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The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

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5 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

But this is the thing about the MCU - there are so many movies that people can have completely different rankings, depending on personal tastes. For instance, I think Iron Man 3 is dull as dishwater, and I've never even seen Doctor Strange because the character just does not interest me. I'll watch the sequel if Wanda has a major role.

IM3 sucked, I didn't like 2 either. I enjoy ranking the movies but there are so many now its hard to evaluate. At this point I just basically go with movies I'll watch multiple times vs 1 and done.

Multiple viewings: Iron Man, Captain America First Avenger, Winter Soldier, Civil War, Avengers, Ultron (shockingly), Infinity War, Endgame, Ant-Man, Homecoming, GotG, GoTG Vol. 2, Black Panther, Ragnorok

One Viewing: CM, IM2, IM3, Strange, Far From Home, Hulk, Thor, Antman and Wasp 2 and 3

Never finished: Dark World.

Anyone else actually forget that Ed Norton's Hulk movie is part of the MCU? 😂 

 

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1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Anyone else actually forget that Ed Norton's Hulk movie is part of the MCU? 😂 

I didn't forget, but as a new fan who watched them all last summer during pandemic lockdown, I couldn't find it streaming for free.  Then everything I read said it was pretty bad and it wasn't important to any storyline, so it was easily skippable - and that's what I did.  If I ever see it on TV or a streaming platform for free, I'll watch it, but that hasn't happened yet... 😉

As for releasing CM right between Infinity War and Endgame, I definitely see that point.  But for me, that wasn't it - I watched them in MCU chronological order, so CM was actually second on my list.  Maybe I didn't care for it because Iron Man and CA:FA were so much better?  

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I do like that Feige seems to have taken the legit criticism of Captain Marvel and is going to change some things(hopefully for the better) Nia DaCosta seems like an interesting choice and can hopefully give Brie some more direction to the character. Also there were like 5 different writers on CM compared to the one they have on The Marvels so it’ll be interesting to see the  new take on Carol Danvers. 
 

I did really like how Brie portrayed Carol in Endgame and liked how she interacted with the rest of the Avengers so I hope they build from that. Give Brie more material to sink her teeth into and just let the character and movie be fun. 

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Since Norton's Hulk is considered part of the MCU, then it should be included with the rest of the movies, in Phase 1? or however they are sorted on Disney +. And they can't use well, Norton's Bruce/Hulk isn't Ruffalo, so it can't be included, when we've got a recast Rhodey in Don Cheadle after the first Iron Man

Then there's the post credit scene with Tony and the asshat. With said Asshat returning in Civil War.

I actually liked Norton's Hulk, and won't lie, loved how they used the 70s series piano music at the end.

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1 hour ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

didn't forget, but as a new fan who watched them all last summer during pandemic lockdown, I couldn't find it streaming for free. 

Another one where the cast was right up my alley, Norton, Roth, Hurt. Yet, it fell flat for me. The only scene I actually remember being excited about is the mid-credits scene where RDJ/Tony Stark shows up.  The Hulk vs Abomination smackdown was fun, I think. I'd have to watch it again.

Wow, I just checked IMDb and Tim Roth will be back as Abomination/Emil Blonsky in the She-Hulk Series. I was already excited for it since I like She-Hulk what little I've seen in comics...most recently Xavier's Lawyer.

I love Tim Roth and, I'd like to see him against Ruffalo's Banner as long as it's Avengers Banner (perfect version IMO). I didn't like making him the comic relief in Ragnorok and beyond. I actually liked Hulk in Ragnorok but, hated Banner. 

I'm also not impressed with Professor Hulk

Edited by Morrigan2575
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43 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Since Norton's Hulk is considered part of the MCU, then it should be included with the rest of the movies, in Phase 1? or however they are sorted on Disney +. And they can't use well, Norton's Bruce/Hulk isn't Ruffalo, so it can't be included, when we've got a recast Rhodey in Don Cheadle after the first Iron Man

Right, it should be right after Iron Man 2 in Phase 1 - but it's not on Disney+.  Or at least it wasn't a few months ago, the last time that I looked.  It's like Spiderman: owned by a different studio, so Disney doesn't have the rights to stream it.  

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Isn't Universal the distributer for Incredible Hulk? Wasn't that the deal?  They could use Hulk in MCU movies but, stand alone Hulk movies have to be released through Universal Pictures?

Edited by Morrigan2575
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14 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Isn't Universal the distributer for Incredible Hulk? Wasn't that the deal?  They could use Hulk in MCU movies but, stand alone Hulk movies have to be released through Universal Pictures?

Yep. That's why it's not on Disney+. I am surprised it's not streaming for free anywhere but Universal does a lot of things I don't understand.

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31 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Yep. That's why it's not on Disney+. I am surprised it's not streaming for free anywhere but Universal does a lot of things I don't understand.

I just checked Peacock since that is NBCUniversal, but it's not there either.  Weird.

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4 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

IM3 sucked, I didn't like 2 either.

The quality of so many of these movies are so subjective, because I really liked IM3, I thought it was fun and RDJ got a lot of really good material that would go on to set up a lot of Tony's arc throughout the MCU. It certainly has flaws, and its not one of my favorites, but to me its miles better than Iron Man 2, which is one of my least favorite MCU movies. 

My ranking list sometimes really depends on what I'm in the mood for as much as how much I think the movie is good or bad. While Marvel movies do have a certain formula, they are also different enough that there is something for everyone and every mood. Am I feeling a political thriller? A wacky space adventure? An urban fantasy? A heist movie? Of course I'm one of the rare weirdos who really doesn't think there is a full on terrible movie in the MCU's slate yet. To me, the movies I dislike the most, like IM2 and Thor 2 are more mediocre than actually terrible. They aren't movies I seek out, but they're watchable. There's nothing like Batman V Superman or Fan4stick that are just nails on a chalkboard for me. I think the closest one gets to being really unpleasant for me is Ultron, and that's really only a few plot threads and resolutions that I really dislike and badly hurt the movie for me, although there is a lot in that movie that I like as well. It just gets overshadowed by the crappy handling of Natasha and Natasha/Bruce and Pietro's pointless death. 

My soon to be in-laws have finally decided to watch all of the MCU movies for the first time, but they're watching them in chronological order, as in the time periods they are set in, instead of the order in which they aired, despite my desperate attempts to prevent this terrible watching order. They just watched Captain Marvel, which is way late in the game but chronologically is really early, being set in the 90s, so of course they're completely confused. Watching the movies by order of time periods sounds like fun for someone who has seen all of the movies sounds fun, but not as a first run through!

Edited by tennisgurl
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50 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I just checked Peacock since that is NBCUniversal, but it's not there either.  Weird.

That kind of makes sense to me. I mean it is basically part 2 of a 20+ movie series. They might as well put up an add at the end that says "want to see more of the story? Then go sign up for our competition's service".

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1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

My soon to be in-laws have finally decided to watch all of the MCU movies for the first time, but they're watching them in chronological order, as in the time periods they are set in, instead of the order in which they aired, despite my desperate attempts to prevent this terrible watching order. They just watched Captain Marvel, which is way late in the game but chronologically is really early, being set in the 90s, so of course they're completely confused. Watching the movies by order of time periods sounds like fun for someone who has seen all of the movies sounds fun, but not as a first run through!

I'll defend your in-laws. 😉  I watched all of the movies that way as my first run through, and I didn't have any trouble keeping up with what was going on or who's who.  I liked being able to follow exactly when things happen in their universe, rather than have to figure out where the movie fit in if it was set earlier than the previous one I just watched.  For example, starting with the introduction of Steve Rogers and Captain America in the 1940s made perfect sense, rather than watching all of the fancy tech and snarkiness in the Iron Man movies first and then going back in time.  Then also that way, there was more time for Captain America to be "sleeping" before we saw him again.

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I have a complicated history with Carol since my first exposure to her was through the X-Men and Rogue. I think the first time I saw her in the pages was shortly after Rogue showed up begging for help and then the team went to Japan to be there for Logan's marriage to Mariko where Rogue legit almost died protecting Logan and Mariko from Viper... and then when they got back, Carol as Binary showed up and socked Rogue into the atmosphere. It was good stuff because there were a LOT of complicated emotions and reasoning -- and Rogue was just ONE of the times that Carol had her life and memories fucked with.

But even though I started with loyalty to Rogue I went back and looked at the history and Carol had some really excellent runs in comics. Kelly Sue Deconnick did great work with her which resulted in her taking on the Captain Marvel moniker and the suit we know in the movies.

I quite enjoyed the movie. There's Carol, all of her memories and personality molded and shaped by the Kree after they got a hold of her but still these little moments slipping out throughout. And when she fully came into her powers... well, my little icon is there for a reason. Her whoops of joy as she was flying through space taking on ANYTHING that was a threat... *chef's kiss* That's Carol.

I also loved when she decimated Thanos' ship. And he looked so sad after she had done it. HA! Suck it, Thanos!

So, the Marvels? Carol, Monica and Kamala? BRING IT. I've been re-reading Kamala's first run and it's just as charming and wonderful as the first time. Plus, I always loved the weird stuff in the background of the art in that book. I'm super excited to see the Marvels. Can't wait.

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9 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Antman and Wasp 2 and 3

You keep mentioning Antman and the Wasp 2 and 3... but there has only ever been one AM&TW movie? Did I miss some sequels?

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27 minutes ago, shantown said:

You keep mentioning Antman and the Wasp 2 and 3... but there has only ever been one AM&TW movie? Did I miss some sequels?

Was there only 1? The one with Michelle Pfifer was the same as the Ghost character? I thought they were different movies. OK, so I didn't like Ant-Man and Wasp 😂

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42 minutes ago, shantown said:

You keep mentioning Antman and the Wasp 2 and 3... but there has only ever been one AM&TW movie? Did I miss some sequels?

13 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Was there only 1? The one with Michelle Pfifer was the same as the Ghost character? I thought they were different movies. OK, so I didn't like Ant-Man and Wasp 😂

 

There have been two movies thus far:

Antman (2015)

Antman & the Wasp (2018) (before Endgame

Antman & the Wasp: Quantumania is filming (due out 2023)

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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36 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

 

There have been two movies thus far:

Antman (2015)

Antman & the Wasp (2018) (before Endgame

Antman & the Wasp: Quantumania is filming (due out 2023)

Okay, this makes sense, thank you! The Antman movies are some of the only ones in the MCU I do like so I was confused if I missed one of the sequels I actually wanted to see! I like a lot of the later movies more - Antman & the Wasp, Captain Marvel, Black Panther, the two Spiderman movies. I've never been a huge fan of any of the Iron Man or Captain America films. I have never watched any of the GotG movies because I don't think I'd be able to get over my dislike of Chris Pratt!

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2 hours ago, shantown said:

I have never watched any of the GotG movies because I don't think I'd be able to get over my dislike of Chris Pratt!

I like the Guardians movies a lot, but even if you don't like Pratt they might be still worth watching just for the development of Nebula and the story arc that her and Gamora have that leads into Infinity War.

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Yeah, like with the Jumanji movies, Karen Gillan is awesome enough to be worth putting up with a problematic costar.

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On 5/7/2021 at 11:01 AM, scarynikki12 said:

Yep. That's why it's not on Disney+. I am surprised it's not streaming for free anywhere but Universal does a lot of things I don't understand.

It’s on Amazon Prime, if you buy from Amazon you can get a 30 day trial, cancel before it’s up and see the movie for free - if you’re okay with doing something like that.  I’ve done the free trial before and was able to cancel before I got charged.  

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On 5/6/2021 at 9:34 AM, FnkyChkn34 said:

When I was watching CA:CW, I kept forgetting that I wasn't watching an Avengers movie.  That one was mis-named, in my opinion; it was clearly a group movie.

I've never agreed with this because at its center, that movie is about Steve's continued severing ties between his ideals and the new world he's living in. 

It just so happens that his world is a lot bigger now and he was literally leading his own team by this point so there was no way around a lot more people being in that movie. 

It's a honest continuation of everything that happened in winter soldier. Just with a lot more people. It's a civil war movie but he's still at the center.

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1 hour ago, Cobb Salad said:

It’s on Amazon Prime, if you buy from Amazon you can get a 30 day trial, cancel before it’s up and see the movie for free - if you’re okay with doing something like that.  I’ve done the free trial before and was able to cancel before I got charged.  

The phase one movies are partially owned by Paramount. That's why you randomly see the first avengers movie on prime, Paramount plus and Hulu for example. Disney does not have complete streaming rights of those movies so they pop up on different platforms. 

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2 hours ago, Racj82 said:

The phase one movies are partially owned by Paramount. That's why you randomly see the first avengers movie on prime, Paramount plus and Hulu for example. Disney does not have complete streaming rights of those movies so they pop up on different platforms. 

Paramount did own the distribution rights on the first 6 MCU movies that don’t star Hulk but they sold them years ago. Before Avengers was released Disney bought the distribution from Paramount for Avengers and Iron Man 3. In 2013, they bought the distribution rights for Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and Iron Man 2. 

Edited by Dani

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7 hours ago, Cobb Salad said:

It’s on Amazon Prime, if you buy from Amazon you can get a 30 day trial, cancel before it’s up and see the movie for free - if you’re okay with doing something like that.  I’ve done the free trial before and was able to cancel before I got charged.  

I’m a Prime Member and it’s not free. You can either rent it or buy it. It’s not part of the free to Prime Members package.

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I’m kind of a completionist, so I recently bought the Norton Hulk on Blu-ray (along with Homecoming and Far From Home).  It was only $7.50, so not outrageous - if nothing else it was basically a throw in on an order that I already had free shipping on.

I thought it was enjoyable, although it really feels like an artifact of pre-Disney MCU, where they were fully expecting to have to play nice with all the studios that had their IP.  Like, it sets up a bunch of Hulk lore- clearly someone expected there to be some kind of sequel.  Beyond that, there’s enjoyable stuff in it- all of the Brazil on location sequences are fun.  The main performances are solid- especially Roth and Norton.  Unfortunately the Hulk CGI is still subpar- not quite as bad as in Ang Lee’s film, but still cartoony compared to the Avengers version.  Liv is kind of a non-entity as Betty, but I don’t think it’s entirely her fault- the script doesn’t give her much to work with.  Overall I think the good stuff weighs out - and for basically the price of a matinee ticket, it’s worth checking out as a slice of early MCU.  Also, hatless Feige on the bonus features!

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10 hours ago, Dani said:

Paramount did own the distribution rights on the first 6 MCU movies that don’t star Hulk but they sold them years ago. Before Avengers was released Disney bought the distribution from Paramount for Avengers and Iron Man 3. In 2013, they bought the distribution rights for Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and Iron Man 2. 

Paramount literally just announced that among the movies they are bringing to their platform in the coming months is the first avengers movie among others. They still share distribution. I'm sure that eventually that deal will lapse. It hasn't happened yet.

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On 5/7/2021 at 12:08 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

Anyone else actually forget that Ed Norton's Hulk movie is part of the MCU

I watched this when I first watched the marvel movies and I’d put it at the bottom of the marvel movies along with:

dr strange, captain marvel, Thor: the far world.

I just felt the movies seriously lacked humour and memorable villains. I was bored. 

On 5/7/2021 at 1:45 PM, FnkyChkn34 said:

Maybe I didn't care for it because Iron Man and CA:FA were so much better?  

I agree with this. I’m doing a rewatch as part of introducing my sister to the franchise. We did First Avenger which she enjoyed. While we should be watching Captain Marvel next we’re actually going to skip just because Iron Man is so much better and hooks you to the all the movies. Captain Marvel is just going to bore her and I want her to see the best of the franchise first.

On 5/7/2021 at 6:42 PM, FnkyChkn34 said:

'll defend your in-laws. 😉  I watched all of the movies that way as my first run through, and I didn't have any trouble keeping up with what was going on or who's who.  I liked being able to follow exactly when things happen in their universe, rather than have to figure out where the movie fit in if it was set earlier than the previous one I just watched.  For example, starting with the introduction of Steve Rogers and Captain America in the 1940s made perfect sense, rather than watching all of the fancy tech and snarkiness in the Iron Man movies first and then going back in time.  Then also that way, there was more time for Captain America to be "sleeping" before we saw him again.

Agree this is how I did it. I prefer doing it in chronological order. 

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On 5/7/2021 at 7:08 AM, Morrigan2575 said:

IM3 sucked, I didn't like 2 either. I enjoy ranking the movies but there are so many now its hard to evaluate.

I liked 3 a lot better than 2. At the very least 2 is the worst for the fact that it brought Bill O'Reilly into the MCU.

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3 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I liked 3 a lot better than 2. At the very least 2 is the worst for the fact that it brought Bill O'Reilly into the MCU.

I feel like there were so many promising stories in IM2 and they chickened out. And thinking now what they could do on Disney+ with it and it bums me out. I enjoyed IM3 when I watched it (and I liked the Mandarin "twist") but it's not one that I'll rewatch. I mean, manipulating media to trick people into fearing something was a good idea, but perhaps not executed very well. It felt disjointed and without consequence. I preferred the exploration of what legacy is in Far From Home and Homecoming even though those were Spider-Man movies.

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Captain Marvel is for me one of those MCU movies which actually get better with each watch. I think on the meta level, it is easily one of the strongest. 

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19 hours ago, Avabelle said:

e did First Avenger which she enjoyed. While we should be watching Captain Marvel next we’re actually going to skip just because Iron Man is so much better and hooks you to the all the movies.

I wouldn't bet on it. Iron Man was the first Marvel movie I saw and my reaction to it was a solid "eh, it was okay, better start than ending, though". It was Cap which brought me to the MCU, not Tony (granted it didn't help that back then, I was really, really tired of man child main character and absolutely craved a proper boy scout hero). The problem with watching Captain Marvel second is more that you have to fast forward the end credit scene and you are robbed of all the build up which were created due to them. But if you already started with The First Avenger anyway.....

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32 minutes ago, swanpride said:

I wouldn't bet on it. Iron Man was the first Marvel movie I saw and my reaction to it was a solid "eh, it was okay, better start than ending, though". It was Cap which brought me to the MCU, not Tony (granted it didn't help that back then, I was really, really tired of man child main character and absolutely craved a proper boy scout hero). The problem with watching Captain Marvel second is more that you have to fast forward the end credit scene and you are robbed of all the build up which were created due to them. But if you already started with The First Avenger anyway.....

Yeah. I think it really just depends are personal taste. I enjoyed Iron Man but it was Cap that got me invested. It wasn’t until Winter Soldier that is hooked. I know a few people who had very little interest in Iron Man and were only brought into the MCU through Captain Marvel and WandaVision. 

The first two Iron Man movies have parts that have aged poorly over the last decade. Pepper’s taking out the trash joke and Tony lusting after Nat are particularly cringeworthy to me now. 

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On 5/7/2021 at 6:06 PM, shantown said:

I have never watched any of the GotG movies because I don't think I'd be able to get over my dislike of Chris Pratt!

 

On 5/7/2021 at 8:10 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

I like the Guardians movies a lot, but even if you don't like Pratt they might be still worth watching just for the development of Nebula and the story arc that her and Gamora have that leads into Infinity War.

In addition to Nebula, even if you don't like Chris Pratt, that might still be alright because you can easily dislike his character too.  Peter Quill is an arrogant know-it-all but really isn't that smart; he reminds me of that 80s stereotypical "jock" who thinks he's all that but he'd really just be pumping gas for the rest of his life if it weren't for daddy's money and connections. (This description doesn't fit Quill, but you know the stereotype I mean...) If you're one of those people who can "hate watch" then you might like GOTG.

On 5/8/2021 at 4:08 PM, Racj82 said:

I've never agreed with this because at its center, that movie is about Steve's continued severing ties between his ideals and the new world he's living in. 

It just so happens that his world is a lot bigger now and he was literally leading his own team by this point so there was no way around a lot more people being in that movie. 

It's a honest continuation of everything that happened in winter soldier. Just with a lot more people. It's a civil war movie but he's still at the center.

I'm indifferent either way, honestly, but it does have the huge cast - as well as the revelation about the fate of Tony's parents.  I always found that a little bit odd to be in a "Captain America" movie and not an "Iron Man" movie.  I know that it's also a reveal about Bucky, but it's huge for Tony too.  I think Steve may be mostly at the center, but it still focuses on Tony and Bucky a good bit (as well as the others with the Sokovia Accords); they play a larger role in this movie than say the Hulk does in Thor: Ragnarok.  And not that this matters, but RDJ is just as large on the poster as Chris Evans... 😉 

I think arguments could be made either way!

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On 5/7/2021 at 8:10 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

I like the Guardians movies a lot, but even if you don't like Pratt they might be still worth watching just for the development of Nebula and the story arc that her and Gamora have that leads into Infinity War.

I would point out that all of the guardians have great evolutions. Not just the women. Every single one the guardians are loners in their owns ways. Partners when it comes to Groot and Rocket. Together they have grown so much and its really great to see them become a family. Gamora and Nebula growing to be sisters again is wonderful buy the whole gang works so well together.

I also think that Quill actually is smart and not really a jerk. He's no more of a jerk than the rest the guardians at times. I don't count mantis in any of this since she's just so sweet.

He has great plans and is pretty smart but his emotions sometimes get in the way. See infinity war.

9 hours ago, Dani said:

Yeah. I think it really just depends are personal taste. I enjoyed Iron Man but it was Cap that got me invested. It wasn’t until Winter Soldier that is hooked. I know a few people who had very little interest in Iron Man and were only brought into the MCU through Captain Marvel and WandaVision. 

The first two Iron Man movies have parts that have aged poorly over the last decade. Pepper’s taking out the trash joke and Tony lusting after Nat are particularly cringeworthy to me now. 

A lot of people for whatever reason seem to be Iron Man people or Captain America people. It's not really that the people hate one over the other. It's more that some people are more invested in one over the other. I love and have been invested in both characters from the jump.

19 hours ago, swanpride said:

Captain Marvel is for me one of those MCU movies which actually get better with each watch. I think on the meta level, it is easily one of the strongest. 

Rewatching Captain Marvel multiple times? I'm good. I got it the first time. 

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Quill proves he's an idiot and as Tony called him, a "dipshit" for not knowing that Missouri is on the planet Earth. He's a man-boy, He's posturing to sound/compete with Thor is just another example. As IF there is any comparison.

I love both Tony and Steve, but Steve is my favorite character, if that makes sense. I blame the writers and directors for fucking up the last few minutes of Endgame.

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10 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Quill proves he's an idiot and as Tony called him, a "dipshit" for not knowing that Missouri is on the planet Earth. He's a man-boy, He's posturing to sound/compete with Thor is just another example. As IF there is any comparison.

I love both Tony and Steve, but Steve is my favorite character, if that makes sense. I blame the writers and directors for fucking up the last few minutes of Endgame.

And, I mean - he really thought that Yondu was going to eat him?  I keep trying to tell myself that Quill is joking, but he's not.  He really thought that, into adulthood...

I think Steve is my favorite main character as well, and I didn't even hate the end of Endgame, so I'm good with the whole MCU.  (Of course I like other characters a lot too... it's tough to choose.)

Edited by FnkyChkn34
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6 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

And, I mean - he really thought that Yondu was going to eat him?  I keep trying to tell myself that Quill is joking, but he's not.  He really thought that, into adulthood...

I think Steve is my favorite main character as well, and I didn't even hate the end of Endgame, so I'm good with the whole MCU.  (Of course I like other characters a lot too... it's tough to choose.)

As if we don't all say, think or know dumb shit from time to time.

I don't think he's a complete idiot. But, I also think, his sillier moments are amped up for comedy. 

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5 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Peter Quill is an arrogant know-it-all but really isn't that smart; he reminds me of that 80s stereotypical "jock" who thinks he's all that but he'd really just be pumping gas for the rest of his life if it weren't for daddy's money and connections.

I don't think he's an idiot or stupid. He's actually decently smart, he's just an arrogant man baby (as someone else said). I'm pretty sure it was his plan that was working against Thanos until he got all emotional about Gamora and ruined it.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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While I don't think too highly of Pratt, I actually like Peter Quill. When I see him, I always see the little boy who got a black eye for defending a frog. I can't imagine what was necessary for Yondu to make him jaded enough to pretend that he didn't care anymore (and it is largely a pretense). Nor do I think that he was stupid for thinking that some of Yondu's crew would eat him, I think it is stupid to believe that other alien races might to too choosy with their meals. I am pretty sure that Peter largely survived because of Yondu's protection but at the same time, Yondu was his kidnapper, hence Peter never feelt in any way protected. 

A lot of what Peter Quill is, is actually mostly a mask, and yes, his emotional development is somewhat stunted due to years of abuse and the lack of any healthy role model. But he is certainly not stupid. Honestly, I think his pretended stupidity is partly a mask, too. 

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2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Quill proves he's an idiot and as Tony called him, a "dipshit" for not knowing that Missouri is on the planet Earth. He's a man-boy, He's posturing to sound/compete with Thor is just another example. As IF there is any comparison.

I love both Tony and Steve, but Steve is my favorite character, if that makes sense. I blame the writers and directors for fucking up the last few minutes of Endgame.

Don’t forget the writers of FATWS! 😜

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5 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I'm indifferent either way, honestly, but it does have the huge cast - as well as the revelation about the fate of Tony's parents.  I always found that a little bit odd to be in a "Captain America" movie and not an "Iron Man" movie.  I know that it's also a reveal about Bucky, but it's huge for Tony too.  I think Steve may be mostly at the center, but it still focuses on Tony and Bucky a good bit (as well as the others with the Sokovia Accords); they play a larger role in this movie than say the Hulk does in Thor: Ragnarok.  And not that this matters, but RDJ is just as large on the poster as Chris Evans... 😉 

My guess is that a lot of that was because of contract issues and it being a battleground between Feige and Perlmutter. It was already clear Evans wasn’t going to extend his contract  so they couldn’t do a true CA3 stand alone, Civil War and three more Avenger movies. RDJ’s contract ended with IM3 so he had a lot more power with Civil War negotiations. Plus that was when Feige was threatening to quit over Perlmutter’s stupidity. Basically there were a lot of behind the scenes things happening at the time. 

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21 minutes ago, Dani said:

My guess is that a lot of that was because of contract issues and it being a battleground between Feige and Perlmutter. It was already clear Evans wasn’t going to extend his contract  so they couldn’t do a true CA3 stand alone, Civil War and three more Avenger movies. RDJ’s contract ended with IM3 so he had a lot more power with Civil War negotiations. Plus that was when Feige was threatening to quit over Perlmutter’s stupidity. Basically there were a lot of behind the scenes things happening at the time. 

Interesting to know; since I wasn't a fan from the beginning, I don't really know much about the behind the scenes. 

But I have a question - how could RDJ's contract end with Iron Man 3?  Did he sign a new one for all of the later stuff (Spiderman, Infinity War, Endgame, etc.) or was he paid by the movie with no guarantees to either party that he'd come back for the next one?  I know that Hemsworth's contract ended with Endgame, but they didn't *need* a Thor 4, so I assume now he's just negotiating one-offs.  I could be wrong about that, but I also don't really see them doing that with RDJ when he was so pivotal to the plot through Endgame - if I were Marvel, I'd need him on contract.  

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2 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

But I have a question - how could RDJ's contract end with Iron Man 3?  Did he sign a new one for all of the later stuff (Spiderman, Infinity War, Endgame, etc.) or was he paid by the movie with no guarantees to either party that he'd come back for the next one?  I know that Hemsworth's contract ended with Endgame, but they didn't *need* a Thor 4, so I assume now he's just negotiating one-offs.  I could be wrong about that, but I also don't really see them doing that with RDJ when he was so pivotal to the plot through Endgame - if I were Marvel, I'd need him on contract.  

After IM3 it was reported that he signed a new contract for Avengers 3 and 4. The other movies were reported to be renegotiations of that contract but I’m not sure of the details. Interestingly Tony having a large role in Civil War was RDJ’s idea. It was originally going to be smaller and that idea ultimately led to a complete restructuring of Marvel Studios. 

If your interested Collider did a series on the making of all the movies that delves into all those aspects which is interesting. 
How the MCU Was Made: ‘Captain America: Civil War’ and Crafting a New Spider-Man

Edited by Dani
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6 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

And, I mean - he really thought that Yondu was going to eat him?  I keep trying to tell myself that Quill is joking, but he's not.  He really thought that, into adulthood...

I think Steve is my favorite main character as well, and I didn't even hate the end of Endgame, so I'm good with the whole MCU.  (Of course I like other characters a lot too... it's tough to choose.)

I think we need to remember that Quill was taken as a small, traumatized child and dropped into a completely alien environment. His mother had literally *just* died when Yondu grabbed him. And then he was raised by Ravagers. I'm shocked he's been able to mature as much as he has.

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3 hours ago, Dani said:

Interestingly Tony having a large role in Civil War was RDJ’s idea. It was originally going to be smaller and that idea ultimately led to a complete restructuring of Marvel Studios.

Color me shocked that it was RDJ's idea for his character to have only 30 seconds less screen time than the titular lead of the movie. Shocked, I say!

I suppose it's good he had two toddlers at home when the first solo Spider-Man movie was filming, or Spider-Man might have been Iron Man's sidekick rather than protege.

Edited by Bruinsfan
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6 hours ago, Dani said:

My guess is that a lot of that was because of contract issues and it being a battleground between Feige and Perlmutter. It was already clear Evans wasn’t going to extend his contract  so they couldn’t do a true CA3 stand alone, Civil War and three more Avenger movies. RDJ’s contract ended with IM3 so he had a lot more power with Civil War negotiations. Plus that was when Feige was threatening to quit over Perlmutter’s stupidity. Basically there were a lot of behind the scenes things happening at the time. 

Also don't forget that when CA:CW was in development, the WB was fast-tracking Batman vs Superman, and reports have always been that Cap 3 was originally supposed to be a true sequel to CA:TWS and then it pivoted to Civil War. I've always thought it's pretty clear that Marvel felt pressure to compete with BvS, hence why Cap 3 really became Avengers 2.5 with the Avengers turning on each other--though as it turns out, BvS was received so poorly that they definitely didn't need to feel that pressure. But Marvel had no way of knowing that at the time.

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Malcolm Spellman is currently doing a livestream on Fatman Beyond with Kevin Smith and Marc Bernardin. He just said something I didn't know and hadn't considered which is that the MCU projects are assigned producers who put all their focus on that single project from start to finish. For Falcon and Winter Soldier he named Nate Moore and Zoie Nagelhaut as the two assigned. Kevin provided some extra context which is that producers generally are working on at least a dozen or so projects so this approach is extremely unusual. So each MCU project has a couple of people from Feige's team who are there the whole time, not having to split their focus with a bunch of other things, actively caring about the work being done, and it made for a great experience.

So that looks to be one of the key reasons for the continued success of the MCU and Feige and his team deserve even more props for doing it this way.

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11 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Color me shocked that it was RDJ's idea for his character to have only 30 seconds less screen time than the titular lead of the movie. Shocked, I say!

I suppose it's good he had two toddlers at home when the first solo Spider-Man movie was filming, or Spider-Man might have been Iron Man's sidekick rather than protege.

That's not quite all of it - if all he wanted was to be front and center then he could have had virtual carte blanche for Iron Man 4.  He had to be a co-lead to get that sweet leading man money.  If they had offered him the same cash for a smaller role he might have taken it.

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The Russo's always said that they ended up with Civil War pretty naturally while working on the script, and I am inclined to believe them. I mean, the conflict between Steve and Tony was basically set up from day one and the fan theory that Bucky killed Tony's parents was around pretty much since the release of The Winter Soldier. 

What I don't quite forgive them is that they kept short-changing Bucky in favour of Tony once they got him to play around with. 

 

But at the end of the day, Civil War is still mostly a Captain America movie. After all it is his world view which is challenged above all.  

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Speaking of Guardians I really really hope that Feige reigns James Gunn in on the next installment. 
 

Vol 1 was so good but vol 2 was 1 upped 20.  I liked Vol 2  but it had so many problems and Gunn is so much better when he has someone to tell him no and to write his scripts. 

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