S08.E04: Strangers in Paradise

[Crazy Bird Lady]

32 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I only watched the first half of this episode so far.. but the only thing Ill agree with Luke about is that it was pretty gross that Kate wasn't gonna shower that night and was gonna go to sleep all sweaty and gross... especially since that's the first day they met. But what I really want to know is why a guy like Luke would sign up for the show if this is how he's going to act. You won't kiss her, want to sleep separately, are pretty much repulsed and can't even pretend to put in any effort. Even if he came on the show in hopes that it would create more business for his speed dating, at least put on an act so people don't end up hating you. I just don't  see his end goal.. If you're picky, don't sign up.

I can think of a reason why Kate didn't want to shower that night. She had absolutely no reason to be "into" Luke, since he's such a douche --and showering involves taking off all your clothes, wrapping yourself up in just a towel, and then (usually) switching to night clothes. Kate might only have brought sexy nighties, since it was her "honeymoon"!

I did notice, later on, that Kate was wearing "Granny nightpants". I wonder where they came from? They certainly didn't look like anything a woman would take along to Costa Rica with a man!

Edited January 16, 2019 by Crazy Bird Lady

[humbleopinion]

Remember MAFS edits with a heavy hand and we are being manipulated.

If Jas, Stephanie, Kate and Kristine seem more in the driver seat then that is the story line.

 Keith seem authentically passive.

Will is a man of fewer words than Jasmine.

Luke is giving Kate rope to hang herself so he can look like a good guy.

AJ's medicine must have kicked in on the honeymoon....so he is medicinally subdued....

[LennieBriscoe]

But Kate wanted Lukewarm NOT to sleep on the couch but with her in bed. So..... Frankly, I'd want to shower just because! Wedding attire, stress at being on TV, marrying a stranger, the whole schmear of the day,...! 

I wonder as I wander....Was Lukewarm punking us all, re: his proclaimed love of sloths? Was he perhaps shading Kate because he finds her fat (he wouldn't think in more polite terms) and ergo, slothful? 

Edited January 16, 2019 by LennieBriscoe

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, red12 said:

I felt so sorry for Keith. His face just fell as she shoveled that "protect and provide" bull. She didn't want to get married. She wanted to be rescued from life.

You are not an "independent woman" when your plan is to just coast until a man comes along to support you. He can hire a made to make sure the house is clean but, not be responsible for anything else. It's as if her vision of being a wife is living as a glorified teenager who gets to have sex while "daddy" husband does all of the heavy lifting.

The experts continue to just be glorified casting agents for a train wreck reality show.

Lord girl, if you’re looking for a sugar daddy, you sure picked the wrong show. I did notice when he asked about her cooking, she smiled sheepishly. I think her idea of housewife is being pampered. Most sahms work very hard. She does seem to want to be taken care of but does she know that is a two way street? 

Again, I am glad this is being brought up. I knew the storyline last season that Ricky Bobby wanted Danielle to stay home with the kids was bullshit, particularly since he was very proud of Danielle being the higher earner on unfiltered. Jamie Otis has always wanted to be home with the kids but has to continue working since Doug has the financial stability of tissue paper.

Edited January 16, 2019 by qtpye

[cardigirl]

10 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

But Kate wanted Lukewarm NOT to sleep on the couch but with her in bed. So..... Frankly, I'd want to shower just because! Wedding attire, stress at being on TV, marrying a stranger, the whole schmear of the day,...! 

I wonder as I wander....Was Lukewarm punking us all, re: his proclaimed love of sloths? Was he perhaps shading Kate because he finds her fat (he wouldn't think in more polite terms) and ergo, slothful? 

https://www.realstylenetwork.com/celebrities/2012/02/kristen-bell-loves-sloths/

https://jezebel.com/dax-shepard-and-kristen-bell-take-credit-for-sloths-pop-1563775528

Sloths are popular!

[Neurochick]

11 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Poor Jasmine, she can't resist the opportunity to bare her arms.  Too bad they're a little thick for that.

Whoa, I better wear a burka then, God forbid I offend people with my "thick" arms.

I can't stand Kate's voice, to me it's vocal fry plus cigarettes plus whiskey.  No thank you.

I don't think Jasmine really understands what she wants.  As I said before, she probably looks at many black women who have to do all of the heavy lifting, and figures that since she's married, the man should do it.  The problem is that everything comes with a price.  If the man is doing everything, that means he has total control in the relationship.  Jasmine has a fairy tale vision of what she wants, based on what she saw with her parents.  

Edited January 16, 2019 by Neurochick

[humbleopinion]

Think Puke's rude, diminishing behavior towards Kate was his knee jerk way to show his displeasure to "the experts", the production company and the basic  cable viewing audience that  Kate is not his perfect match.

Kate isn't even a hipster, she's not what he wanted to be matched with so he will separate himself from her...

His smirky smirk barely contains the anger and WTF disappointment.

 So when Kate asked a sloth question he had to grab back his carefully cultivated sloth hook...sloths are his quirky quirk...he has 2 plush sloths..you have NONE...zero plush sloths, Kate...

Sloths are the new sugar squirrels....

Edited January 16, 2019 by humbleopinion

[Empress1]

6 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

https://www.realstylenetwork.com/celebrities/2012/02/kristen-bell-loves-sloths/

https://jezebel.com/dax-shepard-and-kristen-bell-take-credit-for-sloths-pop-1563775528

Sloths are popular!

Luke said he had pictures of them in his room. I remember when the whole Kristen Bell thing broke, I couldn't understand why she was so excited about sloths. I have never given sloths a thought.

[aphroditewitch]

11 hours ago, Yeah No said:

 

Poor Jasmine, she can't resist the opportunity to bare her arms.  Too bad they're a little thick for that.

 

 

So? If a person wants to show their arms, they can. No one has to look at them. 

[cardigirl]

4 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Luke said he had pictures of them in his room. I remember when the whole Kristen Bell thing broke, I couldn't understand why she was so excited about sloths. I have never given sloths a thought.

Then you are not the girl for Luke!  (Or Kristen!)  I kid!  I kid!  :)

[Soup333]

14 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Whoa, I better wear a burka then, God forbid I offend people with my "thick" arms.

I can't stand Kate's voice, to me it's vocal fry plus cigarettes plus whiskey.  No thank you.

I don't think Jasmine really understands what she wants.  As I said before, she probably looks at many black women who have to do all of the heavy lifting, and figures that since she's married, the man should do it.  The problem is that everything comes with a price.  If the man is doing everything, that means he has total control in the relationship.  Jasmine has a fairy tale vision of what she wants, based on what she saw with her parents.  

I thought Jasmine’s arm band was beautiful, especially contrasting her rich skin tone. 

Kate needs someone who (is not Luke obvs) isn’t really focused on the minutia and wouldn’t be bothered by her showering schedule, social smoking and weird speech. 

Poor Jasmine thinks a man has to be a miniature version of her father. An exact replica. This is a wild notion that’s only going to cause problems in her relationships. Her marriage will not be exactly the same as her parents and I bet if she actually walked in her mom’s shoes she wouldn’t want that anyway. 

[LennieBriscoe]

Soup33, I don't think any kind of smoking or "weird speech" qualifies as "minutiae." Rather the opposite, in point of fact! Who wants to spend a lifetime hearing a voice he can't stand, e.g.?!

Sloth "popularity"  and Lukewarm's claims notwithstanding, comments often do double-duty. But maybe LW was being straight-forward. He still completely turned his head away from Kate to speak to "us," the camera. Could he not have enthused to HER, as in, SHARING? "Let me tell you why I like sloths! I once had to do a report on them, and...." (Or: "I follow Dax Shepherd on Twitter, and....").

As for being "boring," Kate is likely walking on eggshells not to add to her husband's obvious and stated "repulsion." What if she adores something not hip, not cool, not Lukey? What if she likes FAST mammals?!

Edited January 16, 2019 by LennieBriscoe

[red12]

21 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Whoa, I better wear a burka then, God forbid I offend people with my "thick" arms.

I can't stand Kate's voice, to me it's vocal fry plus cigarettes plus whiskey.  No thank you.

I don't think Jasmine really understands what she wants.  As I said before, she probably looks at many black women who have to do all of the heavy lifting, and figures that since she's married, the man should do it.  The problem is that everything comes with a price.  If the man is doing everything, that means he has total control in the relationship.  Jasmine has a fairy tale vision of what she wants, based on what she saw with her parents.  

You might be right about her view of black women. That line "based on what she saw with her parents" is key. Most kids have no idea of the actual dynamics of their parent's marriage or really their parents inner workings as individual humans. I would not be surprised at all if her parents marriage did not really work in the fairy tale manner of Jasmine's retelling.

35 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Lord girl, if your looking for a sugar daddy, you sure picked the wrong show. I did notice when he asked about her cooking, she smiled sheepishly. I think her idea of housewife is being pampered. Most sahms work very hard. She does seem to want to be taken care of but does she know that is a two way street? 

Again, I am glad this is being brought up. I knew the storyline last season that Ricky Bobby wanted Danielle to stay home with the kids was bullshit, particularly since he was very proud of Danielle being the higher earner on unfiltered. Jamie Otis has always wanted to be home with the kids but has to continue working since Doug has the financial stability of tissue paper.

I apologize in advance if my comment seemed to imply that SAHM's don't work hard. That was not my intention at all. I was highlighting Jasmine's comment about cleaning as if that is all that should matter for him even if he is in a scenario where he is "working 4 jobs" to pay all of the bills. I know a couple of SAHM's who should be professors in household management and budgeting based on what they are able to accomplish on one income.
 

[Jacsamic]

They need to apologize to Kate and get her away from Luke and send him home.  Hard to watch, or maybe that’s the goal- 

[lids]

The thing about dealbreakers. You can’t have multiple dealbreakers and want to join this show. There’s no way the experts were going to find completely perfect matches for people who couldn’t even find a match for themselves their whole lives. I’ve always been told by married people that what makes good marriages are two people who are willing to forgive and get over themselves. AJ and Stephanie are (so far) a good example of this. She could totally harp on AJ’s unattractiveness and how drunk he was at the wedding, but Steph just wants to be married, so she’s not gonna focus on what could be legitimate dealbreakers until they reach critical levels. AJ could also say she looks old and hasn’t shown much personality, but he’s grateful for what he has in Stephanie.

Luke is too in his head and although I don’t think his remarks about cleanliness or sloths were digs at Kate’s weight, I thought his questioning her on didn’t she want to eat yogurt was borderline. He actually seemed much better this episode and I had hope for them. But then Kate saw the other couples and seemed to reassess their connection which led to her being confrontational (which was totally understandable). You could see him go right back to his pleasant but cold affect: “Ok, ok, I see what you’re saying.” And he literally said, “You really want to talk about this now???” And proceeded to try to blank out of the conversation and not open up. Which leads me to believe he would have rather had the convo off camera - similar to how he must later kiss Kate off camera and tell her he feels dead inside. He probably only shows his true colors off camera.

I personally think the experts are unfairly blamed for everything, but I will say that physically, I don’t understand why they chose Kate for Luke. Hipster men like hipster women who are thin, wear oversized slouchy clothing and very little to no makeup. Kate is pageant pretty. I just don’t understand where she comes from in a Philly casting. And I’m actually surprised she likes Luke. Do southern belles tend to like douchy east-coast surfing posers? It’s so weird.

[LennieBriscoe]

lids, "Forgive and Get Over Yourselves".........

THE new and improved 2019 PTV handbag slogan! Or perhaps for the PTV TEE! Because "Get Over Yourselves" is an awesome message to those judging us from behind, haha! 

[Soup333]

11 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Soup33, I don't think any kind of smoking or "weird speech" qualifies as "minutiae." Rather the opposite, in point of fact! Who wants to spend a lifetime hearing a voice he can't stand, e.g.?!

Sloth "popularity"  and Lukewarm's claims notwithstanding, comments often do double-duty. But maybe LW was being straight-forward. He still completely turned his head away from Kate to speak to "us," the camera. Could he not have enthused to HER, as in, SHARING? "Let me tell you why I like sloths! I once had to do a report on them, and...." (Or: "I follow Dax Shepherd on Twitter, and....").

As for being "boring," Kate is likely walking on eggshells not to add to her husband's obvious and stated "repulsion." What if she adores something not hip, not cool, not Lukey? What if she likes FAST mammals?!

I mean not concerned about the minutia OR her casual smoking OR her weird speech. By minutia I mean her not liking yogurt or her choosing to shower at night. Those shouldn't be dealbreakers unless she worked in a mine or his last name was Yoplait. I get the feeling that every single thing she does is only going to get added to the list of reasons why he hates about her, not matter how insignificant.

[qtpye]

37 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

https://www.realstylenetwork.com/celebrities/2012/02/kristen-bell-loves-sloths/

https://jezebel.com/dax-shepard-and-kristen-bell-take-credit-for-sloths-pop-1563775528

Sloths are popular!

Of course Luke will jump on any hipster bandwagon.

30 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Luke said he had pictures of them in his room. I remember when the whole Kristen Bell thing broke, I couldn't understand why she was so excited about sloths. I have never given sloths a thought.

 

17 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

I thought Jasmine’s arm band was beautiful, especially contrasting her rich skin tone. 

Kate needs someone who (is not Luke obvs) isn’t really focused on the minutia and wouldn’t be bothered by her showering schedule, social smoking and weird speech. 

Poor Jasmine thinks a man has to be a miniature version of her father. An exact replica. This is a wild notion that’s only going to cause problems in her relationships. Her marriage will not be exactly the same as her parents and I bet if she actually walked in her mom’s shoes she wouldn’t want that anyway. 

 

13 minutes ago, red12 said:

You might be right about her view of black women. That line "based on what she saw with her parents" is key. Most kids have no idea of the actual dynamics of their parent's marriage or really their parents inner workings as individual humans. I would not be surprised at all if her parents marriage did not really work in the fairy tale manner of Jasmine's retelling.

I apologize in advance if my comment seemed to imply that SAHM's don't work hard. That was not my intention at all. I was highlighting Jasmine's comment about cleaning as if that is all that should matter for him even if he is in a scenario where he is "working 4 jobs" to pay all of the bills. I know a couple of SAHM's who should be professors in household management and budgeting based on what they are able to accomplish on one income.
 

No apologies needed. I understood what you meant. 

7 minutes ago, lids said:

The thing about dealbreakers. You can’t have multiple dealbreakers and want to join this show. There’s no way the experts were going to find completely perfect matches for people who couldn’t even find a match for themselves their whole lives. I’ve always been told by married people that what makes good marriages are two people who are willing to forgive and get over themselves. AJ and Stephanie are (so far) a good example of this. She could totally harp on AJ’s unattractiveness and how drunk he was at the wedding, but Steph just wants to be married, so she’s not gonna focus on what could be legitimate dealbreakers until they reach critical levels. AJ could also say she looks old and hasn’t shown much personality, but he’s grateful for what he has in Stephanie.

Luke is too in his head and although I don’t think his remarks about cleanliness or sloths were digs at Kate’s weight, I thought his questioning her on didn’t she want to eat yogurt was borderline. He actually seemed much better this episode and I had hope for them. But then Kate saw the other couples and seemed to reassess their connection which led to her being confrontational (which was totally understandable). You could see him go right back to his pleasant but cold affect: “Ok, ok, I see what you’re saying.” And he literally said, “You really want to talk about this now???” And proceeded to try to blank out of the conversation and not open up. Which leads me to believe he would have rather had the convo off camera - similar to how he must later kiss Kate off camera and tell her he feels dead inside. He probably only shows his true colors off camera.

I personally think the experts are unfairly blamed for everything, but I will say that physically, I don’t understand why they chose Kate for Luke. Hipster men like hipster women who are thin, wear oversized slouchy clothing and very little to no makeup. Kate is pageant pretty. I just don’t understand where she comes from in a Philly casting. And I’m actually surprised she likes Luke. Do southern belles tend to like douchy east-coast surfing posers? It’s so weird.

As a woman of color, I respect that Jasmine probably has a loving relationship with her father and that she values herself enough not to be taken advantage of. However, I hope she realizes what comes along with being totally financially dependent on someone else.

[aphroditewitch]

14 minutes ago, lids said:

The thing about dealbreakers. You can’t have multiple dealbreakers and want to join this show. There’s no way the experts were going to find completely perfect matches for people who couldn’t even find a match for themselves their whole lives. I’ve always been told by married people that what makes good marriages are two people who are willing to forgive and get over themselves. AJ and Stephanie are (so far) a good example of this. She could totally harp on AJ’s unattractiveness and how drunk he was at the wedding, but Steph just wants to be married, so she’s not gonna focus on what could be legitimate dealbreakers until they reach critical levels. AJ could also say she looks old and hasn’t shown much personality, but he’s grateful for what he has in Stephanie.

Luke is too in his head and although I don’t think his remarks about cleanliness or sloths were digs at Kate’s weight, I thought his questioning her on didn’t she want to eat yogurt was borderline. He actually seemed much better this episode and I had hope for them. But then Kate saw the other couples and seemed to reassess their connection which led to her being confrontational (which was totally understandable). You could see him go right back to his pleasant but cold affect: “Ok, ok, I see what you’re saying.” And he literally said, “You really want to talk about this now???” And proceeded to try to blank out of the conversation and not open up. Which leads me to believe he would have rather had the convo off camera - similar to how he must later kiss Kate off camera and tell her he feels dead inside. He probably only shows his true colors off camera.

I personally think the experts are unfairly blamed for everything, but I will say that physically, I don’t understand why they chose Kate for Luke. Hipster men like hipster women who are thin, wear oversized slouchy clothing and very little to no makeup. Kate is pageant pretty. I just don’t understand where she comes from in a Philly casting. And I’m actually surprised she likes Luke. Do southern belles tend to like douchy east-coast surfing posers? It’s so weird.

It is simple. They matched Kate and Luke in hopes of getting drama and tears. I'm not sure she does like Luke. I think she is trying to like him because they were matched together but his behavior is  clearly becoming a turn off for her. 

[OnTime]

5 hours ago, Meowwww said:

Huh....in the scenes in the kitchen with all the couples, there’s a bag of Lays and a bag of Doritos over by the coffee pot that keeps coming and going.  Sometimes it’s there, then in the next scene with the same couple, it’s gone...

yeah, I noticed that also!

The same type of things happen when they are eating meals, with the plates and glasses (empty, full, half way).

The production on this show has always been terrible.

[OnTime]

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I think there's a lot of fault to find with the experts and show but I don't think this is on them. If they asked her if she smokes or if it was in the application and she said no, there's not much else for them to do. 

Kate tells the experts she is not a smoker. She doesn't tell them she only does smoke "once in a while". I don't know what else the experts are going to do. They may have even asked her if she smokes "once in a while" and she said no.

Does anyone remember when Doug in Season 1 smoked and lied about it?

Not sure if that was "producer drama" or not. Seems hard to believe, it just happened the day they were filming.

[LuvMyShows]

13 hours ago, shouldbedancing said:

I really wish they would put like... a huge emoji over Luke's face every time he's on screen. I can't stand it. Looking at him. His face! He just looks like such a huge douche (and acts like one). 

Yes indeed!  I didn't have that feeling last week, but when I was watching this week, and happened to have it paused on Lukewarm, I really couldn't stand looking at his face.  

12 hours ago, aphroditewitch said:

Jasmine has a partial point. If one partner is earning more than the other, then they might need to contribute more to the bills. 

 

12 hours ago, Adeejay said:

Unless I am mistaken, I think Jasmine meant that the split should be 60-40 or 65-35 instead of 50-50. Perhaps that is how it works with her parents.

But I don't think she said anything about one partner earning more, and carrying a greater load, or even based at all on what they earn.  She was going on traditional roles and came up with a number based on gut feeling and preference.  Interesting theory about the parents; sounds plausible.

 

4 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I don't think any decisions should be made about how bills are split at this point because they don't know how much their spouses make and how much their living expenses are. They need to do budgets - blanket statements don't work. If Jasmine makes twice as much as Will does, a 50/50 split doesn't make sense. But I'm definitely not for Will paying all the bills and Jasmine using her salary as fun money, which sounded like what she was suggesting.

And I was also with Will when he was like, so traditional gender roles mean you do all the housework, then? (These are issues the experts should have screened for.)

100% to all of this.  How on earth could you decide on a major financial decision with literally 0% of the necessary information (meaning, data/facts not just preferences)?  

I get the sense that Jasmine has genuinely never considered that her views align with traditional gender roles, so even if the experts had asked that generic question, she would have answered that she doesn't believe in them.  I also don't think that Jasmine has considered that having a man pay 100% of the bills (which was her initial preference) may have made sense when the man brought in 100% of the income.  But she presumably has a job already.  So why in the name of sweet baby Jesus, should the man arbitrarily potentially double his financial burden (once all the joint bills are considered, plus maybe a house if he didn't have one already) while she reduces hers to zero, especially when she had also apparently not considered Will's point about her doing all the housework?

12 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I think Jasmine took Will's remark as indicative of his not being a good "protector" after she felt he left her hanging during the bike incident.  She was already wondering whether he had her back after that, and then when he made it clear that he wanted everything split down the middle she took it to mean he was looking out for himself but not for her.  I have to wonder what it's like to be married but essentially on a second date with someone.  To her ears it would be like a guy insisting that they split the check from their first date down the middle.  To her that would mean he's not really into her or he's too cheap to be a gentleman.

Absolutely, I think that's how she was perceiving it.  Hopefully once they discuss it at another time, she'll be less emotional and more rational.

12 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I actually think Luke's answer on "Unfiltered" as to how bills should be split in a relationship was the best one.  He said something about how things are rarely 50-50 in any relationship and you just work them out as you go along, which is what I would say.

Gotta disagree, since I think it's a very Lukewarm answer that would serve him immensely well when he wants to weasel out of something or unilaterally change course midstream.

[SnackyCakes14]

When Jasmine asked Will about typical gender roles, the smile instantly fell off her face when he asked if she knew how to cook.  It's clear she believes in typical gender roles for men, but not herself.  I liked that Will called her on it and even seemed skeptical about her unenthusiastic agreement to cook dinner every night.  It's one thing to agree to step up financially if your spouse is going back to school, or as a couple to decide to have one parent stay home with small children, or even to use one spouse's income for vacations and splurges. Way too early in the relationship to all ready decide, or demand to be provided for, and way too complicated to just agree to 50/50.

Luke, Luke, Luke. Kate may be boring and basic, but his condescension and constant comments about her choices are driving me insane.  Commenting on when she takes a shower, commenting about the yogurt, commenting about her politely asking a question about the sloth, and then commenting on how much coffee she had that day and making some crack about she must not believe in moderation.  Anyone who wants to be with me best not come for my coffee intake or there will be problems.  Luke, I see you and your passive agressive, condescending  comments.

[LuvMyShows]

12 hours ago, PityFree said:

 I was surprised they got rid of the morning after brunches with the families.  I also thought it was kind of awkward to have them sitting at the kitchen table for breakfast. On the morning after your wedding, you should have breakfast in bed. 

I really liked the brunches, and at that stage in their relationship, it really helps to have the families better acquainted with each other than they would be able to get at the reception.

10 hours ago, silverspoons said:

Lets consider that 7 dates, if you don't like someone enough to kiss them by date 7 it should be over (unless you are a Duggar). 

LOL!

[ShowFan]

3 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Sloths (and all other kinds of wildlife) are fascinating

THANK YOU! Sloths and all wildlife are super cool! This is literally the only thing I like about Luke. I was even happy he said “Sanctuary” and not “zoo” whatever it ended up being in the end. Sloth animals are cool! Sloth humans - not cool. 

[Ohwell]

11 hours ago, silverspoons said:

I don't see what some other see between Jasmine and Will. I don't see chemistry. I also wonder most about him, how at 37, a college educated man with a good job who wants to be married and lives in a major city has not found someone. He and Dave (from Dallas) both are financial analysts maybe this is the common issue. I remember Dave wanted Amber to pay half his HOA fee. I can see splitting bills but Dave was nickel and diming everything , even sink counter space! I hope it is not the same with Will and Jasmine. 

Will did suggest that he should pay the mortgage, which I think in his mind is the main expense the husband should pay.  Maybe he was expecting Jasmine to pay for things like utilities and food?    

[Kdawg82]

13 hours ago, Soup333 said:

But she’s approaching this the wrong way. If she said she thinks they should live off one income and use the other for a down payment/travel/retirement/lifetime membership to a sloth exhibit maybe Will wouldn’t have freaked out so much.

This was my thought EXACTLY! Why didn't Jasmine articulate the point of "I'll shoulder household chores like cooking and cleaning.  I'll buy clothing and toiletries for the home as well as groceries . YOU pay utilities and mortgage and the remainder of my $$ goes to savings." 

*not that any of this matters as all couples in this sham of a marriage show will split in the next year as usually happens. Not a spoiler- just a formula 

[Ohwell]

Now that we know that Kate is a smoker, I wonder if she smoked before the wedding due to nerves, and Luke detected the stale smell when she opened her mouth.  Couple that with her having the personality of used kleenex, I can see why he's not over the moon with joy in this relationship.  I think he wanted to see the sloths because he thinks she is a sloth, especially with the not showering thing.  However, it's sad that he can't treat her with kindness and respect until the time comes when he can end the marriage.   

[Ilovepie]

Costa Rica! I am so jealous - it's on my bucket list to visit. Definitely seems like an upgrade in Honeymoon destinations for this show......moving on........

Luke is an asshat, but Kate would drive me crazy too, and btw, has she ever seen this show??? Lying about smoking has caused some of the biggest drama in the history of this show! Not cool at all. Unlike Derek though, she did say (in her monotone, drugged sounding voice) that she would give it up forever if it bothered him, so there is that. I would think he would be more into her since he's into sloths because she talks soooooo sloooooowwww.......

Not sure how you can defend your "fierce independent woman" stance and still expect your sugar daddy to take care of you. I thought Will was very calm and mature when discussing it with her. I still think she is really pretty, but her attitude might change my mind on how attractive I find her.......

Even though I think they are a total mismatch in the long run, I enjoyed Kristine trying to whip Keith into shape, and him playing Happy Wife, Happy Life. Maybe Steph can send AJ her way to help with that Dad Bod.....

Speaking of Steph and AJ, even though he's extra, I find them delightful. Look at that - two mature adults just getting along! I like that she was like, so what if he's not buff, it's not the most important thing, and him saying, I'm not the most in shape guy, but it's ok - she likes me for who I am. Possibly the most honest, sweetest words ever spoken on this show.

That dinner was like One of these things is not like the others.........very awkward watching Kate and Luke with the others. I am glad she at least voiced her needs/wants even though this relationship is DOA. He is not attracted to her in the least. If I was her, I would not want that gross beard anywhere near me either!

[Soup333]

12 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Now that we know that Kate is a smoker, I wonder if she smoked before the wedding due to nerves, and Luke detected the stale smell when she opened her mouth.  Couple that with her having the personality of used kleenex, I can see why he's not over the moon with joy in this relationship.  I think he wanted to see the sloths because he thinks she is a sloth, especially with the not showering thing.  However, it's sad that he can't treat her with kindness and respect until the time comes when he can end the marriage.   

Seems plausible. And coupled with the fact that she's not his physical type (according to what he told the experts), Luke was turned off at first sight and will never warm to Kate. *See what I did there?* 

[bichonblitz]

21 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Will did suggest that he should pay the mortgage, which I think in his mind is the main expense the husband should pay.  Maybe he was expecting Jasmine to pay for things like utilities and food?    

I could be wrong but I thought Jasmine asked him if he intended on paying the mortgage and he scoffed at that? 

I also think it depends on what the incomes of the couple is. I'm just throwing numbers out here but let's say one earns $150,000 per year and the other earns $40,000 per year. Should everything be split 50/50 then? That is a huge factor and they need to work out a plan of the financial responsibilities and incorporate cooking, cleaning, shopping in to that. If their income is close to the same amount then they should split the bills 50/50.  

Regarding Kate, maybe she smokes much more than the occasional social cig. Maybe she's lying about that and is a regular pack a day person. The preview shows how upset she is that Lukewarm told her he was repulsed by kissing her so it's possible he felt that kissing her is like kissing an ashtray? I guess we will find out next week. If he said such a cruel thing he better have a good explanation for it! Wasn't there a big deal made out of a couple a few season's ago when the wife found out the husband smoked, she didn't know about his smoking, then it and she was totally turned off by it? I think she was a flight attendant or something like that.  I don't remember their names. 

[OnTime]

20 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I think he wanted to see the sloths because he thinks she is a sloth,

What is the deal with sloths?

First The Bachelor and now this show. Can anyone explain?

[Ohwell]

6 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

I could be wrong but I thought Jasmine asked him if he intended on paying the mortgage and he scoffed at that? 

I'll have to rewatch, I could be wrong. 

[Neurochick]

12 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

Luke is an asshat, but Kate would drive me crazy too, and btw, has she ever seen this show??? Lying about smoking has caused some of the biggest drama in the history of this show! Not cool at all. Unlike Derek though, she did say (in her monotone, drugged sounding voice) that she would give it up forever if it bothered him, so there is that. I would think he would be more into her since he's into sloths because she talks soooooo sloooooowwww.......

Not sure how you can defend your "fierce independent woman" stance and still expect your sugar daddy to take care of you. I thought Will was very calm and mature when discussing it with her. I still think she is really pretty, but her attitude might change my mind on how attractive I find her.......

Yes, I'm not feeling the Kate love.  I'd hate to have to spend more than a few hours with her, with that vocal fry/drugged out/smokey voice.  I wonder if she smells like cigarettes (ewww!).

Here is the problem with Jasmine.  You can't come across as an "independent woman" and the second you get married become a little girl, wanting to be taken care of.  That's a classic bait and switch.  And though I do understand her probably seeing many black women having to shoulder 100% of the burden, she should have explained that to Will.

[Kdawg82]

2 hours ago, aphroditewitch said:

So? If a person wants to show their arms, they can. No one has to look at them. 

I find it so sad that Joan Rivers *of allll te surgeries she had in life* insisted on covering her arms. She had a thing about never showing them. I guess there wasn't a surgery for it. Folks should be proud of the body God gave them. At age 14 /15 I was hanging out with two girlfriends and they were talking about all their boyfriends or whatever and I never had a guy even like me so I felt down .To end off their convo , one told me I had "chubby arms." I went home crying. I was always fit and active and not at all chubby.  F the haters! Be you, people! Be proud! One life, one body! Take care of it and it'll take care of you.  

Other note: I think A.J. is just a genuine guy who wants his love for his lady to grow organically and without producer interferance. That's prob why he will eventually flip out with all this nonsense. I like their relationship. She has a nice body and she accepts A.J. for who he is so far and I enjoy it.

[OnTime]

17 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

I also think it depends on what the incomes of the couple is. I'm just throwing numbers out here but let's say one earns $150,000 per year and the other earns $40,000 per year. Should everything be split 50/50 then?

No, it should only be split 50/50 if they both made the same amount.

For the $150,000 vs $40,000 that should be more like 80/20.

Edited January 16, 2019 by OnTime

[Ilovepie]

10 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Here is the problem with Jasmine.  You can't come across as an "independent woman" and the second you get married become a little girl, wanting to be taken care of.  That's a classic bait and switch. 

Yes to this. It sounds like she described herself as an independent woman to the experts, but now she wants someone to take care of her. This kind of seems like Monet and Vaughn from season 1 in reverse. She thought she wanted traditional gender roles, but she was too independent for that to work (also, Vaughn was gross). Now we have someone describing themselves as independent but then wanting a man to take care of her.......

[aphroditewitch]

In general I find that few people on reality shows have personalities that come across as interesting on tv. They might be fine in real life but unless someone has a bigger personality like Stephanie or Kristine, an annoying personality like AJ, or just a major jerk like Luke, in general they will come across as boring. Kate, Will, Jasmine, and Keith don't seem super interesting. IMO, it is due to them not being actors and then the way they get edited. 

[humbleopinion]

Will wants a life partner not a housemaid and cook...he  isn't impressed with Jas who miscalculated with thinking she has any leverage at this point.

Will is self contained...cooking and cleaning for himself...he  needs a Kristine who will work hard in her career and then they can share the household chores...and the fruits of their labor.

The only redeeming quality Jas has is she doesn't have baby fever....

Jas said that she didn't feel protected by Will when she ran her ATV off the trail...why is he responsible for her stupidity?

 Jas, figure out how to drive the ATV and keep your pathetic accusations to yourself.

Red flag Will.....

Will, you don't have to take care of Jasmine like her father took care of her mother.

You need to wake Jas up to the reality of a shared financial responsibility for a home and family...if not, then start the slow walk to the door....

[humbleopinion]

Basket of Insufferables:  Puke, Jasmine, Keith, Kate

Gonna give a Second Chance to Make a First Impression: AJ

Neutral Corner: Will, Kristine, Stephanie

This is going to be a looong season....

[gonecrackers]

Haven’t been through viewing this yet, but on the sloths- we did an encounter with a fennec fox (foxes are a fav for us) at a small zoo last summer. It had to be booked in advance. There were other animals that could also be booked & one was a sloth. The handler said the sloth had to be booked “months” in advance because sloths “are a thing right now”.

On the smoking - I don’t like Luke, but for me, just the lie at the start gate would be a huge problem. Too many experiences have taught me those who lie & justify it, tend to be dishonest in general. 

[Soup333]

42 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

On the smoking - I don’t like Luke, but for me, just the lie at the start gate would be a huge problem. Too many experiences have taught me those who lie & justify it, tend to be dishonest in general. 

Maybe she lied so she wouldn't be knocked out of the running to be chosen for this wonderful opportunity. Or maybe she thought it wasn't a big deal since she doesn't smoke regularly. As someone who clearly doesn't mind being around the smell of cigarettes, maybe she didn't think it'd be a dealbreaker if she had one on occasion.

Kate seems like the type of person to just go along with the crowd. So if her friends are smoking, she'll have one. She's probably eaten a lot of food she doesn't like and gone to a lot of places she really didn't want to just so she wouldn't upset the apple cart.

ETA: I do not mean that I don’t mind the smell of cigarettes. They’re gross. But Kate must not have a problem with it. 

Edited January 16, 2019 by Soup333

[MV713]

6 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Like sure was upset that Kate didn't want to shower before bed!  Is Like some kind of a germaphobe!

I think you mean LUKE.

Perhaps this was his way of trying to initiate intimacy - shower before bed so we can be "clean" for action.  When she protested and wouldn't, he got turned off more.

Plus the smoking.   She's not exactly putting her best foot forward.  

[PityFree]

2 minutes ago, MV713 said:

I think you mean LUKE.

Perhaps this was his way of trying to initiate intimacy - shower before bed so we can be "clean" for action.  When she protested and wouldn't, he got turned off more.

Plus the smoking.   She's not exactly putting her best foot forward.  

This! It’s like when someone suddenly offers you a stick of gum or a mint: you take it! If someone suggests that you shower after a long active day, you shower! Because you probably stink and don’t realize it.

[bichonblitz]

AJ cracks me up. 

Talking about wedding night: We didn't have sex. We are going to build a friendship and take it slow. I'm fine with that. 

Day two: We slept together. And it was great!

So much for waiting, AJ!

[OnTime]

13 hours ago, silverspoons said:

I'm glad to see AJ and Stephanie getting along so well.  I thin they might be the most positive part of the season. They both seem to like each other for what they are. I also can't see them fighting about money, gender roles, or cooking.  I think AJ is so happy to have a wife , he won't care if she cooks or orders in or if he pays the rent. 

I agree. I'm starting to like her.

[endure]

6 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Kate doesn't Juul?

Puke may be doubly repulsed...Kate smokes cigarettes and more importantly because it hits below his hipster belt...she is so uncool not to Juul....

Kaye's idea of a weekend is to have dinner with a friend...what?

Why was Kate chosen? I am at a loss...

Kate is not Puke's type...he likes the World of Benetton.

His disappointment is immediate and he takes it out on Kate.

The veteran crew and producers knew there was no interest by Puke even before Kate made it all the way down the aisle...

Betcha that's when they gave AJ and Stephanie the green light...even before the reception was over.

Kate is a challenge to the sound man...he has to minimize her vocal fry emitted from her frozen mouth and lips...is she a ventriloquist?

I hear noise like she is speaking but her lips don't move...

Kate would be more appealing to the basic cable audience if she didn't have a dirtbag of a spouse who looks to diminish her at every turn...

Blondie better be Skyping these 2 sad sacks in the next episode...

 BTW, Luke's hair looks especially dopey in HD...the severly shaved sides, heavy on the hair paste to point his hair sideways, the dyeing of his beard to a shade of red...

 

Several have commented on Lukes red beard as being dyed or whatever, this is a normal occurance caused by genetics and not a bottle of dye.

Edited January 16, 2019 by endure

[ChiMama]

15 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

I don’t consider paying bills “ heavy lifting”.  More like a little bookkeeping.  She’s making a big deal over nothing.  A very unusual request.  Most women I know like to control the money.  Better than getting an allowance from the husband.

I don't think she literally meant "paying the bills" as in writing out checks or going online to pay them, she meant "paying the bills" as in being responsible for them and paying them all with HIS money. Stupid/selfish, but 50/50 isn't always fair either. The fairest thing to do is total up their joint income, figure out what percentage of that total each is bringing to the table, figure out the total of their joint shared household (not personal) bills and making each responsible for an amount that aligns with their portion of the joint income. So, rough example, if Will makes 60k and Jasmine makes 40k, and their monthly household bills are $2,000 -- Will would cover 60 percent of the total budget ($1,200) and Jasmine 40 percent ($800). What they each have above and beyond that is theirs to cover personal bills (car/student loans, credit card debt) and/or to spend as they wish, no questions asked.

16 hours ago, 2727 said:

I hope people in Chicago see how unkindly he behaves and his dating business tanks.

Thank god we don't own this dude, he's from Philly -- home of the hated Eagles (by Bears fans).

[ChiMama]

13 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Keith’s non plussed reaction to that errand..but JamieO over reacted because it is her job.

And made some highly inappropriate comment like "Oh, NOW I understand why you didn't have sex on your wedding night." Ew, Jamie. Grow up.

 

13 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Dissecting Kate’s and Luke’s awesomely awkward dinner...you would have thought Kate had farted long and loud like Keith did.....

I was wondering why that wasn't mentioned. What an immature jerk to do that on day two -- is he 12?

[Palomar]

17 hours ago, Neurochick said:

WTF is wrong with Jasmine?  She wats the man to provide and pay all the bills?  Ooookay honey.

Probably why she has not married yet.  It's a nice dream but not realistic in today's world where usually husband and wife both work. Why wouldn't you want to contribute half if you could? Of course during a marriage someone might be making more money than the other but you are a team when you are married. 50% is a good starting point.