Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

HAH! I already saw it on ION last week! I just marathoned watched about 25 episodes this weekend. With my parents visiting, I didn't have a chance to watch them

I hope you had a great visit with your parents. ION seems to be zipping right through the episodes, too. Count me in as one that gets a kick out of Goren being stymied about the woman's pocketbook and the "girl thing". Hee.

I did like "Sound Bodies" in S3. The scene with Goren getting hit and the deadpan "Ouch!" always gets me. And I like that Connie was revisited in S5 in "Wee Small Hours". As I said before, CI was good about revisiting past stories and characters.

16 hours ago, catlover79 said:

She also played the music student struggling to play clarinet in Mr. Holland's Opus.

Now that one, I never knew!

[catlover79]

5 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Now that one, I never knew!

[WendyCR72]

Wow. I had forgotten that movie came out years ago. Alicia Witt was a baby there.

[Sigmagirl]

4 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I hope you had a great visit with your parents. ION seems to be zipping right through the episodes, too. Count me in as one that gets a kick out of Goren being stymied about the woman's pocketbook and the "girl thing". Hee.

I did like "Sound Bodies" in S3. The scene with Goren getting hit and the deadpan "Ouch!" always gets me. And I like that Connie was revisited in S5 in "Wee Small Hours". As I said before, CI was good about revisiting past stories and characters.

Now that one, I never knew!

I loved the purse thing too. I would have liked to have seen it go on to see Goren getting schooled. 1, no woman would put her expensive purse on a bathroom floor if she could hang it on a hook, and 2, just because Goren could reach over the top of the door and take it off the hook doesn’t mean anybody else could, especially almost any woman. Sometimes he’s just obtuse, which is when he’s funniest.

[WendyCR72]

4 hours ago, Sigmagirl said:

just because Goren could reach over the top of the door and take it off the hook doesn’t mean anybody else could, especially almost any woman. Sometimes he’s just obtuse, which is when he’s funniest.

Yeah, it was sort of reassuring to know that even genius-level minds like Bobby's could still have a dash of cluelessness. It made him human.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I loved the snark and joking between Alex, Deakins and Bobby in "Unrequited" which was the return of Alex full time. Bobby's happy(?) dance when they were questioning Marian, right after she and her husband Daniel (Joel Fabiani!!!!!) left to the party.

Or Alex's snark about how she went to the First Responders' charity with a date because she was pregnant, not dead. And was she supposed to stay home and knit? Or something like that.

Or her line about being happy to be back when she thought Bobby was going to try to defuse some bomb, but it turned out to be something else in "Pas de Deux." 

Speaking of which, just how STUPID was Margie? She knew Donny for all of what? a week? two weeks? And she Just KNEW the cops were lying about him. I don't care if she was depressed.

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Speaking of which, just how STUPID was Margie? She knew Donny for all of what? a week? two weeks? And she Just KNEW the cops were lying about him. I don't care if she was depressed.

And Bobby trying to butter her up, calling her special. I'm like...no. Stupid? Yes. Naive? Definitely. And this person is supposedly a freaking chemistry teacher?! I pity her students.

But I loved everything else you listed. Alex's date when she was pregnant was named Terry. That was the name of Erbe's then-hubby, so nice in-joke! And Bobby's little happy dance was awesome in "Unrequited".

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

And Bobby trying to butter her up, calling her special. I'm like...no. Stupid? Yes. Naive? Definitely. And this person is supposedly a freaking chemistry teacher?! I pity her students.

And her husband and kids. How they could spend the rest of their lives with that sad-sack loser twat after she was ready to ditch them for a serial killer she'd known for two weeks is beyond me.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

And her husband and kids. How they could spend the rest of their lives with that sad-sack loser twat after she was ready to ditch them for a serial killer she'd known for two weeks is beyond me.

Agreed, but to be fair, the show seemed to try to set up marital discord - at least on her end, referencing her feeling bored, numb, etc. But that is what hobbies and marriage counseling is for. Not running off with a strange serial killer.

I will say the late Charles Rocket did well in the role. I liked how Bobby pulled Donnie/Johnnie (never could quite discern his name!) to him as if to dance. Typical Goren!  🙂

Makes me kind of sad to know Rocket would be gone only a couple years after this episode. (Same deal for Chris Penn after his guest appearance in "Death Roe" in S4, too.)

[shapeshifter]

14 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Speaking of which, just how STUPID was Margie? She knew Donny for all of what? a week? two weeks? And she Just KNEW the cops were lying about him. I don't care if she was depressed.

Margie was vulnerable which made her a target for Donny's well-honed manipulative shtick. 
Plus, her devoted hubby was a dweeb, which Donny was debonair.
What bothered me was the reveal that Donny had stage 4 cancer. Been there, had that, and he would have been more gaunt, haggard, and tired. 

[Spartan Girl]

13 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Agreed, but to be fair, the show seemed to try to set up marital discord - at least on her end, referencing her feeling bored, numb, etc. But that is what hobbies and marriage counseling is for. Not running off with a strange serial killer.

This.  And she didn't even have the decency to leave her husband a dear john note, then when Goren confronts her about the fact that she was ditching her family with Donny, she's got the nerve to say "That's between me and my husband."  Well, it would have been nice to fill him in on it too.  Stupid twat.

[Xeliou66]

I saw Grow today, the Nicole Wallace storyline irritates me everytime I watch it. It was beyond ridiculous that Nicole was granted bail despite being a fugitive wanted for a murder charge and being a massive flight risk. How laughable. At the very least, why didn’t she have a monitor on her? 

The rest of the story was okay, and I liked how Logan was in the episode, it was nice to have him on in a minor role, I laughed at his line about Nicole “beauty, brains and a complete psycho: my dream girl”. But the Nicole stuff was just far fetched and ridiculous. 

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

This.  And she didn't even have the decency to leave her husband a dear john note, then when Goren confronts her about the fact that she was ditching her family with Donny, she's got the nerve to say "That's between me and my husband."  Well, it would have been nice to fill him in on it too.  Stupid twat.

I have to be honest, if Margie had blown up via bomb, I wouldn't have shed a tear. No thought to her kid(s), if not her hubby, then getting all huffy when confronting her about treating her hubby like crap. She was damned lucky that said hubby hired her a lawyer.

I would have let her rot. 

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

The rest of the story was okay, and I liked how Logan was in the episode, it was nice to have him on in a minor role, I laughed at his line about Nicole “beauty, brains and a complete psycho: my dream girl”. But the Nicole stuff was just far fetched and ridiculous. 

I get why the show kept bringing Nicole back: Goren's/Sherlock's own Moriarty in Nicole, but each return brought diminished returns. Frankly, I think the NBC poll in S4 with "Great Barrier" was a huge mistake, and she should have died in S4.

[GHScorpiosRule]

16 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Margie was vulnerable which made her a target for Donny's well-honed manipulative shtick. 
Plus, her devoted hubby was a dweeb, which Donny was debonair.

This may make me sound cold and heartless, but I don't care that she was "vulnerable." And actually, I don't think she was. She was described as "numb" and Bobby even said possibly depressed. But she still knew right from wrong. I don't feel sorry for her one single bit.

And I watched "The Saint" last night. I know, KNOW I should despise James Bennett, but...but...but it's ♥️💕Stephen Colbert!!!!💕♥️ And frankly with a mother like his, giving ALL HIS MONEY--$130,000! to the foundation? I don't blame him for trying to set them up for a fall. And for all his mother saying she hated clutter and hoarding, she sure had a box full of cards, that by her very statement, she should have trashed along with his toys and what nots.

I hate "Shrink-Wrapped" so much. I can't believe that two such narcissists ever spawned a child. And I'm trying to wrap my brain around the fact that the dad, played by Brent Spiner, also voiced Puck from the animated Gargoyles!

[shapeshifter]

19 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And I watched "The Saint" last night. I know, KNOW I should despise James Bennett, but...but...but it's ♥️💕Stephen Colbert!!!!💕♥️ And frankly with a mother like his, giving ALL HIS MONEY--$130,000! to the foundation? I don't blame him for trying to set them up for a fall. And for all his mother saying she hated clutter and hoarding, she sure had a box full of cards, that by her very statement, she should have trashed along with his toys and what nots

Heh, yeah. It was a young, baby-faced SC!
Plus he didn't murder anyone.
Aren't all the other perps fom that era violent?
  
  
  

25 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

17 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Margie was vulnerable which made her a target for Donny's well-honed manipulative shtick. 
Plus, her devoted hubby was a dweeb, which Donny was debonair.

This may make me sound cold and heartless, but I don't care that she was "vulnerable." And actually, I don't think she was. She was described as "numb" and Bobby even said possibly depressed. But she still knew right from wrong. I don't feel sorry for her one single bit.

Fair enough. Can we agree she was being stupid?

It often bugs me in crime shows when perps are both smart and stupid. I think IRL they're mostly just stupid.

[GHScorpiosRule]

12 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Heh, yeah. It was a young, baby-faced SC!
Plus he didn't murder anyone.

But he did. In the cold open--Louise, the grandmother who had Polio and died when she opened that box? James sent that package. But she wasn't supposed to die. So yeah, he's responsible for killing her.

12 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Fair enough. Can we agree she was being stupid?

Of course! That was the first thing I said about her.

[Sigmagirl]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I saw Grow today, the Nicole Wallace storyline irritates me everytime I watch it. It was beyond ridiculous that Nicole was granted bail despite being a fugitive wanted for a murder charge and being a massive flight risk. How laughable. At the very least, why didn’t she have a monitor on her? 

The rest of the story was okay, and I liked how Logan was in the episode, it was nice to have him on in a minor role, I laughed at his line about Nicole “beauty, brains and a complete psycho: my dream girl”. But the Nicole stuff was just far fetched and ridiculous. 

Also, that Nicole was supposed to be a library science student, and later she alludes to Bobby’s mother having been a librarian and therefore he should trust her because of all people, him not trusting a librarian. She was as much a librarian as she was an English literature professor. 

[WendyCR72]

53 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Heh, yeah. It was a young, baby-faced SC!
Plus he didn't murder anyone.

Well, didn't he send that bomb wrapped as a present to the social worker (who lied about getting a miracle as a teen because of her crush on a priest?). So he would still be responsible for murder. As an aside, that actress went on to play Wilson Fisk's mother (played by VDO) in Daredevil!

Funny how that came full circle.

[WendyCR72]

15 minutes ago, Sigmagirl said:

Also, that Nicole was supposed to be a library science student, and later she alludes to Bobby’s mother having been a librarian and therefore he should trust her because of all people, him not trusting a librarian. She was as much a librarian as she was an English literature professor. 

Maybe I am misremembering, but wasn't "Nicole Wallace" even another name she had stolen? It is what she became known by, but I wonder if that was really her name. I hated the character, but Olivia D'Abo did do a good job with her.

(Every time I think of the pundit Nicolle (two Ls!) Wallace, I think of L&O: CI!)

[shapeshifter]

10 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Maybe I am misremembering, but wasn't "Nicole Wallace" even another name she had stolen? It is what she became known by, but I wonder if that was really her name. I hated the character, but Olivia D'Abo did do a good job with her.

I don't know if "Nicole Wallace" was an alias or not, but I hated her character so much that I am still repelled every time Olivia D'Abo is on my screen. I guess that does mean she did it right.

[GHScorpiosRule]

20 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Well, didn't he send that bomb wrapped as a present to the social worker (who lied about getting a miracle as a teen because of her crush on a priest?). So he would still be responsible for murder. As an aside, that actress went on to play Wilson Fisk's mother (played by VDO) in Daredevil!

Funny how that came full circle.

She's not the only one. The actress who played Madam Gao, also appeared in the episode with Malcolm MacDowell, "Proud Flesh", She played the jewelry store manager who couldn't speak English, who told Bobby about the young Asian woman who came into the store to buy jewelry or something.

20 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Maybe I am misremembering, but wasn't "Nicole Wallace" even another name she had stolen? It is what she became known by, but I wonder if that was really her name. I hated the character, but Olivia D'Abo did do a good job with her.

(Every time I think of the pundit Nicolle (two Ls!) Wallace, I think of L&O: CI!)

I haven't re-watched all the Nicole Wallace episodes yet, but Olivia was Nicole, pretending to be Elizabeth Hitchens in "Anti-Thesis" and "Person of Interest" and was revealed to be Nicole after that fake Anthrax exposure.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

She's not the only one. The actress who played Madam Gao, also appeared in the episode with Malcolm MacDowell, "Proud Flesh", She played the jewelry store manager who couldn't speak English, who told Bobby about the young Asian woman who came into the store to buy jewelry or something.

Now her, I did not recognize! Cool! Thanks for the fill in.  🙂

[Xeliou66]

In the Wee Small Hours was on today, this is one of my favorite CI episodes. I really liked how they did a 2 parter and had both detective pairings working the case, they should’ve done that again. I also liked how Deakins and Carver both got very large roles in the case, it was cool to see Arthur Branch make a cameo as well to talk to Carver about the case, I wish that the DA had made a cameo in other episodes as well. CI didn’t go inside the courtroom much so I liked seeing that part again and having 2 hours allowed them to fully develop the story. It was a good case as well even if it was somewhat predictable, Judge Garrett and his whole family were despicable scum. I liked Eames’ “there they go, Ocean’s Two” line, and it was nice to see the detectives all working together and interacting, like I said above, I wish they had done that again. 

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

In the Wee Small Hours was on today, this is one of my favorite CI episodes. I really liked how they did a 2 parter and had both detective pairings working the case, they should’ve done that again. I also liked how Deakins and Carver both got very large roles in the case, it was cool to see Arthur Branch make a cameo as well to talk to Carver about the case, I wish that the DA had made a cameo in other episodes as well. CI didn’t go inside the courtroom much so I liked seeing that part again and having 2 hours allowed them to fully develop the story. It was a good case as well even if it was somewhat predictable, Judge Garrett and his whole family were despicable scum. I liked Eames’ “there they go, Ocean’s Two” line, and it was nice to see the detectives all working together and interacting, like I said above, I wish they had done that again. 

I like it, too. Waaaay back when it aired, though, it was not a two-parter, but just one two-hour episode. (If I recall, it was November Sweeps, so...) Said this before, but I liked how Goren and Eames resolved the whole letter issue. No yelling or talk of betrayal. Just acting like adults and understanding.

And as I have said, I liked the special opening credits.

I do wish that more Mothership character visits happened and/or the two teams - whoever they were - worked together again, although I guess, in a way, they did, during "Loyalty". Or at least three out of the four, since Stevens was too new to contribute much yet.

[Xeliou66]

40 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I like it, too. Waaaay back when it aired, though, it was not a two-parter, but just one two-hour episode. (If I recall, it was November Sweeps, so...) Said this before, but I liked how Goren and Eames resolved the whole letter issue. No yelling or talk of betrayal. Just acting like adults and understanding.

And as I have said, I liked the special opening credits.

I do wish that more Mothership character visits happened and/or the two teams - whoever they were - worked together again, although I guess, in a way, they did, during "Loyalty". Or at least three out of the four, since Stevens was too new to contribute much yet.

Yes I liked how Goren and Eames resolved the letter issue as well and that it didn’t turn into a soap opera. 

I wish that they had had Mothership characters appear more often, I really liked the crossovers/continuity between the franchises and I wish that they had done more of it, it would’ve been nice if Branch had appeared to talk with Carver about cases occasionally, he had several cameos on SVU to discuss cases, and I wish they had managed to bring McCoy on as well, I would’ve loved a McCoy/Carver scene. Some sort of crossover with SVU would’ve been nice as well, Goren and Munch together would’ve been awesome!! 

[WendyCR72]

8 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Some sort of crossover with SVU would’ve been nice as well, Goren and Munch together would’ve been awesome!! 

The quirk would be off the charts. But if there were a crossover with SVU, I think Fin would have made more sense since CI referenced Goren coming to Major Case from narcotics - and isn't that where Fin was before SVU? Maybe Goren and Fin knew each other and/or worked on a case together, etc.

[Xeliou66]

54 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

The quirk would be off the charts. But if there were a crossover with SVU, I think Fin would have made more sense since CI referenced Goren coming to Major Case from narcotics - and isn't that where Fin was before SVU? Maybe Goren and Fin knew each other and/or worked on a case together, etc.

Yeah that would’ve made sense. Fin and Munch both appearing on an episode, the way Briscoe/Green did in Poison, would’ve been awesome. It’s too bad SVU and CI never crossed over, well not until CI was off the air when Eames crossed over to SVU for 2 episodes. And I really wish Mothership characters had appeared more than a handful of times.

[WendyCR72]

I really hated Warren Leight undoing CI's ending just so Olivia could have a "kindred spirit" in Alex. Bobby fought tooth and nail to keep his job. But then we find out he quit?

Didn't buy it then, still don't. Bobby liked his career, even if he defied authority.

So I usually just disregard that SVU stint and the whole Alex and Olivia bonding over Bobby and Elliot. No.

The only thing I liked about that mess was Alex channeling Bobby during questioning.

Still, at least Chris Brancato gave this series a proper sendoff. Gotta say, I sort of shudder to think how, if Warren Leight is still EP when it ends, how he will usher SVU out. I mean, it has to end some century. LOL!

[wknt3]

18 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Some sort of crossover with SVU would’ve been nice as well, Goren and Munch together would’ve been awesome!! 

18 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

The quirk would be off the charts. But if there were a crossover with SVU, I think Fin would have made more sense since CI referenced Goren coming to Major Case from narcotics - and isn't that where Fin was before SVU? Maybe Goren and Fin knew each other and/or worked on a case together, etc.

Fin and Goren both worked in narcotics and both had an Army background so there is definitely some common ground there to add to the obvious parallels of the quirky-snarky partner chemistry. In retrospect it seems kind of odd they never took advantage of that.

17 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I really hated Warren Leight undoing CI's ending just so Olivia could have a "kindred spirit" in Alex. Bobby fought tooth and nail to keep his job. But then we find out he quit?

Didn't buy it then, still don't. Bobby liked his career, even if he defied authority.

So I usually just disregard that SVU stint and the whole Alex and Olivia bonding over Bobby and Elliot. No.

The only thing I liked about that mess was Alex channeling Bobby during questioning.

Still, at least Chris Brancato gave this series a proper sendoff. Gotta say, I sort of shudder to think how, if Warren Leight is still EP when it ends, how he will usher SVU out. I mean, it has to end some century. LOL!

Yeah I think we can kind of safely ignore that since it was part of the peiod where SVU seemed to be just ignoring the larger franchise continiuity just because they could and nobody cared. And they were also trashing everyone who wasn't there anymore to build up Benson. I say sweep it under the rug with the new DA and Stabler stifling Benson's growth and retcon away! As far as the finale of both shows is concerned it all depends on the mandate from above - CI was certainly well executed, but the marching orders were to make the fans happy with a proper sendoff and I think Leight is more then capable of pulling it off (although he would probably have worked in some unnecessary family drama.) And I don't think SVU's finale will be much different under Leight than any competent strong showrunner. Or any weak and incompetent one for that matter - it will be plotted by Mariska and Dick Wolf and only the execution will be up to the writers and showrunner.

Edited August 16, 2019 by wknt3

[Spartan Girl]

"Dramma Giocoso" is gonna be on. How awful was that bitch? Killing her own daughter not only just to snag a complete asshole, but also because she didn't think she'd take care of her when she went further into dementia. Considering what a terrible mother she was, I really wouldn't blame her!

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

"Dramma Giocoso" is gonna be on. How awful was that bitch? Killing her own daughter not only just to snag a complete asshole, but also because she didn't think she'd take care of her when she went further into dementia. Considering what a terrible mother she was, I really wouldn't blame her!

The relationship between "this bitch" (hee!) and her daughter, I wonder if it is another "chicken or the egg" scenario? Remember, the doctor at the hospital told Logan she had to be called again because she never showed two hours after her mom had been discharged. So did the mother end up resenting her because the daughter loved her music more than her mother or did Laura throw herself into her music above all else because her mother was so damned awful?

Could be either/or, but I lean toward option 2.  😉

"Vacancy" is on now and I still wish Emily Bergl's shrieky, whiny Alice was cab driver killer's victim and not Megan. God, is she ever annoying.

[WendyCR72]

11 hours ago, wknt3 said:

Fin and Goren both worked in narcotics and both had an Army background

I never knew about the Army background with Fin. (I don't pay as close attention to SVU as I do the Mothership and CI, for some reason.) Now it really makes me wish we had some Fin/Goren interaction, either in the present day or some flashbacks while in narcotics or something! Oh, well.

[Spartan Girl]

30 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

The relationship between "this bitch" (hee!) and her daughter, I wonder if it is another "chicken or the egg" scenario? Remember, the doctor at the hospital told Logan she had to be called again because she never showed two hours after her mom had been discharged. So did the mother end up resenting her because the daughter loved her music more than her mother or did Laura throw herself into her music above all else because her mother was so damned awful?

Could be either/or, but I lean toward option 2.  😉

Even if it was option 1 it's still no excuse. I mean, killing your own daughter because she's too busy to take care of you? The very definition of narcissism and entitlement.

[ML89]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Even if it was option 1 it's still no excuse. I mean, killing your own daughter because she's too busy to take care of you? The very definition of narcissism and entitlement.

Yeah, I wasn’t too sad when Conductor Dude backed right out - talk about reaping what you sowed. 

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Even if it was option 1 it's still no excuse. I mean, killing your own daughter because she's too busy to take care of you? The very definition of narcissism and entitlement.

Oh, no argument. Based on the beginning of the episode when Laura was asking her mother why she isn't supporting her, I got the feeling it was far from the first time. Mommie Dearest seemed like a narcissist.

[WendyCR72]

Oxygen went from S7 to S1 and the episodes in the middle of the night tomorrow include "The Pardoner's Tale". I can't stand the wife of the dude that ordered the hit on the reporter. "I can't care about that!" As Alex told her, if that is the case, she belongs in jail.

"The Good Doctor" is a good one. I liked seeing Carver actually having some meat in the courtroom and going after the arrogant SOB. But in real life? I doubt Kelmer would have been convicted.

"Poison" begins that three-hour block. Trudy was a cold bitch. Hard to believe J. Smith Cameron went from that in S1 to one of Mark Ford Brady's traumatized victims in S6. Ah, repeat actors, how you amuse me.

[Spartan Girl]

2 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Oxygen went from S7 to S1 and the episodes in the middle of the night tomorrow include "The Pardoner's Tale". I can't stand the wife of the dude that ordered the hit on the reporter. "I can't care about that!" As Alex told her, if that is the case, she belongs in jail.

For real. Most women would've left their husband the second they found out he'd been embezzling money rather than wait and raise the kids while he's living the good life in hiding at some Carribbean resort. So maybe it's not that much of a surprise that the twat "couldn't care" about him killing two people.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

For real. Most women would've left their husband the second they found out he'd been embezzling money rather than wait and raise the kids while he's living the good life in hiding at some Carribbean resort. So maybe it's not that much of a surprise that the twat "couldn't care" about him killing two people.

Kate Burton seemed to excel at playing at unlikable types. (I watched early Grey's Anatomy but quit long ago, and she played an ice queen there.)  But I really couldn't stand her character here. (Don't know if people here know or not, but her father was actor Richard Burton.)

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Oxygen went from S7 to S1 and the episodes in the middle of the night tomorrow include "The Pardoner's Tale". I can't stand the wife of the dude that ordered the hit on the reporter. "I can't care about that!" As Alex told her, if that is the case, she belongs in jail.

"The Good Doctor" is a good one. I liked seeing Carver actually having some meat in the courtroom and going after the arrogant SOB. But in real life? I doubt Kelmer would have been convicted.

"Poison" begins that three-hour block. Trudy was a cold bitch. Hard to believe J. Smith Cameron went from that in S1 to one of Mark Ford Brady's traumatized victims in S6. Ah, repeat actors, how you amuse me.

The Pardoner’s Tale is okay, but I always get confused about them introducing a fictional governor in that episode, when on the original L&O they had mentioned the real governor several times. Not good continuity. 

The Good Doctor is excellent, it was a very compelling plot to be so straightforward, interesting to watch the investigation unfold and I also really liked seeing Carver get some meaty courtroom scenes. Juries have convicted without a body and on circumstantial evidence before, so I bought that they would convict Kelmer. Deakins also got a larger role in that episode which I liked, I liked the debate between Goren and Eames about whether or not to tell the family it wasn’t Valerie’s body they found and Deakins siding with Goren, good scene. 

Poison was great as well, Trudy was an evil, ice cold bitch, and her mother was spineless and pathetic. And of course it was great to see Briscoe and Green appear to discuss the case with Goren and Eames, 4 great detectives together, that was awesome!! I loved Goren suggesting to Briscoe and Green to leak the details of the case to the media, and then Deakins getting pissed when it happened but Goren and Eames staying silent about who leaked it.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Xeliou66

[wknt3]

21 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

The Pardoner’s Tale is okay, but I always get confused about them introducing a fictional governor in that episode, when on the original L&O they had mentioned the real governor several times. Not good continuity. 

Yeah, but this is one of those areas where continuity has to take a back seat to the network and the show's lawyers. Given that they were depicting the governor's office in a rather negative light they couldn't actually use the name of a real life politician. And while as a NYS resident I firmly believe that they could get away it legally since truth is an absolute defense in a libel case, they were filming in NY and taking money from the city and state so that's pretty much a deal breaker. Given that in the L&Overse it seemed all the politicians were constantly resigning after getting implicated in scandals uncovered by murder investigations we can just assume that's what happened off screen and handwave it away without too much trouble. Not perfect continuity, but far from the worst mistake especially since the rule seemed to be that they used real names until they actually became part of the episode (except for cameos) so it fits in pretty well that way.

Edited August 22, 2019 by wknt3
ducking autocorrect...

[Xeliou66]

11 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

Yeah, but this is one of those areas where continuity has to take a back seat to the network and the show's lawyers. Given that they were depicting the governor's office in a rather negative light they couldn't actually use the name of a real life politician. And while as a NYS resident I firmly believe that they could get away it legally since truth is an absolute defense in a libel case, they were filming in NY and taking money from the city and state so that's pretty much a deal breaker. Given that in the L&Overse it seemed all the politicians were constantly resigning after getting implicated in scandals uncovered by murder investigations we can just assume that's what happened off screen and handwave it away without too much trouble. Not perfect continuity, but far from the worst mistake especially since the rule seemed to be that they used real names until they actually became part of the episode (except for cameos) so it fits in pretty well that way.

Oh I understand why they did it, I’m just saying it was poor continuity. The whole plot of The Pardoner’s Tale is somewhat complicated and it isn’t one of my favorite CI episodes anyway. I love The Good Doctor and Poison though.

[WendyCR72]

To be fair, politicians on CI seemed to be a curious mix of real and fake. Fake, being the aforementioned governor. Real, in that New York Senator Chuck Schumer appeared as himself in "Betrayed" in Season 7.

And I could be wrong, but didn't even the Mothership use a fake governor or gubernatorial candidate in an episode? (I know Rudy Giuliani appeared when he was Mayor and Joe Biden, when VP, did a cameo on SVU, as well.)

[wknt3]

10 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

To be fair, politicians on CI seemed to be a curious mix of real and fake. Fake, being the aforementioned governor. Real, in that New York Senator Chuck Schumer appeared as himself in "Betrayed" in Season 7.

And I could be wrong, but didn't even the Mothership use a fake governor or gubernatorial candidate in an episode? (I know Rudy Giuliani appeared when he was Mayor and Joe Biden, when VP, did a cameo on SVU, as well.)

More than one episode - Governor Shalvoy was a recurring character. Although how fake he was is a matter for debate (basically he was Elliot Spitzer with the serial number filed off and better hair). There was also a fake U.S. Senator in "Crashers" and more fake councilmen, state legislators, etc. than we have time to list, even if I could remember them all. As I said the rule seemed to be that used real politicians or their names if they were commenting on policy or to add a little verisimilitude and for cameo appearances and made them up if they were perps, victims. witnesses, or otherwise integral to the story.

[WendyCR72]

7 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

More than one episode - Governor Shalvoy was a recurring character. Although how fake he was is a matter for debate (basically he was Elliot Spitzer with the serial number filed off and better hair). There was also a fake U.S. Senator in "Crashers" and more fake councilmen, state legislators, etc. than we have time to list, even if I could remember them all. As I said the rule seemed to be that used real politicians or their names if they were commenting on policy or to add a little verisimilitude and for cameo appearances and made them up if they were perps, victims. witnesses, or otherwise integral to the story.

Or, to put it succinctly: When real politicians were seen, it was for good. Fake ones were all slimy criminals! (In all seriousness, though, I agree. And those fakes certainly staved off many a lawsuit, so...  Kind of hard to tell stories "ripped from the headlines" without them!)

[GHScorpiosRule]

The ONLY time I think they used real politicians, and that was on the Mothership, was in the first season --where Bloomberg held a press conference, praising how the cops and feds worked together to solve the murders. "The Troubles."

And of course Schumer, but I don't remember that episode from this show.

[WendyCR72]

10 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

The ONLY time I think they used real politicians, and that was on the Mothership, was in the first season --where Bloomberg held a press conference, praising how the cops and feds worked together to solve the murders. "The Troubles."

And of course Schumer, but I don't remember that episode from this show.

Schumer appeared in the very beginning of "Betrayed" introducing author Kathy Jarrow at some police shindig, before she said she couldn't find her much-younger husband, only to have Ross lose all objectivity and scream at Goren and Eames for the rest of the episode.

[wknt3]

On 8/23/2019 at 8:58 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

The ONLY time I think they used real politicians, and that was on the Mothership, was in the first season --where Bloomberg held a press conference, praising how the cops and feds worked together to solve the murders. "The Troubles."

And of course Schumer, but I don't remember that episode from this show.

At the time of "The Troubles" Guiliani was mayor and I don't believe there was any mayoral press conference real or fictional. Rudy did appear in "Endurance" for Lewin's first day as DA. He appointed her based on her experience prosecuting mob cases for him when he US Attorney. Bloomberg appeared a couple of times at press conferences with Branch, twice in "Nowhere Man", and again in "Paradigm". And as has been mentioned Joe Biden was on SVU although that is probably best forgotten along with much of the second half of that series' run.
 

On 8/23/2019 at 7:15 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Schumer appeared in the very beginning of "Betrayed" introducing author Kathy Jarrow at some police shindig, before she said she couldn't find her much-younger husband, only to have Ross lose all objectivity and scream at Goren and Eames for the rest of the episode.

Not sure Ross acting like an ass is notable enough to be worth mentioning or to help viewers recall the episode in question...

Edited August 25, 2019 by wknt3

[WendyCR72]

"Contract" was the last CI episode today before the Mothership took over on WE. The whole deal with the movie and the actor dying in Louisiana and the guy who wrote it being in witness protection was just so damned convoluted.

But Jeannie. It was said at the end she had just turned 17. As one in the same boat, she cannot help how she looks or sounds, but the actress always made me think she was around 14 or 15, so the very end with Freeburg admitting to statutory rape was extra eeewww. Someone here said they think this could be based on Harvey Weinstein? I can see that.

Speaking of "statutory" rape here, why not rape, period? It was pretty clear that Jeannie did not want to have sex with Freeburg. She even said her brother knew "something terrible" had happened when he saw her face.

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

"Contract" was the last CI episode today before the Mothership took over on WE. The whole deal with the movie and the actor dying in Louisiana and the guy who wrote it being in witness protection was just so damned convoluted.

But Jeannie. It was said at the end she had just turned 17. As one in the same boat, she cannot help how she looks or sounds, but the actress always made me think she was around 14 or 15, so the very end with Freeburg admitting to statutory rape was extra eeewww. Someone here said they think this could be based on Harvey Weinstein? I can see that.

Speaking of "statutory" rape here, why not rape, period? It was pretty clear that Jeannie did not want to have sex with Freeburg. She even said her brother knew "something terrible" had happened when he saw her face.

Contract was a convoluted, confusing mess. I would have to rewatch it to see what I thought about the whole rape vs statutory rape thing, but yeah I thought it was rape as well. That episode was just horribly confusing though, it could’ve been interesting if executed well but instead it was a jumbled disaster.

[WendyCR72]

35 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Contract was a convoluted, confusing mess. I would have to rewatch it to see what I thought about the whole rape vs statutory rape thing, but yeah I thought it was rape as well. That episode was just horribly confusing though, it could’ve been interesting if executed well but instead it was a jumbled disaster.

My theory is, the witness protection stuff was just a way for USA to do their little crossover with Mary McCormack's character from In Plain Sight. (She was the one that handled witness protection for the mobster lover of Freeburg's wife, "Frank Chess", that wrote the movie script, and who was in Ross' office giving Ross and Logan the lowdown. I never watched the show but knew her/the character through the then millions of commercials that USA used to run for it.)