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On 11/24/2019 at 7:33 PM, biakbiak said:

They said he was going to court to try to get full custody so that seems more the motive. 

I think he was going for full custody so that he wouldn't have his financial affairs become public when she took him to court for child support.

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The Amie Harwich case breaks my heart, but it also sends my rage through the roof. I realize society is more aware of  stalking cases because of higher media profiles thanks to the internet, etc. So although it may seem that there are more and more cases of exes being stalked, I have a feeling that this has been going on a long time. What surprises me is that with all these women being threatened by their exes, the people in their lives haven't been more assertive. I suppose I just have a temper when it comes to inappropriate behaviour, especially bullying. I just don't understand why more and more people do not step in and say, "STOP IT" to the person involved. By remaining quiet, or staying 'out of it', we are condoning the  behaviour. If your associate is actively harassing his or her ex, it is up to you and others to point out when they are behaving unreasonably. It doesn't cost anything, or hurt anyone, to tell someone their response is bordering criminal.

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When I was 24 an ex-boyfriend started following me around. After a couple weeks of that, he threw a drink on me at a club. A couple days later when another date was bringing me back to my apartment, he was suddenly there, opened the door and pulled me out of the car. (My date drove off!) He screamed at me that I had no idea what was coming and that he was going to "destroy my life."  

I was so terrified, I drove to my parents house and stayed there for two weeks. The cops treated me like it was some stupid boyfriend drama. The guy never did anything else, so I am really lucky. This was 30 years ago, but I can still feel that fear just writing this. I can't imagine the terror these women live with. 

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I am impressed, 48 Hours! I think they saved some lives.

That dark web stuff is so crazy. 

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Re: S33:E21, "The Case Against Sandra Garner" - that case made me question whether I could be objective as a  juror because I would have found her guilty based on her screechy, whiny voice alone. Plus, there was the whole business with the hidden murder weapon. And her lack of concern about immediately going back to the house where her husband had been killed even though the murderer, who was kind enough to leave her as a witness, was still at large. Then she later agrees with her lawyers' determination that the previously unidentifiable (though unusually chatty) killer was probably her son.  The whole story was odd.  I would have loved to have seen an interview with some of the jury members to see how they reached their verdict.

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1 hour ago, Mannahatta said:

Re: S33:E21, "The Case Against Sandra Garner"

She was in jail for almost 2 years, who paid for her house and the upkeep on it ?

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Re The Case Against Sandra Garner, as soon as they told what they found on her PC history, (she Googled how to kill a person, etc.) my brain said she's guilty.  Then when they found the gun in her car, I wondered if she was being set up because she would be a very dumb criminal if she hides a murder weapon right on her property for the police to find. 

After watching the entire show, I've decided that Sandra was in on it WITH her son.   They both wanted the father out of the picture and cooked up this hit on him.

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But if they were in on it together, wouldn't it be stupid for the son to point police in her direction? 

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This was an interesting case. I could not have convicted Sandra based on what was shown. I loved the defense attorney, and thought the female prosecutor was very weak. In fact hubby and I both laughed at some of the things she said. Did they even come up with a supposed motive? In any case I am glad that Sandra was acquitted. 

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At the beginning they mentioned Sandra was diagnosed with MS, and it got so bad she needed her husband’s care, and I think she couldn’t work anymore.  After the murder, her illness was never mentioned again.  If she was so debilitated before the crime, she sure didn’t look worse for wear after 21 mos in prison.  Did her symptoms miraculously go into remission during her ordeal?  

The son was defiantly squirrelly.  I think he put the gun in the car, and he was just too helpful to offer up clues to pin murder on his mother. 

The husband had 40+ guns in the house so he could ‘be ready in case he needed one’.  Well, that plan didn’t work out, did it? Just when his home is allegedly invaded, the only nearby gun ended up in the wrong hands!  And if they were gun- totin’ gun-lovin’ gun-havin’ folks, why was the murder weapon so rusty?  Don’t must gun owners keep their guns in good condition?  Or maybe with so many guns too keep up with, a few got lost in the maintenance cycle?
 

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5 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

At the beginning they mentioned Sandra was diagnosed with MS, and it got so bad she needed her husband’s care, and I think she couldn’t work anymore.  After the murder, her illness was never mentioned again.  If she was so debilitated before the crime, she sure didn’t look worse for wear after 21 mos in prison.  Did her symptoms miraculously go into remission during her ordeal?  

The son was defiantly squirrelly.  I think he put the gun in the car, and he was just too helpful to offer up clues to pin murder on his mother. 

The husband had 40+ guns in the house so he could ‘be ready in case he needed one’.  Well, that plan didn’t work out, did it? Just when his home is allegedly invaded, the only nearby gun ended up in the wrong hands!  And if they were gun- totin’ gun-lovin’ gun-havin’ folks, why was the murder weapon so rusty?  Don’t must gun owners keep their guns in good condition?  Or maybe with so many guns too keep up with, a few got lost in the maintenance cycle?
 

They said the gun was found in the car wrapped in a wet towel, which I thought was odd.  Explains the rust though...

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36 minutes ago, jabinlbc said:

They said the gun was found in the car wrapped in a wet towel, which I thought was odd.  Explains the rust though...

Would just a couple of days wrapped in a wet towel be long enough to generate that much rust, though?  (Not being argumentative, just wondering.)  I thought it was strange that it got rusty that fast, so I Googled the kind of gun that was used, and apparently the metallic part of the body is stainless steel.  (There are several body types, but the gun they showed as hers was shiny under the rust, so I'm assuming this was the stainless model.)  It seemed very quick, unless the gun was kept in the wet towel for some time before the killing.  But then . . . why?

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19 minutes ago, Mondrianyone said:

Would just a couple of days wrapped in a wet towel be long enough to generate that much rust, though?  (Not being argumentative, just wondering.)  I thought it was strange that it got rusty that fast, so I Googled the kind of gun that was used, and apparently the metallic part of the body is stainless steel.  (There are several body types, but the gun they showed as hers was shiny under the rust, so I'm assuming this was the stainless model.)  It seemed very quick, unless the gun was kept in the wet towel for some time before the killing.  But then . . . why?

When I saw this I had the same question - how long was it in there, and wouldn't the towel have dried out before they found it (assuming it had been in there for a while)?  And why wrap it in a wet towel in the first place???

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On 3/8/2020 at 11:38 PM, UsernameFatigue said:

Did they even come up with a supposed motive? In any case I am glad that Sandra was acquitted. 

 

Edited by Chalby · Reason: Posted about wrong episode

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On 2/24/2020 at 7:56 AM, TVbitch said:

 A couple days later when another date was bringing me back to my apartment, he was suddenly there, opened the door and pulled me out of the car. (My date drove off!)

It's this part that concerns me the most. Your 'date' could have gone and got you help, or asked if you needed help pressing charges or... He didn't have to stay and fight the guy, but he should have gotten you help.

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On 7/1/2019 at 7:00 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

 During the murder of one of the ladies, the intruder killed one of the women inside the house.  He then raped the other lady. She called 911 and asked for help, told the dispatcher what had happened and was taken to the hospital.  They did do a rape kit and got the DNA.  For some reason that lady also died, though, I never heard why.  Anyone know how she died?  It seemed as if it must have been shortly after the attack. 

I do remember watching that episode because I am sure they found the killer through the familial DNA. The 2nd lady survived for many years, but just not long enough to see the fellow brought to trial. That was chilling on many levels. I believe it was her grandson who was able to represent her.

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On 2/8/2020 at 11:03 PM, Steph J said:

decided it was appropriate to do a jaunty little flip of his water bottle on his way to the stand to testify in a murder trial where he was the apparent motive.

He will forever be remembered as that doofus who appeared thrilled at the notion that one time in his life, somebody "wanted" him.

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I watched the Sandra case. Up until the end, I could have gone either way on whether she did it. 

But her being so sure her son did it actually convinced me of her guilt. She at the very least covered for him or was in on it.  I don't buy for one second she wouldn't have recognized her son even with a mask or his voice. Especially she said the dude had an extended conversation with her.

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"The DNA points to Kevin Cooper"  ???????? You said it was 3 white or hispanic males.

Get it together man

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I simply can’t understand how anyone thinks one person who didn’t have any marks on him killed four people in that manner. 

Not to mention the fact that the car was found a decent distance from the house and Kevin Cooper was found in a house near the murders makes no sense given they maintain he killed them for the car! 
I wonder who raised the kid. I thought it was interesting that his grandmother didn’t believe that Cooper was guilty and he did even though it contradicts his initial statement.

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In addition to the dramatics and the vocal fry and the uptalking, Caroline seemed a little high . . . on something, I don't know what. 

1 hour ago, BusyOctober said:

Did anyone think Susan looked a little too much like Caroline? I’ve heard of “Daddy Issues”; is there such thing as “Daughter Issues”?  Cree-py!

Definitely.

A little weird that their dog was named Susie, given the wife's name is Susan.  At first I thought it might be the dog she took over from the first wife, but wasn't that first dog black?  This one was white, so not likely the same dog.

Also, as a left-handed person, I always pay attention to issues of handedness when they arise in these cases.  They claimed she cut her right wrist using the knife in her left hand.  Since about 90% of Americans are righties, the odds are she is, too.  So who would use her undominant hand to cut the wrist of her dominant hand?  I wouldn't risk lifting a spoonful of hot soup to my mouth in my right hand because I'm so incompetent with it.  It's not definitive for sure, but I was surprised that no one brought up which hand was her dominant one (or they did and we didn't hear about it). 

And I really believe he went into the bedroom to find her on her knees holding a knife.  If you have that much time to devise a story, you should be able to come up with something better than the nonsense he concocted.

 

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Is it just me or does the daughter have Daddy issues? Just sayin.......I’m thinking he was guilty just by the sheer amount of blood and wounds to the wife and barely a scratch on him. That said, the wife seemed like a boozer and probably drove him to it just to shut her up. Basically, it was a 50-50 split. I’m not really sure who is guilty. At least, he didn’t get more charges tacked on by the informant already in jail. I always think it’s funny when the people already in jail become credible snitches. LOL!!!!

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Ugh, that daughter! 
She’s definitely on some kind of sedative, which makes the vocal fry and affectation especially grating. I am so tired of these assholes with their tearless, fake-crying theatrics. Do they think they’re fooling anyone? Both the daughter and the ex-wife are horrible people for enabling this POS in his lies and criminal behavior. 

Quote

That said, the wife seemed like a boozer and probably drove him to it just to shut her up.

If things are so bad that your spouse is driving you to murder (???!), then get a damned divorce! That is what the non-psychopathic majority of people do!

This ABUSER is obviously pretty f****d-up if he is (A) attracted to an abusive alcoholic in the first place, (B) is such a pathological, convincing liar, and (C) thinks he can get away with stabbing his wife and telling her he’s just going to wait next to her until she bleeds out and dies. What a cruel son of a bitch. 

Edited by 7isBlue · Reason: Punctuation
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Yikes. I spent most of the episode trying to put aside my disgust with the daughter which was severely clouding my judgement, but boy did she make it hard. As if the vocal fry wasn’t enough, when asked how much her wedding gown cost and she hesitated because it was gauche? Ugh.

Anyway, Susan quite possibly was abusive and had a drinking problem, but no was in hell the two of them laid in bed together, bleeding profusely, soaked in blood and ‘other waste’, and had the best conversation they ever had. He’s guilty.

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I thought I was going to be able to root for the ex wife, in spite of having raised that ridiculous bride-child, but I keep going back to “the things she left behind, including her dog”. That’s enough for me.

 

And...it is much more likely that the daughter was jealous of the new wife, not the other way around. Just my two cents.

Edited by arejay
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I’d like to know what the cameras showed just before he went into the guest room. Did he go in just because?  Did she ask him to come there? Were there any text messages asking him to come?  

If he turned off the cameras to stage this burglary, what was on them before and after?

I don’t think I really liked any of these people. And for no real reason, I feel like the first wife has way more info. I’m guessing she got a really good divorce settlement if she vacated the family home  and spoke well of him to the kids, and she keeps her mouth shut. 

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Just over 2 mins long.  I thought this would clear up what I mentioned in my above post but it didn’t. They show the dog at the guest room door but didn’t show him going in. I’d love to know the layout of the house to see how far apart the rooms were. 

I also don’t believe the fart story of why he was backing up. 

Edited by Tdoc72
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What a group of strange. Not one person I have sympathy for. OK, maybe the dad loving daughter's new husband, his day is coming. Then again, he had to have known how Extra that awful daughter is . . . goes double for Susan the drunk wife. So back to no sympathy for anyone.

"two of them laid in bed together, bleeding profusely, soaked in blood and ‘other waste’, and had the best conversation they ever had." "gauche" wedding dress".

Also, not buying  the First wife honorably leaving the home post divorce so the college kids have a home to come back to. Rich guy most likely ordered and paid her to go away. 

And what does rich guy do after stabbing drunk wife, head to dating sites to look for someone who would be nice and kind to him, like the 18 year naked girl.

Would love to know back story of this group. Can you imagine working with that daughter? 

Edited by itsadryheat
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14 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

Wonder why Mike’s other daughter was absent from this story? 

Because she's the Tiffany to the other one's Ivanka.

5 hours ago, arejay said:

I thought I was going to be able to root for the ex wife, in spite of having raised that ridiculous bride-child, but I keep going back to “the things she left behind, including her dog”. That’s enough for me.

Here's what I don't understand about the first divorce: ex-wife said that she's the one who left the house because she wanted the daughters to always be able to go back to the home they grew up in.  But if she had stayed and he had left, they'd still be able to do that, no?  I think there's a big chunk of that divorce story that's being left out and I think the missing piece only emphasizes how manipulative that guy is.

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This story was a perfect example of Ann Lander's saying " The holes in her head match the rocks in his".  

One of the first things I noticed was how much the obnoxious daughter and #2 wife looked alike.  That alone was kind of weird, especially because wife #1 didnt look like that.  And I could imagine wife #2 resented the daughter because there probably were some boundry issues there (speaking as a person with, ahem, experience with that).  

I guess what really gets me with about how fucked up that marriage was, was that these people could have had such a wonderful life.  They had money, good health, freedom and what did they do with all these blessings?  Booze, abuse, attempted murder... 

I will say that 11K dress was f-ing gorgeous!

Edited by 12catcrazy · Reason: Typo
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1 hour ago, itsadryheat said:

like the 18 year naked girl.

Like the 18-year-old naked Ukrainian girl.  Because they tend to be a bit more manageable when English isn't their first language and you can hold a green card over their head. 

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Mike Reuschel is one cold bastard, with a seriously annoying daughter. He deserve to be in jail just for raising that drama queen twit.

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I wasn’t paying attention at the beginning so I was shocked when they revealed that Susan and Caroline weren’t genetically related! They looked so much a like.

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To be fair to Mike, when I've been stabbed in the gut, had my wrist cut open, soiled myself and am bleeding out --that is, in fact, my favorite time to make travel plans. 

Me thinks ex-wife and daughter mostly love Mike's money. 

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6 hours ago, Mondrianyone said:

Like the 18-year-old naked Ukrainian girl.  Because they tend to be a bit more manageable when English isn't their first language and you can hold a green card over their head. 

Reminds me of the Russian woman on Shameless that married an old man for money.  Yep. A naked 18 year old ( probably closer to 35) is only interested in the man's love.

Also, the defense pathologist happens to have lost his medical license for putting body parts , in plastic containers, in a storage facility.  Reason why was he didn't think they were safe in his house.

Edited by howiveaddict
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What an odious bunch!  Selfish greed, clueless support for a murderer-wannabe, nerve-shattering vocal fry, and over-the-top drama. The entire episode was completely annoying. 

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12 hours ago, itsadryheat said:

OMG, that engagement picture is hilarious. They look more like co workers than an engaged couple. And he with the scarf casually wrapped around his neck. Trying way, too, hard. That said, I am surprised that Caroline revealed that her dress cost $11,000. For a wedding that went $150,000 over budget, that seems positively bargain basement.

Caroline was definitely the star of this episode, in a train wreck can't look away kind of way. The vocal fry was the worst I have ever heard, and that is saying a lot as we hear it often in these types of shows. Poor Peter Van Sant was visibly wincing several times during the interview - his poor ears must have been bleeding.  I didn't notice the vocal fry when Caroline was giving a statement on the stand though, on dear old dad's behalf. Nor the false eyelashes, and her hair looked like vermin could nest in it quite easily. All to no avail as the judge was not swayed. I suppose Caroline is upset because Susan will now walk away with a chunk of her inheritance. Boo hoo. 

 

Edited by UsernameFatigue
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I’m disappointed we didn’t get two hours to showcase Caroline more. So many disturbing things about this episode, these people. Just, wow. 
 

The gauche dress was gorgeous. $150,000 over budget? Whose budget? 

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On 4/5/2020 at 12:11 PM, 12catcrazy said:

This story was a perfect example of Ann Lander's saying " The holes in her head match the rocks in his".  

One of the first things I noticed was how much the obnoxious daughter and #2 wife looked alike.  That alone was kind of weird, especially because wife #1 didnt look like that.  And I could imagine wife #2 resented the daughter because there probably were some boundry issues there (speaking as a person with, ahem, experience with that).  

I guess what really gets me with about how fucked up that marriage was, was that these people could have had such a wonderful life.  They had money, good health, freedom and what did they do with all these blessings?  Booze, abuse, attempted murder... 

I will say that 11K dress was f-ing gorgeous!

The daughter didn’t have that total glitzy blond thing going on in her younger years (based on the family photos we saw). I feel like she kind of morphed into the new  TROPHY WIFE’s style. Maybe coincidence. It did seem a little creepy. 

I agree that the wedding dress was stunningly beautiful!

Would love to read a comprehensive book on this one. I also think LOTS of info was omitted. 

Edited by Tabbygirl521
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On 4/9/2020 at 4:04 PM, Tabbygirl521 said:

Would love to read a comprehensive book on this one. I also think LOTS of info was omitted. 

Me too! All snark aside it felt like there was too much info omitted. This deserved another hour. Judging from articles I’ve read online, this needs a book and more specials. 

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Wow, just wow. I didnt like one person in this whole thing.  And, I agree, a lot must have been left out. I have a strange feeling that they were all heavy drinkers.

Good Lord, the daughter, thats all I can say.

From the article linked above it seems Sue was angry for the wedding going over budget, but it was ok that she spent $9000 on her own dress.

Edited by MsJamieDornan
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It's terrible that innocent guy is rotting in jail, but I hate it when they do an episode that is not resolved yet. I get agitated and then there is no resolution. 

And why on earth would that boy protect his ex-girfriend who just shot him in the chest? Maybe they were out there hooking up and he didn't want the new girlfriend to find out. 

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I’m sure the ex-girlfriend was guilty and feel really bad for the guy who’s wrongly spent 30 years in prison. 

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The State of Florida just looks wretched in the whole mess.  Kim Hallock should be a suspect by now.  For the love of Pete...

If Crosley Green gets covid-19 (God forbid) while sitting in jail (where he should not be), his family should sue Florida into oblivion.

Christopher White is one dangerous human being.  Can't tell if he's actually that dumb or if it's just a cover for evil intentions.

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4 hours ago, TVbitch said:

terrible that innocent guy is rotting in jail, but I hate it when they do an episode that is not resolved yet. I get agitated and then there is no resolution. 

I googled at the start of the show because I just couldn’t watch an hour that ended with this man in prison during this time and when I found out he was still there I deleted the episode. 

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I grew up in the town where the Crosley Green case happened.  The guy who previously owned Chip's truck was a year behind me in high school. 

From what I was reading on local Facebook groups last night, Kim still lives there and her husband teaches at the high school.  99% of the people chatting believed Crosley is innocent.

Christopher White made my skin crawl.  

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6 hours ago, Ohmo said:

Christopher White is one dangerous human being.  Can't tell if he's actually that dumb or if it's just a cover for evil intentions.

Honestly, I think he's just surprised that after so many years of being able to get away with it he's suddenly getting called out for it.

Erin Moriarty did a fantastic job holding his feet to the fire. Her contempt for him was delicious.

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On 4/19/2020 at 9:12 PM, Steph J said:

Honestly, I think he's just surprised that after so many years of being able to get away with it he's suddenly getting called out for it.

Erin Moriarty did a fantastic job holding his feet to the fire. Her contempt for him was delicious.

I'm just watching this episode and I agree with this. I'm infuriated with this prosecutor. Oh she lives near you so she can't do it? That's not how it works. 

I loved Erin challenging him and not giving an inch. 

I haven't finished. But when he said "those people", I wanted to punch him in the mouth. Asshole.

Edited by Court
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