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On 4/24/2020 at 12:53 AM, Court said:

But when he said "those people", I wanted to punch him in the mouth. Asshole.

On the other side of the spectrum, we have all of the awesome people in the Nicaraguan justice system who threw the book at Orlando for killing Haley Anderson.  Well done!  Mad props to the judge.

Plus, if Orlando does ever try to enter the United States again, he can be tried for her murder here as well.

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Here's hoping the next 30 years in a Nicaraguan penitentiary wipes the smug off of Orlando's face.  

RIP Haley.                                                                                                                                                                                     

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For a moment there I thought this was going to be another tale of hor corrupt/inept foreign judicial systems are, but was happily suprised.

Orlando's friends seemed terribly obtuse to the facts, though. 

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The judge in Nicaragua was not having it. I had a feeling they were going to blame the 'drunk American slut' for corrupting the poor boy. He couldn't control her so he killed her, period.

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I don't know what to think about the Mary Day story, I kept going back and forth. I thought she was another daughter the mother had and then I thought she was the real Mary Day. No matter what, it's sad. A little girl that was abused and handed back to her abusers. A woman who died and no one had a funeral for her. 

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1 minute ago, druzy said:

A woman who died and no one had a funeral for her. 

That was utterly heartbreaking to read. Yeah, whether she's Mary or not, the fact remains her life was shit overall either way and it had a tragic end either way. And if she's not Mary, on top of all the other crap in her life, her own parents were taking advantage of and using her for their own selfish desire to protect themselves. 

But yes, I find myself still on the fence a bit, too. I can totally buy the parents trying to cover things up-I mean, why the hell would the stepfather make those weird comments about some demon possessing him, and why would his wife act so freaking shifty, if they were so innocent? And with the family being so fractured as it was, with kids being removed from the home and whatnot, I don't rule out the possibility of a "secret daughter", as it were. And as the one investigator noted, those dogs clearly found something during their searches. 

But yes, the DNA evidence is pretty significant, too, and she definitely looks a lot like the Mary in question. And if the woman is actually Mary, then what the hell's the deal with that tiny shoe they found? Between that shoe, the dogs' intense focus on those two areas (that can't be a mere coincidence), and the parents' bizarre behavior, even if it's true they've found Mary and resolved that case, they still need to keep looking into those parents anyway, because something really creepy and weird is/was clearly going on there. 

Such a bizarre, sad case. 

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My gut says she wasn't Mary.  She was still screwed over by her parents, but I think she was Charlotte's daughter yet not Mary.  The dogs alerting in the backyard is big for me.  There were human remains in the backyard at one time.  The only options I see with that scenario are the one we saw in the episode or she was indeed Mary and her parents killed another unknown  child.

Those parents are horrific, and it bothers me that they have almost certainly gotten away with some sort of crime.

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15 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

My gut says she wasn't Mary.  She was still screwed over by her parents, but I think she was Charlotte's daughter yet not Mary. 

During the episode, they said that Phoenix Mary took DNA tests that matched her to Charlotte and Mary Day's deceased biological father.  With those results, it is extremely unlikely that Phoenix Mary could be someone other than Mary Day.  I'll grant you that the episode did a good job of misleading the audience into thinking this was an open question, but they did eventually clear the issue up..     

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26 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

My gut says she wasn't Mary.  She was still screwed over by her parents, but I think she was Charlotte's daughter yet not Mary.  The dogs alerting in the backyard is big for me.  There were human remains in the backyard at one time.  The only options I see with that scenario are the one we saw in the episode or she was indeed Mary and her parents killed another unknown  child.

Those parents are horrific, and it bothers me that they have almost certainly gotten away with some sort of crime.

My gut says the same. Where was her sister Billie Jean? Also, who was Morrie Kimmel? How did her daughter meet Mary/ Monica? Why wouldn't Morrie ask Mary were she lived and about her family before allowing her to live with her? I also would need more details about the person who gave DNA in lieu of her father. 

If they are going to rely on age progression programs, then this doesn't look like the Mary that passed away.

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24 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

During the episode, they said that Phoenix Mary took DNA tests that matched her to Charlotte and Mary Day's deceased biological father.  With those results, it is extremely unlikely that Phoenix Mary could be someone other than Mary Day.  I'll grant you that the episode did a good job of misleading the audience into thinking this was an open question, but they did eventually clear the issue up..     

Seriously, the fact that she also was the biological daughter of the birth father was said as an aside. I was curious about their birth father given that he had apparently some funds and the wisdom to set up trusts for the girls. 

 

10 minutes ago, druzy said:

If they are going to rely on age progression programs, then this doesn't look like the Mary that passed away.

 

Age progression gets less accurate the longer it goes out because of other factors like disease, alcohol/drug abuse, nutrition etc.. The one on the show was only a few years. That said I do think that age progression there does look like the Mugshot when she was first arrested in Phoenix. 

Edited by biakbiak
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34 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

During the episode, they said that Phoenix Mary took DNA tests that matched her to Charlotte and Mary Day's deceased biological father.

I thought the match was to Charlotte but NOT Mary Louise's biological father.  I seem to remember a line in the episode that only a maternal tie could be definitively established.

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14 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

I thought the match was to Charlotte but NOT Mary Louise's biological father.  I seem to remember a line in the episode that only a maternal tie could be definitively established.

Later in the episode they said that she did match the biological father of the girls that is what closed the case. 

Edited by biakbiak
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Such a weird and heartbreaking story!  I have to agree with just about all the other posts here - and it now seems like the mystery is who was apparently once buried in the areas that the cadaver dogs sniffed out and how strange was it that the dogs sniffed out areas in TWO different locations where these people lived.  

Maybe there was a different, young, child who was killed (thus the very small shoe) who the other girls don't remember?  Or was this possible victim even a child of this family or another child who "the demon" murdered?  Back in the 80s there was almost a hysteria in this country about "Satanic Cults" and all sorts of people got pulled into this craziness.   That mother - words just can't express - and the step-father - he probably got away with murdering SOMEBODY, but who? 

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When she finally allowed the correspondent an interview only days before her death, I was thinking she either is Mary or she will unburden herself from the lie at that time. The correspondent seemed to believe her. 

In any case, I remain astounded that some people are allowed to have custody of children. 

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2 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Later in the episode they said that she did match the biological father of the girls that is what closed the case.

Yes.  There was no secret sibling called into action to impersonate Mary, and no buried body of Mary moved around as the family moved to various locations. 

2 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

I have to agree with just about all the other posts here - and it now seems like the mystery is who was apparently once buried in the areas that the cadaver dogs sniffed out and how strange was it that the dogs sniffed out areas in TWO different locations where these people lived.  

You could also look at it from the perspective that the dogs were brought to the property about 20 years after the family lived there.  The same goes for the signaling at Fort Ord, where the property had thousands of people go through it at a given time, and had been open to trespassers and the elements since it shut down in the 1990s.  My main point being that the show wanted us to think the signaling was meaningful, when the reality was it very easily could have had nothing to do with this particular family.        

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34 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Yes.  There was no secret sibling called into action to impersonate Mary, and no buried body of Mary moved around as the family moved to various locations. 

You could also look at it from the perspective that the dogs were brought to the property about 20 years after the family lived there.  The same goes for the signaling at Fort Ord, where the property had thousands of people go through it at a given time, and had been open to trespassers and the elements since it shut down in the 1990s.  My main point being that the show wanted us to think the signaling was meaningful, when the reality was it very easily could have had nothing to do with this particular family.        

I grew up in the area and was about 10 when this happened. I have never heard of this case until this week. I do remember a case a few years after where the father on base had left the family (either AWOL or he was off on assignment) and there were many kids in the family that  a young boy (12 or 13) was left in charge of. They were all going hungry and the boy feeling overwhelmed hung himself in the garage of the home. There was a lot of fall out from this and the military was accused of not appropriately supporting families. Several changes were made after this.

In regards to this case, back then the stepdad could have killed her and then they moved on.  I keep going back to the Southern accent.  Her story made it sound like she stuck around the west. If it was really her then why did she appear independently of the parents? A lot of signs point to it being someone else but then she had the same DNA as both parents so....

I agree though that the cadaver dogs hitting on something on the base is meaningless. Homeless people have died out there of natural causes, there have also been murders and body dumps. The most well known is the murder of a young girl, Christina Williams which happened in the 90's. The killer was just recently caught and convicted through DNA. They think he probably killed more people out there as well. Even though a lot of it is a college campus today, it's a creepy place.

Lots of loose ends in this case that will probably never be tied together.

Edited by Soobs
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44 minutes ago, Soobs said:

grew up in the area and was about 10 when this happened. I have never heard of this case until this week.

I don’t know if you still live there but it wasn’t a case until 2003 because no one went to the authorities about her going missing until the sister was an adult. 

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On 5/3/2020 at 11:33 AM, druzy said:

Where was her sister Billie Jean?

Is that the 4th child in the family picture they kept showing?

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On 5/3/2020 at 8:44 AM, biakbiak said:

Seriously, the fact that she also was the biological daughter of the birth father was said as an aside. I was curious about their birth father given that he had apparently some funds and the wisdom to set up trusts for the girls. 

 

Age progression gets less accurate the longer it goes out because of other factors like disease, alcohol/drug abuse, nutrition etc.. The one on the show was only a few years. That said I do think that age progression there does look like the Mugshot when she was first arrested in Phoenix. 

I thought that the funds in the trust came from some kind of payout as they said the bio dad died in an accident, So maybe either an insurance policy, or some kind of payout depending on what type of accident he died in - work place, car, etc. 

I have no problem believing that Phoenix Mary was Mary Day. I thought Phoenix Mary's mug shot  looked even more like teenager Mary than the age progression picture. And I think it was a reach for the police to think there was another daughter that was older, and given up for adoption because the mother had fooled around on the father, given that Phoenix Mary had the same bio dad as Mary Day. I also thought it was far fetched to think that the mother and step father would then track down the now adult daughter, and convince her to save her mother - who gave her up for adoption and is a stranger - because mom's husband killed her younger bio sister and they need to produce a living person. 

I also thought in the interviews with Phoenix Mary, her answers made sense. Also in the picture shown just before P Mary died, she still looked so much like teenage Mary. I think what the female cop at the end said is true - you have to look at the evidence, not make what you think is true fit the "evidence". We have certainly seen that time and time again in these crime shows.

As far as the cadaver dogs goes, who knows? I watched a show recently about a missing child. Police were given a tip that the child was buried in the back yard of the family home. They brought in cadaver dogs who found nothing so they did not dig, even though the caller gave a specific part of the yard. Several years later the murderer confessed to get a deal, and led them to the exact spot that the tipster had said, where the body was then recovered. Not the same scenario of course, but they are not infallible. 

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Haley Anderson's story is such a scary one.  Kids should be free to socialize and date, and trusting others is just a part of that.  Should you just lock yourself in your room when you're in college and not make friends?  I don't think Haley did anything risky to put herself in harms way.  She was just living the way the majority of young college women do.  And all it takes is one freak to end your life.  It could have happened (or happen to) any one of us.  So very sad.   

The sister who was raised apart from Mary made amends with her at the end.  What about the other sister who was in the home with her?  She said she sensed it wasn't Mary.  I wonder if she ever resolved herself to the fact that it really was?  That was just an odd story.

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Mary Day was such a heartbreaking story. What a haunting mystery! I’m curious what the dogs picked up. 
The accent was one of the strangest parts of the mystery to me. But several years ago I knew a guy who fell out of life, regular society. Not only did his personality shift but his accent, way of speaking completely changed. It was odd. 

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