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I watched it but couldn't find the forum! 

I can't imagine the terror. It did portray the police as somewhat inept, but I think it iluminated how fluid these situations need to be. There has been criticism of police not going in and taking a shooter down fast enough, and so new training was developed that has police busting in and taking the shooter down as quickly as possible to spare the most lives. However, this was not that situation, and the police were right to listen when the hostages said to negotiate. I'm sure it's difficult for them too. 

I'm glad the one, um, louder lady admitted that while she wanted the lady helping the guy neogtiate to just grab the gun, she herself would probably not be able to.  

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I know the focus of this show was the hostages, but I really wish they had gone a bit more into Mely Corado, the store manager who was shot and killed by the LAPD.  I know her brother and had met her once or twice.  Understandably, the family has been completely devastated and had almost no cooperation from the LAPD as to what really happened and how she was killed.  They won't provide video footage, other than a very, very edited version.  At least this episode shows the LAPD's unbelievable mismanagement of this entire event...

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Man, I'm anti-death penalty but cases like the Daniel Marsh case really test that.  Just pure, pure evil.  Stabbing two elderly people 60+ times (each) and then saying that it felt "amazing" and then having the gall to stand in front of an audience and declare that "Hurt people hurt people?"  Hell is too good for someone like him.

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27 minutes ago, Steph J said:

Just pure, pure evil.  Stabbing two elderly people 60+ times (each) and then saying that it felt "amazing" and then having the gall to stand in front of an audience and declare that "Hurt people hurt people?"  Hell is too good for someone like him.

Add to that destroying the life of the person the police went after who ended up killing himself. So much damage.

His attitude during that TedtalkX that I can’t even believe happened and on the stand was all about him and his pain and didn’t seem to have any remorse or responsiblity for the murders.

I do have issues with teenagers being tried as an adult but I cannot believe, and don’r think I realized at the time because I voted for it, is that the new law was retroactive which had to be a nightmare for the court system.

Edited by biakbiak
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10 hours ago, Steph J said:

Man, I'm anti-death penalty but cases like the Daniel Marsh case really test that.  Just pure, pure evil.  Stabbing two elderly people 60+ times (each) and then saying that it felt "amazing" and then having the gall to stand in front of an audience and declare that "Hurt people hurt people?"  Hell is too good for someone like him.

All those people thinking he should be set free should volunteer to be his neighbors.

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Wow.  If there is a person who should have gotten the death penalty its this guy Marsh.  And his father still defends him....

If my memory is correct, most of the laws trying teenagers as adults were passed in the 80s due to a number of terrible crimes committed by teens who then got off with a slap to the wrist and their records sealed when they turned 21.  I am mostly a liberal-minded person but a case like this makes my inner conservative come to the forfront and mutter about "bleeding hearts".  And if this monster gets out, you know damn well he will kill again, but this time be smart enough not to blab to a friend.  If he hadnt done that, he would have never been caught.  The cops get their tunnel vision and thats where they look.  Oh, it couldnt be a stranger cutting a screen to get in; it MUST be a family member with a key who only cut the screen to make it look like a stranger did it! 

I'll tell ya, if Marsh gets out, if I was the friend who ratted him out, I'd be looking over my shoulder all the time.  And how the hell do those lawyers sleep at night?  Do they REALLY think this was a good kid at heart who really didnt understand what he was doing?  That his anger at Mommy drove him to kill animals and people who never did a damn thing to him???  If they have any sense, they'd wash their hands instead of going for appeal after appeal.

Edited by 12catcrazy · Reason: Typos
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I don't care what age he is, that human has no business being around other humans. Ever. Period. 

And if he gets out at 25, is his record sealed? Cuz law enforcement should always be apprised of his whereabouts. 

Can't believe that therapist was so fooled by Daniel's "turnaround." That Ted talk could not have been more disingenuous, and on the stand he clearly lacked empathy. I guess since Daniel wasn't threatening to kill him anymore, he felt that was growth. 

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I am opposed to life sentences for juvenile offenders... but for serious crimes, I am in favor of very long sentences (such as 25 years minimum) and after that, appearances before the parole board to determine if they are eligible to be released

The interview with Daniel Marsh is one of the most unnerving I have ever seen. The negative energy radiating from that guy was on a whole other level.  Truly, truly disturbing.  I may need to set up a google alert on his name because I need to know where this guy ends up, and if he commits any crimes in the future.

Thank you 48 Hours for putting this guy on so that all of America can see who he really is. That is truly a gift.  I can't imagine anyone would want him in their neighborhood after seeing just those few short clips of his police interview. This episode needs to be re-aired every year or so to ensure that as many people as possible learn who this guy is. 

I also think we should enact a law that anyone who is convicted of a serious crime, regardless of age, should not be allowed to ever legally change their name. That is my fear with this guy. I can see him doing something like that. 

I know that many criminals use fake names and steal identities, etc, but at the bare minimum they should not be allowed to do a legal name change.

The sad fact is that he is only going to become more sophisticated in his abilities to adopt a false persona, and do things to evade detection if/when he does commit a crime.  He was quite young when he thought to put tape on his shoes, wear gloves and mask, put those items in the bodies, etc.   He will only become more dangerous with each passing year. 

Edited by ChristmasJones
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Truly scary. He said he got a high from killing and his life improved afterwards. His grades got better. Very scary.

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He’s a psychopath and it’s scary how well he learned to fake remorse and tell the story of real abuse.  Like I agree with what he was saying but for other people, not him and those cold, dead eyes.  I do feel empathy for him only in that he has no idea of his depravity and inhumanity.

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Aaron Major: I think he did it, and I hope the new cops who are handling the case are able to find enough evidence to lead to his arrest and conviction.

That first cop, who (yikes) is now the police chief ticked me off.  This happened in 2008, not the Dark Ages.  The spouse/SO should always be looked at hard.

Very similar case to Christopher Watts and Patrick Frazee, who are more recent.  Another reason why I'm glad I like being alone.  Dating and relationships are now dangerous to one's health and well-being, particularly if one is female.

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3 hours ago, Ohmo said:

That first cop, who (yikes) is now the police chief ticked me off.  This happened in 2008, not the Dark Ages.  The spouse/SO should always be looked at hard.

Especially when the details of their story keeps changing and they have clear injuries of their own.  I'm sure Aaron Major did punch a wall.  I'm also sure that he did that because his hand was already busted and he needed an excuse for why.

The original investigator seemed so uninterested in even considering the case to be a homicide that I was half expecting the show to reveal that he was a friend of the Major family.  Instead I guess his issue was some combination of laziness/complacency and misogyny (if he had uttered the phrase "Bitches be crazy" I wouldn't have been surprised; that certainly seemed to be his approach to dealing with the victim's mother).

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1 hour ago, Steph J said:

Instead I guess his issue was some combination of laziness/complacency and misogyny (if he had uttered the phrase "Bitches be crazy" I wouldn't have been surprised; that certainly seemed to be his approach to dealing with the victim's mother).

Right? That bugged me so much. She's a grieving woman who's lost her daughter and granddaughter, for god's sakes. She just wants answers. If that makes her "crazy", then I guess every family member who pursues a loved one's death like this is crazy, then. 

Yeah, His attitude about the whole case was appalling. As was his inability to remember certain things about it. I mean, this isn't exactly a typical case-I can't imagine it's often you find a woman and her baby dead near a railroad track. I would think any detectives investigating such a scene would have a little sharper memory regarding it as a result.

(And the fact that the original investigators got the wrong train in question. These guys are supposed to be professionals, how the hell do they bungle something that badly.)

As for Aaron, at the very least, he's a flat out asshole, but yeeeeeah, I have absolutely zero problem believing he's guilty. Innocent people do NOT taunt the family by leaving disturbing items at the memorial site. That video. That's beyond cold. And then his suggestion with the fetus for the funeral. WTF?

My mom also pointed out how odd it was that his reaction to his wife being afraid to go into their house was, "Okay, I'll go take a shower and then we'll go somewhere." Really? You're just going to leave your clearly frightened wife out there with her baby while you go take a shower? You're not going to either offer to check the house to make sure all's okay, or offer to take them somewhere right then and there, or something of that sort instead? Okay, then. 

It also really rubbed me the wrong way when he immediately tried to blame her supposed paranoia on postpartum psychosis. It'd be one thing, even, if he'd said, "I know my wife has been getting treatment for this", or "Her doctor had mentioned she'd been struggling with that". At least there he'd have a professional's opinion to back up that theory. But he didn't. He just threw it out there as his own random theory, as though he were a doctor and could automatically assume that must be the issue here. It reminded me of the guys who always brush off a woman's bad mood as "LOL, she must be on her period again". 

Yeah. I hope this new band of investigators can get all the evidence needed to nail this creep once and for all. And I hope the mom can finally get the answers she needs, and the peace she deserves. The bit about how she can still hear trains go by that area all these years later...so hauntingly sad. 

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The original "investigator" (and I use that term loosely) just accepted the husband's claim that his wife had post partum psychosis - no follow up with family, friends or her physician.  Little to no forensics.  As far as I can tell, almost no investigation was done, and not a single of the dozens of emails the mother sent to him was ever even acknowledged, much less answered.  He was a toad.  A fat lazy warty toad squatting on the muddy banks of a scummy pond.

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This came across as either bad or lazy police work. There were so many oddities that should have been investigated.

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7 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Yeah, His attitude about the whole case was appalling. As was his inability to remember certain things about it. I mean, this isn't exactly a typical case-I can't imagine it's often you find a woman and her baby dead near a railroad track. I would think any detectives investigating such a scene would have a little sharper memory regarding it as a result.

Oh, he made me so mad! 🤬

Dude, you know you’re sitting down for an interview w/48 Hours!  Peter didn’t just show up at your door. This was scheduled. So maybe review a file or 2. Find your little police notebook and skim through. Refresh your mem!  You looked stupid on tv. 

And another vote for the husband did it. I wonder if he has a new girl or wife. They said he still lived w/his parents correct?  Hmm...wonder if they are covering for him. 

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The fact that he wasn't asked about a cast on his hand/arm is amazing. That's police interogation 101

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14 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

And another vote for the husband did it. I wonder if he has a new girl or wife. They said he still lived w/his parents correct?  Hmm...wonder if they are covering for him. 

I didn’t get the feeling there was another woman.  What I did think was that this man was severely emotionally unstable.  All his talk about weird conspiracies, video taping scenes in the home to suggest his wife and child were still around, placing maimed dolls at the graveside and most of all requesting that the unborn child be removed and placed in the casket definitely indicated serious emotional problems.  He probably lost it when she was planning on leaving, since an affair was never mentioned nor a significant insurance policy to my recollection. 

Plenty has been said about the dumbass detective, so I’ll just agree that he was a bumbling idiot. 

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1 hour ago, Fable said:

I didn’t get the feeling there was another woman.  What I did think was that this man was severely emotionally unstable.  All his talk about weird conspiracies, video taping scenes in the home to suggest his wife and child were still around, placing maimed dolls at the graveside and most of all requesting that the unborn child be removed and placed in the casket definitely indicated serious emotional problems.  He probably lost it when she was planning on leaving, since an affair was never mentioned nor a significant insurance policy to my recollection. 

Plenty has been said about the dumbass detective, so I’ll just agree that he was a bumbling idiot. 

Oh I meant does he currently have a girlfriend/wife. Sometimes Dateline/48 Hours/20/20 bring out a current paramour who claims they’re not guilty. Sometimes it’s an ex, who says they could be guilty. So I was just wondering what his current or recent status was. 

I agree w/you about an affair or life insurance. I think this was a ‘you can’t leave me’ situation. Although the detective probably never investigated any of that, so 🤷🏻‍♀️.

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Also, the one thing I was getting confused by was the mother. Her hair color kept changing. I wasn't even sure it was the same woman. Dark hair, blonde hair, dark hair and then back. I wasn't really sure which was current. The whole thing was pretty crazy. The earlier detective was basically..............whatever.

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I can't add much to this discussion rather than going back to my old theory of Occam's Razor.   That cop they interviewed from the original investigation had to be one of the laziest, most incompetent, lack of give a shit cops that I've ever seen on one of these true crime shows.   How in the hell this guy kept his job is beyond me.     So you just take the husband's word that his pregnant wife is suicidal without checking it out with a doctor or anybody else who knew her?   My take on this is that the husband was probably angry that she was preggers again so soon after having the other child and that he didn't want any more responsibility.   She may have been looking to leave because he had been acting like an asshole and she had it.  She was apparently a stay at home wife and he probably would have had to cough up child support and some kind of alimony if she divorced him.   He killed her either at the house or pushed her into the train and now he is free and clear.  No wife, no kids.  And yet again, it seems like he has a family that will stick by him no matter what.   I hope these new detectives can nail the bastard's ass to the wall.   

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8 hours ago, Fable said:

I didn’t get the feeling there was another woman.  What I did think was that this man was severely emotionally unstable. 

If her mother and the PI are correct that the notes she wrote that convinced the cop that she was crazy were actually her writing down things that her husband was searching on the computer - e.g. "Can a woman be the anti-Christ?" - then, yeah, I'm thinking it's possible that there's some mental health issues there.

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Did anyone watch the latest episode about the American English teacher murdered in Seoul?  I can't believe the accused murderer actually let them in to talk with her in her office.  And what was up with the other woman who was in disguise?  Something was really off with her, especially when she admitted the judge was bribed to let her out of prison after only 6 months - WTH???

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It was a strange episode.  I actually came away thinking the prime suspect should be Sandra Ames, the weirdo in disguise who actually admitted to being in the room and tampering with evidence (and did she admit to cutting poor Carolyn's throat or say she had a dream that she slashed her throat?).  That she almost immediately pointed the finger at Kathryn Patrick and today laughs about bribing a judge to get out of prison earlier than her already ridiculously short sentence deepened my suspicion.

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It's funny, last week a friend and i were talking about things we'd do different if we could go back to our post college years.  We both said we'd love to travel the world and teach English overseas.  After watching this episode, maybe not a good idea.

I don't know if it was obvious or if the show pushed the Kathryn Patrick as killer very early on.  I picked up on it when the one lady kept saying Kathy asked about, Kathy was really worried, Kathy went right to the bedroom, Kathy, Kathy, Kathy.  My first thought was oh Kathy killed her and now wants them all to "discover" the body together.

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On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 8:31 PM, Kitty Redstone said:

It was a strange episode.  I actually came away thinking the prime suspect should be Sandra Ames, the weirdo in disguise who actually admitted to being in the room and tampering with evidence (and did she admit to cutting poor Carolyn's throat or say she had a dream that she slashed her throat?).  That she almost immediately pointed the finger at Kathryn Patrick and today laughs about bribing a judge to get out of prison earlier than her already ridiculously short sentence deepened my suspicion.

I agree.  She was really off - I think she had admitted to cutting her throat, which certainly should get her more than one year sentence even if that was all she did.  I am convinced she was more involved, perhaps even more so than Kathy.  There were a lot of things left out I think...

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23 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

It's funny, last week a friend and i were talking about things we'd do different if we could go back to our post college years.  We both said we'd love to travel the world and teach English overseas.  After watching this episode, maybe not a good idea.

I don't know if it was obvious or if the show pushed the Kathryn Patrick as killer very early on.  I picked up on it when the one lady kept saying Kathy asked about, Kathy was really worried, Kathy went right to the bedroom, Kathy, Kathy, Kathy.  My first thought was oh Kathy killed her and now wants them all to "discover" the body together.

Yes - they were really pushing Kathy as the murderer.  I  believe Sandra (the strange woman in disguise) was way more involved!

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Anyone see last night’s Austin case?  Thank heaven for night vision!  The walk comparison was spooky.

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1 hour ago, nora1992 said:

Anyone see last night’s Austin case?  Thank heaven for night vision!  The walk comparison was spooky.

Yes!  Oh, and the guy whose confession we saw?  Creepy as fuck.  Somehow reminded me of Rodney Alcala (but maybe it was just the hair).

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Regarding the episode "Karrie's Choice", when they showed that the father was threatening to jump from the 5th floor of the parking garage, my thought was LET HIM!  They basically knew he was the murderer so save the taxpayers the cost of a trial and feeding him - let the creep go splat.  I was also not sold on the brainwashing aspect - Karrie was able to pick one parent to live and the other to die.  I didn't hear anything bad about Michelle, other than that issue with the car backing up and that she was getting money from Lloyd and he was crying poverty.  That's so petty.

I think that the sentence for Karrie was too lenient - she got off too easy IMO.  I also find it hard to believe that the younger sister was oblivious to everything that happened in the house that night and didn't realize that the dad was in the car on the trip back to Rochester.  Makes me go hmmm.

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2 hours ago, patty1h said:

Regarding the episode "Karrie's Choice", when they showed that the father was threatening to jump from the 5th floor of the parking garage, my thought was LET HIM! 

No kidding; call that mofo's bluff.  Although I doubt that someone that narcissistic ever had any actual intention of killing himself.

I wish the show had done a better job at explaining what parental alienation is.  Having worked in family law for many years I've seen a few cases of parental alienation (not to anywhere near the extent demonstrated here) and it's so much more than just one parent speaking "badly" about the other.  It's an intense form of abuse/manipulation in which one parent isolates the child (or children) from the other parent, making the child dependent on the abusive parent (because that parent is now all they have, the other one having become persona non grata) and so enmeshed with the abuser's point of view that keeping the abusive parent happy becomes the most important thing to them.

That doesn't excuse what Karrie did.  She absolutely should be punished for her role in her mother's murder, but I think her grandmother is right that there's still a chance for her once she has some intensive therapy and now that she's out of her father's clutches.

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I've seen this crime before, on some other crime show.

They call it "parental alienation"; I call it "grooming".  Much like a pedophile, the parent uses similar tactics to bond with the child.  Somehow, "Daddy's girls" seem to be most susceptible to these machinations.

And somehow, these "Daddy's girls" turn out to be quite nasty in their own right.

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On 3/23/2019 at 8:12 PM, patty1h said:

I also find it hard to believe that the younger sister was oblivious to everything that happened in the house that night and didn't realize that the dad was in the car on the trip back to Rochester.  Makes me go hmmm.

Yeah, that was a tough one for me to swallow as well.  So the younger daughter wakes up because her mom is upstairs screaming.  Kerrie tells her "hey, let's go hang out in my car with the tailgate open".  Then there's a thunk as the father climbs in to the back, they close the tailgate, and they're off.  If my parent was screaming in my house, I'd want to know what was going on; I wouldn't just accept it and go for a 100 mile ride with my sister on an unplanned vay-cay.    I can buy that the father hid in the trunk, but no way the younger daughter wouldn't have wanted an explanation as to what was going on and why her dad was there.

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I know it’s a repeat, but shows like this really love to drop celebrity names to add cache whenever possible like in the “apartment 4c” episode. Marilyn Monroe, Michael Jackson, Freddie Mercury.  We get it, wealthy people live there, geez!

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That “assisted suicide” case was heartbreaking. That POS recorded that girl as she strangled to death. That is utter depravity. 

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6 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

That “assisted suicide” case was heartbreaking. That POS recorded that girl as she strangled to death. That is utter depravity. 

If that turkey hunter hadn't come along, who knows what that creepy little POS might have done to her body.

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12 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

That “assisted suicide” case was heartbreaking. That POS recorded that girl as she strangled to death. That is utter depravity. 

Such a sad episode.  Kids like him make me lean on the nature side of nuture vs nature.  The stuff he wrote in those letters??  wtf??  And the text message asking her if he could mutilate her body after she died?  What in the holy fuck?  I also think his lawyers used a lot of restraint and didn't say what they really wanted to say about him.  

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Well, I'm glad he wouldn't shut up as that helped put him in jail. Please tell me he is not getting out in five years cuz he is clearly a sociopath who will harm more people. 

All the friends knew that guy was not good for her and that she was becoming more and more depressed by hanging out with him. It's a shame none of them felt they could (or should) tell their own parent or a teacher about such concerns.

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In The Case Against Enrico Forti, I'm inclined not to believe him.  Granted, he seemed sincere, but some people are better are at fooling people than others but it seems almost obvious that he was trying to swindle Tony Pike...I mean 1.6 million for a luxury resort/hotel seems like a pittance when one can imagine that place was making money hand over fist.  There are people in affluent areas that are selling homes for far more than that.  However, my biggest problem is the fact that he lied about picking up Dale from the airport.  It's one thing to lie to your wife (which really made no sense either way) but lying to the police is just opening a can of worms.  Either clam up and get a lawyer or tell the truth,  The last red flag was his phone pinging in a different direction than he said he was going, although I am not sure how much credibility cell phone data was given in 1997.  

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I was on the fence about Enrico Forti until I saw the sketch of the person in the car at The Rusty Pelican based on the description he gave police; it looked just like him! Not to say that he did or didn't get a fair trial, but I think he is guilty. 

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