Russian Doll - General Discussion

[Milburn Stone]

I don't know what Netflix means by "cliffhanger," but the one thing that struck me as still being in want of resolution is how in the last glimpses we see of the parade, Alan has dropped back a few paces behind Nadia. And not just a few paces as in "we're still together, but we're independent people, so we don't have to walk in lockstep," but a few paces as in they're complete strangers with no knowledge of each other who just happen to be marching in the same parade. The good news is their timelines have merged so they're sharing the same reality which really seems like reality as we know it, but until Season 2, I won't know whether they move forward together or apart.

That doesn't mean I disagree with the interpretation that the show is all about the need to connect. Just whether they both fully know that truth in their current reality, or need to learn it again.

This is the first show I've ever seen that I want to rewatch. Even shows I thought were absolutely amazing, I'm like, "that was amazing, what's next?" But this show I want to rewatch from the beginning, not to pick up on things I missed, but just because I want to experience it all again. Which is ironic, because that will mean the show has put me in the same loop as Nadia and Alan.

[lucindabelle]

On 2/5/2019 at 12:13 PM, Corgi-ears said:

The parade was probably a reference to the 1988 Tompkins Square riots. That, at least, is the theory put forth by critic Jason Zinoman on this twitter thread, which you can also read Gothamist's summary of. Natasha Lyonne and Leslye Headland tweeted back and essentially confirmed Zinoman's reading.

They did use 80s music, but didn't everybody have cell phones? There were texts. Nobody had cell phones in 1988. We barely even had cordless. Definitely a kind of 80s vibe though including her padded shoulder jackets and the number of homeless people you see around. (No longer true in most of NYC. They exist but are not everywhere as they were then.)

Creepy. I looked for it in drama.

Unexplained: why couldn't her friend go out in the last scene? Why were the mirrors disappearing? What made them come back? Why did the people disappear?

Why did LUCY say "she's still in there?'

What do you mean, her mom wasn't crazy? She looked pretty nuts to me. We don't learn how she died at 35 but I'm guessing suicide.

Little Nadia looked exactly like big Nadia. Great casting.

Mike was unappealing. And he looked about 20 years older than Nadia.Why did she want to sleep with him in the first place?

And what about OATMEAL? After several loops in which finding Oatmeal was a thing he was just forgotten about.

[Keywestclubkid]

just finished this ... loved it 

[Keywestclubkid]

I always saw this show specifically as a ghost story. This person is haunted by something and what we’re going to do is that we’re going to watch her escape that and make peace with that.

When initially pitched, Nadia was a presence throughout all three of them. But it was not in a very conventional way, if that makes sense. She was always a presence, as we knew Lyonne would always be the beating heart and soul of this show. Whether she was being haunted or she was haunting the narrative, she would be there.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/russian-doll-ending-explained-season-2-interview-1182320

[methodwriter85]

On 2/15/2019 at 9:08 PM, lucindabelle said:

Definitely a kind of 80s vibe though including her padded shoulder jackets and the number of homeless people you see around. (No longer true in most of NYC. They exist but are not everywhere as they were then.

I think the idea is that Nadia is supposed to represent "Old" New York- gritty, rough New York that doesn't really exist anymore after the city was cleaned up in the 1990's.

I think Alan represents Modern New York, in the sense that he's a square New York type living in a pretty modern condo compared to Nadia's digs.

[Rickster]

Maybe I caught Tompkins Square Park on an odd day, but I saw quite a lot of homeless people when I was there two summers ago (who were not there a year previously). I do think the old vs new NY is an interesting perspective.

[jhlipton]

On 2/2/2019 at 7:30 PM, Samsnee said:

I thought the ending was a little too rushed in the way that the the original versions of themselves so quickly trusted the versions that had been through the loops. It took them several tries to get that trust and the original versions had it in 15 minutes. I took the ending to mean that the timelines got merged.

Alan telling Nadia exactly (down to the penny) how much of her college fund that her mom wasted was a big step!

On 2/9/2019 at 4:28 PM, MisterGlass said:

There were several references to video games, including to Nadia's somewhat meta game about a lone female protagonist, and game Easter eggs.

That's the cliffhanger!!!  How do you get the girl past the Fiery Pit of DOOOOOOM!!!!?

[Quilt Fairy]

I knew nothing about this show until it popped up on "Recommended for you" on Netflix.  Given just the title, I seriously thought it was a spy drama.  Anyone else?

[meep.meep]

There was lots of press for this before it started on Netflix.

I just finished, and loved it.  The point when her aunt turned on the burner to make her tea, and the apartment didn't explode was incredibly powerful.  As well as her friend walking her down the front stairs.

I don't think that ending was a cliff hanger, but I can see how they could make more seasons, but not unless Natasha Lyonne isn't the main star.  But I am willing to be surprised.

Maybe someone can explain why all the fruit was going rotten.

[SoMuchTV]

On 2/9/2019 at 7:28 PM, MisterGlass said:

If there were a second season, I think it would have to be other characters stuck in a loop.

Maybe it could be Oatmeal and the fish? Just kidding, I wouldn't want to see Oatmeal or even the nameless fish go through the kind of stuff Nadia and Alan did.

Anyway, just finished bingeing over the last couple of days, and I thought it was definitely worth watching.

Others have compared it in various ways to The Good Place.  I was getting a bit of a Chidi vibe from Alan, but when the air conditioner fell on him, well...

While I was watching (and didn't want to read this thread for fear of spoilers), I was checking out IMDB, and it was interesting to see that the user rating for each episode was higher than the previous ones.  That was kind of how I felt - just a little more invested with each next episode.  Although I'm a little unsure how I felt about the ending.  Will be interesting to hear other thoughts on that.

But OMG the smoking!  I can handle the drugs and casual sex, but does anyone really still smoke that much?  No, I'm sure they do, but it seemed like it was almost everyone!

Edited February 23, 2019 by SoMuchTV
more thoughts

[SomeTameGazelle]

2 hours ago, meep.meep said:

I don't think that ending was a cliff hanger, but I can see how they could make more seasons, but not unless Natasha Lyonne isn't the main star.  But I am willing to be surprised.

I don't know whether it would work to have the same type of loop, but I thought perhaps there could be areas to explore with Nadia's relationship with her mother and with John and his daughter that would be interesting and rewarding. (Or maybe the same people could just adapt Emily of New Moon for me. The 1998 series was not to my taste.)

Quote

Maybe someone can explain why all the fruit was going rotten.

I think that seeing the fruit and flowers dying and fish and people disappearing indicated to Nadia that even though she was stuck in the loop, there was a level at which time was progressing and those things were not getting the regular care and maintenance they needed. 

[snarktini]

4 hours ago, SomeTameGazelle said:

I think that seeing the fruit and flowers dying and fish and people disappearing indicated to Nadia that even though she was stuck in the loop, there was a level at which time was progressing and those things were not getting the regular care and maintenance they needed. 

What struck me was how advanced the decomposition was on some. They went through ~15 reboots? Something like that. Most one day each, some two-ish. That was a lot of mold on oranges for a week or two! (Depends on the fruit. Peaches mold fast. I thought I remembered some oranges, which definitely go a lot longer than that. The flowers made sense.)

Also, why did no one else seem to notice? Could only she see that, because of how she was experiencing time?

[helenamonster]

On 2/23/2019 at 5:01 PM, SoMuchTV said:

Maybe it could be Oatmeal and the fish? Just kidding, I wouldn't want to see Oatmeal or even the nameless fish go through the kind of stuff Nadia and Alan did.

What's funny is the fish aren't even nameless--Max's are Ketchup and Mustard and Alan's is Boba Fett. And, as Nadia said, it's a myth that fish don't have memories...so I'd say the possibility of Oatmeal and the fish going through a time loop is not completely off the table!

On 2/23/2019 at 9:23 PM, snarktini said:

Also, why did no one else seem to notice? Could only she see that, because of how she was experiencing time?

That's the vibe I got. In the overarching discussion of parallel universes, there was some hinting that every loop except the original isn't actually real, or is not the timeline that Nadia and Alan truly belong to. In the loop where only Max is in the apartment and Nadia begs her to come with her to the deli, she says she can't--an implication that she's not "real" and she knows it.

I just saw Happy Death Day 2U yesterday and there are now even more similarities between that franchise and this show, so I'm trying not to conflate the "rules" of each one too much. But HDD2U also deals with parallel universes and there is a discussion of the main character only truly belonging to one of them.

[tennisgurl]

5 hours ago, helenamonster said:

so I'd say the possibility of Oatmeal and the fish going through a time loop is not completely off the table!

Now I just picture Oatmeal, Ketchup, and Mustard waking up every day to a fish/cat version of "Gotta Get Up Gotta Get Out..."and being like "Damn it, not again!"

Edited February 25, 2019 by tennisgurl

[SoMuchTV]

4 hours ago, helenamonster said:

What's funny is the fish aren't even nameless--Max's are Ketchup and Mustard and Alan's is Boba Fett.

Oh I missed that (or forgot it).  I do remember Ketchup and Mustard, but not Boba Fett.

[AngelKitty]

On 2/21/2019 at 11:45 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

Given just the title, I seriously thought it was a spy drama.  Anyone else?

Yes! I thought it was going to be like Red Sparrow until I finally saw something about the time loop and decided to try it. And so glad I did as I enjoyed this so much. Then I couldn't find this thread because I looked under Other Genre, thinking sci-fi, then Drama, then sort of tried to find out how to start a thread, then decided to use the search option and, yay, I found it.

Loved reading all your comments and theories.

One of the fun things for me was after Alan was introduced, seeing all the mutual people in each other's lives.

[Rinaldo]

On 2/23/2019 at 5:01 PM, SoMuchTV said:

Maybe it could be Oatmeal and the fish?

In his interviews about the show, Charlie Barnett (Alan) semi-jokingly proposed that they could do an extra hour (sort of like how British shows will have a Christmas Special separate from regular seasons but still part of the story) looking at the whole series of events from Oatmeal's point of view. 

On 2/15/2019 at 9:08 PM, lucindabelle said:

Mike was unappealing. And he looked about 20 years older than Nadia. Why did she want to sleep with him in the first place?

Jeremy Bobb is in fact two years younger than Natasha Lyonne. They look about the same age to me. And of course his character was written to be dislikable, though I can see enough attractiveness there to explain a drunken one-time hookup.

[Milburn Stone]

1 minute ago, Rinaldo said:

Jeremy Bobb is in fact two years younger than Natasha Lyonne. They look about the same age to me. And of course his character was written to be dislikable, though I can see enough attractiveness there to explain a drunken one-time hookup.

In further defense of the acting and writing, I think the character actually began to come off as reasonable despite his initial loathsomeness. When he said to Alan, "She doesn't want me...she just wants not-you" (or however he said it), it was hard to quibble with his insight.

[Athena]

On 3/6/2019 at 4:39 PM, Milburn Stone said:

In further defense of the acting and writing, I think the character actually began to come off as reasonable despite his initial loathsomeness. When he said to Alan, "She doesn't want me...she just wants not-you" (or however he said it), it was hard to quibble with his insight.

He also said the line about how he wasn't a choice, that he was "the hole where the choice should be." Mike seemed to have some self-awareness to what an ass he was. There were also indications that he seemed to really like Beatrice beyond a hook-up; they were having a regular affair. He took his baby to her place and he even says to Nadia in the finale that it was early days with Beatrice, but he seemed to want more.

In the Pop Culture Happy Hour review of the episode, they highlighted the acting and writing of the character as being much more realistic and less broad than most TV douchebags. Yes, he is a jerk with a lot of issues, but he seemed more real and similar to the type of slimey men you would meet in real life. There were moments where he did some half-appealing (especially if you were under the influence). 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 3/6/2019 at 4:36 PM, Rinaldo said:

On 2/15/2019 at 9:08 PM, lucindabelle said:

Mike was unappealing. And he looked about 20 years older than Nadia. Why did she want to sleep with him in the first place?

Jeremy Bobb is in fact two years younger than Natasha Lyonne. They look about the same age to me. And of course his character was written to be dislikable, though I can see enough attractiveness there to explain a drunken one-time hookup.

Wasn't Nadia's whole thing that she was self-destructive?  The worse the guy, the more likely she was to sleep with him.  The nicer the guy, the more she pushed him away.  I think she would have seriously considered sleeping with the homeless guy if he had asked, and she was drunk enough.

Edited March 8, 2019 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Quilt Fairy]

18 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I think she would have seriously considered sleeping with the homeless guy if he had asked, and she was drunk enough.

Well, she actually did sleep with the homeless guy while drunk in one iteration.  (That's the one where she froze to death.)   They just didn't have sex.

[atlantaloves]

Okay, thanks guys, now I am gonna finish watching all the episodes....you have helped me figure out this show is worth my time even though it does kinda gross me out.  I love her, so I shall watch it. (and yes folks, people in New York do actually smoke that much)

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Every "sweet birthday baby" in S1:

Things you may have missed:

[Tisharp]

I have loved Natasha Lyonne since Slums of Beverly Hills (if you haven't seen it, stop what you’re doing and find it somewhere and watch it!) Yes, she’s a little one note, but she does it so damn good. 

Alan broke my heart, so I am definitely glad he maybe found happiness in one of the loops and I want to see where things go from here. 

I hope season two or three ends with a Six Feet Under type death scene montage of all of the important characters. 

[Rinaldo]

That "Things You May Have Missed" video had some good bits (I'd read that the three EMTs/coders/deli guys were the same but it was cool to see it shown, even if it seems more like a cute casting choice than anything that could be significant within the story). But others like the disappearing fish and ring are spotlit as crucial developments -- who could miss them if they were halfway paying attention? I also wonder why some reviews, and this official Netflix video, calls the place a bodega when all the characters within the show refer to it as a deli. (Not that one term is inherently better than the other, but why go against the script?)

[helenamonster]

12 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Every "sweet birthday baby" in S1:

Things you may have missed:

I can't believe I missed that the video game developers, guys doing whippets at the deli, and ambulance workers were all the same dudes. That is a great easter egg.

[Quilt Fairy]

On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 12:38 PM, Rinaldo said:

But others like the disappearing fish and ring are spotlit as crucial developments -- who could miss them if they were halfway paying attention?

It's easy to miss the full fish tank in the first iteration - how would you know that's something to pay attention to?  Especially when, in a subsequent iteration, Maxine specifically confirms that she only has 2 fish (and they have names).  It doesn't strike you as being "off" like the rotting flowers and food do.

I just re-watched the whole season a few days ago, and it's so smart and well-done.  And even knowing when some of the deaths are coming, there are others that catch you unawares and make you jump.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Yul Vazquez discusses Russian Doll and I Am the Night

[ClareWalks]

So good and I loved the finale. It was wrapped up so nicely that I actually wish it was the series finale. Loved that Alan and Nadia developed such a nice genuine friendship that won't necessarily turn romantic (one drunk tryst notwithstanding). Nadia was also very charismatic and could instantly charm others, like the anti-smoking guy.

[snarktini]

On 3/9/2019 at 10:38 AM, Rinaldo said:

That "Things You May Have Missed" video had some good bits (I'd read that the three EMTs/coders/deli guys were the same but it was cool to see it shown, even if it seems more like a cute casting choice than anything that could be significant within the story). But others like the disappearing fish and ring are spotlit as crucial developments -- who could miss them if they were halfway paying attention? I also wonder why some reviews, and this official Netflix video, calls the place a bodega when all the characters within the show refer to it as a deli. (Not that one term is inherently better than the other, but why go against the script?)

I caught that the EMTs and deli jerks were the same and thought I'd found an interesting clue -- she ends up tangling with the same guys two different ways, like it's fated. But then I heard someone describe the deli guys as Wall Street types so they couldn't be the same characters and I didn't know what to think. Glad I wasn't nuts.

In my head I think of it as a bodega, esp since it has a Bodega Cat! I'd never heard of a deli cat but according to a quick search that's a common AKA so that shows how little I know. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Kel Varnsen]

Watched this in about 3 days after my wife and I caught the trailer. It was good, really good, but also super weird. Glad they had the hook of the repeat life since a show just about Natasha Lyonne and her weird NYC super cool artsy person life sounds like it would be super annoying.

I never really cared for Natasha Lyonne one way or the other but she really made me interested in what happed to her character so that was pretty interesting. I wasn't 100% sure what exactly she had to get past with respect to her mom and how it related to the kid but I might come up with something after a day or 2 thinking on it. Also just so I am clear everything with her mom and the watermelons was just pure mental illness right?

I liked Alan a lot and it really worked that he was someone so different than Nadia. Plus it was cool seeing the guy who used to be Peter Mills doing something good when Chicago Fire has steadily gotten worse and worse (and dumber and dumber) since his character was written off.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

FYI - Natasha Lyonne was a guest judge on this week's episode of RuPaul's Drag Race (S11.E9: LADP!).

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Natasha Lyonne at the Met Gala in a Klaus Nomi inspired outfit

[MisterGlass]

It certainly gets your attention.  Reminds me a little of a costume from Star Trek.

[rab01]

On 4/4/2019 at 7:33 PM, snarktini said:

In my head I think of it as a bodega, esp since it has a Bodega Cat! I'd never heard of a deli cat but according to a quick search that's a common AKA so that shows how little I know. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I live in NY and think of the type of place they showed as a typical bodega but would probably say "deli" to someone else.   Most stores like that in Manhattan have "deli" or "market" in their names while few have "bodega" in their signage.  Looking around online suggests that both usages are correct for the store we were shown.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

OMG this is the purse that Natasha Lyonne had with her at the Met Gala. It’s a giant pill filled with cigarettes!

[nachomama]

I saw that and I guess of all of her vices I can't really yell at her for smoking when so many other things almost killed her. If she grows old to sound like Elizabeth Ashley, at least she grows old. The other stuff would kill her quicker.

[BuyMoreAndSave]

First impression after the first episode...this is the most pretentious show I've ever seen in my life. Also got a laugh out of the NCIS-level inaccurate scene where she was coding...compiling, what's that?

Edited May 18, 2019 by BuyMoreAndSave

[BuyMoreAndSave]

On 2/15/2019 at 9:08 PM, lucindabelle said:

Definitely a kind of 80s vibe though including her padded shoulder jackets and the number of homeless people you see around. (No longer true in most of NYC. They exist but are not everywhere as they were then.)

Actually the number of homeless people has vastly increased in NYC the past few years and is now at record highs. My dad has been going to Manhattan since the 60s and he said he's never seen as many as there are now.

[Jennabelle88]

On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 9:30 PM, Samsnee said:

Not sure what they could do for a second season but I’ll be interested. 

Same.

On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 9:30 AM, quarks said:

1. Why were there now three Nadias?

Y'all are much more observant than I am. I never noticed three Nadias, nor did I see Alan walking alongside her when their timelines merged. I literally thought, "Where tf did he go? Is he dead again?" lol

On ‎2‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 9:31 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Russian Doll’s Lizzie on Acting in Her Wife’s Breakout TV Hit

Who's her wife?

[Jennabelle88]

On ‎2‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 4:01 PM, SoMuchTV said:

But OMG the smoking!  I can handle the drugs and casual sex, but does anyone really still smoke that much?  No, I'm sure they do, but it seemed like it was almost everyone!

This! My lungs literally hurt after every episode. I'm a former smoker myself (I now vape) so no judgment at all, but dang!

I also didn't get the whole deal with the small Nadia and grown Nadia having to fix things with her mother. I'm just confused on all that. I get the gist that she thinks she killed her mother because she stated she wanted to live with Ruby, but... huh? How is she supposed to fix things if her mother's dead? And what does any of this have to do with the fact that both Nadia and Alan kept dying because they didn't bother saving one another? I liked the show, but it left me scratching my head.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 2/13/2019 at 7:31 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Russian Doll’s Lizzie on Acting in Her Wife’s Breakout TV Hit

3 minutes ago, Jennabelle88 said:

Who's her wife?

“I’m a real caretaker with my wife and my friends. That’s probably the biggest overlap between me and Lizzie,” she told me one February afternoon at a tapas bar near the Bed-Stuy home she shares with her wife Leslye Headland, the show's co-creator.

[Jennabelle88]

2 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

“I’m a real caretaker with my wife and my friends. That’s probably the biggest overlap between me and Lizzie,” she told me one February afternoon at a tapas bar near the Bed-Stuy home she shares with her wife Leslye Headland, the show's co-creator. 

Thanks. I just got busted for being too lazy to read the article! Haha

[suomi]

Quote

Gotta get up, gotta get out, gotta get home before the morning comes because "Russian Doll" has been renewed for a second season at Netflix.

The second season of the Natasha Lyonne-led dark comedy will consist of eight-episodes, just like Season 1, which launched on the streaming service in February.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/russian-doll-renewed-for-season-2-by-netflix/ar-AACJES1

[helenamonster]

Not only am I excited to see what else this team can deliver in a second season, but I'm just really happy for Natasha. She looks so thrilled in this lil video and I just want good things for her. She's a real one.

[ursula]

A second season for this is a big mistake. TV writers, there's nothing wrong with a show ending. Yikes!

[BuyMoreAndSave]

9 hours ago, ursula said:

A second season for this is a big mistake. TV writers, there's nothing wrong with a show ending. Yikes!

I'll reserve judgment until I see what they came up with. I heard they had three seasons planned out before the show even got picked up.

[For Cereals]

On 3/7/2019 at 6:27 PM, Athena said:

He also said the line about how he wasn't a choice, that he was "the hole where the choice should be." Mike seemed to have some self-awareness to what an ass he was. There were also indications that he seemed to really like Beatrice beyond a hook-up; they were having a regular affair. He took his baby to her place and he even says to Nadia in the finale that it was early days with Beatrice, but he seemed to want more.

In the Pop Culture Happy Hour review of the episode, they highlighted the acting and writing of the character as being much more realistic and less broad than most TV douchebags. Yes, he is a jerk with a lot of issues, but he seemed more real and similar to the type of slimey men you would meet in real life. There were moments where he did some half-appealing (especially if you were under the influence). 

He also has a bit of a Jack Nicholson vibe...

[Booger666]

On 2/12/2019 at 12:03 PM, snarktini said:

I found her more annoying than likable. Happily, just about the time I was wondering if I could make it through, Alan appeared. I liked and identified with him a lot. He really grounded the story for me. The other characters were good, too. Her friends were fun.

I felt the same way.  I’ve seen Natasha do this character for years so in addition to being annoying it’s boring at this point.  I enjoyed all the other actors and loved the writing.

[Chaos Theory]

No wonder it took me so long to find this group.   Comedy huh?  Would guess this as a comedy at all.

Been a huge fan of Natasha Lyonne from way back to her “But I’m a Cheerleader” days.  You would hardly recognize her.  Anyway I am still only about a third of the way through this.   Mostly because other shiny things come up to watch.  But I really like this 

On 2/23/2019 at 5:01 PM, SoMuchTV said:

But OMG the smoking!  I can handle the drugs and casual sex, but does anyone really still smoke that much?  No, I'm sure they do, but it seemed like it was almost everyone!

I think that alone is hilarious.  Drugs and casual sex are perfectly fine but have a cigarette and some people lose their shit.   Both me and my sister use to smoke.  My sister quit when she decided to start a family.   The only reason i quit is because I am cheap.....and my mother offered me money.   

Its funny thx one thing I find weird is people who don’t smoke on tv who probably should.   I laugh at nitpicking but THAT pisses me off.