S10.E05: Andi Et Les Beaux

[nutty1]

I agree that I wouldn't even have given Josh a rose the first night. I think he went to a college in Georgia and is in finance, for whoever asked before. I think he did not do well in baseball…..said someone who knows more about the game than me. Also, I am guessing his family is quite wealthy, as Dad surprised Mom last week with a brand new Jag.

 

I do still like Nick's attitude….he has taken a more realistic approach to this ridiculous show. I am sort of happy he was pouty…..

 

Do you know Andi quoted Olivia Pope (character from Scandal) in her blog? I'd say that was a low blow to Nick. Of course she is the friggin prize…..HELLO??

 

I started talking to them individually and I got the sense that there was some tension between the guys and Nick – specifically that Nick had suggested to some effect that he was the "frontrunner." Obviously I don’t like this term, because it made me feel like this was a competition and that I’m a prize, and like Olivia Pope has said, "I am not a prize at the state fair. You cannot win me!" Needless to say, I was not happy at the turn of events that night. Giving the rose to JJ was the obvious choice that night.

Edited June 18, 2014 by nutty1

[Alapaki]

Obviously I don’t like this term, because it made me feel like this was a competition and that I’m a prize, and like Olivia Pope has said, "I am not a prize at the state fair. You cannot win me!"

 

 

Well now there's the first thing that come out of Andi's perma-frown that I can agree with.  

 

You're right Andi.  You're no prize.

[msburg]

 

The best part for me was Marquel. He didn't tip my bullshit meter at all and I appreciated his honesty. And I felt sad for him. Based on comments, I guess he "should" know he's first viewed as black. But it struck me so wrong for him to have that realization and I thought delivered one of the finer messages this show ever has.

I completely agree.  Mr. Burg came in the room while Marquel was explaining this -- and I tried to tell the Mr. that everyone who claims we are a color blind society needs to hear this!  I thought it was very thoughtful and thought provoking to hear Marquel explain how hurtful it is to have that be the primary descriptor -- not that he was warm or funny or any other characteristics he may have been showing.  And while some here have expressed contempt for his tears and hurt, that goes a long way to explain how racism still exists to those who are of the majority and living in more homogenous areas.

 

Of course, Mr. Burg wondered if anyone who watches the Bachelor would get that message...  he's not a fan of the show.

 

Josh is such a tool.  What a narcissist.  Hey Andi -- when he filters everything through his feelings and his experiences and his perspective, and not yours at all???  And when he's on his very best behavior?  Trust me, sister, it will NEVER be about you.

[Lone Wolf]

Has anyone noticed that every season (and at the beginning of most episodes) The Bachelorette says that what ever city she's in is "the perfect place to fall in love"?

 

Also, it seems like this season we're getting a lot of filler - long "previously on The Bachelorette" and "tonight on the The Bachelorette" segments as well as long "coming up" and back-from-commercial-here's-what-just-happened stuff.

 

Could they have shoehorned the movie commercial in there any more obviously?

[Zahdii]

RS is claiming that we'll  soon

see Marquel on Bachelor in Paradise.

 

 

About Marquel, what I saw of him made him seem like a good guy.  From the little I saw of him, the worst thing I could say was I'm not a fan of his fashion sense.  If I lived near him I'd be going through a list of women in his age group that would appreciate him. 

 

However, I wasn't really pushing to see him as the next Bachelor, because, as many people have pointed out before, the leads often suffer from too much exposure.  

Edited June 18, 2014 by Rhondinella
inserted spoiler tags

[JudyObscure]

I feel really sorry for Marquel.  I know it hurts to hear yourself described by a race, an age or something else superficial.  At least he knew it happened on the first night when JJ was probably the tall guy and Cody the pink haired guy, etc.

 

I feel sort of sorry for Andi in this situation, too. Every year the Bachelor or B' ette gets accused of racism when they cut the ethnic contestants.  Even Sean, whose last girlfriend had been African-American and who ultimately chose an Asian woman, had to go through it.  Andi simply said that she knew there was no future in the three she cut.  She may have known that about Marquel on the first night.  I can tell you that I've dated several  black men but I would never have gone out with Marquel.  He's absolutely adorable but far too much the cute little brother type for me.  I'm willing to bet Andi would have been attracted to a more sophisticated black man with a bit of swagger about him. 

 

When Andi was questioning Chris, she felt too close to anger for me.  If Chris had not revealed what the drama revolved around, I think it would have been very easy for her to turn.

I loved how he unintentionally put Andi in her place when she was saying (paraphrasing) "I know you don't want to tell me because you think it might make me not like you," and Chris said, (paraphrasing again, "No it has nothing to do with you at all.  I just don't want to slander someone when I don't have all the information."

 

Chris is the man.  I would really like to have him for the next Bachelor even though he's not quite as good looking as Bachelors  past.  They could try getting some women who were more substance than glamour to go with him.  It might make a nice change.

[waving feather]

Andrew may be a douche but I completely believed him when he said that's the most absurd thing he has heard and he did not utter those words. There was complete shock on his face when Marquel told him about it and he started laughing at the absurdity of it all. I would have reacted the exact same way. And seriously, I've never heard anyone use the words "blackies" in any situation. JJ sucks. He's either a liar or a coward. He sheepishly had his head down and kept quiet throughout the whole confrontation. If Andrew was lying, he could have spoke up to back up his claim, since he was the source of it. But he didn't, so I guess he's just a liar. And I love that Andrew basically told Andi that he doesn't want to be there anymore because of the drama. Guess you're not such a prize, Andi.

 

I also wanted to slap Andi when she was grilling Chris about the drama. Chris looked like he wanted NOTHING to do with it and actually looked annoyed by Andi throughout the whole exchange. If Andi was so concerned, she should just go to the actual source and find out the truth. Why was she making Chris gossip about the other guys in the house?! Yes, it is gossip because like Chris said, he doesn't have all the information to talk about it. Honestly, she's the first Bachelor/Bachelorette who wants to be willingly involved in the house drama; and that is not a compliment. Run, Chris, run.

 

And somehow Andi was also not satisfied by Nick's explanation when she herself said that it lined up exactly to what Cody (the other party in the conflict) told her. I don't know what she wanted. Did she want Nick to fall on his knees and beg for forgiveness? I still like Nick. I do see the smugness but the only guys who will be bothered by that are guys who are insecure. If you are secure in yourself, who cares if other people are smug or not.

 

I hate the way Josh talks. I notice the way he just goes on and on and on about himself, even when it's not called for. I've literally never heard anyone talk about themselves as much as Josh did on any season of the Bachelor/Bachelorette. It's always I ME MY. He's like a perpetual motor that never stops talking about himself. I know you like that, Andi, so have fun with that! And my eyes rolled to the floor when she asked him if he would play ball again and his answer was something like he definitely could if he wanted to (puke) but he NEVER wants to do it again. Wow, Josh, what a tragic loss to the world of baseball that you're never playing again (puke again). And that story about how his ex-girlfriend cheated on him because he's too irresistible to other girls. This is the first time I've heard someone spin a cheating story to boost their own ego.

[wordperson]

 

I don't particularly like Andrew, but I don't believe for a minute that he said "blackies".

I don't either, and I think Marquel is adorable and I'd pick him, but I don't think he said blackies. Nobody says that. I think he said "black guys." Not that I admire that comment either, but I think it's so weird that nobody even questioned that. 

[FamilyVan]

I don't think Andrew said it either.  Becuase yes, no one says that.  I 100% think that whole thing was to make a dig at Andew and nothing more.

 

Also - the Rose ceremony is filmed.  I have doubts that the guys say any comments about each other under their breath for fear of it being on camera, and this was in the beginning when they all did not know each other and they were still nervous.  I have my doubts on JJ with all this.

 

Marquel - he was awesome but he is young, good looking and charasmatic so I am sure he will meet someone great, someone way better than Andi!  I am not sure he could carry his own show.  His exit was class act.  Andrew was like he could not wait to leave. 

[Padma]

That "blackies" thing is still bothering me. Because you can't defend yourself against something like that. I thought Andrew was kind of a douche, but his reaction seemed genuine. Plus, if he was a bigot, I think he would have said other things about Marquel or Ron since then.

 

Y'all are right re: JJ said "it might have been 'black guys'" in his TH with producers. Because, yeah, they probably challenged him on it. THEN he added the disclaimer and laughed it off with "I don't think I was -that- drunk!"

 

And Marquel's memory changed it to "He called me 'a blackie'" when it was actually "blackies" / "black guys" about him and Ron. Which, even if he said it (and JJ has zero credibility, imo), it might be nothing more than, "He's choosing all the blondes." But IF he said anything, it was obviously such a casual comment that Andrew didn't even remember it.

 

JJ just sat there like a complete wimp/coward/gossip/shit-stirrer so he obviously didn't tell Marquel because he actually thought Andrew was racist and Marquel needed to know.

 

I felt my stomach turn when she gave JJ that "special" rose. I really hope they straighten this out at TBTA because that's a terrible thing to do to anyone--leave them stigmatized falsely as a racist. People look at you so differently after that. I hope the show really callsl JJ out -- the producers have the film and everyone is miked so, they know. He deserves to be shown up as a liar.

[nutty1]

The filming of the rose ceremonies, especially the first one, takes hours. I am sure the guys whisper to each other. As a matter of fact, JJ posted a picture of Andrew leaning over, whispering to him at that rose ceremony. But no one can ever prove if he said it or not. 

[nicolin]

Since Andi has effectively quit her job in Atlanta, I'm guessing (I'm not spoiled) that Josh is not the F1 since they live two miles apart.  Of course, that runs on the assumption that she has found her twue wuv and will move to wherever he lives and not that she's just taken a correspondent job in Atlanta.

Edited June 18, 2014 by nicolin

[Rhondinella]

The filming of the rose ceremonies, especially the first one, takes hours. I am sure the guys whisper to each other.

 

 

I feel like if Andrew said something like that, and assuming it was picked up on mic (which it might not have been I guess) they producers would ABSOLUTELY have shown us that clip, probably over and over again, either after it first happened, or else during this episode if they decided to save it for the drama factor.  I mean, I can't completely rule out that it happened just because they didn't show it, but that gives it less credibility to me.  NO WAY the producers would NOT have played the heck out of that if they had it.

[YumCheesecake]

I got the posting for Andi's job in my email this week. Very upsetting to hear she resigned, as I certainly don't want to see more of her on my teevee when this is all over and done with.

 

Josh is so hot, but I certainly wouldn't want him for a husband.

[Zahdii]

JJ just sat there like a complete wimp/coward/gossip/shit-stirrer so he obviously didn't tell Marquel because he actually thought Andrew was racist and Marquel needed to know.

 

I suspect JJ is like this woman I worked with a long time ago.  She was always saying shit and causing trouble until her job was on the line, then she suddenly switched from saying the stuff herself to telling people that she heard 'someone' in the break room saying stuff.  She'd light the fire and sit back to watch the damage with a smile on her face.  Eventually she got fired, but she's still doing the same shit years later.  She keeps getting fired, but the urge to stir up trouble is too strong for her to resist.  Must be some kind of psychological issue or personality disorder.

 

Andi seems to think she's good at reading people, but I think she's deluding herself.

[violetr]

I think both Josh and Brian are SO boring. I get that most TB and TB'ette contestants aren't usually huge brains with a penchant for deep philosophical discussions, but these guys just have nothing to say. I don't care if a guy is the prettiest thing I've ever seen (although neither of them do a thing for me), I would lose interest in guys that boring immediately. 

 

I still like Nick. I think he's an introvert and it doesn't play well on a show like this, but so far I am buying that he has genuine feelings for Andi. But maybe that's just me hoping that we'll get some actual romantic drama on this season. The travel porn is always lovely, but my personal Bachelorette journey (hee) isn't complete without some drama that's not entirely producer-manufactured. 

 

If Marquel isn't picked to be the next Bachelor there will have been a huge missed opportunity. 

[waving feather]

Another thing I noticed was the 2 completely different ways Andrew reacted when called out on his actions. When they confronted him about getting some waitress' number, he looked panicked and immediately ran away from the conversation. So I'm assuming there is some truth to it. But when Marquel confronted him, he looked incredulous and didn't look an ounce guilty about it. I'm not sure what's JJ's problem with Andrew is. Maybe he reminded JJ of guys who used to bully him in high school and this is his way of getting back? *shrug*

[JudyObscure]

I'm not sure what's JJ's problem with Andrew is. Maybe he reminded JJ of guys who used to bully him in high school and this is his way of getting back?

 

I think we might be getting a hint as to why he might have been bullied, too. 

[truthaboutluv]

It definitely seemed like JJ had it in for Andrew. I watched the scene again and it looked like he, Marquel, Nick and Brian were talking about the possibility of a 2 on 1 dates and JJ mentioned wanting Andrew to go home and it seemed like they were just sitting around with JJ talking about how much he dislikes Andrew. And then he's the one that brings the whole thing up by telling Nick if he remembered what he told him and that's when Nick says to Marquel he didn't want to tell him because he'd get mad. And then JJ starts with the whole "blackie" thing. Oh and apparently after the episode aired he tweeted a screen cap of Andrew leaning towards him during the first rose ceremony as if that absolutely proves that is what Andrew said. 

[Padma]

From that preview we "earned" (as the wall s-l-o-w-l-y rose for what may turn out to be the most boring gimmick on a singing show to date) of Bachelor in Paradise, it looks like the least ethnically diverse program on television. Not that Marquel et al can't date white girls, but it would be nice, for a change to see some diversity on these ABC dating shows. I'd enjoy Marquel as TB (unless he wound up like Jason Mesnick, Blob and others...I've watched enough of this to know how easily that happens but an ethnically diverse  "Bachelor" where people dated in and out of their own "race" and it was no big deal? Maybe when Chris is still hosting at 60. (I think a 40 year old bachelorette will come first). 

 

Travel porn though--I wish I knew where else they were going. I had no idea Marseilles would look so appealing and--they look like the cameraman is in love with Venice, too.

 

ITA Josh wouldn't keep my interest for a second. I know he's handsome and he seems nice enough (although hard to read), but... boring! And I felt his answers for "baseball career" and "girlfriend" were not sincere or just showed a lack of being very reflective. The "girlfriend" answer seemed almost scripted to make Andi feel he'd been rejected too.

 

Didn't he say he hasn't dated (not just hasn't had a girlfriend) for 5 years? And it's because "I don't want to spend time with a woman unless I want to marry her. Like I feel about you." Huh? That answer just seemed weird. Don't you have to usually date someone to figure out you want to marry them?

 

I don't think anyone else is even on Andi's radar, but personally I think I'd be spending time getting to know Chris and Marcus (I think that's his name, we don't see much of him--no idea what he does--but he seems handsome and a little shy.)

[karewho]

Now I'm not calling them racist, but everyone has their preferences.

Having a racial "preference" might not be racist per say but it's nothing to be celebrated either.

For the record, I thought it was pretty telling that after Marquel addressed Andrew, Andrew ran to Andie claiming that he'd been attacked by Marquel when Marquel actually dealt with the situation rather well and was very calm and in the end didn't push it after Andrew said that he never said anything like it. I just really can't take Andrew at all.

 

That "blackies" thing is still bothering me. Because you can't defend yourself against something like that. I thought Andrew was kind of a douche, but his reaction seemed genuine. Plus, if he was a bigot, I think he would have said other things about Marquel or Ron since then.

And Marquel's memory changed it to "He called me 'a blackie'" when it was actually "blackies" / "black guys" about him and Ron. Which, even if he said it (and JJ has zero credibility, imo), it might be nothing more than, "He's choosing all the blondes." But IF he said anything, it was obviously such a casual comment that Andrew didn't even remember it.

 

Even if he didn't say blackie - and I am not leaning any way in this - and actually said "whoa she picked the two black guys" that's hardly any better. Nineteen guys got through the first elimination. Two of them were black. Sixteen were white. Why exactly did Andrew feel the need to bring attention to the whole two black men that made it? If she had chosen two blondes out of seventeen brunettes would there have been a comment? No. So to say he was merely calling attention to their blackness for the sake of being descriptive, why did he feel the need to call attention to it at all?

 

JJ is certainly a shit disturber and I don't trust him at all but why is Andrew getting so much leeway when he's been nothing but smarmy and shady up to this point? I don't like either of them but it's certainly very possible that douchey Andrew would say something douchey like that. And ABC will do their best to make sure that if he did it'll never see the light of the day. The Bachelor/Bachelorette has had too much negative press when it comes to race for them to willing add fuel to the fire.

[Bella]

I'm going to jump in here and say that I agree with everything @karewho said. I also want to let all of you know that we mods appreciate the tone of the race discussion here, and we're confident that you will continue to be civil and responsible in your remarks.

 

I kind of hope that Bachelor in Paradise leads to Marquel being The Bachelor. I'm really not that interested in anyone else this season.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Rhondinella

[Bugs Meany]

Two of them were black. Sixteen were white. Why exactly did Andrew feel the need to bring attention to the whole two black men that made it?

 

To play devil's advocate, any cynic who watches the show, or is just familiar with the format, thinks "She'll pick one of them, just so we know she's not racist."  The cynic thinks he's open-minded, but that others aren't.  If a minority was cast on the show or given a rose, the cynic thinks it was overcompensation.  He thinks people should be color-blind, but never believes them when they make color-blind decisions.

 

(We're all a little guilty of this.  Having seen so many seasons and so many casts, how many of us would have bet that she'd pick neither Marquel nor Ron?  Not a chance, right?  Marquel's looks and charm were rose-worthy on their own, but sometimes an appealing candidate doesn't make it past night 1.)

 

Andrew was one of these cynics, and his alleged reaction was one of surprise: she picked two, even though she only "had to" pick one.  I'd call him insensitive and tactless, but not racist.

[ribboninthesky1]

Even if he didn't say blackie - and I am not leaning any way in this - and actually said "whoa she picked the two black guys" that's hardly any better. Nineteen guys got through the first elimination. Two of them were black. Sixteen were white. Why exactly did Andrew feel the need to bring attention to the whole two black men that made it? If she had chosen two blondes out of seventeen brunettes would there have been a comment? No. So to say he was merely calling attention to their blackness for the sake of being descriptive, why did he feel the need to call attention to it at all?

 

I agree with this.  Nevertheless, I thought Marquel (who didn't hear it himself) confronting Andrew about it was pointless, even if he'd chosen to confront Andrew individually.  We'll never know if or what Andrew said about Marquel and Ron, but even if he said it, why would he admit to it? That's the insidious nature of bigotry and racial microaggressions - most people don't realize they have these views because they think it's normal. In this instance, even if Andrew made a comment about Andi picking both black guys (and I can believe he did), I can't see him being self-aware enough to understand the inherent bigotry behind that observation.  

 

And to add to it - the fact that JJ allegedly heard it, and Nick knew about it, but neither talked to Andrew about it and set him straight (which would have been more impactful than telling Marquel, IMO) tells a lot about them as well.  But JJ has already shown himself to be a coward, and Nick a smug baby, so it's no surprise.   

 

Andrew's conversation with Andi about it did him no favors at all.  But ultimately, no one really came out of it looking all that good, not even Marquel.       

[leighdear]

Sharleen has her recap up for this episode.  I absolutely adore her "insider" commentary, in fact I look forward to her recaps as much as Reality Steves!  *LOL*

 

http://www.alltheprettypandas.com/recaps/

[MarkHB]

Assuming Andrew did make some sort of observation about Andi picking the two black men, my initial thought was that he was thinking in terms of the reputation black men have for being more-well-endowed, and her picking accordingly.

 

Regarding Josh's baseball career, usually high-school draftees go to rookie league, which also has some component of "here's how you do laundry"-type stuff that most of us don't really have to deal with until college (thanks, mom!).  While bouncing around the minors, they make squat for money (less than $2000/month and only for the 5 months of the season, and in most cases they have to pay for their own home-city housing out of that).  In Josh's case, as a 2nd-round pick, he actually got a $825,000 signing bonus, plus money for college after baseball, but those perks drop off quickly after the first few draft rounds.   Here's one other article discussing Josh and his brother, who is indeed apparently the new rookie quarterback for the Kansas City Chiefs.  One point in these articles is that some folks close to him are wondering why the show's focusing on him as a former athlete when he left pro ball years ago, but then how interested would most people be in him if all we heard him talk about was mutual funds?

One other thing I thought of during the episode: I used to work for a company in the travel industry, concentrating on leisure travel, and the general consensus at the time was that Marseilles was a pit, particularly compared to the nearby French Riviera cities of Nice, etc.  Plus it had the French Connection still hanging over its head.  So, it was funny to me to hear them all talking about how lovely it is.

[Canada]

If the blackies comment really was made, it would have been caught either on camera or at least on someone's microphone.  There's no way it would have been missed.  And since the show was happy for JJ to make the accusation, I can't imagine they would then hide that footage.  I don't think it exists because I don't think anyone said anything like it.

[truthaboutluv]

And to add to it - the fact that JJ allegedly heard it, and Nick knew about it, but neither talked to Andrew about it and set him straight (which would have been more impactful than telling Marquel, IMO) tells a lot about them as well.  But JJ has already shown himself to be a coward, and Nick a smug baby, so it's no surprise.

 

 

I don't think that's really fair to Nick. Something like that is already a very sensitive issue and the fact of the matter is, everything he "knew" about the supposed incident was all hearsay, from JJ. He never heard Andrew make those remarks so why was it incumbent on him to confront him about it? JJ is the one who supposedly heard the comment and then made clear he wasn't even sure that was what he heard. So why didn't he verify exactly what he heard at that exact moment rather than bring it up weeks later to Marquel, while still admitting he wasn't even sure that was what he heard. 

[fib]

I used to work for a company in the travel industry, concentrating on leisure travel, and the general consensus at the time was that Marseilles was a pit, particularly compared to the nearby French Riviera cities of Nice, etc.

 

 

I've been to both, and yes, while Nice is a better place to go spend two weeks on the French Riviera, Marseille is not entirely without charm.  I enjoyed it, as someone who loves food, boats, and city things like markets.  I think they highlighted the nicest parts on the show, though I am shocked that there was no mention of the famous Bouillabaise.  The port is fun to walk around during the day.  There is pretty scenery nearby. Its a perfect spot for the show to highlight: they probably got easy support and comps from the tourism board, and there were 3 dates worth of entertainment. 

[chocolatine]

I used to work for a company in the travel industry, concentrating on leisure travel, and the general consensus at the time was that Marseilles was a pit, particularly compared to the nearby French Riviera cities of Nice, etc.  Plus it had the French Connection still hanging over its head.  So, it was funny to me to hear them all talking about how lovely it is.

 

 

I thought the same thing. I grew up in Europe, and Marseilles was never a popular destination and was considered seedy. I don't even consider it part of the French Riviera. When I first heard they were going to Marseilles, my first thought was that production was too cheap to spring for Nice. 

[Padma]

Even if he didn't say blackie - and I am not leaning any way in this - and actually said "whoa she picked the two black guys" that's hardly any better. Nineteen guys got through the first elimination. Two of them were black. Sixteen were white. Why exactly did Andrew feel the need to bring attention to the whole two black men that made it? If she had chosen two blondes out of seventeen brunettes would there have been a comment? No. So to say he was merely calling attention to their blackness for the sake of being descriptive, why did he feel the need to call attention to it at all?

 

JJ is certainly a shit disturber and I don't trust him at all but why is Andrew getting so much leeway when he's been nothing but smarmy and shady up to this point? I don't like either of them

 

First, while we're disagreeing about the 'race' thing as it was played out, I agree 100% that Andrew is smarmy and shady. My problem is that I hate to see someone's reputation smeared (maybe, to some people he knows personally, even destroyed) by something completely unsubstantiated that someone else attributed to him. I mean, JJ seems like a jerk to me, he backed off when producers asked him "...it might have been 'black guys'...."I wasn't that drunk, haha"..) I work with people like that --who spread malicious gossip just because they can--JJ seems like someone very capable of it.

 

I think Nick was right to ignore it since Andrew was apparently completely friendly with "the black guys" and Nick didn't hear him say anything bad. Plus, Nick may dislike JJ and find him an unreliable source. Spreading ugly rumors and gossip is one of my pet peeves about people!

 

As for the comment, I think "She picked the two blackies" is a whole lot worse than "She's choosing all the black guys" ... or "She seems to like black guys" or... whatever. I know a lot of people disagree, but I just don't see that any worse than "She seems to like guys with beards" or "She's choosing all the redheads". Just noticing that they're black and Andi's choosing them to me isn't a racial slur. "Blackies"? (Which no one, even racists, says that I know of).. Yes, that isn't good. I choose to think JJ misheard because that's what -he- was thinking (and also because he probably really -was- that drunk!)

[betha]

Complete Nick fan here. I totally see it and have since he stepped out of that limo in the cute polka dot tie. (When Chris Harrison said he didn't see what Andi saw in Nick the first night, I thought, are you blind?)  He's got those soulful, intelligent, searching eyes that can make you feel really special, and I think the key to why Andi won't get rid of him for a while (not spoiled) is in the "he really sees who I am" comments. He is being real, or at least projecting very strongly that he is. This type of sensitive guy can sometimes get away with being selfish or arrogant; why is why the trait is MY 'watch out' trigger. But Nick's arrogance at this point is completely fine -- shouldn't all the men who have a connection with her feel like they have a real chance? I thought the other boys were being jealous and annoying - especially JJ and Cody.  

 

Josh also is definitely a front runner - she can't get enough of him. He's not my personal cup of tea, but I thought he was being earnest. If anything, too earnest - he takes himself way too seriously. Location gives him big points here - she's always considered him a real life possibility.  

 

Third, fourth, and fifth all votes for Marquel as next Bachelor!!!! I find him incredibly engaging, smart, handsome, and fun to watch. Was soo sad he left instead of Cody or Dylan or Brian! Speaking of Brian, I noticed that in her blog, Andi talked about how they played with the frog's legs at dinner, so maybe it wasn't as horrible as they showed on the episode and could explain why she is giving him another chance. And it did look like a horrible date on the episode.   

[Adeejay]

Marquel as next Bachelor!!!! I find him incredibly engaging, smart, handsome, and fun to watch.

 

When it comes to the Bachelor, sometimes, we have to be careful what we wish for;  Bob, Jason, Jake and Juan Pablo are perfect examples. I am having a hard time understanding why a handsome, charming and seemingly nice guy like Marquel is having problems meeting someone special, when men that are incarcerated do not. 

[ribboninthesky1]

I don't think that's really fair to Nick. Something like that is already a very sensitive issue and the fact of the matter is, everything he "knew" about the supposed incident was all hearsay, from JJ. He never heard Andrew make those remarks so why was it incumbent on him to confront him about it? JJ is the one who supposedly heard the comment and then made clear he wasn't even sure that was what he heard. So why didn't he verify exactly what he heard at that exact moment rather than bring it up weeks later to Marquel, while still admitting he wasn't even sure that was what he heard.

 

You're right - it was hearsay.  Yet Nick apparently believed what JJ told him.  When JJ brought it up, I don't understand why he seemed to back JJ up, especially since he wasn't there.  He should have stayed out of it completely, especially given the sensitive nature of the allegation.  I can't imagine someone like Chris piping up with (paraphrased), "Yeah, I didn't want to mention it because I didn't want you to get upset..." as if he was there and witnessed the incident. So my take is, if he believed what JJ told him, and thought it to be wrong, then yeah, why not go to Andrew with it?  

 

It's not that I think JJ or Nick were required to confront Andrew.  But I don't understand the point of JJ telling Marquel, and certainly not Nick backing him up as if he heard what was allegedly said.  If they thought it wrong (as they both seemed to), they had plenty of time to call Andrew on it, especially since the alleged comments were made when Ron got the rose, not Marquel.  Otherwise, why bring it up at all?  It's shit-stirring, which is particularly egregious for Nick since he didn't even hear it.  So yeah, I'm as hard on Nick as JJ, in that regard.  I wouldn't co-sign something I didn't personally witness, yet when Marquel reacts and mentions confronting Andrew, Nick is right there with JJ with "He'll say something dumb! He'll deny it!" Well, how you would know, since neither of you were ballsy enough to actually confront Andrew?                 

[truthaboutluv]

You're right - it was hearsay.  Yet Nick apparently believed what JJ told him.  When JJ brought it up, I don't understand why he seemed to back JJ up, especially since he wasn't there.  He should have stayed out of it completely, especially given the sensitive nature of the allegation.  I can't imagine someone like Chris piping up with (paraphrased), "Yeah, I didn't want to mention it because I didn't want you to get upset..." as if he was there and witnessed the incident. So my take is, if he believed what JJ told him, and thought it to be wrong, then yeah, why not go to Andrew with it?

 

 

YMMV but I didn't see the scene that way. JJ was going on again about how much he didn't like Andrew and then he turned to Nick and asked him if he remembered what he told him. At that point Nick looked like he'd actually forgotten about the conversation and then said, "oh right" and then turns to Marquel and said he didn't mention it to him because he didn't want to upset him and then he turned over to JJ and said he'd let him tell it because JJ is the one who supposedly heard the comment. And then when Marquel spoke about confronting Andrew, Nick just said that Andrew likely just ignore it or deny that he ever said anything. But I'm still not seeing what Nick did wrong here or how this was on him. Yes he didn't go to Andrew but he didn't tell Marquel either so again I just think it was situation that was very touchy that he just chose to not get personally involved with as he only had JJ's word that this happened. 

[ribboninthesky1]

I know what happened in the scene (I always rewatch something when I comment to be sure I have the details as laid out on an episode), so that's fair - we don't perceive Nick the same way in that context.  I still believe that Nick shouldn't have backed up JJ at all, since he wasn't privy to anything.  And certainly shouldn't have declared what Andrew will or will not say or do, since neither of them, who apparently knew of the alleged comments for X amount of time, took the time to talk to Andrew. 

 

I don't really care about Andrew's reputation, but if JJ thought Andrew made some insidious comments, then he should have called Andrew on it when it happened.  Especially since, conveniently, JJ doesn't disclose his response to what Andrew allegedly said.  If Nick believed what JJ said, then he had ample opportunity to ask Andrew himself.  Bringing it up later is just stirring up drama (whether producer-driven or not), which JJ has already demonstrated, and Nick should have kept his mouth shut.  And as someone mentioned, JJ only expressed doubt in his TH, not while talking to Marquel.  So it was presented to Marquel as something definitive, at least as shown in the episode. 

 

As I stated in an earlier comment, I thought Marquel (albeit elegantly) confronting Andrew was pointless because it was based on hearsay.  And if it was true, I couldn't see Andrew ever owning up to it.  I understood what Marquel was talking about in his THs, but given that he was expressing himself based on something he didn't even experience, it just seemed like hyped up drama to me.  I just don't see the confrontation as some insightful, poignant race discussion.

Edited June 19, 2014 by ribboninthesky1

[truthaboutluv]

Yeah I think this is just one of those agree to disagree things because something tells me had Nick confronted and asked Andrew about the situation, he would have been judged for stirring up drama and getting involved in something that he wasn't even there when it supposedly happened.

JJ told him something that May or may not have been true and he simply told no one yet he still gets judged. It's not like he went around telling everyone else what JJ told him and calling Andrew a racist. Like I said, I disagree that he "backed JJ up." JJ brought up the story, he acknowledged being told about it and simply explained to Marquel why he didn't tell him.

Edited June 19, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[ribboninthesky1]

I can't speculate on what would have happened if Nick (or JJ) had asked Andrew.  All of the guys are judged in some way, so I don't think Nick should be an exception. I only have what was shown in the episode, and I judged based on what I perceived.  My original comments were my opinion on what have been more impactful in terms of confrontation, not some mandate on what JJ or Nick were required to do.  It also would have been nice to see JJ or Nick try to diffuse the situation, since they were the main ones shown providing commentary, but it's clear to me that's not what it was about. 

 

If I recall correctly, Nick also backed JJ up on "Andrew got a woman's number and bragged about it" issue.  I don't think either of them liked Andrew, probably for legitimate reasons, yet it also seems like JJ and Nick talked about Andrew, as it's the second time JJ has gone to Nick for validation of some sort when stirring up drama.                 

Edited June 19, 2014 by ribboninthesky1

[violetr]

As I stated in an earlier comment, I thought Marquel (albeit elegantly) confronting Andrew was pointless because it was based on hearsay.

 

I have a feeling that this had more to do with how Marquel wanted to be perceived by viewers than really feeling the overwhelming need to confront someone over an alleged comment. And wasn't one of the guys (Dylan?) kind of egging him on to do it? I remember one of the guys saying something to the effect of, "Andrew's right over there, why don't you do it now!"

What do you bet Marquel would have just dismissed it as "pffft, whatever" if it happened in his personal life. But this is 'Murica and guys don't want to be perceived as not having cojones or being afraid of confrontation, especially in front of thousands of viewers.

[Rhondinella]

I have a feeling that this had more to do with how Marquel wanted to be perceived by viewers than really feeling the overwhelming need to confront someone over an alleged comment

 

 

It's pretty clear to me that producer manipulation was involved.  Cause didn't it initially seem that he was going to confront Andrew one-on-one but then suddenly he was in a room with a bunch of guys and stood up and announced it?  I would bet everything I own that once the producers got wind of it (if they didn't completely manufacture it in the first place) they insisted on the on-camera group confrontation for drama's sake.

[aenea]

It's pretty clear to me that producer manipulation was involved.  Cause didn't it initially seem that he was going to confront Andrew one-on-one but then suddenly he was in a room with a bunch of guys and stood up and announced it?  I would bet everything I own that once the producers got wind of it (if they didn't completely manufacture it in the first place) they insisted on the on-camera group confrontation for drama's sake.

The producers seem to be going a bit more all out on the provocation this year- Andi getting notes and flowers delivered to her (obviously producer friendly, if not instigated, sometimes while she's on a date with someone else), getting Andi involved in the men's house drama, and obviously set-up 'confrontations'.  I wouldn't be surprised if they just set that one up to show Farmer Chris' discomfort with gossip.  

[Bugs Meany]

I am having a hard time understanding why a handsome, charming and seemingly nice guy like Marquel is having problems meeting someone special, when men that are incarcerated do not.

I think by now everyone knows the script. Your exit interview is also your Bachelor audition. You can't say you have no trouble meeting women without a TV show, or that you're still a few years away from marriage, or that you weren't that into the Bachelorette anyway. It's important to say that you're ready, that traditional dating isn't working and that it's time to "try something new." Edited June 20, 2014 by Bugs Meany

[truthaboutluv]

Personally my thing with the "Marquel for the next Bachelor" is that I would think viewers learned their lesson after the mess that was Juan Pablo. Now granted, my gut says from the little we did see that Marquel is likely nothing like Juan Pablo but still, we got Juan Pablo because a vocal bunch of viewers thought he was so hot even though he barely had any presence during Des' season and rooted hard for him to be the next Bachelor.

 

And well we all saw how that turned out - entertaining though it was for the trainwreck elements. That said, I wonder if the show will ever go back to someone new. I  mean I certainly get the recycling of contestants for leads because viewers already have some connection with them but at the same time it might be interesting learning about someone as they're getting to know the contestants and "trying to find love".

[NikSac]

Personally my thing with the "Marquel for the next Bachelor" is that I would think viewers learned their lesson after the mess that was Juan Pablo. Now granted, my gut says from the little we did see that Marquel is likely nothing like Juan Pablo but still, we got Juan Pablo because a vocal bunch of viewers thought he was so hot even though he barely had any presence during Des' season and rooted hard for him to be the next Bachelor.

 

And well we all saw how that turned out - entertaining though it was for the trainwreck elements. That said, I wonder if the show will ever go back to someone new. I  mean I certainly get the recycling of contestants for leads because viewers already have some connection with them but at the same time it might be interesting learning about someone as they're getting to know the contestants and "trying to find love".

 

Totally agree. I liked the idea of Marquel for the next Bachelor, until I realized it would probably make me dislike him.

[Bella]

Totally agree. I liked the idea of Marquel for the next Bachelor, until I realized it would probably make me dislike him.

 

We'll probably dislike whoever it is anyway, though, especially since they recycle contestants and this crew is completely uninspiring IMO. It's more fun to get excited about someone we really like coming in as Bachelor, happily anticipate the season, and then take 2-4 episodes to completely turn on him, feel sorry for his dates, etc. Plus, it generates lots of discussion. So I'm sticking with Marquel as my pick for next Bachelor.

[legaleagle53]

You know, all this discussion still has left one unanswered question in my mind regarding this week's episode:  If a mime falls in the forest, and there's no one around to see it, does he still not make a noise?

[Rhondinella]

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT:  Ok guys, we apparently need some ground rules re: spoilers here for Bachelor in Paradise, and what constitutes a spoiler for BiP. I know not everyone considers casting information as a spoiler, but I think we'll do best to err on the side of caution, especially with this show where it appears not all the contestants have actually been announced publicly.

 

So who is or isn't cast on BiP should NOT be discussed in this forum without spoiler tags.  If you want talk more freely, go to the Spoiler thread on the Bachelor in Paradise boards where this discussion is already going on.  Thank you.  I have moved several posts on this subject to that thread.

[KnoxForPres]

You know, all this discussion still has left one unanswered question in my mind regarding this week's episode: If a mime falls in the forest, and there's no one around to see it, does he still not make a noise?

Anytime I see anything like this, I'm taken back to my youth. Floppy disc ( like real floppy) my parents got us an Encarta encyclopedia and it had a little thing where you'd walk through rooms. One of them had a person saying "what is the sound of one hand clapping" upon entering the room.

So between that, Philosophy 101, and now the Bachelorette mime...so much to contemplate.

[Jeanius]

I remembered that I still had the first episode of The Bachelorette on my DVR, so I went back and watched the part in question. Andrew DID turn to JJ and made a comment to him. I'm also wondering if they were miked, and if so, why they didn't show that part, but even if he said "black guys" and not "blackies," it rubs me the wrong way. Why make a comment to begin with? Andrew didn't flat out say he didn't say anything to JJ, he just denied saying "blackie." He definitely said SOMETHING to JJ.

[chocolatine]

Saying something in and of itself is not a crime. As long as there's no footage of Andrew saying something racist, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt in this situation. I think he's a smarmy douche based on his intro package (not aired on the show but available online) and his blabbing to the other guys about getting a waitress's phone number, but racism is a different story.