S03.E07: The Collection Agency

[Quilt Fairy]

On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 5:58 PM, Twopper said:

I could never be a Scientologist as I found LRH utterly repulsive.

The nasty brown teeth are always enough to make me look away from the screen before we even get into his made-up "religion".  Hopefully he took some Crest Whitestrips with him during his sojourn with Xenu.

[FoundTime]

On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 9:49 PM, GussieK said:

I have to disagree in part. All religions depend on fundraising, albeit not to the level required by Scientology.  Churches or synagogues can’t function without membership fees and additional fundraising.  For example, I have seen friends who belong to a synagogue have to attend an annual dinner and pay a fee.  Every year someone is nominated for an award at the dinner, and it’s expected that the honoree will donate money and solicit outside friends to donate. It can get pretty aggressive  

I consider myself lucky that I was raised without religion. But I find them endlessly fascinating. We had cousins who joined the Sri Chinmoy cult. One left as a 50 year old after a wasted life. It’s partly to try to understand why that I watch shows like this and read up on the subject. 

My understanding is that the Jewish model of synagogue membership does depend on fees. As a Christian (Protestant for my adult life, so I can't speak to Roman Catholicism), in my experience, most mainline churches fund at least part of their expenses from member pledges/tithing. Of course I am leaving out the fly-by-night religious "organizations" and megachurches. Don't know about those. Co$ is obviously the exception to every rule.

On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 7:10 PM, Twopper said:

Yeah, I would understand better if they had grown up in Scientology.  A few years ago ( maybe 4 or 5) CNN produced a special on Co$ (applause for whoever came up with using the $ sign) called "Going Clear " which featured a woman called Spanky(formerly close to John Revolta) who said that she believed that she would gain supernatural powers by studying scientology so that's what I thought of when he said that he believed his income would increase if he spent money on it.  Actually, I think he said he was told something to the effect that " many people have found their income increase..." so I doubt it was made as a promise.   Maybe he was looking for supernatural powers as well.    A  lot of people came into it in the early days, because they would take free quizzes offered by Co$ such as personality or interest tests then they were told how Co$ classes could help improve their lives.  Something like this may have happened to this couple.                 

I believe this was actually an HBO doc https://www.hbo.com/documentaries/going-clear, based on Lawrence Wright's excellent book of the same name (Going Clear), which I have probably referenced somewhere else on these boards during the course of this show :) 

[Twopper]

56 minutes ago, FoundTime said:

I believe this was actually an HBO doc https://www.hbo.com/documentaries/going-clear, based on Lawrence Wright's excellent book of the same name (Going Clear), which I have probably referenced somewhere else on these boards during the course of this show :) 

You are right, it was HBO.  It is still at the bottom of the DVR list, but I wasn't in the mood to watch again just to see exactly what Spanky said about the powers Co$ promises. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

"I didn't get my money back but on my way out the door the registrar told me the money would be waiting for me in my next life."

I love it when Leah is left speechless at something the Co$ has done.

Sometimes I find her surprise at this stuff somewhat disingenuous. She was a member of the church most of her life and knows of its beliefs. Don't get me wrong, I love that she's doing this show, but sometimes there's an affectation to her reactions.

[libgirl2]

21 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Sometimes I find her surprise at this stuff somewhat disingenuous. She was a member of the church most of her life and knows of its beliefs. Don't get me wrong, I love that she's doing this show, but sometimes there's an affectation to her reactions.

There are things certain members, mainly the celebrities, are not always aware of. They are the face of the cult and the cult wants to keep them happy. 

[andromeda331]

20 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

There are things certain members, mainly the celebrities, are not always aware of. They are the face of the cult and the cult wants to keep them happy. 

I'm not so sure about that. Its entirely possible your right of course. I don't doubt that CO$ work hard to keep them happy and unaware. But John Travolta's own handle escaped with her daughter. She didn't leave, she escaped after finding her daughter in a urine soaked crib. How does he not believe that? His own handler? Someone he knew fled and talked about the horrible conditions she lived in. Why was he not outraged by that? Every celebrity friend of Paul Haggis who he sent the letter about full of fucked up stuff about the church and not a single one cared? Tom Cruise who of course clearly had no problem with his children being turned against their mother with the help of Scientology. Who's last wife escaped. No matter how much stuff is put out about their church nah not a single one is "interested" enough to read any of it or watch any of programs. And are all so easily turned against their friends? Turned against Paul, turned against Leah. Why are they so easy turned? And so happy to believe the worse in people they have known? Or ignore so many reports of abuse? If everything's great then why are so many people escaping? Why aren't they bothering to check out the abuses? It really wouldn't be that hard. 

[libgirl2]

22 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I'm not so sure about that. Its entirely possible your right of course. I don't doubt that CO$ work hard to keep them happy and unaware. But John Travolta's own handle escaped with her daughter. She didn't leave, she escaped after finding her daughter in a urine soaked crib. How does he not believe that? His own handler? Someone he knew fled and talked about the horrible conditions she lived in. Why was he not outraged by that? Every celebrity friend of Paul Haggis who he sent the letter about full of fucked up stuff about the church and not a single one cared? Tom Cruise who of course clearly had no problem with his children being turned against their mother with the help of Scientology. Who's last wife escaped. No matter how much stuff is put out about their church nah not a single one is "interested" enough to read any of it or watch any of programs. And are all so easily turned against their friends? Turned against Paul, turned against Leah. Why are they so easy turned? And so happy to believe the worse in people they have known? Or ignore so many reports of abuse? If everything's great then why are so many people escaping? Why aren't they bothering to check out the abuses? It really wouldn't be that hard. 

Well, maybe they don't want to believe it. The celebs are coddled and treated like gods. Feed their egos..... they can ignore a lot of things. 

Edited January 17, 2019 by libgirl2

[estellasmum]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I'm not so sure about that. Its entirely possible your right of course. I don't doubt that CO$ work hard to keep them happy and unaware. But John Travolta's own handle escaped with her daughter. She didn't leave, she escaped after finding her daughter in a urine soaked crib. How does he not believe that? His own handler? Someone he knew fled and talked about the horrible conditions she lived in. Why was he not outraged by that? Every celebrity friend of Paul Haggis who he sent the letter about full of fucked up stuff about the church and not a single one cared? Tom Cruise who of course clearly had no problem with his children being turned against their mother with the help of Scientology. Who's last wife escaped. No matter how much stuff is put out about their church nah not a single one is "interested" enough to read any of it or watch any of programs. And are all so easily turned against their friends? Turned against Paul, turned against Leah. Why are they so easy turned? And so happy to believe the worse in people they have known? Or ignore so many reports of abuse? If everything's great then why are so many people escaping? Why aren't they bothering to check out the abuses? It really wouldn't be that hard. 

Look up cognitive dissonance, it is a very common thing among people in cults.

[CrystalBlue]

On 1/15/2019 at 12:38 PM, iMonrey said:

Sometimes I find her surprise at this stuff somewhat disingenuous. She was a member of the church most of her life and knows of its beliefs. Don't get me wrong, I love that she's doing this show, but sometimes there's an affectation to her reactions.

Well, Leah is an actress.  :D  However, I don't think Leah is being disingenuous.  There are so many levels and classes of Scientologists (or should I call them parishioners (ha ha)) such as the regular members, Sea Org, and those in special occupations of the "church" such as the registrars.  Not everyone is going to know everything about this "religion" because you only get to know what you know depending on how many courses you take and how high up the ladder you go.

We have also learned from this series that although some members dislike David Miss Cabbage, they are waiting for LRH to come back to earth.

[link417]

7 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Well, Leah is an actress.  :D  However, I don't think Leah is being disingenuous.  There are so many levels and classes of Scientologists (or should I call them parishioners (ha ha)) such as the regular members, Sea Org, and those in special occupations of the "church" such as the registrars.  Not everyone is going to know everything about this "religion" because you only get to know what you know depending on how many courses you take and how high up the ladder you go.

We have also learned from this series that although some members dislike David Miss Cabbage, they are waiting for LRH to come back to earth.

I agree. And with all the crazy things she’s heard from contributors, there are only so many ways to say “WHAT?!” before it starts to sound (and, for her, probably feel) inauthentic. 

[funky-rat]

9 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Well, Leah is an actress.  :D  However, I don't think Leah is being disingenuous.  There are so many levels and classes of Scientologists (or should I call them parishioners (ha ha)) such as the regular members, Sea Org, and those in special occupations of the "church" such as the registrars.  Not everyone is going to know everything about this "religion" because you only get to know what you know depending on how many courses you take and how high up the ladder you go.

We have also learned from this series that although some members dislike David Miss Cabbage, they are waiting for LRH to come back to earth.

Not just that, but in the past, I worked for a collection agency.  The owner had been in the business for over 30 years, but every now and again someone would throw something so outrageous at us that owner was just "Well, that's a new one!" and he'd laugh.  So it could be that way with the "You can use your money in your next lifetime" comment, which to me was so outrageous that I could see long-timers be all "Whut?".  Plus they tend to keep Celebrities and normal Joe's separated, so it's possible Leah never encountered some of this crap.  Her reactions can come across as over-the-top, but I believe it's genuine, and just her nature.

[CrystalBlue]

10 hours ago, funky-rat said:

Not just that, but in the past, I worked for a collection agency.  The owner had been in the business for over 30 years, but every now and again someone would throw something so outrageous at us that owner was just "Well, that's a new one!" and he'd laugh.  So it could be that way with the "You can use your money in your next lifetime" comment, which to me was so outrageous that I could see long-timers be all "Whut?".  Plus they tend to keep Celebrities and normal Joe's separated, so it's possible Leah never encountered some of this crap.  Her reactions can come across as over-the-top, but I believe it's genuine, and just her nature.

Yes, Leah is an animated person.  Great personality.

[Twopper]

On 1/17/2019 at 9:15 AM, libgirl2 said:

Well, maybe they don't want to believe it. The celebs are coddled and treated like gods. Feed their egos..... they can ignore a lot of things. 

I think it is a combination of things.  Spanky in the HBO documentary said that the celebs believe their success is due to the Co$ teaching, because "what happens to you that is good is because of Scientology, what happens to you that is bad is due to your own failures"  (not sure I got the quote exact, but that was the gist of it).  Also the confessional nature of auditing leaves open the probability that anything they have said may be used against them.  I think both is true for John Travolta ( my neighbor's daughter in the early 80's thought his name was John Revolta); he just started in Co$ and suddenly he got jobs in tv ads and then relatively quickly starred in "Welcome back, Kotter" which I never watched.  I think the celebs that come in who are already famous like Priscilla Presley are coddled and maybe treated more gently by the auditors assuming they want to "climb the bridge."  Tom Cruise is probably their biggest catch, and they rewarded him with that awards show that really stroked his ego, although I thought he looked absolutely ridiculous. When John Travolta talks about Co$ he sounds like a recorded announcement.   I doubt they see the mistreatment; they seem to keep the celebs separated from the serfs except for the ones that specifically serve the celebs. 

[libgirl2]

33 minutes ago, Twopper said:

I think it is a combination of things.  Spanky in the HBO documentary said that the celebs believe their success is due to the Co$ teaching, because "what happens to you that is good is because of Scientology, what happens to you that is bad is due to your own failures"  (not sure I got the quote exact, but that was the gist of it).  Also the confessional nature of auditing leaves open the probability that anything they have said may be used against them.  I think both is true for John Travolta ( my neighbor's daughter in the early 80's thought his name was John Revolta); he just started in Co$ and suddenly he got jobs in tv ads and then relatively quickly starred in "Welcome back, Kotter" which I never watched.  I think the celebs that come in who are already famous like Priscilla Presley are coddled and maybe treated more gently by the auditors assuming they want to "climb the bridge."  Tom Cruise is probably their biggest catch, and they rewarded him with that awards show that really stroked his ego, although I thought he looked absolutely ridiculous. When John Travolta talks about Co$ he sounds like a recorded announcement.   I doubt they see the mistreatment; they seem to keep the celebs separated from the serfs except for the ones that specifically serve the celebs. 

In her book, Leah said Travolta was really into the technology aspect of it. She also said he is a very nice guy.

[Twopper]

18 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

n her book, Leah said Travolta was really into the technology aspect of it. She also said he is a very nice guy.

I think he is nice;  Spanky really liked him, although it seems she is now a SP so he has no more contact with her which makes him seem not so nice, but then he is following Co$ policy about that.

[Bubbacat]

Reading your comments (getting caught up on the last couple of episodes), I don't disagree about the married couple. They should have seen the many, many red flags before forking over all that money. But I do understand how Co$ can get ahold of vulnerable people because I've seen it. Back in the late 70s/early 80s, I had a friend from high school who was horribly injured in a car accident and was a quadriplegic (totally paralyzed from the neck down). He was basically housebound. His friends (I was one) used to come over to see him as often as we could, but we were all going away to college and moving on with our lives. So it was pretty much him, his mother, and a full-time medical aide in the house most of the time. He played a lot of Dungeons and Dragons and watched a lot of TV, but not much else. His parents had set up a trust fund for him and signed their house over to him so that he would always be taken care of if something happened to them. So he had money. 

At one point, he got a new medical aide who happened to be a Scientologist. I was over there with other friends the day that Co$ came to call. They had the personality tests. Most of us just said, "No way." And we noped out of there. But my friend? Yeah, they had him. They pretty much told him that Co$ and LRH could make him walk again. He turned over almost everything to them without a second thought. And there were Scientologists at the house ALL the time. Most of his friends stopped going over because we didn't want anything to do with us. And the Scientologists made us very uncomfortable. We tried to talk to him about it, but he had stopped listening to us.

He got out of it after a year or so. But most of his money? Yep, gone. It was very, very sad. His parents ended up selling the house and buying him a much smaller place to live, and they were able to make other arrangements for his care. But it was extremely stressful and hard on all of them.

So I can see how it happens to someone who is that vulnerable. Watching the episode made me think of my friend and get VERY sad all over again.

[Maelstrom]

So sorry to hear about your friend's experience, Bubbacat. It's criminal the way the CO$ takes advantage of vulnerable people.

[CrystalBlue]

2 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

So sorry to hear about your friend's experience, Bubbacat. It's criminal the way the CO$ takes advantage of vulnerable people.

Me too.  I hope they all rot in hell.

[summitsw]

I’ve struggled a bit this season because some of the episodes just seemed to be rehashing the same stuff without really adding anything (Disappeared for one). I thought the opener with the JWs was brilliant and I’ve thought at times that maybe if they’re going to keep doing this show they should focus more on other cults and just do specials about Scientology (flip what they’re doing now).

This episode got me though (the ones where they interview multiple people always seem more interesting). I didn’t care so much about the first couple because in all honesty I thought they were pretty stupid and she should have left him, but Tyler, the registrar and the lady who’s mother had her inheritance stolen all pulled on the heartstrings. This ‘church’ is so freaking deplorable, and I honestly can’t believe there isn’t a single law enforcement agency that’s willing to take them on. Surely they had a duty of care to Tyler, and not paying someone appropriately for work undertaken, surely there’s laws against that. Don’t even get me started on the repayment issue, that’s so stupid as to defy belief. 

As for Leah and her reactions, sometimes they annoy me because she acts surprised over stuff that’s fairly common knowledge, if it doesn’t surprise me (and my knowledge about CoS comes from this show and Going Clear) then it shouldn’t surprise her. But there have been a few minutes where I thought she was genuinely surprised, and the use the money in the next life thing was one of them (I think there was also something about MLK in the Paul Haggis ep that she reacted to as well) but most of the time I think she’s just feigning it for effect and it bugs me. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by summitsw

[wendyg]

Remini says in her book that because she entered Scientology while she was still a child, she didn't get the full-on celebrity treatment. She became well-known long after she joined.

AIUI, when you first encounter Scientology one of the first things they have you do is take a personality test. This shows them exactly which buttons to push to manipulate you. These folks are *very* expert at extracting money from people. (btw, the "Give us money and you will get it back 10fold" thing is well-known in evangelical circles as the "prosperity gospel".)