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On 8/25/2019 at 5:35 PM, shapeshifter said:

The wedding would have been a great series ender.
  
  
  

Now that you mention it, I agree, especially knowing what’s to come and how the series deteriorates.

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25 minutes ago, Tabbygirl said:

I’m probably in the minority but I liked Hickman and I liked the chemistry between him and Amy.

Hickman is one of my least-favorite character types, the great detective who's just too "un-PC".  Now, I will grant they don't go all in for that, as pretty much everyone regards him as a jackass.  But he's so awful - a sexist, racist, serial-cheating asshole who still thinks he was justified in committing perjury - that for the Black woman to be the one emerging from this thinking he's not as bad as he's reputed to be ticks me off.  

I do appreciate how she handles him, but the script acts like his "third guy" theory of the crime was so singular and brilliant she has to keep doing so.  Mike and Stephanie shared that theory, it was just that DDA Grey shut down that avenue of investigation (since it would harm the case against Price).  There are better ways to revisit the issue than a toad like Mark Hickman.

When Sharon was not finally made commander after solving "the biggest outstanding case in LAPD history", I was so ticked off, but I knew they couldn't end with her promotion and Provenza's wedding.  At least she and I only needed to wait one more season, and that scene was worth the wait.  In hindsight (no pun intended), there's a lot to be said for "Shockwave" being the series finale.

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On 6/30/2019 at 12:00 AM, Bastet said:

I can’t believe I never thought of this in previous viewings, but what happens with Emmy in “Targets of Opportunity”?  Rico and his parents enter Witness Protection - which means no contact with anyone else from their real lives - but Emmy is pregnant by Rico and there’s no mention of her.  So she gets left behind – unable to make rent or keep the car running – to raise a kid by herself?

I just saw this episode again tonight and Enrico and Emmy were placed in Witness Protection while the Feds and ICE worked on Rico’s and his parents immigration issues, among other things. So Emmy was not forgotten.

And as Provenza said it’s sad two officers lost their lives due to 2 ex-cons playing cop to shake down old people. Scary and sad at the same time.

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16 minutes ago, Tabbygirl said:

I just saw this episode again tonight and Enrico and Emmy were placed in Witness Protection while the Feds and ICE worked on Rico’s and his parents immigration issues, among other things. So Emmy was not forgotten.

I know; I remember this discussion, and it was pointed out then that the line is right there in the dialogue and I just somehow managed to miss hearing it during that one viewing, making me think there was a glaring plot hole I'd never noticed.  Weird.

16 minutes ago, Tabbygirl said:

And as Provenza said it’s sad two officers lost their lives due to 2 ex-cons playing cop to shake down old people.

I'm a bit puzzled by how much money they had to have spent to set up the crime - the uniforms and guns, easy enough, but they had to also get a car and dress it up like a cop car - so at a couple hundred per victim, they'd have to rob a lot of old folks to break even.  Unless they just stole an LAPD vehicle, but that was never mentioned; if that had happened, it should have come up when they first started discussing the fake cops theory.

I love Mary McDonnell's face acting in the scene where Sharon realizes it wasn't the gang; Rico is telling the truth that cops (or people posing as cops) did it.

And, of course, I love the master class in acting when her entire being changes in the second she shifts from the helpless bystander she's pretending to be to the captain with a gun in a cop killer's face.

Edited by Bastet
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On 9/22/2019 at 12:54 AM, Bastet said:Second, it continually bothers me that the physical intimacy is so restrained, not to mention rare, on this show compared to The Closer, and that discrepancy is a problem when the three couples are two older couples, one of which is also interracial, and a gay couple.  The kiss between Rusty and Gus after their first “I love you” is another example of that - very vanilla.

I really like your observation here. Tonight I was thinking we see Patrice and Provenza kiss more than Sharon and Andy and Rusty and Gus. And we never saw Sharon and Andy in bed — in their bedroom, once at the end — but never in bed. Whereas Brenda and Fritz were portrayed as a very physical and passionate couple on The Closer with even little moments of intimacy shown, like him rubbing her feet. And aside from Gabriel’s and Daniels’ failed relationship we never saw any of the personal relationships other members of the squad had. Very good observation indeed.

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OMG, one of the sexiest scenes I ever saw on  tv was on The Closer.                                     The show opens with a close up of Brenda's face in bed as she wakes up and says:  "Good morning..."

A few other words and the next scene is Brenda getting dressed after a shower (her hair is wet).

Kyra's delivery of that opening line is ......profound......perhaps enticing....or enlightening.......all of the above

LOVED IT!

 

 

 

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On 12/29/2019 at 1:02 AM, Bastet said:

It's funny to go back and look at Buzz so desperate to be free of babysitting Rusty that he's throwing in all his cash and begging others to do the same, given the close relationship they wound up having.

ICAM with this. I enjoyed the Rusty/Buzz connection and Buzz was one of the people early on who would point out Rusty’s self-involved, everything’s about me tendencies, like how he never asks anybody about their interests, feelings, etc. It’s after this that Rusty starts asking the various squad members why they entered police work, and Andy’s and Provenza’s facial expressions when Rusty asks them that is like ‘Who are you and what have you done with Rusty?’

One of my favorite scenes is Rusty (saying about Sharon), “She really loves her rules, doesn’t she?”, and Buzz replies, “You have no idea.” Of course the latter referring to Buzz’s and the squad’s dealings with her from The Closer. Lol.

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Lifetime in the Philadelphia/Chester County region has taken off MC from its weekday rotation. They usually show a few episodes of The Closer, followed by Major Crimes, followed by Rizzoli and Isles. Today it’s The Closer episodes, followed by a Castle marathon. Not sure if it’s permanent, but it is disappointing. 

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6 hours ago, Tabbygirl said:

Lifetime in the Philadelphia/Chester County region has taken off MC from its weekday rotation. They usually show a few episodes of The Closer, followed by Major Crimes, followed by Rizzoli and Isles. Today it’s The Closer episodes, followed by a Castle marathon. Not sure if it’s permanent, but it is disappointing. 

Looks like they're showing 3 hours/day next Mon, Tues, Wed... that's as far as my channel guide goes. I've never watched Castle, so I'm catching a couple episodes here and there; it's ok so far.

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Does anyone know where I could find a print of the photo  from the show, the one with the Welcome to Los Angeles with a wildfire in the background?

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22 hours ago, Tabbygirl said:

Lifetime in the Philadelphia/Chester County region has taken off MC from its weekday rotation. They usually show a few episodes of The Closer, followed by Major Crimes, followed by Rizzoli and Isles. Today it’s The Closer episodes, followed by a Castle marathon. Not sure if it’s permanent, but it is disappointing. 

Lifetime has changed up their schedule so that one day there's a lot of The Closer, some days a mix of The Closer and Major Crimes like before, and some days it's all Grey's Anatomy.

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I never watched either this series or The Closer when they were originally on.  I’ve since watched The Closer in its entirety and found Major Crimes in the middle.  I have finally seen the pilot.  Wow, is Amy Sykes an annoying suck up in the beginning, and I hated how they were throwing Brenda under the bus.  I didn’t like Sharon in The Closer, and I am pretty sure I would have given up this show if I had watched them in order.

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On 10/15/2021 at 4:03 PM, Crs97 said:

I never watched either this series or The Closer when they were originally on.  I’ve since watched The Closer in its entirety and found Major Crimes in the middle.  I have finally seen the pilot.  Wow, is Amy Sykes an annoying suck up in the beginning, and I hated how they were throwing Brenda under the bus.  I didn’t like Sharon in The Closer, and I am pretty sure I would have given up this show if I had watched them in order.

Yeah seeing how Amy was in the beginning is pretty funny now. I remember the first time I started watching repeats of the show I looked over to my friend and said, “Wow I don’t remember Amy being such a suck up.” 😂😂😂😂

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4 minutes ago, Tabbygirl said:

Yeah seeing how Amy was in the beginning is pretty funny now. I remember the first time I started watching repeats of the show I looked over to my friend and said, “Wow I don’t remember Amy being such a suck up.” 😂😂😂😂

I'm glad she grew out of that, but it was rather funny while it lasted, if for nothing else than how the squad reacted to her (and how much it irritated Provenza; Provenza is one of my favorite cranky pants characters, so anyone/anything that gets him wound up is welcome).  The way Kearran Giovanni totally embraced that aspect of Amy in the audition is how she landed the role, and I agree she did a nice job with it.  I love her performance of Amy's introduction, where she's standing there in the aftermath of a total disaster, but she's not at all intimidated by Provenza because she knows she did everything by the book - to the extent she asks him about the opening in Major Crimes at the scene of an OIS.

The writing and acting created something a bit fascinating, in that Amy was honest in her dissembling; everyone knew what she was doing, and she knew that they knew.  I actually find it an interesting strategy she'd made work.  I appreciate that they showed from the first episode she had skills and smarts, she wasn't just a suck-up.

And I really appreciate that Sharon didn't hold her ambition against her.  She shouldn't - ambition is a good thing, and Amy's tactics weren't evil or even particularly underhanded - but ambition gets treated as a negative in women, and Sharon is the kind of person who would not buy into that sexist notion. 

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7 hours ago, Bastet said:

And I really appreciate that Sharon didn't hold her ambition against her.  She shouldn't - ambition is a good thing, and Amy's tactics weren't evil or even particularly underhanded - but ambition gets treated as a negative in women, and Sharon is the kind of person who would not buy into that sexist notion. 

And yet in The Closer she matter-of-factly told Brenda that Brenda got her advancement by sleeping with the boss, completely negating Brenda’s skills with a sexist line.  I guess we are supposed to think she grew, especially since years later she married one of her subordinates? 
 

Sharon has never been a favorite, but I still enjoy the show for the most part.  Provenza is my favorite!!

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57 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

And yet in The Closer [Sharon] matter-of-factly told Brenda that Brenda got her advancement by sleeping with the boss, completely negating Brenda’s skills with a sexist line.  I guess we are supposed to think she grew, especially since years later she married one of her subordinates? 

I interpreted that line differently, and now that I've located it, I think that's mostly because of the way that section of dialog was written and acted, no matter how offensive that line would typically be:

  • Captain Sharon Raydor:
    You don't think that I wanted to spend my career in Internal Affairs, doing a job that leaves me disliked and mistrusted by my fellow officers every day of my life? No, I chose I.A. because I thought it was the quickest way to achieve rank. And I also thought it'd be good for the department to see a woman in a Captain's uniform. And, of course, you got your job the old-fashioned way.

  • Deputy Chief Brenda Leigh Johnson:
    How's that?

  • Captain Sharon Raydor:
    By sleeping with the boss. That's not an insult. It is a time-honored way of moving forward, but those roads are not open to everyone, and you have the chance to maybe change that a little

  • Deputy Chief Brenda Leigh Johnson:
    So, you're saying I should take the job whether I want it or not.

  • Captain Sharon Raydor:
    Yes. Please make the oh-so-terrible sacrifice of accepting a promotion that offers you more money, prestige, and power than any other job in the city. And, if it will help you with the suffering, you'll not only be a positive role model for little girls all over this country, but I personally will feel very... I will feel very proud to have a Chief that I can truly admire.

    from: quotes.net/movies/the_closer_107108

I hear it in my head as Sharon telling Brenda that Sharon was acknowledging that no matter how skilled or intelligent or well-suited a woman was for an advanced position in the workplace, often the woman would not get the position without pulling some other strings, and that "sleeping with the boss" was one of them (family ties is the only other I can think of off the top of my head).

I haven't watched either show in a while, but I seem to recall Kyra Sedwick's/Brenda's reaction to the line as directing us to interpret the line as more of an acknowledgement of the often still rampant gender discrimination rather than an assault on her character--a reaction which backs up Sharon's stated evaluation of Brenda's value as a potential Chief of Police. 

But it's a pretty tricky line, and pretty unique. I appreciate the nuances of the dialog, but, @Crs97, it never fails to make me bristle a bit.🙃

 

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But it isn’t even true!  IIRC, Brenda had left Pope and that job after she found out he was married.  Their relationship had been over for years when he convinced her to come to LA.

Bottom line - I think if Andy was promoted and someone told him he got the promotion because he was sleeping with Sharon, she’d be pissed on his behalf, even if the person said it wasn’t meant to be insulting.

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37 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

But it isn’t even true!  IIRC, Brenda had left Pope and that job after she found out he was married.  Their relationship had been over for years when he convinced her to come to LA.

Bottom line - I think if Andy was promoted and someone told him he got the promotion because he was sleeping with Sharon, she’d be pissed on his behalf, even if the person said it wasn’t meant to be insulting.

True or not in office politics Pope's wife outed the situation in public. While the squad, I think it was still Priority Homicide at the time, would squash it every other Captain and Commander in the department would have it gnawing at  their gut about the functional Lieutenant, as all the  other team leaders in the department were, that they were forced to call Chief"

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The context was Sharon, in her role as the LAPD Women's Coordinator, vetting Brenda to be an internal candidate for the Chief position, and talking about how having a woman in charge could change things for female officers.  That there have traditionally been very few paths to promotion, and a personal relationship with a man in power shouldn't have to be one of them.

Watching it after knowing Sharon, we know the "sleeping with the boss" shorthand is not how she'd have said it; if she had the same conversation a few years later, the point would be made with different language.  But the writers didn't know Sharon very well back then (they hadn't needed to; she was initially signed only for those three episodes in season five, so newly into her recurring role in season six, they were still figuring her out), and were just barely expanding Brenda's interactions with her to a more nuanced antagonism before letting time develop the spark of mutual respect of "Dead Man's Hand" into what their relationship became over the course of season seven. 

Season six is a transition period in their relationship, and through it and, especially, season seven we learn a little more about Sharon.  But we inevitably don't get to know Sharon outside that one narrow context - it's not just that we only see her at work, we only see her when she's out of her office, interacting with Major Crimes - until Major Crimes unfolds.

As annoying as Rusty and disproportionate amount of attention to him became, I absolutely loved the trajectory of Sharon's relationship with him, so I think an impromptu foster kid was an interesting choice for the bridge between work and home that lets us get to know this character in a new way.  Far better than a love interest, which is usually the go-to choice for an easy way to show an audience another side of a character in a workplace-centered show.

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On 11/13/2021 at 8:27 AM, Crs97 said:

But it isn’t even true!  IIRC, Brenda had left Pope and that job after she found out he was married.  Their relationship had been over for years when he convinced her to come to LA.

Maybe Brenda didn't think she was hired because she had previously "slept with the boss," but at several points (or was it only in one season?) in The Closer, Pope attempts to woo Brenda with fancy dinners and jewelry. IIRC, it's later revealed that Pope's marriage to Estelle was on the rocks when he invited Brenda to apply for the position. It is also revealed in the episode with the poison ivy that Pope was sleeping with a woman from D.C. for at least 6 months while he was still married to Estelle. So, even if Brenda did not have a relationship with Pope anymore when she got the job in LA, Pope likely hoped they would resume sleeping together at some point if she took the job.  
And:

23 hours ago, Raja said:

Pope's wife outed the situation in public

Also, hiring an ex-lover as a Chief of Police who had never been a member of any police department was enough to raise eyebrows.

All of the above serves to explain why Sharon's remarks to Brenda were not catty, but rather an appeal to Brenda as one professional woman to another, and give support to Sharon's character in Major Crimes having not been a retcon of "That Woman!" (as Brenda declared) but rather as Sharon being both shrewd and compassionate--seeking not glory for herself, but greater justice for all.

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I finished up work early this evening, and tuned in for the second half of "Out of Bounds".  I cannot watch either of the beatings (Amy's by Lamar and Lamar's by Julio), but I watch the hell out of Provenza's response to Sharon wondering where her plan went wrong.  Just a few episodes ago, she wouldn't have made herself vulnerable enough to ask him, but if she had, he'd have been condescending about having more homicide investigation experience than she does, and the only way he'd have ever called her by her first name rather than her rank would be as a sign of disrespect.

But, thanks to the self reflection and resulting attitude change he's been undergoing since talking with the life coach intuitive life strategist in episode four, she's willing to ask - in front of others, no less - and he responds by giving a genuine and reassuring response, and calling her "Sharon" for the first time is as a means of connection.  I think it's two-fold for him in that moment (in addition to the fact she'd earlier doubled down without blinking when Taylor threatened her job): He appreciates her asking for his expertise in front of the squad and Taylor, and he respects that, unlike Taylor, she has Amy's well-being, not the case, as her primary concern.

It's the first lovely moment between them. 

Edited by Bastet
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Sharon and Rusty's first hug, in "Cheaters Never Prosper", is just perfectly acted.  Sharon has pulled herself back several times when she's reached out to touch him, respecting his discomfort.  But if she has to let him go spend the weekend at Daniel's, by gods, she's going to send him off with a hug.  She does it in a way that allows him time and space to back out of it if he doesn't want it, and once she has him in her arms, he slowly melts into it.  The look on Graham Patrick Martin's face always makes me sad, thinking about how long it must have been since Rusty got a loving hug.  Then she gives one little extra squeeze before letting go.

I also love when she starts to tell him to be careful, stops herself, and changes to "have a good time".  And I find the "miss you" at the end of his text to tell her he's there and everything is fine cute.

Of course, it all goes to hell the next night.  Despite the horrible circumstances, it's another beautiful moment between them when he finally tells her the whole story of how he wound up abandoned at the zoo (the he finally fought back the last time his mom's boyfriend beat him, and the next day they dropped him off there and took off together).

And, of course, "We have moved on to the 'please don't let me drive over to his house and shoot him in the head' phase."  I love Mama Bear Sharon.

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I finished up work early and just turned on "All In" during the scene where they're searching the Dietz home, and it amused me again how great the set decoration is; that family is all about amassing wealth and keeping up appearances, but they are totally basic so have spent their money on utterly generic wall art, furniture, and other décor.  It is so perfectly done!  It took me several viewings to pick up on it, and now I grin every time.

Spending time on the little things counts, and I appreciate it. Just like the scene I saw last night in "Pick Your Poison", when Sykes is talking to the teacher in her classroom.  Near the end of their conversation, the bell rings, so when Amy opens the door to leave, there are kids streaming down the hallway.  There is absolutely no plot necessity to set that scene during a period break, but movement creates visual interest and the bell/kids are further set dressing to make that location feel like a classroom, so they spent the money to hire extras and the time to herd them back into place for each take.

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I just watched the episode in which Luke Perry guest-starred. I had never seen it before. What a great episode! RIP Luke :( . But I loved learning the backstory of how Mike got involved with Badge of Justice. Mike Tao was definitely one of the show’s more underrated actors.

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"Cutting Loose" is one of my favorites.  Luke Perry does a great job as Jon Worth, and is clearly having a blast.  Quite possibly because he was one of Hollywood's few nice, down to earth guys, he really brings to life the balance the writers crafted in Jon - that he's lived this life of fame and fortune for so long he is completely out of touch with "the real world", but he's not a jerk.  He's actually quite respectful and kind-hearted, but he lives in the celebrity universe.  I always like when they poke fun at their own industry on this show; they do it better than most. 

I love that learning Pope recommended Mike for the consultant gig means every single time after this that Badge of Justice comes up, Andy gets cranky.  (I also like the shot of Andy giving Jon his card at the party; he is such a doofus.)

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I just watched the end of "Penalty Phase" during a break in football.  I come to really dislike Gus by the end of the series, and bringing him back for Slider's trial with the hots for Rusty when he hadn't been written or performed that way during his initial arc creates a real "WTF?" feeling I have to set aside as their relationship begins, but I have to give it up for his response to Rusty saying he has no idea how to date anyone:  "Nobody likes dating.  It's the best thing about this whole situation - we already know each other."

When you really sit and think about it, though, Rusty saying he has no idea how to date is terribly sad; he's had more sexual encounters than a lot of people twice his age, but none of them were of his free will, with someone he liked. 

Between what he saw go on with his biological mom and the crappy men in her life and then what was done to him on the streets, his relationship to sex is pretty warped.  They never get too much into how that affects his first romantic experience, but I'm glad he has Dr. Joe and Sharon - and a Gus who, back at this point, is patient with him.

(That kid had such a hard life for such a long time, and that's not any less sad because he has annoying qualities and Duff's focus on his mini-me was aggravating.)

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I love how perfect everyone's reactions to Sharon getting hit by the killer boyfriend in "Heart Failure" are - Provenza checks on her, knowing Julio will tackle the suspect (which Julio does, but, this being season five Julio who's learned how to control himself, he does it lawfully).  Andy and Amy take off out of Electronics, while Buzz jumps up to block Rusty from joining them, which he of course had attempted to do.  And then, in the interrogation room, Andy stands down with a simple "No" from Sharon.  (Can you imagine how pissed she'd have been at him if she'd taken a hit so they had something to hold the guy on, and he messed that up by beating up a cuffed suspect?)  It's all exactly what each character would do.

It's also a perfect touch that afterward, when Sharon is talking to Andrea, Rusty stares at the red spot on her face the entire time.

And I love that Rusty's "Wow, my mom is a badass" is followed by a cut to Sharon whimpering "Ow".  Punches never hurt on TV (or mess up anyone's hand), so I like the acknowledgment that you don't just shrug off getting hit in the face.

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I caught Sharon's promotion scene during halftime tonight, and I'm glad as I could never tire of watching that.  She joined IA - doing a job that left her "disliked and mistrusted by my fellow officers every day of my life" - because it was the quickest way to achieve rank, which she wanted for herself (and the kids she was raising on her own) and because she also "thought it would be good for the department to see a woman in a captain's uniform".

And then she saw men like Taylor get promoted while she stalled, and then had Pope and Taylor renege on an explicit promise to make her a commander, even after she got put in charge of the Department's elite division.

Her work as the LAPD's Women's Coordinator succeeded in making things a bit better for the women coming up behind her, so younger women like McGinnis outrank her.  But she remained stuck at Captain.

As she tells Mason, she'd "completely let go of this".  She'd resigned herself to the fact it was never going to happen (because if Taylor wouldn't do it when she took over Major Crimes, or when four years later he congratulated her on solving "the biggest outstanding case in LAPD history" [the murders of Officer Reese and DDA Gray], he was never going to do it, and she didn't fathom he'd be gone before her), and, for her own mental health, let go of hoping for it and thinking about the unfairness of not getting it, instead concentrating on the fact she was nonetheless the happiest she'd ever been professionally.

When she finally gets her due, it's a fantastic moment that I feel in a special way beyond happiness for this one fictional character I love so much -- it resonates with me as a woman.

There's much I like in season six, but given how it ends, there's an alternate universe I like to live in sometimes, where "Shockwave" is the end of the series.

Edited by Bastet
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