probably make my "Worst 10" list, but doesn't quite make it into the "Worst 5."

Isn't that the problem of a "Worst Episodes" list? Those are just the ones I've skipped on rewatch and attempted to banish from my memory.

[Guest]

Okay, let's do worst per season instead. That might be easier.  

Season 1: 20 Hours in LA (I do like and watch this episode, but Season 1 is so full of great episodes!)

Season 2: The Stackhouse Filibuster - the whole premise was so ridiculous

Season 3: Isaac and Ishmael and I don't think I need to elaborate

Season 4: The Long Goodbye

Season 5: Gaza or Access, though there are several other contenders

Season 6: Ninety Miles Away

Season 7: The Wedding