Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[Xeliou66]

17 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

"Crazy" has much in common with "World's Fair" from Season 6 in that everyone but the victims were completely awful assholes. Sorry to be crude, but that is the best description I can muster for both episodes.

From Julie to Sarah to Meena's dick brother to her boyfriend's racist mother, when CI showed the unlikable side of human nature, it sure didn't shy away...

Yeah those episodes had some horrible people - in World’s Fair the 2 victims were sympathetic but no one else was and in Crazy only the kids were sympathetic. This wasn’t uncommon in CI - dysfunctional and screwed up families were something CI excelled at. 

Edited May 20, 2023 by Xeliou66

[WendyCR72]

I know I have posted various photos and/or videos in this thread. I know I posted a video with the actor playing poor dead Joseph Sblotnick, the "Popeye" cadaver in...duh, "Cadaver" from S10.

Can't remember if I already posted this video or not, though. (Don't want to scroll back on pages galore!) So, if I did, my apologies in advance, and here it is again for posterity:

Kathryn Erbe gives a morgue tour with said cadaver for the "Cadaver" episode:

On a related note, I wish the later DVD sets had more extras, etc.

[WendyCR72]

I found this old clip on YT with VDO giving some interview where he recounts his time as a bouncer before he became famous!

 

[peacheslatour]

With three Law & Order shows currently on the airwaves, Vincent D'Onofrio says his character could make a comeback. He originally starred as the beloved Detective Robert Goren for 10 seasons of Law & Order: Criminal Intent. While speaking on a panel at ICCCon, D'Onofrio was asked if there's a chance of seeing Goren in the franchise again. It's something he's not closed to, but says the final decision is not his to make.

"That's a question for Dick Wolf," D'Onofrio said, per our sister site ComicBook.com. "But c'mon, what am I, an idiot? It's a great part. He's a great—look, Dick, seven, eight, nine episodes would be great." Audience members showed their excitement with applause.

 

From PopCulture.Com

[Xeliou66]

I just watched Conscience, this is an interesting episode - complex case with how they realized the guy put his wife in a vegetative state, good investigation and a memorable ending with how they staged the interview to manipulate the killer into confessing. Also interesting how Goren/Eames briefly went to Louisiana to interview the lawyer. I like this episode a lot. 

[WendyCR72]

8 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

With three Law & Order shows currently on the airwaves, Vincent D'Onofrio says his character could make a comeback. He originally starred as the beloved Detective Robert Goren for 10 seasons of Law & Order: Criminal Intent. While speaking on a panel at ICCCon, D'Onofrio was asked if there's a chance of seeing Goren in the franchise again. It's something he's not closed to, but says the final decision is not his to make.

"That's a question for Dick Wolf," D'Onofrio said, per our sister site ComicBook.com. "But c'mon, what am I, an idiot? It's a great part. He's a great—look, Dick, seven, eight, nine episodes would be great." Audience members showed their excitement with applause.

 

From PopCulture.Com

With this ongoing strike, I don't see it. Sigh. If it ever did happen? All for it, but for me, Eames would have to be involved, too.

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I just watched Conscience, this is an interesting episode - complex case with how they realized the guy put his wife in a vegetative state, good investigation and a memorable ending with how they staged the interview to manipulate the killer into confessing. Also interesting how Goren/Eames briefly went to Louisiana to interview the lawyer. I like this episode a lot. 

One thing I never understood about that episode...it was made clear, before her health crisis, that Lorraine had embezzled from her job. (The very money hubby was trying to get at!)

I know lip service was made about it to G/E by the person they saw in Louisiana, but you'd think they would have prosecuted her before this health incident would have taken place...

[Xeliou66]

44 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

One thing I never understood about that episode...it was made clear, before her health crisis, that Lorraine had embezzled from her job. (The very money hubby was trying to get at!)

I know lip service was made about it to G/E by the person they saw in Louisiana, but you'd think they would have prosecuted her before this health incident would have taken place...

I don’t know if anyone knew Lorraine had embezzled other than her lawyer in Louisiana, and he couldn’t go to the police because of attorney-client privilege. Mark found out and that’s why she changed the password to the account before he put her in the vegetative state. I don’t think anyone else knew about the money Lorraine had embezzled. 
It was a good episode, I liked the investigation into both the doctor’s murder and Lorraine’s medical stuff, and it was interesting how Mark did it all for nothing - he couldn’t even get to her money. 

[WendyCR72]

I recall it being said Lorraine had willed that money to her son. Since her lawyer was seemingly the only one that knew the specifics, I wonder if the son would inherit those ill-gotten gains free and clear, i.e. legally?

[Xeliou66]

48 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I recall it being said Lorraine had willed that money to her son. Since her lawyer was seemingly the only one that knew the specifics, I wonder if the son would inherit those ill-gotten gains free and clear, i.e. legally?

I don’t know - I have a feeling the state would seize the money as a result of the investigation into the case, since Lorraine got it illegally. It’s a very interesting episode.

[WendyCR72]

46 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I don’t know - I have a feeling the state would seize the money as a result of the investigation into the case, since Lorraine got it illegally. It’s a very interesting episode.

I did like the end with G/E, as Goren just looks at Lorraine with her parents and son around her, saying how he just wonders...

An episode like that, it sort of does make one wonder what the intellectual capacity for someone like Lorraine actually entails.

[WendyCR72]

TV Line - probably needing material to talk about because of the Writers' Strike - has picked up the recent talk about Vincent D'Onofrio wanting a L&O: Criminal Intent revisit.

ETA: With the embedded tweets in the article, I was surprised to see that Kathryn Erbe has a Twitter account. I obviously know VDO does.

It's nice that both have interest, and I like that Norberto Barba, one of their former directors, also weighed in.

(Hey, maybe Norberto Barba is how Barba on SVU got his last name!)

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

TV Line - probably needing material to talk about because of the Writers' Strike - has picked up the recent talk about Vincent D'Onofrio wanting a L&O: Criminal Intent revisit.

ETA: With the embedded tweets in the article, I was surprised to see that Kathryn Erbe has a Twitter account. I obviously know VDO does.

It's nice that both have interest, and I like that Norberto Barba, one of their former directors, also weighed in.

(Hey, maybe Norberto Barba is how Barba on SVU got his last name!)

I bet it is. They do that a lot on TV shows. You know that guy who called television a vast wasteland, Newton Minow? The SS Minnow on Gilligan's Island was named that as an inside joke about him.

Edited June 1, 2023 by peacheslatour

[WendyCR72]

1 minute ago, peacheslatour said:

I bet it is. They do that a lot on TV shows. You know that guy who called television a vast wasteland, Newton Minow? The SS Minnow on Gilligan's Island was named that as an inside joke about him.

Come to think of it, if I recall, one of the crew members on CI in the ending credits had the last name of Gyson.

So, I guess we know where Dr. Paula Gyson in S10 got her name from, too! Kind of a cool way to get some names.

[Xeliou66]

I have mixed feelings about a potential CI revival - it would be great to see Goren and Eames again, but only if they are written well and not thrown under the bus for cheap drama the way SVU does to its characters now. I think it could be done well, but please keep the current SVU writers far, far away from the show. But if they stuck to what made the show great - Goren/Eames solving complex cases, then it would be nice to have a few more episodes of that, CI is all too often forgotten about when discussing L&O, and so it would be nice if it got some of the glory again. I enjoy the Mothership revival more than most so I think they could pull off a decent CI revival. 

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I have mixed feelings about a potential CI revival - it would be great to see Goren and Eames again, but only if they are written well and not thrown under the bus for cheap drama the way SVU does to its characters now. I think it could be done well, but please keep the current SVU writers far, far away from the show. But if they stuck to what made the show great - Goren/Eames solving complex cases, then it would be nice to have a few more episodes of that, CI is all too often forgotten about when discussing L&O, and so it would be nice if it got some of the glory again. I enjoy the Mothership revival more than most so I think they could pull off a decent CI revival. 

Like you, I am of two minds. For me, the series ended quite well and on a hopeful note. (I know it was undone with SVU, but as it seemed like the S9 exit was ignored when S10 came to be, I could see the same happening as far as Eames on SVU goes.)

I'd hate to see that undone, but - if good writing can happen - I would also love to see a little more of them again.

I guess it all depends on the Writers' Strike and whether Dick Wolf/NBC have any interest.

On a practical note, as OC has a smaller-sized season, maybe Criminal Intent could fill the other half of said season.

[Xeliou66]

27 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Like you, I am of two minds. For me, the series ended quite well and on a hopeful note. (I know it was undone with SVU, but as it seemed like the S9 exit was ignored when S10 came to be, I could see the same happening as far as Eames on SVU goes.)

I'd hate to see that undone, but - if good writing can happen - I would also love to see a little more of them again.

I guess it all depends on the Writers' Strike and whether Dick Wolf/NBC have any interest.

On a practical note, as OC has a smaller-sized season, maybe Criminal Intent could fill the other half of said season.

Yeah the show ended on a real high note, and the franchise isn’t great with continuity now (remember how SVU crapped on the DA’s office for 2-3 seasons and then when the Mothership came back and had Jack as DA there was no explanation, just SVU ending the trashing) so I could see them ignoring or writing around the SVU stuff if CI came back. I think the writing could be good and it would be nice for CI to be remembered again, it’s so often forgotten about. 

[wknt3]

6 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I have mixed feelings about a potential CI revival - it would be great to see Goren and Eames again, but only if they are written well and not thrown under the bus for cheap drama the way SVU does to its characters now. I think it could be done well, but please keep the current SVU writers far, far away from the show. But if they stuck to what made the show great - Goren/Eames solving complex cases, then it would be nice to have a few more episodes of that, CI is all too often forgotten about when discussing L&O, and so it would be nice if it got some of the glory again. I enjoy the Mothership revival more than most so I think they could pull off a decent CI revival. 

Not just SVU writers, but most of the current franchise writing staff. And the executives too (since the show suffered a lot from the suits tinkering with it even in the "good old days"). If it was brought back I would love to see it as a "prestige" project for Peacock with Rene Balcer and a small group of handpicked writers doing a shorter season a la Poker Face. Beyond being able to maintain the writing it would also be easier to change things up a bit and have Goren and Eames as the lead characters in new positions working with Major Case instead of as detectives. Not trying to ignore all continuity and the passage of time or making Eames Captain, but having her in the field all the time like some other franchise installments we could mention. You could still air the new shows in at least some of the various cable/syndication packages eventually to make it financially viable, since you know Dick Wolf isn't going to wait to get paid, but you wouldn't need it to try to be anything other than what it was intended to be or try to make it more "modern" or whatever. The only concession they would need to make is to make sure there is a broadcast length edit possible, but given what we talked about with just a small group of top notch experienced writers I don't see it being an issue.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

Law & Order Criminal Intent Toronto greenlit.

Edited June 5, 2023 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Xeliou66]

33 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Law & Order Criminal Intent Toronto greenlit.

Fascinating - another international spinoff. I wonder if they will have original plots or if they’ll just redo old plots the way L&O: UK did? 
I’m still wondering if there’s any plan to bring back CI here in America with Goren/Eames - it seems like it might be a possibility.

[peacheslatour]

When did Sundance decide to not have CI on Monday anymore? 😰

[Xeliou66]

23 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

When did Sundance decide to not have CI on Monday anymore? 😰

That’s weird that it’s not coming on there today - tomorrow they have 4 CI episodes in the morning. But next week the schedule is back to normal with CI on Monday and Tuesday it’s showing. Odd.

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Law & Order Criminal Intent Toronto greenlit.

This is...unexpected. Still, like @Xeliou66, I wonder if the episodes will be retreads of the American versions [as was the case with the French remake] or originals?

I hope this series will stream or something as I would somehow love to see how the Canadian version shakes out.

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

When did Sundance decide to not have CI on Monday anymore? 😰

This change seems to be a one off. The schedule returns to normal next week. Maybe honoring Memorial Day late by showing "Band of Brothers" [why CI was off]?

Either way, the normal Monday/Tuesday marathon on Sundance is still in effect, aside from this week.

[WendyCR72]

Another article about the Canadian CI spinoff on TV Line, including what looks like the title logo/design.

[WendyCR72]

This Deadline article about the upcoming offshoot had a paragraph that made me think that this will differ from Law & Order: UK and the French CI adaption, Paris Enquetes Criminelle, which adapted their episodes from old American episodes:

Quote

Based on the original series created by Dick Wolf for Universal Television, Law & Order Toronto: Criminal Intent will showcase original Canadian stories written and produced by, and starring, Canadians.

 

[wknt3]

On 6/6/2023 at 4:59 AM, WendyCR72 said:

This Deadline article about the upcoming offshoot had a paragraph that made me think that this will differ from Law & Order: UK and the French CI adaption, Paris Enquetes Criminelle, which adapted their episodes from old American episodes:

It makes sense as the culture and legal system are more similar than the other international versions. Although I would love to watch Detective Bobby Horton delivering dialogue like "Bad guys do what good guys dream aboot, eh?" or "Love On Ice" actually on ice with a hockey player killed by a hockey stick.

[WendyCR72]

A Variety article on the new spinoff says there is not yet anyone cast, but apparently, Spring 2024 is when this is supposed to begin.

There is also speculation [nothing concrete] of whether this Canadian branch will branch out and crossover with its American counterparts or if it will remain its own entity...

[Xeliou66]

Good season 4 marathon on today - I just watched Beast, with Gregory, Colleen and Colleen’s witch of a mom. This is an excellent episode, very good plot, complex but it all made sense from start to finish and had some good twists. I really liked the investigation by Goren/Eames in this one and how they got to the bottom of the case, and it was nice to see Deakins get a larger role. One of my favorites from season 4.

Next up is the extremely bleak No Exit, which may be the darkest episode in a season full of dark episodes. I’ve never been able to get into this episode as much, it’s so bleak, and the sight of the guy trying to get out of the car as the train approaches is horrific. I did like Eames telling the website guy he could go do his dance in hell, it’s not a bad episode but it is bleak and depressing. Season 4 was quite dark, you know it is when an episode like Beast is a more “normal” episode. 

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Good season 4 marathon on today - I just watched Beast, with Gregory, Colleen and Colleen’s witch of a mom. This is an excellent episode, very good plot, complex but it all made sense from start to finish and had some good twists. I really liked the investigation by Goren/Eames in this one and how they got to the bottom of the case, and it was nice to see Deakins get a larger role. One of my favorites from season 4.

Next up is the extremely bleak No Exit, which may be the darkest episode in a season full of dark episodes. I’ve never been able to get into this episode as much, it’s so bleak, and the sight of the guy trying to get out of the car as the train approaches is horrific. I did like Eames telling the website guy he could go do his dance in hell, it’s not a bad episode but it is bleak and depressing. Season 4 was quite dark, you know it is when an episode like Beast is a more “normal” episode. 

I agree. I'm watching Beast right now but when it's over, I going to switch over to Mothership or SVU.

[Xeliou66]

1 minute ago, peacheslatour said:

I agree. I'm watching Beast right now but when it's over, I going to switch over to Mothership or SVU.

Beast is a great episode, very twisted plot, it’s not surprising Colleen was so messed up given that her witch of a mom didn’t care at all about her while her sister could do no wrong. Gregory was a murderous smug piece of garbage but Colleen still loved him to the point of killing his wife out of jealousy. As Carver said in the episode, jealousy and desire weave tangled webs. 

[peacheslatour]

I'm watching The Unblinking Eye right now. With all this talk about a new Canadian CI, I don't think they'll ever recapture the lightning in a bottle that was Goren and Eames.

[WendyCR72]

43 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I'm watching The Unblinking Eye right now. With all this talk about a new Canadian CI, I don't think they'll ever recapture the lightning in a bottle that was Goren and Eames.

I really do wish, since Wolf is obviously still keen on the franchise with the new offshoot, that he would take VDO/KE up on their interest to revive the original CI.

Hell, have them cross over with their Canadian counterparts. Instant hype and ratings!

As I type, "Grow" from S5 with - UGH! - Nicole just ended. Poor Gwen. Sigh. And the last episode of the marathon, "Diamond Dogs", with pre-SVU Peter Scanavino, has just begun.

[peacheslatour]

2 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I really do wish, since Wolf is obviously still keen on the franchise with the new offshoot, that he would take VDO/KE up on their interest to revive the original CI.

Hell, have them cross over with their Canadian counterparts. Instant hype and ratings!

As I type, "Grow" from S5 with - UGH! - Nicole just ended. Poor Gwen. Sigh. And the last episode of the marathon, "Diamond Dogs", with pre-SVU Peter Scanavino, has just begun.

Oh, Logan and some instantly forgettable partner?

[WendyCR72]

43 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Oh, Logan and some instantly forgettable partner?

Eh, Carolyn Barek was okay. But it does seem like TPTB tried to make her a female Goren instead of giving her some defining traits of her own.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Eh, Carolyn Barek was okay. But it does seem like TPTB tried to make her a female Goren instead of giving her some defining traits of her own.

Falacci is my favorite Logan partner on CI, she was really good in her 5 episodes. Barek was okay but she didn’t have a lot of defining traits. Wheeler was dull as dirt.   
Goren/Eames were just terrific together, one of my top 3 partnerships in L&O history, along with Briscoe/Green and Briscoe/Logan. 

[peacheslatour]

5 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Falacci is my favorite Logan partner on CI, she was really good in her 5 episodes. Barek was okay but she didn’t have a lot of defining traits. Wheeler was dull as dirt.   
Goren/Eames were just terrific together, one of my top 3 partnerships in L&O history, along with Briscoe/Green and Briscoe/Logan. 

In the L&O universe, for me it goes -

Goren and Eames

Briscoe and Green

Munch and Fin

 

[Xeliou66]

44 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

In the L&O universe, for me it goes -

Goren and Eames

Briscoe and Green

Munch and Fin

 

Munch and Fin would come in at #4 for me. There have been so many great pairings in the L&O franchise.

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Goren/Eames were just terrific together, one of my top 3 partnerships in L&O history, along with Briscoe/Green and Briscoe/Logan. 

Yep, I definitely agree with this assessment!

[Spartan Girl]

12 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

As I type, "Grow" from S5 with - UGH! - Nicole just ended. Poor Gwen. Sigh

Her father was a piece of shit, even compared to the many other pieces of shit perps on this show. “I can always have more children.” FUCK YOU.

I did like Goren calling out Nicole’s bullshit that she’d never hurt Gwen because she was a good girl with a good heart, saying that her own daughter was a good girl and she’s still dead.

[Xeliou66]

6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Her father was a piece of shit, even compared to the many other pieces of shit perps on this show. “I can always have more children.” FUCK YOU.

I did like Goren calling out Nicole’s bullshit that she’d never hurt Gwen because she was a good girl with a good heart, saying that her own daughter was a good girl and she’s still dead.

Yeah Gwen’s father was a pure sociopathic shitstain. Grow had an interesting plot but the Nicole stuff ruined it for me. Nicole hung around for way too long, she should’ve been killed off in Great Barrier.

My all time favorite episode is on now, In The Wee Small Hours, so much to love about this 2 part episode.

[WendyCR72]

I know it was said in "Grow" that Gwen had a very high risk for cancer due to what her mom was given to her when pregnant, but it still made me sad in S7 when she was revisited in "Frame" to see it had become reality.

"Scared Crazy" is on now with Robbie and his shitstain "therapist".

I did love the mindfuck that G/E pulled on her; it was the least of what she deserved.

[peacheslatour]

OMG Hot Tub Harry is such a massive pile of crap. I've never been much of a fan of Branch but even I have to admit he's great in this one.

[WendyCR72]

51 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

OMG Hot Tub Harry is such a massive pile of crap. I've never been much of a fan of Branch but even I have to admit he's great in this one.

That whole family was a massive pile of crap. A waste of humanity, all three.

[Shadow Lass]

On 6/5/2023 at 5:33 PM, Xeliou66 said:

That’s weird that it’s not coming on there today - tomorrow they have 4 CI episodes in the morning. But next week the schedule is back to normal with CI on Monday and Tuesday it’s showing. Odd.

They had Band of Brothers on Tuesday June 6 to commemorate D-Day. Not sure why they threw a different show in on Monday.

[Xeliou66]

15 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

That whole family was a massive pile of crap. A waste of humanity, all three.

Yeah the Garrett family were despicable, all 3 of them. As I’ve said before the scene where Goren provokes “Hot Tub Harry” into confessing to raping the victim is a great scene, Goren did a great job there. I also love the scenes between Carver/Branch, really nice to see Branch make an appearance, and nice to see Carver in court. As I’ve said before, it’s my favorite CI episode, and there are many excellent ones.

[WendyCR72]

"Wrongful Life" just started [work, so I'm up!], and it just occurred to me that the victim dying in some water tower, and the other cop telling G/E about a complaint of bad smell in the tap water was eerily similar to how Elisa Lam died at the Hotel Cecil in California in 2013.

(That was such a tragic, yet creepy case. Look it up.)

Usually, the show borrowed from headlines, but the similarity of Lam's death and the victim in this episode had Lam dying eight years after this episode. Just a coincidence, but still rather chilling.

[peacheslatour]

11 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

"Wrongful Life" just started [work, so I'm up!], and it just occurred to me that the victim dying in some water tower, and the other cop telling G/E about a complaint of bad smell in the tap water was eerily similar to how Elisa Lam died at the Hotel Cecil in California in 2013.

(That was such a tragic, yet creepy case. Look it up.)

Usually, the show borrowed from headlines, but the similarity of Lam's death and the victim in this episode had Lam dying eight years after this episode. Just a coincidence, but still rather chilling.

Oh, I was obsessed with that case for a while! Did they ever figure out what happened there?

[TakomaSnark]

14 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Oh, I was obsessed with that case for a while! Did they ever figure out what happened there?

She was having a mental health crisis and most likely drowned accidentally (if it wasn't an intentional taking of her own life). Netflix made a really tawdry, exploitative series about it a couple years ago suggesting a 'supernatural' explanation.

[WendyCR72]

We have all talked some about the original filmed finale that was never used. I know I posted it before, either here or in the old forum, but if anyone missed it, I found it - in better quality - in a video on YT.

I clipped it [with a bit of other scenes before and after, as it is so short]. Credit to the video maker and, naturally, USA. It's odd that the unused footage seemed to be used to promote said finale...

If anyone here has never seen it and wants to (or just wants to see it again), here is a link, where I posted the blink and miss segment:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8pcqotcfz2a1ezx/GE Original Finale Bit.mp4?dl=0

[Xeliou66]

I just watched Blasters - Ross is such a douche, with his condescending attitude towards Logan/Wheeler after the shooting in the park with the mobsters, I really can’t stand him. The plot was okay, about the victim being involved with the mob selling bootlegged DVDs and all, it was kind of complex while also not being as in depth as most CI’s - more action scenes and less detective work, the main reason I’m not a fan of most season 6 CI episodes. Best part of this episode is Rodgers chewing out and firing the incompetent ME at the start who ruled the victim’s death not a murder, that was great.