The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

[ChelseaNH]

it should be transparent and under ultimate authority of the US government

 

Why is it that the US gets to be in charge?  Other than geographical convenience.  Bucky was a US citizen but he's been legally dead for decades.  There's an interesting legal drama to be had about the process of establishing his identity, if you're into legal dramas.

[stealinghome]

I don't think Captain America is the person who should decide that. Bucky can use brainwashing as a defense, but it's up to him to convince people that it's a real, meaningful defense. There should be a process for holding him to trial. Maybe it should be S.H.I.E.L.D. connected rather than criminal/civil, but IMHO, it should be transparent and under ultimate authority of the US government.

The trailer for Civil War has Steve saying to Bucky "Well the people who think you did are coming right now. And they're not planning on taking you alive." That doesn't sound like any sort of fair, transparent, fairly overseen trial to me.

 

Also, way before any lawyer gets a crack at him, Bucky needs to go see a psychologist. Or a hundred psychologists.

 

I also don't think what happened to Bucky is the same as Hawkeye or Selvig, who were magically mind controlled for a short time with additional witnesses who can testify to Loki's actions and power. What happened to Bucky seems to be most comparable to Black Widow, and we don't know what deals were/weren't made that resulted in Black Widow working for S.H.I.E.L.D. instead of being brought to trial. Also, Black Widow clearly considers herself to still be responsible for her actions.

There's no evidence that what was done to Natasha was nearly as...for lack of a better term, mentally dehumanizing and invasive...as what was done to Bucky, though. In fact, I would argue that Bucky is way more comparable to Hawkeye or Selvig. Bucky's body was a meat puppet for decades. HYDRA wiped his mind and the Winter Soldier had no clue who he really was. And the Winter Soldier wasn't really capable of independent thought. He was like a robot--HYDRA took him out when they needed him, actually wiped his mind, and put him back in cryo until they needed him again. Meat puppet with no control over actions doing stuff at the whim of their controller(s) sounds like Hawkeye or Selvig to me.

 

But that's not what happened to Natasha, from what we can tell. I'm not downplaying the horror of what the Red Room did to her, but at least from what we've seen so far, it seems to have been way more "child conditioning/programming" than "actually wiping her mind." Which is utterly awful, absolutely, but Natasha seems to have still been Natasha throughout everything she did for the Red Room and after but pre-SHIELD (which is part of the horror of the situation and her pathos). She wasn't a meat puppet. Whereas I think it's quite clear the Winter Soldier was not Bucky.

 

God, I don't even like Bucky much and Sebastian Stan hasn't overly impressed me. But I'm pulling so hard for Team Steve here.

Edited January 4, 2016 by stealinghome

[nobodyyoucare]

Why is it that the US gets to be in charge?  Other than geographical convenience.  Bucky was a US citizen but he's been legally dead for decades.  There's an interesting legal drama to be had about the process of establishing his identity, if you're into legal dramas.

SHIELD in this universe seems to be a quasi entirely or largely US organization not a UN funded/oversight one. Hence the homeland part in the name. 

[Emily Thrace]

He looks like the sloth from the Ice Age movies to me. I didn't have an opinion about him personally one way or the other until he agreed to whitewash Khan Noonian Singh and to portray Alan Turing as an actual potentially traitorous security risk thanks to his sexuality. He needs to earn a lot of brownie points from me as Dr. Strange, whereas everyone else in the cast already has them to burn.

 

Yeah it wasn't even the whitewashing it was the way he reacted to blowback that left a bad taste in my mouth. He came across as clueless at best and arrogant at worst. The fact that Tom Hiddleston got popular around the same time really didn't help his cause with me either. The comparison between those just shows how little excuse Cumbatch has for being ignorant (considering his recent role as a trans person it seems he has yet to learn anything from his experiences), Tom has always worked so hard to prove just because your a posh Eton old money type doesn't mean you have to be a prick. Although all this talk about "mysticism" has me skeptical about Dr Strange anyway, that's something that will either really work or just be really funny.

 

God, I don't even like Bucky much and Sebastian Stan hasn't overly impressed me. But I'm pulling so hard for Team Steve here.

 

You should watch Kings you don't even have to watch the a whole episode just watch the scene with Stan and Ian McShane on the stairs. That should reassure you about Sebastian Stan at least. I haven't even watched the show in years and I still remember that scene. Although I have to wonder exactly what he's done that's so unimpressive he only had eight lines last movie and only about five minutes where he actually talking in the first one.

[angora]

I cosign the Kings recommendation - it's the first thing I ever saw Sebastian Stan in, and it's still my favorite role of his.  I'm hopeful that Civil War will be his opportunity to really show us his Bucky (he was a little generic-best-friend in The First Avenger, and he has so few lines in The Winter Soldier, though I love his scene with Pierce after seeing Cap on the bridge.)  If we can get that darkness and damage combined with remembering who he is and where he came from, I think he'll be great.

[Dandesun]

I'm hopeful that Civil War will be his opportunity to really show us his Bucky (he was a little generic-best-friend in The First Avenger, and he has so few lines in The Winter Soldier, though I love his scene with Pierce after seeing Cap on the bridge.)  If we can get that darkness and damage combined with remembering who he is and where he came from, I think he'll be great.

 

"That man on the bridge... I knew him..."

 

Yeah, I'm very interested in seeing where they take Bucky. He's so vastly different from Steve but I can see him going down a road to earn some redemption. He may well end up a lot like Natasha ('there's red in my ledger') but having more of the James Buchanan Barnes warring with the ingrained Winter Soldier. I think it could be very interesting and make for good dynamics as the MCU progresses.

[Kel Varnsen]

As I recall in the original Avengers comics back in the 60s, the conflict always seemed to be between Tony and Thor.

During Operation Galactic Storm in the 90's the big internal conflict was Cap wanting go let the Kree Supreme Intelligence go fres and Tony leading the group wanting to kill the green bastard.

[Rick Kitchen]

Avengers:Infinity War will have 67 characters.

[Trini]

Completely misleading. No one will know how many characters will be in it until editing is done. They mean that there are at least 67 that are in consideration. They aren't even done with the script yet.

[JessePinkman]

Oh god that headline, whenever there are more than 10 characters in a movie everyone expects them to have an "arc". It's called Infinity WAR, some of the characters will just be there to fight and that's FINE. It's not like you're hurting for character development with Marvel releasing 3 movies a year.

[vb68]

I'm definitely excited over Ryan Coogler directing Black Panther.

 

Hopefully that puts an end to the notion that Marvel can't or won't hire top flight directors. 

[Eegah]

Plus, before signing him they went to Ava DuVernay and F. Gary Grey, showing how much the studio respects that this movie needed to have a black director (I'm kind of surprised Antoine Fuqua never seemed to come up in discussion).

 

After Coogler was signed, it hit me that this must be what it was like to watch Steven Spielberg's early career a decade before I was born. It's truly mind-blowing how quickly he's climbed the ranks to being an A-list director on sheer talent.

[nobodyyoucare]

Completely misleading. No one will know how many characters will be in it until editing is done. They mean that there are at least 67 that are in consideration. They aren't even done with the script yet.

Also character often means everyone on the IMDB cast list. In other words guys that may be on film for 20 seconds to deliver a line or two. 

 

Force Awakens had over 130 characters. But if you asked people would swear up and down there were maybe eight or ten. 

[Kel Varnsen]

Plus, before signing him they went to Ava DuVernay and F. Gary Grey, showing how much the studio respects that this movie needed to have a black director (I'm kind of surprised Antoine Fuqua never seemed to come up in discussion).

In this case, based on who they hired does it make a difference though (other than from a PR standpoint)? When I used to read Black Panther comics back in the 90's during the Christopher Priest run (which was awesome) one of the things he talked about both in the book and online (on a newsgroup from what I remember) was how T'challa's story was the story of an African character not an African-American character. Ryan Coogler sounds like an interesting choice and could probably make a good movie (I hope it is because I love the character), but at the same time he is from Oakland. So does his race make him any more qualified to make a movie about a king of central Africa than any other director? 

Edited January 16, 2016 by Kel Varnsen

[anna0852]

Has it ever been established if Tony knew Peggy Carter growing up? She and Howard clearly remained close business associates/friends until he died. Stands to reason Tony would have known her as well. Might a mutual fondness for Agent Carter be something that Steve and Tony can bond over?

[Rick Kitchen]

The Deadpool effect.  Fox says the next Wolverine movie will be rated R.

[ChelseaNH]

If it's easier to tell the kind of story they want to tell with an R rating, that's a good thing.

If they think that an R rating will help the box office returns, that's a bad thing.

[Bruinsfan]

Either way, if Hugh Jackman goes full frontal I'm sending a gift basket to Reynolds.

[SeanC]

Has it ever been established if Tony knew Peggy Carter growing up? She and Howard clearly remained close business associates/friends until he died. Stands to reason Tony would have known her as well. Might a mutual fondness for Agent Carter be something that Steve and Tony can bond over?

They haven't said anything about that either way.  Tony had no idea at all that his father was connected with SHIELD, indeed, he'd never even heard of it (which seems a bit of a stretch, in retrospect).

 

James Gunn posts about Guardians 2, including a few new castmembers, like Elizabeth Debicki.  He also confirmed on Twitter that Pom Klementieff is playing Mantis.

Edited February 17, 2016 by SeanC

[Dandesun]

He also confirmed Kurt Russell which makes me all kinds of happy.

[AimingforYoko]

Yeah, Russell as Daddy Star-Lord is kind of perfect.

[vb68]

I don't know Elizabeth Debicki.   Any idea on who she might be playing?

[SeanC]

I don't know Elizabeth Debicki.   Any idea on who she might be playing?

The other female Guardians of the iteration of the team this is based on are Phyla-Vell and Moondragon (either of whom would be the MCU's first LGBT character), though it's unknown whether she's actually playing a team member.

[anyanka323]

I don't know Elizabeth Debicki.   Any idea on who she might be playing?

Angela has made appearances as a member of GoTG.  Given the character's relationship to Thor and Loki, if she is Angela, then she could make an appearance in Thor: Ragnarok. 

[Demented Daisy]

Iron Fist has been cast -- Finn Jones from GoT.

[benteen]

Great choice!

[vb68]

I was just thinking that I'm pretty underwhelmed by it.  I hope he surprises me, but I'm feeling very meh on him right now.    

Edited February 26, 2016 by vb68

[nobodyyoucare]

Iron Fist has been cast -- Finn Jones from GoT.

There has been some reports that a number of groups are upset a white person was cast for Iron FIst. Which just goes to show these social justice types don't care about facts. Iron Fist was a white guy who learned martial arts from a mythical city that appears and disappears. 

[FurryFury]

I think it's more that people dislike the Mighty Whitey trope (in this case, a white superhero in an Asian setting) and were hoping they would change the character to an American Asian. AFAIK, the casting call was for both white and Asian actors.

Edited February 27, 2016 by FurryFury

[Jazzy24]

Iron Fist has been cast -- Finn Jones from GoT.

I don't watch GOT so I'm not familiar with the actor's work(tho people say he's underused on the show)but Marvel hasn't disappointed me in their casting choices so I will give him a chance.

[benteen]

I don't watch GOT so I'm not familiar with the actor's work(tho people say he's underused on the show)but Marvel hasn't disappointed me in their casting choices so I will give him a chance.

 

He's been good on Game of Thrones despite the fact this his character has been one of the most mangled adaptations from the book.  I've seen Finn Jones at a convention before.  He's a great guest and very personable. 

[Bruinsfan]

I can't really criticize Marvel for casting someone who strongly resembles the actual comic book character. If they wanted to feature a martial arts hero who's actually Asian, Shang-Chi would have served admirably.

[Zuleikha]

I think they should have done Daughters of the Dragon instead of Iron Fist. Danny Rand is a great supporting character for Luke Cage, but I think he's one of those characters that has racist tropes baked in, which make him hard to deal with in a contemporary story. Also, they now have 3 white protagonists and only one protagonist of color and 3 male protagonists and only 1 female protagonist in the Netflix properties. This is coming on top of a very unbalanced set of movies. Daughters of the Dragon would have made things a lot more even.

 

Also Daughters of the Dragon is an awesome name.

[FurryFury]

No idea what's this title about, but I definitely approve. Too much testosterone as it is.

[Dandesun]

Well, Misty Knight is supposed to be showing up in Luke Cage so I have hopes that we'll get Colleen Wing and see the Daughters of the Dragon on screen. Because that would be super awesome.

[Raja]

I can't really criticize Marvel for casting someone who strongly resembles the actual comic book character. If they wanted to feature a martial arts hero who's actually Asian, Shang-Chi would have served admirably.

The problem being in trying to stay with the source comic Danny Rand, The Iron Fist was linked to Luke Cage where as Shang-Chi wasn't a part of a team leading to Netflix's attempt to replicate The Avengers on their scale with a future The Defenders series. It could be done with Shang-Chi but it would be like a replay of Rush Hour or Martial Law to have him introduced to their Hell's Kitchen. I guess the worse thing possible would be  to go the route of David Carradine's Kwai Chang Caine even if a multi racial actor was cast by luck

[Rick Kitchen]

The Gambit movie, starring Channing Tatum, has been removed from the Marvel upcoming release schedule, and as of now has no release date.

[Raja]

The Gambit movie, starring Channing Tatum, has been removed from the Marvel upcoming release schedule, and as of now has no release date.

Gambit is  not a part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, that is part of the FOX X-Men/Deadpool continuity

[nobodyyoucare]

I think he meant movies based on Marvel Comic books not Marvel/Disney Films. 

[Kel Varnsen]

Also, they now have 3 white protagonists and only one protagonist of color and 3 male protagonists and only 1 female protagonist in the Netflix properties.

I was curious so I looked it up and white people make up around 70% of the US population. So as far as diversity of The Defenders, and considering it is just a 4 person team, they are not too far off. Sure the amount of women doesn't really line up with the population, but if you factor in that women would probably be less likely to want to become super heroes it isn't too far off. It would probably be closer to what you see in jobs like cops or the military. The US military is around 14% women and the NYPD I around 18%, so one of the 4 defenders being a women is higher than either of those.

In other news I saw last week that Marvel confirmed that Martin Freeman is going to be playing Everett K. Ross in Civil War and Black Panther. I always thought Ross was a great character in the BP comics. And since Michael J. Fox is both too old and probably not available (Ross was based on Michael J. Fox) then Freeman is probably a pretty great second choice.

[Zuleikha]

Sure the amount of women doesn't really line up with the population, but if you factor in that women would probably be less likely to want to become super heroes it isn't too far off. It would probably be closer to what you see in jobs like cops or the military.

 

Given that superheroes typically do not choose to become powered and are not generally portrayed as like being a police officer or military and also are completely imaginary, I don't grant that assumption. But great that it works for you. I shall continue being grumpy at Marvel's choices about whose stories they consider worth telling and whose they don't. 

[JessePinkman]

Oh brother, Everett K. Ross is the ONLY reason I didn't like the Marvel Knights Black Panther, like I pick up this book about BP and I have to read it from the perspective of some white dude? No, thank you.

[nobodyyoucare]

Oh brother, Everett K. Ross is the ONLY reason I didn't like the Marvel Knights Black Panther, like I pick up this book about BP and I have to read it from the perspective of some white dude? No, thank you.

Ever read the Punisher villain Barracuda's comic? That was done by an Irish guy and was pretty good. 

[ChelseaNH]

if you factor in that women would probably be less likely to want to become super heroes

 

Say what?

[Perfect Xero]

Oh brother, Everett K. Ross is the ONLY reason I didn't like the Marvel Knights Black Panther, like I pick up this book about BP and I have to read it from the perspective of some white dude? No, thank you.

 

If he's the POV character it's a Watson/Holmes situation, IMO, which is kind of a different thing to me, because the implication isn't that Ross's perspective or feelings are actually important. Ross is just a plot device to allow the author to tell stories where T'Challa is always 9 steps ahead of everyone else while maintaining a sense of mystery and awe.

[Demented Daisy]

Zendaya to join Spider-Man reboot in leading role.

 

Michelle?  As in, Michele Gonzales?  And look, another way to associate the MCU with Disney.  They are getting less subtle by the day.

[Jazzy24]

Zendaya to join Spider-Man reboot in leading role.

Michelle? As in, Michele Gonzales? And look, another way to associate the MCU with Disney. They are getting less subtle by the day.

I like her. She's a smart talented young woman who I've been hoping would go beyond Disney shows and get more movies. I do hope she has a big part in the movies.

[Trini]

There's already some panicky fanboy speculation that her "real" role is Mary Jane; cue diversity backlash.

[Trini]

How much of the previous solo Hulk movies are canon for the current MCU?

[Perfect Xero]

How much of the previous solo Hulk movies are canon for the current MCU?

 

The Incredible Hulk aka the Edward Norton movie is canon.

 

Hulk aka the Eric Bana movie is not.